Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[Rhinox]

2) Prom King claimed to confirm freeko as Town. freeko understandably had no idea what was going on with that, because my Role PM says absolutely nothing about a confirmed-Town partner and I'm willing to believe freeko's doesn't either. So here you have a conflict of interest for freeko - Prom King is calling freeko obvTown AND is "linked" to him, but at the same time is acting like obvscum who deserves a noose necklace.

And this is a no-win scenario, because I believe freeko is Town (if not confirmed Town).
If you're up in arms about someone lying, I've already covered that Prom King lied to you and everyone about having a confirmed partner, so there's really no mystery about it. But I don't think you're interested in who's lying, so long as one of us gets lynched.

Also, lining up lynches is *bad* in the general sense.

ok... I see whats going on here... This may potentially be a huge oversight on my part... I thought freeko kept insisting that PK could confirm him because it said so in his (freeko's) role PM. But why wouldn't freeko have just said that to clear it up, instead of acting all wierd and saying nothing but "your taking things out of context and fabricating"...

However, I have another question... shouldn't the topic of whether or not the masons can confirm each other come up in the quicktopic pre-game discussion? I've never been a mason before, but that seems like the first thing I would want to ask my partner...

1) That our win condition is to survive until D6, with eliminating the bad guys being secondary. This is an understandable misreading (well, understandable to me because I can read my own Role, although I can't quote it to you) but, as mentioned earlier, not the case. Dare I ask if anyone else got a similar message in their flavor text?

Occam and myself have both said we don't have any 6 day alternate win condtition in our roles PM.

Also, my issue with freeko's claim of an alternate win condition is that:
A) if he has it in his role PM, then he's (probably) the only one, but in one post he claimed that you and him both had that win condition (and you've confirmed today that you dont, and
B) If he doesn't have it in his role PM, it seems like he read the rules, saw that the town made it to the next town at the start of day 6, and assumed that all town probably had that win condition as well - however, the fact that he originally stated he recognized it as an alternate win condition makes me think A) is more likely, unless he stated it that way to be safe, and thought townies would come to his rescue saying "oh I have that win condition too..."

^^

those issues aside, I still don't know why freeko has a problem stating his role name, now that we already know his role, and I find it extremely scummy to ask for BSG's role name in return.

ok, so he's given us his name now... seems believable to me.

@Freeko, does your role PM state Vi can confirm you, or did you just infer that based on PK actually claiming you were town? Does your role specifically say you have an alternate win condition of making it to the next town alive, or did you just infer that from the flavor? I want answers to these questions before I consider unvoting.

@Raider: I've been trying to get a read on you all game... I get the feeling you play as sort of an active lurker... would you say that is an accurate description of your playstyle, and do you think that is a legitamite strategy to use as town?

Um, hello? You DO realize who you're talking to, right?

Ah yes... the wrath of Vi returns.

P.S. Next game you mod, you should include a Dayvig named Right Said Fred, who must include the phrase "I'm too sexy" in every post

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-6

Rhinox - 3 (Vi, Freeko, Korts)
Freeko - 2 (Rhinox, BSG)

Not Voting - 5 (Megaflareon, Lunar_Tick, Sipylus, Raider, Juls)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Lunar Tick and Sipylus, in that order. Megaflareon has one day to respond to his/her prod.

Deadline is in 17 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[freeko]

FFS.. I will say this one last time. Its a flavor of my role , that I have coem to realize is misinterpreted (by me) to be an alternate win condition. It says that I am only interested in getting to the town in the flavor, and the rules state that I get to the town at the beginning of day 6.

As for my partnber BEFORE Vi came in.. I think Vi put it about right that he was retarded... and inactive. Also the game started right when the site crashed and was moved to a new host, so that kinda hindered things slightly.

I have already said EVERYTHING in my role pm now without directly quoting it. And I made it clear already that it is said that I am to be wary of him. Again not helped by the brainless retard outburst from PK that caused this whole thing to start.

