TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[izakthegoomba]

/confirm

Hi all, back from my V/LA now. I'll read and post later.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, I'm up to date.

I think massclaiming this early is a TERRIBLE idea. What possible advantage could it give us?

And jilynne/future replacement is scummy, for reasons which include meta I can't mention. Ongoing games.

But Vifam really sticks out like a sore thumb here, and is still a few votes off of lynching, so

VOTE: Vifam

[izakthegoomba]

S/he last posted 27 hours ago. We probably won't be waiting too long.

I do wish people would use the VOTE: tags.

[izakthegoomba]

@ZeL1ink the way she has done nothing towards this game, just tries to get through with the bare minimum. This actually coincides with my ongoing-game meta reasons very well.

And yeah, I know she dropping out of everything. I guess she didn't have time for ten games.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, Vifam, are you trying to get yourself lynched or something?

Has Jason gone and stuck a bloody jester in this game?

[izakthegoomba]

No.

[izakthegoomba]

Try sigging it. Might help.

[izakthegoomba]

I'm not sure I agree with that method of scumhunting, but whatever.

[izakthegoomba]

But scum claim PRs just as often as town, if not more, right? Does it really mean anything?

[izakthegoomba]

Meran, you're being stupid. You lurking through D1 only plays towards ScumMeran's wincon, and away from TownMeran's one.

Junpei, you're being almost as stupid. Do you really think we have a jester here? Come on, jason's been here two years, you think he doesn't know how how much some people HATE jesters?

But the rest of your argument against Meran is fine.

UNVOTE: Vifam
VOTE: Meransiel

[izakthegoomba]

I read two things from that

1) You've been in 2 larges and lurked in 1 and are now using some made up meta based on 1 of 2 games to justify lurking here. This tells me that you want your meta to be lurking day 1. This isn't something you do out of principle, you just really want to have an excuse to lurk day 1, and that is bad.

2) Pushing hard on you makes you talk

lynch Meransiel

This may seem like nitpicking but is that anything special, or just a mistake? I agree with those points, though.

@thepersonwhoicantrememberwhoaskedmeformyscumreads I'm slightly struggling to keep up after arriving late. I will get back to you on this though.

Also, I don't really see that Chevre is that scummy.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

[izakthegoomba]

*sigh*

I do tend to pick up a certain... reputation.

But yes, I did ask for a roleclaim. I expect he's a Lyncher or similar, but if he wants us to let him play alongside us, I want his full co-operation.

And I have very little to say about the accusations against me.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't see either of those. Could someone link me to where he was mod-confirmed, or where he townslipped?

[izakthegoomba]

I don't think I buy Zinger's roleclaim. He could well be scum, or a dangerous third party. Even I'd he tells the truth, the fact that the town is the majority will mean he hits town more often than scum. I'm more than happy to lynch him on this, but if Meran won't hammer (why?), who will?

I will not let Zinger hammer me.

What's the alternative? If you were at L-1 and he wanted to hammer, how could you stop him?

Unless you're a dayvig or something, but thats unlikely.

[izakthegoomba]

Well I'm not persuaded by that claim, and even if it's true, it's quite possibly a threat to the town.

VOTE: Zinger

[izakthegoomba]

By the way, I've been lying to you all. I'm actually the town doctor.

Except I'm not, that was a lie. Or was it?

So, you claim third party, try to convince us to let you live, talk about how you're so harmless... And then go laughing at us with that? Fail.

I did not claim an anti-town third party role. You are distorting the facts.

No, you have plenty of potential to hurt the town, and you have a separate win condition to us. You are, by definition, anti-town.

Refusal to acknowledge the facts means you are either an idiot or scum. Probably the later.

Now you're just making stupid accusations when your plan has all gone wrong.

So you can go fuck yourself. And I mean that personally, not with regards to what is happening in this game.

Personal attack. Open insult. Entirely unjustified. You just made the "never play with again" list!

I am a jailkeeper. Which means I also protect my targets, but I guess that's not something worth considering for you guys.

I'm not sure if you are implying that we are stupid, or just digging yourself in deeper here. But no, the fact that you roleblock, and can PERMANENTLY roleblock if you fulfil your WinCon, means you are dangerous to us.

I've noticed the majority of players on this website are overconfident and arrogant and rude.

Yes, Zinger, because in the three months you have been here you have encountered the vast majority of players on the site, played games with them, and determined that the majority of them have not a decent bone in their bodies... No? Then stop talking about what you don't know about.

First, this game is only a small sample of the site. Second, even in this game, do you think even half of us could be classified as ALL THREE of those?

The playerbase here sucks.

Kindly close the door on your way out.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah Zinger, just ignore me.

How about you try to be useful for a change? Because right now I see no reason for us not to lynch you today.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh god, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse. Why, Zinger? WHY? You are playing the worst game I have ever seen, by a LONG way. The third-party claim. The lies. The attempt to make us all uncertain.

We lynch you today. Worst-case scenario, we lynch a Townie who was playing a really awful strategy and who would have been a serious hinderance if left alive. Best-case scenario, we lynch a scum who went on the stupidest gambit ever.

But whatever happens, I'm blacklisting you, and I hope others will do the same.

[izakthegoomba]

Do whatever you feel is best, but above all, do whatever you feel is most entertaining.

Yes, Zinger. Because this game exists solely to entertain jason.

*facepalm*

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, do you think one is more likely to be non-town than the other? (Why?)

[izakthegoomba]

@Zinger in the unlikely event that is true, your gambit is incredibly stupid.

