NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Titus]

Ok, I will try to compile mine in the next 48 hours.

[KoreanBBQ]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

Lets lynch me instead.

I'm a VT, so nothing to lose.

I'm tired, stressed, and totally done with this game.

*whistles*

[zMuffinMan]

Why are they wierd? Why do wierd reads make you want to call him town?

if he's scum he either hasn't read his scum QT or scum haven't been discussing this game at all or he's doing a good job of acting completely oblivious to what's going on in the game right now

[Casso the King of Seals]

In 4725, you say that the major reason that you were reading Cephrir town was completely wrong and completely faked. How did that read come back? Did Cephrir's defense of you and saying that he will allow himself to get lynched in your place the sole or primary reason for the resurgence of your townread?

Cephrir read ended up good. I was still feeling Cephrir town after I went through Cephrir's posts in ASOIAF and got general vibes from it. The defense was a primary resurgence for a townread, yes. Do you think it's a faulty one?

Your reads post looks a lot different from the one in Perpetual MYLO in that you have no scumreads to which you can point out and strongly say that you are scumreading them. It seems like you are townreading almost everyone while pointing out small concerns from your scumreads. For nearly everyone, you made sure to point out some town things they did. Why is it that you are not confident in any of your scumreads to the extent you were in other town games I've played with you (BB:HoH and Hunterx being a few examples of games of similar size)?

I'm happy lynching SAD. I'm happy lynching SSK. After that, things get a bit dicey. Perpetual MyLo was a perfect storm where I had ffery to flesh things out behind the scenes and we work absolutely excellently together, I was under absolutely insane pressure from wanting the first game we played together to be a good one and crazy amounts of pressure with the person I know best on the site rolling scum and us having a very strong read on them being scum, which sort of helped the rest of the scumteam fall out. This game, we have SSK pegged pretty much by nothing but luck, SAD pegged fairly solidly, and then this weird middle ground where I have pretty solid townreads on very strong scum players and not so strong scumreads on different good players, meaning that there's a little wait and see approach to wait either for the good scum players to become insanely town (like what's happening with Cephrir's slot, Titus push on the softclaiming vig is town as hell) or for the not so strong scumreads to become strong scumreads or town it up (Llamarble).

Interesting, why has my name suddenly popped into reckoning for you?

It's not exactly into reckoning for me, but I'm not exactly comfortable with you being at the top of the top when you tell me oh so often how I will never manage to catch you as scum.

[geists]

I thought Titus was scum for a good portion of the game (all of it?). I don't really have a good read on Titus at the moment, but Cephrir still seemed town.

Nati and I both disagree with you on this. We both have strong scum reads on Titus.

For the rest of the thread, Nati said something that caught my attention in hydra chat last night. He trusts a nacho town read from Mara and Sakura over a nacho scum read from F-16 and GM. I agree, but that's not why we're townreading him.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Do you have a scumread on Titus based on her posting?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Cephrir read ended up good. I was still feeling Cephrir town after I went through Cephrir's posts in ASOIAF and got general vibes from it. The defense was a primary resurgence for a townread, yes. Do you think it's a faulty one?

Yeah. I felt that it was unreasonable and manipulative and definitely not something outside the range of capabilities for a player like Cephrir.

I'm happy lynching SAD. I'm happy lynching SSK. After that, things get a bit dicey. Perpetual MyLo was a perfect storm where I had ffery to flesh things out behind the scenes and we work absolutely excellently together, I was under absolutely insane pressure from wanting the first game we played together to be a good one and crazy amounts of pressure with the person I know best on the site rolling scum and us having a very strong read on them being scum, which sort of helped the rest of the scumteam fall out. This game, we have SSK pegged pretty much by nothing but luck, SAD pegged fairly solidly, and then this weird middle ground where I have pretty solid townreads on very strong scum players and not so strong scumreads on different good players, meaning that there's a little wait and see approach to wait either for the good scum players to become insanely town (like what's happening with Cephrir's slot, Titus push on the softclaiming vig is town as hell) or for the not so strong scumreads to become strong scumreads or town it up (Llamarble).

