Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[Juls]

I made two points about you in my long post at the beginning of the day.

1) Unvoting then revoting MonkeyMan when there was a potential he could be telling the truth. You based it on flavor which I found suspicious.

2) You chose to watch without any regard to what anyone else said about it.

Since that post Vi has made good points about you being on every bandwagon and also that you possibly spilled some information about "sheep". This makes me think that you are a wolf and you believe the townies are sheep for some reason. I can totally see a scums role PM saying something to that effect. When I re-read your posts I also saw the bandwagon hopping more clearly.

With all that said, I also made a mental note of Rhinox's brevity in voting you. Up until this point I saw him as being rather thorough with his posts and analysis on the people he has voted. It struck me as odd.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-7

Korts - 4 (Vi, Rhinox, Juls, freeko)
Rhinox - 1 (Korts)
Freeko - 1 (BSG)

Not Voting - 5 (Megaflareon, Lunar_Tick, Sipylus, Raider)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Currently seeking a replacement for Lunar Tick, Sipylus, and Megaflareon, in that order.

Deadline is in 16 Days, in case you happen to be wondering.

[Vi]

You guys are going to make me fail my tests! (procrastination is scum!) So, I did a re-read of Korts. I didn't like some of his decisions early on and I can't ignore Vi's point about him possibly outting himself and being a bandwagon whore. I am still not convinced of the masons but I am willing to accept the

possibility

of it being true. With that said,

Unvote, Vote: Korts (L-3)

This seems weak, like you'd much rather be beating the merchants around BUT

ooo look shiny wagon!

*follows the shiny thing*

----

Ok someone explain the korts bandwagon. I dont recall Korts doing anything that deserved to be lynched.

RTFP

Right now I think either Freeko or Vi are scum. Im

sure

the flavor is that one wants to make all the money for themselves or something and when no one is looking will take out the other person. I do not know which one and I have been back and forth between the two alot.

This warrants an

OMGUS: raider

And I'm not talking about a vote.

Not only are you saying one of us HAS to be scum, but you're going so far as to fabricate flavor to support it.
(This is similar to what Juls is doing, yes.)

---

You seem to have 5 people on your list of suitable lynches (6 if you count Der Hammer ).

*Korts
*Juls
*Someone yet to be determined (currently looking at Rhinox and raider; I'd like to see replacements before going further with this because that's 33% of the other players unaccounted for)

'Better?

---

Despite your usual verbosity you just jump on my wagon with an "oh yes, Korts is obvscum" comment.

This is actually true. 'Not entirely sure what this means per se.

[freeko]

FFS are there even enough people playing the game to secure a lynch right now? This is pretty pointless if we cant even get to 6 people for a lynch. Yay way too many inactive players in this game.

[Vi]

FFS are there even enough people playing the game to secure a lynch right now?

There are, barely.

@mod: Look at that last vote count again.

o i c

~Fixed, thanks

[raider8169]

RTFP

Thanks, I read that before but I didnt think it was enough for a vote. Will look more into it.

This warrants an

OMGUS: raider

And I'm not talking about a vote.

Not only are you saying one of us HAS to be scum, but you're going so far as to fabricate flavor to support it.
(This is similar to what Juls is doing, yes.)

You are right, the flavor is nothing but a guess if I were to be true. It means nothing and right now I have nothing to back up what I think. I guess its one of those I got my eye on you things but that also goes for everyone as anyone could be the scum.

One thing I hate with so many replacements is that we are losing any focus on them because they are not posting and scum can slip right by. Granted they could also be town, more less venting is all.

[Korts]

RS's posts on Page 1 look seriously sketchy to me - the immediate explanation after posting his path choice followed by the bandwagon "random" on Korts. I obviously wasn't there for the post loss, so maybe someone can tell me if that was originally more random than it looks. I'm not sure what to make of 25 either.

There was some downtime on the server where BSG's post with a random vote on me was lost; he "accused" me of being responsible and I'm fairly sure that was the basis of the wagon on me. I don't see how the early wagon on me could be not random.

