Oh and
This is not a time to "monkey" around. Get it his name has monkey in it...
What would their be to discuss? At this point it would be random guess. Based on the choices I think he picked the safest path plus we have a goal to get to the tree!freeko wrote:vote : rogue shenanigansfor choosing a path without asking anyone else. Maybe it is you who hangs from the lynching tree?
What would you have picked them?Occam wrote:Hmm, guess I missed that.
@BSG - Fishing is alright. Get's boring after a couple hours. And no, that wasn't rolefishing - as you can see, I missed the part about the first person who posts picks the way. I would have preferred to talk about it, especially since I now know that RS did it intentionally. Is is scummy? I'm not sure. But I wish it had happened differently. There probably wouldn't have been too much to discuss, but at least one other opinion on the matter would have been nice.
I agree, I have read a few things as town or scum and mis read it and was lynched or killed for it. It happens but once pointed out it should be corrected.Korts wrote:I agree that Occam was lightly fishing and his defense was worthless, but reading the first quoted paragraph, that is a big fallacy there. You say that it is scummy not to have read properly?
Role speculation could be good but there has to be solid information to go off from first. As right now we know nothing outside our own roles it is a bad idea. Maybe someone's role is affected but the first choice however there is no way we would know unless someone says something. I do not see that happening as that would make them a target and we do not know what is going to happen by the pick of what direction we will take. To much is unknown for role speculation to be a good idea at the moment.BSG wrote:Call it what you want, speculating, set-up discussion or rolefishing. Either way, he was talking about a role which could be in this game. And what would town gain from talking about possible roles? It will only out said role if it's present in the game. This will only help scum.
But if anyone can show me how it's good for town to discuss a possible role, then I'm willing to drop this.
My reason why I find it scummy that he didn't read the game/didn't know the exact details of the game. It's simple. When you don't know what has been said, you can't help us with your opinion. You have an other view of this game than the players who have read the game. By posting while thinking in your view, it will only cause confusion by the players with the other view. Causing confusion isn't something a town player should do. That's why I find it scummy.
And I think that this answers post 26 as well.
Strange that you voted me after two players pointed something out, which you already mentioned. Why didn't you vote me sooner?
I agree with this as I have miss read a rule or something and acted differently then I would have had I read it correctly.Occam wrote:B. Your point about missing a rule being scummy is invalid as it's just as likely something town would do inadvertently (which is the case here) as it is something scum would do intentionally - in fact I would argue strongly that it would be a mistake someone of either alignment could make rather that something someone would do on purpose.
You said we like you had something better to talk about yet you didnt mention it in your post. The clearly random choice is causing disscussion which is good. Why try to stop it?Lunar_Tick wrote:I find it really annoying that you guys are making so much of a fuss about a clearly random, at least for now, choice. Even though it is day one, surely we can find something better to talk about.
Yeah...I guess I am just a little slow. I didnt even realize it was a heart until you said something.Rogue Shenanigans wrote:Yes... there is. Enough of a bad read to be a place to take off my random korts vote.raider8169 wrote:It there more of a reason for your vote then post 66?Rogue Shenanigans wrote:unvote,vote:Lunar_Tick
We can lynch korts-scum tommorow. <3
Any reason for thinking korts is scum?
No reason to think Korts is scum, my little love heart was a way of showing I was joking...
Its just my way of making sure my "random" vote does not become a real vote and someone get lynched for it. Or atleast if it was to become a real vote I would make sure it is known and not just use the random vote as a resting place for my vote. I dislike it when people let their random vote ride on the same person for the entire day and at the end of the day no one really knows where that person stands.Korts wrote:Arrrgh. I hate the phrase "the random voting stage is over" so very much. Why do you think it is over, raider? What defines "random voting stage"? Where is the distinction between "random voting stage" and non-"random voting stage"? Please note that these questions have no bearing at all on the game itself and are purely posed simply to make people realize that such statements of a seperate hypothetical "random" stage are stupid.