I totally agree with Pinky above; whatever Zinger's alignment, we could really do without him around. The fact that he has lied at least twice, insulted the whole forum, and admitted that he is not taking this seriously means he is, without a doubt, the best lynch today.

@Junpei that is a very interesting lie. When I have the time I will take a look at it myself.

@Leonshade sure, I was going to but kind of forgot.

Cognitive dissonance from joking about jesters and then calling people stupid for talking about jesters. Probably caused by me (correctly) calling out his intent behind his first post.

I was quite obviously joking when talking about Jesters, while Junpei was not. The way I see it the two are (quite obviously) completely separate.

The Vifam slot "sticks out like a sore thumb". He then suggests the claim is null, and then unvotes without elaboration, even though he surely should still want to lynch Vifam given that the claim is (in his opinion) null?

I was merely musing over whether the claim meant anything. As far as I remember, I never said it was null. I unvoted because I thought Meransiel was more worthy of a vote; my opinion of Vifam hadn't changed. Since then, I got what I wanted with the vote, indicating that it was the right move.

He can't provide any scum-reads, even though he's voting for Meransiel?

Not strictly true, I just haven't put my reads into a list.

Of all the people to randomly give a read on, Chevre, who has made just 2 posts with content?

There was some focus on Chevre at that point. I was just making my stance known; how can that EVER be scummy?

[izakthegoomba]

V/LA until 31st July. Wish me luck... I think...

Mod: V/LA noted. Good luck, whatever it is you are doing.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, just got back to this.

Given the state of things righ now, I'd be fine with a Silver lynch, though I want to look into it a bit more before I place my vote.

However, Junpei's reasoning for the track target is flimsy at best. Plus, from what I've heard, Vezok is a regular VI.

@Vezok I know this has been said already, but do you know if Junpei is lying?

Also, I'm waiting on this whole neiborizing thing MoI has going on.

[izakthegoomba]

@MoI well, now that you've outed him, I can totally see what you mean. I am still leaning towards silver more, but is there anything in particular that makes Andrew very scummy?

[izakthegoomba]

I've looked over this again, and with MoI's info, I think that andrew is scummier than silver.

VOTE: andrew

[izakthegoomba]

Ok I'm kind of in limited access and have a few pages to read but I'll do my best here.

I'm pretty sure andrew's scumminess has been discussed already, and there is very little to add to that discussion.

Thinking on it, I get some scummish vibes off of Rodion, but I'm not confident of this read.

silver is my second choice for today's lynch.

I will have to re-read sometime for more reads.

[izakthegoomba]

@Junpei yes.

@ThAdmiral but you would still lynch me as a second choice? What have I actually done wrong? I know I've not been most useful but I don't see anything of mine as especially scummy, so please enlighten me.

[izakthegoomba]

Yes, and I'm pretty sure shotty's reputation is more widespread than mine.

@Meran I'm not always so useless. This is the second game (not counting my first ever game (Newbie 1094) which, TBH, is totally meaningless) in which I've really screwed up and made myself look like scum. You've just had the misfortune to be in both that one and this.

It would be much fairer to label me "unpredictable" than "always this scummy and useless".

[izakthegoomba]

I have already said that I read silver and andrew as scum. Other scummy people include:

Meran (thanks in no small part to Pinky's snooping)
Junpei (lots regarding that is based on D1 stuff, including what Vifam did, but Junpei has done nothing that improves my read)
ZeL1nK (weak read, it's the whole claim-vig-but-reluctant-to-claim-kill thig that irks me (as a side note, has he claimed who he shot yet? (sorry if he has)))
Rodion (general feeling from his posts)
Peregrine (same as above)

[izakthegoomba]

Is that a hammer?

My five are

Andrew
Meran
Silver
Rodion
Shotty (heavily dependent on the next few nights)

[izakthegoomba]

That

is a hammer.

@Mod: V/LA until 19th August

Good job it falls on a night.

[izakthegoomba]

Holy fuck, why are so many people so scummy? I guess it's time to dust off my Scumdar™.

Castle Bravo - 9/10

drmyshottyizsik - 8/10

Meransiel - 7/10

Junpei - 7/10

Rodion - 7/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

PeregrineV - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

Mysterio - 5/10

FourseenCircumstance - 5/10

killerjester - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

MagnaofIllusion - 3/10

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee I actually spent a good 20 minutes looking for an alternative colour for 5-6/10, but couldn't find anything that worked. Call me OCD if you must, you wouldn't be the first.

And no, it's not at all like Vollkan's method. I think scumhunting by numbers is a total waste of time, and you need to get reads by much more than the scumminess of their posts - consistency, interactions, VCA, and NKA, among others, can all play important parts. I simple went down the playerlist and typed in the numbers from my existing reads, and my instinct. That way, every possible factor is accounted for as I see fit, and there is no scope for a post to be unfairly weighted.

So, as you can see, the Scumdar™ is far superior.

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee well, we'll just have to disagree on that for now. You have your reads, I have mine. And yes, the top (red/orange, high numbers) is scum.

In accordance with my (and, I think other people's) reads, I propose we do the following:

• Run Castle Bravo up to L-1

• Have somebody scummy who we don't mind losing place the hammer (I suggest Rodion for this - even though Shotty is scummier than Rodion on the Scumdar™, my read on Rodion is less dependent on future events).
• If the chosen person refuses to hammer, we policy lynch them the next day - the knowledge of this will force them to risk hammering, as not doing so would

guarantee

their fate.

To this end,

VOTE: Castle Bravo

NOMINATE TO HAMMER: Rodion

(totally unofficial)

[izakthegoomba]

@shotty/silver/vezok but what about my idea?

