Mafia 110: Mafia in Hell, Michigan (Tied.)

[horrordude0215]

Major FoS: Richard

You based your vote based on the fact that I used the " " smiley? Really?

[horrordude0215]

Re: Horror's Case

Iso. 5: A joke vote during RVS is not something you righteously "let . . . pass." It is, after all, a joke vote during RVS.
Iso. 13: Why? Gut reads are scummy? Congratulations! You've just condemned every player on this site who plays by any degree of gut at all whatsoever—which is nearly every person on the site.
Iso. 21: Yes, and your problem is . . . ? Why are you only opposed to wagons when they (attempt to) land on you?
Iso. 22:
Iso. 30: Voting without reason is not a scum tell. Nice try.
Iso. 31: I assume you are calling me a hypocrite—by implication, at least, because you apparently don't have the nerve to make the case outright. Huh. So I'm not allowed to ask someone why they did something, just because I did the same thing? You're not a big fan of scum hunting, are you?
Iso. 41: If you say so.
Iso. 46: Why do you like the move? What does your liking this specific move have to do with my alignment? Why do you think I just did it for the wagon? Was my reason not good enough? Why is doing it for the wagon a scum tell (in this situation)?
Iso. 49: That was a facetious FOS, and it was explained. Do your homework.
Iso. 57: I didn't wagon mindlessly like he did. I also didn't focus solely on players being wagoned, as you

just

proved by castigating me for voting for you: I was the only one who took that much interest in your scumminess.
Iso. 61: You don't think I have reasons?
Iso. 75: Why is it a dumbass reason?

Speaking of cases, reasons, and bandwagons, what the hell have you been doing all game? I'm looking through your iso. and I'm not seeing much.

HYPOCRITE!!1!

Even better is that you haven't done much until

now

. Waiting till you've got a rapidly growing wagon on you to make your case and then doing it on the guy who's been pushing your lynch all along . . . well, you know where I'm going with this.

ISO 5: I wasn't trying to imply that, so don't try and make it seem that way
ISO 13: I wasn't trying to say that Gut reads are scummy... I'm just saying that I hadn't done anything do deserve that read
ISO 21: I don't mind wagons on me most of the time... I was just saying it was a bullshit thing to try and say that Ythan is suspicious of me, when I didn't see any hint of it at all previously
ISO 22: What? It was a redundatant statement... I think that Ythan had saw it and then chose to ignore it.
ISO 30: It may not be a good scum tell, but it's not a very pro-town thing to do, don't you think?
ISO 31: I was calling you a hypocrite. Why you didn't ask yourself the same question, because if you did something and then asked a question of someone who did the same thing, why shouldn't you have to answer the question? (I think that question made sense... if not tell me and I can rephrase it)
ISO 41: "Why isn't he dead yet?" Nope, that's not trying to convince people to bandwagon, is it?
ISO 46: You ask a lot of questions.
1. I like the move because I think that Richard is scummy as well, and therefore I would support a Richard Lynch.
2. It doesn't have anything to do with your alignment... I probably should have left my feelings out of it.
3. I think you did it because you were going to try and get a mislynch (or you were bussing).
4. I didn't see you really give a good reason.
5. See number 3
ISO 49. Looking back, I agree with you there. Exclude that one from the list.
ISO 57: You took an interest in my scumminess? You admitted that you didn't have any evidence to go off of!
ISO 61: You haven't really explained any good ones
ISO 75: You immediately dismiss the possibility that you are scum because, well, it's you. I'm not buying it

[Ythan]

I was the one who brought up the smiley, why not FoS me instead?

[horrordude0215]

I was the one who brought up the smiley, why not FoS me instead?

Because you're not voting me because of it. (At least I don't think that's the reason)

[horrordude0215]

EBWOP: Whereas Richard has given no other reason for voting for me other than the fact that I used that smiley.

[farside22]

Cryto: how do you see WRP as paraphrasing his win condition?

[farside22]

Screw it.

unvote:
vote: Crypto

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

[horrordude0215]

Looking back, I realize that I missed this post

Wow

Lynch me if you want, you'll just be 1 less villager away from winning. Of course, I know crypto's been out for my blood since the beginning of the game, mainly without reason, and my lack of sleep when posting that just gave him an opportunity to go in for the kill

As for my defense, I can only claim noob. I still am getting used to the site and sorry if my strategy is flawed or whatever

Unvote

until I can get a chance to reread and see if anyone is particularly scummy.

I remember when I as a town once did this. I got lynched. Ima check your meta, too.

I only have 1 completed game on here (I was doc)... I can give you the link if you want.

I don't feel like explaining myself to you anymore... It's not like it'll change your mind. I could claim cop and you'd still try and lynch me

I don't like the quip about cop claiming.

Why? I was pointing out that he is so biased about me that he wouldn't even think about not trying to lynch me.

