NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Your paranoia of ffery accusing you reminded me incredibly strongly about Newbie 1415 where you had certain paranoia but suppressed it until it slowly started building up and you threw out a vote and starting pushing for a lynch. Your paranoid reactions match those very closely. I know you can fake paranoia as scum like in the Mentor and Mentee game but it just didn't have the same progression/suppresion of reads and had a lot of other elements like hedging, subtle buddying, and unrealistic expectations that are usually not present in your towngame.In post 3055, Bert wrote:
My push on Geists made sense, but if it makes sense, why do you have them as strong town?In post 2881, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:His elaboration on Generic and Sakura reads made sense as did his push on Geists.
I explained why I have a townread on Geists. I have town and scum baselines for how ffery reacts when her reads are challenged (with variations accounting for how well she knows the target as well as how well the challenger knows the target) both in games I've played and the one I modded. This reaction and follow up matched the town baseline very closely and is very far from the scum baseline. I challenged her reads several times in the games we played together (read the HP game and Micro 252 for instance). The responses are alignment indicative.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Mara, I don't agree with your reasoning for pushing Tammy and I assumed that it was scum motivated. Naturally, I pushed you for it. The reasoning I provided was much the same that Tammy did. I agreed with her reasoning and conclusions. I pointed this out before. She explains it in her 779. We were clearly both wrong about your affiliation.
I also want to respond to this:
I think you misread my intentions because I certainly think Tammy is a big girl that is capable of using things like this to a town advantage. I merely agreed with her assessment of herself that scum would want to throw her off-balance and connected it with past experience. She elaborates on it in 779. This isn't something I deduced by myself.In post 3067, geists wrote:I haven't noticed anyone do more than handwave about the past 20 pages or so. I totally TOTALLY disagreed with his push on Maraca, and I thought he made too much of a deal about Tammy being some delicate flower whose day 1 effectiveness could be completely destroyed by a scumread. She's capbable of taking that kind of thing in stride and using it to advantage. I've seen her do it.
@ BERT, I never agreed with your read on Geists. I thought it made you town because it came from a town place. Unless you are claiming that I should believe town are always correct, it doesn't follow that I should follow your vote on them. I think you are both town.
@ Generic, I find your stance very scummy. You seem to posturing yourself to vote me based on Mara's certainty despite earlier saying that you were townreading me. Mara and I have played one game together and we didn't interact a lot in it either. You and I played in one game where we interacted a lot. Why would you trust her read over your own?
So, far out of the people that voted me, I find MC the most townish - even without the Mason claim, I think Mara obvtowned herself. I am inclined to believe GoodMorning is the other mason as it matches with MC's read on her and other's thoughts about it. I find Casso extremely scummy. Partly because Nacho is hanging back while Thor troll-votes anyone and everyone without regard to who is town or scum or has any reads at all. Most of his posts are alignment neutral but the fundamental difference is that I believe town-Thor would play to win. As of now, it doesn't seem like they are helping town win. The others on the wagon are null besides Bert who is town. Off the wagon, I am even more confident in my read on Geists. I am getting slightly paranoid that GIF thinks ffery is scum and he has lot more experience playing with her but I evaluated their slot to the best of my ability and still read them as town. Pieguyn's latest posts also re-affirm my previous townread as do Desperado's and Korean BBQ's.
:TOWN
1) Tammy
2) Geists
3) Desperado
4) Pieguyn
5) Bert
6) GoodMorning
7) MC Maraca
:YET TO BE SORTED
8) zMuffinMan - Leaning town
9) KoreanBBQ - Leaning town
10) MafiaSSK - Null
11) DOMO - Null
12) BROseidon - Null
13) Norlkaz - Null
14) Cephrir - Null
15) Sakura Hana - Null
16) Ser Arthur Dayne - Null
17) Generic - Leaning scum
:SCUM
18) Stuffed Crust
19) Casso the King of Seals
I think Casso is scum likely with Stuffed Crust, and possibly a couple of people in my null pile, Generic being a person of concern at this moment. Casso's vote on me is especially suspicious because Nacho knows how to read me really well. He's played plenty of games with me, I've asked for his advice on how to improve my game both in PMs and in public etc. If that slot has a read on me, it would be Nacho's and if they had a scum read, he would attack me extensively. Nacho sitting back and letting Thor throw in a troll vote doesn't match up with his town meta. Nacho also wouldn't be indifferent to having a read on me or let Thor take the lead.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Spoiler: Mara's read on Casso
Mara, I think you are wrong about Thor/Nacho for all the following reasons:
1) Nothing about Thor's entrance post was alignment indicative coming from Thor.
2) Thor is capable of making people laugh as town and scum.
3) Nacho is perfectly capable of whiteknighting as scum and making people feel good about themselves. He defended me as scum in a recent Micro we both played. It is non-alignment indicative. Both town and scum defend town and buddy them. You say he may have been cutting down on his later options but he can always change his mind so it doesn't mean anything.
4) I'll comment on 356 since it is referring to me. I didn't find it genuine. I rather thought he was exagerating my ability to read him.
5) So, he said he would read your slot through you as opposed to Cabd. Sure, he would do it as town. He would also do it as scum because he would beexpectedto do it as town. Doesn't mean that he is town.
