NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[geists]

@geists:

why are you having reservations about nacho?

I had bourbon-induced reservations about nacho a couple days ago. On the face of it, I feel like most of his day 1 play, especially his run at Sakura and then his change of heart looks very town.

I'm learning though, that he can emulate some of what I've always considered his town-tells, so the bar gets raised occasionally.

looking back on his D1 play, I'm not sure if I see the scum motivation in it. first off we had SC who practically had a death note signed thx to GIF scumreading him. instead nacho made a town case and stood by it. and now that he flipped town we know he wasn't trying to defend a buddy, so why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)? especially bc he had every opportunity to mislynch SC and he didn't take it 0.0 he could be scum faking, but idk

All true.

Go back and look at the day after Morph was nightkilled in the Marketplace game. And look at Garuda's dismantling of every comment I made about ProHawk maybe being scum. Every single comment.

I'm not saying that is happening here because I don't think it is happening. But don't underestimate Nacho's scum game.

second, the wagon switching at deadline. you said all the effort he put in was town as fuck. are you starting to rethink this?

No. But, in the long term, it's figuring out what feels genuine about him in this game compared to others that leads me to think no. Not the action, itself.

also, do you disagree with all the people saying thor is town as fuck? I'm inclined to agree with them after going insane on D1 bc now I get his feeling of "just wanting a lynch already". also, nacho's push on me bc of my lack of interest in zmuffin makes so much more sense considering he knew zmuffin was scum against me in marketplace 3

I don't have a lot of game experience with Thor and I don't think I've ever played a game with him where he was town.

I am for the most part not considering his posts in trying to figure out casso.

[geists]

On other business, I love how geists now has this more cinical and carefree edge to their posts since getting effectively a cop clear. You can call it being butthurt if you like, unless you are a scum cop (which btw I find rather stupid logic to have been thrown out this early in the bloody game) you guys represent the first one I know I now have read wrong

I actually feel kind of uncomfortable about it. Most of my early reads are shaped by how people react to me, what they jump on as scummy behavior, why they think I'm town, etc. All of that has been short-circuited, and what replaces it is something I'm not familiar with - a very specific scenario - and how people react to that one cluster of possibilities. It's been a really long time since I've been close to cleared on day 2 and not on the basis of my own play.

[geists]

Has anyone in this game seen an F16 scum game? I ask because I have seen him panic under pressure as town, I have that as the basis for my town read on him because the quizmaster play and the endless analysis without actually going anywhere is any alignment because its easily faked.

So I want to know if im being misguided assuming this to be his town game based on the only example I have.

Newbie 1429 - he replaced in at lylo after I was dead

Micro 247 - I read this one after the fact, and I think it was for bert and/or brian skies meta. F-16, Bert and Telo were at lylo in this one.

[DOMO]

I actually feel kind of uncomfortable about it.

Sorry! tbh though you're a good leader so there's worse people I could've cleared. I'm obviously hoping that you're able to sinff out scum today and lead the town to a successful lynch. It's gonna be hard for scum to derail a wagon that you're leading. Or me for that matter. I just have more confidence that you'll have success!

[DOMO]

I'm seeing similarities between micro247 and this F-16. Here he's constantly asking everyone what they think of x, asking people to explain their reads. He seems to do this in micro. And his detailed scum/town list - #128 in micro, #2881 here... what I'm getting from this is that F-16's scum game is in order. He could be emulating his town game in micro, so I want to have a look at a town game of his.

F-16 is null based on a quick read of micro. I've got to start getting ready for this evening now so I'm signing out until next year.

Screw you 2013! Happy new year all!

[geists]

I don't think that's what distinguishes his town game from his scum game.

[Desperado]

can you elaborate on your sakura read

how do you like the chance scum Nacho tried to "conf-town" scum Sakura by pushing a wagon on her to L-1?

not beyond the reasons i gave for him being scum yesterday

i think that would be unlikely. if nacho is scum he conftowned Sakura so that he could orchestrate a deadline lynch

[geists]

I don't think that's what distinguishes his town game from his scum game.

[geists]

can you elaborate on your sakura read

how do you like the chance scum Nacho tried to "conf-town" scum Sakura by pushing a wagon on her to L-1?

not beyond the reasons i gave for him being scum yesterday

i think that would be unlikely. if nacho is scum he conftowned Sakura so that he could orchestrate a deadline lynch

Except he didn't orchestrate the deadline lynch. I did.

