Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[raider8169]

The large tree will be a good place to hang someone.

Oh and

Vote MonkeyMan576

This is not a time to "monkey" around. Get it his name has monkey in it...

[raider8169]

vote : rogue shenanigans

for choosing a path without asking anyone else. Maybe it is you who hangs from the lynching tree?

What would their be to discuss? At this point it would be random guess. Based on the choices I think he picked the safest path plus we have a goal to get to the tree!

[raider8169]

Hmm, guess I missed that.

@BSG - Fishing is alright. Get's boring after a couple hours. And no, that wasn't rolefishing - as you can see, I missed the part about the first person who posts picks the way. I would have preferred to talk about it, especially since I now know that RS did it intentionally. Is is scummy? I'm not sure. But I wish it had happened differently. There probably wouldn't have been too much to discuss, but at least one other opinion on the matter would have been nice.

What would you have picked them?

[raider8169]

I agree that Occam was lightly fishing and his defense was worthless, but reading the first quoted paragraph, that is a big fallacy there. You say that it is scummy not to have read properly?

I agree, I have read a few things as town or scum and mis read it and was lynched or killed for it. It happens but once pointed out it should be corrected.

[raider8169]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

[raider8169]

Call it what you want, speculating, set-up discussion or rolefishing. Either way, he was talking about a role which could be in this game. And what would town gain from talking about possible roles? It will only out said role if it's present in the game. This will only help scum.
But if anyone can show me how it's good for town to discuss a possible role, then I'm willing to drop this.

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

And I think that this answers post 26 as well.

Strange that you voted me after two players pointed something out, which you already mentioned. Why didn't you vote me sooner?

Role speculation could be good but there has to be solid information to go off from first. As right now we know nothing outside our own roles it is a bad idea. Maybe someone's role is affected but the first choice however there is no way we would know unless someone says something. I do not see that happening as that would make them a target and we do not know what is going to happen by the pick of what direction we will take. To much is unknown for role speculation to be a good idea at the moment.

[raider8169]

B. Your point about missing a rule being scummy is invalid as it's just as likely something town would do inadvertently (which is the case here) as it is something scum would do intentionally - in fact I would argue strongly that it would be a mistake someone of either alignment could make rather that something someone would do on purpose.

I agree with this as I have miss read a rule or something and acted differently then I would have had I read it correctly.

[raider8169]

I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice. Even though it is day one, surely we can find something better to talk about.

You said we like you had something better to talk about yet you didnt mention it in your post. The clearly random choice is causing disscussion which is good. Why try to stop it?

[raider8169]

unvote,vote:Lunar_Tick

We can lynch korts-scum tommorow. <3

It there more of a reason for your vote then post 66?

Any reason for thinking korts is scum?

[raider8169]

unvote,vote:Lunar_Tick

We can lynch korts-scum tommorow. <3

It there more of a reason for your vote then post 66?

Any reason for thinking korts is scum?

Yes... there is. Enough of a bad read to be a place to take off my random korts vote.

No reason to think Korts is scum, my little love heart was a way of showing I was joking...

Yeah...I guess I am just a little slow. I didnt even realize it was a heart until you said something.

As the random stage is over

Unvote

[raider8169]

Arrrgh. I hate the phrase "the random voting stage is over" so very much. Why do you think it is over, raider? What defines "random voting stage"? Where is the distinction between "random voting stage" and non-"random voting stage"? Please note that these questions have no bearing at all on the game itself and are purely posed simply to make people realize that such statements of a seperate hypothetical "random" stage are stupid.

Its just my way of making sure my "random" vote does not become a real vote and someone get lynched for it. Or atleast if it was to become a real vote I would make sure it is known and not just use the random vote as a resting place for my vote. I dislike it when people let their random vote ride on the same person for the entire day and at the end of the day no one really knows where that person stands.

The random stage is over as soon as the first real vote is place and the first intent to have someone lynched is known.

[raider8169]

I think it would be an obvious point to be bringing up the next day were the parked vote to stay on someone an entire day.

Though I disagree with this whole random voting thing being over with. I could very well make another vote with the sole intention of gaining information. This vote me not be who I think is who I want to be lynched, but it would be more along the line of a random vote that is used to start the game rolling. Then again, thats just my opinion.

Voting someone to get more information is not a bad thing and I do not consider that a random vote as you have intentions with them other then getting the game started.

You are right it would be obvious but I guess that is just something I do.

[raider8169]

There is an old japanese saying that goes something like this.

Even the greatest of Tsunamis all startt as just a simple ripple.

I really dont know or care what the exact wording is, for all I know it could be all your base are belongs to us. The long and short of it is this, that no matter the decision every one that is made will have a consequence tied into it. Maybe not an immediate one, but one down the road. It could be no different than looking at interactions on day one when it is day three. Seeing as how you know how some people are aligned at this point, you know how true or false some of these statements are. Maybe in the end it is a completely inconsequential decision. Only one way to find out. That is to play the game out. and see what happens.

The first choice does not have a huge impact as was said by the mod. The future choice should be made as a group as I think everyone agrees with. The ripple has not formed yet but it looks like you are trying to create it.

[raider8169]

False dilemma? Neither, actually, just trying to prevent a mislynch.

What makes you so sure the lynching LT would be a mislynch? What evidence is there that LT is town?

If there was proof this would be much easier. There is not going to be solid proof otherwise everyone would be voting or not voting the person depending on what proof is known.

Not removing your vote is not a bad thing it causes discussions and that is always good. I am a reserved voter as in I normaly do not vote unless I have reason too. However I have learned its the people that toss their votes around that get people talking and in the end figure out the best people to lynch.

[raider8169]

Freeko is innocent.

Take it from me... WINK WINK. I KNOW this for sure WINK WINK.

Unvote BSG, Vote Occam

I just see a lot of talking over talking over talking in this first day.

Yeah the cat is out of the bag how would you "know" this?

[raider8169]

Or we are 2 masons? Maybe now you understand why I was exploring another linked pair possibility. Because I have a link with another player in this game.

At least your little wagon got you some information.

This is not the information that should come out during the first day though. Not only were you forced to claim but you gave your mason partner away too. Of course your mason partner needs to confirm it.

[raider8169]

Raider, my mason partner gave ME away actually. We are actually what looks to be 3rd party masons. Our victory condition (at least mine) is simply to get to the town alive on day 6. I also have the town win condition of winning when all scum are found. It is unknown to me what PK's alignment is.

HUH?

unvote - vote: freeko

That makes no sense for a variety of reasons - your win condition is to be alive on day 6? Mine doesn't say anything about ME being alive on day 6 - nor does it specifically mention "day 6".

Freek and PK are either third-party or scum.

I have never heard of a mason role where one can confirm the other but the other can not confirm the one. I think I am missing something but not sure what. Maybe a reread over the weekend will help.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-7

freeko - 3 (MonkeyMan, Sipylus, Occam)
Lunar Tick - 2 (Rogue Shenanigans, Kiro)
Occam - 1 (Prom King)
Rogue Shenanigans - 1 (freeko)
MonkeyMan - 1 (BSG)

Not Voting - Lunar_Tick, Raider, Korts, Rhinox

With 12 left, 7 to lynch.

[raider8169]

Vote MM

Keeping a vote on a claimed Mason is not cool. Granted he has not been cleared yet but it is worth of an unvote.

I still wish to add that I dislike how scummy freeko is acting however he should not be today's lynch.

[raider8169]

(but I would like to here what MM has to say about that before anyone hammers)

Agreed, but good catch Rhinox!

[raider8169]

Nope, all I'm asking for is a chance to prove my role. I lied because I didn't want to get NK'd. If I full claim I'll probably get night killed. It's my fault I lied, it's the towns fault if they lynch me without giving me a chance to prove my role.

If you need a night to prove your claim then you have to tell us what it is you will do. If you are not saying what you will do because you will get nk'd then how will that change anything if you get lynched. If you really are town you would explain what you could do. Draw the nk and hope that someone can save you. Otherwise you will get lynched and you can only blame yourself.

[raider8169]

Not sure if it matters or not but I am willing to watch but I do not wish to step on someone else's toes if they know something I do not.

[raider8169]

I assumed it to be like a watcher:

Watcher

This would make sense but if the person that watches is scum I assume that means they will be able to kill someone. Never had to have someone stand watch at night so I am assumeing the normal scum type things are going to be changed.

While I do not wish to fish there needs to be enough time for someone that has information or an idea of how to handle this to speak up.

[raider8169]

From the mod's comments I'm assuming this has little bearing on the game; also, while we don't know what this does, we can't decide on who to choose.

Let's play it Rogue Shenanigans style.

Watch

We could have taken it to a vote or something.

[raider8169]

@Korts, did you have any choices to make at night?

[raider8169]

@Korts, did you have any choices to make at night?

Regarding the watch, no.

So what was the point then? There has to be something...right?

[raider8169]

I really dont care about what you have to say korts. Yuor death will tell me everything I need to know.

I was thinking of going this route but it only hurts town. How will rushing into his lynch help us more then hurt us?