6) Hydra communications - Desperado addressed this. I think they are using it for malicious purposes here. Thor is troll-voting people who Nacho knows intimately and can't vote without scumclaiming. Like me for example but also plenty of others. Nacho's options in this playerlist are very,verylimited. I'd love to see Nacho find any reason to attack me for instance.
7) He would be annoyed at not having a comp to pick up on crumbs even if he is scum. It could be genuine frustration or it could be faked.
8) Debating within their QT about Tammy's emotions served a scum purpose here. Nacho is townreading Tammy - LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO. Thor is trying to get on your side by agreeing with you.
9) Nacho takes your side, says you are town, and admonishes Generic for pushing on you. Again, scum can do this.
10) He townread you and got Tammy to back off. Again, you are basing it off of him seeing things from your viewpoint. I would have asked Tammy to back off too if I thought it was TvT. I didn't. I was pretty sure it was TvS.
Suspecting you and pushing for your lynch isn't a scumtell. Saying that you are town isn't a towntell. Town can be wrong and scum will townread townies.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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This is comforting.In post 3248, KoreanBBQ wrote:If it helps, its nero who's scumreading fery.
I'm ultimatively townreading her and whenever I see something off from the post, its apparently nati's post so I quietly withdraw my suspicion time to time.
I have tried to interact with you quite a few times. I can't interact with everyone at once. This being a large game does affect my reads. I have 5 solid townreads. If this was a Micro, I would have solved the game by now through POE or at least narrowed down scum to 2/3. I am concerned about you based on ffery's points and your general demeanor like the post I quoted which seems like posturing - because it doesn't make any sense. YOU have me as null and hadn't initiated any interactions with me where as I have. I asked you about your reads and your thoughts on the game state whenever I could catch you out of V/LA. You seem very much like an elusive, mysterious person who wants to be chased just for the lolz.In post 3250, Sakura Hana wrote:The lack of interactions of F16 with me and he still having me as null is scaring me.
I wasn't hardcore scumreading Casso until Thor's vote on me. StuffedCrust, my read has been building for a while. I haven't voted because I am not generally quick with my votes and take time to consider all options. Doesn't your experience with me match up with that?In post 3251, Bert wrote:Wait a moment. So the top two wagons other than yourself are your only concrete scumreads, yet you have not voted for either of them. Both of their wagons are not anything new. They have been here for quite some time, ever since I entered this game days ago.
Why wait until now to list two scumreads, both of them being at the top of the voting chart aside from you? That seems awfully convenient.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Bert, what do you think about lynching Casso instead?
I mulled over it and I am not sure StuffedCrust is scum. I think they are a red herring that scum Thor is setting up for fools who think Thor's scum game is as simple as avoiding a wagon on his buddy. Thor/Nacho are prime targets for investigations and if they do get investigated guilty and lynched, people will be looking at associative tells. I think Stuffed is a mislynch that Thor is trying to set up in the event that their hydra doesn't make it to endgame, and depending on PR actions, they likely won't.
If Stuffed is scum, Casso is likely town.
Sakura, I can't "easily" do meta on you. I have limited pockets on time to spend on this game and a meta-dive takes anywhere between 1-5 hours depending on the skill of the player involved and my experience with them.
You say you have no idea how to read me. Are you implying that you don't attempt to read players that you haven't played with? Because even you don't have a meta baseline, I think it is possible to evaluate a player's behavior in game.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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You are saying DOMO's comment persuaded you to unvote Casso?In post 3274, Bert wrote:I was voting them and then I saw stuff like this:
Falcon you don't have the reputation that Casso's heads have (yet), so... or at least DOMO doesn't know you probably, hence the "dream mislynch" commentIn post 2619, DOMO wrote:I've got so much to catch up on. I dunno if I'm gonna really have any time until after christmas, this site malarky has really made it tough to keep involved. I feel like I'm voting blind. Can some tl;dr a case on casso? That's nacho and thor, right?I'm not so sure I want to be killing off two strong players so early unless the case is compelling.This would be a dream mislynch for scum if they're town.
that's why DOMO felt so weird initially, posts like this-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I am just going to say it plainly. You are wrong about me Bert. I am town. Placing your vote on any player is more productive and more likely to hit scum than placing your vote on me. I am town as fuck here. Anyone that has played with me will tell you so. I am not completely sure who is scum at this point and I am still trying to figure it out while waiting for Sakura and Thor to post. All I know is that I am town and lynching me will lead to a mislynch. It will set us back a town player. It will prevent me from providing analysis that could POE the scum to death. It will prevent me doing deep meta-dives into each player in the game and helping town win. Don't vote me. Vote somebody else. Preferable someone absolutely useless who likely won't win the game for town even if they are alive. I have posted a ton of analysis and reads. I have initiated productive discussion with several players and attempted to sort them through various means. I have looked through people's past games to see recurring patterns. I have backtracked on my reads and revised and reconsidered at every point. I had unvoted MC even before they claimed Mason. I am a productive and helpful member of the town and I strongly believe that leaving me alive will exponentially increase our chances of victory. I am not scum. It is as simple as that. Don't lynch me D1 based off of absolutely nothing. Work with me to take the scum down.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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The net info will be more with a lurker lynch because you'll have me providing a massive amount of content. So, you lynch me and I flip town. Then what? The lurkers aren't going to give you a massive amount of helpful content. They are not going to win the game for us.In post 3298, Bert wrote:But falcon, lynching a lurker/useless one gives us little to no info to work off
Sakura's recent posts have pinged to me. What are your thoughts about her latest content and her interactions (mostly with Geists) earlier today?-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I've skimmed the past 15 pages but I'm going back to read in detail.