Korts seems reasonable early on, though he also jumps on the L_T wagon at the first opportunity. And then he claims the world is fogging up in 101, when Occam begins to question said wagon.

The game was slowly stalling for lack of leads; I didn't see any reason not to push an even vaguely scummy wagon.

When Prom King softclaimed, Korts immediately jumped to the conclusion of having found a scumpair. I wish Mafia was that easy; you should know it's not.
Basically everything about Korts's reaction to Prom King + freeko looks opportunistic to me, to save time...

Ok, fair enough. I see where you would percieve my play that way. Here's my thought process for then: Prom King was heavily hinting at a masonship, being blatantly obvious about it. My feeling was that he would outright claim if he wasn't preparing a fakeclaim and leaving some wiggle room for details. Couple that with his level of contribution (non-existent) and his refusal to address points against him and I think my suspicion was well-founded.

Right on the next wagon and driving it to a lynch.

(MonkeyMan wagon)

He was scummy; not only unhelpful but trying to scrape a lynch on Lunar Tick when that wagon was clearly a simple springboard for discussion. I believe he was the best lynch at that point, and there was no case on anyone else that compared to the one on him (claimed masons excepted).

THIS is interesting. Did you seriously think until me and freeko claimed that all the Townies were sheep? Excoos me for being incredulous here. With no sample Townie PM to base your judgment on, this either means your role is Sheep and your role PM has no indication that anyone else in the caravan is human, OR you have no idea who's in the Town because you're not one of them.

I am a sheep and I didn't have anything to imply that not every townie would be that. In fact I don't have anything solid now, either. MM was neutral, and the two of you (Vi, freeko) may still be scum together.

I can fullclaim if the majority of town wants me to, but I wouldn't want to, yet.

And... an L-2 vote to throw on the pile. My, my, mymymy.

The game was stalling pretty fast, and mostly due to PK's inactivity. If you are holding this against me as a major point, you are being way too obvious about this wagon.

The wagon on me: on a reread, Juls and freeko's votes are about equally suspicious, with freeko's claim making him less so, but Rhinox's vote seems more like eager scum trying to get a vote in before it becomes too suspicious, especially since he barely makes a point on me.

unvote, vote: Rhinox

Opportunism is a solid tell.

[Vi]

Korts, I acknowledge I wasn't here before I replaced in, but the last time I saw someone hop onto a wagon to try to get the game to go someplace, that person was scum. (JDodge and afatchic are the scum in this case)

I am a sheep and I didn't have anything to imply that not every townie would be that. In fact I don't have anything solid now, either. MM was neutral, and the two of you (Vi, freeko) may still be scum together.

How is this not completely cut down by MonkeyMan's flip and the Neighbor claims? Are you suggesting that all Townies are sheep, and all humans are neutral or scum?

I'm somewhat interested in what kind of power role a sheep could be, but I think it can wait a little longer.
I'm not interested in moving my vote though.

[Rhinox]

unvote, vote: Rhinox

Opportunism is a solid tell.

So is OMGUS!

wait... lets try that again...

unvote, vote: Rhinox

Opportunism is a solid tell.

Its awfully opportunistic to vote someone for being opportunistic, no?

One more time?

unvote, vote: Rhinox

Opportunism is a solid tell.

Lies.

Now for the "playing it straight" answer:

unvote, vote: Rhinox

Opportunism is a solid tell.

My post 420 is actually an extension of post 419, I just didn't put the EBWOP at the top. So I was still being vebose. I voted you for the point Vi made about you slipping up and calling MM a sheep - I thought he had a good point - and for a bit of pressure, and Vi wanted to wagon you, so I thought I would see where it went. Plus, Vi said you claimed scum. Can't argue with that

So you've said you're a sheep. Don't know why you would assume all townspeople were sheep, but that goes for whether you're actually town or scum. I don't think you need to claim - no sense in outing your super-sheep powers. Vi's expressed curiousity in what power you might have is noted.

unvote

Back to BSG... BSG, why did you want to know freeko's flavor name? I was assuming you were asking for him to give his role name, I.E. mason or neighbor, to see if it was consistent with what Vi said.