[izakthegoomba]

Well, Rodion could easily be an SK (knife, not gun) or some other harmful third party. And anyway, if I was scum with Rodion, why would I risk putting a buddy in danger so unnecessarily? I have previously mentioned several other scumreads, so why would I not pick one of them?

In fact, the only reason I didn't suggest shotty is that I'm curious about his rather complicated role, and want to see if it could be true.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: Castle Bravo

Someone else please put him at L-1, since I seem to be a candidate for hammering.

We need a decision, though.

[izakthegoomba]

So, who are we going to have hammer?

[izakthegoomba]

Another clear? Who is our currant clear?

[izakthegoomba]

NO DON'T HAMMER

We need to pick out someone who the majority want dead, or don't mind losing, to hammer.

I suggest shotty does it - if Castle Bravo is indeed a bomb/super saint, then shotty's flip will give us plenty of information.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, if you guys want me to hammer, I'll do it. I am not a power role.

[izakthegoomba]

Mysterio is entirely right. There is nothing wrong with the speed, size, or intentions of the wagon, and Rodion just pinged m Scumdar™.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, weak doctor is the way to go if shotty doesn't die today. Here's the best way to play this IMHO:

• Shotty hammers Castle Bravo today - if he's scum, good. If he's a bomb/super saint, we get valuable info.

• If shotty survives into the night, he does his weak doctor thing on a scummy person. If he lives, that person can be almost cleared by the next step (there is a chance of a Mafia Doctor targeting shotty to fuck with us) - if he dies, we get our info. Note that his death doesn't out the person he targeted, as he could have been NK'd.

• If shotty is still alive, we just lynch him tomorrow, get our info, and possibly almost-clear his night action target.

Whatever happens, shotty has to die for us to go forward here. So let's pick his night target and get on with it. (PEdit: yeah, what he said)

Oh, and for those questions:

1 - Im uncertain, which is why we need him dead. I think it's slightl more likely to be true than false, though.
2 - No, we need a night target for shotty before we lynch. However, there was NO GOOD REASON to derail the wagon - I was very happy for it to be left at L-2. It prevents stupid/scum-self hammers, but keeps them close to lynch. Here's no point in dropping it further.

[izakthegoomba]

So rainbow, if you were a Vig, who would you shoot?

[izakthegoomba]

I could live with Meran hammering (but would he do it?). Why FC to get doctored?

[izakthegoomba]

Well I'll re-read FC ('s slot?) later and come to a decision.

@Banshee/killerjester ok

[izakthegoomba]

@DX kindly explain how (the mortal so of) skimming a very small section while rushed and missing the No Gun result (which, by the way, still doesn't clear him from being SK OR OTHER THIRD PARTY) makes me scum.

Also, while I recognise that this seriously lowers he chances of him being scum and I was wrong to push him for the hammer, he is not totally CT.

And then as SK, which would require no less than two blocks in a row, on N1 and N2? I'd even say N3, as usually SK kills are more graphic than that..

1. Why does this make me scum? Would scum not stop pushing at that point?

2. It could easily be made up of two protects, or two RBs, or one of each, plus an unusual kill flavour. But stop trying to outguess Jason, the method an SK uses, and what gets a gun result, are up to him.

PEdit: Dammit DX, you can't ask a mod that!

[izakthegoomba]

So, if any of us are scum, we're PRs? What an odd role. Anyways, since I don't think killer is scum, I believe that claim.

Therefore, I don't wan't FC dead unless he does something seriously scummy.

[izakthegoomba]

@MoI since when did you get to dictate who hammers today? I was under the impression we were free to choose that as a group.

@killer perhaps it's not as good as some others, but we still can't afford to lose a claimed town PR.

[izakthegoomba]

@MoI as I already said, I skimmed one section, when I was I a hurry and just wanted to get a quick post in. And how did I "give that up"? You are looking for non-existent reasons to deny me an opinion. You just pinged the Scumdar™. Speaking of which...

Castle Bravo - 9/10

drmyshottyizsik - 7/10

Meransiel - 7/10

Junpei - 7/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

PeregrineV - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

MagnaofIllusion - 5/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

Rodion - 3/10

killerjester - 2/10

FourseenCircumstance - 2/10

Mysterio - 2/10

Is that a better yellow?

[izakthegoomba]

Waaaaaiiiiit a second, I just noticed something. MoI is ALMOST DEFINITELY not scum. The reason?

andrew

. Scum wouldn't neiborize a partner, and all the evidence points towards a single scumteam. There is a chance of a non-killing anti-town faction, but it's slim enough for me to believe MoI is town. Plus, I guess I overreacted to the last few posts.

Also, since I believe killer's claim, I think it is quite reasonable to drop those two to town reads.

And finally, 5/10 is null.

The amended Scumdar™ reads:

Castle Bravo - 9/10

drmyshottyizsik - 7/10

Meransiel - 7/10

Junpei - 7/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

PeregrineV - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

Rodion - 3/10

MagnaofIllusion - 2/10

killerjester - 2/10

FourseenCircumstance - 2/10

Mysterio - 2/10

[izakthegoomba]

I propose an experiment. Just for fun. None of us post ANYTHING for six days, and we see if Jason prods or modkills anyone.

[izakthegoomba]

All I can say is this:

Fuck you, Rodion.

Anyways, I imagine this changes nothing strategy-wise?

VOTE: Castle Bravo

[izakthegoomba]

@DX oh yes, I lol'd at that.