So, you are convinced now that Sakura is town and I am leaning that way as well. What's the Nacho reads-list looking like at this point?In post 3389, Casso the King of Seals wrote:F-16 3247:
I have no control of Thors actions. My read on you hasn't been upgraded to a strong townread until my most recent posts, so I haven't walled like crazy about it yet. I never told him to take the lead, but he did. Meanwhile... I have strong townreads on you and Stuffed Crust. I would like a better lynch so that neither of these things go through. Sheep me or find something better, please.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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You also saved Equinox in Yabbaguy's C9++ game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... =applejack) which I reviewed a while back. As it happens, you were scum, and your buddy McStab had a huge fight with Equinox. While he seemed to be losing initially, he bounced back, convinced a few people and turned the wagon on her. The town was very divided with Llamafluff and a few others supporting Equinox strongly while Inte and Bitmap staunchly supported McStab. The town was very divided and tensions were running high. At that point, you swooped in to save Equinox by pushing a bipartisan lynch on Defender (a lurker) and both camps were able to settle on a lynch. There were plenty of scum benefits there (you buddied with Equinox - who would be a threat to you, you got attention away from McStab without even looking like it, you were able to push a lynch approved by the major town players like Llamafluff). Looking at this situation, I see so many parallels. You come in to derail lynches on both Stuffed and me, you push a lynch on a lurkish Sakura, you try to get both Stuffed and I on your side while not doing anything controversial that might set alarm bells off for Tammy/ffery. I like that you eventually backtracked on Sakura though and I am reconsidering based on that. You never actually backtracked on defender in that game.In post 3392, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
DOMO, Muffin, Norklaz, SSK.In post 3388, Bert wrote:You're reminding me of Micro 189 where you just tunneled a scumread near deadline as scum and were vague about your other opinions's strengths
You looked in that game too much at the non-broader picture
You'll also notice that the situations between this and chosen are pretty fucking dramatic. Here, I'm saving the hell out of two players who are a threat to me and trying to kynch someone with a damn good chance of being scum. There, I tunneled on players and didn't comment in anyone else in order to avoid having to comment on NS the scummy as fuck mentee.
I am feeling slightly better about Casso though so they are back in my to be sorted pile. Nacho can be obvtown when he leads multiple scum lynches.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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In post 3219, Generic wrote:With this being very likely town you mara I want to listen to you on these reads... I just am seeing what's in front of me and f16 has only started to look a bit dodgy while under pressure, which I have seen dies hand from him as town in Big brother (and was exploited by me when I discovered this). Meanwhile casso as an entity trouble me, even though I can see the argument you give for the nacho posts.In post 3223, Generic wrote:My vote is wasted where it is for today.
unvote
Will give it some thought. Casso still looks the best option of the three main wagons but mara seems confident on the read.In post 3411, Generic wrote:nteresting how you sat on wanting to call me scum all game and in your blind panic jump on absolutely nothing f16.
Please show where I'm posturing for voting you. I see me actually defending you with a strong example from big brother hat this awful posting now shows you are town and then speculate with mara over NACHO whom I believe she hydras with.
Anymore bullshit you have you want to throw, cos this is the only time in all my posting you have tried to pin scum on me, and it's a total misrep.In post 3472, Generic wrote:P.s. F16, you are on my radar after that shot you pulled on me, everything else about your play was town f16 from big brother but the misrep just to pin a scum read on me is a low blow and not town play at all.
Okay, wow. Epic fail on my part. For whatever reason I read and interpreted your post as you saying that you think I am town but that Mara seemed confident in her read on me implying that you would eventually sheep Mara's read. I only saw on a re-read that you were talking about Casso.
With that said, I am interested by your reaction, Generic. Why do you automatically assume that I am scum misrepping you as opposed to town misinterpreting what you were saying? After all, you did the same with Pieguyn and you know that town can do it accidentally as well. What is the scum motivation to attack you out of the blue based on a fabricated misrep that could easily be pointed out to be wrong?-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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What made you change your mind? You initially joined my wagon based on Mara's case looking convincing. I find it problematic because the case itself really wasn't any good. I'm not just saying it because the conclusion is wrong or that it was against me (I've seen cases on town look very convincing). Mara's case essentially boiled down to how I was interacting with her slot and scumreading them. I pointed out why it was inaccurate in my graph which you decided to merely laugh at as you pushed the wagon. After the wagon on me got derailed, you move your vote as well saying you don't feel good about my lynch. I don't care that you frequently change your mind. I do find it scummy that your change of mind corelates with the momentum of a wagon very strongly. I want specifics in why you felt so good about my lynch earlier and now you don't. What pieces of evidence convinced you to change your read and how did it progress upward or downward as you read through the thread.In post 3417, DOMO wrote:Has this game beat xenoblade yet for d1 content?
I'm not feeling so great about an F-16 lynch.