[crypto]

ISO 30: It may not be a good scum tell, but it's not a very pro-town thing to do, don't you think?

Depending on the circumstances, it's a phenomenally pro-town thing to do. Here, it was simply an indication that I was disgusted with and suspicious of Beater's play.

ISO 31: I was calling you a hypocrite. Why you didn't ask yourself the same question, because if you did something and then asked a question of someone who did the same thing, why shouldn't you have to answer the question? (I think that question made sense... if not tell me and I can rephrase it)

I didn't ask myself the same question because (a) I already knew the answer and (b) in many situations I don't like being completely transparent about my reads.

ISO 41: "Why isn't he dead yet?" Nope, that's not trying to convince people to bandwagon, is it?

You've changed your argument. There's a gargantuan difference between "trying to rush the lynch" and "trying to convince people to bandwagon." Nice try.

1. I like the move because I think that Richard is scummy as well, and therefore I would support a Richard Lynch.

You like my move just because I agreed with you? Mere agreement is a town tell? Or is town tell not what you mean by "like the move"?

3. I think you did it because you were going to try and get a mislynch (or you were bussing).

Yes,

why

do you think that? You're arbitrarily picking that over a town motivation.

ISO 57: You took an interest in my scumminess? You admitted that you didn't have any evidence to go off of!

Lack of tangible evidence means there's no scumminess I can take interest in?

ISO 61: You haven't really explained any good ones

I don't feel the need to explain a bunch of reads when they're impertinent to the thread of conversation. Feel free to ask.

ISO 75: You immediately dismiss the possibility that you are scum because, well, it's you. I'm not buying it

Wow. This isn't rocket science. Take a long, hard look at this post and tell me my reason for FOSing Dr.Cyanide.

[crypto]

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

(condescending sigh)

I win with the town.

[jbernier93]

Back.

RayFrostWikiManager replaces RayFrost effective immediately.

lolwut.

Why are you trying to lynch a Town PR?

Honestly, why do you act like you're the freaking bee's knees? I can't help but get angry every time I read one of your posts.

But anyway, Richard's claim of watcher is believable for now I guess.

Why was any of this FOS worthy? You should be voting for your top suspect, so if he felt that farside had done something scummy how is it premature to vote for her. Saying it's too early for serious votes is pretty stupid.

And what's all this talk of premature? So when exactly can you place a serious vote on someone? 4th page? Or do we have to wait longer?

It has nothing to do with the timing but rather the reasoning. Which you yourself noted here. :/

Or we can try actually looking for scum?

BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF HE IS SCUM.

Lynching people because they are acting like a newb and hoping they are scum = dumb strategy.
Lynching people because they are acting scummy AND like a newb = better strategy.

jbernier [is] probably scum

Why?

Oh right there wasn't any night 0 O_O
Anyway Riddick, why did you daykill me without even asking once for a RC? Anyway, I am (or at least was) a VT. I win with the town. Also, I know now you can't cancel the daykill. Believe me, I'm a VT. Why would I lie when I am daykilled? You've just wasted a daykill.

unvote

He's such a newb that I think I can believe this... for now.

I totally agree with Riddick re: WRP. I don't see a reason for a person experienced with Mafia to say "Why would I lie."

Some people are newbs for longer than others... especially when most of their experience is off of the mafiascum website... frankly, this is the only website on which mafia is played correctly.

Something tells me that Riddick's daykill was a test on WRP. and needless to say, he failed miserably.

Vote: WRP_Beater

This looks like a way to obvious wagon hop.

Wow

Lynch me if you want, you'll just be 1 less villager away from winning. Of course, I know crypto's been out for my blood since the beginning of the game, mainly without reason, and my lack of sleep when posting that just gave him an opportunity to go in for the kill

As for my defense, I can only claim noob. I still am getting used to the site and sorry if my strategy is flawed or whatever

Unvote

until I can get a chance to reread and see if anyone is particularly scummy.

I've never seen an appeal to emotion this bad.

HOS:horrordude

Ohhhh...sorry guys for the half-assed posting last time and the lack of postings till now. But I have been in the hospital as my GF had a kid...So little Rikenslope Jr.

Right...

My voting in the last post was misinterpeted as I didn't didn't see Richard posting a PR...still not entirely sure if it is true or if it is BS but since then Beater has gotten more and more scummy. I am not exactly sure if it is missteps or if he really is scummy but for now I am going to have to jump on the Beater Wagon.

Unvote Vote WRP_Beater

HOS:Rikenslope

for wagon hopping w/o giving any concrete reasoning.

Well I like it. I feel it suits the game even if I'm not an SK.

Role distancing duly noted.

I'm just up for whatever the town decides, I never really feel like scumhunting on Day 1.

...You make me want to kill babies.