Voting someone to get more information is not a bad thing and I do not consider that a random vote as you have intentions with them other then getting the game started.freeko wrote:I think it would be an obvious point to be bringing up the next day were the parked vote to stay on someone an entire day.
Though I disagree with this whole random voting thing being over with. I could very well make another vote with the sole intention of gaining information. This vote me not be who I think is who I want to be lynched, but it would be more along the line of a random vote that is used to start the game rolling. Then again, thats just my opinion.
The first choice does not have a huge impact as was said by the mod. The future choice should be made as a group as I think everyone agrees with. The ripple has not formed yet but it looks like you are trying to create it.freeko wrote:There is an old japanese saying that goes something like this.
Even the greatest of Tsunamis all startt as just a simple ripple.
I really dont know or care what the exact wording is, for all I know it could be all your base are belongs to us. The long and short of it is this, that no matter the decision every one that is made will have a consequence tied into it. Maybe not an immediate one, but one down the road. It could be no different than looking at interactions on day one when it is day three. Seeing as how you know how some people are aligned at this point, you know how true or false some of these statements are. Maybe in the end it is a completely inconsequential decision. Only one way to find out. That is to play the game out. and see what happens.
If there was proof this would be much easier. There is not going to be solid proof otherwise everyone would be voting or not voting the person depending on what proof is known.Rhinox wrote:What makes you so sure the lynching LT would be a mislynch? What evidence is there that LT is town?False dilemma? Neither, actually, just trying to prevent a mislynch.
This is not the information that should come out during the first day though. Not only were you forced to claim but you gave your mason partner away too. Of course your mason partner needs to confirm it.freeko wrote:Or we are 2 masons? Maybe now you understand why I was exploring another linked pair possibility. Because I have a link with another player in this game.
At least your little wagon got you some information.
I have never heard of a mason role where one can confirm the other but the other can not confirm the one. I think I am missing something but not sure what. Maybe a reread over the weekend will help.Occam wrote:HUH?freek wrote: Raider, my mason partner gave ME away actually. We are actually what looks to be 3rd party masons. Our victory condition (at least mine) is simply to get to the town alive on day 6. I also have the town win condition of winning when all scum are found. It is unknown to me what PK's alignment is.
unvote - vote: freeko
That makes no sense for a variety of reasons - your win condition is to be alive on day 6? Mine doesn't say anything about ME being alive on day 6 - nor does it specifically mention "day 6".
Freek and PK are either third-party or scum.
If you need a night to prove your claim then you have to tell us what it is you will do. If you are not saying what you will do because you will get nk'd then how will that change anything if you get lynched. If you really are town you would explain what you could do. Draw the nk and hope that someone can save you. Otherwise you will get lynched and you can only blame yourself.MonkeyMan576 wrote:Nope, all I'm asking for is a chance to prove my role. I lied because I didn't want to get NK'd. If I full claim I'll probably get night killed. It's my fault I lied, it's the towns fault if they lynch me without giving me a chance to prove my role.
This would make sense but if the person that watches is scum I assume that means they will be able to kill someone. Never had to have someone stand watch at night so I am assumeing the normal scum type things are going to be changed.
I dont like this, what information would "you" get that would make their lynches worth it? This seems more like a case just to lynch someone instead of lynching scum. What did they do that you do not see a town player doing?freeko wrote:The reason you vote for PK is that I cannot confirm PK while PK can confirm me. I also got NOTHING from PK in the night discussion, which worries me slightly. Either he is going to be replaced, or he is hiding something from me.
So my scumdar goes something like this. I will gain information by the lynching of RS,Korts, or PK. Obviously maybe the replacement for RS could offer up something, but until then... Maybe I am way off but those are the ones that stick out to me as doing something that I do not particularly see as being a town player.
You really think other people would let you move along with the game? Why can we not pick the most townie like person to watch the following night and they can confirm that Korts was telling the truth or lieing.freeko wrote:IF player X is town aligned, then I am obviously wrong. THEN I admit my mistake and move along with the game.