If you want even more, too bad. I cant give it to you because that would mean a verbatim quote of my role pm, I cannot do that.

[raider8169]

@Raider: I've been trying to get a read on you all game... I get the feeling you play as sort of an active lurker... would you say that is an accurate description of your playstyle, and do you think that is a legitimate strategy to use as town?

I dont try to be an active lurker but I do come across like that. So I guess it could be considered an accurate description but I try to be more then that. I guess you need to play a few games with me to see that. My problem is that I miss the little things other people pick up on. Some people have a knack for it, I am not one of those people. As far as a legitimate strategy I would have to say sure, I have yet to be replaced in any game I have been in. One thing that gets me is when someone has an argument I stay out of it until I decide which side I think it right.

Hope that explains it.

[Juls]

Holy conversation batman!

My role PM explicitly states that I win when the bad guys are dead, which is obviously the Town win condition

My Role PM's flavor says I only wish to get to the next Town.
It does not say anything game-mechanic-wise (as in, Your Win Condition Is) about doing so.

Which is it?

I am a Neighbor.

Me = merchant
Vi = my companion

Which is it?

OMG I feel so guilty for doing this because I love Vi, but

FoS: Vi

You tell me yours and I will tell you mine. There will be no other terms or negotiation here.

This is so blatant and scummy I am taken aback by it. Plus your reactions to Rhinox are so venomous and defensive. I think PK forced you into a gambit you weren't comfortable with and now Vi has no choice but to go with it.

Vote: freeko

One thing that gets me is when someone has an argument I stay out of it until I decide which side I think it right.

Pretty much sounds like scum sitting back to choose the popular side. Noted.

----Sidenotes------

My avatar is now creepy.

QFT


@freeko - When you don't quote names in your quote boxes and you refer to people as "you" instead of by name, I get really confused at who you are talking to. Can you make an effort to be more clear. I noticed in my first read through but forgot to mention it.

[Vi]

Which is it?

The win condition plainly stated near the bottom of the role says I win when all threats are gone.
The flavor says I want to get to the next town.
Since apparently nobody knows what's going on with the whole getting-to-town thing that was mentioned in the topic post, I'm banking that the actual win condition (or at least the one worth being interested in) is the one that just happens to look an awful lot like the standard Town win condition.

Which is it?

Flavor Name: Merchant's companion
Role Name: Neighbor

[Vi]

Doubleposting to say that my avatar is now creeping ME out.

[freeko]

Skimming much Juls?

Oh wait, I know its all about still trying to get me lynched since thats what your scum discussion was about in the night time wasnt it? How could you so blatantly miss EVERYTHING thats happened lately? Or did you not get the memo? Appears another read-thru is in order for you I think.

[Juls]

Freeko, there is no need to be rude. No I did not skim. I read the posts when I got home from work and school. Unfortunately, I am not afforded the opportunity to hang out on my computer reading mafiascum all day. The point of my post was to point out the inconsistencies in what Vi has said and the scummy behavior that you exhibit. I do not apreciate your hostility. Your rudeness does nothing to convince me that you are anything but caught scum.

[Vi]

All right, here's my idea of what's going on. It's not terribly well-organized because I typed it to look good in the text box rather than in the post, but I think you can read it - all hard returns are separate thoughts.

-~-

RS's posts on Page 1 look seriously sketchy to me - the immediate explanation after posting his path choice followed by the bandwagon "random" on Korts. I obviously wasn't there for the post loss, so maybe someone can tell me if that was originally more random than it looks. I'm not sure what to make of 25 either.

My path chosing is a total null tell in every respect.

The mod himself stated its lack of importance. I mearly saw the game had started first.

RS later joined the Lunar_Tick wagon in 67 after L_T said he had mod-given info about which choices are better than others. Whoever replaces L_T needs to talk about this, pronto.