[raider8169]

The reason you vote for PK is that I cannot confirm PK while PK can confirm me. I also got NOTHING from PK in the night discussion, which worries me slightly. Either he is going to be replaced, or he is hiding something from me.

So my scumdar goes something like this. I will gain information by the lynching of RS,Korts, or PK. Obviously maybe the replacement for RS could offer up something, but until then... Maybe I am way off but those are the ones that stick out to me as doing something that I do not particularly see as being a town player.

I dont like this, what information would "you" get that would make their lynches worth it? This seems more like a case just to lynch someone instead of lynching scum. What did they do that you do not see a town player doing?

[raider8169]

IF player X is town aligned, then I am obviously wrong. THEN I admit my mistake and move along with the game.

You really think other people would let you move along with the game? Why can we not pick the most townie like person to watch the following night and they can confirm that Korts was telling the truth or lieing.

[raider8169]

Korts, if you read the flavor of his lynching, It only required 6 of us (or one less than normal) to lynch him. At least that is what it looked like to me. It just seems that you are doing nothing but making decisions in this game that are totally one sided. You are thinking about yourself and not the good of the "town" as a whole, I think.

So explain how lynching him would be the best thing for town to do? He did the same thing RS did it seems.

[raider8169]

I do have a theory, but it involves someone I know 100% is town to watch tonight. Since I'm the only player I know 100% is town, that means I would have to watch tonight. I'll talk more about my theory tomorrow, if I watch and have information that can confirm or disprove my theory.

In the meantime, lets actually try to find some scum, eh? Going to go analyze some players induvidually, PbPa style.

Are you asking everyone to just let you watch tonight and test out your theory?

[raider8169]

I have half a mind to just lynch freeko for all the misinterpretations and bullshit. Also why do I get the feeling that only three or four of us are talking? There should be ten of us still alive and pointing fingers for fuckssake.

and... QFT. Well, minus the lynching freeko part. I don't think freeko is scum, I just think he's completely off track with his scum hunting. If he were scum, with a faked mason claim, I would expect him to start lurking to hide behind his facade of innocence... oh hey, kinda like what Prom King is doing

Prom King has yet to respond to the claimed mason part if I am not mistaken.

[raider8169]

Did you even pay attention to day 1 at all? Or did you just jump in and not bother to ready any of it?

Anyways. My speculation is that PK is trying to hide something from me. He did not participate in the discussion at all. All he really did was force me into tipping my hand and making me need to claim my role all the more relevant to my survival. The problem always has been that I cannot confirm him, but he can confurm me. Then I recall saying that Occam can clear us with an ability he has, and shockingly he is the one who goes bye-bye during the night phase (presumably NK'd?) though its not official yet it seems as his role has not been revealed. So I am now quite pissed off because 2 of the people who would be able to "help" me are gone from the game in one way or another and the other has not bothered to do anything for about 10 days, though PK is still supposedly in the game.

You said Occam can clear you? I dont recall reading that. How do you know that he could clear you?

[raider8169]

PK is scum, freeko is town. My feelings, Its possible, but unlikely. Here's why: PK voluntarily confirmed freeko. It wouldn't make sense for scum-PK to do that. Instead, PK could have hoped freeko was lynched, and shown up as mason. Then later in the game, if/when PK was found suspicious, he could have claimed to be freeko's mason partner, and there would have been no counter claim.

(This is a rushed post, I have to leave in 4 minutes for class)
I disagree with this a little. I think it would more advantageous for PK to claim while freeko is still alive so that freeko CAN confirm him. He probably didn't count on people questioning his alignment and that is why he claimed so early. I would have to go back and read but it was PK that claimed, not freeko. Plus, freeko has clearly stated that he doesn't know PK's alignment and PK seems to be avoiding the question. The way I look at it, PK is unconfirmed. Freeko is unconfirmed as well but I would tend to believe him more than PK because he brought up the alignment question. I say we treat them as unconfirmed. If they are the best to lynch they are the best to lynch. I would say a PK death that flips mason confirms freeko's alignment but I am not sure I would say the same the opposite way.

(Sorry if this makes no sense, if it is unclear I will clarify tonight when I get home)

Out of all the opitions I think this one makes the most sense to me. The next being both of them town. Why else could one confirm the other and not get it in return. Maybe he was hoping that freeko would confirm him anyways even if it wasnt in his PM. For that matter if is was in one person PM and not the others that should mean something. Reguardless PK needs to post.

[raider8169]

So you're saying that just because PK isn't confirmed, that automatically makes him scum, because otherwise the role doesn't make sense? Isn't that kinda a form of trying to outguess the mod? If thats the case, why would PK have bothered to confirm freeko, unless he didn't know freeko couldn't confirm him. But if thats the case, how does freeko know PK can confirm him?

I would expect the role PMs to be consistent, like:

PK, you are scum/town. you are mason with freeko, and you know freeko's allignment, but he doesn't know yours; freeko, you are town, and a mason with PK, and you don't know PK's allignment, but he knows yours

-or-

PK, you are scum/town. you are mason with freeko, and you know freeko's allignment; freeko, you are town, and a mason with PK, and you don't know PK's allignment.

Of course, I guess that means I'm sorta playing the outguessing the mod game as well...

By no means am I saying his is scum. It just made the most sense to be as why else could they not confirm each other. PK needs to post and help this make sense. He was replaced out of his other game so its very possible he has left the site.

The vote is pointless for now but it should help when he is replaced.

@freeko, do you have anything that can help this make more sense?

[raider8169]

Which is exactly why I think Korts is hiding something.

Probable WIFOM alert.

If Occam is dead, we would/should know about that minor detail. If he is alive, then wtf happened to the NK?

With these wild mishmashing of roles, it would not suprise me to see a Commuter/X asa possibility fir Occam. That is speculating on the small chance that he may still be alive in the game.

Korts could be hiding something, only he really knows. However its just not worth lynching him over to find out if he was telling the truth. The person who watches, tonight if there is a watch, might have a choice and Korts might not of. WIFOM, I guess but I am more interested in figuring out what PK has to say.

What are your feelings towards PK?

[raider8169]

What are your feelings towards PK?

Who is that directed towards? I assume me since you had quoted me earlier. If so, then here is my answer. I want him replaced. hopefully his replace metn could do.. SOMETHING in the game where PK did nothing in our discussion thread in the last game night. Along with obviously being absent for this game day as well. As an extension of this, I would not entirely mind him getting lynched, as I cannot cofirm his alignment. The way the pm I have is worded is so that I am to be suspicious of his alignment right from the start. Though I think it best that we waited for a replacement to shed some light on the situation. I know its a slight contradiction, I really woudl like more information, and I get it either way.

Yes it was directed towards me, and thank you.

Im leaning the same way. PK has not been helpful. I would much rather get a replacement too. I dont like the idea of basis a lynch of someone who could have information helpful to town but yet he has been useless otherwise.

[raider8169]

For the sake of talking...I want to reiterate that I am very suspicious of Prom King and that I think Occam is not gone from the game yet due to the fact that his role was not revealed.

(Sorry I don't have much else to say, I really want to hear from PK or PK's replacement more than anything)

Happy Birthday Korts!

Yeah, I am on the same page. I am not positive that Occam is not gone from the game but it sort of make sense.

[raider8169]

Mod: I don't know what method you use for choosing who will be replaced first but it will be most benefical to the game if Prom King is replaced first

QFT

[raider8169]

I would rather no one get mod killed as that takes away from the spirit of the game.

[raider8169]

I hate being in this position, seems like we either wait for replacements that may or may not happen or try and press on with the game. Pressing on would mean lynching PK as that seems to be the only way to get answers.

[raider8169]

And I don't want to abandon this game. It has some interesting dynamics to it and I would hate for Jebus to have wasted it.

QFT

I am loving the idea of picking our path and that someone watches at night. This seems to be a great idea for a game so not matter what I atleast want to see it played out.

I have no problem waiting for a replacement, but at some point the game will need to move forward.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-4

Prom King - 4 (BSG, Juls, Rhinox, Korts)
Korts - 1 (freeko)

Not Voting - 5 (Megaflareon, Prom King, Lunar_Tick, Sipylus, Raider)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Prom King, Lunar Tick, and Sipylus, in that order. Megaflareon has been prodded.

Deadline is in 18 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[raider8169]

Interesting, the story is changing alot, I think we do not have the whole story but atleast it is starting to make sense. Why would PK confirm him and then it not be true? Did PK know something you did not or was he just trying to get himself lynched?

[raider8169]

Freeko why the sudden change in the way you are posting? I got the impression you were laid back before the replacement and now you are teaming up with VI and being very aggressive. Is anyone else noticeing this?

[raider8169]

From as far as I've gotten in my reread, I'm getting suspicious of raider for hanging out on the periphery of the game and generally being dispensable. So his cameo appearance in this argument is noted.

My cameo appearance? I guess you can see it like that. I do not know where I stand in this. I think either Vi or freeko is scum. I do not feel there is enough to warent a lynch either way. I have a guess as to what will be claimed as my role hints something to that effect but not sure if it is referenceing you or someone else or if it means nothing at all. Not sure if I should say it as it may hurt the person I just called out or it might give someone an idea.

