TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[David Xanatos]

How exactly is the Meran vote "unsubstantiated"?

He left a bigger skid mark than Wile E. Coyote when Silver put a spotlight on him. There's no reason for Town to react like that in the slightest.

[PeregrineV]

How exactly is the Meran vote "unsubstantiated"?

He left a bigger skid mark than Wile E. Coyote when Silver put a spotlight on him. There's no reason for Town to react like that in the slightest.

OK, why would scum do it?

[David Xanatos]

Because we've had two Vengefuls, and Silver's record for martyrdom would make me think twice about bomb possibilities. Also, at this late stage, fears of Silver being taken seriously could factor into it.

[Banshee]

I was sure Silver was scum based on the things around Shotty and his overall play, so I'm sort of stuck right now.

From the opposite perspective, here are the things I think I know:

• Izak is town. I'm almost sure of this.
  Vezok is town based on his post right after Magna got killed. I don't think that was deliberate.
  David seems really town to me too.

That's four town (including me) that I am not voting for today and that I am sure aren't scum. I think there is probably a cult-flavoured vig on the scum side, though. That would come up non-goon and would explain the extra kills. I don't understand why we haven't seen any lately though.

My main suspicions are between Peregrine as this vig (Shotty trying to be clever?) and Meransiel because I am afraid I'm suffering from confirmation bias because I was so sure Meransiel wasn't scum based on behaviour at the start of the game. More or less null reads on Nero Cain and TheJakalope, though I agreed with Nero's logic a lot around the Silver issue which makes him seem townier to me.

Meh, I want Meransiel to explain why he backed off so hard from Silver. I don't want to vote him without better reasons than I see right now.

Peregrine is my top suspicion. I haven't liked the minimal posting style, the delays on promised material and the general attitude. Town should WANT to help town win, not act like they're doing us a big favour by offering content. I don't really know how to do a VCA or I'd do one for myself.

Actually, that just pinpointed what was bothering me. Peregrine isn't doing a VCA for himself to try to figure things out, he's doing one as a big favour for us. Why? I would be doing it for myself and THEN sharing it with others to try to figure things out; Peregrine is acting as if he's not even interested in figuring them out for himself, but only in helping us. That's plain weird to me.

I'm not voting him right now, but that's where my vote would land if I were going to vote right now.

[Meransiel]

Yes, I know backing out at that point was risky exactly for those reasons. But that is how I felt I must deal with it. Scum simply don't post like that while in danger, and I had a change of perspective.

Did I also do it to protect myself? Yes, obviously, why wouldn't I? "getting killed as VT is not that big of a hassle and it's scummy to make a hassle out of it" only works when there are non-VT around, which is clearly not the case here.

The thing that made everything fail was, of course, that I didn't expect Vezokpiraka to hammer. That really obfuscated me. What DIDN'T, however, was the way DavidX just declared "I'm tunneling on you tomorrow bozo" just before the death scene.

VOTE: DavidX

And that's my stance. I don't agree with a Pere lynch, and obv not with a lynch on myself....which seem to be the other options.

[Meransiel]

Town should WANT to help town win, not act like they're doing us a big favour by offering content.

So...I didn't WANT to help town when I didn't hammer someone I didn't think was scum?

[David Xanatos]

The question is, why did you make such a skidding halt as a VT then? That action doesn't fit with having no power beyond the vote.

PEdit: And for that matter, a complete reversal in stance between wanting to hammer then declaring the person is Scum is quite dodgy in itself.

[Meransiel]

]PEdit: And for that matter, a complete reversal in stance between wanting to hammer then declaring the person is Scum is quite dodgy in itself.

Um..what? Sorry, I don't understand what you say here. Can you rephrase?

[David Xanatos]

Sorry, 6am from the wrong side sleeping on and off..

You thought Silver was Scum, you wanted to hammer, then you completely flipped your stance and started professing him to be Town, with barely a nod of explanation beyond saying "I don't think what he did would be something Scum would do.".

I could, given a short time, likely find Scum playing any way.. hell, I've seen Scum continue to profess innocence and declaring who the "real" scum are for pages past their lynch into twilight..

[David Xanatos]

And on that note, I think I should go back to bed..

[Banshee]

Town should WANT to help town win, not act like they're doing us a big favour by offering content.

So...I didn't WANT to help town when I didn't hammer someone I didn't think was scum?

You did actually read my post and note that I was talking about Peregrine and not you, yeah?

Really feeling unsure of my early town read on you at the moment. I don't regard OMGUS as a scumtell particularly but I'm surprised that you're engaging in it since I don't think it fits your general playstyle, at least in this game.