I don't see Titus's push on the soft-claiming vig as alignment indicative at all. Explain why it is town.

[KoreanBBQ]

Titus push on the softclaiming vig is town as hell

It becomes scummy pretty quick when she's keep pushing stuff that is proven to be blatantly false.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I thought Titus was scum for a good portion of the game (all of it?). I don't really have a good read on Titus at the moment, but Cephrir still seemed town.

Nati and I both disagree with you on this. We both have strong scum reads on Titus.

For the rest of the thread, Nati said something that caught my attention in hydra chat last night. He trusts a nacho town read from Mara and Sakura over a nacho scum read from F-16 and GM. I agree, but that's not why we're townreading him.

I don't really agree with Mara's reasoning for reading Nacho town. My read has weakened somewhat through interactions with Nacho but that is based more on his responses making some sense and addressing all the pent up suspicion I had fairly well. I also strongly disagree with Sakura's read on the Casso slot. It doesn't make that much sense. I must be missing something completely. I'll admit though that I don't agree with GoodMorning's reasons for scumreading them either. What of Mara's and Sakura's reasons for reading Casso town were persuasive? What do you think of zMuffin's, Llamarble's and Pieguyn's take on it?

[geists]

Do you have a scumread on Titus based on her posting?

Yes. I was fencesitty as hell about cephrir.

[geists]

I thought Titus was scum for a good portion of the game (all of it?). I don't really have a good read on Titus at the moment, but Cephrir still seemed town.

Nati and I both disagree with you on this. We both have strong scum reads on Titus.

For the rest of the thread, Nati said something that caught my attention in hydra chat last night. He trusts a nacho town read from Mara and Sakura over a nacho scum read from F-16 and GM. I agree, but that's not why we're townreading him.

I don't really agree with Mara's reasoning for reading Nacho town. My read has weakened somewhat through interactions with Nacho but that is based more on his responses making some sense and addressing all the pent up suspicion I had fairly well. I also strongly disagree with Sakura's read on the Casso slot. It doesn't make that much sense. I must be missing something completely. I'll admit though that I don't agree with GoodMorning's reasons for scumreading them either. What of Mara's and Sakura's reasons for reading Casso town were persuasive? What do you think of zMuffin's, Llamarble's and Pieguyn's take on it?

It's not the reasons really. It's the conviction. They both have a lot of experience playing with Nacho. I remember in the recent Open game of Bros that we played, scum-Mara said something like she'd assume nacho-town because I can read him better than she can. That post alone pinged, but I was already dead with a null-scum read on her left behind in the game. Mara is not going to ever defer a Nacho read to someone else and she's not going to townread him without feeling pretty good about the read. Sakura on the other hand, is more like me - she's been bitten with a bad town read recently. She had Sangres as town in NY 167 so though her reads tend to be gut based and she likes to obscure her actual reasons for her reads so she doesn't give away advantage in future games, feeling this sure coming off a game where she got it wrong gives me some confidence in that read.

I came into this game having misread nacho-scum in two very recent games (Touhou mini and Marketplace) and I was extremely cautious and suspicious in the early-to-mid day 1. The thing that sticks out to me in this game is that you can tell many of his reads aren't confident and it's impacting his stances. That doesn't track with his scum games. In fact it reminds me a lot of his stance on me in the Pinniped game. He had me as likely scum but couldn't nail the read down and wouldn't really act on it without that confidence.

[Generic]

@ Proph, I have a town read on ms marangal and I mentored her when she first started playing on our old site. If you want to discuss why you have a scum read her I will tell you where you have gone wrong because she is one of my stronger town reads.

Geists is technically clear currently because of DOMOs gun smith result, because they are either town or scum doc so the odds suggest town for he time being.

