TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[ThAdmiral]

I have not really liked silverdrummer's defense of himself in his back-and-forth with MoI, but this next sentence really pushed me over the edge to a scumread on him:

3. You are either an arrogant idiot or you know exactly why he requested replacement which you wouldn't know unless you have inside knowledge.

Everyone please note this as evidence of bussing or cheating or more than likely arrogance

That is a huuuuuge stretch, and accusing MoI of cheating is quite a nasty thing to do without any sort of evidence. I thought the replace out was suspect as well. He claimed he was going to post later and then left the game without any kind of acknowledgement of this in the game thread. And I dont like silverdrummer's hardcore tunnelling on Pine either, it looks like bussing to me (though by himself Pine doesnt look scummy to me, just a serious lurker).

I thought the same thing.

I hope that this site will eventually show him the ropes to being a competitive mafia player.

You only learn by making mistakes pal.

I use these forums to do all the stupid things I would never consider doing on the other forums where I play mafia so that I can see first hand why doing that is a bad idea without screwing with my rep on the site that I take the game seriously.

Also, something about the format or layout of these boards makes it so that I can't look at it for an extended period of time without feeling dizzy, so I couldn't really play seriously here if I wanted to. All I can ever do is skim reads.

I had planned a response where I was going to be all like: "don't take it personally, learn from your mistakes, move on, etc." but after this I give up. You're just an asshole.

unvote

vote: junpei

And the tracker claim?

What of it? It's not some magical anti-lynch shield.

@ zellink: I am struggling to keep up as it is. I will look at izak hopefully tomorrow.

Zinger is at -2 for everyone's information

[ZeL1nK]

I would rather he is replaced than lynched.

The more I think about it, the more I realise he's probably town.

[ZeL1nK]

I've written two walls in the last 15 minutes, filled with explanations as to why I think he's probably town, but I've deleted them both because it's just me calling Zinger a dumbass over and over again. I can't actually figure out a way to explain it without insulting his intelligence multiple times during the course of the post.

But.... he's probably town. And he's a good vig shot, but really.... not worth wasting a D1 lynch on.

People just need to

IGNORE ZINGER

Stop reading his posts.

Get back to scum hunting and stop being lazy.

Just pretend he's not even there.

Unless you legitimately have a reason to suspect he's scum, and it's more substantial than "durrrrrrr he claimed third party", you should stop using him as an excuse to avoid doing anything meaningful today.

Come join me on this izak wagon. It has minigolf and cupcakes. Fun for everyone.

[vollkan]

I've written two walls in the last 15 minutes, filled with explanations as to why I think he's probably town, but I've deleted them both because it's just me calling Zinger a dumbass over and over again. I can't actually figure out a way to explain it without insulting his intelligence multiple times during the course of the post.

But.... he's probably town. And he's a good vig shot, but really.... not worth wasting a D1 lynch on.

People just need to

IGNORE ZINGER

Stop reading his posts.

Get back to scum hunting and stop being lazy.

Just pretend he's not even there.

Unless you legitimately have a reason to suspect he's scum, and it's more substantial than "durrrrrrr he claimed third party", you should stop using him as an excuse to avoid doing anything meaningful today.

Come join me on this izak wagon. It has minigolf and cupcakes. Fun for everyone.

He claimed a role which is anti-town. No, his win condition isn't "kill all townies" or anything like that, but his role and motivations are still anti-town.

The situation is really no different to somebody claiming SK, then backtracking and claiming town vig. And just like lynching a SK, it could theoretically be more beneficial to mafia overall, but you'd be stupid to take that chance.

[ZeL1nK]

Actually it is totally different, because being a SK is actually a believable role. Being a self-aligned Jailkeeper with a lyncher-esque win-con? Nope.

All of the reasoning for the Zinger lynch gets demolished by one simple fact: Zinger is a dumbass. He is so much more likely to do this as town than as any other alignment.

Which is why I think he should just be replaced or ignored until he gets replaced.

[Zinger2099]

@MOD

, hey JT, you're awesome. Enjoyed the game, really. ^_^ Much as I don't want to be replaced, it seems 90% of your players have a fixation on me and refuse to play the game properly until I am out of the picture.

For that reason, and that reason alone, you have my permission to replace me, if you feel you

need

to.

Alternatively, you could just replace everyone else who has a gripe with me. XD

Or you could replace nobody and see what happens. I am very curious to see the outcome myself, so you have my thumbs up to this option as well if you prefer.

Do whatever you feel is best, but above all, do whatever you feel is most entertaining.

Regardless, I think you are a stand-up mod and should definitely keep making games.