I was thinking of defaulting back to varsoon but that wagon looks filthy.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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If this is your reason, it would be just as applicable when you initially sheeped Mara and laughed at my graph, would it not? What changed?In post 3441, DOMO wrote:F-16, I think we need to give him more time. I'm happy with mara, and believe she is sincere in her read on F-16, but F-16 seems like another strong asset when town and would be as much a fistpump mislynch for scum as nacho/thor, so there's caution.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Sakura, I feel rejected. You don't ask a guy out and then forget all about it in the middle of our date! Anyways, you haven't gotten back to me on what about my play bugged you that was original and not addressed before.
Also, I know you sometimes tend to self-vote or ask for your lynch as both town and scum. Can you provide me with links to games in which you did this? As many of each would do. 5-6 of each would be a pretty good sample.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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@ 3598: Mara, I haven't worked with you because you seemed very unapproachable. You barely engaged me and simply re-posted your case for the lurkers (which you didn't update after my responses). So, I reacted instinctively by trying to work with others as opposed to you. If you do want to work with me or actually try to sort me, I am more than happy to engage you so we can stop this pointless distraction and lynch scum. The "but that is not what you said before" arguments aren't things I can address for you because the statements themselves are accurate. But it isn't scummy to change my viewpoint.
Are you townreading Sakura and why?In post 3524, BROseidon wrote:
If you flip town I'll be all over it like white on rice.In post 3522, Sakura Hana wrote:
Because apparently "she's scum" is a good reason to lynch someone.In post 3521, BROseidon wrote:wtf is up with the activity this game and why are we wagoning Sak?
What is a blacklist tell and how did Sakura do it? Is it related to the quitting?In post 3574, Casso the King of Seals wrote:I'm thinking she's town. We are at a point of the day where Sakura pulled something equivalent to the blacklist tell, which is strictly a no lynching business.
I agree. I could go with BRO as well. MafiaSSK would be the fourth choice.In post 3590, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Or maybe one of DOMO/SAD? That group looks more likely to have scum in it than it did before.
Nacho's explanation for why I am town looks very town, particularly the part about making sure Mara understands it. His dismantling of Sakura wagon feels town as well - I agree with 3684 about the Nacho-read.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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This is great. I was thinking somewhat similarly but with a few modifications.In post 3715, Casso the King of Seals wrote:TOWN ANGELS:
Tammy
Geists
Maraca
Falcon
Bert
Goodmorning
Sakura Hana
ANGELS IN WAITING:
Generic
Stuffed Crust
Pieguy
KoreanBBQ
Cephrir
Desperado
CAST DOWN FROM HEAVEN:
BRO
Norlkaz
SSK
SAD
DOMO
MuffinMan-
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Yeah, providing them would be awesome.In post 3721, Sakura Hana wrote:I can provide links were i self-vote as scum, i cant remember where I asked to be lynched or AtE'd as I dont remember any of those =/
Glad if you can provide them tho-
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I wouldn't mind going with DOMO or BRO either. I still like the StuffedCrust wagon. I feel that is mostly town at the moment combined with the fact that it didn't go through earlier. The thing that makes me hesitate is Nacho's certainty that SC is town.In post 3771, geists wrote:Players of concern are Bro, zmuffin, domo and to a lesser extent Ceph and Sakura. I'm not totally buying in to the blacklist tell variant.
I have no idea how to read SAD or llamarble at this point.-
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I bought the "blacklist tell" that Nacho and Bert brought up and I don't think that Sakura would go so far as to say that she is quitting mafia while complaining about her lynch. I lean town on her. However, one thing that bothered me was her post in response to Bert:In post 3614, MC Maraca wrote:Sakura Hana
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
BROseidon
MafiaSSK/Bert
these are my null's in the order of towniest --> scummiest
In post 3567, Bert wrote:I've never seen her go 'I quit' and then change her signature as well
:/
That's just *shrug*
That's low if it's scum, and I don't see her going to these depths
This seemed as though she is trying to subtly backtrack on the blacklist tell because she is scum and feels guilty that people have used a blacklist tell to get off her wagon and spare her today. It could be nothing and I am not positive so I want to check the extent to which she will go as scum in order to avoid a lynch by looking through her other games. Probably won't happen today though so it is on the to-do list for tomorrow. Do you have any previous experiences with Sakura as scum self-voting/using ATE?In post 3568, Sakura Hana wrote:Except i thought i said im quitting Mafia because it's not fun for me anymore?
The rest of these players are in my YET TO BE SORTED pile. I think it is possible one or more of them are scum.
Norlkaz - Possibly scum due to the low amount of content. Llamarble as town is very active and very sharp with his reads so the low activity is concerning.
Ser Arthur Dayne - I don't like his defense of SSK based purely on the basis of SSK having low content and that his scum flip won't give us many associatives. It is far more important to actually lynch scum - the associatives will work themselves out. I am not sure if this is scum-motivated though.
BROseidon - He doesn't really seem to be in the game. He voted you, then voted me in quick succession. I find the fickleness scummy and he isn't engaged with the game. But I re-read through another of his towngames which I had read previously and he got mislynched for not being engaged there.
MafiaSSK - Claimed doc so we are not lynching him today.