[DOMO]

I don't think that's what distinguishes his town game from his scum game.

Probably not, but his scum mentality matches his here at a glance. I probably shouldn't even be trying any analytical shit right now, I'm baked and nearly drunk already (3.45pm). I think festive drinking and smoking goes a long way to explaining my impressive mvp performance so far.

[Desperado]

then he probably isn't scum

[Empire]

Day 2, Votecount 12

Ser Arthur Dayne (6)

-

Casso the King of Seals, Bert, Desperado, Cephrir, DOMO, pieguyn

Bert (2)

-

KoreanBBQ, Ser Arthur Dayne

Desperado (1)

-

Sakura Hana

Not Voting (9)

-

geists, MC Maraca, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, MafiaSSK, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan, Generic, goodmorning, BROseidon

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on January 11th at 10:10 AM EST (expired on 2014-01-11 11:10:12)

Mod Notes

-

BROseidon is V/LA until January 3rd.

[Generic]

If you want the town game of f16s I'm utilising DOMO it's in theme park, big brother HoH. There he was under heavy scrutiny, mainly by some hydra called minions, and that's the panic I'm referring to.

Minions was scum so it's worth knowing that when analysing f16s reactions.

[KoreanBBQ]

Really liking pie's recent post there.

Why? He just continues to sheep onto the highest wagon. Do you buy his explanation that since he's new he doesn't really know what to do in a large? I am on the fence about it. Though Pie says he's played as scum with GIF so when he gets back I'll ask him what a scumpie taste and smells like.

[Cephrir]

pieguyn: I liked his entry posts but he keeps doing weird things, like blowing up which seems really out of character in between calm posts. Tone is too cold for my tastes.

so you think it's weird when I make an emotional post, but when I make logical posts it's also weird bc the tone is too cold?
[/quote]
I have a slight dislike for the overall coldness even though it's probably a playstyle issue; breaking from it was annoying as well.

@Cephrir:

what do you think about 2268?

Good point; that sucks too.

- isome of his recent responses to the votes on him looked kinda townish

Unfortunately I agree with this somewhat but it's not sufficient for me to move.

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

[MafiaSSK]

I don't like the way the Arthur wagon looks...

[Casso the King of Seals]

Dissonance is one thing. Using the dissonance like you've been using it is a bit different.

unvote

Like we have been?

Why did you bring up the argument about SSK being a bad lynch even if he were scum then?

I'll be honest I just didn't want that lynch to go through when there were better ones.

I can buy this.

Based on the gunsmith claim, I am more suspicious of MafiaSSK. I think a mafia doc fits the setup well. I don't discount the possibility of him being a town doc and someone else being a mafia doc so I am somewhat ambivalent. I am thinking if there is a protective town PR, they should claim so that mafiassk can be lynched. Not sure if that is the optimal move yet so I'd rather have more discussion about this.

2 PRs for one scum is a bad trade, especially when that scum is SSK.

what reservations are you having about zmuffin?

The biggest reservation I have about Muffin is that he isn't engaged in the game. This looks different from his normal scumgame, sure, but what I'm expecting from him is to be a dominating town presence as opposed to some lurkfuck in the background; I expected Muffin-town in a playerlist to make a showing that's a hell of a lot more impressive than the one he's shown so far. Scum-Muffin also tries to take an approach to the game that no one really expects him to take and this meh, apathetic Muffin reeks of an approach like that.

also i dunno if the "elaborate plz" was directed at my comment about marketplace3 but going back to the way nacho has approached his read on me here, the thing i really didn't like about it (and something i couldn't really mention while marketplace was ongoing) is that nacho should really know this isn't how i play scum. he should know i like manipulating and trolling people as scum, and the fact he thinks my lack of engagement is something likely to come from me as scum is fucking bullshit. this is the biggest issue i had with the way he was trying to "sort" me.