So explain how lynching him would be the best thing for town to do? He did the same thing RS did it seems.freeko wrote:Korts, if you read the flavor of his lynching, It only required 6 of us (or one less than normal) to lynch him. At least that is what it looked like to me. It just seems that you are doing nothing but making decisions in this game that are totally one sided. You are thinking about yourself and not the good of the "town" as a whole, I think.
Are you asking everyone to just let you watch tonight and test out your theory?Rhinox wrote:I do have a theory, but it involves someone I know 100% is town to watch tonight. Since I'm the only player I know 100% is town, that means I would have to watch tonight. I'll talk more about my theory tomorrow, if I watch and have information that can confirm or disprove my theory.
In the meantime, lets actually try to find some scum, eh? Going to go analyze some players induvidually, PbPa style.
Prom King has yet to respond to the claimed mason part if I am not mistaken.Rhinox wrote:and... QFT. Well, minus the lynching freeko part. I don't think freeko is scum, I just think he's completely off track with his scum hunting. If he were scum, with a faked mason claim, I would expect him to start lurking to hide behind his facade of innocence... oh hey, kinda like what Prom King is doingKorts wrote:I have half a mind to just lynch freeko for all the misinterpretations and bullshit. Also why do I get the feeling that only three or four of us are talking? There should be ten of us still alive and pointing fingers for fuckssake.
You said Occam can clear you? I dont recall reading that. How do you know that he could clear you?freeko wrote:Did you even pay attention to day 1 at all? Or did you just jump in and not bother to ready any of it?
Anyways. My speculation is that PK is trying to hide something from me. He did not participate in the discussion at all. All he really did was force me into tipping my hand and making me need to claim my role all the more relevant to my survival. The problem always has been that I cannot confirm him, but he can confurm me. Then I recall saying that Occam can clear us with an ability he has, and shockingly he is the one who goes bye-bye during the night phase (presumably NK'd?) though its not official yet it seems as his role has not been revealed. So I am now quite pissed off because 2 of the people who would be able to "help" me are gone from the game in one way or another and the other has not bothered to do anything for about 10 days, though PK is still supposedly in the game.
Out of all the opitions I think this one makes the most sense to me. The next being both of them town. Why else could one confirm the other and not get it in return. Maybe he was hoping that freeko would confirm him anyways even if it wasnt in his PM. For that matter if is was in one person PM and not the others that should mean something. Reguardless PK needs to post.Juls wrote:(This is a rushed post, I have to leave in 4 minutes for class)Rhinox wrote:PK is scum, freeko is town. My feelings, Its possible, but unlikely. Here's why: PK voluntarily confirmed freeko. It wouldn't make sense for scum-PK to do that. Instead, PK could have hoped freeko was lynched, and shown up as mason. Then later in the game, if/when PK was found suspicious, he could have claimed to be freeko's mason partner, and there would have been no counter claim.
I disagree with this a little. I think it would more advantageous for PK to claim while freeko is still alive so that freeko CAN confirm him. He probably didn't count on people questioning his alignment and that is why he claimed so early. I would have to go back and read but it was PK that claimed, not freeko. Plus, freeko has clearly stated that he doesn't know PK's alignment and PK seems to be avoiding the question. The way I look at it, PK is unconfirmed. Freeko is unconfirmed as well but I would tend to believe him more than PK because he brought up the alignment question. I say we treat them as unconfirmed. If they are the best to lynch they are the best to lynch. I would say a PK death that flips mason confirms freeko's alignment but I am not sure I would say the same the opposite way.
(Sorry if this makes no sense, if it is unclear I will clarify tonight when I get home)
By no means am I saying his is scum. It just made the most sense to be as why else could they not confirm each other. PK needs to post and help this make sense. He was replaced out of his other game so its very possible he has left the site.Rhinox wrote:So you're saying that just because PK isn't confirmed, that automatically makes him scum, because otherwise the role doesn't make sense? Isn't that kinda a form of trying to outguess the mod? If thats the case, why would PK have bothered to confirm freeko, unless he didn't know freeko couldn't confirm him. But if thats the case, how does freeko know PK can confirm him?