Bert - I think he is town. The biggest tell I noticed was his buildup of suspicion on Geists and subsequent vote. His vote on me also looked town-motivated. He initially holds back his suspicion of me (I can tell because he was working to undermine DOMO's towntell on me without saying that he thought I was scummy), and once the repressed suspicion builds up and breaks the surface, he votes me. It matches up with Bert as town pretty well. Bert is generally paranoid of players he can't read, waffles hard, sometimes keeps his suspicions to himself, and if a player he thinks is fairly good gets wagoned or if he is paranoid, he hops right on. It is recurring trend in his towngames. Newbie 1415 and Newbie 1436 are examples of his town paranoia.
I assume your scumread is Desperado:
Desperado - I initially read him as town based on how he picked up on things to attack me that make sense from his POV very well. For instance, in Big Brother: HoH Mafia, I spent a ton of time accusing him of being scum because he had an early townread on another player. It made sense for him to attack me based on that. When I pointed out a few counter-examples, he quickly dropped it and went after SC instead and it felt very genuine. My townread is stronger now since he is picking up on a lot of things that I thought too - like his late push on DOMO, and his push on Sakura for retracting her scumread on Casso very easily.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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:TOWN++
1) Tammy
2) Geists
3) Desperado
4) Pieguyn
5) Bert
6) GoodMorning
7) MC Maraca
POSSIBLY TOWN
8) Sakura Hana - Pending meta-dive
9) MafiaSSK - I thought his analysis of his wagon looked town. If town, he'll probably be nk'd soon anyways based on doc claim
10) Casso the King of Seals - Pending Nacho showing off his awesomeness by wrecking the scum
11) KoreanBBQ - Mostly gut. Some paranoia of GIF for his very good scumgame
12) zMuffinMan - Same as KBBQ
13) Generic - Back to thinking he could be town but not sure
:YET TO BE SORTED
14) BROseidon
15) Norlkaz
16) Cephrir
17) Ser Arthur Dayne
18) DOMO
19) Stuffed Crust
I am pretty sure there are no scum in the top group. There could be 1, maybe 2 scum in my possibly town pile. The rest I think are in the bottom pile.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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You are kidding, right?In post 3790, MC Maraca wrote:Explain Pie-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I agree with this and I am going to go with Stuffed Crust.In post 3781, geists wrote:
If Mac had done something more than drunkpost after he got the reprieve I'd probably feel better about him. But he basically did another fade after the governor signed his pardon, so to speak.In post 3780, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I wouldn't mind going with DOMO or BRO either. I still like the StuffedCrust wagon. I feel that is mostly town at the moment combined with the fact that it didn't go through earlier. The thing that makes me hesitate is Nacho's certainty that SC is town.In post 3771, geists wrote:Players of concern are Bro, zmuffin, domo and to a lesser extent Ceph and Sakura. I'm not totally buying in to the blacklist tell variant.
I have no idea how to read SAD or llamarble at this point.
VOTE: Stuffed Crust-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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My initial thoughts were that you were a PR who learned that Giests was town last night and then made up reasons for why they are town especially with your talk about role fishing. I was about to try and diffuse the situation but then I saw this post. Why claim so easily?In post 3877, DOMO wrote:
Yup you're scum. You didn't stop and think "shit maybe he did get some night info", you're persisting with "this is retarded".In post 3871, Generic wrote:Not role fishing, just mocking the fact you pushed that one read as a form of answering my question. Glad you are do proud of such a retarded way of reading someone, your actions tell me all I need to know about you right now.
And in the process you're showing me that it isn't retarded.
Also, can you answer my questions to you from D1?-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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This is another post I am taking to be a "near-blacklist" tell and reading Generic as town. Also, meta matches up more closely with Wingate than BB:HoH.In post 3951, Generic wrote:Also, continue pushing you?
So you misrep me, vote for me because I didn't respond to your questioning of me immediately, you continue to change the arguement to point how I'm not acting town to you and then you cry that I won't stop defending myself and tearing your bullshit apart?
Don't kick the beast then, I am borderline autistic and recently discovered my family were being exposed to carbon monoxide poisoning. I warned you earlier in his exchange I was in the mood to tear a moron a new arsehole, jjust because you chose to be that moron suits me fine.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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In post 3842, Casso the King of Seals wrote:What are your modifications?
Town+:
1) Geists
2) Bert
3) Pieguyn
4) MC
5) GoodMorning
6) Generic
Town in waiting:
7) Desperado (Tammy's read made me paranoid so I'll wait till I meta-dive him more fully)
8) Sakura (again meta-dive)
9) DOMO (need to meta-dive to be sure I am seeing town)
---
10) Casso (lead a scum-lynch please)
11) SSK (die at night please)
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12) KoreanBBQ (not as sure after Stuffed's townflip)
13) zMuffinman (was gut-town but considering other townreads, I am not sure)
Leftovers:
14) BRO
15) Norlkaz
16) Cephrir
17) Arthur-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Cephrir, a few questions:
1) Explain your reversal of read on me. Everything you quoted in your catch up post seemed like you found it scummy.
2) Are you serious about the posts of Sakura that you quoted saying that you agreed why she was run up?
