Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[Rogue Shenanigans]

Will the rest of the town please forgive me in sparing them 5 pages of debate over a choice that was stated unimportant by the mod.

I disagree that Occam was fishing. Or at least fishing WELL. He was just uselessly speculating on the setup and voicing his thoughts.

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Mod-Edit Votecount 1-1

Rogue Shenanigans - 2 (Korts, freeko)
Occam - 2 (Rhinox, BSG)
Korts - 2 (Rogue Shenanigans, Prom King)
MonkeyMan - 1 (Raider)
BSG - 1 (Kiro)
Prom King - 1 (Occam)

Not Voting - Spambot, Lunar_Tick, MonkeyMan

With 12 left, 7 to lynch.

[Occam]

It's printed right up there. And you missed it. The only way how you could have missed it is if you didn't read it. And that's scummy.

No, it really isn't. And like I said - I probably did read it - last night. And when I couldn't post right away, I probably forgot. It's really not that important and I really think you're trying to make something out of this that really isn't there. I don't even see the point of it anymore. I doubt anyone else does either.

Besides, I find it very scummy that you posted without knowing the exact details.

Umm... why? That's not scummy, it's a mistake. Those are two totally different things. Like I said, please tell me what advantage I would have in doing that on purpose? It doesn't make any sense.

Then the rolefishing thing, it's not a defence when you say 'it isn't fishing'. Please say why you don't see it as fishing.

Ok - uh - at the most it's role speculation, not fishing, and those are two totally different things. I also never asked him to elaborate, which is kind of a requirement for fishing.

[freeko]

I think its the easiest place for a wolf to go looking for some sheep if you ask me. I mean they could come up from above and maybe jump too far and end up going down the cliff themselves if we went that way. Though I certainly dont much care for the forest myself, meh.

I will be the first to preemtively say.. ITS A TRAP!

[Korts]

Vote: Korts

Gut feeling for now based on his first reaction.

Gut feelings are generally subconsciously recognized tells. Can you elaborate on this, or were you just jumping on the biggest wagon?

Precisely. It's printed right up there. And you missed it. The only way how you could have missed it is if you didn't read it. And that's scummy.
Besides, I find it very scummy that you posted without knowing the exact details.

Then the rolefishing thing, it's not a defence when you say 'it isn't fishing'. Please say why you don't see it as fishing.

I agree that Occam was lightly fishing and his defense was worthless, but reading the first quoted paragraph, that is a big fallacy there. You say that it is scummy not to have read properly?

[raider8169]

I agree that Occam was lightly fishing and his defense was worthless, but reading the first quoted paragraph, that is a big fallacy there. You say that it is scummy not to have read properly?

I agree, I have read a few things as town or scum and mis read it and was lynched or killed for it. It happens but once pointed out it should be corrected.

[Occam]

And it has been. And I thank you for pointing it out. But it's still not scummy.

For trying to make a misread look scummy -

unvote - vote: BSG

[Kiro]

It's bad to forget or not read some of the rules, but I think this case felt more like an unintentional error than a scummy action because it was an early Day 1 comment. Still, I don't like how Occam responded to raider's question. Stop worrying about the path we took and trying to speculate which one you would have chosen. The choice today was not deemed as important so it probably does not affect daytime scumhunting which is the goal every game.

I think BSG's interpretation that Occam was trying to rolefish is wrong. It was not a direct question to RS and RS would almost certainly not say anything even if his role PM mentioned something about it. Feels like you're trying to pin something on someone that is really not a big deal. I can leave my vote here for the time being.

Also, I don't understand what the deal with Korts is. I wasn't around for whatever initial posts were made before they were deleted. So carrying over those deleted votes again doesn't make sense to me. I don't see anything with his random vote so was there something from before?

[raider8169]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

[Rogue Shenanigans]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

Korts claimed scum.

Quicklynch go!

[Korts]

Yes, and RS counterclaimed

[Rhinox]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

Korts claimed scum.

Quicklynch go!

mwahaha!

dies of laughter, its now night 1

...

in all seriousness, RS started a bandwagon on Korts and said something to the tune of "yay! bandwagon time" so I responded with a "you're right!" and put the second vote on RS... I don't remember anything else.

[freeko]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

Where did something get deleted? I am missing something here?

[BSG]

Call it what you want, speculating, set-up discussion or rolefishing. Either way, he was talking about a role which could be in this game. And what would town gain from talking about possible roles? It will only out said role if it's present in the game. This will only help scum.
But if anyone can show me how it's good for town to discuss a possible role, then I'm willing to drop this.

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

And I think that this answers post 26 as well.

Strange that you voted me after two players pointed something out, which you already mentioned. Why didn't you vote me sooner?

[Rogue Shenanigans]

Was anything important said in the comments that were deleted?

Where did something get deleted? I am missing something here?

