TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Meransiel]

Obv, neither SK nor Survivor would act like him.

[Zinger2099]

@Zinger- Than the more important question is "Do you win with town?". Otherwise, you know that it won't end well for you.

My win-con is such that I can win and exit the game prior to it even ending for the rest of you, if I achieve a certain goal. I don't kill anybody, so I can actually win without having any real effect on the rest of the game.

I'm not a threat to town or mafia. You guys play your game and I will play mine and everybody is happy (except the team among you that loses, sucks to be them).

This is also why I haven't been overly helpful (but wasn't exactly trying to get on everyone's bad side either). I don't want to be lynched, and I don't want mafia to think I am a threat. Just leave me alone and I'll

hopefully

be out of your hair before you know it (if I get lucky in who I target).

[chkballin]

Reconcile plz.

....okay? It had no effect on my read, it was just a comment I maee. You are null/leaning scum for other reasons, adding harping to a null/leaning read as one of them...

You expect me to believe that in a list of reads, the comment immediately preceeding the read

is of

no relevance

whatsoever to the read

?

It is one of the more notable aspects of your play IMO at that time, I referenced it. However, I don't EXPECT you to believe anything- they are my reads, yours is null/leaning and this isn't up for debate. It really shouldn't bother you this much...

~

BALLIN

[Oversoul]

