NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

hi guys

-f

[Cephrir]

Brian, I think you're trying too hard.

[Cephrir]

On the other hand, the difference between this Brian and the one that was recently scum is pretty striking.

[Cephrir]

Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.

Discuss.

[Cephrir]

Good observation!

[Cephrir]

Try again.

Okay,

Unvote

VOTE: Maracabd

Brian Skies is town.

Can you link me to the game that you played with Brian?

geists is town.

Why?

F16 is town.

This I agree with. This is probably one of the few games I obvtowned during RVS.

Generic is town.

Why?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31155

The other two just seem genuinely at ease. Gut/RVS caveats apply obviously.

Okay, UnvoteVOTE: Maracabd

Try once more. I'm more obvtown than mastin during gears this game.

No, you're not, and I can say that without looking at what you're referencing, but so far so good.

[Cephrir]

Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.

Discuss.

At least two of them are not Town.

On pure odds I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you.

So, the first person to correctly guess what I imagine empires reaction was when he saw what random.org assigned me gets a special super secret^tm prize.

I'd appreciate the guesses in gifs by the way!

VOTE: casso king of the seals

Two quote stripers is not better than one:(

Would this be accurate?

That is pretty much how I imagine it! (Although he *might* have she'd a few tears)

Since that made me laugh, I'm forgiving the earlier slight of voting me and awarding you with the awesome prize of being my town buddy! Don't you feel special?

This is not working for me.

Oh my gods the quote stripes are already starting on page two you guys are going to give me a headache.

Also, Brian's not trying too hard but he feels nervous like he doesn't know how to enter.

Hey Tammy, does this make him scum?

What a phenomenal question >.<

[Cephrir]

Official town block application form v1

I,

Cephrir

, am applying to MC Maraca's AwesomeSauce Town Block. My townreads are:

geists, because I didn't even know who they were and I have never town read Nati before;
Brian Skies, because meta, regardless of your assertions to the contrary;
F-16, because have you read his posts;

I think I am a good fit for the townblock because

let's be real, Nacho will know I'm town before the day is out anyway, even if he's scum. And the same probably goes for you.

Attached is my payment,

the key to Scumrir's cage

, made payable to MC Maraca.

[Cephrir]

In all fairness, MC is obvtown.

Yeah, I think I'm just about prepared to admit this.

My paranoia towards Cabd might literally not be possible to overcome, though.

[Cephrir]

pedit3: Ceph, don't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you.

Maybe I can do that. We'll see.

[Cephrir]

Yuck.

VOTE: Stuffed Crust

[Cephrir]

Yep, you got me.

[Cephrir]

GM: I didn't realize you were thinking of two in particular. But, I also don't try to beg people to say things they obviously want to say. Call it a pet peeve.

[Cephrir]

Oh boy, Ms Marangal has arrived.

How long will it take her to stop voting me this time?

[Cephrir]

Oh boy, Ms Marangal has arrived.

How long will it take her to stop voting me this time?

Maybe, if you learned how to make yourself Obv town, I wouldn't be voting you!

If I ever obvtown this early, I'm probably scum.

It's like you forget about the past every time I start another game with you.

[Cephrir]

I only have one game that I can actually reference RE your play

and you defs weren't obv. town early there

yes that is exactly what I just finished telling you

good job

Also, wrong, you have two

p-edit yes that is the game i was referring to

[Cephrir]

All I'm saying is

If you find yourself consistently voting me out of the gate regardless of my alignment or yours

Maybe you should step back and realize you have issues with my style?

[Cephrir]

Whatever, you'll get talked out of it later. Just strikes me as silly is all.

[Cephrir]

but, you don't think there was a possibility that I've already thought about that?

I kinda don't actually.

[Cephrir]

Then I'd have to hypothesize that you're just fucking with me?

[Cephrir]

Did it work?

(I imagine not, as I feel distinctly unsorted)

P-edit: Let's see. At first I was disliking KoreanBBQ, but they picked up a little. I'm not giving GM a pass like certain people, she could be. I dislike pitoli and Tammy so far, but someone brought up that this is normal for the former and I have more confidence in my ability to read the latter if I let her be her for a while. Stuffed Crust sucks so far, but low sample size.

I'm decidedly un-concrete on everything at present, though.

[Cephrir]

F-16 I skipped his entire posts for now.

That's not very nice!

Cephrir, what didn't you like about Tammy? Did you play with her before?

Open 527. I can't be arsed to link it.

Too upset about something unrelated to make a coherent post at present.

[Cephrir]

I don't feel like there really is that much anti-Brian sentiment flying around?

If you want me to step out of your line of questioning, just say the word.

[Cephrir]

Cephir, pray tell what you didn't like from our slot.

The placement of your early votes for one.

Also, as absurd as it sounds, post 37 I think it was?

[Cephrir]

Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.

Discuss.

Why geists and Brian town at this point?

I think I've since explained this adequately, but why didn't you ask me why I thought Generic was town? I have not explained that adequately to date, and in fact it was so weak that I no longer feel that way.

[Cephrir]

Cephir, pray tell what you didn't like from our slot.

The placement of your early votes for one.

Also, as absurd as it sounds, post 37 I think it was?

I know, but deal with it.

My gut is better at mafia than my head so I've decided to listen to it more.

[Cephrir]

1. Ffery. Let's make the same deal that F-16 and I made, minus the suspecting part.

These deals are just really, really odd.

[Cephrir]

Brian Skies is town.
geists is town.
F16 is town.
Generic is town.

Discuss.

Why geists and Brian town at this point?

I think I've since explained this adequately, but why didn't you ask me why I thought Generic was town? I have not explained that adequately to date, and in fact it was so weak that I no longer feel that way.

I asked you about geists because normally ffery paranoia is your thing.
I asked you about Brian because the read required him not picking up on F-16 town, which seemed strange.
I didn't ask you about Generic town because your answer wouldn't figure into my read on him much/help me out with my read on you at all, but I probably should have. Why generic town and why don't you feel that way anymore?

Eh, I think I liked 33, (and incidentally, later on, 83 and 92), but it wasn't a big deal. I changed my mind because it just wasn't nearly enough for such a blanket statement. I think I wanted one more person to call town because I was trying to make waves with post 39.

Correction: ffery paranoia is my thing sometimes, except when it's not. I think I'm roughly 50/50 on calling her obvtown vs. being paranoid for 2-3 days. The best correlate I've noticed is the volume and density/length of her posting.

[Cephrir]

1. Ffery. Let's make the same deal that F-16 and I made, minus the suspecting part.

These deals are just really, really odd.

What's odd about them?

Well...like...that just isn't how you're supposed to play this game! I don't think it's especially telling about any of you but it makes me squirm uncomfortably anyway.

[Cephrir]

You or GiF ever going to push a case on me?

Why, you worried?

[Cephrir]

Wow, I just realized, I never mocked Cabd for hydra slipping in post 64. He deserves it for being so high and mighty about the subject! So, ha.

[Cephrir]

TBH scumreading me from anyone is probably a town tell right now

I'm not terribly into this game and I really don't have time to play it at all this week but I'm trying

[Cephrir]

I'll cry too

For reals

[Cephrir]

Can confirm, am basically not scumhunting

I have technically been reading everyone's posts and am caught up, but I don't have the energy for an analytical eye just yet

[Cephrir]

You'll get the answer to that when I finally show up to play. There willbe read lists and quote stripes and it will be grand.

But short answer off the top of my head, they are pretty OK right now.

[Cephrir]

Maybe I'll get around to this tomorrow if I feel like procrastinating.

In the meantime kindly stop bloody posting.

[Cephrir]

~wall~

I'm not going to bother quoting them individually, but there were quite a few things I liked in here.

The only other thing I care about through page 20 really is Tammy declaring herself obvtown despite not being obvtown. But I didn't come away with too much. Parts felt genuine and I liked the paranoia with respect to Mara (did she read Cabd's posts, though?); but other times it just got over the top and unreasonable.

On to page 21.

~Bulba

[Cephrir]

Oh, two other things I forgot to mention only one of which is important: goodmorning's admittedly two posts suck; and my eyes glaze over every time I see a Generic post, but that might be partially due to my sleep deprivation.

[Cephrir]

For the record, I think Tammy's kinda off this game.

ate you all fucking scum?

Like this has been the most lighthearted and happy I have been to enter a game in a really long fucking time. I've been looking forward to this game and happy as fuck I drew town, there is no bloody way I look off and you all are just ruining this for me,

IM NOT BOTING. READ MY GODDAMN FUCKING POSTS THAT IS LITERALLYME HAVING A GOOD FUCKING TOME.

YOU KNOW WHAT


FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF

You're Obv-towness Shot up like, 1000000000% during that fight, and 10000000000000% more right after it

I agree with the latter part of MCM's post here actually, so ignore my mixed feelings.

[Cephrir]

WHAT IS UPPPP? SSK HERE REPLACING ROFLWAFFLE.

Geists=Town
Generic=Town
F-16=Town
Tammy=Uber Town
Bro=Maybe Scum
MC=Maybe Scum
Pitoli=maybe scum
BBQ=scum

Vote Korean BBQ

[redacted] but I dislike this.

Oh yay I have a read.

vote mafiassk

That feels like a really awkward entrance. I arrived to the party late and I'm daunted by having to play ctach up. He comes in and immediately puts his pawns in place. That doesn't feel much like a town entrance to me.

Agreed, but his explanation did clear it up for me somewhat.

I'm a fan of DOMO snap voting on that without having really read.

[Cephrir]

I'm also curious why Brian is sitting on his RVS vote 20+ pages in.

This was oddly selective and passive-aggressive!

Suxtosuck.

And this. So what, anyone who dares to scumread you based on gut sucks? Is that the implication? I'd expect a townie to just say what you said about reading the game because we're all awesome people, and leave it at that, because that's enough to kill the gut read I picked up. But you add a sly little insult, which for me increses the chances of you being scum, because you're not happy with just defending yourself, you want to discredit your attacker too.

Gut wise this does not feel like 165 DOMOscum, but then again I was his scumbuddy in that game.

I think I'll be able to read this pretty well.

[Cephrir]

As of page 18, I'm surprised I haven't gathered many votes considering how I was active overall, but never posted here. Also i'm not filling that townbloc application because I know you'll obvtown me anyways. ffery and Nat's posts feel off so far, but it's not that strong, on the other hand F-16 accusing Gen of being agreeable while being agreeable himself is giving me bad vibes

Vote: F-16

Going on...

I guess this is classic Sakura moonlogic.

I don't actually know how to read her.

warning: lazy as fuck catchup post so I probably missed a lot of shit

22 Sakura scum. I'm having a shitton of trouble believing this post came from the same person who always preaches "reasonless RVs are bad", and MC Maraca hadn't posted yet, so I don't see how it's not an RV.
47 giving me weird vibes. it seems really really serious compared to the rest of the thread. not sure how comfortable I feel with that given he's townreading geists for being "at ease". however this is gut and looking back on it later I think this makes him seem town. it seems he legitimately wants to get the game going already
55 tammy town
70 goodmorning town
139 I agree MC seems town
173 I'm liking BRO's willingness to work with a mutual townread here. however, I still have paranoia from imperishable night. he doesn't seem like he's trolling as much here, which may be a good sign
184 goodmorning even more town
238 MC town
256 give me bourbon plz

this is really weird for me since I still feel like a lot of the game is in the fucking around stage. anyone who knows me knows that I generally get going immediately. oh well
I'm also not liking Ceph atm, but it's mostly gut and I can't be assed to go back and find anything specific ._.

284 I'm kind of ass backwards skipping over a lot of specific shit here, but I'm especially curious about this
312 this, I grok. fuck it, BRO can go into the townpile
326 not liking this argument. Brian hasn't even posted in like forever, so he didn't really have much of a chance to push anyone else at all 0.0
340

Except where it doesn't make sense, I keep my stances pretty transparent.

huh
362 what the fuck is that vote. he posts all these giant reads walls then votes someone who he hasn't even mentioned? dafuq
365 ok finally smth apparent I noticed about Cephrir - he didn't out his opinion the deals when the first one came up and all of a sudden he does it on this one? it's convenient how it happens to be when people are saying Nacho looks scummy. this makes me think this read was based off convenience and not legitimate scumhunting
415 huh I'm seeing what you all are about Generic - in fast and furious he seemed pretty adamant about getting Telo lynched
445 Generic can be town too
451 "hey I'm just going to buddy everyone who's scumreading me so I won't get found out"
463 what the hell is that I thought for some reason maraca was townreading Tammy I need to go back and look at this again
546 I don't like this on a playstyle level. in practice it's probably not alignment indicative, but read the fucking game make areal vote

haven't seen anything at all since 546. probably bc I'm being a lazy fuck atm. I'll just wing it from here and hope for the best

other things of note, KoreanBBQ has a shitton of content and there's nothing in there that gave me a townread on them. feeling kind of icky about them atm

This is awesome. You win town points.

[Cephrir]

Speaking of pieguy, his read on Sakura looks too easy, but maybe it's because I'm already biased.

...What?

@F16: the first part was due to this

At least two of them are not Town.