The site went down. When it came up again (couple days later), there was a window of a couple of hours before mith shat in the nest. The posts from those couple of hours were lost.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Prom King

I always hated the popular guys...

[raider8169]

Call it what you want, speculating, set-up discussion or rolefishing. Either way, he was talking about a role which could be in this game. And what would town gain from talking about possible roles? It will only out said role if it's present in the game. This will only help scum.
But if anyone can show me how it's good for town to discuss a possible role, then I'm willing to drop this.

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

And I think that this answers post 26 as well.

Strange that you voted me after two players pointed something out, which you already mentioned. Why didn't you vote me sooner?

Role speculation could be good but there has to be solid information to go off from first. As right now we know nothing outside our own roles it is a bad idea. Maybe someone's role is affected but the first choice however there is no way we would know unless someone says something. I do not see that happening as that would make them a target and we do not know what is going to happen by the pick of what direction we will take. To much is unknown for role speculation to be a good idea at the moment.

[Occam]

A. It wasn't even intended as role speculation. It was off the cuff. Additionally, why would that be a role if all it takes is one person - any person - to vote in order to choose the path? You really think I'd try to get someone's role out of them when it says right above that it doesn't matter who posts the vote - which quite clearly contradicts the likelihood of that being a role? No, CLEARLY the only thing that makes sense is that was not aware of that rule at the time that I posted (whether it was because I forgot about it or simply missed it).

B. Your point about missing a rule being scummy is invalid as it's just as likely something town would do inadvertently (which is the case here) as it is something scum would do intentionally - in fact I would argue strongly that it would be a mistake someone of either alignment could make rather that something someone would do on purpose.

C. I voted you because you continued (and indeed to continue) to push a weak point past reason.

[raider8169]

B. Your point about missing a rule being scummy is invalid as it's just as likely something town would do inadvertently (which is the case here) as it is something scum would do intentionally - in fact I would argue strongly that it would be a mistake someone of either alignment could make rather that something someone would do on purpose.

I agree with this as I have miss read a rule or something and acted differently then I would have had I read it correctly.

[Lunar_Tick]

I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice. Even though it is day one, surely we can find something better to talk about.

[raider8169]

I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice. Even though it is day one, surely we can find something better to talk about.

You said we like you had something better to talk about yet you didnt mention it in your post. The clearly random choice is causing disscussion which is good. Why try to stop it?

[Rhinox]

unvote, vote Lunar Tick

To give him something to talk about

[BSG]

Post 41. A
You didn't know yet that the first who would bold a path, would decide the road. At this point, you speculated about a possible role, which could have been true for you at that point. So in the case of not knowing what was going on, who would gain more from your role speculation?

B
Did you read my reason?

My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.

C
Post 24 was my latest post yesterday. You had post 26, with no vote. Korts and Raider come in the discussion. Post 30 is your next post, with a vote. My question was why you waited with your vote. I have no idea what you read as my question.

[Occam]

You didn't know yet that the first who would bold a path, would decide the road. At this point, you speculated about a possible role, which could have been true for you at that point. So in the case of not knowing what was going on, who would gain more from your role speculation?

My point is that you seem to both doubt that I actually didn't know the rule, and imply that I was rolefishing or speculating - and those two are not compatible.

B. Yes, I read your reason and responded to it. It's a long-winded, poorly drawn conclusion you make. That's like saying: automobile's pollute. People drive them. Therefore, people intend to do harm to the environment. My causing confusion may have been a byproduct but it was neither intentional nor was it suspicious. I was the one that was confused, after all.

C. I suppose it's because, over the HOUR between those two posts, I thought about it, and said, hey, that deserves a vote. I don't see what you're trying to get at here.

[Korts]

I can't particularly relate to this discussion on rolefishing, which I don't think Occam was doing to an extent harmful to town anyway; BSG however does have a point about Occam voting him only after he found some support in raider and me.

I still would like our Prom King to answer when he gets back to the game, though.

[freeko]

A. It wasn't even intended as role speculation. It was off the cuff. Additionally, why would that be a role if all it takes is one person - any person - to vote in order to choose the path? You really think I'd try to get someone's role out of them when it says right above that it doesn't matter who posts the vote - which quite clearly contradicts the likelihood of that being a role? No, CLEARLY the only thing that makes sense is that was not aware of that rule at the time that I posted (whether it was because I forgot about it or simply missed it).

B. Your point about missing a rule being scummy is invalid as it's just as likely something town would do inadvertently (which is the case here) as it is something scum would do intentionally - in fact I would argue strongly that it would be a mistake someone of either alignment could make rather that something someone would do on purpose.

C. I voted you because you continued (and indeed to continue) to push a weak point past reason.

Points A and B that are made here are WIFOM? I am still on the newer side of things, so I am not entirely sure how I should interpret this all.