-~-

freeko's activity can basically be summed up as saying "don't hurt the newbie" while offering minimally-to-plainly-UNhelpful posts in a seemingly violent manner. 88 is a good example.

-~-

raider seems to like slipping by. His comments tend to be dispensable one-liners. Am I missing a meta here, or is this an obvious front for activity?

I am a reserved voter as in I normaly do not vote unless I have reason too. However I have learned its the people that toss their votes around that get people talking and in the end figure out the best people to lynch.

...

Vote MM

Keeping a vote on a claimed Mason is not cool. Granted he has not been cleared yet but it is worth of an unvote.

You mean after all that freeko business, you're just now finding a good reason to vote someone? Did it have to do with the three people who voted just before you did, perchance?~

-~-

Korts seems reasonable early on, though he also jumps on the L_T wagon at the first opportunity. And then he claims the world is fogging up in 101, when Occam begins to question said wagon.

I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice.

What LT said, basically, is that there is no chance at all that it

wasn't

a random choice. Sure, chances are that it was, but there is no reason to exclude the possibility of scum motives.

This is weak. But not entirely dubious.
When Prom King softclaimed, Korts immediately jumped to the conclusion of having found a scumpair. I

wish

Mafia was that easy; you should know it's not.
Basically everything about Korts's reaction to Prom King + freeko looks opportunistic to me, to save time...

"Ugh. Mason claim from my two top mislynches. I'll see if I can salvage a cop investigation on them, though."

lol, this feeling. I know it well. (Although I usually think this when I'm Town... Does this make me a bad person?) I'm pretty sure I saw something like this in your reaction. And...

Wow.

unvote, vote: MonkeyMan

Old flames returning?

L-1

, please claim.

Good find, Rhinox. Someone hammer plz?

Right on the next wagon and driving it to a lynch.

I think cleric is supposed to be doctor applied to the theme. But on second thought, I can't imagine sheep as clerics.

THIS is interesting. Did you seriously think until me and freeko claimed that all the Townies were sheep? Excoos me for being incredulous here. With no sample Townie PM to base your judgment on, this either means your role is Sheep and your role PM has no indication that anyone else in the caravan is human,

OR

you have no idea who's in the Town

because you're not one of them.

vote: Prom King

Post or perish.

And... an L-2 vote to throw on the pile. My, my, mymymy.

-~-

Kiro 81 seems like the kind of waffley post scum would use to join an obvious wagon. (I recognize it because I've done it before myself ) Kiro is one of the bunch who came to mafiascum from the same place I did, and he reminds me of me (except with tact and skill) - always looks pro-Town, and is very thoughtful, but is almost never Mafia. And I think that last part is showing very much in 81.

I dislike how Juls' analysis of everyone is "suspicious, be on guard". This isn't necessarily a scumtell, but it's not a good position to be in.

-~-

Why are you still on LT's wagon? Do you feel it's justified?

That all depends on whether or not LT is scum.

Um, what?

Well, seeing as my vote was random and the first vote on LT, I'm not really part of the wagon. My vote should be analyzed separately from the rest of the bandwagon votes.

Um, what?

When not saying overtly suspicious things, Rhinox has come off as somewhat reasonable, to produce a generally uneasy read on him.

(And Juls, I know better than you do how good Rhinox is at this game )

-~-

BSG flew completely under my radar; I forgot she was in the game until 184. I'm not sure what to make of her.

-~-

Sipylus hasn't been readable to me.