I liked this stance and how she's being upfront about questioning shit that she thinks is incorrect

the second part was this

On pure odds I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you.
1. It's not a stat course.
2. Odds distract people.
3. Unlikely =/= impossible, and it's not even that unlikely.

it's another stance that shows she's holding true to her beliefs

my read on BRO is a mixture of both of those things. there was another game we played where I had him as null-town almost entirely based off gut and he was scum (thankfully on d2 I turned that shit right around). some of the stuff he's done in this game, combined with the fact that it doesn't seem to match that game, makes me feel somewhat comfortable with him as town atm

generally it means that, at the time of that post, I have that person as town for various reasons. it can be bc of a certain post or a culmination of a bunch of things up to a certain post

in fast and furious Generic was town. he had a scumread on Telo, he wasn't backing down, and he seemed set on getting her lynched (eventually she got lynched and she was town). so I agree that the fact that he's more agreeable here seems odd

Ugh. I get opposite conclusions about these exact lines. THis post also contains a useless truism.

[Cephrir]

Pieguyn, I disagree with your read on GoodMorning. How does being "upfront about questioning stuff she disagrees with" necessarily town? I find it just as likely scum would question stuff to look like town. I also don't find "holding true to her beliefs" a strong reason to read her as town.

Also, why did you like her stance of saying that at least two of me, Generic, Geists, and Brian are not town? You seem to have put Geists as town, me and Generic as probably town, and Brian as null which is quite far off from her stance.

Second part yes, I agree with this. First part my objection was different but I'm still glad you objected.

No I wasn't. (Point still stands that your scumreads suck, though.)

I thought you were joking about that cause I had you in there @_@

in that case, do you think my null reads are generally accurate?

Pieguyn, I disagree with your read on GoodMorning. How does being "upfront about questioning stuff she disagrees with" necessarily town? I find it just as likely scum would question stuff to look like town. I also don't find "holding true to her beliefs" a strong reason to read her as town.

I know some players would probably do this as scum, but I like the way she did it here. it seemed really genuine for some reason and it had the sort of defiance I attribute more to a town mindset. this line in particular sold this for me

1. It's not a stat course.

she could be scum but I'm not seeing it atm. I'll rethink this read more if a lot of people are saying I'm in the wrong tho

Also, why did you like her stance of saying that at least two of me, Generic, Geists, and Brian are not town? You seem to have put Geists as town, me and Generic as probably town, and Brian as null which is quite far off from her stance.

I disagree with her stance, but I like the fact that she made that stance in the first place. I think I mostly liked how blunt she was about it.

It's not a stats course? THAT'S the line you're going with? xD

I feel like you're overjustifying something you could have just said 'gut' to. THen again someone is sitting there needling you over it.

I thought you were joking about that cause I had you in there @_@

I thought I expressed my townread on Ceph and Sakura quite clearly.
So yeah, I'm townreading all your scumreads. Your scumreads suck.

in that case, do you think my null reads are generally accurate?

Well, first of all, "null reads" kinda mean the reads that are not accurate and are in state of waffling/not enough info
But I guess I can comment on some of those.

MafiaSSK ↓. I didn't like his readlists. But then he only has like, 5 posts. So it's slight down.
Desperado ↑. It's 100% gut.
SC ↓. I already explained this.

Why the hell are you townreading me again?

Aw man I got a sick read. GiF is scum.

vote korean

And then you let this go immediately? Huh?

wall o' thor

Could it be? DO I actually like a Thor post? Call that rapture guy, I think the world is ending.

@DOMO - also, you are slowing and examinging a fearsome wagon of...four voters! GAH! Hatred!

And yet very DOMO somehow.

[Cephrir]

DOMO,

Welcome to my townbloc.

THe bumbling does seem like something I'd do as town, and I like it for that reason, but I'm surprised anyone else does.

Actually, my intention was to show both you and mara that saying "how dare you not recognize I'm obvtown" is

fucking bullshit

from anyone spouting it about themselves and that it's worthless when you've made it such a part of you that you have to do it as both alignments.

This entire pissing contest is just getting really old.

If GM is scum this game I will eat my hat.

If GM is scum this game I will eat my hat.

Please refer to my comprehensive reads list.

I know something youuuuuuuu don't~

Do tell.

VOTE: Talah

Nope. Nice fish though!

I'm pretty sure I know what you're saying and I feel the need to inform you that you're a moron for implying this so heavily under no pressure unless it's a stupid gambit. For a smart guy you can be real dumb sometimes.

new plan:

1. don't read
2. hammer first l-1 wagon
3. ???
4. profit

Who's this joker and what has he done with Desperado?

Korean's ISO is a massive ball of fluff. So many posts with so little content.
korean, I'm assuming your ISO is mostly nero?

This is pretty funny. I only have like 14 fluff posts but anyways, this comes across as angry/OMGUSy since I already had a slight scum read on the slot. I mean, when I said that I didn’t like Domo his TWO in games posts were “Really? 17 pages already?” and “I have no idea what's going on. Is it still RVS?”

You're joking, right? I can remember almost nothing substantial you've said in your umpteen posts.

You just claimed scum when I asked you for your reasoning of why you jumped on my wagon and you were all like "what? who?"

vote:SSK

Oh, you did ask? Mostly gut. I was also, you know the third vote or L-8.
But I mean I went through a quick ISO glance as well to not find that much beneficial town content. You don't give substantial reasoning behind reads or votes. Your votes are too reactive.
If you see that as me claiming scum, cool stuff bro.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Cephrir]

You don't give substantial reasoning behind reads or votes.

Neither did yours

Your votes are too reactive.

So was mine, why didnt you question it?

Unvote
Vote: SSK

I have dived into your scum meta before, Sakura. You're not acting like that there. You seem town here, so of course a reactive vote wouldn't be as scummy for you. A reactive vote is cream on a cake.

You just claimed scum when I asked you for your reasoning of why you jumped on my wagon and you were all like "what? who?"

vote:SSK

Oh, you did ask? Mostly gut. I was also, you know the third vote or L-8.
But I mean I went through a quick ISO glance as well to not find that much beneficial town content. You don't give substantial reasoning behind reads or votes. Your votes are too reactive.
If you see that as me claiming scum, cool stuff bro.

Someone who hydras with Nati should at least vaguely understand that it's the timing and tempo of events in the game that explain GiF's votes.

It's one of Nat's worse traits.

Well your gut sucks.

You don't give substantial reasoning behind reads or votes.

but neither did you.

And I did give reasoning behind Gen.

This head has never put down a SRS vote until the vote on you.

If you think "not beneficial content" is a scum tell please explain why Domo's 413 and 546 were beneficial? What did pitoli post that was beneficial? What Stuffed Crust posted that was beneficial? What was beneficial from Desp and Talah?

'cause the reasoning that you are using applies to others as well so FMPOV it looks like you just hopping on a wagon and calling it a day.

Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell.
I like serious votes. But thanks to that explanation, I'll rescind my attack on your reasonless votes being scummy.
Fair points there.
Meh yeah. I guess I wasn't giving a wide enough scope. But as I said, it's mostly gut.

I have only been lynched as scum once. I got thrown off balance early by a huge swing of suspicion onto me (the reason, though not relevant, was me accidentally putting someone at L-1 on like page 4). In that game, I made a lot of posts like this one, I believe.

ahhh

I just...

Can't...

Nerotown

towntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntown

and the wagon is shit

and this argument between him and Gen is shit

and it needs to stop

now.

WHere on earth do you get this?

holy crap Cephrir

Ugh. I get opposite conclusions about these exact lines.

mind elaborating on this?

I don't think I need to anymore, as the point appears to be moot.

@ceph re sakura

Knowing that sak was away for irl reason, seeing someone putting sak in scumpile will make me immediately think that they're going for an easy target. That's what I was saying.

K.

Incoming: read list with no reasoning whatsoever because I shouldn't be here

[Cephrir]

TOWN
Domo
geists
MCM
F16
Tammy

LEAN TOWN
Brian Skies
pieguyn
Casso
Bro

DUNNO
talah
Generic
roflcopter
Sakura
SC
pitoli

SCUMMY
BBQ
Desperado
MafiaSSK

VOTE: SSK

[Cephrir]

I left her out deliberately

[Cephrir]

If I didn't leave her out, she'd be south of Desperado.

[Cephrir]

I know.

[Cephrir]

Unless you were referring to the post where I call you an idiot, in which case, good.

[Cephrir]

i'm in favor of not reading what i missed at this time

if koreanbbq flips scum i say we lynch cephrir next

Counterpoint: how about we lynch your face instead

p.s. Why aren't you obvtown yet

[Cephrir]

Your posts sound to me like scum talking to someone they know is town.

Last sentence of 896 is really weird.

901 is awkward as a back off. "Oh yeah that was hypocritical nvm" => why aren't you willing to pursue it anyway if hypocrisy isn't a scumtell. Last sentence reminded me of off blance scumrir but I don't know if I can explain how so.

p-edit: I'm trying to

[Cephrir]

Oooooh he scaring me off voting him with a big scary townread retraction when he didn't even say the townread existed

Hold me, Tammy, I'm scared

[Cephrir]

Nat, what is your read on MafiaSSK? MafiaSSK, same question. From what I gathered, you two played a lot of games together.

Cephrir, in your 961, you say that I am "needling" Pieguyn over his read on GoodMorning which implies a negative tone based on your choice of word "needling." On the other hand, earlier in the post, you say you were glad that I objected to Pieguyn's read of GoodMorning. Why a negative tone towards something that you were glad happened?

In all the back-and-forth's I think Roflcopter is slipping through the gaps. I find him scummy. It boils down to the fact that Rofl is much more involved and passionate about the game as town than as scum. Information through lots of posts is good and pro-town. It is a natural scum-move to feign tiredness and groan at the massive amount of content that was generated. This especially holds true for players like Rofl who strongly prefer playing town to scum. There are a few others that are doing this but Rofl sticks out. I'll get back to this after reviewing Rofl's meta when I find a block of time.

VOTE: Roflcopter

I don't think "needling" is negative, it's just what was happening.

Agrred on rofl, but I was gonna give him more time.

[Cephrir]

I don't care if you read day 1, I just care if you start playing proactively.

[Cephrir]

I don't care if you read day 1, I just care if you start playing proactively.

i proactively called you bbq's scumbuddy already

I have memories of calling you obvtown in the only game we've been in together for any length of time

But I have no recollection of what game it was

[Cephrir]

Looks like the former.

It's okay, Domo is town, so they get to do that.

This wagon is okay but I still think mine is better.

p-edit: well, fine. You're boring.

[Cephrir]

Oh, sorry, I meant the latter.

[Cephrir]

If you're looking for a good or followable case from me, you may be disappointed to learn I don't actually have one. I know I'm disappointed.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, what's your case on MafiaSSK?

@Sakura: I'd probably not like it! Anyways, what's your case on SSK?

Varsoon seems really interested in SSK here. It feels like a desire to latch on to a compelling case.

The first time I find "SSK" in varsoon's ISO is here...

Then give me a rundown of the game so far, your reads and why they stand that way, and then vote for Korean BBQ or MafiaSSK.

Yeah I'm really not convinced by varsoon's sincerity here.

vote stuffed crust

Could not agree more with this post.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: sc

We should probably lynch this today

[Cephrir]

I can't actually remember the last time I felt this good about a Day 1 vote.

[Cephrir]

That doesn't even make sense.

[Cephrir]

Scum would feel good about planting a vote on a townie, especially when said townie has exposed them but isn't credible enough to get others to listen.
That way, when I'm lynched, everyone can write me off, and scum gets a free pass into the future.
That's why scum would push my lynch and feel confident in it.
Makes plenty of sense.

-V

Even if I was scum, you wouldn't have exposed shit. All you've done is OMGUS me.

Oh, I always feel good about my votes on town when I'm scum, but such is not the case, and I feel far better about voting scum as town. Because it's harder and I rarely do it. It's a unique experience for me! Especially if I'm there for the catching rather than jumping on later. DOn't think that's actually ever happened.

VOTE: sc

We should probably lynch this today

Whaddya know, Cephrir is bandwagon hopping.

Whaddaya know, SSK is posturing to suspect me later.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: sc

We should probably lynch this today

Whaddya know, Cephrir is bandwagon hopping.

S'why it doesn't bother me all too much.

Although, I'm sure you feel relieved that your wagon has eased up.

Please, keep calling everyone scum.

That's doing you a lot of favors.

[Cephrir]

Awesome stuff. Yeah I'm happy with your play too.

Scum defence #14 - your play sucks.

[Cephrir]

all 2 of them

sue me

[Cephrir]

brilliant counterargument

please continue to regale me with you refreshing insight and protown perspective

[Cephrir]

your, shut up

[Cephrir]

Lol, k

[Cephrir]

Bro, you seem to be falling off your rocker.

[Cephrir]

No?

[Cephrir]

Hey yeah. Bro are you ignoring meta entirely? This Domo doesn't seem the same to me at all...

[Cephrir]

Town:

1. Tammy - More mara's read than mine.
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) -mostly cabd head; you should be ashamed I beat you to a reads list.
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) oh hey these scumfucks snuck into my townblock?
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - mara's read
11. BROseidon - I have my reasons
10. pieguyn - you're not nearly as innocent child status as i'd like though
19. Cephrir - Mara has him down as super duper town
18. DOMO - Meta; being scum with him in 165

Meh:

6. Generic- not as obvtown as I would have hoped, will make mara sort later
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.
8. MafiaSSK - the higher level of activity here as opposed to his past town games makes me wonder things.
15. Sakura Hana - Do something super town so I can put you up a rank please.
17. zMuffinMan- I can't read you for shit so I guess I'll just have to wait and see; nothing jumps out so far.

