Mafia 110: Mafia in Hell, Michigan (Tied.)

[farside22]

vote: Lowell

Saving myself from your play style.

[farside22]

vote: ace5993

Studies show he has a 48% chance of being scum!

What study?

[farside22]

Alrighty. Semi-random question incoming.

@Everyone: If you are a cop with a guilty on Day 1, do you out yourself and risk getting NK'd or do you wait until you have minimum risk of being killed?

I don't like PR questions. I don't see how they serve a purpse to get reads on players.

my question to everyone:
What is your view on policy lynching?

Do you think scum or town lurk more?

How active are you here at MS?

[farside22]

What is your view on policy lynching?

Typically those that are under the policy lynch guide lines typically get replaced or vig killed so no.

Do you think scum or town lurk more?

Actively lurking I have notice to be more likely scum then town. Lurkering and saying I'm busy can be either town or scum as RL is a bitch.

How active are you here at MS?

I think I'm at #6 as the most active per post on MS. It's pretty sad actaully how active I am.

@Crypto why did you say I should answer my own question but not say the same to richard

Horror: Typically anything PR question wise I avoid. It typically gives scum more info then town. How is it you think something that isn't giving info is useful?

cirno said:

Oh, you filthy liar! Your words are about as true as Farside is young!

Well obviously your an alt if you know me and my age.

Ythan pst 51: Hey I thought he was serious. I missed the sarcasm in the text.

musher post 62: Seriously?
How were you confused by her post exactly?

farside, why did you seem to seriously question a random vote?

I questioned if there was an actual study. God knows being around this place long enough there is a study on about everything mafia.

[farside22]

Pet peeve here, is there a reason you take the names out of the quote tags?

I'm lazy.
Most everything I just copy and paste onto a note pad on my computer and then highlight the quote and click the quote button.
I've working on not doing that but i get lazy from time to time to take those few extra minutes to use the = sign and then do the "name" next to it.

[farside22]

Horror could you please answer my earlier question.

Horror: Typically anything PR question wise I avoid. It typically gives scum more info then town. How is it you think something that isn't giving info is useful?

[farside22]

I think I know Lowell too well now seeing my RVS vote. LOL

vote: Lowell

Saving myself from your play style.

[farside22]

Can we get a little insight into this play style of his?

I have to take off right this moment. I may not get back to this till tomorrow.

[farside22]

RichardGHP wrote:
Alrighty. Semi-random question incoming.

@Everyone: If you are a cop with a guilty on Day 1, do you out yourself and risk getting NK'd or do you wait until you have minimum risk of being killed?

I don't like PR questions. I don't see how they serve a purpse to get reads on players.

richard said:
It will help me determine who is more concerned with keeping themselves alive than with the greater good of the town.

unvote:
vote: richard

Note to self: I owe a link to ythan.

my view without a link on lowell if you like is that he plays anti-town. He is lurky, says stuff that looks scummy and gets many people to look and question him D1. The most recent game I played is currently in progress and I thought he was quiet at first because I thought he might be a PR but he does it in all games no matter his alignment from many a reliable source.
The one game I can link I need to search for but it was a long time ago and I don't remember if he was the same back then as he is now.

[farside22]

Link to a game with lowell:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=50

after the first 2 pages there was a bw on him. He has foot in mouth.

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: richard

Explain this vote. Now.

I your see explanation as scum looking for breadcrumbs from other players and knowing what players to expect those breadcrumbs from.

[farside22]

Anyways.

vote Musher333

This is me voting and feeling that I won't need to unvote for the rest of the day.

My fair Musher, I'm taking that pbpa scheduled for tomorrow as a promise.

Scribe why do you say the above in regards to your vote on Musher

[farside22]

Ythan: Do you have fun playing mafia? Do you find people who joke and make silly remarks are typically scum?

[farside22]

Musher, what do you think of farside?

What has either player said that made you ask that specific player what he thought of that specific other player?

Musher said he was giving thoughts on all the active players. Farside's been pretty active, but he neglected her.

RichardGHP and saintK. have been just as active as scribe so did you miss them for any reason?

[farside22]

Saint's only real posts as far as I'm concerned are his last three. Rich, sure. (But I'm not particularly sure I want to hear anyone's thoughts on him . . .)

Any reason you don't want to hear anyone's thoughts on him?

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: richard

Explain this vote. Now.

I your see explanation as scum looking for breadcrumbs from other players and knowing what players to expect those breadcrumbs from.

Just because

you

see it that way is no reason to vote me and use it as your only reason...

In all my time playing mafia, I've never seen anyone get something so wrong.

Yay scum on page 9 can we lynch please.

Seriously this is scummy, mcscumerson to a boot. Doesn't find it a good reason to vote. States that he's trying to see how if town is looking for self preservation or not is not in the best interest for the town. Guess what it doesn't matter what a person does if they get a cop result. It's not in the town's best interest to find out what a person would do. It's in the best interest of the scum to find this info so yes my vote is more then valid and better then an RVS.

Also cryto didnt' really answer this question I asked

RichardGHP and saintK. have been just as active as scribe so did you miss them for any reason?

@Ythan: I'm female. Just a bit of my own pet peeve if your going to assign gender look at the symbol. I know the avatar throws people off.

[farside22]

@musher: Why do you have no comment on me?

[farside22]

Musher?
Also, don't take it personally. I've just not seen anything particularly ground-breaking that's happened, I've no particular criticisms/praise on how you play or the cases you're making. Things are just... OK.

Sorry molestargazer I was thinking you were musher because he was supposed to get back with more of a PBPA on people.

[farside22]

@SK: Do you think it's in the best interest for town to know what a player who had a cop result would do with info?

[farside22]

Town alone doesn't know the info if it's posted in the thread.

I believe in breadcrumbing results as best I can I would hope most players in the game could do the same but I would never ask a question of what would you do with the results.

Also his answer to why he was doing it seems really false.

[farside22]

If you try the "Intuition sucks" argument on me I will tear you limb from limb.

I'm going to avoid that argument. I was just wondering why you would base a vote on vibes. While inuition can be helpful sometimes, is it really that good on D1?

I think they both can work no matter what day it is especially if you get stuck and most of the people you lynched were town. Reread and go back to your vibes or intuition it can help you out more times then not.

[farside22]

Like i said i posted a few people and would post more if needed, pages are loading slowly but i'll have another reread then i'll comment on farside.

Comment on Richard too please.

[farside22]

wiki told you to stalk a player you get a vibe on!
How creepy is that feeling.

Well it's weird but I can't see a flaw with it actually if the player is scum it may be an interesting reaction you get. I may have to try that method another game for shits and giggles.

As for my read on WRP: he strikes me as anti/VI player. More anti-town but not scummy.
I'm waiting with baited breathe on Richard to come back to this game and explain himself.
SK: you earned my

FOS

.
Something about your quick jump over to WRP. I get a scummy vibe that reminds me of when you were scum in another game I can't shake right now.

[farside22]

yay more attacking from scum and bitching which I agree doesn't strike me as fustrated townie.

cirno: my gut and your gut going to have issue this game too? *cough i know who you really are*cough

[farside22]

yay more attacking from scum and bitching which I agree doesn't strike me as fustrated townie.

To whom is this a reference?

Christ 13 pages in a day and a half? I'll probably just end up supporting whatever wagon is leading. Give me some time.

They tell me you're just awful so I don't know how to read this. If they're not much exaggerating I could see myself supporting a policy lynch on you if we run out of suspects.

That was in regards to Richards reactions and comments on the last page.

Lowell = insert foot and mouth. As I said he typically comes off as anti-town/scum. If he doesn't pick up something soon I may start to wonder if he's faking.

Hey septL guess what it's page 13 and we are not in RVS anymore.
*counts to 10 and goes to bed*

[farside22]

Richard's outdoing himself in the scum department.

Unvote: WRP_Beater. Vote: RichardGHP.

Alright this is the second time you flipped your vote with lack of reasoning and following.

unvote:
vote: SK

I saw you do this with WRP and now richard. It reminds me of opportunistic scum tactics I have seen too often. Jumping from one BW to the other.

[farside22]

What reasoning that you had for this holds up now?

I still find Richard scummy. His response to my vote inched him up forther. His argument and tantrum kept me there.
I hate seeing a player BW and hope from one BW to the other for little to no reason and following others. It reeks of scum for me. SK hasn't put any thought into it and the first time I saw it I fos'ed it. This time it was more blantant. Nothing changed on WRP from Sk's last vote and his flip to Richard looks opportunistic.

[farside22]

crypto: I don't know why you think horror is scum. All I got from you post was a gut tell.