One thing that bothers me is that you say freeko can claim your name as well as his. Are you saying that both or your roles are the same name or that you guys said your role names in the quick link?

[raider8169]

raider: We were told what kind of person our companion was in our Role PMs. I could answer my own question just as easily, but I'm not going to.

Who ARE you suspicious of, raider? (Sorry if you said this earlier, but again, I'm not done with my reread.)

I was suspicious of PK and you however it moved to freeko during the aurgument.

Can you confirm the claim name that freeko just said?

This changes alot so I am not sure anymore. It was not what I was expecting and had it been so would I could have explained better to everyone but without calling out a possible role I have nothing else.

Maybe a reread will help but I do not have time for that right now.

[raider8169]

@Raider: I've been trying to get a read on you all game... I get the feeling you play as sort of an active lurker... would you say that is an accurate description of your playstyle, and do you think that is a legitimate strategy to use as town?

I dont try to be an active lurker but I do come across like that. So I guess it could be considered an accurate description but I try to be more then that. I guess you need to play a few games with me to see that. My problem is that I miss the little things other people pick up on. Some people have a knack for it, I am not one of those people. As far as a legitimate strategy I would have to say sure, I have yet to be replaced in any game I have been in. One thing that gets me is when someone has an argument I stay out of it until I decide which side I think it right.

Hope that explains it.

[raider8169]

Ok someone explain the korts bandwagon. I dont recall Korts doing anything that deserved to be lynched. As Juls said a reread on Korts might do it.

But, you've only placed 2 votes the entire game, both on the same person: your random on monkeyman, and then the vote on the monkeyman wagon. Its seems to me like you're not following your own advice - you say the way to get people talking and figure out the best player to lynch is to throw your vote around, but you haven't done that at all. Should I infer, then, that you're intentionally playing in a way to not generate discussion to figure out the best player to lynch?

I did say the best way to start conversation is to toss your votes around. However that is not how I like to play. I do not concidered it pro-town or anti-town as that is just how I play. I have been lynched for it as town and scum but that is just how I like to play. I like to think I become more useful as the days goes on as I have bandwagons to look into and more general information on the other players. We are on day 2 and you have placed 8 votes. To me that says you are just trying to lynch anyone. Is 8 votes excessive or are you just not sure who should be lynched? If I vote someone I fully intend to see that person lynched or gain some valuable information from it. It sounds like you are trying to twist my playstyle around to sound like my play is always scummy however I play based on the information I have. Alot of new information has come about in the last couple of days. We do not need to rush things.

Pretty much sounds like scum sitting back to choose the popular side. Noted.

The popular side most likely also reflects the side of the person who is telling the truth or has more things to back up their side of the aurgument. Look at the bandwagon on Korts, 3 posts in a row, three votes. OMG everyone outside of the first vote is taking the popular side so they must be scum. Ignoring the fact that people take different amounts of time to pick a side. Right now I am sitting on the fence, is there a problem with not always wanting to jump on someone and lynch them before enough information is gathered to make an educated vote?

Right now I think either Freeko or Vi are scum. Im sure the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person. I do not know which one and I have been back and forth between the two alot.

[raider8169]

RTFP

Thanks, I read that before but I didnt think it was enough for a vote. Will look more into it.

This warrants an

OMGUS: raider

And I'm not talking about a vote.

Not only are you saying one of us HAS to be scum, but you're going so far as to fabricate flavor to support it.
(This is similar to what Juls is doing, yes.)

You are right, the flavor is nothing but a guess if I were to be true. It means nothing and right now I have nothing to back up what I think. I guess its one of those I got my eye on you things but that also goes for everyone as anyone could be the scum.

One thing I hate with so many replacements is that we are losing any focus on them because they are not posting and scum can slip right by. Granted they could also be town, more less venting is all.

[raider8169]

Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.

[raider8169]

Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.

hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.

Its not so much rolefishing as I dont care what abilities he has just that he is a sheep, but you are right someone could be trying to kill the sheep but unless that is in someones win condition but I do not think that to be the case. I would have to role claim to explain more and not sure if people wish for me to do that. It would explain why I have more information day 2 then I did day one.

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

[raider8169]

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

I never really said you only take the popular side...

But since we've already had the conversation about your playstyle, you taking korts side now can be seen as you trying to WIFOM us into thinking you're town because you're not taking the popular side, so... Don't know if you were intending to shoot down my meta observation by saying that just now, or if it was more of a "by the way..." type comment to just take a jab at me.

I did not mean it as a jab or anything I was just pointing out. You are right it could WIFOM. Its just that I have more of a reason to take Korts side, plus if I was a wolf wouldnt it be easier to join the bandwagon and lynch him or something?

[raider8169]

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

That was me.

I'm going to

unvote

for now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.

The events of the past two days have left me more confused now than ever. What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.

I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.

raider 439 wrote:
I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.

Why?
(Also, it occurs to me that you people set a sheep up to watch camp last night.)

It seemed to fit the picture I was expecting regarding someone having a sheep role. I knew that Korts said something sheep like before but I took that originally as he was trying to draw out the sheep.

Just think though, the sheep wanted to stay up and watch, and yet can talk too...

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-8

Korts - 1 (freeko)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)
Freeko - 1 (BSG)
Juls - 1 (Vi)

Not Voting - 6 (Megaflareon, Lunar_Tick, Sipylus, Raider, Rhinox, Juls)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Lunar Tick, Sipylus, and Megaflareon, in that order.

Deadline is in 15 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[raider8169]

Sheep aren't really observant people.

Last I knew they weren't people either.

[raider8169]

I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.

And this is possible how?

@Korts: here is a shocker, who did I want lynched at the beginning of this day? Oh, was that you? I think it was. Dont even cry about me being on your bandwagon. I want you lynched bottom line. Now with this horsecrap about you being a sheep. WHY would you take the night watch if you were a sheep? And to think that you also ninja'd that watch right in the middle of the discussion of who would be the best candidate for it. At this point I am also 100% sure you are lying about something.

I can fullclaim if the majority of town wants me to, but I wouldn't want to, yet.

Get right on that. I fail to see wht the hell a sheep is in this game. If anything is crying out horsecrap, it is this weakass sheep claim. At the least explain to us exactly what a sheep is. And why the hell you chose to be the watch at night KNOWING you are a sheep.

I know there is a sheep in this game other then Jebus who died in the opening sceene. If no one else claims sheep then Korts is confirmed sheep. Confirming he is a sheep though does not make him any less town or scum. However, I believe the sheep role to be town. I can not confirm it, unfortunatly.

Also, knowing he is a sheep would not matter unless he has a post restriction or something. I would not think that would make a difference watching but by saying it would or would not, would just be outguessing the mod.

[raider8169]

crap... missed the last page...

I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.

So just to confirm, your role proves the existance of just one other sheep, and not more? Seems odd to me, but I guess its possible.

Without quoting It said 2. One of which was killed off in the opening sceene, for those that dont remember it was revealed as a sheep. So yes, there should be one other sheep.

[raider8169]

So Juls, Raider and Korts, could you please state if your role name is mentioned in your PM or not?

I dont have a name per say more of a description, not sure if that makes sense or not. I guess it could be a name but it could fall under either category.

Is there nothing else you can say regarding post 439, Raider?

I knew that Korts said something sheep like before...

What was it?

Not sure what else you would like me to say, is there something you would like me to answer about?

I dont recall where Korts said it before but its in their somewhere.

@Raider
If Korts confirmed claim doesn't make him less town/scum, then why did you confirm a sheep claim?
I also don't understand the part of a post restriction mentioned in post 455

I confirmed his sheep claim because I know there is another sheep. I also think the role is town based. I think this would be stupid to keep to myself giving I could possibly save a town role(as I said I think he is town).

The post restriction was more of a joke because the sheep was keeping watch and maybe that was why he was not able to have any options at night or maybe there just was none. I am thinking there was no night choices based on that because Korts seems to be able to post at will.

I don't like quote wars...

QFT

@Freeko

Not sure how I can enlighten you anymore then I already have. There is another sheep role. I am 100% positive on that. Korts claimed sheep with no counterclaim so I have no reason to not believe his claim. I also think the sheep role is town and thought that as of the start of day 2.

[raider8169]

@Vi

Rhinox has said some things that has made me wonder if he is just trying to get anyone lynched. TBH I really wish we had those replacements in. They hold alot of information that could really push the game in the right direction.

[raider8169]

I want everyone to think very carefully and ask themselves this question: Did my vote on Korts really appear to be made with the intention of lynching korts? Vi, look at my votes in mafia 87, raider, you have that newbie game that just finished to look at, juls, do you still have the link to that game we were both in that you replaced out of? Everyone else, I've already linked Meerkat manor mafia. You guys can pretty much look at every vote I've ever made... When I'm ready to lynch someone, I make my intentions known.

This is part of why I am looking towards you as possible scum. I have said my case as to why I think Kort is town and all the people that have not acted apon it are the people I am looking towards as possible scum. I can understand why people are not taking what I am saying as fact because I am sure I do not seem like the most townie person to them and that Korts does not either. Also yes your vote did seem to made with the intention of lynching korts.