As for your 4045, I thought you were probably scum through POE but I wasn't hardcore scumreading you until your post about the frequency of my readslists. It smacks of scum painting null things as scummy. It was the final straw in a list of catchups I didn't like.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Awesome. Looks like we can catch scum together after all. What are your thoughts about the players in my leftovers pile?In post 4035, MC Maraca wrote:And for the record, there's an internal fight going on about f16 and casso in our Skype area. Cabd (me, hi) says f16 town after last few irl days of day 1. Mara thinks opposite. flip respectively for nachothor.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Based on the gunsmith claim, I am more suspicious of MafiaSSK. I think a mafia doc fits the setup well. I don't discount the possibility of him being a town doc and someone else being a mafia doc so I am somewhat ambivalent. I am thinking if there is a protective town PR, they should claim so that mafiassk can be lynched. Not sure if that is the optimal move yet so I'd rather have more discussion about this.
Desperado, can you explain your scumread on Giests and your townread on BRO? I have the opposite feeling about Geists and BRO isn't one of my townreads.
Arthur, can you explain your townread on me? You seemed fairly sure I was scum before but now you have me as one of the least scummy. Also, I'd like to know the reasons for your scumreads on Desperado and Geists. Elaboration on your Bert scumread beyond Nero's case would help as well (assuming that is why you voted him). I don't have scumreads on any of those players.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Okay, I like that your read reversal is internally consistent. It seems like you re-evaluated your reads based on the nk. 3930 matches up with that theory.In post 4314, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
Your scum-partners could agree better with you when you say "I don't want to kill Tammy because she's townreading me and we're bouncing off ideas off each other and I feel I can influence her when we need" rather than were I to say "Hi I don't want to kill Tammy because I'm enjoying playing with her".In post 4313, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Arthur, you agreed with me that a Tammy nk shouldn't necessarily make you town but you townread me based on it, why? Wouldn't the same reasoning apply to me?
Cmon bro. Too ez.
Cephrir, I'd like a response to my questions in 4101.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I am leaning towards SSK being scum doc because it fits in so well but I think the more prudent move is to wait so that DOMO can get in more investigations.
Desperado, I agree that Pie, Generic, and Bert are likely town. I am not entirely sure about BRO. I am not convinced that a misunderstanding of the gamestate is more likely to come from town.
ffery, I am really looking up to you to step up and the lead. I've been thinking about what Lllamarble said: "In a game this large I believe it is difficult to lynch scum without a couple of town leaders" and I remembered Hunterx mafia where we lynched scum on our consecutive days mostly because there always was someone leading the game. For instance, the Gammagooey wagon happened D1 because Vi pushed through the lynch despite a lot of distractions. Without someone leading the game, the influence of the mafia will be strong and I feel it unlikely we are actually going to lynch scum because most likely only town wagons will go through with scum opposing the scum wagons. You being a competent player and probably as close to conf-town as we have right now are our best shot at getting a scum lynch and I'll happily vote with you if I find your reasons convincing. Hoping to hear Nat's thoughts as well since his posting has faded away for a while now. Who do you feel most confident about being scum and why? I am not positive about anyone being scum, even Cephrir. I am starting to doubt that my leftovers pile actually contains the majority of scum. I am getting cold feet about Arthur being scum as well.
DOMO, I was suspicious of you at that time I asked for your reasoning on Geists and wanted to delve into your thought process so I hopefully understand your motivations better. I didn't think it very unlikely for scum to breadcrumb PRs and your breadcrumb wasn't exactly flawlessly executed. This is an interesting interpretation and it is true that I don't feel great about your choice of investigation. I think you should have checked someone less readable - like Casso or Muffin for instance.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I am not the best person to tell you that since I am scumreading Cephrir based on his posts about me which is hardly unbiased. I'll re-evaluate his interaction with other people and go through his other games when I find time. I read through your argument with him and I didn't find anything alignment indicative. I can see "misreps" coming from both town and scum. I had a huge argument with Bulbazak in Micro 252 where I thought he was scum because of perceived misreps on his part but when I took a step back and objectively analyzed his posts, I realized he was town. Cephrir's play reminded me of Bulbazak's a lot in that he tends to attack nearly everything his scumreads do so a similar strategy like not looking into what he said about me in particular might help figure out his alignment. Let's try this: you go through Cephrir's posts about me and offer your opinions. I'll go through his posts about you and offer mine.In post 4321, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
Hi, you seem like a reasonable fellow in this town of crazies please tell me you see where I'm coming from with Ceph and that I'm not just seeing everything he does as scum and it's an ad hom attack.In post 4317, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Okay, I like that your read reversal is internally consistent. It seems like you re-evaluated your reads based on the nk. 3930 matches up with that theory.In post 4314, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:
Your scum-partners could agree better with you when you say "I don't want to kill Tammy because she's townreading me and we're bouncing off ideas off each other and I feel I can influence her when we need" rather than were I to say "Hi I don't want to kill Tammy because I'm enjoying playing with her".In post 4313, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Arthur, you agreed with me that a Tammy nk shouldn't necessarily make you town but you townread me based on it, why? Wouldn't the same reasoning apply to me?
Cmon bro. Too ez.
Cephrir, I'd like a response to my questions in 4101.
Also, what is your read on Desperado? In 4113, you talk about how you are going to prove him to be a moron at endgame implying you think he is town. Has your read changed since D1 and when you posted your tiers? What other reads of yours were influenced by the nightkill?-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I explained in posts 3057, and 3788. I played quite a few games with Bert.In post 4346, KoreanBBQ wrote:F-16 explain Bert town.