--------------
~~~~~~~
--------------

Cool people to lynch, in order of decreasing importance:

Based on the L_T wagon:

Kiro/Juls
Rhinox
Korts
raider

Based on the RS conspiracy:

RS/Megaflareon
Korts
raider

Based on Prom King + freeko

Korts
Korts again
Rhinox
Juls
raider
Der Hammer

Unvote: Rhinox
Vote: Korts

(L-5)
:arrow: Claimed scum gogogo :arrow:

-----

Also and off-topic, as far as I can tell Neighbors are one of the most useless roles evar. I guess it helped in this case when mass reading comprehension failure took over, but when all you can do is talk to someone overnight without knowing their alignment, the best you can do is decide their alignment based on the night-talk... which is all kinds of unprovable.

P.S. Next game you mod, you should include a Dayvig named Right Said Fred, who must include the phrase "I'm too sexy" in every post

When Jailbreak is over, I'll poll everyone about what the next game's theme should be. An iPod theme is definitely one of the options

[Rhinox]

FFS yourself...

@Freeko, does your role PM state Vi can confirm you, or did you just infer that based on PK actually claiming you were town? Does your role specifically say you have an alternate win condition of making it to the next town alive, or did you just infer that from the flavor? I want answers to these questions before I consider unvoting.

These are two simple and easy to answer questions, and neither requires you to quote your role PM. I'll make it multiple choice.

1: Does your role PM state Vi can confirm you, or did you just infer that based on PK actually claiming you were town?

A)Yes, my role PM says Vi/PK knows I'm town.
B)No, my role PM does not say so, but I thought PK knew I was town since he claimed in thread I was town.
C)FFS... I'm being unnecessarily defensive and hostile, and I refuse to answer any question or be helpful in any way.

2: Does your role specifically say you have an alternate win condition of making it to the next town alive, or did you just infer that from the flavor?

A) My win condition says I win when all threats to the town are eliminated, or if I survive to make it to the next town.
B) My win condition says I win when all threats to the town are eliminated. The flavor to my role says I only care about making it to the next town, but is not stated as a win condition.
C) I don't care what you have to say, and I'm not going to be helpful to the town.

So far you have answered C for both questions. I want to hear in your next post a clear A or B answer for each question. There will be no compromise here. Give an F-ing straight answer already.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont try to be an active lurker but I do come across like that. So I guess it could be considered an accurate description but I try to be more then that. I guess you need to play a few games with me to see that. My problem is that I miss the little things other people pick up on. Some people have a knack for it, I am not one of those people. As far as a legitimate strategy I would have to say sure, I have yet to be replaced in any game I have been in. One thing that gets me is when someone has an argument I stay out of it until I decide which side I think it right.

Hope that explains it.

Sort of... I'm still piecing some things together.

By legitimite strategy, I meant, do you think it is a protown way to play?

The problem I forsee with staying out of arguments until you decide which side is right is that it sounds dangerously like scum fence-sitting until there is a wagon to jump on...

You made this comment earlier:

Not removing your vote is not a bad thing it causes discussions and that is always good. I am a reserved voter as in I normaly do not vote unless I have reason too. However I have learned its the people that toss their votes around that get people talking and in the end figure out the best people to lynch.

But, you've only placed 2 votes the entire game, both on the same person: your random on monkeyman, and then the vote on the monkeyman wagon. Its seems to me like you're not following your own advice - you say the way to get people talking and figure out the best player to lynch is to throw your vote around, but you haven't done that at all. Should I infer, then, that you're intentionally playing in a way to not generate discussion to figure out the best player to lynch?

[freeko]

Oh wow. I think I get it.. A (were)wolf in sheep's clothing. What an excellent flavor for this game.

Oh, I guess since you made it multiple choice. The closest answers are B for both of them. Though for the first one I would add that PK is/was a (fill in the blank how you wish)ing idiot. The second one is spot on though.

[BSG]

First of all, thanks for acknowledging my begging. The penguin won't forget this.