Not sure how I can enlighten you anymore then I already have. There is

another

sheep role. I am 100% positive on that. Korts claimed sheep with no counterclaim so I have no reason to not believe his claim. I also think the sheep role is town and thought that as of the start of day 2.

Very interesting comment here... Raider, feel like commenting on your use of the word 'another' here?

Jebus, the night 0 kill was a sheep, that is the other sheep role. Does that answer your question?

Rhinox has said some things that has made me wonder if he is just trying to get anyone lynched. TBH I really wish we had those replacements in. They hold alot of information that could really push the game in the right direction.

What have I said?

I sort of went into this above but its more your stance and things to reflect your opinion of lynching korts.

Also, what makes you think the replacements have roles that could give us any information we don't already have?

They could counter claim as say they sheep. Meaning that either Korts of the replacement lied.

[raider8169]

Jebus, the night 0 kill was a sheep, that is the other sheep role. Does that answer your question?

Well, Jebus is the mod. I dont really think the mod had a role in this game.

I dont think that matters has the dead role was still revealed as a sheep.

[raider8169]

I pre-emptivly give thanks/you're welcomes, to your inevitable welcomes and thanks.

Will do my best to settle down quickly.

Welcome, enjoy the read.

[raider8169]

I did think that the quick growth of the wagon was odd... but it tells me some things... either most of the town is hungry for blood, there really is some basis for the wagon, or there are scum on the wagon

Ymm.. there is great basis for the wagon. I want korts head on a noose yesterday, that is no suprise to anyone. And if there was scum on the wagon he woulda been outta here already. Look very closely at the only person who was active and did not vote for him.

I assume you mean me? Only I have information that says he should be a townie. Do you have something more solid than that?

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-10

Korts - 1 (freeko)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)
Freeko - 1 (BSG)
Juls - 1 (Vi)

Not Voting - 6 (Megaflareon, Lunar_Tick, TonyMontana, Raider, Rhinox, Juls)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Lunar Tick and Megaflareon, in that order.

Deadline is in 12 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[raider8169]

Only I have information that says he should be a townie.

Do tell. Its only polite to share right?

Have you even been reading along, freeko?

Korts claimed sheep. Raider can confirm the presence of 1 single sheep, but not more. Raider believes the sheep role to be town.

This is true.

Freeko he brings up a good point, have you been reading or are you just skimming?

[raider8169]

At least one of you is probably lying. Another one of you is lying and protecting your scumbuddy. Last one of you is scum, and I want to lynch you. I will leave it to you to figure it out all by yourseves. If you cannot then I will enlighten you.

Dont worry raider.. after korts, you are next.

What makes you think one of us is lying? This sounds an awful lot like what I am thinking about VI and you. I think one of you two are lying only I have nothing to back that up. Do you have something to back what you are saying up? Im not willing to try and lynch both of you based on nothing in hopes that I am right and one of you are scum. Seems like you are willing too.

I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.

It seemed to fit the picture I was expecting regarding someone having a sheep role. I knew that Korts said something sheep like before but I took that originally as he was trying to draw out the sheep.

How?

I knew there was a sheep role and another role that is attached to it somehow. The attached part is just something I was speculating and I was thinking that is you could confirm that freeko was the sheep and you were the attached role whatever that is. It was just the picture I had in my head and it seemed to fit. I was wrong but did not want to out another role or give scum a safeclaim or something like that. Does this answer your question?

[raider8169]

Without quoting It said 2. One of which was killed off in the opening sceene, for those that dont remember it was revealed as a sheep. So yes, there should be one other sheep.

This makes me doubt your claim a little. I doubt that the opening flavor kill has anything to do with your role - if it does, than this is a new level of bastard moddery I haven't seen before... I think more likely that if you know for sure there are 2 sheep, and korts is one, than one of the inactives is probably the other. Do you think that is a more likely scenario than "the second sheep referenced in your role was probably the mod"?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would be alot faster at reading up, if you didn't fill up every page to the rim.

Me + Vi = Wall-building Machine! We can put china to shame

Freaken wall of quotes!!! I dont think I have ever been in a game where they have been so many of them!!!

Anyways, I know that their are 2 sheep. I know that one of the two sheeps is dead and was named Jebus. You can blame the mod for that one but I dont think it is going to do you any good.

[raider8169]

This sounds an awful lot like what I am thinking about VI and you

Don't you learn? You better duck.

Is it because I use a capitial "I" or something. I have been daykilled a few times now and I if that is not the reason I am confused.

[raider8169]

Is it because I use a capitial "I" or something. I have been daykilled a few times now and I if that is not the reason I am confused.

Yep.

For the record, VI stands for Village Idiot.

Now die.

Daykill: raider8169

Actual post to come once I deal with the games that I've been neglecting.

Ahh, I understand. That doesnt explain why you dont like it capitialized.

Also, according to the link you are scum...

[raider8169]

Also, according to the link you are scum...

Read through the edits to that page, and apparently I could be DrippingGoofball too.

Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing...

[/quote]

I saw that, interesting. Of course as anyone can edit it, it doesnt mean as much.

[raider8169]

Can we lynch korts now so I can die happy?

Are you just ignoring what I have been saying or do you just not believe me?

[raider8169]

Both.

Vote freeko

That is not anybit helpful to town. You just want Korts lynched for the sake of a lynch then. Everyone else on the bandwagon atleast concidered what I have said and then made up their mind, even if it was agianst the information I had. I would much rather you be todays lynch.

[raider8169]

While I agree freeko is acting very anti-town, I must concede that Vi's "confirmation" of freeko is every bit as, if not even more, credible as yours of korts.

unvote

I agree, only niether has been confirmed as town. I have a good idea that the sheep is town so I like to think my information is a little more confirmed however I am sure I am the only one that believes that.

[raider8169]

I have a good idea that the sheep is town so I like to think my information is a little more confirmed however I am sure I am the only one that believes that.

Well it certainly doesn't help me, when I don't know what your reasons for believing so are. AFAIK, there could be black sheeps, so to speak.

I have tried to explain it a bunch of times already so I ask that you read some of my posts before I attempt to repeat it, that and I dont have the time right now. If you have read them then ignore this.

[raider8169]

@Raider: How would your confirmation of korts being a sheep change if we assumed Occam was a sheep? I'm thinking back to this comment:

I would have picked the cliff myself.

I picture sheep walking on cliffsides.

It doesn't make much of a difference in the long run because we had no info to base our choice on anyways. Seems like most people would rather have had the tree based on post-choice comments - it's just a principle thing, that's all.

This seems to imply that Occam's role is/was also a sheep - otherwise why would he picture sheep walking on cliffsides? Can Korts and Occam (and the mod) all be sheep and your role still make sense?

My role would make sense either way however the information would not. There are only 2 sheep. If Occam was one of them then Korts is not and then Korts would have lied, and therefor be scum. Occam I got the impression was something of a sheepherder. It seems Occam was dropping hints to find the sheep but not the sheep.

Just for the records, I am not willing to vote Korts unless someone counter claims sheep. At this point the only people who could do that are the replacements and before anyone is lynched I would like to hear from them/have them replaced.

[raider8169]

Is there anyway you could say why you know there's only 2 sheep in the game, or is that too much to ask?
Cause I have my doubts.. and depending on your reasons, I have my doubts of Jebus counting towards those 2.

Mod, I will be away until after the weekend.

I know there are or atleast was 2 of them not sure which anymore but I still think there is one left. I really cant explain with out claiming myself. I can understand everyone's doubts as I can not confirm anything and say it is set in stone. I wish I could though.

[raider8169]

@Freeko,

I do not understand you in this game. I cant quite place it but you are just latching out at half the people in this game. Why do you want me lynched? Might make things a little easier to understand once I claim but before we get to that point can I have the reasons why you are voting me?

[raider8169]

Wall of quote here I come...

Thats about what I expected from you.

Ok someone explain the korts bandwagon. I dont recall Korts doing anything that deserved to be lynched.

Yup. Steeeeerike 1. Oh here is the next pitch. It lloks like it might have caught the corner.

Explain why there is anything wrong with not understanding the case on someone and further more I didnt see why any of it was scummy enough for a lynch. A vote sure but not by me.

Im sure the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person.

Yep, strike 2 on the outside corner. Already an 0-2 count, guess its time to get a little defensive. Gotta expand the zone and make sure you dont strike out now. Anyways, seems the pitcher took his sign and here is the windup. The pitch...

So I am guessing flavor, I enjoy doing that as this is a well thought out game. Whats wrong with that? I am not guessing your role just explaining how it is possible that you could be scum while Vi could be town or vice virsa, explain how there is anything wrong with this.

I would have to role claim to explain more and not sure if people wish for me to do that. It would explain why I have more information day 2 then I did day one.

Hmm, fouled that one off. Seems the coach is coming out to talk things over with the pitcher. Time for a commercial break. Dont really want to claim scum now do you?