I did say the best way to start conversation is to toss your votes around. However that is not how I like to play. I do not concidered it pro-town or anti-town as that is just how I play.

1) I have been lynched for it as town and scum but that is just how I like to play. I like to think I become more useful as the days goes on as I have bandwagons to look into and more general information on the other players.

We are on day 2 and you have placed 8 votes. To me that says you are just trying to lynch anyone.

2) Is 8 votes excessive or are you just not sure who should be lynched?

If I vote someone I fully intend to see that person lynched or gain some valuable information from it. It sounds like you are trying to twist my playstyle around to sound like my play is always scummy however I play based on the information I have. Alot of new information has come about in the last couple of days.

3) We do not need to rush things.

1) I don't know how well you keep tabs on your ongoings in which you're deceased in, but I replaced into one of them where you were lynched D1 as scum. I'm exploring a bit of this meta connection since you're playstyle seems similar to that game.

I dislike the excuse "well I've been lynched for my playstyle as town as scum, so you should view it as a null tell because its just how I play", because you're basically admitting that you're aware your playstyle comes across as scummy to people, and you've done nothing to change it. Thus, when you're town, your playstyle is anti-town and detrimental to your win-condition if it gets you lynched and you have the self-awareness to forsee that your playstyle could get you lynched. My logic says, then, that you shouldn't act this way as town (because it would be anti-town and against your win condition), so the only other option is you're scum. I can also conclude that you only act that way as town, then, so you can have a meta defense when you want to lurk as scum (such as the game I replaced into).

2) Thats quite a loaded question. I don't think 8 votes are excessive, and yes I am currently unsure of who would be today's best lynch. But I like to use my vote to help determine that in addition to questions and logic - especially early in the game when there is less to go on and I'm more unsure than later in the game. I think if you meta my past games, you'll see that I throw my vote more early in the game, and later in the game I'm more sure of who to vote for and don't throw my vote around as much. Furthermore, when I'm throwing my vote around, I usually either ask questions/make comments along with my vote, intended to invoke a response, or I explain my vote afterwards when the utility of my vote has worn off (such as with my votes on LT, and now korts in this game). I also have a personal goal of always knowing who my top suspect is, so I should always be able to have my vote on someone. Sometimes that gets me into trouble when I try to hard to find a reason to vote someone. Its also not a rule, so I don't follow it religously. Thats why I call it a goal - its more like a destination of how I would ultimately like to play all the time as town.

3) I'm not intending to rush anything, and I don't know what gives you that idea... ok, maybe after Vi replaced in and I was really confident in lynching freeko, but that was based on a misunderstanding of what I thought freeko said was in his role. Other than that, what gives you the idea that I'm in any hurry to rush things along?

[freeko]

I think the flavor of this game has Korts being a "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will. Again its flavor speculation, which got me into a great deal of trouble before, so who knows. I could be overthinking things. Though Korts is the ONLY person to refer to anyone or anything as sheep in this game.

[Vi]

My post 420 is actually an extension of post 419, I just didn't put the EBWOP at the top. So I was still being vebose. I voted you for the point Vi made about you slipping up and calling MM a sheep - I thought he had a good point - and for a bit of pressure, and Vi wanted to wagon you, so I thought I would see where it went. Plus, Vi said you claimed scum. Can't argue with that

(...)

unvote

Y'know, on most non-kiddie bicycles backpedaling doesn't actually do anything.

Back to BSG... BSG, why did you want to know freeko's flavor name? I was assuming you were asking for him to give his role name, I.E. mason or neighbor, to see if it was consistent with what Vi said.

In light of Rhinox 416, again, backpedaling.

Vi's expressed curiousity in what power you might have is noted.

Wow, what a horribly weak excuse for an attack. You'll notice I didn't ask for a claim; I was just amused by the potential for a Sheep role.