SK: The devil is in the details. You are leaving details out when you vote and just going along with the BW without reason. That is what you seem continue to do.

[farside22]

Everyone pay attention to the people going after SK. I think it's a stretch to follow it as hard as they are. I may be wrong or it may be scummy.

What makes you say this?

Case seems to be based entirely on your vote changes, which seemed perfectly reasonable to me in context when you made them and still do now.

How is it perfectly reasonable to thy person who questions everything?
(and yes I mean you ythan)

[farside22]

Just something reading the wiki doesn't really give a great list on what is normal.
This thread was a great list that many agreed what was considered normal
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13001

As a list mod for open games I consider watcher normal.

[farside22]

farside22 wrote:
How is it perfectly reasonable to thy person who questions everything?
(and yes I mean you ythan)

I don't get what you're trying to do here. It made and makes sense to me.

I'm asking you why Sk's vote mades perfect sense.
Along with that I'm commenting on the fact you question everything people say but don't question SK's vote hopping.

[farside22]

You're questioning how they made sense to me? There was nothing that made them not make sense.

fos

I have seen you be a rather hard ass to any and almost all people in this game so I would actually like a better explaination or I think your letting someone pass by looks mighty suspicious to me now.

[farside22]

I feel like I need to reread things right now in this game. I will have a better post on Monday as weekends are a bit chaotic for me.

[farside22]

Ray do you think scum was given a list of possible safe claims or do you think the watcher claim is fake?

[farside22]

Ray do you think scum was given a list of possible safe claims or do you think the watcher claim is fake?

What the...?!? What kind of question is this?

There hasn't been a counter claim so I want to know why he thinks its a fake claim.
Yes it's possible the role isn't in the game but with 20 players in the game claiming for scum to claim a role not in the game is hard to fathom.

[farside22]

Ray do you think scum was given a list of possible safe claims or do you think the watcher claim is fake?

Considering it's a normal game, that would be odd. I admit my experience in Large Normals is limited, though. Have you ever been in a normal game where scum got safeclaims?

The problem with his claim is that not only does he sound like he's pretty likely lying, his claim isn't very provable.

Also, how likely do you think it is for a watcher to be in a normal game? Yes, there's 20 people, but of all normal roles, watcher's about the least likely one I can think of...

Let me start by saying I don't clear richard because of the claim. I only have seen theme games were mafia were given safe claims but not a PR that is safe.
And yes I can see it possible that scum being given a watcher role. I still have my eye on him and if he thinks because he claimed watcher he should get to slide by and do nothing he's deluding himself.
With that said watcher is provable as he says who he watched and if someone targeted that player. Sure he could lie but if he's lying we vote his butt into a noose.
As a mod I like to have a tracker over a watcher but it depends on the set up where it's in the game or not. I did have a mafia watcher and a town tracker in one game I modded but that was a theme game. I would have to look at other large games to see how many mods use it.

[farside22]

I only asked because Ray called it a fake claim. I wanted to know why he believed it to be fake and well deep down I'm always hoping to trap scum.
That said I just looked a bit down the list and found 3 large games where a watcher was used and about 4 games with tracker. So watcher isn't any more uncomman then tracker.

[farside22]

Why are you trying to lynch a Town PR?

I don't buy it. If you're really a watcher, tell us your result.

*headsmack*
There was no night 0 so he will not have results today.

[farside22]

Riddick: Can you expand on why you think WRP is scum. I get VI vibe every time I read one of his post

[farside22]

Hmm farside what do you think of Richard? I apologise if you've already said, but it'll save me looking back.

I didn't like Richards opening question or his response to why he asked the question. I felt and still feel there is no town reason to know how a player will behave with a scum results.
He has mostly been defending himself more then scum hunting and his claim point although early part of me wonders if he will think he is safe because he claimed watcher and shouldn't have to scum hunt.

[farside22]

Something tells me that Riddick's daykill was a test on WRP. and needless to say, he failed miserably.

Vote: WRP_Beater

Why do you think this?

[farside22]

[quote="crypto]AT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? He claimed VT, with what looks like role PM paraphrasing.[/quote]

He did?

Oh right there wasn't any night 0 O_O
Anyway Riddick, why did you daykill me without even asking once for a RC? Anyway, I am (or at least was) a VT. I win with the town. Also, I know now you can't cancel the daykill. Believe me, I'm a VT. Why would I lie when I am daykilled? You've just wasted a daykill.

Looking at my own PM it says I win when I get rid of all people against the town (paraphrased) so I'm don't really see his phrasing as confirmed town.

[farside22]

Did Farside just claim VT or just town?

Should you really be asking this question?

horror I expect an answer for my question

Richard don't think becuase you claimed watch you can slide by with that vote.

fos: richard

[farside22]

When I look at a player with no questionable posts next to one with a number of questionable posts, even if they were all explained, what do you think I'm thinking?

If I see a player saying that wrp is cleared based on that claim and the claim doesn't match what do you think I'm thinking?

Right now my vote is staying on SK because nothing he has done or said has changed my view.
my second choice would be crypto for saying WRP is clear and saying it was a role claim paraphrase where I don't see how that is the case at all.
Richard comes of scummy for many a various reason I already stated.

[farside22]

crypto said:

1. Did I say he was clear? Quote me. There's a stark difference between castigating horrordude for saying something ridonkulous—while implying a town shift in my read on Beater—and clearing Beater.
2. He stated his win condition. That smells like paraphrasing. As for discrepancies, don't mods who don't paste VT PMs publicly vary them?

1.

Something tells me that Riddick's daykill was a test on WRP. and needless to say, he failed miserably.

Vote: WRP_Beater

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

He claimed VT

, with what looks like role PM paraphrasing.

Why are you yelling at horror like this then?
2. How do you see his comment as paraphrasing in the least? Can you show a game that is normal that a mod varied VT PM's?


richard stated;

I asked a perfectly legit question, explained why, and claimed a power role. I'm struggling to find this elusive wrongfulness.

Oh yes asking people what they would do with as a cop with a guilty seems so pro-town.
Your explanation looks shifty as hell and now you claimed and haven't done anything worth a damn

I'm just up for whatever the town decides, I never really feel like scumhunting on Day 1.

IE: I'm going to lurk and not make any cases so I don't look scummy? Seriously this is lazy/scum material that makes me want to vote you again.

[farside22]

I would like to hear why everyone seems to think the same way you do; isn't weeding out those more concerned with saving their own asses than helping the town GOOD for said town?

Claiming at L-5 is saying your own ass.

If I tried to scumhunt on Day 1, I would not do a very good job of it, so I think it's best if I start doing it once I am forced to due to lack of players remaining. Scumhunting on Day 1 is lost on me, I literally can't do it, unless anyone CC's a PR I correctly claim.

So lets trying this why the vote on WRP? Is it he has the biggest bw? What makes you think it's town motivated bw?

[farside22]

Would someone explain the Horrordude case to me so I can agree with it, follow with a vote for him, and confirm Farside's suspicions that I'm mindlessly-bandwagoning scum? Thanks so much!

I find Richard's view on Day 1 a tad disturbing.

Sarcasm noted.
What is the difference between ace an a few other floaters throwing votes I noticed?

[farside22]

Would you point at me and laugh if I say it's because he's voting for Horrordude?

No. But I will ask if you read peoples views on Horror and what you concluded on it.

[farside22]

Cryto: how do you see WRP as paraphrasing his win condition?

[farside22]

Screw it.

unvote:
vote: Crypto

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

[farside22]

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

(condescending sigh)

I win with the town.

How is that paraphrasing a the town PM? You can keep avoiding the question but I'm quiet happy with my vote.
jbernier93: If you see what I'm talking about and you see it's over his head why are you voting horror?

[farside22]

Farside why do you think Crypto scum would make that post if he's not town? And tbf Crypto's matching my meta of him atm, so I think he's town for that reason.

I don't see a town person saying that what WRP stated is a paraphrasing of a PM. Do you see it as a paraphrasing?

[farside22]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

Not really I have seen both do scum and town ask for replacement. I think it depends on the situation (example too much pressure) if someone ask for replacement it tends to be scum.

[farside22]

Am I incorrect in finding that requests for replacement tend toward scum?

I think they're just flakes. By all means analyze what posts they have made but asking for more content is secondary to asking to stop flaking.

Seriously what's the difference between those who asked for replacement and the flakers who will need to be replaced (most likely)

[farside22]

I think SK is scum for following BW and now going on to lurker lynching policy. He has offered little to nothing and sets my scumdar off the hook.
Crypto is my number one suspect for the following and called WRP a VT:

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

(condescending sigh)

I win with the town.