1) Meransiel - nothing from him for quite a while. Null. Prod dodges. Gives no reason for inactivity. Yay... Doesn't seem to actually want to participate in this game and instead says, tell me when I am tunnelled so I am forced to defend myself. Mersan seems lazy and the conversation between him and Junpei looks like TvT
2) vezokpiraka - suggested a nameclaim, people joked RVSed him and then he states that Jilynne is not scum and that 3isFrench is townie. I don't really have much of an opinion on him, but I think he is town. 262 he gives crap reason to suspect Zinger. Trying to cast suspicion on Zinger for meta reasons. Why is everyone obsessed with meta... Yes, it is helpful sometimes, but those helpful bits are far and few between. I'm getting tired of seeing meta thrown around all the time.
3) MagnaofIllusion - 104 is good defense. I see MoI vs Rodion and Pappums as TvTvT. 144 seems really town. I like MoI's playstyle. Most town in my book.
4) PeregrineV - His vote on Zinger seems like a joke, but I still don't understand it. Null for now.
5) Pappums Leather Jacket - I like 98. It seems like good posting, but imo he is stretching things like implying MoI wanted a speed lynch on Vezok when it was a joke.
6) Zinger2099 - claims Earl Hickey? I don't like him claiming that early especially when he was unprovoked. Someone else apparently claimed earlier than him, but I thought that was joke. With his 116 he seems to be going into character for no reason. Idk, null at this stage in the game. After being called out, he comes in an serial posts for no reason. Maybe an effort to look town with a larger activity? Still not getting any reads from him.
7) chkballin - promises a wall on David, but I haven't seen it yet. 283 is the promise I think? Kinda ironic it comes after Pere says he voted him because of the fake promising. I like his case on David and he does bring up a good point about the fact that he has barely given any content. His other head brings up a point about 3isFrench, but I'm not really following it. Could you explain that a little bit more. I'm sorry. It is late and I am tired. Realize that this is Chkflip and Glowball alt. AWESOME. One head got really defensive and really angry, but this seems like Glowball.
8) marco1610 - Seems genuine from his back and forth with Vifam. I don't feel like Marco is scum at this point in the game and I seriously doubt a Marco/Vifam scum team judging from their posts.
9) Pvt Slate * - 121 RVS votes at what I think is a transition from RVS to actual scumhunting... not sure why he did that. :\ Comes in and says that everyone on the Vifam wagon is wrong because he has town vibes from Vifam and that Vifam is a noob. Are you from Rodion's other forum? Possible attempt to get heat off a scum partner.
10) Nero Cain - Vote on Vifam is okay I guess, but he did sheep him. He hasn't been really active.
11) David Xanatos - weak buddying with Vifam on post 53, still wanting a name claim after a few people have already stated that it won't directly help town.
12) easjo682 - hasn't really contributed. I say this for people I think are null because well... I can't analyze posts that aren't there. Yay he posted something on 269. I like his reaction to Killerjester. They don't seem like a group. His reference about Jily is... META. no. Kinda hypocritical that he uses meta on Jily and then says that using meta is dangerous.
13) vollkan - Jilynne has been scummy and then calls me dumb for believing a vig claim. Avoiding the posts about her fencesitting. Vollkan comes in with weird as shit scumhunting. I don't understand it but I am going to assume he suspects Vezok and Vifam from that post? I like his comment about Leonshade, though. I don't really find Leonshade scummy, but from Vollkan's point of view I can see it.
14) Pinky and the Brain - 114 calls out Jilynne. I didn't really pay attention to Jily, but the post does have a point. The post gives me a townie vibe. Jily's after Pinky's post does not. Points out that not claiming heads is as scummy as it gets, which is false imo. 235 is good. He has actively participating and scumhunting. I wish I had the charisma of that account. I'm bogged down by too many games. *sigh*
15) ZeL1nK - the cryptic hyrad. 122 comes in an claims he is going to vig Zinger. WHY WHY WHY would a vig do that... scummy. I like his vote on Vifam. He brings up good points, personally I don't care if he doesn't claim his heads as I usually don't follow meta for scumhunting.
16) andrew94 - incorrectly calls me a girl, carries on with his usual meta habits of inactivity followed by lame activity. :\ Typical Andrew at 265ish. I know I am going to sound like a hypocrite, but Andrew is acting like this in all of my games with him and I am pretty sure he is town in all of them.
17) izakthegoomba - null for most of the Vifam/Vezok wagon due to V/La comes back and states that Jily is suspicious because of meta reasons he cannot say. How convenient. he then goes on to vote the popular Vifam wagon. Looks like opportunistic scum.
18) Pine - my RVS vote posts saying they are returning from V/La. yay. I actually forgot I had my vote on them.
19) Chevre * - 120 Unvotes after no activity. Null because nothing to go off.
20) ThAdmiral - his reaction to Rodion in post 118 seems genuine and I can see the logic. He seems to have the same point of view as me on Rodion.
21) Junpei - Vifam jumps on Rodion wagon after MoI brings up an iffy point in 81. Rodion is a newby that I have played with before and his logic doesn't always make sense. In 87 and 88 Vifam is strange and seems to be going back to discussion that is already over trying to look down. Attached to MoI again. 99 he jumps off the Rodion wagon once Pappums points out that Rodion is very new to MS. He has retracted from every path he has taken so far.. I don't like his posting. 115.. wagon hopping again. I am getting serious scum vibes from Vifam at this point. Gives a list with a lot of null reads. I don't like Vifam's play at all. 159 imo killed him. As others have pointed out he is trying to put another person up for lynch by saying the other person did more sheeping than I did. Looks like AtE. He replaces out as he tries to breathe life into another game. Ya.. as MoI pointed out, he promised a defense, and then gives us no reason why he is leaving this game. I like Junpei's posting, but the only read I sort of agree on is Leonshade.
22) Rodion - Seems like newby towny from his post about a full name claim from Vezok fearing his lynch. I don't think he realized it was a joke wagon. 191 seems really town imo. He gets really active in the game at this point, but he copies what other people are saying somewhat. I still think he is newbtown. Post 325 is :goodposting:
23) Leonshade - seems town from his posting, but he hasn't posted much.
24) ThreeIsFrench - null hasn't contributed much. Points out the weak assumption on Jilynne by Nero when she gives a reason as to why she is leaving and replacing out of all of her games. Seems like an attempt to put suspicion back on Jilynne and her wagon. I don't like that post by Nero.
25) killerjester - His vote on Jilynne seems genuine, but the Rodion pressure was also legitimate. I am not sure why he thinks otherwise. Null-leaning town. Vote on Zinger seems forced. I assume it is a pressure vote given that there is no reason from the post as to why he voted him. I like 254 he is trying to actively contribute and reminds everyone about Pvt's promise.
26) Oversoul * - I have a prod. lol.
27) silverdrummer - Null-scummy. His posts are forgettable and I don't think his other head has posted yet. O_O Comes into the thread to vote Vifam. Then tries to cast suspicion on Zelink. He has been anti-town, but I don't find all anti-town players to be scummy. He forgot about the other person's random name claim like on the first page. At this point though he is bringing up an old case to further his argument on Zelink which seems opportunistic. Jumps onto a Pine wagon where my RVS vote is. I don't like that at all.