And after seeing your last post, I'd have liked it more if you had entered this game immediatly. Nobody wanted to wagon Korts with me .

@Vi
I can't see how PK could make a mistake like that. According to freeko, it's mentioned at his PM that he doesn't know what the allignment is of his partner. The same, according to you, is written in your PM. So I don't see how come PK was sure that freeko is innocent. I know you can't answer for PK, but do you perhaps have an explanation how he could have missed this?
And could you explain the part of '(if not confirmed Town)' said in post 390?


@Korts
I asked, because the claim has changed a lot. First they were masons, then when Vi comes in, it changed to neighbours. Nothing much, as this could be an honest mistake. But then I thought back of MM's role which was cleric. According to the mod, this meant that he was a doc. My role has also a completely different name than usual. This is most likely the case with everybody.
What I do find odd is that one of them claimed merchant, while the other claimed merchant companion, so I'm not sold yet on either claim.


@Vi
I'd like to know what the difference is between me and Raider. According to you, I flew completely under your radar. You say sorta the same about Raider. So how come Raider is scummy to you, while having no read on me?

[Rhinox]

Oh wow. I think I get it.. A (were)wolf in sheep's clothing. What an excellent flavor for this game.

Oh, I guess since you made it multiple choice. The closest answers are B for both of them. Though for the first one I would add that PK is/was a (fill in the blank how you wish)ing idiot. The second one is spot on though.

Thanks...

unvote

while I reread and figure out whats going on now.

FYI, the reason I voted for you is because I thought when you first roleclaimed, you said the answers to those questions were both A, and Vi came in and said the answers were both B. You should have been more clear with your initial claim, and when it became apparent I didn't understand 100% what you actually claimed was your role and what was just flavor or inferred, and when I asked you to clarify how I was misrepping you, taking things out of context, and fabricating, maybe you could have actually done that instead of calling me scum.

I'm still suspicious of you for asking for a role name from BSG before giving your role name.

BSG, just to clarify, were you asking freeko to confirm what his role is labeled as in his PM (mason or neighbor), or were you actually asking him for his flavor name?

[BSG]

Flavor name, as it was already clear that the actual name isn't mentioned in the PM.

[Vi]

@Vi
I'd like to know what the difference is between me and Raider. According to you, I flew completely under your radar. You say sorta the same about Raider. So how come Raider is scummy to you, while having no read on me?

Because you ask questions like this and say more than one thing at a time.

@Vi
I can't see how PK could make a mistake like that. According to freeko, it's mentioned at his PM that he doesn't know what the allignment is of his partner. The same, according to you, is written in your PM. So I don't see how come PK was sure that freeko is innocent. I know you can't answer for PK, but do you perhaps have an explanation how he could have missed this?
And could you explain the part of '(if not confirmed Town)' said in post 390?

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity... and people who seem to enjoy throwing games. Have you heard of Gimbo, a.k.a. Puta Puta? (Look at his posts by themselves. Yes, I see the irony in him being Mafia and claiming Mason. There was no way in heck his scumpartners were going to touch that one. But apparently he did stuff like that regardless of alignment.)
The parenthesized side comment seems self-explanatory. I believe freeko is Town. I do not believe freeko is confirmed Town. The reasons why have been explained already.

------

Why aren't people voting Korts? Hur-ry, hur-ry, hur-ry, step right up. You can't get more of a slip than that. Two shots at the dunking booth for a quarter. Quit pushing, everyone gets a chance.

(I think DrippingGoofball is rubbing off on me.)

[Juls]

I dislike how Juls' analysis of everyone is "suspicious, be on guard". This isn't necessarily a scumtell, but it's not a good position to be in.

I said PK and freeko were most suspicious and that raider and Korts were kinda on my radar. I made a comment about Rhinox "making me nervous" but that was really more of a joke than anything based on his ability to fool me in the past. To be honest, that list hasn't changed much since I initially made that post. You seem to have 5 people on your list of suitable lynches (6 if you count Der Hammer ).