I would expect the role PMs to be consistent, like:
PK, you are scum/town. you are mason with freeko, and you know freeko's allignment, but he doesn't know yours; freeko, you are town, and a mason with PK, and you don't know PK's allignment, but he knows yours
-or-
PK, you are scum/town. you are mason with freeko, and you know freeko's allignment; freeko, you are town, and a mason with PK, and you don't know PK's allignment.
Of course, I guess that means I'm sorta playing the outguessing the mod game as well...
Korts could be hiding something, only he really knows. However its just not worth lynching him over to find out if he was telling the truth. The person who watches, tonight if there is a watch, might have a choice and Korts might not of. WIFOM, I guess but I am more interested in figuring out what PK has to say.freeko wrote:Which is exactly why I think Korts is hiding something.
Probable WIFOM alert.
If Occam is dead, we would/should know about that minor detail. If he is alive, then wtf happened to the NK?
With these wild mishmashing of roles, it would not suprise me to see a Commuter/X asa possibility fir Occam. That is speculating on the small chance that he may still be alive in the game.
Yes it was directed towards me, and thank you.freeko wrote:Who is that directed towards? I assume me since you had quoted me earlier. If so, then here is my answer. I want him replaced. hopefully his replace metn could do.. SOMETHING in the game where PK did nothing in our discussion thread in the last game night. Along with obviously being absent for this game day as well. As an extension of this, I would not entirely mind him getting lynched, as I cannot cofirm his alignment. The way the pm I have is worded is so that I am to be suspicious of his alignment right from the start. Though I think it best that we waited for a replacement to shed some light on the situation. I know its a slight contradiction, I really woudl like more information, and I get it either way.raider8169 wrote: What are your feelings towards PK?
Yeah, I am on the same page. I am not positive that Occam is not gone from the game but it sort of make sense.Juls wrote:For the sake of talking...I want to reiterate that I am very suspicious of Prom King and that I think Occam is not gone from the game yet due to the fact that his role was not revealed.
(Sorry I don't have much else to say, I really want to hear from PK or PK's replacement more than anything)
Happy Birthday Korts!
QFTJuls wrote:And I don't want to abandon this game. It has some interesting dynamics to it and I would hate for Jebus to have wasted it.
My cameo appearance? I guess you can see it like that. I do not know where I stand in this. I think either Vi or freeko is scum. I do not feel there is enough to warent a lynch either way. I have a guess as to what will be claimed as my role hints something to that effect but not sure if it is referenceing you or someone else or if it means nothing at all. Not sure if I should say it as it may hurt the person I just called out or it might give someone an idea.Vi wrote:From as far as I've gotten in my reread, I'm getting suspicious of raider for hanging out on the periphery of the game and generally being dispensable. So his cameo appearance in this argument is noted.
I was suspicious of PK and you however it moved to freeko during the aurgument.Vi wrote:raider: We were told what kind of person our companion was in our Role PMs. I could answer my own question just as easily, but I'm not going to.
Who ARE you suspicious of, raider? (Sorry if you said this earlier, but again, I'm not done with my reread.)
I dont try to be an active lurker but I do come across like that. So I guess it could be considered an accurate description but I try to be more then that. I guess you need to play a few games with me to see that. My problem is that I miss the little things other people pick up on. Some people have a knack for it, I am not one of those people. As far as a legitimate strategy I would have to say sure, I have yet to be replaced in any game I have been in. One thing that gets me is when someone has an argument I stay out of it until I decide which side I think it right.Rhinox wrote:@Raider: I've been trying to get a read on you all game... I get the feeling you play as sort of an active lurker... would you say that is an accurate description of your playstyle, and do you think that is a legitimate strategy to use as town?