Finally Richard: The I claimed at L-5 and asked players what they would do if they got a gulity on a player. The player that wants to follow BW and sit on his thumb day 1. Yay I still think he's scum.

[farside22]

Why are you assuming there's only three scum, Farside? Or do you only have three suspects?

3 main suspects right now.

I think you're having problems with my "I win with the town".
It's like "All Pro-Mafias and 3rd Party roles are dead, I win".

Wow the newb gets my issue with cryto. Listen I know your not really helping but Cryto said that your "I win with the town" is a paraphrase of a PM.
Do you see the issue I have with Cryto?

[farside22]

Okay.

unvote.

Vote: Richard

GPS

GHP

I think that HDude is just being too-newb. I don't think he's scum. (HDude: If you do flip scum, I will hate you. Forever.)

FoS: Ythan.

Too much attention being paid to HDude. Let's do Richard today, possibly StKerrigan (or maybe, just

maybe,

you!) tomorrow. Deal?

Whoa! Umm what is your reason's for this vote and your lining of of lynches?

[farside22]

Don't make me turn this car around!!

Seriously this arguement reminds me of two kids bickering in the back seat of the car.

son 1: He called me scum
son 2: I did and I will continue to do so
son 1: You are so lame
son 2: no your scum that needs to go away
son1: no your wrong, so wrong. Mom I'm not scum am I?

[farside22]

I'm voting now for NS

unvote:
vote:Nobody Special

buddying, following, and oh I thought I had something bs, bs, bs.
Plus he FOS'ed someone he says he trust. Give me a break. Pure scum.

Kids stop squabbling and vote for NS. Thanks.

[farside22]

We can do NS tomorrow if you want. I'm not going through another day phase of Dude's inane blithering.

let me see something first. I have a feeling this just is bickering and not scummy.

[farside22]

those past 3/4 pages are such a waste of time to read. idk, I don't see horror doing this as scum, tbh. I have a gut town read on him.

I dubbed him a VI. But I'm going to look at the votes on him and see if there is a scum motivated wagon. With SK and I think NS not on the wagon (will check this again) I have to wonder.

[farside22]

Okay so I took a look at the wagon and I have to say the people I suspect the most in this game are not on there except crypto.
I really hate the argument between my 2 sons (that's a joke if you missed it from earlier).
Horror is definitely OMGUS on Ythan and his vote and reasoning for his vote wrong on so many levels.
I remember a game where someone commented about a player who rolled a die to do an RVS and the player said hey you don't normally do it and called the player scum and they were scum.
I'm not sure if the smiley thing that got Ythan fits here.
UGH I just don't know I think of voting mostly because of the people not on the wagon for Horror.

I'm going to think more on this sorry for my random thoughts.

[farside22]

Horror: Let me just say not everyone here at MS is a fun sucker.

I have been here (looks at date) almost 2 1/2 years. I have had my ups and downs and I have a black list of players I never, ever want to play with again. That list is small for as long as I have been here. Don't let one player influence your time here at MS.
There are many great players and games to play.

Deadline is the 10th. This game has priority one for a reread and thoughts.
Personally I like my vote on NS but I don't see anyone agreeing with me.

[farside22]

Horror is my biggest read, the others have less evidence and more gut, so let's look at him for the moment and flesh out the cases on the others when he's dead. If it's not the least bit inconvenient iso me and look at posts 34, 36, 56, the bit of 92 about him, the bit of 105 about him, and the bit of 142 about him. It adds up. If you would like me to explain or elaborate on any little thing then by all means ask.

Here is I think the best one.

I would like an expantion on why you think it adds up, but give me 20 minutes to read it first.

[farside22]

Okay post 34 is talking about the smiley - meh
post 36 more on the smiley and it can be taken also that he finds it funny that someone has scum vibes on him.

I wasn't questioning H Dude for explaining his vote, but for framing it as less than completely serious.
Also, no pressure about smilies in general. Pressure about what I read (present tense, still do) as trying to undermine the case on him without really addressing it.

I need an explaination on this. Please quote the vote this is in regards to. What case is he underminding if it's not the one from cryto on his vibes thing?

Post 105 is not OMGUS. I saw the comment stated and it was after horror unvoted so I see the question and the vote valid

92 I see more about the smilely issue. And I don't really understand this:

horrordude0215 wrote:
Sorta... I would've probably done the same thing if I were in your shoes, now that I know what your talking about lol
Despite the fact that you didn't know what I meant by attack you were still doing it so hanging onto this.

Reading the talks in regards to this post it's about your fos and what an argument is why is this something worth holding onto?

Where did he continue to do an argument? Was this in regards to crypto?

[farside22]

I think the one thing I'm seeing is that with some pressure from ythan about horror's comment and vote on me is that he unvotes and doesnt' explain the semi-serious vote very well.

ythan: With the question you were asking to horror in regards to his reason's for saying that I get the impression that there is nothing that horror could have said that would satisfy. It's just an impression I get reading it.

On another side I can see it as scum backing off of a vote and comment that they are unsure if it was too over the top.

[farside22]

How do you see that as distancing?

IC hat on

When ythan asked you about your reasoning you started to back down from it and then you said something was better then nothing, then unvoted like someone caught doing a bad thing.
He's talking about the actions you took and comments you made towards that vote.

[farside22]

Ic hat off:

I think that beginning is the only thing I can agree with you on ythan. It's funny I keep thinking about a scum caught on someone so small as a die roll that smilely could be a scum tell.
I think Ace was the only vote I really questioned that was placed on horror.
Crypto, well his vibe vote doesn't really fly. I have vibes too and part of me wonders if those "vibes" is scum bussing.

unvote:
vote: Horror

This puts horror at L-1

[farside22]

I got the impression he was at L-1 sorry about that but NS hammer faux is horrid.
Is there any way I can get this train onto him?

Horrid I think you should claim your role at this point.

[farside22]

Scribe: Why do you think NS is scum? What did you think about horror backing away when ythan was grilling him on his vote on me and his reasoning during the start of the day?

[farside22]

Horrid I think you should claim your role at this point.

I already claimed VT

sorry I thought you just said your a townie. I'm tired.

horror please read the game over. Don't look at ythan, richard, cryto for any of there post and tell me beides those 3 who you think is scum and why.

unvote:

I want to prevent any rash behavor I see so horror can do this.

[farside22]

I'll see what I can do, although you know you're asking me to not look at my 3 top suspects, right?

Yes,

he

she does. Now go. Be convincing.

fixed.

DS:
Read post 84 to post 95 and the exchange between ythan and horror.

[farside22]

NS was my next suspect as scum but I need to look at crypto in isolation too.
By the way I think WRP may be town based on the comments that crypto jumped to with WRP.
I also had DS scum based on his switch after so long of defending horror he switch for such a little reason. It really is disturbing to me.

[farside22]

Looking at cryto's scum o meter there is no reason I can find that NS was up so high. He didn't really stand out as anything special.
Going to look at mole next and something else I remember happening when I attacked cryto for his remark towards me when he misinterpreted the win condition of the town.

[farside22]

So these were the 2 that stood out to me when I discussed the misinterpretation from crypto in regards to his belief that WRP paraphrased his role PM

Farside why do you think Crypto scum would make that post if he's not town? And tbf Crypto's matching my meta of him atm, so I think he's town for that reason.

jbernier93: If you see what I'm talking about and you see it's over his head why are you voting horror?

Because, IMO, Horror is scummier.

Riddick needs to explain his town meta on crypto and jbernier needs to explain why horror was scummier.

[farside22]

Oh right there wasn't any night 0 O_O
Anyway Riddick, why did you day kill me without even asking once for a RC? Anyway, I am (or at least was) a VT. I win with the town. Also, I know now you can't cancel the day kill. Believe me, I'm a VT. Why would I lie when I am daykilled? You've just wasted a daykill.

This post still gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Oh, and Farside, just wondering why you haven't mentioned me yet, seeing as I was a top suspect of yours yesterday.

Your not my top suspect I still got my eye on you.

[farside22]

I notice a lot of people ignored it or just asked if I claimed VT.
I only had those who responded to go off of to ask questions to.

Also, I'm not sure I buy into the Crypto "scumslip" theory.

Farside, SK is the only other person I found who commented on the slip, so yeah. While we may have stood out for being wrong, I think we at least discussed it to some degree when everyone else seemed to ignore it.

I missed this.
SK why did you not buy into the scumslip theory? Did you not realize there was not a VT or sample PM at the front for people to refer to?