Frist off, who would ever claim scum? Second, you have been the only one repeatedly trying to get more information from everyone else. I am not able to talk with anyone else, but wait you can. Is Vi "coaching" you on this one?

I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.

It seemed to fit the picture I was expecting regarding someone having a sheep role. I knew that Korts said something sheep like before but I took that originally as he was trying to draw out the sheep.

Just think though, the sheep wanted to stay up and watch, and yet can talk too...

Nevermind that what you say is that you confirm korts sheep claim, but then you try to backstab him and undermine him here. I never really paid too much attention to that before. Its amazing what you get to see during the breaks in the action and the cameras are just rolling on random stuff. Thats the one that I read over and over again and try to figure out exactly where was this trying to go.

You dont read well do you? I have confirmed there is a sheep role and that Korts is the only one to claim sheep. With no more replacements needed and once they get spun up then then we will be able to confirm he is the sheep role. The last comment was just something I thought funny, a sheep that can talk and wanted to stay up and watch over everything. Have you ever heard of a sheep doing that? I didnt think so, again I thought it was funny.

Also the second quote is out of context. Reread the posts around it and you will find that I was referring to you.

I know there is a sheep in this game other then Jebus who died in the opening sceene. If no one else claims sheep then Korts is confirmed sheep. Confirming he is a sheep though does not make him any less town or scum. However, I believe the sheep role to be town. I can not confirm it, unfortunatly.

Without quoting It said 2. One of which was killed off in the opening sceene, for those that dont remember it was revealed as a sheep. So yes, there should be one other sheep.

Again more circle jerking.

If you would have stopped asking the same stuff again and again, I wouldnt have to keep repeating myself. Unless you mean something else. Which I would never know as your posts now include a random quote and crappy commentary.

I confirmed his sheep claim because I know there is another sheep. I also think the role is town based. I think this would be stupid to keep to myself giving I could possibly save a town role(as I said I think he is town).

Ummm.. ok. Right. Time to step out of the batters box for a econd, gott think over wahts coming , the count is 0-2 still.

Do you have any point to these comments? Dont you find it odd how I was asked to repeat myself how many times?

Rhinox has said some things that has made me wonder if he is just trying to get anyone lynched. TBH I really wish we had those replacements in. They hold alot of information that could really push the game in the right direction.

Coincidence that you now throw suspicion on Rhinox, who is the same person Korts has defaulted to voting on when he hasnt had a vote on me? Seems you are back in the batters box waiting for the pitcher to take a sign.

Oh noes! I agree with someone I think it town. The world is ending.

Jebus, the night 0 kill was a sheep, that is the other sheep role.

They could counter claim as say they sheep. Meaning that either Korts of the replacement lied.

They refers to the 3 people who are at the time not in the game yet. Seems something doesnt add up here now does it. Well lets see how much more drivel we can find...

What doesnt add up, atleast try and be helpful.

Only I have information that says he should be a townie.

I knew there was a sheep role and another role that is attached to it somehow.

Ok, so korts is a sheep and here now you say someone is attached to it somehow. I think they just cut to a commercial break for th favorite soap opera, as the lie turns. Oh wait maybe that was jsut the announcers. Looks like they just keep on rolling now that teh snowball started tumbling down the hill.

In other words you dont know how I get my information and you wish to find out, lynching me in the process. Typical scum tactic.

Anyways, I know that their are 2 sheep. I know that one of the two sheeps is dead and was named Jebus. You can blame the mod for that one but I dont think it is going to do you any good.

Before it was one sheep, then 2, then 1 then 2 then 1, and now 2 again... Come on now. And then the mod steps in with this little nugget that bashes apart your entire smoke and mirros act up to that point.

When did I say there was ever only one sheep?

Mod-reminder: NPC's are never more than flavor.

GG raider. You are obviously lying. Oh look that fastball just got blown right by you for strike 3 now didnt it.

Name something about this game that is not just flavor? You role perhaps? I have not lied, and everything I have said it still true. The point of what he said is that the role was flavor and it still fits into everything I have said.

Seriously you need to slow down when you read, if you are even reading everything. You seem slow to understand and instead of asking questions to help you understand you just ask the same thing waiting for a word or two to change and then jump on someone for that. You are being completely anti-town and I think everyone in this game sees that. Furthermore you have scum written all over you and Vi is the only reason you have not been lynched by now.

[raider8169]

Vi, please use the enter key at some point Makes it harder to find all the ends of the quotes and what I can remove and whatnot.

Actually, I had forgotten about this quote. And it strikes me how when someone else claims merchants, you immediately suggest that one is guaranteed scum. But when it comes to Korts, you suggest that "you think" he is Town based on your own guessing. 'Pretty one-sided on the flavor-guessing, ne? For me to do the same as you did, I would have to suggest that Shepherd (which is what I'm assuming you are) is the same as a Godfather.
Moreover, I said WHY I believe freeko is Town. You haven't actually produced a paraphrase that would suggest why you think Korts is Town.

Based on PK and Freeko's play I think one to be scum. I never said they must be scum and if that is how I can across it was not how I meant it. The one sided flavor guessing works the same for you, you read first hand what Freeko said in the other forum and I only have what you say. Same goes for how I think Korts is town. I am not a shepherd, I think that was Occam. My role is not tied to Korts in anyway. I thought I said all the before but I dont remember.

I never paraphrased why I think Korts is town? I thought I already did. Either way, its all based on interpretation. Someone is trying to make sure the sheep get to the next town for who knows what reason. Its a make sure they get there type thing and not a everyone must be dead type thing. That is why I think the sheep is town.

Bottom line: Outguessing the setup fails (or it should in any game that's competently made). You are scummy for trying to do so for purposes of an accusation.

Outguessing the setup is fun however should never be taken as fact or a reason to vote someone. Unvote sure, vote no. My vote on freeko is not based on the I think the setup would have one of you two scum.

I am not able to talk with anyone else, but wait you can. Is Vi "coaching" you on this one?

No dice. No daytalk. And while this line of commentary/frothing accusation is amusing, I trust you've seen that I don't view this sort of behavior as a Good Idea, strategically speaking. Your accusation is bad, and you should feel bad for making it.

The idea was just that freeko said I was being coached and I was pointing out the same thing could be said about you coaching him.

Furthermore you have scum written all over you and Vi is the only reason you have not been lynched by now.

And why aren't you after me?

Why would I be all over you for defending someone? As town that is your job to defend who you think it town and lynch who you think is scum. You have not been making threats or anything like that so I have no reason other then what PK said in the past to think you to be scum. I did at one point think you were but now you do not stick out so much as scum.

[raider8169]

If you guys are gonna speculate, at least do it right. Don't just shout something out without any support for it whatsoever, and without taking into account the information we actually know thats not speculation.

You are very right, my speculation is based on solid information. I would like to hear what the replacements have to say but after that I think it might be best for me to claim and then everything might make sense. I am getting sick of this going no where and atleast want to move on.

[raider8169]

Why not just do it now? Afraid someone will shred your fakeclaim since you wont know what everyone is yet?

No because I was waiting for you to say just that.

I was sort of hoping you would stop trying to push everyone to claim as that is a scum trait and that might show that I am wrong about you being scum. It would seem that I am right.

However, I would like everyone's opinion on this as it is normaly not a good idea for everyone to role claim but we are almost at that point.

[raider8169]

Well, you and korts are the ones I have pegged. Both of you have said that you will claim .. korts ages ago.

Either way its a valid question. If you are going to claim anyway, whats the problem with doing it now?

Only reason that comes to mind is you want to get a feel for your fakeclaim before you make it.

How about the idea that maybe someone doesnt want me to claim for who knows what reason. Or how about everyone else thinks its a bad idea for me to claim seeing that I am not a L-1. Maybe its not a good idea for me to claim to your scum partner so then he targets me tonight. I see the whole getting a feel for someone fakeclaim wayyyyyy too much. People who need a fake claim normaly have that set up way in advance so its a null tell to me in any situation. Now if we were mass claiming then its another story but that is why the scummer people claim first.

[raider8169]

Someone is trying to make sure the sheep get to the next town for who knows what reason. Its a make sure they get there type thing and not a everyone must be dead type thing. That is why I think the sheep is town.

Your win condition isn't to prevent this from happening, is it?

No, my win condition has nothing to do with sheep. Which also mean I am not a sheep.

[raider8169]

How did the whole mass claim thing start? I know I said something about it to freeko but I never said we should mass claim. I just meant that at the rate we are going it is going to turn into that before long.

[raider8169]

@Tony: what was your purpose for fake claiming sheep?

I wasn't. The part of taking it back was a joke.

Ok Im confused by this. Why would you joke about that?

[raider8169]

but i do think freeko scum.

You know what. Aside from me wanting to be lynched and out of this game so I can join another one elsewhere. What possible evidence could you have to substantiate this?

Can you counter my claim? That would be a quick way to see that I am lying.

I am full well convinced that its the scum plan to lynch me today. Then when its (most likely lylo) tomorrow Vi gets it, becuase I wasnt scum so their speculation would simply be that Vi obviously was the scum.. though I am pretty certain that neither of us are. I can only speak for myself on that one.