THIS is interesting. Did you seriously think until me and freeko claimed that all the Townies were sheep? Excoos me for being incredulous here. With no sample Townie PM to base your judgment on, this either means your role is Sheep and your role PM has no indication that anyone else in the caravan is human, OR you have no idea who's in the Town

because you're not one of them.

This I find interesting. The only mentions of sheep I can recall have been from Korts, the mod (he was a sheep) and Occam (he said something very early about sheeps walking on mountains and something about a sheppard later on). I wasn't crazy about his reasoning for revoting MonkeyMan. Now, MM was as crazy as a loon and I admit, had I been in the game at that point I would have TOTALLY voted MM, but I didn't see why he unvoted and revoted using that excuse. It's possible that Occam is a sheppard (GodFather) of Sheep (Goons?). But why would this not be called Sheep and the Travelers' Road (lol). I will do a re-read of Korts later (probably tomorrow night...two tests in the next 36 hours so I am kinda swamped studying).

[Rhinox]

Flavor name, as it was already clear that the actual name isn't mentioned in the PM.

Since thats the case, then I'm suspicious of your question...

I mean, I know why you would want to know if you're town - to see if the flavor name is similar in style to your town flavor name... however, we don't know you're town. In a theme game, rolename fishing aka flavor fishing is kinda scummy, since scum need an idea of flavor and names they can use if/when they need to fake claim.

vote BSG

, but still exploring other routes as well.

[freeko]

I mean, I know why you would want to know if you're town - to see if the flavor name is similar in style to your town flavor name... however, we don't know you're town. In a theme game, rolename fishing aka flavor fishing is kinda scummy, since scum need an idea of flavor and names they can use if/when they need to fake claim.

+1

And, to an extent why I did not want to answer him outright in the first place. Though my method of denial was not exactly the greatest it seems.

[Vi]

vote BSG

, but still exploring other routes as well.

Denial is the first stage, is it not?
Your reason for voting BSG bites*, and your seeming-ignorance of me OBVIOUSLY BANDWAGONING SOMEONE is out of place.

*Subject to change upon learning why BSG wanted to know the flavor per se. 'Doesn't change how you've attempted to answer this question for her though.

[Rhinox]

...and your seeming-ignorance of me OBVIOUSLY BANDWAGONING SOMEONE is out of place.

oh wow... I completely missed Vi:408... have some comments on it:

RS later joined the Lunar_Tick wagon in 67 after L_T said he had mod-given info about which choices are better than others. Whoever replaces L_T needs to talk about this, pronto.

I don't remember L_T saying he had mod-giving info about the choices, I think L_T incinuated that there might be mod-given info in some people's roles (I.E. RS) about picking paths, and he said so in a scummy role fishing kind or way.

raider seems to like slipping by. His comments tend to be dispensable one-liners. Am I missing a meta here, or is this an obvious front for activity?

This is what I'm trying to determine.

THIS is interesting. Did you seriously think until me and freeko claimed that all the Townies were sheep? Excoos me for being incredulous here. With no sample Townie PM to base your judgment on, this either means your role is Sheep and your role PM has no indication that anyone else in the caravan is human, OR you have no idea who's in the Town because you're not one of them.

You're right... this is VERY interesting.

Why are you still on LT's wagon? Do you feel it's justified?

That all depends on whether or not LT is scum.

Um, what?

Well, seeing as my vote was random and the first vote on LT, I'm not really part of the wagon. My vote should be analyzed separately from the rest of the bandwagon votes.

Um, what?

I was trying to be discrete, so as to not remove any pressure LT might have been feeling as a result of my vote being on him. The LT wagon was the first of the game, and it happened to be on who I randomed for. Instead of unvoting with an "OMG why is LT being wagoned", I decided the LT wagon was a good oportunity to see how everybody reacted to an early, unjustified wagon (IMO, an LT lynch would have been entirely unjustified). Both my comments are truth. If LT would have been lynched and were scum, then there probably would have been some underlying justification for the wagon that I just didn't see. my second comment was my way of saying my vote should be seen as random and left strictly for pressure/reactions without actually saying "my vote had no purpose but for pressure."