[farside22]

Last post for now. Looking at the vote count on horror:

horrordude0215 (town) - 9 - pman5595, Ythan, Crypto (scum), Lowell, ace5993, MoleStargazer, JBernier93, Nobody Special, DedicatedScribe, horrordude0215 (town), RichardGHP (town) - (LYNCHED)

The worse reason/votes on this bw was lowell, ace, Jbernier, NS and as I said i didnt like DS's sudden change.
The people who need to speak more on the game is lowell, ace (replacement) and NS.

[farside22]

@SK: Did you even look at your win condition to compare. That wasn't close to a paraphrase.
jbernier93: Why did you vote for horror for weak reason? Why blame ythan for his hard push when there were others (you, ace, lowell) that said next to nothing but still voted for horror.

[farside22]

- Voting without explanation
People do that as town. Although as time goes by, when reasons exist and none are produced, then there's cause for concern.

Then why did you vote for Ace?

[farside22]

@SK: 4 post is actively lurking?

I'm just curious what people define as actively lurking.

[farside22]

gut check reading cryto one more time

fos: lowell

vote: SK

Lets go over the list. riding bw. looking at lurkers more then scum hunting. Defending cryto has poor reasoning for seeing WRP paraphrase as just I win with town as a paraphrase. Not close. No that was a statement nothing more.
Side note I think the way cryto tried to push for WRP with crap reasoning that WRP is town.

[farside22]

Wait I missed this

vote:Ythan

Crypto and Ythan agreed some and fought some yesterday. Lots of interaction between the two until Ythan started pushing the horror lynch way too hard. Crypto put Ythan low on his list. Ythan's bickering with Horror was very anti-town.

I don't mean it was a bad lynch, I'm referring to the fact that Ythan had to be an asshole about it.

This is vote worthy! And that is not what you said in the first place.
backtrack much......grrrrr

unvote:
vote: jbernier

this looks just as viable as SK and I want pressure on this guy too.

[farside22]

Also, aren't you being a little ungrateful?

don't

[farside22]

Both ythan and SK shut up now. I swear I will smack the next person who says a word on this.

[farside22]

looking at lurkers more then scum hunting.

Excuse me? I was going after someone that I felt was active lurking, which I define as scummy.

Lets not forget riken

anyways I like my vote where it is.

[farside22]

Anyone want to tell me that they find this ^ town and then tell me why?

Your lucky I want to pressure jb or I would be voting you for role fishing.

[farside22]

Do you know scum to talk like the 3 of us in thread NS?
What makes it so scummy?
I noticed you didn't look at who cryto could be scum with and you follow ythan who you called town and scum in the same post.

[farside22]

I want a play by play explanation of everything that went through your head from the moment you first read my name to the moment it appeared on your suspect list.

People in hell want ice water, too; doesn't mean they get it.

My entire suspicion of you is based on this 7 minute gap being called a simpulpost. That's it.

There is so much more out there. Look at cryto in isolation and go find connections. I still have my eye on you and just because something is unknown doesn't = scum
Your list has 3 people because of your unknown.

[farside22]

@jbernier93: Why did you think horror was scummier then crypto?

[farside22]

I spend 3 posts explaining my reasoning for horror-vote, and you are still disturbed?

It was more odd on how you didn't believe he was scum to changing your mind as you did.

As for the second Crypto had NS very high on his list and from what I read there was not reason for it.

[farside22]

I'm in your top three for two posts I've made today? Seriously? 43 pages worth of posts, and I'm in your top three based off of those two? (Nevermind that I'm not backpedaling)

Any reason you are not attacking NS for having suspicion on 3 people based on something that happened today?

[farside22]

As for the second Crypto had NS very high on his list and from what I read there was not reason for it.

Why are you considering Crypto's list as anything but WIFOM?

It's something to look at that he posted. Scum tend to put their scum buddies either at the top, middle or end.
There is always a reason this list had none and looking at everyone and who he put where is noteworthy.
NS in this case had next to nothing really said but was higher then me.
Now sure scum can use the list to misinform the town but I already have a belief that NS is scum.

[farside22]

Meh richard's death should not be looked into or why a doc didn't protect. I can see reason why a doc wouldn't protect him.

[farside22]

No, you guys are idiots. I'm glad you agree with each other at least, though.

CALM DOWN LOWELL. Who's your top suspects btw??????

Also it's probably a good idea to stop discussing why any hypothethical doc may or may not have protected richard, it doesn't do us any good really.

Not that I see it often but there are times the mafia has a doc. It's not like you sit there and think is the doc possibly mafia since rich is dead and was killed.
I can see it as a weigh issue but I tip the scale towards if there is a doc just someone/something I would keep an eye on.

[farside22]

Whoa that's tripping seeing SK vote and then WRP post right after.

SK why the vote for WRP?

[farside22]

WRP makes me wish for a vig. I just read it all as VI and non helpful.

[farside22]

Oh I just assumed SK with the kill not a vig. I don't know why.
I guess it's because I didn't see anyone agreeing with me except Dr.C about crypto

[farside22]

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

Because she said she wished for a vig. To me, it seems like that means she knows there already isn't a vig. Since we had two kills last night, that leaves three possible options: two scumteams, vigilante, or Serial Killer. Since Crypto flipped simple Mafia Goon, that rules out two scumteams. Now that Farside said that she wished for a vig, it seems to rule out that possibility as well. Hence, a Serial Killer, and I'm betting Farside's it.

Why would you think I know if there is a vig?

[farside22]

Excuse me, Farside? We had two kills last night. How do you know that an SK didn't make a kill?

Now your asking me about a SK after saying I wish for a vig. Make up your mind. I didn't do a kill and my first thought is a few vigs I know do not kill night 1.

[farside22]

Why would you think I know if there is a vig?

Because you said you wished for a vig. That implies you already know there isn't one. The only way you could know that there is no vig is if you are a Serial Killer.

the kill on the mafia is either vig or sk. I don't know which and I never assume.
I did my comment in mussing more. For someone who was trying to make comments earlier today about me being greatful you certainly jumpy about things you know nothing about SK.

[farside22]

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Even if she [farside] was the SK, how would she know if there was a vig or not?

Because there were only two kills last night. One was the Mafia, and since there aren't two scumteams, the other kill had to come from either a vig or a serial killer. If Farside is the SK, then she knows there isn't a vig. Conversely, if she knows there isn't a vig, then she must be the SK.

How do we know there are not 2 scum teams?
Did the mod post what roles could be out there?

[farside22]

And has anybody noticed how Farside's suddenly gone quiet once this discussion came up?

By the way I go to lunch around the same time every day. Between 12:40 or 1pm I start my lunch and I take an hour. This is a bit opportunist comment.

Finally my last question to SK.

How did I know that crypto had misinterpted what the town PM win condition is. Unless you don't know what the win condition is??

[farside22]

For someone who was trying to make comments earlier today about me being greatful you certainly jumpy about things you know nothing about SK.

What was the point of this?

Because I'm trying not to role claim. He's being jumpy off of musing.

[farside22]

the kill on the mafia is either vig or sk. I don't know which and I never assume.

Oh I just assumed SK with the kill not a vig. I don't know why.

Contradiction much?

okay it is. But I'm not a SK.
Do you know there is a vig? Because your acting like you know something now.

How do we know there are not 2 scum teams?
Did the mod post what roles could be out there?

Because Crypto flipped a simple mafia goon. If there had been two scumteams, there would have been something in the role name to distinguish which scumteam Crypto was on.

Feels like you're backpedaling here, Farside...

Well how would you feel being attacked for a musing comment?
excuse me for not being able to explain myself.

FOS: SK

What were you alluding I should be greatful for. Now I think your covering up something you know.

[farside22]

Finally my last question to SK.

How did I know that crypto had misinterpted what the town PM win condition is. Unless you don't know what the win condition is??

[farside22]

Selective Scumhunting

I fail to see the relevancy of what the article says to what I'm doing. I'm positive I've caught an SK, which is just as much an enemy to the town as the scum are, and I'm trying to eliminate said SK.

By the way most of the time scum looks for a SK more then town. Especially (1) if there is a SK that just went and killed one of there own (2) because it means they could be shot/killed

Last time it was mostly mussing comment. You know why because a vig will either target a VI they think is scum so the town doesn't waste a mislynch or b they target a player they think is scum or is anti/town that is hurting the town.
I don't know who did the kill but someone seems to think it's a SK based off of a musing comment.

[farside22]

And has anybody noticed how Farside's suddenly gone quiet once this discussion came up?

By the way I go to lunch around the same time every day. Between 12:40 or 1pm I start my lunch and I take an hour. This is a bit opportunist comment.