[izakthegoomba]

Do whatever you feel is best, but above all, do whatever you feel is most entertaining.

Yes, Zinger. Because this game exists solely to entertain jason.

*facepalm*

[jasonT1981]

crappy replaces Pvt Slate, thank you.

[Meransiel]

Actually it is totally different, because being a SK is actually a believable role. Being a self-aligned Jailkeeper with a lyncher-esque win-con? Nope.

All of the reasoning for the Zinger lynch gets demolished by one simple fact: Zinger is a dumbass. He is so much more likely to do this as town than as any other alignment.

Which is why I think he should just be replaced or ignored until he gets replaced.

This is one way to look at it.

The other is to think that, hey, maybe Zinger's wincon is not that hard to achieve. When does that happen? When his supposed target has a better survivability rate. When does THAT happen? When his target is mafia, naturally.

I don't necessarily believe the above, I was just showing that setup speculation can get one anywhere. What we do know (sort or) is that Zinger is not a member of mafia.

[Meransiel]

izak, please try answering to people that are voting you, it's getting sad.

[crappy]

/confirm

[David Xanatos]

Welcome Crappy. Strange name.. xD

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Chevre

– Who is scum? By this point you should realistically have at least 3 to 4 possible candidates. Looking through your ISO I see many questions but little in the way of developed reads coming from those questions.

--

What of it? It's not some magical anti-lynch shield.

Day 1? Absolutely. Is stops being magical after that with more Day play and Night results to evaluate.

--

I'm here, just need to do a catch up over the next 12 hours.

Wow surprise surprise Easjo required a prod, responded with a non-content “I’ll catch up” post, and failed to deliver on said promise.

Why do people insist on creating more Vig targets than we have probable Vig shots?

--

We believe Zinger should be the lynch for today for several reasons.

Let’s rewind a bit Pappums.

What happened to “Zinger Townslipped”? Please point to the exact post where he did such slip that justified your original statement.

3. His roleclaim does not make sense. He claims that the person he JK's that is his target will be roleblocked for the rest of the game, when he is supposedly a jailkeeper.

This is terrible reasoning. Here’s what Zing-Troll claimed.

1. He’s a self aligned Jailkeeper.
2. He can jail any player only once.
3. He is looking for a specific player.
4. If he jails that player he leaves the game victorious and said player is permanently Role-blocked for the rest of the game.

Aside from all sorts of arguments about the viability of the role and flavor concerns the fact that you are playing ‘outguess the Mod’ here is not Pro-Town.

--

1. Uhhh... is it law that hydras are supposed to have one solid thought? This is news to me... not sure how this is helping at all.

I’m going to give you a scenario that should help you explain why it is a scumtastic thing.

We have Player A. Player A votes for Player Z in a non-RVS fashion Day 1. Later in Day 1 Player A, in response to a question, says “I didn’t see the reasons for the wagon on Player Z at all”. Is Player A scummy for taking directly conflicting stances on Player Z?

Because regardless of whether you are a hydra or not you are one player – Player A. You as a slot are judged by the same standards as any other slot. You don’t get special dispensation to post in a dissonant manner in thread just because you are a Hydra.

You have conflicts between the heads? Resolve them in QT.

2. That was still a page back or two and your missing the point....

No, I’m not missing the point. Your point isn’t valid.

3. You are either an arrogant idiot or you know exactly why he requested replacement which you wouldn't know unless you have inside knowledge. Everyone please note this as evidence of bussing or cheating or more than likely arrogance

I love that you don’t even concede the possibility that I correctly read the situation and am right.

4. Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do about chevre. It has everything to do with Pine. I blacklisted him, dislike him as a player and have said here that had I realized he was in this game I would have stayed the hell away

Ah the truth comes out. Guess what … I don’t give a rats ass if you don’t like Pine or not. Your little personal vendetta is quaint but stupid.

You can either replace out now or continue to try to get him lynched. Do so with your grudge as justification and you’ll probably eat rope sooner than later.

A zinger lynch is stupid...

he's not scum, least not yet

and we can take care of him later if need be.

Explain the bolded because in context of ZingTroll’s claim it makes absolutely no sense.

bussing ala he's a scum partner bussing his scummate

Um weren’t you the head that has been championing Vifam / Junpei’s slot as Town the whole time? How the hell can you possibly believe this theory if you think that slot is Town?

--

Also re: MoI's view on the replacement issue, it's consistent with what I've seen MoI say before. He even linked games in which he used this tell as town, so like... Yeah.

So you actually went and read up on Umbrage’s “Jungle Republic” and LMP’s “KGB Mafia”? Usually people don’t follow through when I give supporting games.