Not so Town:

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - Mara disagrees slightly
12. Brian Skies - The dismal amount of effort you're bringing here scares me.
20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - the lack of effort here is surprising me and actually kind of making me sad, worried the fuck out of me

In this game?

7. roflcopter - Bitching about large amounts of posts when that's how some players read each other won't get you anywhere
14. goodmorning - START DOING SHIT LIKE OMG
16. pitoli - SEE GOODMORNING

I'm kinda disappointed Mara has to be the one to read me, but I guess you've never actually had to read me before (almost), so you have some excuse.

20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific

i'm trying something new

~Quote tags fixed. (Empire)

Well, it blows.

Forgive me for assuming that from your pov stuffed crust's role is unknown. So once again depserado, why would you think my switch is bad? Do you know something I don't?

I lol'd. NY165 Domo was way more wishy washy than this and way less flippant. Definitely shaping up to be my One True Townread this game (Not giving you the title yet, but so far I'm 3 for 3 on these, maybe better if I'm forgetting a game)

My problem is that most of the town looking players are very good players (Cephrir, Pieguyn, Giests). I wouldn't put it past any of them to be capable of getting me to townread them as scum so I am not as complacent as I would be if I had townreads on players of average skill.

NY159: Rust – Things of note are the frequent use of language where he acts like he is forced to do stuff like “

If I were to pick a scum read based on my first skim through the thread, I'd say BC is looking pretty bad with zab showing up as scum, he tires very hard to distance himself from zab.

” DOMO’s ISO breakdown contain almost entirely information instead of analysis. He also postures with statements like “

I can move him into scum camp if these questions are answered unfavourably for him.

” He consistently complains about the thread moving faster than his other game which seems like an implicit excuse for inactivity stemming from guilt due to the lack of content. Some of his posts like 1080 come across as fake and a little too certain about his reads. The way he defends himself in 1261 is interesting by saying “

I don't see why that's scummy.

” Rev uses WIFOM in 1274 while admitting his mistakes “

But I can't blame you guys for giving me heat for it.

” He also again makes excuses for his actions saying “

Why am I still awake

”. Rev can be quite devious as shown in 1760 where he thanks scum for killing a player who had a large ISO to read making it easier for him to catch up. TheReverend can fake paranoia very well as evidenced by 1760 where he throws in caveats for his townreads by saying “

unless bussing

” or “

unless very good at playing scum.

” He undermines his reads several times as shown in 1770, “

I could be wrong, but I am not in any hurry to lynch him.

” He also postures a lot by making statements like “

Yeah I'm not gonna be on the PH wagon any time soon

” in essence declaring what he may or may not do. In 1806, he spends quite a while justifying his push rather than explain why his target is scummy. This shows that he is very concerned with how his pushes looks as opposed to actually finding scum and pushing them.

I am not sure what I found scummy in this game based on this. I must have made a mistake. I am going to look through his town games to come to some sort of conclusion.

I'm flattered, but I assure you, I'm shit at town. Can't scumhunt my way out of a paper bag, although I can townhunt decently I think. I really appreciate this analysis, both in terms of insight into Domo and your thought process. I am reassured about your scumhunting credentials, because these seem like smart things to pick up on slash I buy them. If that makes any sense.

[Cephrir]

Whaddaya know, SSK is posturing to suspect me later.

coming back to this, why did you say later in this phrase, cephrir?

Because...that's...what happened...???

[Cephrir]

chainsaw implies some sort of subtlety

It really doesn't

[Cephrir]

In my bok chainsawing is defending X by attacking his attacker, scum motivation or otherwise. The scum motivation is just a byproduct.

[Cephrir]

We're not lynching Domo today. Stoppit.

[Cephrir]

We're not lynching Domo today. Stoppit.

How about nope?
Don't like how much it feels like DOMO is flailing here.
B-sides, it's a polarizing conflict (DOMO v Desp) and there's a lot of information to be gained from putting votes there.
That alone lets me know scum is involved.


VOTE: Domo

I don't like how much you're scum~~~

[Cephrir]

Do I need to try building a damn case or something

That never works but like

Could we please just sheep me, like, once in my life?

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, that's not a very strong way to broker your wagon on me.

I've never been any good at this, so bear with me mmk

B-sides, I'm town, and you'd be really sad if I was gone.

lol

[Cephrir]

I'm not feeling great about Casso either at present, but my current vote is superior.

[Cephrir]

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

How else am I to interpret this? I keep looking at it and I'm seeing the same thing over and over. From a town pov, you would KNOW it is not a scumtell for you. "Don't think" is not the kind of language I expect any townie to use in this context.

You scumslipped imo.

I'm interested in how ffery interprets it.

I see what you're saying but personally eh.

[Cephrir]

I know I'm town but I don't think I'm likelier to pick up on crumbs as town than I am as scum.

Sorry I missed it, it didn't come up in pedit.

I don't buy it. I'd be a lot more assertive if someone was claiming something I just did as town was a scum tell. I have been in this very game. Yeah you're scum.

I'm not as assertive as you and Tammy are about my towniness. I don't think that me not picking up on crumbs is a scumtell or a town tell or why ffery was thinking that it was. It could be one of those scumtells that I don't know about, so it's not the type of thing I can reject outright. I don't think it is, though.

Like I said above, missing the crumbs almost pales compared to missing the effect the crumbs had on other players.

I flew by one, got FoSed for it, went back, over-estimated what it was about, tested that, and eventually had a working hypothesis. That was one ripple of many.

You didn't react to any of that.

And this is scummy because:
______________________

[Cephrir]

I would like each player that reacted to my fakeclaim to claim if they were playing along, or if they thought I was actually claiming masons, though.

Damn it Cabd. You keep doing these dumb things that don't make any sense and you're always lying.

Why do I keep believing you?

I'm so easy to troll.

My read list answers this question, and GM is once again scum.

@Cephrir:

are you still thinking it's SC

Yes. Have you been reading my posts?

[Cephrir]

and GM is once again scum.

I am townreading her regardless of my little antics; though. Explain your scumread thar?

Eh, it doesn't really exist, but I have no reason to think otherwise and I thought her few posts were underwhelming. We'll see when she acually shows up to play.

I know that your buddies have tried to quell the wagon without making it look like they're white-knighting you, but this train's got no brakes, Domo.

Your biggest mistake was swapping your vote to the perceived threat of Desperado, when I was the one who was really pushing your wagon.
Your voteswap back to me mirrors a lack of wanting to find scum. You've changed to self-survival mode.

Why would you care about your own survival, Domo?

Explain your vote on me, again?

P-EDIT: Delicious shit-stained fear.

-V

Nope. I refuse to believe town is this cocky.

Bolded is retarded. No one wants to be lynched day 1. And it's also pretty much totally baseless.

I can understand the desire to pressure me and garner alignment-based tells while I'm under pressure (what I assume the Desperado vote on me was for [if you somehow flip town, I'll be tying a noose for Desp next]).

However, legitimately thinking I'm scum and voting me due to that?

It's a waste of time and effort if you're town. If you're scum, it makes plenty'o'sense.

-V

Desperado?!?!? At least if you said me you'd be fucking consistent!

However, legitimately thinking I'm scum and voting me due to that?

What the eff are you talking about? Are you suggesting I should not have a legitamte scum read?

[if you somehow flip town, I'll be tying a noose for Desp next]).

Lining up mislynches are we?

this is so bad

but nacho's meek response to such a retarded accusation did not sit well with me either

This feels to me like town. It's not a slam dunk town tell obviously, but the fact he is not rigidly anti-DOMO and is also looking at the people I'm pointing at, this feels more town motivated than scum. Thus, it at least kills the scum read I picked up on. My townflip should incriminate you, not desperado.

Why is everyone voting this

I just

Don't

Understand

No, I'm saying that legitimately thinking/perpetuating the idea that I'm scum when you've got no evidence for it and haven't articulated a case for it is awkward. People typically pressure players they are suspicious of, and given responses, temper their reads. You're just going all-in without any of that.

FFS. There is no evidence on Day 1 of a normal game. You have been pressured. I for one have hated your reactions and I'm probably not the only one. Not to mention accusing someone of "going all in" when you appear massively overconfident Domo will flip scum (ludicrous, fyi) hurts.

[Cephrir]

Day 1, Votecount 31

DOMO (6)

-

BROseidon, Desperado, Sakura Hana, Stuffed Crust, Generic, pieguyn

KoreanBBQ (3)

-

MafiaSSK, Casso the King of Seals, roflcopter

Stuffed Crust (3)

-

Cephrir, KoreanBBQ, DOMO

roflcopter (1)

-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

MC Maraca (1)

-

pitoli

Generic (1)

-

goodmorning

Not Voting (5)

-

zMuffinMan, MC Maraca, Brian Skies, Tammy, geists

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 20th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-20 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Ms Marangal head of MC Maraca is V/LA for a week. Sakura Hana is V/LA until Monday.

You people are killing me. Seriously. Years off my life.

[Cephrir]

Don't worry, be happy!

[Cephrir]

I sure do miss having a vig kill, though.

p-edit: jesus shut up sc

[Cephrir]

ANSWER THE QUESTION, CEPHRIR

-V

In a world where you are inexplicably not scum I'd be looking at Desp and Casso next. The latter admittedly would mostly be a sheep. If you are indeed scum I'd have to rethink my naive scumlist in light of your flip. I think it would prove rather valuable.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and I'm still scumreading SSK too.

[Cephrir]

Gee thanks

How generous of you

[Cephrir]

One of DOMO and Desp is scum, I'm positive of that.

P-EDIT:

@DOMO:

The problem is that I'm town, and I sincerely believe that one or both of you and Desp are scum.
Of course I'm going to confidently push for what I believe in.

-V

...and then criticize others for doing the same

[Cephrir]

I don't care if I die in the process, I'll expose you and your scum-buddies.
I don't care if I look retarded or idiotic or whatever, I'm going to pin scum.
DOMO, I think you're scum. Your defense of yourself keeps pushing an offense of me, setting me up as some kind of opponent of yours. You're actively scumpainting me with your posts.
Instead of defending yourself, you're attacking me.
And, really, what threat do I pose to you?
I'm town. All I can fucking do is vote and make noise.
So, why are you trying to quell that noise?
What about it is so threatening?
If you're town, wouldn't you just brush it off?

P-EDIT:
I am town, so you can stop being an asshole and saying otherwise.

-V

So, let's see here. He's "trying to quell the noise" of you voting him. By... arguing with you? Oh, but you say he's not defending himself. THese statements are mutually exclusive.

You want him to brush it off, and you want him to defend himself? Come on now.

Keep saying "I'm town", that's great. If you say it enough times maybe your fairy godmother will make it come true? You aren't Tammy.

[Cephrir]

The one and only thing you have going for you right now is that you're still posting. Quite frankly, if I was Mac and scum? I'd be telling you to shut the fuck up.

[Cephrir]

Also I think ffery is scum. She feels strongly that I town, yet is sitting back watching as I get railed? It feels like she might be happy to see me go. Watch her carefully.

You're not getting railed. You're getting Varsooned, but that's a far cry from getting railed. If anyone actually starts making noise like they're taking Varsoon seriously about you, I'll take note.

DOMO (6)

-

BROseidon, Desperado, Sakura Hana, Stuffed Crust, Generic, pieguyn

[Cephrir]

On the other, DOMO feels really genuine in response.

Gurl lookit dat 180

[Cephrir]

On the other, DOMO feels really genuine in response.

Gurl lookit dat 180

Why is this suspicious? StuffedCrust's last few posts feel pretty townish to me including the 180. Why are scum more likely to do 180s? Is there anything about this particular 180 you found more likely to come from town than scum?

It was really sudden for me. Plus he suddenly gave me a pass too for no reason. idgi

[Cephrir]

Cephrir why you noticed his 180, but you didnt notice my vote going from sheeping SC to voting him?

I did notice that, but you're crazy, so.

On the other, DOMO feels really genuine in response.

Gurl lookit dat 180

Why is this suspicious? StuffedCrust's last few posts feel pretty townish to me including the 180. Why are scum more likely to do 180s? Is there anything about this particular 180 you found more likely to come from town than scum?

It was really sudden for me. Plus he suddenly gave me a pass too for no reason. idgi

But why is there scum motivation in making sudden 180s? I feel that town are likely to do it too. I've been accused as town more than once for having sudden, sometimes jarring switches in reads and been annoyed at having to explain them. It isn't something I find scummy at all though it looks scummy on the surface.

THis is a thing that happens. But it usually doesn't come RIGHT AFTER "omgomg x is so scum" and be based on posts you've already seen long before the epiphany.

MafiaSSK - Has dropped off the face of the planet. Town due to wagon interaction (his wagon feels scum-motivated, etc)

And yet you're now townreading the wagon, aren't you? I forget who was there besides me and Domo but =/

My wagon is so scum motivated it is painful.