How am I supposed to know that? For that matter, how am I supposed to believe you?

Finally my last question to SK.

How did I know that crypto had misinterpted what the town PM win condition is. Unless you don't know what the win condition is??

You know...that's actually a good point.

Unvote: Farside22.

Well since the search engine went away you can't check by that anymore. But I'm sure if you are savey enough to research my current games you will see I posted no where for the time I was gone and this was the first place I came back as soon as I got online.
I work mon - fri 8am to 5pm PST. You want a pic of my office I can post it here.

[farside22]

I want to know what I should be greatful for.....but I can't get pissed at SK. He's right even with what I was doing is mussing, I reacted crappy.
I like jb as scum and NS is a close second. Beside this was the first time I saw SK react to anything that didn't seem scummy like at BW or following or even those lurkers.

[farside22]

I hadwave that statement with an accusation of opportunism.

I'm pissed at myself for reacting before thinking. Take it as you want.
I think the only big opportunist comment was me disappearing from the talks when things got heated.

[farside22]

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

Because she said she wished for a vig. To me, it seems like that means she knows there already isn't a vig. Since we had two kills last night, that leaves three possible options: two scumteams, vigilante, or Serial Killer. Since Crypto flipped simple Mafia Goon, that rules out two scumteams. Now that Farside said that she wished for a vig, it seems to rule out that possibility as well. Hence, a Serial Killer, and I'm betting Farside's it.

This..is actually surprisingly not as crazy as it sounds on first read. Now I think it's very possible you're reading too much into what farside says, but I definitely don't think it's a bad angle to push.

This is the most wishy washy post from riddick.

IE; reading too much but should still be pushed. He's not taking a stance in this post at all. Usually that reads scummy to me.

[farside22]

@riddick: I was saying what in your post was wishy washy in case people missed it

Farside, are you saying that if there's a doc we should consider that it might be a mafia doc?

I don't want to out guess the mod. I'm playing devils advocate at times and it's my achelies heel.
I can see why lowell would makes his comment about where was the doc protect but I can see why not. It's not a great thing to consider if doc is scum or town it's just something to keep an eye on.

[farside22]

It's not a great thing to consider if doc is scum or town it's just something to keep an eye on.

And this is something I'll be keeping my eye on if I see you on a doctor wagon at some point in the future.

If a doc claimed right now I would be asking them why they didn't protect richard but I would not hammer or keep my vote on the without a valid reason.
Right now the doc alignment is null.

[farside22]

Are you saying a doctor would have a 50/50 chance of being town or scum?

Right now the doc alignment is null.

[farside22]

I can see why. But then I look at things 2 or 3 times and wonder about things too much and can see things that could be scum or may be town.
I will go back and forth many a time on issues.

I will have a moment where I will wonder why the scum took a chance and killed rich. As lowell said it seemed like an obvious target. Things like that get to you and you have to wonder in the back of your head. If you don't then you have more info then you should.

[farside22]

I don't think that not wondering about the alignment of an unconfirmed doctor is an indicator of knowing too much.

Seriously I'm calling you fun sucker for the rest of the game or mr. literal
Take your pick.

I'm sure you have no doubts about anything right? Never question anything in a game and just go full out in every game? I have to ask because I get robot emotions just oozing from you. Most people question motives. It's normal human reaction go look it up in a book.

[farside22]

jbernier:

Obviously farside's whole argument against you just went over your head.

Anyway

vote: horrordude.

This is what gets to me. Something like this slip where someone almost looks to be giving the heads up to a scum buddy
but see's that the paraphrasing doesn't match up but still goes onto the horrow wagon.
Gives me all sorts of scum vibes.

He voted farside in a serious manner for one thing that was only vaguely scummy, if at all. That's what I meant by premature.

I also want to know why a vibe vote is considered not scummy to someone who points out horror's vote on me as serious.

WOW that's kinda premature in my opinion. Actually very very premature.

fos:horrordude

Problem is that your diction made it sound like a serious vote.

I find scum always try their best not to be hypocrites. This FOS is here because voting horror at this point would be just that. Something just rings falst

vote:Ythan

Crypto and Ythan agreed some and fought some yesterday. Lots of interaction between the two until Ythan started pushing the horror lynch way too hard. Crypto put Ythan low on his list. Ythan's bickering with Horror was very anti-town.

I don't mean it was a bad lynch, I'm referring to the fact that Ythan had to be an asshole about it.

Lets not forget there was 43 pages and the best scum suspect he has is based on a player pushing for a wagon he did nothing to stop or interfer in.

@jbernier93: Why did you think horror was scummier then crypto?

Honestly, the only thing I remember being scummy about crypto was the whole "paraphrased role pm" thing. There were numerous things scummy about Horror. (his AtEs, various posts, wishywashiness, etcc)

Did you say anything like that during your vote?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#2142909

Why no the only thing here was the ATE

This is why my vote stands on Jbernier. Some is gut. Some of it is backtracking. His going for the easy players first voting for WRP and then horror. He almost ignores crypto in a lot of his post and he never stated a real reason for voting for WRP. It was just a bunch of quotes with no reason.

[farside22]

Scum tend to put their scum buddies either at the top, middle or end.

Why do you think this? You think they put them all in the same place?

I have rarely seen scum put there scum buddies all in one category.
They spread them out as town and scum so they look better to the town if someone they had a list below was scum.
But if they flip their list is pretty scattered typically to give the town less info.

Rather than put words in your mouth, can you explain/clarify the bolded part?

What is there to explain with the bold.
Either the one that killed the mafia (aka crypto) is a vig or SK. Since Saint pointed out that the mod just put mafia goon there can't be a second mafia and there is no other kill exist for a normal game. As anything else that can kill is not normal.

[farside22]

Ythan: Do you believe that Jb's vote on you has some validation?
Lowell: Please expand more on this belief you have on DS. It's very vague.

[farside22]

Ythan: Do you believe that Jb's vote on you has some validation?
Lowell: Please expand more on this belief you have on DS. It's very vague.

32 Same here. His vote on me was not unreasonable and neither was his explanation for it.

Why? He's voting for you because basically he thinks your a jerk and bully.
Do you find scum tend to be that way?

Same question to JB. Do you find scum tend to push like that?

Also ythan: I have to say I find it odd you don't see his comment about you pushing a lynch on horror while he sat back and said nothing as a no comment and reasonable response.

[farside22]

This for me is a big scum tell.

vote:Ythan

Crypto and Ythan agreed some and fought some yesterday. Lots of interaction between the two until Ythan started pushing the horror lynch way too hard. Crypto put Ythan low on his list. Ythan's bickering with Horror was very anti-town.

If you look he voted himself for horror and for the rest of the day stayed out of the argument but blames ythan for pushing the horror lynch way too hard.
Using Crypto's list saying you were low on his list of suspects is just sad. I can say looking at ythan's post although fun sucker is a word I would use his push, drive and questions doesn't look scummy.
Who stays out of players bickering with each other? Mostly the scum.

[farside22]

NS posted in another game at 2:46 today. But nothing here despite so many ignored questions.

I'm waiting on Jb and a few of the more quiet ones to speak out right now.

[farside22]

JB: I would love to see an actual case on Ythan instead of the post saying it's not going anywhere.

ythan: What happened from saying Jb is a solid lynch for tomorrow to going after WRP?

[farside22]

Unvote Vote Nobody Special

too. WRP_Beater seems to be getting no support as a wagon but this is pretty good too.

Why do you think NS is a pretty good wagon? Who are your top 3 scum suspectes?

[farside22]

In regards to Jb:

Makes sense. I'll definitely keep this in mind once NS is dead.

In regards to WRP

He can be scum tomorrow. Today NS is scum.

Your seeming to give yourself a lot of people to line up lynches with for tomorrrow.

[farside22]

JB: I would love to see an actual case on Ythan instead of the post saying it's not going anywhere.

I made my case when I voted?

A player that attacked someone you were voting on and you did nothing to interfer and you want to blame and call that player scum because of that?
Really?

[farside22]

So, I want people to either vote for NS, or tell me why you aren't. That sounds like a good request.

Last time ythan argued to lynch someone he was wrong

ooooo burn!!!!

Okay now that I got that out of my system. I know I had suspicion on NS but I don't want to let jb off the hook.

Mod vote count please!

I want to compare the votes on NS from the one's that were on horror yesterday for a moment.

[farside22]

I don't think its too early to request a role claim.

Isn't it standard for someone NOT voting me to request the claim?

No.

God today has been a day.

DS: do you really think my reason's for Jb as scum is terrible or the reason's I'm not switching votes yet is terrible?
Why?