[Rhinox]

Wow, what a horribly weak excuse for an attack. You'll notice I didn't ask for a claim; I was just amused by the potential for a Sheep role.

So... let me know then when you're actually being atacked for it

Your overreaction to my statement that WASN'T an attack, is now also noted.

Y'know, on most non-kiddie bicycles backpedaling doesn't actually do anything.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In light of Rhinox 416, again, backpedaling.

No, I don't view it as backpedalling... excuse me for humoring your attempt at a wagon on Korts. If you'll notice, I was expressing concerns about BSG before jumping on the wagon... Did you really think I just thought "Oh forget it, Vi's going to let me get away jumping on Korts wagon so we can lynch him and no one will notice I didn't support my vote lololololllollololl" without intending to return to my concerns about BSG at some point (either after the korts wagon lost its utility, or korts really did claim scum and we lynched him )? You've been in too many of my completed games (3/5) for me to think you don't know better than that...

Though Korts is the ONLY person to refer to anyone or anything as sheep in this game.

NPC Jebus was sheep in the mod N0 flavorkill...

[Rhinox]

EBWOP:

@Vi: forgot to add... so what are your intentions with the korts wagon... do you actually find him scummy, or were you just hunting for reactions?

[freeko]

VI: Be very well aware that there are NO vanilla roles in this game. It was mentioned by the mod before that there are roles that may appear to be vanilla , but are anything but. I believe this point came up when MM went and fakeclaimed that he was vanilla early in the game. This was right after the cutscene where Korts dropped the hammer on MM on the first page for easy reading.

[freeko]

Oh my..

That should be Vi.. Sorry about that.

[raider8169]

Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.

[Rhinox]

Oh my..

That should be Vi.. Sorry about that.

hehe... lets see how freeko gets daykilled

Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.

hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.

[raider8169]

Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.

hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.

Its not so much rolefishing as I dont care what abilities he has just that he is a sheep, but you are right someone could be trying to kill the sheep but unless that is in someones win condition but I do not think that to be the case. I would have to role claim to explain more and not sure if people wish for me to do that. It would explain why I have more information day 2 then I did day one.

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

[Rhinox]

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

I never really said you only take the popular side...

But since we've already had the conversation about your playstyle, you taking korts side now can be seen as you trying to WIFOM us into thinking you're town because you're not taking the popular side, so... Don't know if you were intending to shoot down my meta observation by saying that just now, or if it was more of a "by the way..." type comment to just take a jab at me.

[raider8169]

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

I never really said you only take the popular side...

But since we've already had the conversation about your playstyle, you taking korts side now can be seen as you trying to WIFOM us into thinking you're town because you're not taking the popular side, so... Don't know if you were intending to shoot down my meta observation by saying that just now, or if it was more of a "by the way..." type comment to just take a jab at me.

I did not mean it as a jab or anything I was just pointing out. You are right it could WIFOM. Its just that I have more of a reason to take Korts side, plus if I was a wolf wouldnt it be easier to join the bandwagon and lynch him or something?

[Juls]

This seems weak, like you'd much rather be beating the merchants around BUT ooo look shiny wagon! *follows the shiny thing*

This was meant to be a jab at me but I have to be honest, I LOL'd. I laughed because I always use this against my husband when he isn't paying attention to what I am saying or changes the conversation...I say "did you see a shiny penny or something?" LOL.

Sorry...mafia game...focus.

Well since the wagon appears to have deteriorated, I wanted to try to put a little pressure on Korts for his statements and see how he would react. I knew your

scumbuddy

merchant would hop on the wagon and an L-2 would be sufficient pressure for Korts to at least explain some of his actions. I did think you had a good catch and I wanted to see what his explanation would be.

And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.

That was me.

I'm going to

unvote

for now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.

The events of the past two days have left me more confused now than ever. What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.

[Vi]

Your overreaction to my statement that WASN'T an attack, is now also noted.