Domo, me, and two others are voting you when you say this, and you just townread the two of this? I forget who the other 2 are.

It's like none of you have ever experienced a mafia epiphany.

Sure I have, but I don't think this is how it happens. And it wasn't even presented like an epiphany. THere wasn't really any acknowledgement in the initial post that he'd been really rethinking his position or anything, DOmo just suddenly became town and I did too.

I don't really give a damn about looking town

THis does not match your behavior today.

[Cephrir]

This is something I often end up being wrong about, but it always bothers me when someone is ATEing and then stops without much time passing in between. (this is unrelated to the below)

i also challenged you to justify how this "reeks of scum-desp" i see you ignored that

i don't blame you

Well you see sometimes something smells really bad, and the smell is really obvious. The verb typically used to indicate that is 'reeks'.
I feel like you're scummy and it's obvious. I smelled it with my scum-sniffer. It reeked of scum-desperado.
It's okay, like, sometimes people use weird imagery, I know.
I'm about to go get food.
What this means is that I'm going to leave my computer, walk to a place that sells food, buy the food from them, and then eat it.
I know, words can be tricky.

Sooooo you said that on no meta basis whatsoever? lolk

[Cephrir]

CEPHRIR WHY DO YOU KEEP TRYING TO SHUT ME UP OR DISENFRANCHISE MY VOICE EVERY TIME I WRITE SOMETHING IN REGARDS TO OTHER PLAYERS WHO I AM PUSHING?
ITS BUGGING ME.

Hi, I'm Cephrir. I like to jump in the middle of other people's lines of questioning.

[Cephrir]

Whaddaya know, SSK is posturing to suspect me later.

coming back to this, why did you say later in this phrase, cephrir?

Because...that's...what happened...???

why would SSK be posturing to suspect you later, rather than now? later is defined as a period of time, so what are you expecting to happen "later" ?

I don't understand the question

That's what he was doing was it not

[Cephrir]

For now happy with my vote, domo continues to make ridiculously self aware comments which don't fit right with me.

If you can't deal with self-aware comments you should probably just vote me now, because it's gonna happen.

Whaddaya know, SSK is posturing to suspect me later.

coming back to this, why did you say later in this phrase, cephrir?

Because...that's...what happened...???

why would SSK be posturing to suspect you later, rather than now? later is defined as a period of time, so what are you expecting to happen "later" ?

I don't understand the question

That's what he was doing was it not

It's a simple question, ceph.

SSK said you were bandwagon hopping. You countered, by saying SSK was posturing to suspect you

later.

Why did you say

later

rather than now? When do you think later would've been?

At the time I felt like you meant later as in when we flipped town and SSK would point out your hop onto our wagon. But I don't know anymore.

It just didn't seem like he was actually about to push on me there and/or wanted to set up a trajectory before actually voting me.

[Cephrir]

I could see an argument that I'm scum buddying Domo, but being his scumbuddy seems kind of farfetched seeing as I could not be buddying him any harder

[Cephrir]

And yes, I'm tunnelling. Sorry. If it makes you feel better that isn't alignment indicative for me; I don't do it often but I can pull up examples of both

[Cephrir]

it's not the tunneling, it's how you were defending all the other possible lynch options, and acting like varsoon was the only one up for lynch. I guess that could be tunneling but I don't consider defending everyone else on top of that to fall under the definition of tunneling

All one of them?

[Cephrir]

[also I did acknowledge Casso as an option several times]

[Cephrir]

Actually, I'd lie and say I didn't kill any of them, but ok.

[Cephrir]

"Ceph and SC are scumbuddies. Better not vote either of them!"

~GM 2013

[Cephrir]

Perhaps you could share with the class?

[Cephrir]

@ Maraca, in hindsight I don't like your push on Tammy. You are presenting the goal as pro-town (Tammy looks obvtown after your push). But Tammy looks obvtown in many games even when not accused of being scum. The only thing your push did was discourage a competent town player from posting much which subtly eliminates a threat without having to nightkill her just by breaking her. Tammy is right that her FOS on you would likely be taken less seriously because you upset her and you come out looking good from the exchange for having done this "pro-town" thing of making Tammy look obvtown. Your push looks like it served a scum wincon much more than a town one. I miss Tammy's contributions to the game (she is the only one I have a mutual townread on so probably the only one I can work with at this point) and I am not happy with it. Your read on Rofl makes no sense. How does Rofl look town?

I seriously doubt their intentions were this nefarious even if they're scum.

All one of them?

that's a blatant fucking lie. I'm almost positive you defended Casso at some point

And this is scummy because:
______________________

Cephrir, Casso, SC scumteam of the year 2013?

with this in mind:

[also I did acknowledge Casso as an option several times]

why would you suddenly defend someone who you'd be fine with lynching? I don't understand 0.0

Because I didn't suddenly defend them. That post was an "I don't get what your point is" not an "I disagree". It was then suitably explained.

[Cephrir]

get you, but IMO it seems odd that you'd be that inquisitive about smth someone you were townreading said. especially when it's implicating someone you'd be ok with lynching. it doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would usually focus on. it seems weird for me 0.0

looking through your ISO, it wasn't just that post. there's another case of it here

I see what you're saying but personally eh.

this seems like a more blatant defense - from what I can see, you're saying what DOMO pointed out was explicitly not scummy. can you explain plz

I'm not sure exactly how to put this, but it seems like you think a townie's thoughts have to all be consistent and they would never undercut their own established viewpoint in the slightest, because they want their points to carry more weight? So like, if I thought a suspect of mine did something townie for instance, I'm supposed to not point it out for fear of damaging my own case? And that isn't how I work.

Also, I wouldn't say the baove post counts as defensive, it's just "that point isn't something I want to vote on" but your mileage may vary

[Cephrir]

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

[Cephrir]

Also, an opinion about the Desp/Stuffed interaction on page 66 (very bottom) through 67 would be interesting to see from you.

I think SC is pretty flagrantly full of shit there, and rereading it makes me feel better about Desperado. Also, they aren't both scum.

I'm not too worried about your opinion because A) I know you can't be pleased from experience and B) if your slot doesn't townread me eventually then it's scum, so I wouldn't really care about its opinion.

[Cephrir]

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

Thor managed to read someone correctly???

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Casso

Thanks for making this easy for me

[Cephrir]

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

Thor managed to read someone correctly???

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Casso

Thanks for making this easy for me

You're voting me for a joke?

is thor talking about thorself in the thord person then?

[Cephrir]

No...?

premise- you are nacho
premise- you are scumreading me strongly enough to not have any caveat in that post
conclusion- you are scum

[Cephrir]

Ceph, I'm thinking he's surprised that Thor managed to read anyone correctly

Oh, I get it now. >.<

VOTE: SC

[Cephrir]

Actually I need to reassess things

UNVOTE:

I'll deal with this later.

[Cephrir]

No...?

premise- you are nacho
premise- you are scumreading me strongly enough to not have any caveat in that post
conclusion- you are scum

You said that Thor read you correctly in two games.
I express surprise that Thor read anyone correctly ever.
Nowhere did I call you scum.

yep yep yep

sorry lol

[Cephrir]

Town:

1. Tammy - More mara's read than mine.
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) -mostly cabd head; you should be ashamed I beat you to a reads list.
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) oh hey these scumfucks snuck into my townblock?
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - mara's read
11. BROseidon - I have my reasons
10. pieguyn - you're not nearly as innocent child status as i'd like though
19. Cephrir - Mara has him down as super duper town
18. DOMO - Meta; being scum with him in 165

Meh:

6. Generic- not as obvtown as I would have hoped, will make mara sort later
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.
8. MafiaSSK - the higher level of activity here as opposed to his past town games makes me wonder things.
15. Sakura Hana - Do something super town so I can put you up a rank please.
17. zMuffinMan- I can't read you for shit so I guess I'll just have to wait and see; nothing jumps out so far.

Not so Town:

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - Mara disagrees slightly
12. Brian Skies - The dismal amount of effort you're bringing here scares me.
20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - the lack of effort here is surprising me and actually kind of making me sad, worried the fuck out of me

In this game?

7. roflcopter - Bitching about large amounts of posts when that's how some players read each other won't get you anywhere
14. goodmorning - START DOING SHIT LIKE OMG
16. pitoli - SEE GOODMORNING

Oh, I see this was made. Cool

Tammy's a little more Meh-read now. She was God-town earlier, but holding a grudge on an attack that I had made earlier and not understanding where my paranoia of her is coming from is a little weird. The emotions were, and still are town as fuck though and isn't something that isn't easily replicated as scum even by me and my ability to replicate most, if not all of my major town-tells is something I have alot of pride over.

I don't like the Pie read

or the domo read (but that's Rev so my read there is going to be cagey as fuck)

a little bit more happier with Casso and Desp, would even move both of them to maybe town

Down-grade SSK

downgrade muffinman
Downgrade sakura? might keep her where she's at

Uprade Copter to town, maybe. Need to relook at that other normal game I had with him though him being VT there is interesting

Mmm, everything else looks good from my perspective.

I was talking about this list, though

VOTE: Pie

I want our vote here, the most I think

I think I am beginning to agree with this, his questioning of me felt kind of robotic

[Cephrir]

@geists:

sry, forgot. can you also explain the Cephrir read?

Would you accept an answer from me? Because I can provide one.

[Cephrir]

@geists:

sry, forgot. can you also explain the Cephrir read?

Would you accept an answer from me? Because I can provide one.

I would like to see your answers.

I was expecting "Ceph is being confident and aggressive and meta meta blah blah".

[Cephrir]

functionally vla until the 22nd

[Cephrir]

We can't wait to wagon me until I'm actually here? That's just rude guys.

[Cephrir]

I gather I am being voted for being Casso's scumbuddy? Please tell me how that is logical in any way?

My ability to care about this dwindled pretty rapidly.

[Cephrir]

I guess ffery and cabd are voting me for being aggressive probably which is fair. They're probably town.

[Cephrir]

I still don't have time for this shit, and getting lynched as town d1 is kinda my MO anyways, so if you can't wait for my finals week to be over then that's just too damn bad.

If you will brook a self meta counterargument, if I was scum I would care.

[Cephrir]

Alright, so I've decided to completely go AWOL from here until my finals are over (aka the 22nd). This is too much of a distraction; my apologies.

If I post here again, consider it a scumclaim and kindly lynch the shit out of me for my own sake.

This means I will not be here if I am run up. After some deliberation I have decided not to claim now. Do with that as you will. I am not currently physically capable of caring. I would leave you my reads but I think they are probably pretty worthless and I think you're better off not rolling with them if I die anyhow.

VOTE: SC for being a smarmy scumbutt. I can hear them cackling with glee that I'm a viable wagon from here.

Good luck today, bye.

[Cephrir]

Hi!

Guess what. I'm back and about to piss off a few people~

Mara's cool with it so whatever.

I wifomed the mason retract but

I am seriously a mason

. (Yes tammy you get to fucking get over yourself) No, not with broseidon. Who I'm partnered with should be obvious but we're not talking about it in any way shape or form today.

The real main reason I'm claiming is this, though.

We have daychat

This means scum has daychat too, most likely not as a part of a role, but merely granted by the setup mechanics. (I just checked, you don't have to have an encyptor to allow daychat in normal games) I decided my lifespan shortening a day or two is worth the info this grants; because hey, I'm pretty shit for reads this game anyways.

I just got back, I have no idea what's happened, but I feel the need to tell you you're a dumbass.

[Cephrir]

The first thing I did upon seeing Bert in this game was ISO him.

Regrettably he is not at this juncture Grade A certified Hard Boiled town, not yet anyway. Feel pretty confident about my ability to generate a strong read here as data collects.

[Cephrir]

I am not sold you are town. Still null at this point. You could be an actual Mason. You could be a VT fake-claiming Mason. Or you could be scum fake-claiming Mason. Regardless, Mara made a dumb move earlier in the game. If you were competent town, I'd expect you to own up to it and back off. You didn't. You continued acting as if you were in the right and OMGUSing me. That makes you (Mara) either scum or incompetent town. I am not sure which. That's why you are in my annoyance pile. Only incompetent townies tunnel mindlessly. I backed off of voting you several pages ago so if you are actually town and this ends up being TvT, it is not my fault and you better not blame me at endgame, just saying that now.

Dunno what you're going on about but I do know this post rubs me the wrong way.

[Cephrir]

More legitimate content will happen when I'm actually home, but for now expect baseless potshots.

[Cephrir]

I actually want to have the other mason out to believe the claim. No, I don't care about keeping them hidden, you're the main wagon right now and I'm hesitant to believe the claim.

This sounds rather silly. Mason claims are pretty much ticking time bombs. One way or another it will resolve itself before too long.

[Cephrir]

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
pieguyn
Sakura Hana
Cephrir
Desperado

^ Here are the scums. Please feel free to create a wagon on any.

Well if you're going to wagon anything in there please do so on me so i dont need to bother with this game anymore that i can't even keep up with atm.

I would never say something like this but I am secretly wishing for it

shhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Cephrir]

I wish this game wasn't 80% noise.

[Cephrir]

I wish this game wasn't 80% noise.

[Cephrir]

SC is still scum and still very much needs to be lynched.

I hate myself for continuing to ignore this game.