Meh, I'm not voting yet because I'm not sure enough of myself. I know there have to be at least two scum left and probably three (but not more than that or we'd all be dead already) and I'm sure one is a power role of some kind.

@Anyone

: Has anyone ever heard of a third-party X-shot vig? AKA an X-shot SK?

[izakthegoomba]

Banshee, I think you might have got it. A scum-aligned X-shot vig would make perfect sense. And I wouldn't worry about anyone seeing it before - who'd heard of a Goon Cop?

But I am concerned by something in your last post, Banshee. If you think there's thre scum left, you think we're at MyLo. So why aren't you advocating a No Lynch?

Anyway here's my lynch preference list. The top is the scummiest.

PeregrineV
Meransiel
TheJakalope
Nero Cain
vezokpiraka
David Xanatos
Banshee
izakthegoomba

[Banshee]

@Izak

: I'm willing for a no-lynch, but then we're stuck tomorrow with what is probably the same problem, so we HAVE to try to figure this out now even if we do go for a no-lynch. Once we agree to a no-lynch everyone is probably going to stop posting and arguing and then we won't learn anything else after that imo.

It's late, and I'm not sure I'm making sense here. But if we don't at least make progress in narrowing things down today then I don't think a no-lynch will help us all that much. I think it's too early to start with that right now.

[vezokpiraka]

vote david

He;s scum. probably bussing meran but I'm not sure.

[David Xanatos]

Care to justify that opinion? Or is this just you trying to sheep your buddy at MyLo?

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee since we don't know if we're at MyLo or not, we could risk a lynch anyway. Plus, if you're right with that X-shot SK thing, we could force the scum into a dilemma. But if an SK is X-shot, they would need some really special extra powers to balance them...

I think if we are going to lynch, we should lynch Peregrine. He's very likely to be a Mafia Vig, or an SK with weird mechanics.

[izakthegoomba]

Also I'm not liking Meran and Vezok over this.

[David Xanatos]

As I said, I'd be happy with Peregrine or Meransiel, but Meran would be my preference after yesterday. I want to hear Vezok's justification for the sheeping, but it set off warning bells about a Mera-Vezok partnership. Gonna have to re-read, see how they acted towards each other.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, if Meran is scum, Vezok could easily be his partner.

I think we should risk a lynch Today. If we don't and we get another night with two kills, we could lose on the spot. We need to catch a scum today.

[David Xanatos]

We then need to decide who. You're out, as is Nero in my mind. That leaves Banshee, Jaka, Vezok, Peregrine and Meran. Listed as Town-Scum as I read them..

Wouldn't mind seeing other's reads, so we can identify where we stand.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, reads.

• Banshee is town. We are not lynching her today.
• David Xanatos is probably town. We are not lynching him today.
• Nero Cain is slightly town. We should not lynch him today.
• TheJakalope is null. We are not lynching him today... But he does need get an opinion of his own instead of sheeping the majority.
• Vezokpiraka is slightly scummy, but we are not lynching him unless Meran flips scum first.
• Meransiel is fairly scummy, and a possible lynch for today. His flip will help improve my read on Vezokpiraka.
• PeregrineV is very scummy. HE IS OUR LYNCH TODAY!

VOTE: PeregrineV

[izakthegoomba]

Also,

@Mod the thread title still says Night 9. It's very disconcerting.

[Banshee]

I need answers to a few questions before I'm sure about voting.

@Meransiel:

I didn't really understand what changed your mind so radically between (forgive the bad paraphrasing, this is just how I remember it): "I'm bored and screw you guys I don't want to wait for the VCA, let's lynch and I got the hammer" to "No, Silver is obvtown! We must stop!" I didn't see whatever it was you saw in his posts; to me it just looked like the typical WIFOM things scum throw out before death to me. Was it really just the threat to you?

Also, you didn't really answer about what you thought of Peregrine (or I missed it, which is possible). Can you answer that now please?

@Peregrine:

Did you ever complete the VCA? Do you feel you learned anything useful from it, if so?

@Izak:

Why would Mysterio have been a policy lynch? Lurking?

[izakthegoomba]

@Banshee I was just saying that perhaps the scum killed him to improve the in general, rather than because the thought he was a threat to them. But I know this is a bit far-fetched, and he was ConfNonGoon anyway, so I was probably wrong there.

Also Peregrine posted a link to a Google Doc, but it doesnt work even if you sign in, for me at least.

[Banshee]

@Izak: I don't know. I was guessing that it was because he was the last potential town PR.

I looked at the GoogleDoc but I didn't understand it. It looked just like raw data with no organization or explanation to me.