Newbie 1415 - Both town
Micro 247 - Me scum, Bert town
Micro 254 - Me town, Bert scum
Newbie 1429 - Both scum
I also read through another game of his in real time and figured out that he was town (Newbie 1436). ffery also has a lot of meta-experience with Bert so syncing on Bert-town is re-assuring.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Here's where I am at:In post 4347, geists wrote:Yeah, I know I need to roll up my sleeves and choose a direction. I haven't been good at leading in recent games - at least not with a good target in hand.
What I really want to do is some PoE with strong town reads. But, I feel like my strong town reads aren't feeling any more strongly about their scumreads/PoE than I am.
It's going to wait a day or so.
Spoiler: Reads-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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Nearly all of your catch-up posts about me seemed to indicate that you found my posts scummy. Your townread doesn't make sense based on your catchups.In post 4351, Cephrir wrote:
OK, thought I already answered these.In post 4101, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Cephrir, a few questions:
1) Explain your reversal of read on me. Everything you quoted in your catch up post seemed like you found it scummy.
2) Are you serious about the posts of Sakura that you quoted saying that you agreed why she was run up?
1) It never reversed. I did quote a few things I found scummy, but still wasn't scumreading you.
2) Mostly, I guess.
You also seem to have pre-conceived positions about what the ideal gamestate is and a lot of things that you say about other players are generally compliments when they meet this ideal or disagreement when they don't meet it. For instance, some of the things that were concerning.
149: First instance of voting StuffedCrust (it is the wagon you push all the way to the end of D1)
451: Says that scumreading you is a towntell. Why? You weren't involved in the game, were inactive and lurkish. Certainly you are a good target for the scum to suspect and probably push a lynch on. Town are potentially also likely to give you slack for it and not lynch you just for being disengaged.
954: You claim that GoodMorning's posts suck and that your "eyes glaze over" everytime you read a Generic post. I can't relate to this. You later says the same thing about my posts. An interesting observation is that you don't explain why GoodMorning's posts suck or why you liked Brian's quote-stripe. This matches up with your read on me where you don't explain much at all. I will check through your other games to see if it is a hallmark of your town or scum meta. Help from those who played with Cephrir before (Nacho, ffery, Cabd, BRO, and others) will be appreciated.
957: Dislikes MafiaSSK's entrance into the game and agrees conditionally with DOMO saying that you are "a fan" of DOMO snap-voting on that.
960: ...What? (This might become important later on a meta-basis).
961: Agrees with my objection to Pie's GoodMorning read. Also tells Pie "It's not a stats course? THAT'S the line you're going with? xD"
There are several other interestingly worded quotes in this post and is worth checking out:
1. "Why the hell are you townreading me again?"
2. "And then you let this go immediately? Huh?"
3. "Could it be? DO I actually like a Thor post? Call that rapture guy, I think the world is ending."
969: "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" in response to MafiaSSK possibly expressing dislike of his post.
1132: Agrees with DOMO's position about StuffedCrust (you had previously suspected Stuffed Crust so it falls into my pre-formed positions argument)
1147: "Whaddaya know, SSK is posturing to suspect me later." - Preformed position: SSK is scum.
1529: Why is everyone voting this
I just
Don't
Understand (This is said with regards to DOMO)
1571: Gurl lookit dat 180
The most striking thing I found from your posts is that you generally seem to have a pre-formed position in your mind. Whenever someone agrees with that position, you encourage and cheerlead them. Whenever someone disagrees, you critisize them for it. I'll point out several examples.
Firstly, you believe that you are scummy as shown in post 451 and you later townread people who are scumreading you. I find your townread on Geists for scumreading you very comfortable and completely lacking doubt - you are too self-assured about their scumread.
Secondly, you don't like/scumreads MafiaSSK as evidenced in post 957. Your further posts towards MafiaSSK are critical such as the "eeeeeee" in post 969. I am not exactly sure what the "eeeeeee" is supposed to accomplish from a town POV but it seems as though it is a declaration of your position. These declarations show up in many other ways such as the rhetorical "...What?" in post 960. I am going to term these sort of things "Rhetorical expressions of surprise." It is basically when you take a position and wonder why everybody doesn't share that opinion. Other examples include showing up at random times and asking why certain things are hapenning. For instance "why are we lynching X" when a quick glance at the previous few pages should give the questioner all he needs. It is more pronounced when the questioner doesn't actually want to know the answer but wants to take a position that lynching X is absurd and so wants to pretend that everyone lynching X is crazy/scummy.
Thirdly, your position on Stuffed Crust is that they are scum and you therefore agrees everytime someone pushes on them with examples being 1132.
Fourthly, the position on me. 2744, you say that my post rubs you the wrong way. 3695, it again seems like you scumread me. You mention that when you read my posts you like them but it is rare. I am assuming it means that it is only the rare post that gives you a townread which doesn't make sense with your final position. 4021, when you give a plus sign to Thor's terribad vote on me is another example. My first concern is your pre-formed position that votes on me are good and thumbs-upping everyone who does it regardless of how terrible their reasoning is. My second concern is that this position makes no sense with your apparent "townread" on me. Your motivations and thought processes are unclear. 4289 is another example.
Fifth, your position on Pie is mostly one of random criticism of his posts which I can't really relate with.