[Cephrir]

Isoed Sakura. She is a little scummy but also is not SC, so I'm opposed.

[Cephrir]

Why is SSK scum other than his fucking strange trajectory on me?

P-edit: Sup.

[Cephrir]

OK I'm officially fed up with myself enough to start doing this, but I prolly won't finish tonight,

[Cephrir]

Even though I have technically read most of the posts between the last time I was really caught up and here, I'm going through them again.

I have no scumreads. From the entire day, I developed 5 solid townreads (Tammy, Bert, Geists, Pieguyn, and Desperado). That is less progress than I hoped for but I am fairly sure that there is no scum there. I'd prefer to lynch outside that pool, preferably someone useless that just pops in from time to time to complain about how behind they are (this should put them out of their misery), and preferably someone my townreads want to lynch. I'd like to hear Tammy's updated thoughts after she gets back.

As it is, I am looking at the following possible scumreads from the above players (I crossed out the ones I won't lynch):

Tammy: MC Maraca,

Giests?

Bert:

Geists, Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665), pieguyn

, Ser Arthur Dayne, DOMO
Geists:

Pieguyn

, Sakura, StuffedCrust
Pieguyn:

Casso,

(please provide your other options, Pieguyn)
Desperado: StuffedCrust, maraca,

geists,

domo, dayne

Tammy says Dayne is town, I am leaning pretty heavily town on DOMO and he isn't a viable wagon anyway. I'll likely go with StuffedCrust. The thing that bugged me about them was 2306? I don't like the timing of it. Just shortly before, in 2273, they had me as town but quickly change to apparently agreeing with the suspicion on me. Then, they vote MC Maraca who I was pushing. I don't like it because they seem to pick a side between me and MC based on who was going down. They townread me when everyone else does and scumread me when everyone else does.

Taking this much care/detail with this list looks pretty good to me. When I can read this guy's posts without my eyes glazing over I tend to like them, but that's rare.

Cephrir would be an easy target for a mislynch if he wasn't part of the scum team.
He's had a lot of questionable and awkward play that I'm surprised hasn't been exploited to leverage a lynch.
Why not?
Because the scum doesn't want his lynch.
Why do you think scum wouldn't want his lynch?
1. Because he is scum,
2. Because they are sure of victory,
or 3. Because they are clueless?

-V

It looks like I never commented on how much this post is basically a scum claim. So yeah, this sucks.

Tammy:

I'm voting who I think is scum; not who I think is getting way too hot and bothered because "omfg how dare they read me wrong don't they know I'm innocent child" You can take your burden of proficiency at reading you onto your plane with you. And lose it in the luggage sorting area. In the great words of andrius, "The only innocents are bodies"

Cabd - You have no idea what my mindset actually is if you think that burden of proficiency of reading me is the problem. You have always attributed it far too simplistically.

Nobody should think they can actually get a read on me by being rude and crossing lines to see if I'll get pissed. Because to think that is to not actually know anything about me.

You want to know something about me? You want a meta tell you can take to the bank? Go read my first few posts. I'm never that happy to be in a game as scum. I'm never just having that much fun with the game as scum. THAT'S what I can't fake. And no I don't enter every game I'm town in that happy, but if I am that happy. I'm town.

I won't pretend to understand exactly what mara did with you; and I personally think it was a bit over the top; but this is a game. Anything and everything that helps me, or my partner, get a read is fair game to me so long as it falls in the game's rul

Well congratulations. Bully for you! How'd that work out for you guys, eh? You got to call me town because I got pissed at someone being rude, oh yay, but oh gosh now I'm a scum read and the result is it caused a distraction and 88 pages later it still reeks of shit and gave me another person I have no desire to play with. Wow that sounds like that worked out so well for you guys. Well, if you're scum it worked out marvelously. If town, no so much.

I don't know how people feel about Tammy right now but between this post and where I am now I see people still having some reservations on her being town and all I can say is WTF WHY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

helped the scum.

This ought to be good. Expand on this.

Based off your attacks, Tammy has been running at less than full steam, or at least, not as smoothly as she was in Empire's last game. The fact that you attacked her as a sort of reaction test shows that you know she would likely get upset. You intentionally wanted her to get upset so you could get a read or pretend to get one and move on. The ultimate effect of what you did was scum-sided although I am not fully sure if that was your initial motivation. Perhaps you actually thought as town that you could rile her up, develop a read and move on, with no effect to the gamestate. That brings me to the question: what exactly was your intent at the beginning. What was your ideal outcome?

Questions like this seem townie in motivation, but somewhere in the execution I start wondering "why would you even care about this?" This is a common trend.

You were attacking Cephrir. Then you got on the Stuffed Crust wagon. We attacked you because we didn't like how you got on the Stuffed Crust wagon. You said "why attack me if I was attacking one of your scum suspects?". Answer? It doesn't matter who your suspects are when 1) Cephrir is a Thor-suspect who is vetted to be town by me.

This is still weird. On the one hand, I know you're a pro at reading me. On the other hand, others who are pretty decent at it too I think were scumreading me at this point, and I think they were correct in doing so. In addition, you know that you suspecting me pretty much earns you my vote on the spot, so it wouldn't really be a good option for you as scum anyway.

[Cephrir]

I know I'm responding to ancient stuff, I'm doing it for my own benefit as much as anyone else's.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE

Mac how much game experience with F16 do you have?

I see where you're going with this, but i'll stand behind the line for now.

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this. I hardly ever do.

+1 townie brownie as if you even need more townie brownies at this point

you are basically swimming in brownies

okay not really that's an exaggeration but still that is a good number of brownies

ffery said "you are in luck because I am town" in our newbie together 1436, so that sounds town in my skewed logic ways FWIW lol...

im totally doodling but i am about to skim

P-edit yes that would help

+1

yeah, KoreanBBQ's ISO feels fake as heck. I just looked at who that hydra is.

GIF what is wrong with you, hope all those posts were Nero or else we will have issues?

+1


I know I said I didn't have a strong read initially, and I still don't have nearly a Hard Boiled level read, but feeling good here upon reading along with the thread rather than iso skimming.

This trend proceeds to continue. Someone who has played with Bert more than once, is he any good at faking the demeanor at all? Otherwise I'm just about ready to call him town [this is based on everything from his entry to page 100, not just up to this point].

Also my subconscious tells me to discredit bert's gut.

What is even the point of this post.

Someone answer my question about what the relevant content for me to read over the past 30ish pages is.

You have recent scumteam experience with zmuffin. What do you think of his play?

His apathy is coming off town to me, if anything. :/

Why is that? Why do you think scumMuffin wouldnt be likely to pull the apathetic card? I can see where he wouldn't have direction this game, but I have trouble seeing him regard the game way that Thor currently is because he has the tendency to pick up on the cooler things going on.

Agreed, I've thought Muffin's apathy was town. Perhaps this is related to my own apathy though.

If I'm not trying to sort you, what the hell are we doing now?

wow. you are scum, aren't you?

I don't see how those words could possibly bother you!

I've seen enough.

and I've thought this over.

VOTE: f16

if He does so happen to be town, I'm probably already in alot of trouble

My personal townlist is already big enough so that, I can somewhat start doing PoE. I don't see why you can't do that, either

nyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

and, I had asked cabd if you had a reason to think he was able to read you correctly. There isn't, so you not being impressed by him because he "got your alignment wrong" is absolute shit and reeks of trying to get on his good side.

Why haven't you asked me if I had a reason to think Cabd can read me? I'll answer anyways. Cabd has read plenty of my games, and has even said once that he pegged me as scum in a game after it ended. There is a large enough variation in my town and scum games that someone like Cabd should be able to read me very easily. This is very blatantly my towngame. I am not this skilled as scum. My scumgame amounts to lots of lurking. My best scumgame was where I replaced into an autowin situation and twisted my scumbuddy's meta to call him town and held myself together for 4 real life days in 5P LYLO, so it wasn't even a big deal at all. Bert and Nacho know about this. All other scumgames are much worse. You should check my wiki or ask someone like Tammy, Nacho, or Bert who actually know what my scumgame looks like.

I am actually interested in hearing how accurate this is.

[Cephrir]

is he any good at faking the demeanor at all?

I guess what I really mean is "is he very good at faking the demeanor". It's not as present as it was in HB but is very much here.

[Cephrir]

On that note, I need to go save Christmas. Sorta.

[Cephrir]

I actually hate this burst of posts but I still feel like this is a mislynch.

You should probably all just vote SC.

[Cephrir]

I would vote Stuffed Crust, but I'm already voting them.

Great job wagoning someone for no fucking reason when scum is right in front of your face.

Will continue my read tonight.

[Cephrir]

Town: Desp, Bert, Muffin, Tammy

Scum: DOMO, Ceph, MC?, geists?, Casso?, SAD?

I'm not known for saying my scumbuddies are hardcore town on day 1. The only time I can recall calling a scumbuddy that town was the one game I played a year ago before disappearing again, and that was like day 5. I probably called Cabd town day 1 in NY165 but not this strongly. It sort of baffles me that you would think I would do that regardless of meta? Also, I think BRO is probably town solely because he is not trying very hard to look town (see: ny167, special case admittedly, and to a lesser extent ny165)

That would involve me posting their entire iso.

But in a nutshell, their entire iso is off. Mara is trying to affect an "I'm a badass" image, which actually started with her response to my statement that everyone with a start date within the last year was new. It was fake, she was all pfft you're saying I'm new, which is true, but whatevs. Then every single thing she has posted has been her trying to create an affect like she's in control of the game, which some people can't help but do when they're scum. (If on the slight chance she's not scum, I suppose it could be her trying to show off for her hydra partner and create this atmosphere of something she's not, however it more lines up with her scum).

Anyway read their iso, there's a smugness that's there that denotes not one ounce of town trying to figure out the game but scum posturing every chance they get.

fucking BINGO

bingo, baby

maraca is scum

I guess I can actually sort of maybe understand this logic

I've been wondering about mara for a while now. there's some things she's said that seem off, but I didn't investigate further. now that more people are saying she's scum I'm way more interested. I can elaborate if you want

Also the comment about SC is atrocious. You are happy on the casso wagon, don't like the SC wagon yet are willing to trust GIF over it, which could be GIF bussing them?!?

o I meant scum bussing SC, not GIF. sry for confusion

Where do I start with THAT!? You trust scum on a wagon you have bad vibes for, you prefer the casso wagon but are ready to move onto two other wagons and you don't want indecision anymore but are open to a new push on mcmaraca....

essentially I'm fine with all 3 of them, yeah. we need some better wagons and IMO projecting that I'm happy with all 3 could make people more inclined to hop off their respective wagons to form a better wagon

Every once in a while you say these really weird things and I don't know whether to call them scum craplogic or townie moonlogic =/

Ok, so you voted for casso only after he voted for you. You had a major arguement prior but only when they pulled the trigger so to speak you did.

You also had cephrir as a major scum read that you spent several posts linking to casso, but the moment they to v/la they aren't on your radar at all.
Stuffed crust is a consistent read of yours but if you are scum with cephrir trying to setup casso or if you are scum with casso bussing each other then you are setting up town mislynches on two people I happen to be town reading...

I'm gonna think on this, you are heavily on the radar here Pieguyn.

Wow, I read an entire Generic post! And I even liked it!

Vote: MC Maraca

Quite happy to lynch this hydra today.

zzzzzzzzzz

ffery what the fuck you better not be scum

I feel like you make statements like this a lot but either way I am finding this pretty insincere sounding.

Below are quotes from when MAra was linked. Wow, my Chosen Mafia memory was bad, they were only at lynch -3. But the other two add, though.

Spoiler:

26th Vote Count (26th of Day 1)

Ms Marangal - 7 (RachMarie, 50 Shades of Purple, Wisdom, Sakura Hana, TiP, notcience, saki) - L-0

[/color]

Sakura Hana - 1 (Ms Marangal)
50 Shades of Purple - 1 (notscience)
goodmorning - 1 (bert)
malakittens - 1 (goodmorning)
RachMarie - 1 (Scott Brosius)

A lynch has been achieved!

Deadline August 10, 11:59 PM US Eastern Time (GMT-4)

Nightfall is in (expired on 2013-08-10 20:59:00)

As all men know, the Chosen are a life form greater than any other inhabiting this world. They harvest their energy from the Core using the Great World Spine and grow weapons and great ships. Even a soldier's armor is organically grown, molded to their bodies as a second skin of extreme strength. Yet even these titans must bow to the laws of nature; she does not take kindly to strangers flouting her age old edicts. One of the Chosen believed themselves above these rules, yet how wrong they were....

magenta_thegreat,

Neutral Survivor

, (

formerly

Vanilla Townie

)

has been modkilled Day 1.

It is now Night 1. Please send in all actions within (expired on 2013-10-14 18:00:00)

Town lover

Voodoo Lady was lynched

Ms Marangal thought it better to die then to live in this world. Ms Marangal walked into a dark alley with a crowbar and paid a hobo to beat her/him/it to death. Such a tragic end to a mentally fucked up couple.

