NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Empire]

Day 1, Votecount 28

Stuffed Crust (4)

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pieguyn, DOMO, Cephrir, KoreanBBQ

KoreanBBQ (4)

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MafiaSSK, Casso the King of Seals, Generic, roflcopter

DOMO (2)

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BROseidon, Desperado

Casso the King of Seals (1)

-

geists

Cephrir (1)

-

Stuffed Crust

roflcopter (1)

-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

MC Maraca (1)

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pitoli

Generic (1)

-

goodmorning

Not Voting (5)

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zMuffinMan, MC Maraca, Brian Skies, Tammy, Sakura Hana

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch! Deadline is on December 20th at 3:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2013-12-20 16:44:27)

Mod Notes

-

Ms Marangal head of MC Maraca is V/LA for a week. Sakura Hana is V/LA until Monday. Generic is V/LA for two days. pieguyn is V/LA until Friday.

[DOMO]

lol I found the word "DOMO" once in desperado's ISO, and that's his vote for me just.

Plucking votes out of thin are are we?

[DOMO]

thin air

[Desperado]

lol I found the word "DOMO" once in desperado's ISO, and that's his vote for me just.

Plucking votes out of thin are are we?

sorta

your jump on to sc was not good

[DOMO]

lol I found the word "DOMO" once in desperado's ISO, and that's his vote for me just.

Plucking votes out of thin are are we?

sorta

your jump on to sc was not good

You know this how exactly?

[Desperado]

what

[DOMO]

Forgive me for assuming that from your pov stuffed crust's role is unknown. So once again depserado, why would you think my switch is bad? Do you know something I don't?

[Desperado]

you seem overly concerned with what people know

why did you assume i was talking about sc's alignment and not your awkward/poorly explained reason for voting them?

i said "jump" and not "vote" for a reason

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

My problem is that most of the town looking players are very good players (Cephrir, Pieguyn, Giests). I wouldn't put it past any of them to be capable of getting me to townread them as scum so I am not as complacent as I would be if I had townreads on players of average skill.

NY159: Rust – Things of note are the frequent use of language where he acts like he is forced to do stuff like “

If I were to pick a scum read based on my first skim through the thread, I'd say BC is looking pretty bad with zab showing up as scum, he tires very hard to distance himself from zab.

” DOMO’s ISO breakdown contain almost entirely information instead of analysis. He also postures with statements like “

I can move him into scum camp if these questions are answered unfavourably for him.

” He consistently complains about the thread moving faster than his other game which seems like an implicit excuse for inactivity stemming from guilt due to the lack of content. Some of his posts like 1080 come across as fake and a little too certain about his reads. The way he defends himself in 1261 is interesting by saying “

I don't see why that's scummy.

” Rev uses WIFOM in 1274 while admitting his mistakes “

But I can't blame you guys for giving me heat for it.

” He also again makes excuses for his actions saying “

Why am I still awake

”. Rev can be quite devious as shown in 1760 where he thanks scum for killing a player who had a large ISO to read making it easier for him to catch up. TheReverend can fake paranoia very well as evidenced by 1760 where he throws in caveats for his townreads by saying “

unless bussing

” or “

unless very good at playing scum.

” He undermines his reads several times as shown in 1770, “

I could be wrong, but I am not in any hurry to lynch him.

” He also postures a lot by making statements like “

Yeah I'm not gonna be on the PH wagon any time soon

” in essence declaring what he may or may not do. In 1806, he spends quite a while justifying his push rather than explain why his target is scummy. This shows that he is very concerned with how his pushes looks as opposed to actually finding scum and pushing them.

I am not sure what I found scummy in this game based on this. I must have made a mistake. I am going to look through his town games to come to some sort of conclusion.

[DOMO]

I'm concerned about you telling me my "jump" is bad. You're either in no position to make that judgment, or you're scum.