So in the end you are saying that you are going to lynch a confirmed neighbor with no counter or reason to even think that I am scum. Except thats the scum plan for the day so you are just going to stick to it.

Outstanding.

Confirmed neighbor I will give you. What is not confirmed is if you are town or scum. It has already been brought that you both could be scum, town or one of each. Reguardless this lynch is not based on guessing that you are scum or trying to outguess the mod. Or I should say atleast I am not voting you for those reasons. Yes I was thinking that but you have shown no intention for helping out town and instead you just want to lynch anyone as long as it is not yourself.

Reguardless of what you flip that does not seal the coffin for Vi. If you say you think Vi is town and you flip town then that would mean something. If you say Vi is town and you flip scum then it would mean nothing. If Vi was to be lynched, there would be a real case and everyone would be able to chime in. It would not be just because freeko was lynched Vi is next.

[raider8169]

yup

Care to add anything to this? What was the point in just posting that?

[raider8169]

Vi is right, time is tight. Can everyone who is not voting, vote or atleast FoS someone so we know who you think is scum.

[raider8169]

I do not want a no lynch. I would much rather have a freeko lynch however I am not unwilling to vote someone else. Other peoples reasons for voting freeko are more because of his anti-town play and I do not like that at this point in the game. People like that can not make it to lylo but we are not at that point and the best play for today is to lynch the scummiest player not who everyone thinks is antitown. Though, antitown is scummy it may not make him the scummiest player.

Though freeko did just want a bunch of people lynched now a bunch of people are doing it to him. My vote will stay until either I can review the other people in isolation.

[raider8169]

I'm a pro at using confusing terminology, bear with me.

Yeah I will agree with you on this one.

[raider8169]

@Juls do you have something more then a gut feeling? Seems like you are trying to outguess the mod instead of lynching scum.

[raider8169]

Juls- im not even gonna attempt to answer any questions about why my predecessor said something, or did something, and if you feel the need to lynch me have at it. however im not him, so im not gonna answer for him.

Anyways, i haven't had as much free time as i had anticipated, and my normal way of replacing is to wait until i finish before i post comments, since people didn't seem to like me posting as i read. so im just posting to let everyone know i haven't forgotten about you, but i just haven't finished completely reading.

And no i don't anticipate claiming soon, juls.

The question I would like to know is that are you not willing to answer the question or can you just not answer the question.

[raider8169]

btw note to the mod this is the most twisted game i have ever been apart of period

That's what makes it interesting!!!

QFT!!!

[raider8169]

Vote: afatchic[/b] (L-3)

Heck, add on three more before i get caught up why don't ya. that should be fun.

If only I could.
Y'know, there's an easy way to get these votes off you. It involves making this game a priority, catching up, delivering a post, and pointing to someone scummier than you. Without the mod kicking you to do it.

I agree with this, for a deadline lynch the way you are going is going to make that you in a hurry. I would rather you catch up so we can lynch someone who I think is scummier then you.

[raider8169]

afatchic is currently at L-2 and there are four days left before deadline. Just playing stock ticker.

For the record I am well aware of this. If afatchic doesnt post something to change my mind I will change over my vote before the deadline.

[raider8169]

Unvote, vote afatchic

I really dislike afatchic's vote. Please post your thoughts but you have become today's lynch. I dont like the votes of half the people on freeko's bandwagon. As much as I want him lynched I do not want it to be because of people dumping a vote on him as a placeholder or because they could just get away with it.

[raider8169]

Actually I do have something to say to raider. Do you think aiming for self-preservation is scummy or anti-town? I get the feeling you're voting afatchic for voting freeko when his intentions are clearly at least in part to keep a role he knows to be sharing his alignment (i.e. himself) alive.

Aiming for self-preservation is not scummy IMO, it goes after their win condition as town or scum so at worse or best its a null tell. Freeko and afatchic did it this game alone. The problem I have is that everyone who currently have a vote on freeko is doing it so they have an easy out or a cheap placeholder for their vote to make it seem like they have in the game. I have been thinking about that for a while but this last vote seem to be too much for me.

Question for everyone, if we have the opition to watch tonight as the deadline it getting close should we choose to should watch or leave it up to the first person to grab it? I like the idea of picking someone.

[raider8169]

I have no preference, being sick sucks and there is not much someone can do about it.

[raider8169]

I am not in support of a nolynch. Unless someone has a reason for it I do not see the need for it right now.

[raider8169]

korts i'm thinkin he wants you to hammer there by revealing afatchic's role

What do you think about the wagon?

[raider8169]

i understand the wagon, but with the deadline looming an being lost in my own read i am reluctant to hammer, however i feel it also bad if we alow this to linger out. i believe the more this strectes out there worse off the town is.

So the question remains is that you are aware of the deadline. Are you going to act before the deadline hits or are you not going to change your vote and force us into a no lynch?

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-20

afatchic - 5 (Rhinox, Juls, Vi, freeko, Raider)
Freeko - 3 (BSG, TonyMontana, afatchic)
Juls - 1 (tubby)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)

Not Voting - 0 (Nobody is Not Voting)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in 4 Days, in case you happen to be wondering. This is Friday, February 28th, around 1:00 GMT (or 20:00 on the 27th for EST, etc.)

[raider8169]

See everyone tomorrow.

This sounds to me like you are unlynchable? Is that true? If true why did you not say something sooner?

[raider8169]

The pro-town thing to do would be claiming and letting

us

decide whether we wanted to waste a lynch on you. But you instead wanted to use your role, apparantly for your own amusement. So giddy about being an unlynchable.....

I agree, we may have saved a lynch and now scum get a free kill becuase of it. When we could have decided to lynch someone else instead.

Is the concusses to let freeko watch tonight then? I was leaning towards letting Vi watch because I still think freeko to be scum.

[raider8169]

Why freeko? Before I thought Rhinox had shown interest in watching.

Something was said a while back about it but when freeko spoke up. I think I was the only one who said something back. I assumed that meant that everyone else was ok with it.

My thoughts is that it should be the most towniest person to watch. I think also Korts should not do it as last time he said he had no choices. It would not make sense for me to do it as incase Korts was lieing and then I watched and got the samething it could be said we were making that up or something.

If everyone else does not want freeko to do it then I think the easiest method could be for everyone who wants to say something now and we can vote on it.

[raider8169]

Just for the record I have no intention of trying to watch nor will I post that I will watch when the time comes.

I would like everyone who is not going to watch post the same thing so we do not have someone try and jump the gun, if that is possible.

[raider8169]

Should we all do a top 3 people to watch of those willing and see if that will do the trick or does anyone else have a better idea?

[raider8169]

Herein lies the dilemna with anybody watching...

Anything can happen and though we are trying to limit what we can the best course of action is to send someone most of us think will act in the interest of town.

Those that elected not to watch or just shouldnt are:

TonyMontana
raider8169
Korts
afatchic

Leaving us with the choices:

freeko
Juls
tubby216
Rhinox
BSG
Vi

[raider8169]

Wow that was a busy night, unsure about all of it though. I have nothing to say one way is better then the other so it really doesnt matter to me. I will update more later as now it not a good time for me.

[raider8169]

Sounds fair Vi.

I just realized that someone was mentioning wolfs before and the scum happen to be wolfs. I dont think it means much as with sheep being present makes sense for wolfs to be the scum group. There was something else I wanted to say but cant remember now, maybe after I wake up I will come back.

[raider8169]

Wow raider, way to let minor little details like the name of the game slip past your comprehension. Its only calld

Wollf and the Traveler's Road

FFS. Sot it shouldnt be much of a shocker that there are wolves. Though now I really want to know if my "wolf" in sheep clothing" theory holds water or it if would just be too easy to think that.

Wow, yeah... so thanks for making me sound stupid

That is what I meant was the wolf in sheep clothing comment. I just failed at trying to explain it.

Im am suprised that the pairing of people were not broken up by kills.(Korts, me) (Vi, freeko). Also the killing of juls seems like it came from a town killing role as why else would scum have died. I assume the person who disappreared is dead as well just like the rest of them who disappeared.

Rhinox wanted me to full claim. I do not have a problem with it as it would help explain things more but it would make me more of a target. I will let everyone make this call not just one person. Last time this was brought up most people said no atleast not until I am at L-1.

[raider8169]

To a degree, I'm interested in raider's claim. (I'd actually REALLY like to know who hit Juls last night, but I don't think anyone's willing to claim it.)

It wasnt me but I am sure everyone is going to say the same thing.

[raider8169]

I think everyone should post whether or not raider should claim in their next post. If a majority votes 'yes', then raider should claim, and vise versa. If you vote "no", please state why not. No one's really spoke up yes or no since I proposed the idea, so I'm guessing most everyone is indifferent about it.

I would also like to add if you wish for me to claim I would like to know why.

[raider8169]

As a random sidenote.. is tubby even playing this game at all? What the hell was that last post he just made? Welcome to the I am not paying attention to anything at all department.

Im sort of under this even though you didnt say my name. Things have been really busy for me as of late. Just started taking more online classes so I need to balance things.