Big tBBT fan, and a bit of a geek. That episode pictured...

So shy does this change so much? We know Rodion was town. Big deal. Me, fourseen, and Mysterio are ProbTown. Useful, but nothing massive for our lynch choice. And Junpei was genuine, which just means we've missed out on at least a night of results, thanks to Rodion. So why have we suddenly changed our minds?

[izakthegoomba]

CB, DMSIS, meh. I'll go either way.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: Castle Bravo
VOTE: PerigrineV

If DMSIS is telling the truth, we clear him and catch the SK. If DMSIS is lying, he is NearConfScum and we lynch him tomorrow. Simples.

[izakthegoomba]

When did I say I believed it? I just wan to go along with it because however it pans out, we catch scum.

[izakthegoomba]

Peregrine, fullclaim NOW

[izakthegoomba]

Fine.

Scumdar™ time!

Castle Bravo - 9/10

PeregrineV - 8/10

drmyshottyizsik - 8/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

Meransiel - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

MagnaofIllusion - 2/10

FourseenCircumstance - 2/10

Mysterio - 2/10

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee yeah, I know, but they've done nothing scummy FMPOV. I'm not questioning their townieness now, because there are several others that are far more likely to be scum than they are. If one/both of them got near the endgame with me, I would consider that they were scum after all.

@DX well I'll have another look at him now you've mentioned it, but he just hasn't stuck out as either town or scum FMPOV.

[izakthegoomba]

@PeregrineV obviously, if one of you two flipped scum, my read of the other would go right down to 2 or 3. Likewise, a town flip (RC flip from shotty) would send the other even higher. Right now, I see both as equally possible, and both of you have WAY above average chances of being scum, hence the 8/10 reads on both of you.

[izakthegoomba]

So what is this alliance?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, let's go with this then.

UNVOTE: PeregrineV
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[izakthegoomba]

Fourseen, RTFT

[izakthegoomba]

Can't we just decide one way or the other? Either of them gives us info. Both of them tell us what to do next.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't care... I'll go along with a lynch on either of them. As I said already.

@DX subtlety is not always a virtue

[izakthegoomba]

That isn't L-1 is it?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok just checking.

UNVOTE: shotty
VOTE: Castle Bravo

[izakthegoomba]

Wow. The scummies should have a "biggest dumbass" award.

I have blacklisted Castle Bravo and his alt, GreyICE. People shouldn't forget the latter.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

There is nothing more to be said.

[izakthegoomba]

@shotty Because your death gives us a ton of info.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh god, shotty, you've been dodgy all game, but this is just awful.

[izakthegoomba]

Fourseen is confirmed to be non-goon. That makes him CONSIDERABLY less likely to be scum.

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee I think they are among the least likely to be scum that we have here. Two scum PRs have flipped already. I think there is probably one more, maybe two. Given that, it is statistically unlikely either of them are scum. Also, I do not read either of them as scum.

I think the most likely to be scum is silver. I've read him as scum right through this, and shotty supposedly clearing him and then flipping Mafia Rolecop makes me even more suspicious, as he was probably trying to protect his scumbuddy. Also, since we could have a Rolecop in the town, shotty was probably truthful in saying that silver had no powers.

I am not suspicious of Ze1ink anywhere near as much, because shotty reported something against Ze1ink's claim.

Therefore, I am pretty damn certain silver is a Mafia Goon.

VOTE: silverbullet999

[izakthegoomba]

@silver what's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to softclaim something?

[izakthegoomba]

Potential stupid question...

Why would anyone claim SK?

[izakthegoomba]

I neither believe nor disbelieve peregrine. Shottyncould have been trying to frame a townie who thought it would be great to turn it into a gambit, or shotty could have really found out that peregrine was a Holy SK, and claimed that result to get town cred.

[izakthegoomba]

I think it's time for me to re-read as well. I'm not too confident in my reads ATM.

[izakthegoomba]

Under almost any other circumstances, I would be jumping onto a Fourseen bandwagon without a second thought. I'm a little uneasy, what with the whole non-goon thing, but it's not like we're at LyLo - or even close. Despite everything, I think Fourseen could well be a scum PR.

VOTE: FourseenCircumstance

[izakthegoomba]

I'll go look at those game when I have time.

Off-topic: when you go to ISO someone it let's you add a second name, but the second dropdown doesn't work... help?

[izakthegoomba]

@Mod: VC please?

I'm willing to hammer silver. Not sure if it's L-1 yet, though.

[izakthegoomba]

@DX I wasn't sure how close silver was to lynch, I was just saying I could hammer, if the need arose.

@Fourseen trying to WIFOM us? Try harder.

[izakthegoomba]

Vezok's in the lynch pool?

[izakthegoomba]

Well for me it's Fourseen, Silver, and Peregrine. I just don't see scum in Jaka, and as for Vezok... I'll probably have to ISO him, he's one of very few I haven't really looked at.

I know I had Fourseen down as town, but it was just the non-goon thing, and what he's done recently overshadows that.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, vezok is town.

[izakthegoomba]

I was the first to vote Fourseen? O_o

Anyway, we have:

Nero
Vezok
ZeL1nk
Meran
Peregrine
Mysterio
Silver

We only need two of them to agree, if we are to lynch Fourseen.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, so we have a full wagon. Good to know.

[izakthegoomba]

ZeL1nK, why DX? I'm just curious.

[izakthegoomba]

Not Fourseen, then? Do you think he is town?

[izakthegoomba]

@Meran I wasn't expecting one, I just wanted to know.

So are we going to lynch any time soon?