I voted for stuffed crust because I wasn't convinced by his sincerity. That's as good a reason as I'm likely to find for lynching someone on d1. If you're not convinced by my sincerity, then that's fine. But it seems to me that you're voting for me for exactly the same reason as I voted for SC... so how is your switch from him to me and better than mine to him?

[goodmorning]

Yeah. I am unaware of whether he prefers town or scum. The other players I am referring to were Pitoli (for whom it seems to be a null-tell based on my last game with her), Cephrir (who said he was busy in the signup thread so it is likely null), GoodMorning (I still have my suspicions), and Desperado (but he is a competent scum player, so I doubt lurking is a scumtell for him).

lololololol

ask ffery if lurking is a scumtell for me

i dare you

[DOMO]

Interesting analysis F16.

Yes you are indeed spot on - my complaining about the thread speed was indeed me making excuses for lack of content... although I should point out this was entirely deliberate, since no-one was familiar with my meta, so I could get away with it. I am normally active and attempt to analyse, regardless of my role. I wasn't joking when I said NY159 is not a good scum game for a rev/DOMO meta dive. NY 165 is much better.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You were the only damn town player in the Oz game. It was like a crash course in DOMO-reading.

Unfortunately I misread your role as townish and you were scummish, although friendly to me. I think the only time I recall you being proper scum was in hydra with bulba, and it was him I was able to read. I might have problems with you when you're scum.

In an ordinary game I would have been horribly scummish in a burn it out root and branch way. In that game, I realized before the end of day 1 that for most players, their wincon would probably get easier if I recruited them. I felt bad for the players I was leaving to their own devices.

Then I found out that I could make the wincon of some players I didn't recruit easier, too, by recruiting their enemies.

I would never have expected that being cult leader would feel like such a townish role. And I doubt it will seem very townish if I ever draw it again. Oz was pretty unique.

This would have been a nightmarish player list to draw scum in. Worse than Xenoblade because everyone in this player list has seen my town game multiple times and several of them have seen my scum game as well. I'd still be off in a corner crying about it.

Anyway. Given our past games I expected you'd find me calling you town a bit troubling, but not fly-into-the-rafters alarming. Your reaction hit the right notes.

Cabd, your thoughts?

Wanted to comment on this as well. DOMO is perfectly capable of faking paranoia as scum even though he tends to be paranoid as town. So, the "reaction," I see it as null.

[BROseidon]

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.

I wanna talk about this.

[DOMO]

Wanted to comment on this as well. DOMO is perfectly capable of faking paranoia as scum even though he tends to be paranoid as town. So, the "reaction," I see it as null.

I'm liking your approach here. It would be pretty easy to consider my paranoia to be a scum tell, rather than null, to give you the excuse to join my wagon. You're doing a good job here of convincing me of your sincerity.

See desperado - sincerity is an important aspect of mafia. If one can determine if someone is sincere or not, one can determine his motive.

[Desperado]

I'm concerned about you telling me my "jump" is bad. You're either in no position to make that judgment, or you're scum.

I voted for stuffed crust because I wasn't convinced by his sincerity. That's as good a reason as I'm likely to find for lynching someone on d1. If you're not convinced by my sincerity, then that's fine. But it seems to me that you're voting for me for exactly the same reason as I voted for SC... so how is your switch from him to me and better than mine to him?

why am i in no position to judge the quality of your reads?

i thought that was the whole point of mafia

you also scumread sc because he was latching on to ssk as a "compelling case" which doesn't make any sense because you were also scumreading ssk.

like, don't you want ssk to get lynched? it didn't look natural.

[BROseidon]

My problem is that most of the town looking players are very good players (Cephrir, Pieguyn, Giests). I wouldn't put it past any of them to be capable of getting me to townread them as scum so I am not as complacent as I would be if I had townreads on players of average skill.

...give me a scumteam that you don't feel would be capable of all slipping by you given this playerlist...

[DOMO]

I'm concerned about you telling me my "jump" is bad. You're either in no position to make that judgment, or you're scum.

