Mafia 110: Mafia in Hell, Michigan (Tied.)

[WRP_Beater]

Ok then.

WRP_Beater, is that all you've got to offer?

That was to not be prodded.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why are you posting merely to avoid a prod, WRP? Why not make an effort to offer content?

[farside22]

WRP makes me wish for a vig. I just read it all as VI and non helpful.

[SaintKerrigan]

WRP makes me wish for a vig. I just read it all as VI and non helpful.

Huh?

Unvote: WRP_Beater. Vote: Farside22.

You're an SK.

[molestargazer]

Right, I need a case rather than just coming in occasionally and making a half-arsed comment.
So, I think a good place to start would be horrordude's final wagon.

horrordude0215 - 9 - pman5595, Ythan, Crypto, Lowell, ace5993, MoleStargazer, JBernier93, Nobody Special, DedicatedScribe, horrordude0215, RichardGHP - (LYNCHED)

Obviously we need to discount a few people:
- Myself. I'm fairly sure about my alignment.
- Horrordude - Dead (Town)
- RichrdGHP - Dead (Town PR, although he never had a chance to use it)
- Crypto - Dead (Scum)

Which leaves us with 7 potentials:
pman5595, Ythan, Lowell, ace5993 (Now Kison), Jbernier93, Nobody Special, DedicatedScribe.

ace5993 / Kison

Made a grand total of 4 posts before he was replaced, 3/4 of which include some sort of apology for not posting more. There's really very little I can analyse here.
His vote for horrordude consisted of the following:

For now, Vote: horrordude0215 needs to die.

Mmhm. Seems to be a clear bandwagon vote. But looking at possible motives, it could just as likely be an 'Oh, shit, I'd better post content' than an 'Oh, I could just bump him off and lurk out the day'.
Kison I can't see anything wrong with. So let's move on.

SCUM RATING: Mild to Moderate.

pman5595

Voted horrordude quite early on. Admittedly, so did Crypto - but it doesn't exactly stink of wagon-hopping. The vote was based partly on his own prior meta about noob-scum, but I can't really blame him for doing so.
I find his 'ownership of the wagon' comments (ISO 15 & 16) a little strange. I can honestly see no scum motive for that. He's probably made more posts with content than I have.

SCUM RATING: Pretty low.

Ythan

Jesus, 302 posts?! I'll be damned if I'm reading every single one, even if they are mostly one line. From what I've seem of Ythan, he finds a case and pushes. Hard. Sometimes I think it goes over the line, but I don't think it's particularly scummy.
His arguing is perhaps anti-town, I did get a bit pissed off with it, and yes, there's a fine line - but I don't think it's meant to harm our efforts.
This can be one I can come back to if necessary and do a proper read.

SCUM RATING: Mild to Moderate.

Lowell

Aw, I'm dreading this one. Despite some less-than-useful posts, there are still little chunks of gold in there, such as ISO3. Whilst it looks messy, there's some good analysis in there. ISO6 also makes a good point about scum amongst inactives (and it certainly makes me look at my scumrating for ace).
All in all, typical Lowell, but I like what happens when a useful post is made.

SCUM RATING: Mild.

Jbernier93

Puts pressure on horror early for a 'premature' vote. He doesn't follow on with a vote for a while afterwards, so I can hardly take it as starting a wagon - and I can see where he's coming from.
This from ISO 10 raised an eyebrow:

Well, if Ythan's post were really "something sily & of no consequence which lacks sense and/or significance," then you wouldn't bother to go look up which players correspond to the numbers he was looking to.

Surely someone attacking you warrants a response regardless of how apparantly silly it is? Do you not think that a response in that case would be in fact necessary in that pointless attacks could be a scumtell?
Defends WRP on a principle I agree with in that I don't think his newbiness = scummy. (See ISO 10-14)
Then there's a bit of a quick turn in ISO 19 (in a matter of a day or so), to a vote because 'his actions don't make sense' - surely this is exactly the reason you were defending him earlier, whether he's admitted to playing before or not?
Oh. Another unvote in ISO 24, because "he's such a newb", before heading over to Horror - at the time when the horror wagon was really picking up some momentum, and we were heading towards a lynch.

SCUM RATING: Moderate to Heavy
For the wagon hopping regarding WRP, and the jump onto Horror near the end.