Beyond that I need to scrutinise you as much as possible because you replaced a suspect of mine. Wasn't a strong read because it was bert, but he was acting more oddly before he left the game.

The plus side is that I have an idea what to look for with you so let's play ball!

@ Titus, who says I care about meta? I utilise it when I have a strong knowledge of feeling about a person, but when I see tells or convenient/well timed responses or actions I delve a little deeper.
And you walked into a slot that thought I was an easy target, and when they realised I have teeth they resorts to "I'm such a victim" posting.
If your response to me is to sell me your meta with a qualifier that you don't believe in meta (what I like to call a trap door argument) then I'm not being sold.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ffery, that makes some sense. Is Mara also the type to have gut reads and the obscure her real reasoning by providing other (probably weaker) reasons in-thread to not give away strategic advantages?

Generic, your point about Cephrir resonates with me because one of the things I found off about him was his interaction with me. When no one suspected me D1, he defended me calling Sakura's FOS on me "moonlogic" in 959 and expresses approval of my objection to Pieguyn's GoodMorning read in 961, agreeing with me on Rofl in 1071 and in general treading very carefully. He also appreciating my meta-dive of DOMO in 1320. However, after a few people suspect me, his tone then changes with him starting to throw slight suspicion in 2744, 3695, and 4021. However, after I start pushing on him, he backs off and again starts reading me as town which I feel is similar to what you describe. I didn't feel that his reads had any genuine scumhunting behind them but rather sucking up to universally townread players while setting up suspicion on players that could be suspicious which is what I gathered from his interaction with me.

[Generically Purple]

Not quite what he did with me but it's similar mindset.
It depends how well he knows you, because by what you claim he took a stance that you would be a pack leader, saw potential opportunity when you were under suspicion to push that wagon but immediately backed off when he realised he would be the focus by you.
With me he seemed to think I would be low hanging fruit (why I am not sure) but then when he realised our argument would draw everyone's focus tried to make his wagon toxic by claiming he was very mislynchable.

I wanted to give Titus a chance. Still waiting to see her deliver something. Proph opened with some early thoughts, Titus seems to be sniping at current posts and making excuses. That's an immediate red flag.

[Generic]

Not quite what he did with me but it's similar mindset.
It depends how well he knows you, because by what you claim he took a stance that you would be a pack leader, saw potential opportunity when you were under suspicion to push that wagon but immediately backed off when he realised he would be the focus by you.
With me he seemed to think I would be low hanging fruit (why I am not sure) but then when he realised our argument would draw everyone's focus tried to make his wagon toxic by claiming he was very mislynchable.

I wanted to give Titus a chance. Still waiting to see her deliver something. Proph opened with some early thoughts, Titus seems to be sniping at current posts and making excuses. That's an immediate red flag.

That's me.

[geists]

ffery, that makes some sense. Is Mara also the type to have gut reads and the obscure her real reasoning by providing other (probably weaker) reasons in-thread to not give away strategic advantages?

Mara's play in general is more opaque and her early posts with reads are often put out there mostly for reaction testing. It's one of the reasons I have trouble reading her sometimes. I think her gut is extremely informed by meta, especially experiential meta.

[Titus]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

Lets lynch me instead.

I'm a VT, so nothing to lose.

I'm tired, stressed, and totally done with this game.

*whistles*

So you "claimed" under absolutely no pressure at all, trying to draw a lynch to yourself and we're all supposed to a) believe you and b) believe that's something town does?

Also, for those of you scumreading me, how about throwing me a question or two rather than making me try to read tea leaves through all these accusations that I am scum. What about my posting is off? Just saying someone is scum over and over is exactly how mislynches get pushed through because no one looks at the reasoning.

[Titus]

ffery, that makes some sense. Is Mara also the type to have gut reads and the obscure her real reasoning by providing other (probably weaker) reasons in-thread to not give away strategic advantages?