I did say the best way to start conversation is to toss your votes around. However that is not how I like to play. I do not concidered it pro-town or anti-town as that is just how I play. I have been lynched for it as town and scum but that is just how I like to play. I like to think I become more useful as the days goes on as I have bandwagons to look into and more general information on the other players. We are on day 2 and you have placed 8 votes. To me that says you are just trying to lynch anyone. Is 8 votes excessive or are you just not sure who should be lynched? If I vote someone I fully intend to see that person lynched or gain some valuable information from it. It sounds like you are trying to twist my playstyle around to sound like my play is always scummy however I play based on the information I have. Alot of new information has come about in the last couple of days. We do not need to rush things.But, you've only placed 2 votes the entire game, both on the same person: your random on monkeyman, and then the vote on the monkeyman wagon. Its seems to me like you're not following your own advice - you say the way to get people talking and figure out the best player to lynch is to throw your vote around, but you haven't done that at all. Should I infer, then, that you're intentionally playing in a way to not generate discussion to figure out the best player to lynch?
The popular side most likely also reflects the side of the person who is telling the truth or has more things to back up their side of the aurgument. Look at the bandwagon on Korts, 3 posts in a row, three votes. OMG everyone outside of the first vote is taking the popular side so they must be scum. Ignoring the fact that people take different amounts of time to pick a side. Right now I am sitting on the fence, is there a problem with not always wanting to jump on someone and lynch them before enough information is gathered to make an educated vote?Pretty much sounds like scum sitting back to choose the popular side. Noted.
Thanks, I read that before but I didnt think it was enough for a vote. Will look more into it.Vi wrote:RTFP
You are right, the flavor is nothing but a guess if I were to be true. It means nothing and right now I have nothing to back up what I think. I guess its one of those I got my eye on you things but that also goes for everyone as anyone could be the scum.Vi wrote:This warrants anOMGUS: raider
And I'm not talking about a vote.
Not only are you saying one of us HAS to be scum, but you're going so far as to fabricate flavor to support it.
(This is similar to what Juls is doing, yes.)
Its not so much rolefishing as I dont care what abilities he has just that he is a sheep, but you are right someone could be trying to kill the sheep but unless that is in someones win condition but I do not think that to be the case. I would have to role claim to explain more and not sure if people wish for me to do that. It would explain why I have more information day 2 then I did day one.Rhinox wrote:hmmm... don't know what to make of this post. On the surface, its rolefishing. However, he might be completely honest here... wolves might be told to go after the sheep, so someone with a role as wolf would both know that sheep exist, and suspect that sheep are town (assuming wolf would be a scum role)... The "mafia" in this game might be a pack of wolves, or there might be a different mafia group, and a lone wolf sk type who's wincon is to eliminate the sheep... I remember someone talking about wolves before, going to go see if I can find out who.Raider wrote:Is anyone else a sheep? I knew from the start there was a sheep as my role hinted towards that. I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that. I have reason to believe that the sheep is also town.
I did not mean it as a jab or anything I was just pointing out. You are right it could WIFOM. Its just that I have more of a reason to take Korts side, plus if I was a wolf wouldnt it be easier to join the bandwagon and lynch him or something?Rhinox wrote:I never really said you only take the popular side...raider wrote: And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.
But since we've already had the conversation about your playstyle, you taking korts side now can be seen as you trying to WIFOM us into thinking you're town because you're not taking the popular side, so... Don't know if you were intending to shoot down my meta observation by saying that just now, or if it was more of a "by the way..." type comment to just take a jab at me.
I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.Juls wrote:That was me.raider 441 wrote:And if you remember you said I only take the popular side in this case I am taking korts side.
I'm going tounvotefor now. I'm intrigued that raider is backing up Korts claim.
The events of the past two days have left me more confused now than ever. What is most troubling is this confusion started when Vi entered the game. I have only played as Vi's scumbuddy and confusion is obviously a scum tactic.
It seemed to fit the picture I was expecting regarding someone having a sheep role. I knew that Korts said something sheep like before but I took that originally as he was trying to draw out the sheep.VI wrote:Why?raider 439 wrote:
I sort of went into that before thinking that Freeko was a sheep or going to claim that.