I do know that this isn't how you play as scum, but I don't think it's how you play as town either. One of the things that really impressed me in Marketplace was the way you managed to be aware of a meta I assume you had for a while, shed it completely, and make up a new scum meta in what seemed pretty much on the spot. I'll admit that my initial approach wasn't a STELLAR PARAGON approach, but some sort of sorting process had to begin Day 1, and that was my move to open communication. The most demotivated I've seen you as town is in the N Large Theme, and I understood why you were demotivated there (it was the type of game where 75% of the game were lurkfucks), but I can't see you having a particular amount of trouble cutting through the noise and actually getting great reads from the whole thing, considering that the VI level in the game is pretty much nothing. I can imagine you've wanted to be town in a playerlist like this for a while (although it was funny as hell, I think drawing scum in Touhou was still a bit of a disappointment for both of us), and I was expecting you to come into the game with a bit more motivation and drive even though it would probably initially look a lot like your scumgame early. This approach of muffin being lazy as hell feels like you manipulating your meta to something that you know people will view as different from that terrifying scumgame of yours because it doesn't make sense that you're behaving this way as town.

[Casso the King of Seals]

TOWN ANGELS:
Geists
Maraca
Falcon
Goodmorning
Sakura Hana
KoreanBBQ
DOMO

ANGELS IN WAITING:
Bert
Generic
Pieguy
Cephrir

CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN:
BRO
Norlkaz
SSK
SAD
MuffinMan
Desperado

This is probably closest to where I stand right now, adjustments made. DOMO claim was crazy town when he made it and am pretty comfortable with him being in the townblock. If I could solidify the Angels in Waiting section to actual town angels, I would feel pretty great about the game minus the whole not having any real scumreads part.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't like the way the Arthur wagon looks...

And what are you doing about it?

[geists]

Nacho - compare and contrast zmuffin's play in this game with his play in the FEA game.

[goodmorning]

No miller doesn't mean there's no cop, because miller is a stupid role and good mods don't use it.

At any rate the Gunsmith probably DOES mean there's no Cop so let's not have a long drawn-out conversation about it?

because that's how you play mafia

This post gives me unease.

gesists, we need to figure some shit out today. What do you think of F-16's post where he asks me why I looked you up? I'm torn between it being unlikely scum would be so blatantly rolefishing, and not finding any town motivation. But it's kind of been brushed under the carpet, noone seems to have picked up on it. You'd think if he's town, scum would think there's grounds for mislynch there, but nothing.

I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.

ANSWERING YO QUESTION LOL FFERY GET MAD

I don't think it's any kind of rolefishing. When one is Town and goes "well I would not put them that high on my investigations list" then one might be concerned the person claiming is faking it. So it's a valid question.
I, for one, would have looked at Casso. So it's a bit odd for me that you picked geists because I had a decent townread on them, though I think I can see why you did.

Another game having a gunsmith in it so soon after ny167 is mindboggling.

Yeahhh we should stop talking about that game now before I cry

looking back on his D1 play, I'm not sure if I see the scum motivation in it. first off we had SC who practically had a death note signed thx to GIF scumreading him. instead nacho made a town case and stood by it. and now that he flipped town we know he wasn't trying to defend a buddy, so why would scum nacho directly stand against GIF and everyone who was supporting him (most of the player list)? especially bc he had every opportunity to mislynch SC and he didn't take it 0.0 he could be scum faking, but idk

I feel like you are describing WKing here. Am I wrong?

Dissonance is one thing. Using the dissonance like you've been using it is a bit different.

unvote

Like we have been?

There's been a bit too much excusing for my tastes.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

- the way he parked his vote on you D1, followed by parking his vote on me for a majority of the rest of the day. the one with me irked me a bit because i prodded him about it, and he said he wanted me to do something, and then i never did it and he backed off of me and now i'm apparently on the townier side of his middle-tier reads. i can maybe sorta understand it if something i'd done had changed his mind about me? but he hasn't mentioned me at all, really, so i dunno how that happened

This looks like textbook crowd folowwing not that I'm not guilty of that as well

I think I finally nailed what irks me so much about you. It's that you don't read the game, then shamelessly proceed to think you can analyze things you probably haven't even looked at.

Here, I'll help ya out:

1) Do you know what "crowd following" actually is.
2) ISO the mod and tell me the highest number the Pie wagon and the Muffin wagon ever go to while I was on them.
3) Figure out my position on the wagon.

Combine 2 and 3, and then compare them with 1. I think you'll find the results rather fascinating!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ceph is literally deja vu of Jason in The Wire game

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

looking back on it, why was my reaction one of the most boringest reactions in the world?

Because I had the same exact read as before I pushed you - which is boring because it wasted my time and really didn't effect my read at all.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

what the fuck?

first off, I thought SSK was null. how did he go from null to null-scum?

When he claimed. And I've already stated this before.