Generic, your point about Cephrir resonates with me because one of the things I found off about him was his interaction with me. When no one suspected me D1, he defended me calling Sakura's FOS on me "moonlogic" in 959 and expresses approval of my objection to Pieguyn's GoodMorning read in 961, agreeing with me on Rofl in 1071 and in general treading very carefully. He also appreciating my meta-dive of DOMO in 1320. However, after a few people suspect me, his tone then changes with him starting to throw slight suspicion in 2744, 3695, and 4021. However, after I start pushing on him, he backs off and again starts reading me as town which I feel is similar to what you describe. I didn't feel that his reads had any genuine scumhunting behind them but rather sucking up to universally townread players while setting up suspicion on players that could be suspicious which is what I gathered from his interaction with me.

Or maybe he read you as scum and your responses convinced him otherwise?

[Titus]

@ Proph, I have a town read on ms marangal and I mentored her when she first started playing on our old site. If you want to discuss why you have a scum read her I will tell you where you have gone wrong because she is one of my stronger town reads.

Geists is technically clear currently because of DOMOs gun smith result, because they are either town or scum doc so the odds suggest town for he time being.

Beyond that I need to scrutinise you as much as possible because you replaced a suspect of mine. Wasn't a strong read because it was bert, but he was acting more oddly before he left the game.

The plus side is that I have an idea what to look for with you so let's play ball!

@ Titus, who says I care about meta? I utilise it when I have a strong knowledge of feeling about a person, but when I see tells or convenient/well timed responses or actions I delve a little deeper.
And you walked into a slot that thought I was an easy target, and when they realised I have teeth they resorts to "I'm such a victim" posting.
If your response to me is to sell me your meta with a qualifier that you don't believe in meta (what I like to call a trap door argument) then I'm not being sold.

I'm not trying to "sell" you anything. I'm trying to give you a whole picture while guessing as to what is fueling the suggestion that I am scum. I'm not by the way. The context seemed that meta played a factor in your decision, so I provided it. Just because I wouldn't use something, doesn't mean other smart players won't.

[KoreanBBQ]

3. giests are cleared by gunsmith
4. KoreanBBQ is

town as hell

scum that tried to softclaim vig.

FTFY!

Lets lynch me instead.

I'm a VT, so nothing to lose.

I'm tired, stressed, and totally done with this game.

*whistles*

So you "claimed" under absolutely no pressure at all, trying to draw a lynch to yourself and we're all supposed to a) believe you and b) believe that's something town does?

Also, for those of you scumreading me, how about throwing me a question or two rather than making me try to read tea leaves through all these accusations that I am scum. What about my posting is off? Just saying someone is scum over and over is exactly how mislynches get pushed through because no one looks at the reasoning.

Yes and yes.
You jealous?

[KoreanBBQ]

But hey don't go stray off the main topic.
The point here is that you are deliberately ignoring the context and stuff and sniping posts no-context to make an accusation.
That's scummy as hell.

[Titus]

Now, that's just utter bullshit. I don't ignore the context. How the hell was I "ignoring the context" of your vig softclaim? You need to say something more than your OMGUS shit. You're practically screaming Vig and then just try to do VT afterwards. If one is caught, you say "the context was clear I meant the other".

You could say

I'm a vig: I claimed VT so I wouldn't get shot.
I'm a VT: It's what I claimed straight up, the softclaims were me trying to get killed.

Yeah, pretty fucking convenient. That's your context. Of course, when you lost the fact you couldn't be a vig and you were claiming something you weren't you try to deny the softclaims entirely as it is your only move left.

[KoreanBBQ]

Ya know
That claim happened before the vig flip.

[KoreanBBQ]

So you are ignoring the context

[KoreanBBQ]

If you actually took the context into the consideration, it is painfully easy to see where that "vig softclaim" came from, under which circumstances did my claim + selfvote csme from, etc