[raider8169]

As for raider, my suspicion of raider still stands. Nothing has happened since either the conversation or the aftermath of the night phase that makes me think anything different. Again, speculation. Give me enough time I could speculate up a whole routine better than the original from The Princess Bride, but thats not important. The reason I even brought up BSG or raider is because I was on the fence with them. My personal feeling about it was clouding what I should have been looking at.

For the records, I still think you to be scum but it does not seem the wise choice for today either. Along with that it seems

TonyMontana, tubby216, or Rhinox seems like one of them will be todays lynch. When I get time I hope this weekend I will to a PbP on them. Atleast for a starting point for me. I would still like to look into Vi and freeko more but I dont think I would get support for them today so my focus will be on the other 3.

[raider8169]

TonyMontana, tubby216, or Rhinox seems like one of them will be todays lynch.

Why these three?

I would still like to look into Vi and freeko more but

I dont think I would get support for them today

so my focus will be on the other 3.

I always hate it when people say this.
Are you interested in the truth, or getting a lynch (that isn't you)?

I need to read the thread for a change. brb

those 3 because the others are me/korts and you/freeko. Seems like right now those are bad lynches. I think they still need to be dicussed but for the most part that has already happened. I did not get the support I wanted for the freeko lynch with you not going to vote him and the same with Korts. As I do not have all the time in the world like I wish I wil focus on them because that to me is the priority and I will go from there. I can understand why you may hate it because it does leave out 4 other people that would just be able to skate by. This is not the case though atleast not intended to be.

[raider8169]

TonyMontana, tubby216, or Rhinox seems like one of them will be todays lynch. When I get time I hope this weekend I will to a PbP on them. Atleast for a starting point for me. I would still like to look into Vi and freeko more but I dont think I would get support for them today so my focus will be on the other 3.

See, this is where I start to have problems. Raider says he thinks sheep are town. Korts and tony are sheep. And now, raider says tony would be a good lynch choice... Why not Korts? Why is Tony a better lynch choice than korts?

I knew someone would point this out but I will explain it when I can do my review this weekend. This was something I think would make people think differently.

[raider8169]

Wow, I really hope this game is not waiting solely on my post. One more day and its the weekend though!

[raider8169]

Ok bear with me on this. As I dont have alot of time right this second but I will post the first parts of my thoughts as I have time.

The first thing that comes to find is the information I have been saying and how trustworthy it is. I overheard Occam talking to a sheep. So if what he says is trust worth then so if my information. The problem and I am not sure how to explain this is that he was only talking to a sheep. So I can only confirm that there is one sheep in the game. What was said is not really important anymore as Occam is dead. Korts admitted early to it and I said there was only one sheep in the game. The mod came on and tried to clarify that the opening kill was only flavor but it still fits along with everything. My thoughts is still that there is only one sheep but as there could be another Shepperd or something with sheep of their own I can not confirm this. From the roles that have already been revealed I do not think this to be the case. The problem now is that we have 2 people claiming sheep and I can only confirm one, it doesnt mean there are not more sheep but I do not think so. Korts admitted it without a counterclaim for a long time. Once it was announced that their could be another sheep we had another claim and the claim seemed more to be testing the waters to see if it would be an acceptable claim. Something scum might do but as I can not confirm it and bring this out would be saying more then I wanted but as we are getting closer and closer to lylo I would rather have this information out there in case I was killed and it might be of some help to the town. If it is ignored then so be it but at least it could be considered and that I think it important.

I will add more later, need to get working on my homework and wait for my daughter to stop attacking me.

Also on a side note, my work did an outing and we went skiing! I tried snowboarding for the second time in my life and though I did much better then the first time (which was a year ago) I am still in a lot of pain and do not feel like moving. That should help me do my review.

[raider8169]

Seeing raider's explanation of his plus knowledge, I think it's fair to conclude that either Tony is scum, or raider got only partial information. raider, why did you claim that you think there are

two

sheep?

This is the part that I am unsure of, the term both was used and in the opening scene a sheep died. I think that the first sheep death counted towards the both and from what I overheard the conversation was to "a" sheep, I take that to mean one sheep is still alive. I wish I could say I am positive on that but I am not. This is why I think TM is a possible lynch for today.

[raider8169]

1. When did you overhear?
2. How did you overhear?
3. I don't think it's up to you to decide whether what was said is relevant.
4. I believe you, because what you claim fits with my role.

Not sure what you mean why the when and how part. Well the how is that it is part of my role but unless I fully claim I can not really say more. I heard it while he was still alive and before he disappeared. I am not sure what triggered it if something did. As far as what is relevant or not, I can answer this by saying it is not relevant because Occam is no longer alive. I did not know I was listening to Occam at the time or anything like that. Had Occam claimed I would have been able to confirm his role or at least that the role existed.

[raider8169]

And no, I'm not part of the town in flavor, but my job is to protect the town - I win and lose with the town, so stucturally, I'm all town.

Thats believeable enough. Think its time for the mass claim game now?

I think it is, as there are only 4 roles that have not fully claimed and 3 of those have semi-claimed. TM is the only role that we have no idea about.

At this point I am for the massclaim. One of the claimed sheep are lying, I still think it is TM however the full claim should sort that out better.

Im not sure what to make of the claim, it does sound believe able and unless someone else counterclaims to killing Juls looks like we have a vig. Of course it could be made up. Im leaning believing at this time however I still think Korts is town.

[raider8169]

I think it is, as there are only 4 roles that have not fully claimed and 3 of those have semi-claimed. TM is the only role that we have no idea about.

EBWOP: Err tubby not TM, my bad.

[raider8169]

Ok I think today is going to be decided based on the claims. So I will go ahead and claim and give out all the information I have.

I am a nosy teenager. If I am in the right place right time type thing (atleast that is what I gather) I may overhear something.

So far I have overheard two things.

I heard someone talking to a sheep saying that they do not know what they will do without the sheep, and how he started the journey with both sheep. I take that to be if the sheep dies so will the other person but not positive. As it was found out to be Occam then that bit of information didnt matter anymore and I didn't want everyone knowing it without reason in case it did mean something for scum.

The second bit of information I know is that I overheard someone else speaking in a language I do not understand. I have an idea that it is Japanese or something like that. As I dont speak or understand Japanese I got nothing more

Still need to do my review. Almost done with my school work.

[raider8169]

The sheep roles all seem weak to me, as there are no vanilla roles but they seem close to it. The second set of info I have seems to have no connection to anything. This surprises me. The first part fits into everything just about. I am not buying all the sheep claims though. Someone in that group is lying but the question is who. The Lost sheep might fit in with Occam as we dont what his role does. Dumb sheep seems weak as well but I need to find something while i am doing my review, which I am working on I just keep getting side tracked as everyone is posting in this game. The Ram claim is not a sheep though, or at least what I would consider it because my information said sheep.. Bulletproof is possible but I wouldnt see it called that as we have yet to have a role with a gun. Mugged and stabbed so far. Someone has a fake claim I just dont know who yet.

[raider8169]

since raider seems to be misunderstanding me as well, I'll make it abundandly clear.

MY ROLE IS "RAM", IT WAS ONLY ME WHO CALLED IT BULLETPROOF. THIS IS NOT FLAVOR, THIS IS THE STANDARD ROLENAME FOR NK-IMMUNE TOWNIE.

I assumed this to be the case but thank you.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 3-4

Rhinox - 2 (Korts, tubby)
Korts - 1 (Rhinox)

Not Voting - 4 (Vi, freeko, Raider, TonyMontana)

With seven alive, it takes four to lynch.

[raider8169]

Staring with RS, Mega, tubby first

As I am doing tubby in isolation I will be going by post numbers as shown in isolation.

RS just joked around the entire time and Megaflareon was just as useless.

Post 3: Says there could be more then one sheep. Helps his claim a little bit.

Post 4 says he will catch up.

Post 5 Vote on freeko for being missleading

Post 6-9 nothing of importance

Post 10 saying he will have more later - Im noticing this pattern early on...

Post 11 summary of freeko nothing of it really stands out anymore. Most of the quotes is just now freeko has been playing most of the game.

Post 14, Vi is town, nothing to back it up but I guess he knows Vi.

Post 18 supports a mass claim

Post 23, votes Juls not much of a reason why.

Up to post 30 and most of it is just saying how he will catch up. Really never noticed it before but it is getting pretty bad.

Post 36, more talk about sheep.

Post 37 rough recap, seems really weak though.

Post 38 refuses to respond to things people he replaced did. Bunch of other crap but seemed to just try and squeeze by.

Post 41 first real long post however its mainly quotes from someone else. Ends up voting for Rhinox. Decent case, I think its worth of a vote.

Post 42 he sums up everyone but doesnt add much content. More tries to figure out everyone's role.

Post 47 his claim of Dumb Sheep.

Ok something was bothering me and it took me forever to find it. Post 464!

So Juls, Raider and Korts, could you please state if your role name is mentioned in your PM or not?

I dont have a name per say more of a description, not sure if that makes sense or not. I guess it could be a name but it could fall under either category.

I think I was the only one to answer this. Granted it was not directed at anyone but thought it was something worthy to bring up.