[izakthegoomba]

@silver because nothing's happening. A third VCA won't change anything at the best of times. The fact that we got a VCA from MoI, who died the next night, means that it was probably the one to follow, and scum hoped to throw us off the scent by killing him.

[izakthegoomba]

Night, night.

[izakthegoomba]

NO WAY are we at LyLo.

And it would be MyLo on an even number anyway.

[izakthegoomba]

@Meran in a way, that's good, because it makes it more likely that the scum has only one or two members left.

I don't want to lynch Mysterio today.

I could go for Peregrine, perhaps, but I'd be open to suggestions.

[izakthegoomba]

Is there any reason not to massclaim right now?

[izakthegoomba]

Yes, I've only ever seen Popcorn, and it seems better than the others on the wiki. And EVERYONE should claim, even if it's just repeating their claim - we've had too much fake claiming already.

Vote to claim first: Peregrine

Popcorn Claiming on the wiki, for those who don't know.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't think that can be better than popcorn.

With popcorn, suppose for a moment that you were scum, and I was your partner. You were toldto claim first, and you did so. You then have to decide who claims next. Now, you know most people think I'm scum, so you face a dilemma; do you make the pro-town move and make me claim, or do you leave me in the hope that I will be able to fakeclaim more effectively, and risk making yourself ObvScum?

When we fin one scum after a popcorn train, we can use interactions to find the others.

[izakthegoomba]

I understand that, but so long as everyone who doesn't understand popcorn claiming reads that wiki link, there's no excuse.

[izakthegoomba]

I've only seen a game get right up close to a deadline once, I think, if that. It was really dragging out. Actually, the matter came up in my first game, too. Early on, I was berated because I wanted to get things going faster. I'm still not sure what the problem was.

Today might go on longer than previous Days if we massclaim, but I'll be surprised if we need the whole time.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah...

Just wait for the rest to check in I guess.

[izakthegoomba]

In favour of Massclaiming (6): Meransiel, David Xanatos, izakthegoomba, Banshee, TheJakalope, Nero Cain

That's a majority. The rest will agree if they've got amy sense.

Unofficial vote-to-claim-first count:

PeregrineV (2): David Xanatos, izakthegoomba

[izakthegoomba]

Unofficial vote-to-claim-first count:

PeregrineV (3): David Xanatos, izakthegoomba, Banshee

@Banshee that certainly is interesting... I'm not quite sure what to make of it. From shotty's play, I would think he was just incredibly inept at playing his role, but I suppose it is possible that he was actually trying to achieve something behind it all.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah I think I mentioned that a while ago, minus the NK-on-ZeL1ink part.

Does that make me the next to go, then?

[izakthegoomba]

But actually, MoI and ZeL1nk were both ObvTown IMO, so it

could

just be a coincidence, or scum trying to mislead us.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah but who do you want to go first?

[izakthegoomba]

Loons like this is going one way...

Banshee, Nero, Jakalope. You ok with Peregrine claiming first?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, then.

We are one away from a majority for who should claim first. P-1, if you like.

[izakthegoomba]

ALL ABOARD THE POPCORN TRAIN!

[izakthegoomba]

Jimmy McNulty, Vanilla Townie

Next up is TheJakalope.

I'll keep a record of the claims so far.

Roleclaims

PeregrineV - Vanilla Townie
Meransiel - Vanilla Townie
silverbullet999 - Vanilla Townie
izakthegoomba - Vanilla Townie

Next to claim: TheJakalope

[izakthegoomba]

Roleclaims

PeregrineV - Vanilla Townie
Meransiel - Vanilla Townie
silverbullet999 - Vanilla Townie
izakthegoomba - Vanilla Townie
TheJakalope - Vanilla Townie
David Xanatos - Vanilla Townie

Next to claim: Mysterio

Also, guys, I believe it's normal practise to not discuss anything during a massclaim.

[izakthegoomba]

Vezok, you really shouldn't claim out of turn. A big point of popcorn claiming is that we can use interactions that occur during it to find scum.

Roleclaims

PeregrineV - Vanilla Townie
Meransiel - Vanilla Townie
silverbullet999 - Vanilla Townie
izakthegoomba - Vanilla Townie
TheJakalope - Vanilla Townie
David Xanatos - Vanilla Townie

Vezokpiraka - Vanilla Townie (claimed out of turn)

Next to claim: Mysterio

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM UNLESS CALLED UPON BY A POPCORN CLAIMER.

[izakthegoomba]

And Nero Cain.

And STOP ASKING ME STUFF, it's a popcorn train FFS!

[izakthegoomba]

Helllooooooooo?

Anyone there?

I'm getting lonely here, guys!

[izakthegoomba]

1) We haven't all claimed yet. The popcorn train is waiting on Mysterio.

2) What is an "RLynch"? Was it just a typo?

3) Why me? The presence of more scum PRs is becoming increasingly unlikely, and I am confirmed non-goon.

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee the fact that so far, no-one has claimed a PR. There is a good chance that a scum PR would claim, to gain town cred. Obviously I'm not ruling out ScuMysterio, but it seems unlikely.

[izakthegoomba]

But if I was playing as, for example, Mafia Doc (and I wasn't ConfNonGoon), I would probably claim doc because people would be reluctant to lynch a claimed PR. Hopefully.

[izakthegoomba]

Quite possibly an SK, though.

[izakthegoomba]

Aaaaarrrgh, why must people SiteFlake with letting anyone know?!?

@Mod replace him?

[izakthegoomba]

Let's carry on the popcorn. Only two left anyway, aside from Mysterio.