I am posting my reads from up to Page 16.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Silverdrummer His actions seem opportunistic and I get scummy vibes from his posts.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Today has not been fun.

Catch-up posting tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Junpei]

Zlinger claims third party. Town would never claim third party. So either he is third party hoping that we will go with him and allow him to win, or he is scum trying to go under the radar and not get lynched.

The former means that we let someone who has been as shitty as Zlinger win. That is not something I want to happen.

The latter means that he thinks that since he is the easy lynch we won't go after him (like Meran). It also means that he thinks that people will get away from him, saying that scum wouldn't do that or something stupid like that. He has just claimed non-town, I will not not lynch him today, we need to get rid of all the non-town variables ASAP. I don't care if you won't interfere with town, I know you are either bad or null for town, so I want you dead.

lynch Zlinger

Oversoul: What part of my reads don't you agree with?

Silverdrummer: I asked you if you had read the walls of text that were posted earlier in the day, you never responded. Please respond.

[jasonT1981]

EasJo will be Prodded ASAP... Junpei, are you meaning that to be a vote?

[Oversoul]

Killerjester has been generally pro town with his active scumhunting. However, Rodion did make a good point about Killer's response to Vollkan when he switched in. Although, I still feel Killer is town. I don't understand why you see 3isFrench as mafia, you didn't really clarify on that.

Those were the reads I was talking about.

[Zinger2099]

@Junpei, I am not bad for the town. In fact, you wasting time on me and not hunting mafia is bad for the town. According to my claim, I have the ability to win before the game is over, so it is safe to say that if we reach LyLo (or even LyLo -1) and I haven't yet won, that I no longer have the ability to do so. Why not wait and see if my claim pans out and if not then lynch me then?

Unless you are mafia and jumping for joy at the fact that you now have a legitimate non-town to go after other than your fellow mafia buddies. This to me seems more likely than your failed logic as to why you want me lynched.

unvote, vote: Junpei

.

Technically speaking, I am not bad for either alignment. There is one player who probably doesn't want me around because if I win it will neutralize that person's role, but I have no idea if that person is town or mafia or another self. That's the only person who should have just cause to want me out of the game. Perhaps that is you?

[Oversoul]

@Junpei, I am not bad for the town. In fact, you wasting time on me and not hunting mafia is bad for the town. According to my claim, I have the ability to win before the game is over, so it is safe to say that if we reach LyLo (or even LyLo -1) and I haven't yet won, that I no longer have the ability to do so. Why not wait and see if my claim pans out and if not then lynch me then?

Unless you are mafia and jumping for joy at the fact that you now have a legitimate non-town to go after other than your fellow mafia buddies. This to me seems more likely than your failed logic as to why you want me lynched.

unvote, vote: Junpei

.

Technically speaking, I am not bad for either alignment. There is one player who probably doesn't want me around because if I win it will neutralize that person's role, but I have no idea if that person is town or mafia or another self. That's the only person who should have just cause to want me out of the game. Perhaps that is you?

What the hell is your role...

Sounds like a lyncher/lynchee thing.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

[David Xanatos]

I'll actually respond to this point by point. Please note that at this time, this is the main part I've caught up to, yes, I am lagging behind, but I felt this should be addressed as soon as possible.

- He jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes... and FINALLY gets his serious face on when town starts to turn their eyes in his general direction. Are jokes scummy? Not in and of themselves, no, but when you're not scum hunting? It's fluff at best. An attempt to say "Hey guys, I'm here. Like me!" without giving anything credible or worthwhile information to the game as a whole.

Frankly, at that point, there was nothing I found particularly scummy about Vifam at that point. Not everyone instantly jumps into the game, and frankly I've always been one to take a slightly laid back role until I get a feel for the other players, you can check up my last game on that if you like. (Yes, I did claim too early then, but it worked out in the end.)

- Never in my days have I seen an RVS vote hop onto ANOTHER RVS vote. Something just doesn't feel right with me here. I don't see any town motivation for it.

There was a difference of

FOUR

minutes. That was simply me taking an RVS prod at Chev, seeing ThreeisFrench and thinking "Aha, the French!". Hardly "RVS vote hop onto ANOTHER RVS vote" given the timescale.