ty;dr version: my vote on LT was random, but it was left on after the wagon started for pressure. My comments were meant to keep up the facade that the vote had a real threat of leading to a LT lynch, so that we would maybe get some sort of reaction out of LT (that never came, but it was interesting to see who jumped on the wagon, and who avoided it alltogether - a subject I really should revisit now that you've reminded me about it).

When not saying overtly suspicious things, Rhinox has come off as somewhat reasonable, to produce a generally uneasy read on him.

(And Juls, I know better than you do how good Rhinox is at this game )

I get the feeling you're ALWAYS going to have an uneasy read on me do to past games unless we're confirmed masons together, or on the same scum team.

When Jailbreak is over, I'll poll everyone about what the next game's theme should be. An iPod theme is definitely one of the options

Oh my... Its perfect! /pre-in!!!

Right Said Fred Daykill: I'm too sexy for Rick Astley

[Rhinox]

and you're right. Korts is obvscum. Way scummier than BSG.

unvote, vote korts

[Juls]

You guys are going to make me fail my tests! (procrastination is scum!) So, I did a re-read of Korts. I didn't like some of his decisions early on and I can't ignore Vi's point about him possibly outting himself and being a bandwagon whore. I am still not convinced of the masons but I am willing to accept the

possibility

of it being true. With that said,

Unvote, Vote: Korts

(L-3)

[freeko]

Guess everyone is serious enough about this. Seems now I will get to see how much of a liar Korts is.

unvote

vote: korts

[raider8169]

Ok someone explain the korts bandwagon. I dont recall Korts doing anything that deserved to be lynched. As Juls said a reread on Korts might do it.

But, you've only placed 2 votes the entire game, both on the same person: your random on monkeyman, and then the vote on the monkeyman wagon. Its seems to me like you're not following your own advice - you say the way to get people talking and figure out the best player to lynch is to throw your vote around, but you haven't done that at all. Should I infer, then, that you're intentionally playing in a way to not generate discussion to figure out the best player to lynch?

I did say the best way to start conversation is to toss your votes around. However that is not how I like to play. I do not concidered it pro-town or anti-town as that is just how I play. I have been lynched for it as town and scum but that is just how I like to play. I like to think I become more useful as the days goes on as I have bandwagons to look into and more general information on the other players. We are on day 2 and you have placed 8 votes. To me that says you are just trying to lynch anyone. Is 8 votes excessive or are you just not sure who should be lynched? If I vote someone I fully intend to see that person lynched or gain some valuable information from it. It sounds like you are trying to twist my playstyle around to sound like my play is always scummy however I play based on the information I have. Alot of new information has come about in the last couple of days. We do not need to rush things.

Pretty much sounds like scum sitting back to choose the popular side. Noted.

The popular side most likely also reflects the side of the person who is telling the truth or has more things to back up their side of the aurgument. Look at the bandwagon on Korts, 3 posts in a row, three votes. OMG everyone outside of the first vote is taking the popular side so they must be scum. Ignoring the fact that people take different amounts of time to pick a side. Right now I am sitting on the fence, is there a problem with not always wanting to jump on someone and lynch them before enough information is gathered to make an educated vote?

Right now I think either Freeko or Vi are scum. Im sure the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person. I do not know which one and I have been back and forth between the two alot.

[Korts]

Okay, that's a bit surprising to see.

I haven't read through the big posts completely, but a quick skim is good enough for now. Don't have a lot of time.

I clearly don't agree with my wagon and the speed of it is very implicative. I don't like the late arrivals, especially Rhinox's vote reeks of opportunism. I didn't see you making any point at all regarding me, which is slightly uncharacteristic even if everyone else has already said it before you. Despite your usual verbosity you just jump on my wagon with an "oh yes, Korts is obvscum" comment.

Juls is also fishy. The only comments on me she makes are generalized.

I'm much more comfortable with raider's reaction (although that may be because as of yet he's one of the few not in my lynch mob).

I will read the points against me thoroughly and I'll answer whatever I can.