I would like to hear why everyone seems to think the same way you do; isn't weeding out those more concerned with saving their own asses than helping the town GOOD for said town?

Claiming at L-5 is saying your own ass.

Farside, I love you.

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

(condescending sigh)

I win with the town.

Obviously farside's whole argument against you just went over your head.

Anyway

vote: horrordude

.

[crypto]

Obviously farside's whole argument against you just went over your head.

(embarrassed sigh) Want to explain for me?

[farside22]

I'm offically capatilizing on a slip from someone who stated that WRP was paraphrasing a town PM when in fact there was nothing close to that being the town win condition and Crypto didn't recognize it means scum.

(condescending sigh)

I win with the town.

How is that paraphrasing a the town PM? You can keep avoiding the question but I'm quiet happy with my vote.
jbernier93: If you see what I'm talking about and you see it's over his head why are you voting horror?

[horrordude0215]

ISO 30: It may not be a good scum tell, but it's not a very pro-town thing to do, don't you think?

Depending on the circumstances, it's a phenomenally pro-town thing to do. Here, it was simply an indication that I was disgusted with and suspicious of Beater's play.

Why didn't you say that in the post then?

I didn't ask myself the same question because (a) I already knew the answer and (b) in many situations I don't like being completely transparent about my reads.

Well now I'm asking you the question. Care to answer?

You've changed your argument. There's a gargantuan difference between "trying to rush the lynch" and "trying to convince people to bandwagon." Nice try.

"Bandwagon with me so we can lynch him faster"... seems like pretty much the same thing.

You like my move just because I agreed with you? Mere agreement is a town tell? Or is town tell not what you mean by "like the move"?

I like the move because I would support a Richard lynch, that's all.

Yes,

why

do you think that? You're arbitrarily picking that over a town motivation.

Because you're scummy as hell and I think that you were doing it for the wagon.

Lack of tangible evidence means there's no scumminess I can take interest in?

You haven't given me anything that I've done as scummy that I haven't already explained!

I don't feel the need to explain a bunch of reads when they're impertinent to the thread of conversation. Feel free to ask.

Asking now, thanks

Wow. This isn't rocket science. Take a long, hard look at this post and tell me my reason for FOSing Dr.Cyanide.

I don't buy it... Just because you don't think his argument wasn't good enough doesn't mean that you're not scum. It almost seems like an OMGUS to me

[jbernier93]

jbernier93: If you see what I'm talking about and you see it's over his head why are you voting horror?

Because, IMO, Horror is scummier.

[SaintKerrigan]

Since no one bothered to do this last time, I'll ask again:

Would someone recap the case on Horror for me?

[crypto]

How is that paraphrasing a the town PM? You can keep avoiding the question but I'm quiet happy with my vote.

I've been avoiding the question? I don't know how to explain it any further.

It looks like town role PM paraphrasing.

I cannot fucking recall ever receiving a town PM that does not state, "You win with the town," or "You win when all anti-town forces/roles/players/whatever are eliminated," or "The town wins when all anti-town forces are eliminated," or something like that.

Why didn't you say that in the post then?

Because I was unaware that you wouldn't see the implication . . .

Well now I'm asking you the question. Care to answer?

I unvoted you because at the time I found Beater scummier, for reasons I just outlined.

"Bandwagon with me so we can lynch him faster"... seems like pretty much the same thing.

That is complete bullshit. Bandwagon, per se, in no way implies a speedy lynch. Especially not on day one. Sorry.

Because you're scummy as hell and I think that you were doing it for the wagon.

So you think that was a scum move because you already have a scum read on me, which is based on a bullshit case. Confirmation bias is bad enough; confirmation bias backed by a bullshit case is far worse.

You haven't given me anything that I've done as scummy that I haven't already explained!

What does that have to do with anything? If I have a gut read on you, then I certainly haven't asked any questions about that gut read, so you couldn't possibly have explained.

We can argue all day about whether your scummy-looking posts like the one about Riddick's day kill test were scummy, but there's not really any solid logic for either of us to use. Your use of lack of sleep as an excuse isn't going to change my mind, and I certainly won't change your mind by refuting that excuse.

Asking now, thanks

Sorry, no. I have neither the time nor the energy to belt out a player-by-player analysis text wall, and it's incredibly irrelevant. I also maintain that my reads, reasoned and unreasoned alike, are infinitely better than your lack of.

I don't buy it... Just because you don't think his argument wasn't good enough doesn't mean that you're not scum. It almost seems like an OMGUS to me

Wow. You are so full of it. "Shallow, lazy, [and] half hashed" all apply to faux scum hunting; faux scum hunting obviously applies to noncommittal scum.

[crypto]

And I meant to add that "lacking in conviction" applies to scum who don't want to step too hard on other players' toes.