I voted for stuffed crust because I wasn't convinced by his sincerity. That's as good a reason as I'm likely to find for lynching someone on d1. If you're not convinced by my sincerity, then that's fine. But it seems to me that you're voting for me for exactly the same reason as I voted for SC... so how is your switch from him to me and better than mine to him?

why am i in no position to judge the quality of your reads?

i thought that was the whole point of mafia

you also scumread sc because he was latching on to ssk as a "compelling case" which doesn't make any sense because you were also scumreading ssk.

like, don't you want ssk to get lynched? it didn't look natural.

You're in no position to tell me my jump from whoever to SC is bad because, assuming you're town, you cannot know this. I might not like certain votes, but I don't feel the need to tell people that their vote sucks unless I have a pretty strong town read. So why are you chainsawing SC? Have you got a strong enough town read on him to feel the need to attack those who attack him?

I don't know about SSK. Just because I had a scum read on him, does not mean that remains fixed. Unfortunately, I do not know his or anyone else's alignment. So my uncertainy could very easily be explained by the fact I am town. I prefer to lynch SC at this moment. A SC scumflip would certainly look good for SSK.

[MC Maraca]

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.

I wanna talk about this.

I'm around.

[Desperado]

and again with the obsession with knowing or not knowing. you want to talk about insincere, jesus dude

there's nothing in your iso to suggest your read on ssk changed. you went straight from voting him to voting sc for his interest in ssk.

[Cephrir]

Town:

1. Tammy - More mara's read than mine.
2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) -mostly cabd head; you should be ashamed I beat you to a reads list.
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) oh hey these scumfucks snuck into my townblock?
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - mara's read
11. BROseidon - I have my reasons
10. pieguyn - you're not nearly as innocent child status as i'd like though
19. Cephrir - Mara has him down as super duper town
18. DOMO - Meta; being scum with him in 165

Meh:

6. Generic- not as obvtown as I would have hoped, will make mara sort later
9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.
8. MafiaSSK - the higher level of activity here as opposed to his past town games makes me wonder things.
15. Sakura Hana - Do something super town so I can put you up a rank please.
17. zMuffinMan- I can't read you for shit so I guess I'll just have to wait and see; nothing jumps out so far.

Not so Town:

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - Mara disagrees slightly
12. Brian Skies - The dismal amount of effort you're bringing here scares me.
20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific
5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - the lack of effort here is surprising me and actually kind of making me sad, worried the fuck out of me

In this game?

7. roflcopter - Bitching about large amounts of posts when that's how some players read each other won't get you anywhere
14. goodmorning - START DOING SHIT LIKE OMG
16. pitoli - SEE GOODMORNING

I'm kinda disappointed Mara has to be the one to read me, but I guess you've never actually had to read me before (almost), so you have some excuse.

20. Desperado - I'm not seeing the OMG PASSION town desp brings to games. I see "meh make a few posts" then coasting from the Atlantic to the Pacific

i'm trying something new

~Quote tags fixed. (Empire)

Well, it blows.

Forgive me for assuming that from your pov stuffed crust's role is unknown. So once again depserado, why would you think my switch is bad? Do you know something I don't?

I lol'd. NY165 Domo was way more wishy washy than this and way less flippant. Definitely shaping up to be my One True Townread this game (Not giving you the title yet, but so far I'm 3 for 3 on these, maybe better if I'm forgetting a game)

My problem is that most of the town looking players are very good players (Cephrir, Pieguyn, Giests). I wouldn't put it past any of them to be capable of getting me to townread them as scum so I am not as complacent as I would be if I had townreads on players of average skill.

NY159: Rust – Things of note are the frequent use of language where he acts like he is forced to do stuff like “

If I were to pick a scum read based on my first skim through the thread, I'd say BC is looking pretty bad with zab showing up as scum, he tires very hard to distance himself from zab.

” DOMO’s ISO breakdown contain almost entirely information instead of analysis. He also postures with statements like “

I can move him into scum camp if these questions are answered unfavourably for him.