Nero and Banshee, if I remember rightly.

[izakthegoomba]

I would say Nero first - I have a null read on him, whereas I have a town read on you. But I guess it's not my choice.

@silver well, it won't be me asking mith to turn off post review just for this game!

[izakthegoomba]

BUT TEH SCUMZ KNO NOO HONOR STOOPID SILVER!

PEdit: good, carry on.

[izakthegoomba]

Roleclaims

PeregrineV - Vanilla Townie
Meransiel - Vanilla Townie
silverbullet999 - Vanilla Townie
izakthegoomba - Vanilla Townie
TheJakalope - Vanilla Townie
David Xanatos - Vanilla Townie

Vezokpiraka - Vanilla Townie (claimed out of turn)

Nero Cain - Vanilla Townie (claimed out of turn, after Mysterio flaked)

Next to claim: Banshee

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, there's only one left, we can forget the popcorn.

So, any suggestions for lynching?

[izakthegoomba]

I can go for a silver lynch.

[izakthegoomba]

VOTE: silverbullet999

I guess we wait for Pere's VCA?

[izakthegoomba]

No, I don't believe you to be an excellent player.

I think the most likely answer is Mafia Goon, for the balance of the game, based on what we know at this point.

BTW, I would go for a Pere lynch as an alternative to silver.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, I'll go either way. Can everyone please strt voting now? We're out of popcorn, there's no reason not to play as usual.

[izakthegoomba]

Well, going by the votes it doesn't look like Pere's getting lynched today. Could be wrong, but probability says so.

If Pere gets his VCA done Today, great. If not, he can work through the Night - I doubt scum will kill him.

[izakthegoomba]

Well you're looking at 2 votes more minimum to get a Silver lynch. Assuming Mera votes for Silver next time he checks in. I wouldn't mind a Silver lynch, but while there's a chance of a Pere lynch, I'm keeping my vote steady.

Yeah, I'm just saying silver seems more likely to get lynched.

I don't like his "What Scum role am I?" question. Comes off as trying to deflect by causing someone to make a specific allegation so he can attack it as a strawman.

QFT

[izakthegoomba]

That reeks of scum. That massive AtE.

The whole "I'm just a Townie and u guys gonna kill me and just kill me and get it over with and u guys are all scum nou and ur doomed and wait for VCA stupid town" thing

[izakthegoomba]

PROPOSITION: We give Peregrine 24 hours to deliver this VCA. As it's apparently almost done, this should be plenty. I don't see how this will help, but it certainly can't hurt.

After that, unless the VCA causes us all to become suddenly enlightened to something which has so far eluded us, we go ahead and lynch silver.

If we don't have it 24 hours from this post, we lynch silver anyway, and see the VCA Tomorrow.

[izakthegoomba]

@silver what do you think about Pere? A viable D9 lynch or not?

[izakthegoomba]

Peregrine, just post your bloody VCA. No-one gives a flying monkey fuck any more. There's no way of knowing how many scum there are, and it isn't relevant to your VCA, since it's already done. You are either trying to stall us for as long as possible, or hoping to adapt your VCA after you get opinions on the remaining scum. Possibly both. Whatever it is, it's VERY scummy.

SO JUST POST IT.

[izakthegoomba]

But if I was scum and in silvers position I would lie about my alignment... Am I being really thick here or something? Is there some massive truth I have yet to fully grasp?

PEdit: L-1? Go ahead, Meran.

[izakthegoomba]

super you're getting worse with every post...

MERANSIEL, HAMMER THAT SCUM!

[izakthegoomba]

EBWOP: silver, you're getting...

(misspelt and iOS fucked it up)

[izakthegoomba]

^ this

Also, didn't you say you WANTED to hammer him?

[izakthegoomba]

<3

[izakthegoomba]

Hmm... why would scum kill Mysterio? Perhaps it was some kind of policy-NK...

Anyway, PeregrineV and Meransiel are my choices today.

[izakthegoomba]

Peregrine, David Xanatos is town. If he's not, I will bow down at his feet, chanting

"we are not worthy... we are not worthy..."

.

[izakthegoomba]

...how can I prove that someone is town? I read him very strongly as town. That is all there is to say.

Why don't you lead by example, Peregrine? Who do

you

think should be lynched, and why?

[izakthegoomba]

Banshee, I think you might have got it. A scum-aligned X-shot vig would make perfect sense. And I wouldn't worry about anyone seeing it before - who'd heard of a Goon Cop?

But I am concerned by something in your last post, Banshee. If you think there's thre scum left, you think we're at MyLo. So why aren't you advocating a No Lynch?

Anyway here's my lynch preference list. The top is the scummiest.

PeregrineV
Meransiel
TheJakalope
Nero Cain
vezokpiraka
David Xanatos
Banshee
izakthegoomba

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee since we don't know if we're at MyLo or not, we could risk a lynch anyway. Plus, if you're right with that X-shot SK thing, we could force the scum into a dilemma. But if an SK is X-shot, they would need some really special extra powers to balance them...

I think if we are going to lynch, we should lynch Peregrine. He's very likely to be a Mafia Vig, or an SK with weird mechanics.

[izakthegoomba]

Also I'm not liking Meran and Vezok over this.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, if Meran is scum, Vezok could easily be his partner.

I think we should risk a lynch Today. If we don't and we get another night with two kills, we could lose on the spot. We need to catch a scum today.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, reads.