Voodoo Lady

and

Ms Marangal Town Lovers

died Day 1

Day 2 Begins NOW

Votecount 2.0

5 votes to lynch.

macmollie

- L5

Nachomamma8

- L5

Wisdom

- L5

absta101

- L5

The Acting Method

- L5

Nachopappa

- L5

Core_H86

- L5

Mutleyddmc

- L5

Vigilante Ventriloquist

- L5

GuyinFreezer

- L5

Not voting

macmollie
Nachomamma8
Wisdom
absta101
The Acting Method
Nachopappa
Core_H86
Mutleyddmc
Vigilante Ventriloquist
GuyinFreezer

Deadline (expired on 2013-06-28 16:13:07)

P-edit: Ffery I'm paranoid about you, don't act surprised lol, paranoia does not equal scum, but I'm still gonna make observations about hwat I don't like. Did you see Sakura on my scumreads list? No. Or Generic? Nope. I mentioned the cons about them in this game so far too. It's not just you. <3

@ffery:

I still think you're town, but to be blunt I'm wondering what the hell is up with you this game. you're still misreading me and this is the first time that's happened. not only that but practically everything you're scumreading me for is bc of my failure in large games. you're scumreading me bc I'm not asking "as many" questions, or cross-referencing "as many" reads. the fact that you attribute these differences to me being scum, rather than me being bad at larges, and your failure to see the town motivation in my actions is starting to worry me

especially when (I think it was you) you townread BRO for being lost, and looking through your ISO you yourself admitted being lost at some point (or mb it was Nati)

and I'm starting to get pissed off bc both your and Bert's scumreads on me are bc I'm not doing "what's expected of me". what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? have you seen any completed large games with me as town? no, bc none exist. there is no way you can know what is "expected of me" in a large game as town. I've explained why my play in large games is different. you act like I didn't. combined with the town motivation in my actions, you should be able to see that I'm town here. rather, considering we have 3 completed games together and we've got along well in the past, I'd expect you to see that I'm town here. but you're still misreading me? wake up

Do you

normally

literally ever try this hard Mr. I barely read threads???

yeah, to some extent

I'm trying to figure out what's going on bc ffery hasn't misread me before.

but I think her reasons for accusing me are really off and not smth I'd expect from her. I still think they're town but their push on me is worrying me a bit

Yuck.

I am not sold you are town. Still null at this point. You could be an actual Mason. You could be a VT fake-claiming Mason. Or you could be scum fake-claiming Mason. Regardless, Mara made a dumb move earlier in the game. If you were competent town, I'd expect you to own up to it and back off. You didn't. You continued acting as if you were in the right and OMGUSing me. That makes you (Mara) either scum or incompetent town. I am not sure which. That's why you are in my annoyance pile. Only incompetent townies tunnel mindlessly. I backed off of voting you several pages ago so if you are actually town and this ends up being TvT, it is not my fault and you better not blame me at endgame, just saying that now.

Dunno what you're going on about but I do know this post rubs me the wrong way.

Reminding myself this happened

[Cephrir]

Players of concern are Bro, zmuffin, domo and to a lesser extent Ceph and Sakura. I'm not totally buying in to the blacklist tell variant.

I have no idea how to read SAD or llamarble at this point.

How did I fall down your scumlist in the intervening 40 pages without doing a single thing?

[Cephrir]

MC Maraca (3) - Tammy, BROseidon, Desperado

Plus F16'
Plus Stuffed Crust

At least one scum in that list of five. If it's not F16 who is it?

GEE I DUNNO

I CAN'T FIND ANY POSSIBLE SCUM IN THAT LIST!!!!

Seriosuly though why do you essentially clear both sc and desperado here? Bro is a stretch too.

I doubt Maraca are a viable wagon today after the claim. I am open to lynching Geists. Not at all confident in the read but I dislike the other wagons although I am not entirely sure about SC.

Key points:
1) Pie read doesn't make sense. That they continued pushing it rather than engaging after I posted a pile of evidence to prove them wrong is unsettling. I don't feel ffery as town would be as hardheaded or unresponsive to alternative viewpoints.
2) Reads on me and MC don't make sense. They condone MC's anti-town play while acting as if I'm "fanning the flames." Even if MC are town, I doubt town would blame anyone for attacking them. Mara's "gambit" was probably the most useless, anti-town one I ever saw.
3) I don't like ffery's attack on Bert for "

testing the waters.

" Seems to be a tactic straight out of scum-ffery's playbook in response to accusations.

VOTE: Geists

Uh, don't you call them obvtown like 2 seconds after this?

Oops last post I meant *townreading me*, not *townreading*

OK, so basically I think Casso/Nacho usually like can't resist buddying or some kind of charm/charisma exuding out naturally

I don't feel anything but robotic walls this game

People generally don't find me convincing until I find them something to convince them of. I occasionally drift through a day 1 similar to this day and unfortunately no one finds waffle nacho as charming or dashing as conviction nacho.

Interestingly, this was why Nacho was lynched in Hard Boiled.

Nonetheless I liked the response here.

The scumteam is:
Goodmorning
Bert
Cephrir
Tammy
Casso

I was going to make a scumteam A and a scumteam B, but these 5 are all together.
VOTE: Bert

This scumlist is so bad that I might actually be the best scumread on it.

Is your gimmick on this account doing the opposite of anything that makes sense?

Hi!

Guess what. I'm back and about to piss off a few people~

Mara's cool with it so whatever.

I wifomed the mason retract but

I am seriously a mason

. (Yes tammy you get to fucking get over yourself) No, not with broseidon. Who I'm partnered with should be obvious but we're not talking about it in any way shape or form today.

The real main reason I'm claiming is this, though.

We have daychat

This means scum has daychat too, most likely not as a part of a role, but merely granted by the setup mechanics. (I just checked, you don't have to have an encyptor to allow daychat in normal games) I decided my lifespan shortening a day or two is worth the info this grants; because hey, I'm pretty shit for reads this game anyways.

k

UNVOTE: MC

I don't think I have to comment on how weird it is that you back off here without saying a single thing but it's pretty weird.

It's also weird that only one person proceeds to call you out on this post.

because, he is literally the only one, who has had people suspecting who hasn't had a wagon grown on him.

A) Not literally true
B) Who would care if it was, I get what you're saying but these things only trike me as significant when they become a consistent pattern.

Tammy is town.
VOTE: Goodmorning

OK, confirmation, your gimmick is ridiculously stupid.

Heh, just kidding

Unvote
Vote: SC

:biggreentowncheckmark:

[Cephrir]

I see someone voting Bert. They should probably stop that.

Continuation of catchup incoming.

[Cephrir]

Lazy fucker.

It's true. But that post you link doesn't tell me that cabd claimed mason, it tells me you were deeply hurt and upset by blah blah. Why would you be hurt and upset about a mafia game? I don't believe you. This feels like you're trying to give the impression of an emotional attachment to the game. This doesn't feel natural. Why are you hurt and upset by cabd?

What? Everyone around here gets too emotional about these games, surely you know that.

Ok fine well I'm liking mara's case, it's better than anything I can present vs varsoon so I'll sheep again.

vote F-16

Would you like some syrup with these waffles?

On further re-read, geists still hasn't done what i'd expect them to be doing by now, Also i'm retracting my townread on Casso and flipping it over. Nacho doesnt give easy townreads like that and it's bothering me like hell all.

Current reads:
Town: Maracabd, goodmorning, Bert, DOMO.
Leaning Town: Korean BBQ.
Leaning Scum: geists
Scumreads: Casso, SC.

Everyone else is null.

Oh, that's why we ran this up.

V/LA til after Christmas.

So glad you allow players like GOodmorning to coast like this. Have you isoed her posts? Since the self aware hand waving of being called suspicious for doing nothing she has fluff posted and prod doded her way along.

Had there not been a potential mason link thrown out I would put more energy into this, but just wanted to say those of you auto clearing her on this behaviour disgust me. That's not mafia, that's making up the numbers.

Sakura hana is almost the same, except she is now in focus so I expect to see something from her.

Scumlurk vs. townlurk.

Townlurk is bad, but ultimately comes from town.

GM's lurk looks like townlurk right now.

Please enlighten me, people keep saying this and I do not get it.

Ok so MC Maraca, BROseidon, Ser Arthur Dayne, why are they voting F-16?

A lot of F-16's interactions with Cabd/Mara rub me the wrong way. He's super trying to discredit them for bad reasons. It's like what I tried to do with Bauss in 167 with a lot less caps.

pedit: null to null/town range, but fuck if I can read either head effectively.

This was a great post.

And I never EVER produce them on cue when someone I'm scumreading demands one.

I thought you'd be more willing considering on that newbie game my scumread on you came from your lack of trajectory analysis.

That was hilarious, because you had no idea that what was most scummy in my behavior was pretending to do trajectory analysis when you asked for it, not that I hadn't done trajectory analysis before then.

Yeah, but i dont like your OWN trajectory of your read on me, your suspicion has been increasing like an OMGUS to my increasing suspicion on you and when i suddenly start putting you as leaning scum you instantly vote me

Oh, that's why we ran this up.

Pedit: why don't you all lynch F-16

Unvote: Stuffed Crust
Vote: F-16

Done.
I don't even have a case on him. I don't care.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Pedit: Thor's never been this freaking town, ever.

Can confirm. Seen townthor twice and scumthor zero times but I'm really liking his posts in this range (for comparison I have never liked a Thor post ever; in fairness I was scum on both occasions but he struck me as really neutral and unreadable)

Because my read on SC is meta related, my read on you and Casso is based on interactions with my scumread and myself overall and the reactions to my reaction tests.

And I already explained why I went for SC some posts ago:

SC has more votes.

Oh, that's why we ran this up.

I'm pretty sure any of the other ones can be faked but this:

I liked this section of the post as it, yet again shows that they are talking, and not only talking, but scum-hunting withing their QT. this post shows that they are debating reads, and that they are actually trying to find some kind of common ground

I spent 15 minutes thinking "How can i disprove this", I couldn't... hence I concede, Casso is town again.

Oh, that's why we ran this up.

HEY GUYS THE F-16 WAGON IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD GET THE FUCK OFF HIM. QUIT FUCKING SHEEPING MARA JUST BC SHE'S "CONFIDENT" IN HER READ. I'M CONFIDENT IN MY CASSO SCUMREAD WHY AREN'T YOU ALL SHEEPING ME INSTEAD. SURE MARA IS SUPPOSEDLY A MASON BUT WHO FUCKING CARES

EVERYTHING HE'S DONE MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN MOTIVATION AND FROM A TOWN MODEL

EVERYTHING

AND I CAN'T SEE HOW APPARENTLY THERE'S SO MUCH SCUM MOTIVATION IN HIS ACTIONS FOR HIM TO BE LYNCHED

AS SOON AS GEISTS SAID THIS

In the Harry Potter game he and I played he said afterwards that he regretted not defending his town reads more vigorously than he did.

I FELT ESPECIALLY CONFIDENT THAT HE'S TOWN HERE

if he's WK'ing me then I'll accept defeat bc I'm 100% confident he's town >_<//

vote: SC

WE'RE LYNCHING THIS TODAY

I don't think I can relay how strange is was to see a really emotional capslock post right after one of your normal posts (which are generally hyper logical imo)

1) That only means im getting suspicions on them, not scumreading them overall.
2) That happened after I had made that post where i mentioned SC having more votes.

And you wonder why I think you're scum?

PEd: Oh well >_>

If you're town, you think I'm scum because your town-me model is way too sketchy to be useful and you're overconfident. Bert's read is at least driven by paranoia that he comes by quite honestly.

I kinda hope you are town, because it perversely pleases me any time someone I think is starting to be able to read me winds up with an epic fail.

Hehehetown

"how can i disprove this thing that you can't even prove yourself, welp, guess they're town"

barf

this game is an abomination

mara's towncasso case is littered with shitty towntells. casso is town for discussing reads in their qt (that you aren't privy to)? casso is town for miscommunicating and that comes more from town hydras (what??)?

that's your smoking gun? faking hydra interaction is not difficult. why do you think thor and nacho aren't capable of it?

PS i'm townreading both mara and casso right now. but that is literally the only thing i found interesting since the last time i posted

whoever said that mara's case convinced them to change their

I too take back all the nasty things I've been thinking about you this game ^.^

Mara, I don't agree with your reasoning for pushing Tammy and I assumed that it was scum motivated. Naturally, I pushed you for it. The reasoning I provided was much the same that Tammy did. I agreed with her reasoning and conclusions. I pointed this out before. She explains it in her 779. We were clearly both wrong about your affiliation.

I also want to respond to this:

I haven't noticed anyone do more than handwave about the past 20 pages or so. I totally TOTALLY disagreed with his push on Maraca, and I thought he made too much of a deal about Tammy being some delicate flower whose day 1 effectiveness could be completely destroyed by a scumread. She's capbable of taking that kind of thing in stride and using it to advantage. I've seen her do it.

I think you misread my intentions because I certainly think Tammy is a big girl that is capable of using things like this to a town advantage. I merely agreed with her assessment of herself that scum would want to throw her off-balance and connected it with past experience. She elaborates on it in 779. This isn't something I deduced by myself.

@ BERT, I never agreed with your read on Geists. I thought it made you town because it came from a town place. Unless you are claiming that I should believe town are always correct, it doesn't follow that I should follow your vote on them. I think you are both town.