[Riddick]

It has nothing to do with the timing but rather the reasoning. Which you yourself noted here. :/

HMMMM....then what about the quote below?

However, I don't like that farside is avoiding the PR question... while it may not give us much to go on, anything is useful at this point.

Unvote and vote farside22

WOW that's kinda premature in my opinion. Actually very very premature.

fos:horrordude

^^ Looks timing related to me..unless you think it's too..premature for..bas reasoning, lolwat explain plz.

Lynching people because they are acting like a newb and hoping they are scum = dumb strategy.
Lynching people because they are acting scummy AND like a newb = better strategy.

This is true and correct but you didn't seem to consider him as scum, you said we could try looking for scum, I mean he could be newby and omygosh scummy too! Obviously the fact people were suspicious of him would mean this might be the case. Hmm

Scum read is a gut read, but yeah.

[Riddick]

Okay, what vibes from me are scummy?

Smiley in this posts reads to me as attempt to reduce the impact of the case indirectly.

^^ I'm a fan of this tell actually.

I don't see townies less likely to do this.

I've used it before, and have seen it used successfully I'm pretty sure. It could be one of those things that scum might be more likely to theoretically do but maybe not do in practise. I'm not sure, I remember Ooba catching scum in .GIF mafia with it before although the details are fuzzy. You could be right though.

On other things I don't find the role pm thing too interesting, I'm wary of any sort of slips on role pm wordings and things like that. I don't remember ever seeing scum caught with it before, tbh.

Farside why do you think Crypto scum would make that post if he's not town? And tbf Crypto's matching my meta of him atm, so I think he's town for that reason.

[farside22]

Farside why do you think Crypto scum would make that post if he's not town? And tbf Crypto's matching my meta of him atm, so I think he's town for that reason.

I don't see a town person saying that what WRP stated is a paraphrasing of a PM. Do you see it as a paraphrasing?

[pman5595]

Since no one bothered to do this last time, I'll ask again:

Would someone recap the case on Horror for me?

I don't remember what he actually first did, but when asked about it, he noobclaimed, appealed to emotion, tried to dismiss his case, and tried to put more suspicion on someone else. He is acting exactly like a newb scum would act (and how I acted as newb scum TWICE previously, and had it dismissed as just noobiness)

[jbernier93]

It has nothing to do with the timing but rather the reasoning. Which you yourself noted here. :/

HMMMM....then what about the quote below?

However, I don't like that farside is avoiding the PR question... while it may not give us much to go on, anything is useful at this point.

Unvote and vote farside22

WOW that's kinda premature in my opinion. Actually very very premature.

fos:horrordude

^^ Looks timing related to me..unless you think it's too..premature for..bas reasoning, lolwat explain plz.

He voted farside in a serious manner for one thing that was only vaguely scummy, if at all. That's what I meant by premature.

Lynching people because they are acting like a newb and hoping they are scum = dumb strategy.
Lynching people because they are acting scummy AND like a newb = better strategy.

This is true and correct but you didn't seem to consider him as scum, you said we could try looking for scum, I mean he could be newby and omygosh scummy too! Obviously the fact people were suspicious of him would mean this might be the case. Hmm

Scum read is a gut read, but yeah.

Yes, but at the time of my initial posts regarding him, I did not find him to be scummy. The quote I was responding to essentially said that we should lynch him b/c he is a stupid noob, saying it would "set him straight." I disagreed.

I dislike that you find me to be scum yet refuse to provide evidence of scummy things I have done. Unless you count the only things you've reacted to regarding me to be scummy, in which case I'm thoroughly confused, as I don't see how they are scummy.

[Netopalis]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

ace5993

- 1 - SaintKerrigan - (L-10)

Crypto

- 2 - horrordude0215, Farside22 - (L-9)

DedicatedScribe

- 1 - Cirno - (L-10)

horrordude0215

- 9 - pman5595, Ythan, Crypto, Lowell, Nobody Special, ace5993, MoleStargazer, RichardGHP, JBernier93 - (L-2)

Rikenslope

- 1 - RayFrostWikiManager - (L-10)

WRP_Beater

- 2 - Riddick, Rikenslope - (L-9)

Players not voting: DedicatedScribe, Dr. Cyanide, Musher333, WRP_Beater

[horrordude0215]

I don't remember what he actually first did, but when asked about it, he noobclaimed

I'm a noob, I think I'm liable to make mistakes.

Appealed to emotion

I was having one of the shittiest days of my life at the time, and I didn't care whether or not the town lynched me.

Tried to dismiss his case

Aren't I supposed to do that? Or is it better to go "You're right about all of that, but I'm not scum, just trust me"?

Tried to put more suspicion on someone else.

Again, am I not supposed to do that? Even if I did say that I wasn't scum and offered good evidence for it, what good would it be if I didn't list someone that I suspected?