• Banshee is town. We are not lynching her today.
• David Xanatos is probably town. We are not lynching him today.
• Nero Cain is slightly town. We should not lynch him today.
• TheJakalope is null. We are not lynching him today... But he does need get an opinion of his own instead of sheeping the majority.
• Vezokpiraka is slightly scummy, but we are not lynching him unless Meran flips scum first.
• Meransiel is fairly scummy, and a possible lynch for today. His flip will help improve my read on Vezokpiraka.
• PeregrineV is very scummy. HE IS OUR LYNCH TODAY!

VOTE: PeregrineV

[izakthegoomba]

Also,

@Mod the thread title still says Night 9. It's very disconcerting.

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee I was just saying that perhaps the scum killed him to improve the in general, rather than because the thought he was a threat to them. But I know this is a bit far-fetched, and he was ConfNonGoon anyway, so I was probably wrong there.

Also Peregrine posted a link to a Google Doc, but it doesnt work even if you sign in, for me at least.

[izakthegoomba]

Meran, Pere... Just because I don't make massive posts about why people are scum and barrage them with questions every five minutes, it doesn't mean I'm not participating. On multiple occasions I've been quite vocal about who is scum, I've made my reads clear, and I've participated in discussion whenever I have something worth saying. I know I'm far from perfect, but I really don't know what you think I've done wrong.

[izakthegoomba]

I've got no problem with taking our time if we're putting the time to good use. The problem comes when people (read: you) want to drag Days out with no reason.

[izakthegoomba]

I dislike temp votes, afaik they are not really any different to FoSes.

Using FoSes more, on the other hand, is a great idea.

[izakthegoomba]

@Meransiel if you had to choose someone to get lynched RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

[izakthegoomba]

Today is making me think more and more that Meransiel is scum. The whole challenging-Banshee's-townread thing looks like an attempt to get two townies to distrust each other.

[izakthegoomba]

@Meran I'm not sure I understand the question

And I'd say we have an SK out their, as well as a couple of Mafiosi. We could be headed towards a dilemma if we don't catch the SK. Which is why we should lynch Peregrine.

[izakthegoomba]

When I'm playing as scum (at least, in the short period before the townies break the game - which happened both times) I just try to scumhunt as usual, attacking my partners whenever I would attack them if I was town. Just an FYI.

[izakthegoomba]

@Meran I think DX is town. I was just letting you know about that, because I'm sure I'm not a minority with my (lack of) scum tactics.

Peregrine has made a clear stance, and although I disagree with him, it's still a good thing. Banshee has given plenty of contribution, and I read her as town anyway. I read Meransiel as scum, but he has been participating very actively, especially more recently. Xanatos has been active and useful right through this game. I have my thoughts on Vezok, but none of it's really relevant until a Day or two down the line, so I'm not concerned there, either.

But regarding Nero and Jakalope... I'm far less sure. They've been very quiet Today. So, some questions.

@Nero Cain:

• If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be, and why?
• Do you think PeregrineV is a Serial Killer? If not, what do you read him as?
• If Meransiel was lynched today and flipped Mafia, would your opinion of Vezokpiraka change at all?

@TheJakalope:

• If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be, and why?
• Do you think PeregrineV is a Serial Killer? If not, what do you read him as?
• You've been very neutral throughout this game, which I find quite troubling. Can you provide a list of your reads on all players?

[izakthegoomba]

Meran, I wasn't asking you... Giving the answers away kind of defeats the point of asking questions in the first place, no?

Also, what if Banshee was right and he's some sort of X-shot SK? He could be some hellish JOAT/SK combo for all we know. Why are you so certain he's not dangerous?

[izakthegoomba]

I'm trying to get opinions, and get those two to participate. Because quite frankly, anything's better than what they're doing right now.

[izakthegoomba]

I'm happy with the first two answers, but the third one? Really? This is the late game now. You should have reads, one way or the other, on almost all players by now, and you should be willing to give them to us. More than that, even. You should be trying to ACTUALLY LYNCH THE SCUM, instead of sitting around doing nothing while the rest of us plough on.

[izakthegoomba]

@Nero it was just a thing earlier today(?), it looked like a link between Meran and Vezok.

I think Jaka meant Peregrine was 95% confirmed scum (even though he's not, you can't assign a percentage to this).

Also, I know Xanatos' logic is rather shaky Today, but I really don't see anything he's done as scummy.

[izakthegoomba]

Slip from Mera? I can't see Town making such a direct statement with such apparent certainty.. I can see Scum all over it though.

1: Throws Town off due to trying to reignite the Cult paranoia, which in my mind is now solidly negated.
2: Is basically saying to Town "Oh don't worry you can mislynch again and be fine"...

It's this that irked me. I just don't think either of those points are valid.

First, I have no idea how Meran's post had anything to do with cults. Anyway, think about it: We've had how many nights now? 8? 9? That means, since we have obviously not lynched any cultists, that even allowing for a few recruitmets failing for some reason, the cult would still easily be a majority now. They would just be controlling the whole town and wiping out everyone else! So why would Meran even think about trying to "reignite the Cult paranoia", when it's pretty much 100% certain that we don't have a cult here?

Secondly, I fail to see how you managed to read it like that. I'm pretty certain he was just making a point...

Don't get me wrong, I still read you as town and Meran as scum, but I think you are tunnelling WAY too hard on Meran right now. Take a look around, Xanatos.

[izakthegoomba]

Well, I think Meran was just talking about the presence of an SK. So whatever. Here's a thought though: what about a mafia vig?

Scum would never back off a hammer after they decided to hammer. Especially since the victim is not believed by anybody.