@ Generic, I find your stance very scummy. You seem to posturing yourself to vote me based on Mara's certainty despite earlier saying that you were townreading me. Mara and I have played one game together and we didn't interact a lot in it either. You and I played in one game where we interacted a lot. Why would you trust her read over your own?

So, far out of the people that voted me, I find MC the most townish - even without the Mason claim, I think Mara obvtowned herself. I am inclined to believe GoodMorning is the other mason as it matches with MC's read on her and other's thoughts about it. I find Casso extremely scummy. Partly because Nacho is hanging back while Thor troll-votes anyone and everyone without regard to who is town or scum or has any reads at all. Most of his posts are alignment neutral but the fundamental difference is that I believe town-Thor would play to win. As of now, it doesn't seem like they are helping town win. The others on the wagon are null besides Bert who is town. Off the wagon, I am even more confident in my read on Geists. I am getting slightly paranoid that GIF thinks ffery is scum and he has lot more experience playing with her but I evaluated their slot to the best of my ability and still read them as town. Pieguyn's latest posts also re-affirm my previous townread as do Desperado's and Korean BBQ's.

TOWN

:
1) Tammy
2) Geists
3) Desperado
4) Pieguyn
5) Bert
6) GoodMorning
7) MC Maraca

YET TO BE SORTED

:
8) zMuffinMan - Leaning town
9) KoreanBBQ - Leaning town
10) MafiaSSK - Null
11) DOMO - Null
12) BROseidon - Null
13) Norlkaz - Null
14) Cephrir - Null
15) Sakura Hana - Null
16) Ser Arthur Dayne - Null
17) Generic - Leaning scum

SCUM

:
18) Stuffed Crust
19) Casso the King of Seals

I think Casso is scum likely with Stuffed Crust, and possibly a couple of people in my null pile, Generic being a person of concern at this moment. Casso's vote on me is especially suspicious because Nacho knows how to read me really well. He's played plenty of games with me, I've asked for his advice on how to improve my game both in PMs and in public etc. If that slot has a read on me, it would be Nacho's and if they had a scum read, he would attack me extensively. Nacho sitting back and letting Thor throw in a troll vote doesn't match up with his town meta. Nacho also wouldn't be indifferent to having a read on me or let Thor take the lead.

Am I recalling incorrectly or are you readlisting like

every other post

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, indeed I am posting reads frequently. You are at the top of my scumlist at the moment. Thoughts?

My thoughts are you'll see what my thoughts are when I finish reading the daggum thread and not a moment sooner

[Cephrir]

STILL TOWN

Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain)
Muffin
Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon)

TOWN

goodmorning
Cephrir
geist
Generic

TOWN?

DOMO
Tammy/F-16_Fighting_Falcon*
pieguyn

UHHH....

MafiaSSK roflwaffles
BROseidon
Norlkaz Brian Skies
Sakura Hana
Bert
Ser Arthur Dayne

NOT TOWN

Desperado

VERY NOT TOWN

Tammy/F-16_Fighting_Falcon*

*conditional, they aren't scum with the other, so if one flips scum the other moves to the townish pile however there is the chance that they are town, together. so, while a scum-flip clears the other, a town-flip wouldn't likely condemn the other

Pedit: but... I already linked a game where I think she used emotions of a sort to disarm me from furthering my case on her where she was scum.

also, F-16? you also said you agreed with him, there.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

WHY

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY WAGON

AND OUR VOTE

DESPERADO WHY ARE YOU NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION

Mara, I don't agree with your reasoning for pushing Tammy and I assumed that it was scum motivated.

earlier you stated that you didn't know what to make of my push on tammy. You said that you had no way of knowing if I was town making a stupid move, or scum doing so blatant to "help my wincon"

and then...

and then...

and then...

you still say I'm the towniest ON YOUR WAGON and that I obv-towned myself when you don't even

know

what town-mara looks like and spent... all day trying to say that I was scum without really calling me scum

and? your scumlist is shiiiiiiiiiiitttttt

You do nothing all day BUT try to discredit my play and you only try to work with us because we claimed Mason....

but, as for why you think my case on Casso is wrong

Suspecting you and pushing for your lynch isn't a scumtell. Saying that you are town isn't a towntell. Town can be wrong and scum will townread townies.

I'm very well aware of this, I town-read people all the time as scum. this is a far to simplistic version of my case on Casso, and it DOES NOT take into consideration what he knows about me, what I know about him, his knowledge on the kinds of things that make me squeamish, the kind of things that I don't hesitate to push on but completely disregarding that, anyway.

You also aren't interpreting the Nacho/generic interaction the way I did... it had nothing to do with Nacho admonishing him for scum-reading me


AND SPEAKING OF MY NACHO/THORCASE (mostly nacho)

In our game together, I was calling Nacho town for reasons FAR more useless than the ones I used here, I also called molla town for something super duper menial and you? you were all "oh, I'm glad you caught that" and didn't bother either of them, period. I was wrong on Nacho/andy, sure but you still trusted my read on them and you definitely didn't call them shit. Something I would expect from someone like, nero maybe but you?

it's pretty fucking weird. kinda like you're looking for a new way to discredit me since you can't call us scum anymore.

ALSO NACHO
I still maintain there being a scum between Tammy and F-16,

and I have a really hard time seeing F-16 scum so some light on the matter might help

Holy shit I missed this the first time around. Why are you wa-wa-waing about your wagon on falcon disappearing and then in the VERY SAME POST say the bold?

That's a point. SSK claimed doc by lived through the night? When does that EVER happen?

vote mafiaSSK

this is an antitown thing to say, shut up

[Cephrir]

oh I had more quotes in there. Oops! Whatever, obviously my comment on the first is "wtf?" and the second is "this and I don't feel like you properly responded to this?"

[Cephrir]

Ceph, what do you think about the decisions not to lynch Sakura?

At present I think that decision was absolutely correct. I think the blow up was pretty close to an innocent child claim.

[Cephrir]

On the whole Generic seems to be extremely bad at knowing when to shut the hell up.

[Cephrir]

I don't mind you voting me if you think I'm scummy generic, don't feel compelled to unvote to keep things civil.

such town
wow

Why am I alive and my mason is alive and the claimed doc is alive?

Because SSK is lynchable and because you're asking this question. Also, they couldn't kill you, you were the obvious doc save.

I've like, super power skimmed most of what I'm behind on.

If SSK is around for too long, I'm PLing that shit. I'll leave "too long" ambiguous for now. Only concern I have is that he's a strong scum PR gambiting to stay alive as long as possible.

Also, if anyone expects me to remotely keep up with this spamfest while I'm V/LA, they can go eat some durian. Or something.

You really should just not discuss this at all. This goes for everyone. You are allowed to talk about whether you want to lynch SSK today or not but please don't talk about when you would be willing to lynch him if at all ever.

[Cephrir]

Wow, I went 100ish posts without readlisting! I shall reward myself by readlisting.

[Cephrir]

A list not including MCM/SSK, with minimal reasoning
by Cephrir

TOWN
DOMO: This hasn't changed. Town town town town town town.
geists: ffery is posting a lot and clearly scumhunting.
Sakura Hana: That reaction.
F-16: The scumreads here are just bullshit.
Casso: I was persuaded in the last 40 pages. Thor has been surprisingly awesome and this looks like towncho.
Bert: He's doing what I'm looking for but not as much as I want him to.
Bro: Not playing the way I've seen him play scum, and when he does bother to grace us with his presence I like him.
Generic: mostly on the strength of today.
Desp: Those posts I picked out a couple quote walls ago really were this good.
Muffin: I really liked a few pages ago when he threw away a chance to scumread me (a very easy mislynch) for no good reason and without trying to take credit for having a sick read or anything.

LESS TOWN
KoreanBBQ: Mostly just because I have reason to think everyone north of them is town. This is definitely a 'to many townreads' type of game.
goodmorning: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz If you're town then I really hope you're a mason because otherwise I will probably lynch you at some point
Norlkaz: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but I guess I liked Brian Skies? Reads don't get much staler than that one though.
pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.
Ser Arthur Dayne: I just don't like any of the things he actually posts.

After yesterday though I'm feeling rather shitty about this game so I will probably sheep ffery/Nacho for a while as long as they aren't doing something I strenuously object to. Then again I say things like that a lot and usually don't follow through on them.

[Cephrir]

Its kinda dumb but scum have claimed masons before.

Pretty sure there's no dripping goofball, kuribo or whoever the third head of serene was. Mason claim is legit.

He said "scum have faked masons" not "town have faked masons for no reason".

especially if maracabd's idea about daychat is correct

It's not an idea. It's a fact. Masons having daytalk and scum NOT having daytalk wouldn't be in a normal game, which this explicitly is.

I'm not sure that's quite a thing.

Arthur, I buy that you wouldn't have liked to kill Tammy but it is still possible that your buddies wanted to kill her despite your objections. I am taking it as null.

the Tammy kill was weird and causes nothing but WIFOM.

I don't actually understand why she was killed, she would have made a great tool in making a shitton of noise

I would have never gotten over my paranoia over her without a flip

and at some point, I might have even tried to make a case against her

Because everyone but you could see she was the townest town that ever towned a town, maybe?

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, indeed I am posting reads frequently. You are at the top of my scumlist at the moment. Thoughts?

Now that I'm caught up my thoughts are "all things considered given the apparent strength of that read it's kinda weird you never really talk about it?"

[Cephrir]

vote cephrir

Towning me so hard is sketchy as fuck. He's recently been scum with me and knows I'm capable of acting town when scum. There's no way he can be this confident he's town unless he actually knows.

=/

I'm towning you because I didn't think you were particularly town in 165 and your play here is totally different. For instance, you are taking a lot of strong stances, whereas I recall you being ridiculously wishy washy about me and IIRC one of our other scumbuddies in 165.

[Cephrir]

Also, I'll point you to a couple instances of me towning someone even harder than this if you want me to. Best example being Hard Boiled where my certainty got the exact same reaction.

[Cephrir]

It makes no sense. I'm all over the place. I'll be honest, I can see why people think I'm scummy. I contributed hard to the SC wagon, but when push comes to shove, I bail claiming the wagon is flithy. I then come out today crumbing and WIFOM'ing all over the thread. I don't know how he can get such a town read on me from that. F-16 is my next best supporter, and he's leaning town whilst being a little cautious. Ceph is towning me a lot more than he should be.

Why on earth would you crumbing and wifomming like that be scummy? It's pretty great.

[Cephrir]

Because of how fucking town you are.

Jegus.

[Cephrir]

The best part is that I even like you voting me XD

[Cephrir]

Well this is a shitpost and a half.

A list not including MCM/SSK, with minimal reasoning
by Cephrir

TOWN
DOMO: This hasn't changed. Town town town town town town.
geists: ffery is posting a lot and clearly scumhunting.
Sakura Hana: That reaction.
F-16: The scumreads here are just bullshit.
Casso: I was persuaded in the last 40 pages. Thor has been surprisingly awesome and this looks like towncho.
Bert: He's doing what I'm looking for but not as much as I want him to.
Bro: Not playing the way I've seen him play scum, and when he does bother to grace us with his presence I like him.
Generic: mostly on the strength of today.
Desp: Those posts I picked out a couple quote walls ago really were this good.
Muffin: I really liked a few pages ago when he threw away a chance to scumread me (a very easy mislynch) for no good reason and without trying to take credit for having a sick read or anything.

LESS TOWN
KoreanBBQ: Mostly just because I have reason to think everyone north of them is town. This is definitely a 'to many townreads' type of game.
goodmorning: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz If you're town then I really hope you're a mason because otherwise I will probably lynch you at some point
Norlkaz: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but I guess I liked Brian Skies? Reads don't get much staler than that one though.
pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.
Ser Arthur Dayne: I just don't like any of the things he actually posts.

After yesterday though I'm feeling rather shitty about this game so I will probably sheep ffery/Nacho for a while as long as they aren't doing something I strenuously object to. Then again I say things like that a lot and usually don't follow through on them.

This readslist is bad.
Assuming that
1. There are 4-5 Scum in a game this size and
2. You think SSK is Scum (unless I'm missing something)
that gives you 3-4 scumslots to fill. You have 5 scumreads to fill those slots. Two of those scumreads are "eh you haven't posted". One is PoE. One is tone-based. One is gut(?).

Guess how many of those are truly valid at this stage of the game?

1. I don't care if my number of scumreads matches up to the number of scum the game may or may not contain. I'm not trying to solve the whole damn puzzle at once.
2. I didn't say that. I am withholding my opinion.
3. I happen to think 3, possibly 4 after this post, of those are decent reads. More importantly, I don't see you having any reads to speak of, so shut up.
4. Valid schmalid. I'll let you know if I get a cop guilty, until then I will continue to read as best as I can, deal with it, or you can start whining about my lack of 'evidence'.

Man MCM I really wish you would for sure claim whether or not you're masons with this since since it's basically out there anyway and I'd love to not spend my time trying to lynch it.

Go ahead, accuse me of rolefishing, see if I care.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Arthur

Sheeping Casso because I also agree with them.

Responses later, rushing out door.

[Cephrir]

2) Ceph/DOMO spat is weird as, especially given their day 1 interactions that looked like potential buddies. Could be some sort of a distancing play? Someone who's not on vacation should probably look at that.

Getting tired of this naive viewpoint though.