[farside22]

Somebody not voting NS request a claim from him. And then vote him.

Makes me wish I was voting for NS just do this.

[farside22]

Looking at all those who voted for NS so far this is by far the worse vote and reasoning. I don't care for people who are I agree and go off someone they found scum to go after someone else on a BW vote.

Here's what I was looking for.

Glad the Richard issue was cleared up. And dead scum too!

Perfect tell, commenting on the obvious. You mostly appear town, but IGMEOY.

Morning all...
So Richard is gone and so is Crypto.
One townie, one mafia.
Not bad for a night 1...I guess. Although I could have done without seeing a townie PR gone so quickly. I am going to re-read day one and come up with a more substantive post a little later.

Nothing.

This is also an interesting piece of that particular puzzle if you didn't see.

Even though I don't like Ythan (by way of thinking he is scummy or at least a bully (anti-town)) I must concur with his logic against NS. It seems solid and until NS comes up with an explanation.

Unvote
Vote: NS

So far everyone else on the NS wagon as a good and valid reason.

[farside22]

Tell me how I'm wrong here Jb.

This for me is a big scum tell.

vote:Ythan

Crypto and Ythan agreed some and fought some yesterday. Lots of interaction between the two until Ythan started pushing the horror lynch way too hard. Crypto put Ythan low on his list. Ythan's bickering with Horror was very anti-town.

If you look he voted himself for horror and for the rest of the day stayed out of the argument but blames ythan for pushing the horror lynch way too hard.
Using Crypto's list saying you were low on his list of suspects is just sad. I can say looking at ythan's post although fun sucker is a word I would use his push, drive and questions doesn't look scummy.
Who stays out of players bickering with each other? Mostly the scum.

[farside22]

vote molestargazer

for now

It's day 2 and unless there is a really good reason for this I'm missing??

fos: Ray

[farside22]

vote molestargazer

for now

It's day 2 and unless there is a really good reason for this I'm missing??

fos: Ray

I don't understand what you don't see... From what I saw yesterday, he seemed to be making really large posts that came to the same consensus that everyone else did. Seems generally fake to me and like he's trying to get away with bandwagoning by being wordy. Feels more "trying to seem protown" than "town."

Don't really understand the FoS, considering there have been several other people to vote today while mentioning no reasoning, and you didn't FoS them.

I'm to page 45ish, by the way.

1) lots of players in the game I'm bound to miss some.
2) show me a person today who voted without a reason and I will fos them too.

[farside22]

And there was a question and answer from SK in regards to his vote

@ Farside: Originally the vote was a test to see if WRP was active lurking. The simulpost made that moot, but what he posted has set off some scumbells for me. We'll see how he answers my questions.

So.......

[farside22]

No today you have to vote for NS.

sigh

unvote:
vote: NS

And before I get grief I would like to point out I noticed NS day 1 following ythan and his discrepancies with saying ythan is scum but still following him.

[farside22]

unvote;

vote Nobody Special

farside brings it up in post 1345, but I think that if NS flips scum there is a very good chance that Rikenslope is scum with him.

As much as this game needs to progress, there is still numerous people not talking. Everyone, if you have not already, should chime in with their top three with why.

My vote puts NS at L-2.

Are you following me?

[farside22]

Reading unsight in isolation (he/she) seems tunneled onto SK. I see some suspicion on lowell and NS. But I don't see a good reason as unsight had on SK.

Do you ever sense when someone is just posting in response to what players say but don't really give insight into their thought process?
Well that is how Unsight's post strike me.
Just something I have my eye on as well.

[farside22]

Only in the sense that I voted directly after you. I commented earlier that I would support either a jb or NS lynch.

Plus, I think you made a good point [regarding Rikenslope] and no one commented on it. I think Rikenslope is scum trying to give buddy NS an out by saying "until he [NS] comes up with an explanation". The fact that no one commented on it irks me, so I decided to bring it back up.

I'm getting used to being ignored by most.
I could see bussing and riken although at first I gave a break because of all the RL issues he stated, hasn't really struck me as town afterwards and just seems to being laying low and not giving any of his own oppinion.

[farside22]

The next question is: Why now? Right now, I see this as a thinly veiled attack for not having joined the Nobody Special wagon and I don't like it at all.

There is a lot of players in the game. I'm going to miss them. Something with strike me about a player and I will go back to figure out what it was. I also posted that as a note either to myself or anyone who reads what others say after they left the game what I felt during the game. I truely believe if your town it's in the best interest to always lay out your scum suspects.
Now with NS at L-2 I am pretty sure his lynch will occur, as there is no reason for it not to and if I'm around tomorrow that comment is a note to myself for a reminder of something I want to keep an eye on.

[farside22]

How about this. Who is everyone's number one and number two?

Jb and NS are my top 2 scum suspects

[farside22]

NS, Rikenslope, Dr. Cyanide, SK, jb

Everyone's thoughts on the above five would be appreciated.

NS - follower scum
Riken - under the radar. So far out of all the votes on NS I dislike his the most
Dr. Cy - Needs to be replaced
SK - uncertain
Jb - scum, oh so scummy of scum.

[farside22]

How about this. Who is everyone's number one and number two?

Nobody Special in the 1st place. For the 2nd place, I wanna see how who replaces SaintKerrigan will act first.

You've got to have a number two suspect wishwash.

Expecting more from WRP is like asking for Bill Gates to make a computer that doesn't crash.

[farside22]

The wishwash part does not bug me as much as the lack of vote part does.

1) NS
2) Riken/SK

What happened with Jb? Did he move down the list for you and is Riken going to be based on NS flip?

[farside22]

Riken
I can see the encouragement. i would say him doing nothing to stop it and just making comments throughout the argument is bleh.
This post where he list the top 3

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#2154205

There is no note about NS but he votes for NS based on what others have been saying even thought Ythan is scum in his view he's following his logic
huh?

So yeah consider Riken part of my top 3 scum suspects

[farside22]

Mod: Please prod Dr. Cyanide

I feel you may have to look for a replacement as I currently am looking one for him in another game.

[farside22]

Back on day 1 when farside was cool

I'm voting now for NS

unvote:
vote:Nobody Special

buddying, following, and oh I thought I had something bs, bs, bs.
Plus he FOS'ed someone he says he trust. Give me a break. Pure scum.

Kids stop squabbling and vote for NS. Thanks.

Just so you know unsight this was my main feeling day 1 during the squabble of horror/ythan. Scum typically like to throw their vote in, not voice much else and disappear on site.

[farside22]

He still hasn't claimed has he? He dodged it last time.

Yes he thought someone who wasn't voting him should ask him to claim.
However since he is at L-1 he should claim.

[farside22]

Just so you know unsight this was my main feeling day 1 during the squabble of horror/ythan. Scum typically like to throw their vote in, not voice much else and disappear on site.

Why are you telling me this?

Because I noticed on your read you didn't seem to see anything about his general play day 1 and your still wanting to push a bit on SK.

[farside22]

And as for the rest of that... I'm not trying to post fluff, and I disagree that I've been amazed by people finding "discovering scummy behavior," I've been amazed by people calling things scummy which actually aren't.

Yeah just like when I called crypto on his slip of not knowing what a town win condition.

[farside22]

Jb: I'm refering you to your actions after the slip from crypto

jbernier93: If you see what I'm talking about and you see it's over his head why are you voting horror?

Because, IMO, Horror is scummier.

You never called it scummy so I'm pretty much calling on you as not thinking anything "small" can't be looked at possible scum.

[farside22]

Good morning all! (Today is being better than yesterday.)

Claimtime!

I am Town.

I will have actual, real Content(tm) in the next two hours.

Oh sure I feel like being the silly one.

NS can you please paraphrase your win condition from your PM.

[farside22]

Good morning all! (Today is being better than yesterday.)

Claimtime!

I am Town.

I will have actual, real Content(tm) in the next two hours.

Oh sure I feel like being the silly one.

NS can you please paraphrase your win condition from your PM.

Please, tell me why, exactly, you hate me.

We've already been through a huge, non-productive back-and-forth over a paraphrase of win condition.

Why? Seriously, there are so many ways to paraphrase, and I can't direct-quote for fear of being modkilled. You're putting me between a rock and a hard place. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

This is an anti-town request, IMHO.

We have, as in you and me? Really I would love to see where that is as I just read you in isolation and you don't mention anything about the paraphrase on day 1 that crypto misinterperted.
This tells me (1) you are reading bits and pieces of the game (2) probably scum since you can and will now go looking for that paraphrase I used.