(Also, it occurs to me that you people set a sheep up to watch camp last night.)
I know there is a sheep in this game other then Jebus who died in the opening sceene. If no one else claims sheep then Korts is confirmed sheep. Confirming he is a sheep though does not make him any less town or scum. However, I believe the sheep role to be town. I can not confirm it, unfortunatly.freeko wrote:And this is possible how?raider wrote: I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.
@Korts: here is a shocker, who did I want lynched at the beginning of this day? Oh, was that you? I think it was. Dont even cry about me being on your bandwagon. I want you lynched bottom line. Now with this horsecrap about you being a sheep. WHY would you take the night watch if you were a sheep? And to think that you also ninja'd that watch right in the middle of the discussion of who would be the best candidate for it. At this point I am also 100% sure you are lying about something.
Get right on that. I fail to see wht the hell a sheep is in this game. If anything is crying out horsecrap, it is this weakass sheep claim. At the least explain to us exactly what a sheep is. And why the hell you chose to be the watch at night KNOWING you are a sheep.Korts wrote: I can fullclaim if the majority of town wants me to, but I wouldn't want to, yet.
Without quoting It said 2. One of which was killed off in the opening sceene, for those that dont remember it was revealed as a sheep. So yes, there should be one other sheep.Rhinox wrote:crap... missed the last page...
So just to confirm, your role proves the existance of just one other sheep, and not more? Seems odd to me, but I guess its possible.Raider wrote:I think I need to toss in their that as long as no one counter claims sheep I am backing up his claim.
I dont have a name per say more of a description, not sure if that makes sense or not. I guess it could be a name but it could fall under either category.BSG wrote: So Juls, Raider and Korts, could you please state if your role name is mentioned in your PM or not?
Not sure what else you would like me to say, is there something you would like me to answer about?Is there nothing else you can say regarding post 439, Raider?What was it?Raider wrote:I knew that Korts said something sheep like before...
I confirmed his sheep claim because I know there is another sheep. I also think the role is town based. I think this would be stupid to keep to myself giving I could possibly save a town role(as I said I think he is town).@Raider
If Korts confirmed claim doesn't make him less town/scum, then why did you confirm a sheep claim?
I also don't understand the part of a post restriction mentioned in post 455
QFTI don't like quote wars...
This is part of why I am looking towards you as possible scum. I have said my case as to why I think Kort is town and all the people that have not acted apon it are the people I am looking towards as possible scum. I can understand why people are not taking what I am saying as fact because I am sure I do not seem like the most townie person to them and that Korts does not either. Also yes your vote did seem to made with the intention of lynching korts.Rhinox wrote:I want everyone to think very carefully and ask themselves this question: Did my vote on Korts really appear to be made with the intention of lynching korts? Vi, look at my votes in mafia 87, raider, you have that newbie game that just finished to look at, juls, do you still have the link to that game we were both in that you replaced out of? Everyone else, I've already linked Meerkat manor mafia. You guys can pretty much look at every vote I've ever made... When I'm ready to lynch someone, I make my intentions known.
Jebus, the night 0 kill was a sheep, that is the other sheep role. Does that answer your question?Rhinox wrote:Very interesting comment here... Raider, feel like commenting on your use of the word 'another' here?Raider wrote:Not sure how I can enlighten you anymore then I already have. There isanothersheep role. I am 100% positive on that. Korts claimed sheep with no counterclaim so I have no reason to not believe his claim. I also think the sheep role is town and thought that as of the start of day 2.
I sort of went into this above but its more your stance and things to reflect your opinion of lynching korts.Rhinox wrote:What have I said?raider wrote:Rhinox has said some things that has made me wonder if he is just trying to get anyone lynched. TBH I really wish we had those replacements in. They hold alot of information that could really push the game in the right direction.
They could counter claim as say they sheep. Meaning that either Korts of the replacement lied.Rhinox wrote:Also, what makes you think the replacements have roles that could give us any information we don't already have?