What is this, Technicality Day? And I wasn't told ahead of time? How dare you slight me in such a way.
Your notation of my notation of your notation is, quite frankly,

noted

.

No, I don't view it as backpedalling... excuse me for humoring your attempt at a wagon on Korts.

"Humoring my attempt", right.
Also lol, you ARE backpedaling with regards to assuming BSG's motives.

That said, BSG needs to exist.

@Vi: forgot to add... so what are your intentions with the korts wagon... do you actually find him scummy, or were you just hunting for reactions?

You've been in too many of my completed games to not know better than to ask.
Of course I find Korts scummy. And you too

-----

VI

Oh my..

That should be Vi.. Sorry about that.

Daykill: freeko

Nonetheless...

Be very well aware that there are NO vanilla roles in this game. It was mentioned by the mod before that there are roles that may appear to be vanilla , but are anything but. I believe this point came up when MM went and fakeclaimed that he was vanilla early in the game. This was right after the cutscene where Korts dropped the hammer on MM on the first page for easy reading.

I know. Um... what does this have to do with anything?

-----

I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.

Why?
(Also, it occurs to me that you people set a

sheep

up to watch camp last night.)

-----

hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.

Super-awesome flavor-based suspicion

go

~

-----

This was meant to be a jab at me but I have to be honest, I LOL'd. I laughed because I always use this against

my husband

when he isn't paying attention to what I am saying or changes the conversation...I say "did you see a shiny penny or something?" LOL.

O.O
I'm so used to being older than everyone I've met thus far on the Internet that it still surprises me to hear about married couples.

Well since the wagon appears to have deteriorated, I wanted to try to put a little pressure on Korts for his statements and see how he would react.

This excuse is getting a little worn out, isn't it?

What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.

This is the most hilariously bad thing I've read all game. (Prom King's posts were bad, but not hilarious.)

The confusion started because 1) I clarified obvious misconceptions about my role and freeko's, 2) I disrupted the mislynch that you had going, and 3) I began pursuing other people, which was against the status quo of the whole day.

That's what I should be doing when I replace in for someone who's about to be lynched for being a fool.

The part about you only knowing me as a scumbuddy is an ironic irrelevant detail, because that would mean that you in particular should know that I was a cream puff in Mafia 87. (Yes, Rhinox had me on meta. Though from D2 until Jah00do replaced in the game really was boring as what-have-you; I don't think I would have done much better as Town.)

Meanwhile, I think you're obvscum - partly for trying to push that on me after coming off a wagon I started, partly for Kiro's votes, and partly for what armlx noticed about me in Mafia 87 - you just

happen

to get the third vote on the wagon these days.

Korts - 4 (Vi, Rhinox, Juls, freeko)

'sup

Rhinox - 3 (Vi, Freeko, Korts)

Wait, you're not voting here. Is it Rhinox that kept you away? Hmm... oh wait.

Freeko - 2 (Rhinox, BSG)

Vote: freeko

There

we are.

Prom King - 4 (BSG, Juls, Rhinox, Korts)

Oh wait, it's Rhinox this time. But he's sketch too. And look, you're right before him.
(Also, every time I see Prom King in Jebus's green italics I misread it as "Porn King". I have no idea why; I'm not like that.)

------
~~~
------

raider seems to be taking Korts's side on this for some role-based reason. While I have some amount of skepticism about the matter, I'm more comfortable with raider than Rhinox, frankly, so

Unvote: Korts

Vote: Juls

(L-5)

[freeko]

I'm going to unvote for now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.

Where did he claim? I must have missed something.

[Vi]

I'm going to unvote for now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.

Where did he claim? I must have missed something.

Baa-a-a-a~

[freeko]

Oh, that im a sheep weaksauce? Yeah great. Thats a load of crap. I fail to see how being a sheep has any bearing on the game at all. Especially with how it relates to the supposed night watch that Korts did on Night 1.

Why not tell us what your role is?

[Vi]

Um, freeko dearest, you DO realize where that whole "slip" thing came from, right?