[Cephrir]

Is this setup just literally 167?

[Cephrir]

Oh, that's what you were pointing out. Well then.

[Cephrir]

Cool. I'm going to get lynched because people are sheeping each other (steaming from the nacho vote) because people are too lazy to push their own wagons.

Just like the D1 lynch.

you're getting wagonned because so far five people think you're scummy, or are at least pretending to.

1/5 are voting for a reason I already defended, 2/5 are sheeping because "aye" and they "agree" with the reason I already defended, 1/5 is voting because of a true statement I made that they linked to something out of someone else's meta and are trying to call me scum based on it, and 1/5 are voting partly because it's the highest wagon currently and partly because of a comment I made that 2 people already indirectly made and was made in support of something I had already made previously.

Did I hit the nail on the head?

Is this supposed to do you any favors?

[Cephrir]

We adopt the NY167 strategy. Let the doc live for now to deter kills on the investigative role, reevalutate later. The plan is easily foiled by a mafia roleblocker, but all the same it's correct.

[Cephrir]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Cephrir]

huehuehue (I think?)

[Cephrir]

No, because there was no reason

[Cephrir]

Oh yay I have a read.
That feels like a really awkward entrance. I arrived to the party late and I'm daunted by having to play ctach up. He comes in and immediately puts his pawns in place. That doesn't feel much like a town entrance to me.

Agreed, but his explanation did clear it up for me somewhat.

What explanation did you like?

I no longer know what this is talking about but I'll get to it

[Cephrir]

No miller doesn't mean there's no cop, because miller is a stupid role and good mods don't use it.

[Cephrir]

Be a lot of heat on you now and unlike exchanges we have had you seem to be keeping your distance more in this one. I would love to hear from you on firstly the cases against you and then secondly your strongest reads in the game so far.

i don't see a case against me

i see sakura voting me because i...don't think she's scum anymore i guess? which isn't even accurate

@ geists: what's up?

@ f-16: i won't explain my geists read; bro is town for blatantly sheeping me, of all people, yesterday

Why does sheeping you make BRO town.

Are you still scumreading Sakura?

There is so much chaos in your stances that I want to townread you for that alone. :/

hehehehehe

[Cephrir]

pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.

so you think it's weird when I make an emotional post, but when I make logical posts it's also weird bc the tone is too cold?
[/quote]
I have a slight dislike for the overall coldness even though it's probably a playstyle issue; breaking from it was annoying as well.

@Cephrir:

what do you think about 2268?

Good point; that sucks too.

- isome of his recent responses to the votes on him looked kinda townish

Unfortunately I agree with this somewhat but it's not sufficient for me to move.

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

[Cephrir]

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

I think I finally nailed what irks me so much about you. It's that you don't read the game, then shamelessly proceed to think you can analyze things you probably haven't even looked at.

Here, I'll help ya out:

1) Do you know what "crowd following" actually is.
2) ISO the mod and tell me the highest number the Pie wagon and the Muffin wagon ever go to while I was on them.
3) Figure out my position on the wagon.

Combine 2 and 3, and then compare them with 1. I think you'll find the results rather fascinating!

Fuck you, I'm reading the game. I just don't fact check minute accusations against people other than me; that's their job.

I don't care about votes as much as most people do. I care about words. If you'd like to argue your suspicions didn't shift with convenient timing, I would consider it a reasonable rebuttal if you could produce evidence, but I don't care nearly enough to look for it myself.

[Cephrir]

what the fuck is even that post?????????????????

[Cephrir]

I don't care about votes as much as most people do.

Really? Interesting...

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

---

Fuck you, I'm reading the game. I just don't fact check minute accusations against people other than me; that's their job.

Really? Interesting...

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

The accusation here that was made is that I camped my vote. You then proceeded to ACCUSE me of "crowd following". What the fuck do you mean "it's their job". Nothing he said was freaking wrong. THE ACCUSATION YOU MATERIALIZED OUT OF THIN AIR IS. STOP. SCAPEGOATING.

---

If you'd like to argue your suspicions didn't shift with convenient timing, I would consider it a reasonable rebuttal if you could produce evidence, but I don't care nearly enough to look for it myself.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Not to mention that statement is terrible for other reasons (for example the fact that you expect me to defend myself when you yourself HAVE NOT PRESENTED A CASE OR ANYTHING FOR ME TO DEFEND AGAINST. In the words of The Hound, "Bugger that. Bugger him. Bugger you.")

1) that's not a contradiction

2) Your read magically changed because everyone else's did; it's their job mean if you have a problem with that assertion then you need to argue with it

3) I don't care whether I have presented a case or not despite this being a massive double standard

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, a few questions:
1) Explain your reversal of read on me. Everything you quoted in your catch up post seemed like you found it scummy.
2) Are you serious about the posts of Sakura that you quoted saying that you agreed why she was run up?

OK, thought I already answered these.

1) It never reversed. I did quote a few things I found scummy, but still wasn't scumreading you.
2) Mostly, I guess.

[Cephrir]

I don't care about votes as much as most people do.

Really? Interesting...

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

---

Fuck you, I'm reading the game. I just don't fact check minute accusations against people other than me; that's their job.

Really? Interesting...

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

The accusation here that was made is that I camped my vote. You then proceeded to ACCUSE me of "crowd following". What the fuck do you mean "it's their job". Nothing he said was freaking wrong. THE ACCUSATION YOU MATERIALIZED OUT OF THIN AIR IS. STOP. SCAPEGOATING.

---

If you'd like to argue your suspicions didn't shift with convenient timing, I would consider it a reasonable rebuttal if you could produce evidence, but I don't care nearly enough to look for it myself.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Not to mention that statement is terrible for other reasons (for example the fact that you expect me to defend myself when you yourself HAVE NOT PRESENTED A CASE OR ANYTHING FOR ME TO DEFEND AGAINST. In the words of The Hound, "Bugger that. Bugger him. Bugger you.")

1) that's not a contradiction

2) Your read magically changed because everyone else's did; it's their job mean if you have a problem with that assertion then you need to argue with it

3) I don't care whether I have presented a case or not despite this being a massive double standard

1) Yes, "textbook crowd following" has NOTHING to do with votes. Dear me, where did I ever get the idea that it does?

2) What the fuck. No. Literally. WHAT. THE. FUCK. You're saying you're going to accuse me of something I didn't do and that IT'S MY JOB OF THEN FIGURING OUT IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT/FACT CHECKING IT? Are you going to keep fucking denying you're scum? "Hi I'm going to spew shit at you and I give no fucks if it's actually true or not that's your job of figuring out! Oh also I'm town!"

3) Yeah I'm done this please die scum.

1) You're a moron.

2) I was agreeing with Muffin. If you have an issue, take it up with him, rather than deflecting the issue by starting a fight with me and throwing in some fake rage.

3) I'd prefer not to, if only marginally.

Incidentally, you're lucky I bothered to give a civil response here rather than vote you 50 times as I was originally going to.

2) Your read magically changed because everyone else's did; it's their job mean if you have a problem with that assertion then you need to argue with it

My favorite part about this statement is how it subtly implies that he knows he's wrong yet continuing the argument, whereas a town would've admitted he's wrong right away.

I still have no idea whether or not I am wrong on the original point but your reactions have been pretty great!

I have a slight dislike for the overall coldness even though it's probably a playstyle issue; breaking from it was annoying as well.

the problem is that you're saying it's weird no matter what kind of post I make. if I make a logical post, it's too cold. if I make an emotional post it's weird bc I'm breaking from my logical style. you set up this false dichotomy (logical vs emotional) and then no matter which one I pick you paint it as scummy. if you're town this is confbiased as fuck and not to mention I know you said you try to avoid this when I was questioning you on D1. if you're scum it gives you an easy way to throw suspicion at me

also, 170+ pages in and one of your main scumreads is probably a playstyle issue? srsly

It may be, not it is. But it seems safe to assume this is your meta without looking into it or someone else would have commented by now.

I do know that my scumreads blow ass right now, though.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir and Bert stand out as capable scum who are currently active but not in the trenches.

What on earth about my play this game looks "capable" to you? I'm running around like a chicken with its fucking head cut off.

A scumteam based on Pieguy, whom I don't understand the townreads on:
Pieguy
Bro
BBQ?
Muffin or Desp
Ceph

VOTE: PieGuy

He'd be an effortscum, but how many players are left who wouldn't?

Casso is still an option. F16 less so.

I am somewhat disgusted by MC / GM being masons, but they laid considerable groundwork for the claim and haven't backed down.
It's worth mentioning that Marangal claimed masons as scum in Wingate, but she was also scummier in that game.

So...are you planning to explain anything this game, at all?

[Cephrir]

I'm done trying to have this conversation, you can die now

[Cephrir]

Or I can, I mean that's alright as well.

[Cephrir]

Casso: probably town
Bert: probably town
Desperado: town?
Domo: town
pieguyn: maybe scum

I don't see a problem

[Cephrir]

See I have concerns about cephrir and I'm trying to decide exactly what it is.

The reads of the wagon are indeed consistent with his earlier reads, but it's exactly that sentence DOMO highlighted that pings something.

It's almost as if he had already determined how town the wagon was rather than the main thing being on a wagon should be, that you think the person is scum.
Yes you were asked for opinions of the players on that wagon, but you seemed to introduce whether the wagon was acceptably town enough.

I'm gonna scrutinise the arguement you had with SAD in a bit more detail to settle my mind on a few things, for now though I would rather the SAD wagon stays parked rather than accelerated.

Nah bro, I def think he's scum too. Outside chance of just retarded, but, probably scum. You can see that from when I originally voted him in the first place even if my reasons were kind of shitty.

[Cephrir]

(pro tip: my reasons are virtually always kind of shitty)

[Cephrir]

VOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthurVOTE: arthur

[Cephrir]

someone wake me up when this day is over

[Cephrir]

See I have concerns about cephrir and I'm trying to decide exactly what it is.

The reads of the wagon are indeed consistent with his earlier reads, but it's exactly that sentence DOMO highlighted that pings something.

It's almost as if he had already determined how town the wagon was rather than the main thing being on a wagon should be, that you think the person is scum.
Yes you were asked for opinions of the players on that wagon, but you seemed to introduce whether the wagon was acceptably town enough.

I'm gonna scrutinise the arguement you had with SAD in a bit more detail to settle my mind on a few things, for now though I would rather the SAD wagon stays parked rather than accelerated.

Nah bro, I def think he's scum too. Outside chance of just retarded, but, probably scum. You can see that from when I originally voted him in the first place even if my reasons were kind of shitty.

This post is in a way rather unsettling.
Nothing to do with the admittance you voted of very weak ground, we have all done that, but ore with how calm you are with me.
Your tone in this game is strong aggression when challenged and essentially I posted something negative about you. Maybe I have you read wrong but you position here is interesting.

As a side note guys I am again having to go v/la for family matters, will return to this when I'm back hopefully by Sunday.

The difference being that I don't think you're scum and am not mad at you.

TOWN ANGELS:

Pieguyn - A couple observations I have from the scumgames that I skimmed is that pie :effort: level here is very impressive compared to his :effort: level elsewhere, and his pushes on players here seem much more thorough than they did in any of his other scumgames. Early townread on goodmorning is a bit strange (as in I don't see the basis of it whatsoever), especially since it's one of the pie's top tier townreads; he didn't have any weird townreads like this in Marketplace. I agree with him that the strong tilt against our slot is something unlikely to come from Pieguyn-scum, and his theories of various scumteams sometimes get a little conspiracy theory but they seem very genuine (see: Casso-Cephrir team based on timing, Casso-Sakura team based on D1 and how he got people to talk about the Casso-Sakura possibility after he thought of it); they all seem like unlikely angles for scumpieguyn to push so fervently, especially when he hasn't demonstrated the ability to fervently push easier targets in the past. I also like a lot of his "I expect you would pick on on this" language, seems fairly genuine. The big thing is how absolutely out of his mind he would have to be playing in order to be scum right now, which is why I'm upgrading him at the moment.

feel much more comfortable upgrading pieguyn than I do the other two simply because pie's scumgame has a much smaller range than the other two have, and I simply can't see pie going from two games where generally he got scared to drive his pushes through pretty quickly and never came close to hitting the genuine notes he's hitting here to his play in this game. Even based on his push on Sakura alone here compared to Touhou uPick is town town town.

I'm gonna take your word on this for now because I have vivid recollections of being miserably bad at meta.

[Cephrir]

The post is alarming because the primary purpose seems to be showing us how much work Nacho is doing.
His descriptions are too detailed for a notes-to-self post but too mashed-together for a persuasive post.

Purposes of large masturbatory reads lists are for me to get as much work done as possible while I still have a laptop at my disposal, to explain some reads, to solidify positions enough where I can push with confidence. I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

[Cephrir]

Did you read my attempt at meta in hardboiled? It was really pathetic. I said something like "I guess he makes longer posts as scum???" or something equally wimpy. You don't count, that's from direct personal experience.

[Cephrir]

I'm fairly confident you've seen a "Nacho showing off how much work he's doing" post, and it usually comes with limitless quote stripes and is followed by coasting, coasting, and more coasting.

"As scum my play looks more like thus and so" is on my list of statements that come more often from scum than town.

Said the shining beacon of towniness