I also wonder why you have never taken a step back and reconsidered things after championing the SC lynch D1. All you did was show up from time to time saying that SC ought to be lynched. They finally were lynched. They flipped town. Now, you pop up from time to time talking about how Arthur needs to be lynched. 4379 is deeply troubling. You had a similar stance toward SC - you couldn't wait to see them lynched. Each day, all you do is try to get someone lynched. There is no effort at scumhunting or sorting people. You barely ask any questions. You are merely quoting things you don't like with nonsensical phrases like "yuck," "eww," "eeeee" etc which does jacksquat to help me understand your thought process. I don't see any effort from you to actually find scum as opposed to just lynching someone. Your case on Arthur is weak. It is not the kind of stuff that yields scum lynches.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I don't take offers of self-lynched seriously and I doubt anyone would lynch someone just because they offered to be lynched which makes it a fine gambit for scum. I am null on KBBQ.In post 4402, geists wrote:This is Nati's scumpile. I'm putting some of my own thoughts around it.
Pieguyn - Nati has a scumread. I have a mixed read. There was one post in his back and forth with me that I really liked, and I backed off on that basis. But there is a sentence in another post I keep coming back to because it feels fucking fake.
BBQ - I keep thinking about Cabd pushing through a TiP day 1 lynch in the Xenologue game, and getting away with such a bad "misread". GiF's confidence in reading Varsoon is pretty high. But, his offering to be the lynch instead (at a moment when I was seriously considering doing the same) and his characterization of the lynch as a Christmas Miracle when we lynched a town PR just feels like something that scum wouldn't do. Nati found his SSK lynch post at the start of day 2 very troubling.In post 2652, pieguyn wrote:ffery what the fuck you better not be scum
Can you link those scumgames where Sakura gave up and self-voted? I think I might be able to do a compare and contrast with her towngames to see if there are underlying motivations that can be spotted.In post 4402, geists wrote:Sakura Hana - the blacklist tell isn't as convincing as all that, the more we think about it, and there are too damn many players in our town pile.
It is true that town-Desp makes his presence felt more strongly. I am not sure if this is related to his meta-change and it being a large game but I get a different vibe from his posting than I do from the game I modded or past games with him.In post 4402, geists wrote:Desperado - Nati's gut read, lack of presence. I feel like he's not putting a lot of effort into pushing his reads, and not doing much to organize town, which I associate with town-Desp. Nati has had good luck spotting scum-Desp lately
In post 4402, geists wrote:I'm finding it really difficult to move these four out of my nullpile and not also move Norlkaz and zmuffin. But, Norlkaz is an almost complete unknown, and if zmuffin will finish those ISOs and post some reads I'll have something solid to base a read on.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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This doesn't make sense given your posts about Geists:In post 4457, MafiaSSK wrote:
You. Because you are an important asset to town.In post 4456, geists wrote:Who did you protect last night?
In post 4453, MafiaSSK wrote:I don't think geists should be given the trust as being such an official town leader. Natirasha is very reactive, and that's really not good when deciding on a very rushed or heated lynch.In post 1268, MafiaSSK wrote:So the best that both ffery and you can come up with is gut? Super weak, Nat.In post 1065, MafiaSSK wrote:Nat hasn't posted much on geists in this game. As such, I have no real read on them. I don't understand ffery and ffery doesn't understand me.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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I read through Nacho's reads list in the Perpetual MYLO game and it doesn't seem similar to those reads-lists at all. Nacho's reads morph to fit what is generally accepted to the town. For instance the Bert townread after being questioned on why Bert is an Angel in waiting. The Pieguyn townread after it becomes apparent that he won't be lynched considering I showed in detail that he is playing to his town meta. I also strongly disagree with the Cephrir townread.
Top scumreads in order:
Cephrir
MafiaSSK
Casso
VOTE: Cephrir-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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It is the extreme nature of throughout your posts that I found scummy. You agree withIn post 4474, Cephrir wrote:Why is that scummy or anything but normal?everythingthat matches your position with no paranoia or backtracking or constantly changing reads. I find it more likely that scum will stick to a position and champion everything that agrees with that position.
Also, if you are town and think you are playing badly, then step it up. If you don't have much of a case on Arthur, why are you pushing so vehemently for his lynch? Your push is disproportionate to the strength of your case.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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It isn't. I have actually read through one of your scumgames (Newbie 1429) where Bert replaced you and I replaced Beginner. From what I recall, your predecessor was obvscum but you turned the slot around fooling even very good players like Nacho and ffery and by the time you were finished with it, everyone was convinced that the slot was town. Bert and I managed to push through a win in LYLO both based on our predecessor's play. This corroborates with other scary things that I hear about your scumgames so I am holding off on taking a definitive stance on you until I gather more information about you. I may probably even end up trying to read Nero if he turns out to be easier to read.In post 4484, KoreanBBQ wrote:I would call f16 super town too if his read on me didn't look fabricated.
@ Pieguyn, I haven't forgotten about your post. I'll come to that soon.-
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon Mafia Scum
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- Joined: October 24, 2012
- Location: The Sky
I was torn about SSK. On one hand, even if he were scum, I felt that it would allow DOMO to give us one more perhaps crucial investigation. But at the rate this is going, they'll probably kill him anyways and claim that SSK was roleblocked or whatever because it doesn't really seem like anyone is buying his claim. I am leaning towards just lynching SSK today. Will think about it.