” He consistently complains about the thread moving faster than his other game which seems like an implicit excuse for inactivity stemming from guilt due to the lack of content. Some of his posts like 1080 come across as fake and a little too certain about his reads. The way he defends himself in 1261 is interesting by saying “

I don't see why that's scummy.

” Rev uses WIFOM in 1274 while admitting his mistakes “

But I can't blame you guys for giving me heat for it.

” He also again makes excuses for his actions saying “

Why am I still awake

”. Rev can be quite devious as shown in 1760 where he thanks scum for killing a player who had a large ISO to read making it easier for him to catch up. TheReverend can fake paranoia very well as evidenced by 1760 where he throws in caveats for his townreads by saying “

unless bussing

” or “

unless very good at playing scum.

” He undermines his reads several times as shown in 1770, “

I could be wrong, but I am not in any hurry to lynch him.

” He also postures a lot by making statements like “

Yeah I'm not gonna be on the PH wagon any time soon

” in essence declaring what he may or may not do. In 1806, he spends quite a while justifying his push rather than explain why his target is scummy. This shows that he is very concerned with how his pushes looks as opposed to actually finding scum and pushing them.

I am not sure what I found scummy in this game based on this. I must have made a mistake. I am going to look through his town games to come to some sort of conclusion.

I'm flattered, but I assure you, I'm shit at town. Can't scumhunt my way out of a paper bag, although I can townhunt decently I think. I really appreciate this analysis, both in terms of insight into Domo and your thought process. I am reassured about your scumhunting credentials, because these seem like smart things to pick up on slash I buy them. If that makes any sense.

[Desperado]

Well, it blows.

so did your sheep of domo's retarded sc "case"

oh no how do i know that!!! i must be scum with inside knowledge for making a declarative statement!

get real

[DOMO]

Cephrir, what's your case on MafiaSSK?

@Sakura: I'd probably not like it! Anyways, what's your case on SSK?

Varsoon seems really interested in SSK here. It feels like a desire to latch on to a compelling case.

The first time I find "SSK" in varsoon's ISO is here...

Then give me a rundown of the game so far, your reads and why they stand that way, and then vote for Korean BBQ or MafiaSSK.

Yeah I'm really not convinced by varsoon's sincerity here.

vote stuffed crust

desperado, here is where I vote for SC, the jump that you find "bad".

It isn't just because of his interest in SSK, who you correctly point out I was scumreading.

I voted for SC because I didn't like the fact he was pressing two people in quick succession what their case on SSK was, yet SC's first post where he mentions SSK he's trying to force a 1 vs 1 wagon between him and BBQ.

That's why I think he lacks sincerity, it's why I voted for him.

It's interesting that the first time you mention me is your vote for me.

I consider pushing for the lynch of someone you have not engaged with or expressed any sort of opinion about to be a scum tell.

So right now I'm looking at you and SC, because you have both done exactly that.

pedit - retarded case? You're chainsawing him hard.

[Desperado]

yes, retarded case

you were trying to get ssk lynched and then you started swinging at someone who was helping you push your scumread

why is it scummy to push someone you haven't previously engaged? it's almost like voting you is my way of...engaging you

[DOMO]

you were trying to get ssk lynched and then you started swinging at someone who was helping you push your scumread

Why does this surprise you? That's what happens in this game. I'll pick up a read on player A, and then player B might say something that challenges that read. What you appear to be doing here is finding a town tell and presenting it as a scum tell. Town change their minds, because town has very limited information, and new information is constantly coming to light.

Pushing for someone you have not engaged with is, in my opinion, scummy, because it reeks of opportunism. In my experience, town tends to not give a shit if their reads change, hence my dismissing of your comments relating to my jump from SSK to SC. On the other hand, scum will tend to be opportunistic. By not giving your opinion on me earlier, you're not committed to an ealier read. You can jump on my wagon happily without having to explain why your read changed or anything like that.

Basically your attack on me reeks of scum motivated opportunism. You're using town tells against me, while dismissing my genuine concerns about your lack of reads on those you are hoping to lynch.

vote desperado