WIFOM

I mean, think about it for a second. If David flips town, I'm like almost confirmed scum.

What are you suggesting? You and Xanatos go 1v1? I'll go for it if we can lynch you first.

[izakthegoomba]

Well then Xanatos, do you believe Peregrine is a Mafia Vig and shotty was trying to gain town cred (if he outlived Pere), or elsemade Pere look better (if he didn't)? If you do, then surely you should be pushing a Peregrine lynch?

[izakthegoomba]

Oh come on, L-2 is nothing to worry about.

We're not going to get anywhere without another flip. So let's lynch Peregrine right now. I doubt anyone can reasonably protest that he's not the most likely to be scum (of one sort or another) that we have here. Then we can use his flip to help determine who else is scum.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

[izakthegoomba]

Lol so do I... but yeah I'd want Meran dead anyway unless something BIG happens tonight.

[izakthegoomba]

But those options are given from TownMeran's PoV. FMPoV, it's quite possible that you are scum.

And besides, suppose we lynch Pere today, and tomorrow is MyLo. We No Lynch, of course, to raise our lynching accuracy. So your death doesn't have to come tomorrow, so we can make a much more informed decision of whether to lynch you or not.

PEdit: yeah, what Xanatos said, too. Peregrine is probably MafVig anyway, nullifying your argument.

[izakthegoomba]

But Meran, if you are town, then surely an SK/scum lynch is better than lynching you...

Surely you can't think Peregrine is town?

PEdit:

That's where you're wrong, Meran. On D10, we No Lynch, so we have the maximum possible information.

Then we're at a three-man endgame. The remaining players work out who is scum. Seriously, nobody is going to jump straight in and lynch you at LyLo.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh come on Meran, do you think anyone here will be fool enough to quicklynch someone at LyLo? That's the kind of thing you see in newbie games.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok... It's time for me to re-read as well. I did one a few game-days ago, but it was quick and dirty at best.

So if my activity drops over the next few days, I'm not lurking, I'm reading.

[izakthegoomba]

Well I want more content from TheJakalope. We can't play an endgame with one of the players lurking through it.

@TheJakalope this had better be the last time I have to ask: give us a full list of reads. It is absolutely essential at this stage.

In fact, it would be really good at this stage for EVERYONE to give a full list of reads.

[izakthegoomba]

@Peregrine I think the most likely answer is either 2 scum, or 2 scum 1 SK.

Two scum PRs against a bunch of town ones in 22:5 or 21:5:1 makes enough sense. 21:6? Not likely.

[izakthegoomba]

21:3:3 would be so unfair. There is no way we have two scumteams.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok. I can't really comment on the dead ones, except to note that most of the living players were ones I had down as null, or only as slight reads. That's of no real use to this game, but is interesting to me nonetheless.

As for Meran... When did I say I thought he had got townier?

Anyway, Peregrine has gotten scummier since shotty claimed that result. Banshee and Xanatos have got townier - it's just a feeling I get from their posts. TheJakalope is playing more scummily today - the ways he's evading my repeated requests for him to take a firm stance here, and a general over-neutrality.

I'll give you a full read list. I CBA to do the colors and stuff, but I guess it was a dumb idea anyway.

PeregrineV - 8/10
Meransiel - 7/10
TheJakalope - 6/10
vezokpiraka - 6/10
Nero Cain - 5/10
David Xanatos - 3/10
Banshee - 2/10

Also, Xanatos, check your PMs. (stuff about a mish mash game)

[izakthegoomba]

Jakalope, make your fucking mind up. Your play has gone from "meh" to "horse dung", and is still heading south. Can you not participate in this game without contradicting yourself, fence-sitting, or sheeping? Seriously, if you dont start contributing, my vote is gonna be so far up your ass you won't be able to sit down for a week.

[izakthegoomba]

Not buying that.

[izakthegoomba]

FUCK

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK

My reads were so awful... Scum was leading this since the Castle Bravo lynch.

But congrats to Xanatos and Banshee in particular, I never would have lynched either of you if we'd got to LyLo

And in hindsight, shotty's play was actually really good. When he realised henwas getting lynched and started flailing around like that, town lost the game.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh and Jason, do you have a real gender? Or does it just randomly change every so often?

I'm sure you were male in that newbie game we played, then female here, and now you're male again...

Huh?

[izakthegoomba]

You guys have totally screwed up my mind...

[izakthegoomba]

Because of the WIFOM, duh.

Also, I was just starting a re-read to try and get better reads when Banshee quickhammered.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, andrew could have really screwed it up for you.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh, all right then...

*Falls to the ground at Xanatos' feet, chanting "we are not worthy"*

[izakthegoomba]

VOTE: Rodion

[izakthegoomba]

Oh right.

[izakthegoomba]

Can't find a signup thread, so I'm guessing the UPick is for pre-ins?

If so:

/pre-in for TV UPick

[izakthegoomba]

So we can choose our UPicks now?

*sends PM

[izakthegoomba]

I thought it was some kind of policy kill.

[izakthegoomba]

Also, me and izak never listen to each other - Rule. We just pretend from time to time.

@Banshee I just meant like a policy lynch... but with an NK instead. Which it kind of was.

And thanks to Jason for a great game, this was a really good setup now I look back at it.

[izakthegoomba]

'COS U MAD!

[izakthegoomba]

LIKE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[izakthegoomba]

It's not scum... just Meran...

...me and izak never listen to each other - Rule. We just pretend from time to time.

[izakthegoomba]

Shit, wrong thread. Ignore the above.

[izakthegoomba]

Daykill: silverbullet999