- Interacts with Magna semi-defensively. We all understand that questions end in question marks; what's the point in saying that? Obviously the point Magna made was worth responding to, otherwise MoI wouldn't have wanted David to respond. All that just to say that he holds his ground with the mass name claiming debacle? It just feels like he's making an excuse for not responding to Magna by way of continuing the nonsense joking with 3isFrench.

For a moment there you had me thinking I'd made a mistake, and the posts were by two seperate people.. can you please be consistent in the way you refer to a player? When I read that the first time I honestly thought I'd addressed MoI about a point someone else had made.

Regardless, to respond, at that point I was under the impression he was joking. It seemed to me at that point like a pure RVS wagon, and I didn't feel the need to move my vote to a wagon that I had no true basis in joining. ThreeisFrench had only me on him at that point, with what I felt was an obvious joke vote, whereas the Vezok wagon could catch wind without any real response from Vezok, and I'd rather not lynch without at least a cursory defense.

- this post has already been addressed for how scummy it is. "I mean, I want to give my scum partner some time to post an accurate defense. Y'know, so it's not

completely obvious

that I'm bussing you." That's exactly how that posts reads to me. Scum not wanting to look like obvscum, afraid his vote on Vifam won't be taken as genuine. "Waiting for a defense" is his exact wording... then why does he contradict himself here by saying that Vifam's defense is shotty? He tries to justify himself and I find it to be completely full of garbage. Tries it again before going V/LA. Why is he so concerned with this? Why not just say "I've answered this" and be done with it? Doesn't read as town motivated to me.

I've answered this. Happy? Because I have actually.

Vifam refused to give any defense beyond "I agreed with the reads", while accusing others of sheeping, and trying everything to make people "look over there", so to speak. Frankly, I didn't believe that he was using that as a defense, so I opted to give him/her time to post an actual defense. I believe 15 hours is more than sufficient time for someone who isn't V/LA or under an RL pressure to respond, so by that point I decided to put my vote down and assess the situation based on any defense forthcoming, as the current one just didn't hold water.

The third link you claim I'm trying to "justify" myself is after Admiral said essentially that I should have voted for Vifam. That was my simply pointing out I already had done. He then pointed out he follows a particular philosophy of always having your vote on somebody, which is where he and I apparently differ. I prefer being more conservative with my vote when I can be, due to having mostly played smaller games where a single vote can be the "foot in the door" for Scum to bandwagon someone.

And the fourth link you provided there, what's more town friendly? Three words, or giving the explanation in a nutshell before I went out the door?

If I'd simply said "I've answered this", I rather suspect you'd have used that as an excuse to claim I'm "lurking Scum" or similar.

You know, I can show you the photos from my weekend break if you like, before you claim the V/LA was a "Scum Gambit" or something. :3

- WAY TOO DEFENSIVE about a single vote. What's he worried about?

That was me being sarcastic about the fact you claimed to be "working on a wall" to "expect soon". You'll note I didn't mention your vote at all, not quite sure how that qualifies as "defensive".

- asks for something that's basically already been given. This tells me that he's not paying attention to the thread as much as he should. He CERTAINLY watches out for his own name, but head-claiming? That seems less important until he feels the need to fluff his ISO with something he may think is pro-town.

There's a Hydra that's completely unclaimed. I'm new to the "Hydra" concept, but as I stated to the mod, it seems to go against some of the game theory of "tells" et cetera. It also suggests to me that at least one of the two has something rather negative to hide, which arouses my interest to a degree.

Now.. with that post addressed, I plod onwards. I apologise that I am a little behind, but as I said, working onwards as I can.

[Junpei]

I'm sorry, I mean vote whenever I say lynch. I'll be more aware. And he softclaimed lyncher then why did he say that he has a night target?

And I will continue to scumhunt, however I don't see myself shifting away from a confirmed non-town. The last thing we need is lyncher(if he is that) jointing with mafia on lylo. Getting him out of the way early saves us some trouble.

[jasonT1981]

OK, I can not accept anything other than Vote: (Person) anything else is not valid

[killerjester]

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

Did you just ask for a roleclaim? I don't see the point in giving the mafia a bigger informational advantage than they already have.

My, my, I am pretty confident in my vote that's already on you. Speaking of, don't you have anything to say to the accusations on you? Anything at all?