[farside22]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
NS is reading the game and didn't answer ythan's question and keeps ignoring the fact that he's calling ythan scum but following his theories.
Awesome!
lynch please

[farside22]

Top 4 suspects:

NS, Ythan, SK, Jb
.

Ythan your being a putz

He stated to move the players up and they are in the place 1st - 4th

So his top top is you and SK.

[farside22]

I pointed out that his suspicion of me is out of the blue. That it was out of the blue before and despite his protests it's still out of the blue in light of no explanation. I don't know if he knows that I can read posts in iso but.

You mean this one here

[farside22]

And that's what he's basing his number one suspicion off of. Are you trying to get a point across or?

No I don't find it valid at all. Why do you think he's on my scum list?

[farside22]

@ythan: reading the night scenes for the 2 nights I can't understand why you would think there was a third kill. I just reads as flavor to me.
@unsight: Why do you think discussing the storyline the mod made is scummy.

vote: jbernier93

[farside22]

Sorry it's not unsight. Konowa why did you have issue with ythan discussing the storyline, why is that scummy?

[farside22]

Doctor shot by sniper, sniper shoots knocker, sniper drinks poison. I count three. I didn't say I thought there was a third kill, I said it was odd.

I read it as sniper shot doc. Sniper has a visit and panics.
Since the sniper in the story reads as the one dead and the one that shot the doctor and as far as I ever heard mafia doesn't get 2 kills in one night.
I say it's just flavor.

[farside22]

1557 (just noting the post I'm on)

Ythan, really?

I'm not talking about the lynches. I'm talking about the NK.

That's just nonsense.

ythan your vote on riken is OMGUS. I don't care for you lack of explanation to his question and just attack him for questioning you.
You want answers you should give answers.

[farside22]

ythan

I think

your vote on riken is OMGUS.

There. Picking up context is tech.

Are you always a jerk?

[farside22]

Sorry, I'm in an unpleasant mood today. Now to tackle that long one.

So am I so probably not the best place to be.
I do want to know why you think DS is scum as this is the second day you placed a vote on him and it's not clear to me why you think he's scum.


I'm going to go back and do some reading. I do find it interesting that lowell's biggest suspects (except riken) have been the most vocal.

[farside22]

I'm going to go back and do some reading. I do find it interesting that lowell's biggest suspects (except riken) have been the most vocal.

Interesting. Do you mean the most vocal generally or most vocal regarding him?

The most vocal. I haven't said anything since day 1 but to call him typically anti-town.

[farside22]

gut check reading cryto one more time

fos: lowell

This is your iso post 84. If you fleshed this out I missed it, can I get a little detail?

I don't remember I think I would have to read crypto again to remember why I fos'ed lowell.

I'm trying to find desire to do so. I'm still in a fowl mood today.

[farside22]

Crypto's defense of Beater/attack on Dude based on the "I win with the town" comment is so incredibly ridiculous.

This is a good point. I remember crypto taking stance against horror on this and calling crypto out for his misinterpt of the win condition.

[farside22]

Sorry farside. At the very least I've lightened up and don't expect to be a dick in the near future. Cheer up soon.

I'm trying.
Kon post 1635 is a great point and question to jb. Who should be answering why he found dr.cy town.

[farside22]

Read crypto again in iso and dr.cy

Dr. Didn't give me much. He was lazy, lurking and just posting scum.

Crypto on the other hand leads me to believe musher is town. Things musher said to crypto and crypto's reason.

That was a pretty good text wall by Lowell. (Then again, the last time I said that he flipped scum.) He makes some good points, even if I don't agree with them all. I know from experience what he means about Beater (as for this instance, I'm not yet sure what to make of it, though I'm significantly less interested in Beater than I was before), and his willingness to say that sort of thing strikes me as pro-town.

I think this post made me think lowell scum. He doesn't why why the thinks it's good.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? He claimed VT, with what looks like role PM paraphrasing.

This makes me think crypto knew WRP was telling the truth even though the paraphrasing was wrong.

[farside22]

You think

crypto

was defending

WRP_Beater[/url] that hard and with that evidence?

I do think that. I'm entitled to an oppinion that doesn't always agree with you.
Oh wait only you can disagree?

*sorry I'm snarky

Riken's vote on WRP confirms him as the worst voter and reasoning for a second day in a row.

unvote:
vote: riken

[farside22]

No worries, was just looking for clarification.

I see scum bus more then defend and reading crypto and his WRP claimed VT it feels/reads to me like he knew it to be true.

What is your thoughts on Riken?

[farside22]

@Farside: That is my post from day 2 I haven't made a vote on anyone but Ythan today.

So I don't get to be the worse voter for 2 days when that is from the same day.

Oh so day 1 and day 2 were horrible votes for bad reasoning.
Why are you voting for ythan exactly?

[farside22]

I'm reading everyone in isolation now.

you have been warned.

[farside22]

I need to get going. I'm going to put the notes I have now and finish later.

MoleStargazer - I like how mole calls out crypto in his big post but I don't know if I agree with the reasoning. I really don't like mole's vote on horror at the ends. Just a meh whatever vote. I do have to say I really like how he looks at those who voted for horror, their reasoning and it's part of my feel on jbernier in there. His vote on NS slips him back to mmmm statist.
Mole has moments that make me cheer and then his vote at the end makes me not so thrilled with his play. He hasn't said anything today on who he finds scum so he's someone I just need to watch.

WRP_Beater - VI (aka the easy lynch for scum) he'll be around giving nothing to the game.

Kison replacing ace5993 - ace gives nothing but lurkerish tell. Why did you think musher's contribution is terrible?
Why is lowell lurking/catching up comments fos worthy but ray is voted on?
After reading kison's catch up post I noted he never said who he thought is scummy. His vote on WRp basically what really?
I get scummy vibes from kison. He's going for the lazy or the VI. I just don't see anything he post coming from someone who is town.
His vote from ray (lurker) to WRP (VI) is just scummy. He has no real scum hunting reason's and this is mostly a scum tell for me when someone keeps themselves from telling too much of who they find scum so they can't backtrack later.

[farside22]

i have to ask why you don't consider wrp scum in any of this, you seem to be certain he's town, for no apparent reason other than the fact he's a VI.

It's how I read him. Everything he has done has been wow really dumb. I don't see scummy I see nothing useful. His lynch is being pushed because he is doing nothing to defend himself.

[farside22]

At the time his posts seemed fairly town, IMO. Obviously this was a rather incorrect read.

Can you clue us in on some factors that contributed to this read?

I would if there were any specific ones I could point to... sorry, I didn't really develop much of a read on him.

Gee I wonder why this guy has been screaming scum to me.

[farside22]

@kison: Who is scum to you and why?

[farside22]

Surely you remember which posts you considered good.

Honestly, there were never any specific posts.

Excuse me?

Dr. Cyanide - seems pretty pro-town, has made some good posts

This is posts (plural) not a post many post. You said he seems pro-town and now it's well I can't remember?

God I wish I had two votes right now. Actually Riken can wait

unvote:
vote: jbernier

[farside22]

Beater. That doesn't make anything you do any less scummy. You're not defending yourself

at all

except by saying that you're not good at avoiding suspicion. And you're not answering questions. I say lynch Beater today and consider jb tomorrow, at least jb does something.

Why? Why is WRP scum to you?

[farside22]

I would rather lynch jb and let the vig(?) take out Beater.

this ^

meta beater any time and he is basically CSL. Anti-town, uninformative and non-helpful.

Also Crypto pushed for his lynch at first then acted like what WRP was gospel. I think it was possible that Crypto knew WRP to tell the truth.

Also Why would Dr.Cy try and bus one scum partner but make another look good that is clearly anti-town?
Sure WIFOM but his attacks on Crypto were terrible.

[farside22]

There is a debate whether poisner is considered normal or not.

[farside22]

That's the theory. And what's this about no multiple mafia factions? Are they typically indicated as distinct upon flip?

yes.
Not sure about the poison thing. I'm sticking by the poisning of the mafia member as a flavor from the mod right now.

I still need to finish my analysist of everyone.
*sigh*

[farside22]

DedicatedScribe

- What changed your view about this:

Horrordude seems townie to me because he is a noob, and noobs tend to be more emotional. His second post thus makes me come to the aforementioned conclusion.

Curiousity makes me ask this. Musher was the only person early on to do a PbPa. Why did you attack him instead of asking others their views?
DS: fos on horror is comical comment considering crypto's flip. I'm not sure why he says it's an attempt to set up a mislynch.
Dedicated vote on beater and reasoning is terrible. It's basically he is picking X player over Y player and not going further beyond that.

unvote; vote WRP_Beater

I don't know why I'd rather vote Beater. Mainly because I feel the attack on him is more easy to understand, and the one on Richard could be sensationalized. I don't have enough time to look on that, so I'll go with the simpler choice.