[qutoe="Zel1nk"]^2 scum there.[/quote]

Explain your methodology and thought process that went into this. Is in more complicated than “Hey, I’m picking out slots 6 – 9 on the wagon”?

All of the reasoning for the Zinger lynch gets demolished by one simple fact: Zinger is a dumbass. He is so much more likely to do this as town than as any other alignment.

Did I just see a “Too Dumb for Scum” argument?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok ... more food for thought ...

I've been Neighborized by two seperate players today. Both have claimed the same mechanics behind how they Neighborize.

I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely as heck that both are Town. One may be Third Party. One may be Scum. Both might be Scum.

Discuss the ramifications ...

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, do you think one is more likely to be non-town than the other? (Why?)

[Junpei]

Ok ... more food for thought ...

I've been Neighborized by two seperate players today. Both have claimed the same mechanics behind how they Neighborize.

I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely as heck that both are Town. One may be Third Party. One may be Scum. Both might be Scum.

Discuss the ramifications ...

Wait is this a serious thing or are you trying to make a point.

[ZeL1nK]

So you actually went and read up on Umbrage’s “Jungle Republic” and LMP’s “KGB Mafia”? Usually people don’t follow through when I give supporting games.

No. I played in one of them.

Explain your methodology and thought process that went into this. Is in more complicated than “Hey, I’m picking out slots 6 – 9 on the wagon”?

Based on my reads. I guess it's strangely ironic that their position on the wagon could also be considered scummy.

Did I just see a “Too Dumb for Scum” argument?

I guess you could call it something like that. I've already explained pretty fully why I don't see it coming from Zinger as scum, and Zinger admitting he's third party as third party is just so dumb that I'm willing to call it less likely than him thinking it's a smart thing to do as town.

Like it's 'dumb' play, regardless of alignment. I'm rationalising which alignment this dumb play is most likely to come from.

I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely as heck that both are Town.

Based on...?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, do you think one is more likely to be non-town than the other? (Why?)

Yes, based on QT posting and other factors I’m leaning towards one being much more likely than the other.

Hey, while we are talking – I notice you popped up to discuss this but have yet to address the attack made by PaTB regarding your Cognitive Dissonance. Why don’t you do that? I’ll help motivate you!

VOTE: Silverdrummer
VOTE: Izak

--

Wait is this a serious thing or are you trying to make a point.

If you knew me at all you know I despise “Lulz, gambit claimz” and don’t fuck around with stuff like this.

Why was your first reaction to ask if I was serious?

--

No. I played in one of them.

Which one? Yeah, it is relevant.

Based on...?

Relevant game and QT postings by both players and a gut reaction based on the EXACT claimed duplication of claimed roles.

[ZeL1nK]

O302

[David Xanatos]

MoI, sorry to point it out again, but you did it again. You used the Vote tag instead of Unvote.. thought I should point it out.

And also, are you willing to tell us the names of the people who've neighbourized you? I'm inclined to agree that both aren't likely to be town, so by having the two names we can analyse who's more likely to be non-town..

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, sorry to point it out again, but you did it again. You used the Vote tag instead of Unvote.. thought I should point it out.

And also, are you willing to tell us the names of the people who've neighbourized you? I'm inclined to agree that both aren't likely to be town, so by having the two names we can analyse who's more likely to be non-town..

1. Goddamn it...

UNVOTE: Silverdrummer
VOTE: Izak

2. Not at this stage. On the off chance that one of them isn't Mafia scum (aka Third Party or the unlikely possibility both are Town) then I'm not directly handing over either identity.

[Junpei]

Well with the way your other post ended talking about Zinger it sounded odd to me. You start with "food for thought" which normally means you're about to say something to keep someone's brain busy for a while. Then you basically outline every possible case and say to "discuss the ramifications". It seemed like you were going to make a point about Zinger using this neighborizer example.

May I ask why you felt the need to say this day 1, since you're obviously serious?

[David Xanatos]

Can someone give me a quick overview of what a Neighbourizer is by the way? I can take a rough guess, but I don't see it on the wiki..

[David Xanatos]

The only thing I see is "Friendly Neighbour", and that says mod-confirmed Town, but that's obviously not what MoI means or we wouldn't be having this conversation..

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can someone give me a quick overview of what a Neighbourizer is by the way? I can take a rough guess, but I don't see it on the wiki..

A Neighborizor is a player who can recruit other players into a Neighborhood. When this happens and the limits to the number of Neighbors usually vary by set-up.

As always Neighbors are not Mod confirmed on alignment.