Overall I do not think tubby has been giving much in the term of context. Atleast not to a point most of us have been giving. His claim seems really vanilla to me and we know there are no vanilla role. Right now I am leaning scum on tubby.

I just realized I never went back and looks at Juls interaction with other people. I think I will check that out next.

[raider8169]

Raider, did you try plugging what you received in the foreign language into an online translator? Maybe that will tell you something.

That would be a good idea if I had something to plug in. I was just not meant to find out I guess, though I could confirm that there is a role like that only with no one claiming it I am thinking it might be a scum related role.

[raider8169]

I just finished reading over Juls and 2 things came to mind. Early on Juls was pro Vi and doubted their claim but went for a freeko lynch. Never thought about this before but as we know Juls is scum and this was when freeko had to claim I wonder if this was a busing attempt or an attempt to clear Vi when/if freeko flipped town. It adds to my thinking that either Vi or freeko is scum but again nothing to back that up. My money is that freeko is scum and the above was a busing attempt.

[raider8169]

I'd have more doubts about raider, if his story didn't fit so well with my own role.

I dont understand this. How does my story have anything do to with your role other then saying that Occam was talking to a sheep? If you are the sheep he was talking about then it should fit. The other sheep roles seem out of place and I still think that is where the scum can hide in. I am just not positive who is lying.

[raider8169]

Rhinox has a solid case. I still have a hard time believing it as Korts has been the person I thought to be town the entire time. I have been strapped for time lately and just found out I have to travel next week. Not sure if I will have internet there yet but hope to find out soon.

[raider8169]

I know if any, this is the game that I should keep going in, but I have no time for mafia whatsoever at this point. I apologize deeply for any trouble I may be causing.

mod: replace me please.

Are you being replaced in other games? This seems very out of place considering the case just presented against you.

[raider8169]

I can vouch that Korts has been getting replaced all around. Good luck with what's going on IRL, Korts. Hungarian Power, etc.

I side with Korts that pushing accusations based on the term "bulletproof" is retarded. It's the standard name for the role, and in

every other game

Mafiosi use these modern inventions called "bullets". And after reading... Korts' claim isn't necessarily terrible, except for the part where he claimed Rhinox killed Occam. What bothers me is how he made a show of saying he can't divulge that his information came from Candle Ja--er, the m*d, when the only regulation I see on the matter in the rules is against

quoting

stuff from the mod. In addition, he says that he got this information in a manner "similar to how raider got his about the sheep", yet raider's information came from a role-related ability and Korts has made no mention of such a thing. Oddly, reading raider's N1 disclosure the claimed informatia raider and Korts got seem like they could fit together. But if that's the case, why am I only the first person making this connection?

I sense that somewhere, some key information is being missed. Which would suggest that that information wasn't there in the first place? Intuition strongly suggests against this, but--

Vote: Korts

(L-2)

Yet more good points

I dont see how the information he has is similiar, and the information he has on rhonix holds no ground by saying the mod will not let him use the information. It just doesnt fit right. The claim is possible but it doesnt seem to fit. On thing I do find odd and have sense the claim is that he claimed sheep a long time ago but claiming sheep is not the same as claiming ram. Minor difference sure but it changes alot and I can not confirm a ram role only a sheep. If there is a ram I can see how the bulletproof fits in with it but with the other roles we have seen it still seems a little weak, it would fit fine as scum but I dont think that is a good reason to vote or even hammer at this point.

What information could fit together? I dont know what you are referring too.

I can not say I have an objection to the vote however I would like to hear from Korts again however I do not think that is going to happen plus having someone new come in is going to take a while for them to catch up and being at L-1 seems like that is going to complicate things.

I have been hurting for time lately and it seems like it is going to continue on for a while so if you guys can wait to hammer before I can reread korts that would be cool however I do not know when I will get time to do it. I have been gone for a week and get to see my wife and kids for a day before I am shipping back out.

[raider8169]

On thing I do find odd and have sense the claim is that he claimed sheep a long time ago but claiming sheep is not the same as claiming ram.

A ram is the proper term for a male sheep. An ewe is the female term for a sheep.

This is just so you know. Wikipedia and freshman biology (15 years ago, which is why I had to check wiki and make sure) told me so.

Ewe? I dont recall ever hearing that before now.

What information could fit together? I dont know what you are referring too.

You said you overheard a shepherd talking to his sheep.
Korts claimed (among other things) Favorite Sheep, so the shepherd (Occam) would have been talking to

him

.

I never caught that before. All these do add up in favor of korts but nothing is going to help getting him replaced. I hope to be able to review Korts better tonight.

[raider8169]

well I don't have a conventional rolename. Instead of the standard "you are a <rolename>" I got "you are a sheep."

Just thought I would point this out.

At this point I'm starting to grow more fond of a Juls wagon

I dont recall any action other then this post. I dont think it means anything by itself but it might if there is more of where that came from.

Nevertheless the play today is either Rhinox or Juls

Not much interaction against Juls is noted. Not sure it means anything though.

In, I think, a similar way to how raider gained knowledge of the sheep, I got the information that Rhinox is responsible for the Occam shepherd's death. It is from a reliable source.

This one is a biggie to me. If the information was similar to mine he would have been able to post it. I said how I got my inside information so it does seem like something that scum would have the knowledge of.

The information that Rhinox is scum was not role-based.

These are just some posts I wanted everyone else to see again. I can not say I have anything to go against the wagon as I do not know who the information I have is pointing to however I can still see it as being Korts.

Can everyone check back in and comment, even if you have nothing to add just so I know everyone has read this post.

[raider8169]

Nail in coffin, indeed.

Vote: Korts

Well I was trying to make sure everyone commented before I did this but it was going to happen in the end.

[raider8169]

Who wants to do it and then between those people we can vote. Of course I think it should be someone townie like of course.

[raider8169]

Yeah I dont think it really matters.

[raider8169]

Ok, well the things I thought scummy were scummy and the things I thought town were town. Of course the claim was a lie. At the point he was lynched his only way to win was to win with the scum so in the long run he would have been a good lynch.

Vi has a point as this could mean only one scum left however that would seem too town sided. I am guessing this could mean only 2 scum left but anyways the game continues until we find them all. Maybe after I get some sleep I can make sense of this.

[raider8169]

Agreed that we are most likely at lylo, I have more information though.

Korts was the last sheep. In other words there are no more sheep. Those claiming sheep roles are lying. Vi it looks like the game is going to be chosen by you. tubby and TM are scum but not sure how the game is still going on. I am guessing there win conditions have not been met but it doesnt make sense how they just did not kill both of us and win.

You may ask how I know well I think I figured out where my information was coming from. The person that was mugged gets to have final words and I get those final words. It just makes sense and I got information from Occam the first night, Isuna Hasekura (BSG) the second night and last night I got information from Rhinox.

Rhinox was sending a message to his lord saying the sheep have been killed. The merchants and the kid are left but he will give his life in protection of them. Not word for word of course but as close as I think I can come.

Tubby, TM how do you explain this scum?

[raider8169]

Vi,

How much do you believe in your hallucination? Everything does fit but I do not wish to rush this.

[raider8169]

Vi,

How much do you believe in your hallucination? Everything does fit but I do not wish to rush this.

This mod-info, even with the label "questionable", fits in with everything we know and does nothing to go against any of it (except tubby's Dumb Sheep claim). TonyMontana's claim is solid. Yours is weird as anything, but I don't have a reason to doubt it. By that alone, tubby is singled out.

In other words, this would be the best play today regardless.

I can only agree with you. Everything fits even the lost sheep bit.

Vote Tubby

[raider8169]

raider's claim was a bit off in retrospect, but congratulations on making it work wonderfully nonetheless. Was the Japanese thing only coincidence?

No, when I mugged someone I got their role PM, that is how I knew the information.

The reason I picked the nosey teenager is that I thought it would fit best with the flavor. A few other people said they had roles that were descriptive and thought that was the best way to squeeze by.

I had no clue the wolves were killing, we picked the same people quite a few nights and I was not counting on that. I wanted to Mug TM but thought with him watching it would not be wise.

I must say clinging on to Korts saved me early on. I also thought I was dead as soon as I had I have information for everyone. Not sure how I managed to get out of being lynched when tubby started the train but I have no complaints. I figured by saying there are no more sheep would get Vi to back me and the worse then would be a no lynch. Which would give me another kill and a way to start over.

Great Game Mod!

[raider8169]

*sigh*... I can't believe Tony and Raider were both scum, and tubby and freeko were innocent.

For the record I was not scum!

Of course I was not a good guy anyways.

If you have not used up your one time bullet proof thing I would have been been a shoe in to win.

[raider8169]

But that would have been no fun

+1

The sad part about the whole thing is that Occam was a random kill. I can never keep track the first day with so many people so I just picked someone that posted but did not seem extremely pro-town.

I could not have picked a better person to kill on the first day. I just wish the wolves would have not picked the same people as me so many times. I started to think that the kills were coming only from the people that were watching and that I was not able to kill the person watching. A lot of guess work on my part but it did keep me alive until the end.