What has changed your view on beater?

really?

I am NOT going to be like NS and vote horror just because I'm exasperated.

vote NS

No not really

Dude is an opportunistic idiot attempting to ride someone else's flimsy coattails and wagon me. Seriously he even admitted to lurking. Can we just lynch this awful guy already.

DS is not an idiot but simply does not understand that asking the same person the same question over and over again is going to reach a point where that person doesn't give a fuck what you think anymore.

I will not ask the same question over and over again, if you'd pay attention, unless you have yet to answer it.

Want me to repeat the ones you havent answered yet?

Getting bored with this. If you want, say no to the above, and I'll see how long it takes to get an answer from someone else.

Oh, and

vote horror

Werent you supposed to be doing something?

My biggest issue with DS is that he hasn't done anything but follow others idea's and vote as they vote. He hasn't made a point that someone else didn't point out and his flip on horror is completely hypocritical. He doesn't look beyond what everyone else pointed out as scum or made views beyond the narrow scope.

[farside22]

I would rather lynch jb and let the vig(?) take out Beater.

this ^

meta beater any time and he is basically CSL. Anti-town, uninformative and non-helpful.

Is it standard practice on mafiascum.net to ignore the people who seem obviously scummy and hope a vigilante kills them?

You both come off talking about this in a "matter of fact" sort of way and it's very bizarre to me.

If there is a vig in the game then what's the issue?
Why is WRP scummy to you?
Do you know WRP is a scum's wet dream of an easy lynch? I'm sorry for being crude but if WRP is town he's the easiest person to make a case on for his anti-town behavoir. He's also if scum an easy way for scum to buss and looks oh so shiney. I suspect he's a VI.

[farside22]

He heads out into the cold night and makes his way to an abandoned warehouse down by the wharves on Lake Michigan. Inside, he calls out: "You out there, boss?" Suddenly, a searing pain shoots through his stomach as a burst of light and a loud gunshot echoes through the building. As he lies on the ground bleeding, he sees a figure walking towards him. "You're not the boss....", the bleeding man says. The figure kicks him in the head and walks out the door, leaving him there to die.

How is this odd?
now it's possible the killings are a SK. I have to say the Dr.Cy is an odd kill target. He was most likely going to be replaced and said next to nothing but had suspicion on him.

[farside22]

I would rather lynch jb and let the vig(?) take out Beater.

well that assumes we have a vig and not an SK. why not do it the other way around anyway, is there a difference between lynching and letting an hypo vig take care of him?

Why is WRP scum?
I'm going to ask this of every person pushing the WRP lynch. I already stated that reading his meta you will find his behavoir normal and right now I see this is more a policy lynch then scum hunting.

[farside22]

I would rather lynch jb and let the vig(?) take out Beater.

this ^

why do you want him vigged when you're not convinced he's scum?

Because he's a distraction to the town and anti-town. I have vigged a few players that hurt the town in my time. Not because I believed they were scum but because their play hurt the town.

[farside22]

All I really found was this stated today from Riddick

lol?

Lol! (If that's your language)

My 'lol?' was in disbelief at what you said. Yes lynching a VT is of course bad. but I thought it was pretty clear by the fact I was voting you that I don't believe your claim and think you're lying scum. You've done NO scumhunting from memory and only pop up when called out. SO yeah, please feel free to keep claiming vanilla.

This is called actively lurkering and a scum tell. How about a fleshed out case on WRP.

[farside22]

RFWM and Nobody Special hit the 72 hour mark at 4 PM EST. They will be sent prods then.

WRP_Beater has requested replacement.

I know I'm tired and all but didn't NS get lynched yesterday?

[farside22]

All I really found was this stated today from Riddick

lol?

Lol! (If that's your language)

My 'lol?' was in disbelief at what you said. Yes lynching a VT is of course bad. but I thought it was pretty clear by the fact I was voting you that I don't believe your claim and think you're lying scum. You've done NO scumhunting from memory and only pop up when called out. SO yeah, please feel free to keep claiming vanilla.

This is called actively lurkering and a scum tell. How about a fleshed out case on WRP.

He's done NOTHING else but active lurk throughout the whole game.

I haven't seen him in a game as scum thus far. So far he has done this action in all games I have seen him in and he was town.

[farside22]

Have you ever seen him replace out of a game? I'm thinking it was probably due to pressure here, but I'm not sure if it's a scum tell or not.

yes I have. The game is ongoing and I can't discuss further then that.

[farside22]

If there is a vig in the game then what's the issue?

Do we have a vigilante in the game?

Why is WRP scummy to you?
Do you know WRP is a scum's wet dream of an easy lynch? I'm sorry for being crude but if WRP is town he's the easiest person to make a case on for his anti-town behavoir. He's also if scum an easy way for scum to buss and looks oh so shiney. I suspect he's a VI.

I'm not sure what your goal is here. You ask why he's scummy and then immediately go on to talk about how his anti-town behavior makes him lynch-worthy. My reasons are in the post where I voted for him.

You keep saying VI which according to the wiki means Village Idiot (what I thought). When you keep saying that, are you talking about it as just a playing style or is that a role too (I just googled it to make sure and it popped up with wikipedia and Jester)?

Idk if we have a vig. I'm going with the assumption that the second kill is coming from a vig. It could be a sk

Also no I'm saying he's worthy of a vig kill not a lynch. You want to lynch him I'm not joining the wagon because as I said meta him and you will see he plays poorly always.

[farside22]

The fact that he's always a bad player doesn't make him less scummy. Do you want a scummy VI sticking around for much longer?

How many scum do you think are in this game? Just off hand your theory?

Now that you have that number do you think it's best to 1) find someone you believe is scum and have them lynched or (2) lynch a player that is typically anti-town?

Thanks to a killer (vig/sk) in the game we are down two mafia. I figure statistically speaking a 20 player game has 4 to 5 mafia in their group.
If there is a 4 player mafia group then I would say pushing a mislynch is more probable.

[farside22]

4 seems right with the SK but I don't know balance very well. We've gone two day/night cycles with two dead scum, I think it's perfectly reasonable to lynch Beater even if you're not sure if he's more anti-town or scummy.

Beater is being replaced so what's the point now of pushing that lynch?

[farside22]

jbernier93: Why did you vote for horror for weak reason? Why blame ythan for his hard push when there were others (you, ace, lowell) that said next to nothing but still voted for horror.

Was this ever answered to anyone's satisfaction?

Also farside points out clear jb backpedaling in her iso 82. Her 116 is also full of juicy anti-jb goodies. This is my favorite case from another player at the moment, even if it doesn't concur with my tippy top suspect.

It's why I haven't changed my vote and I will not be changing my vote anytime soon.
Also as I said blaming someone for pushing hard when jb was voting horror and said nothing during the time is scummy as well.

[farside22]

@mole: I had my views here about DS. I haven't read everything everyone said in the past few pages and a few things I need to reread. I took the day off of work and chose to sleep and relax today so don't expect much from me today.

[farside22]

I have to wonder if lowell got to the part where I caught crypto's slip misinterpreting the town role PM that WRP as the win condition why he still suspects me.

Lowell care to answer that?

[farside22]

Jb: if you recognized that what I was saying was over crypto's head how did knowing that make horror scummier? Especially seeing crypto was the one pushing that wagon the hardest.

[farside22]

OH IT WAS LOWELL. Go figure. Farside OMGUS him with me plz.

He gave me an fos twice in his reads. One for commenting about his anti-town nature and the other was more gut i believe. (will look later to confirm this)

I'm waiting for some answers for both lowell and jb. Something about jb keeps singing at me.

[farside22]

jbernier93 please answer the question below.

Jb: if you recognized that what I was saying was over crypto's head how did knowing that make horror scummier? Especially seeing crypto was the one pushing that wagon the hardest.

[farside22]

I have to wonder if lowell got to the part where I caught crypto's slip misinterpreting the town role PM that WRP as the win condition why he still suspects me.

Lowell care to answer that?

Uh, what? Rephrase, perhaps?

Did you get past day 1 on your read? Did you read the part where I voted for crypto for interpreting what WRP as a paraphrase?
If so why do you still suspect me?

[farside22]

Is that a scumtell? If so, how?
[...]
Is that a scumtell? If so, how?

I need a new even scummier color for your name.

voting w/o reasons isn't a scum tell (obv it depends on context but it's certainly not a scum tell by itself.)

Why are you defending Ray?