[Pinky and the Brain]

Unvote, Vote: Zinger

He has claimed to be NOT TOWN. I don't see one good reason to not lynch him.

-diddin

[Junpei]

vote Zinger

Once again, I apologize Jason.

[Meransiel]

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

Did you just ask for a roleclaim? I don't see the point in giving the mafia a bigger informational advantage than they already have.

My, my, I am pretty confident in my vote that's already on you. Speaking of, don't you have anything to say to the accusations on you? Anything at all?

Actually, that is just goomba being goomba.

[ThreeIsFrench]

VOTE: zing

[Junpei]

1) Meran to the meta rescue. Goomba being Goomba is asking for role claims? lolwat?

2) ThreeIsFrench you neither tagged your post nor gave reasoning for that vote.

[izakthegoomba]

*sigh*

I do tend to pick up a certain... reputation.

But yes, I did ask for a roleclaim. I expect he's a Lyncher or similar, but if he wants us to let him play alongside us, I want his full co-operation.

And I have very little to say about the accusations against me.

[chkballin]

I have the ability to win before the game is over

Are you guys unfamiliar with third party roles that aren't a Serial Killer? He's claiming that he's not a threat to town... why does that warrant him to be lynched?

Everyone on the Zinger just got scum points for going for the "easy mislynch" when it's obvious he has a win condition completely seperate to the rest of the town.

See also: get over yourselves. Would scum claim like that? Seriously?

~

CHK

[Junpei]

I have the ability to win before the game is over

Are you guys unfamiliar with third party roles that aren't a Serial Killer? He's claiming that he's not a threat to town... why does that warrant him to be lynched?

Everyone on the Zinger just got scum points for going for the "easy mislynch" when it's obvious he has a win condition completely seperate to the rest of the town.

See also: get over yourselves. Would scum claim like that? Seriously?

~

CHK

1) Not familiar with all but most

2) The easy lynch isn't always the wrong one. And I find it odd that you say mislynch. How are you so sure that it is a mislynch? You do realize that scum lie right?

3) Yes, it's a wifom tactic. Rather smart as it keeps possible SKs off of you and the town off of you. This creates a case where you are immune to night and day kills and no one gets suspicious. Also note how he doesn't specify a time when he'll win. He says that he could win soon or it could take a longer time, he even offers the possibility that he'll live to LYLO. Does that not seem odd to you?

[Meransiel]

No.

[Rodion]

I'm going to comment more tonight, just wanted to adress 2 quick points that jumped to my eyes.

Point I

13) vollkan - Jilynne has been scummy and then calls me dumb for believing a vig claim.

I get the feeling that this was a big misunderstanding caused by poor grammar/punctuation. Check this.

I am going to vig Zinger tonight. Anyone have a problem with this?

I think a nameclaim is a bad idea; even if factions are randomized, it may be the case that their TV Roles have a factor in any PRs that may exist.

If it's like the last jasont game, roles are randomised, not just alignments.

The reason it's a bad idea is because it's a waste of time and achieves nothing.

Why would you claim when a real life day hasn't even pass?

If there is a doctor, please protect him ZeL1nk.

Is there some game mechanic that I am missing? I thought everyone was in agreement to not claim D1?

Did you want Zelink (claimed vig) to protect the doctor? I hardly think that's what you meant (as I already said, you probably wanted the doctor to either (a) protect Zelink, the vig or (b) protect Zinger, the vig target), but the way you phrased it makes it weird.

OverSoul, you obviously believe the vig claim. Tonight, I'm going to shoot you, protect Pinky and the Brain, and investigate TheAdmiral, do you believe that too?

Jil's answer seems like someone making a joke out of the ambiguous phrase.

Point 2

UNVOTE: Meransiel

Because there is other stuff bigger than Meran now.

Zinger, you just softclaimed Lyncher. I want proper info on your role.

FoS: Junpei

Zinger says it all.

Did you just ask for a roleclaim? I don't see the point in giving the mafia a bigger informational advantage than they already have.

My, my, I am pretty confident in my vote that's already on you. Speaking of, don't you have anything to say to the accusations on you? Anything at all?

Zinger claimed 3rd-party, I don't see the harm in wanting to know more about his claim: it's not like we're outing a town PR. I'm also curious about the logic behind people claiming Zinger "townslipped".