Nobody Special

Decides to vote for horror because he's "sick of the bickering" ISO 21.
I don't like his '7-minute gap' suspicion.
Either I'm getting lazier as the night goes on, or he really is nobody special.

SCUM RATING: Moderate-ish, for the reasons above.

Dedicated Scribe

In my first big analysis post, I labelled this guy as being pretty town.
I don't understand this (ISO 8)

In actuality, it isn't timely or convenient, as he's getting votes right now O.o

His join date kinda removes this point, however. Ill also FoS WRP_ Beater.

Could you please exlpain? Seems like a little fence-sitting.

Richard and Mr. Beater are on my more realistic hitlist for today. Shall we?

unvote; vote WRP_Beater

I don't know why I'd rather vote Beater. Mainly because I feel the attack on him is more easy to understand, and the one on Richard could be sensationalized. I don't have enough time to look on that, so I'll go with the simpler choice.

This bit also rubs me the wrong way. It sounds like he just doesn't want to put the effort in to push a case he likes, but instead goes for an easy and 'simple' one. Surely that isn't how you catch scum?

A test? I think it makes WRP seem more nooby. If he's scum, why does he continue to rely on this noob facet?

Thinking on this, I'll unvote WRP_Beater at this point.

Don't call me contradictory.

Uh... well, um...
*Awkward pause*
Let's call it coming round to sense in a way that you, uh, wouldn't have been a particular fan of earlier?

In ISO 17, Scribe seems to defend horror quite a lot, and later votes. I can't really blame him, and I can't really work out if this is a scumtell or not.

I spend 3 posts explaining my reasoning for horror-vote, and you are still disturbed?

Could you please point me to these? To ease my laziness? I have been writing this post for around an hour now. Have pity. Please. You know you want to. It might help. Like, lots.

SCUM RATING: Moderate-Ish.


From this,

Vote: Jbernier13

Please explain what I've pointed out. Or you could just die and flip scum and make me happy. S'up to you.

[Konowa]

Actually, you know what?

unvote;

vote jbernier93

I like this vote better.

---

This looks like a way to obvious wagon hop.

---

I've never seen an appeal to emotion this bad.

HOS:horrordude

---

Obviously farside's whole argument against you just went over your head.

Anyway

vote: horrordude.

You obviously agreed with what farside was saying. If this was truly the case then one would think that you would be all over farside. Instead you vote horrordude saying that he was scummier for various things ["his AtEs, various posts, wishywashiness"].

AtE - null.
various posts - ???
wishywashiness - ???

I also find your deflections [iso post 32 and 33] to be scummy.

---

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

[molestargazer]

@Konowa - Simulpost?

Unvote: WRP_Beater. Vote: Farside22.

You're an SK.

What?

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

Because she said she wished for a vig. To me, it seems like that means she knows there already isn't a vig. Since we had two kills last night, that leaves three possible options: two scumteams, vigilante, or Serial Killer. Since Crypto flipped simple Mafia Goon, that rules out two scumteams. Now that Farside said that she wished for a vig, it seems to rule out that possibility as well. Hence, a Serial Killer, and I'm betting Farside's it.

[Konowa]

@mole: Nah, I just got fast fingers

@SK: That makes no sense. I still do not see how that comment makes you think that farside is an SK. How does farside wishing for a vig = her knowing that there is not a vig = her being a SK?

[SaintKerrigan]

Excuse me, Farside? We had two kills last night. How do you know that an SK didn't make a kill?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Konowa: She would know there is no vig if she is the SK herself.

[farside22]

Oh I just assumed SK with the kill not a vig. I don't know why.
I guess it's because I didn't see anyone agreeing with me except Dr.C about crypto

[farside22]

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

Because she said she wished for a vig. To me, it seems like that means she knows there already isn't a vig. Since we had two kills last night, that leaves three possible options: two scumteams, vigilante, or Serial Killer. Since Crypto flipped simple Mafia Goon, that rules out two scumteams. Now that Farside said that she wished for a vig, it seems to rule out that possibility as well. Hence, a Serial Killer, and I'm betting Farside's it.

Why would you think I know if there is a vig?

[farside22]

Excuse me, Farside? We had two kills last night. How do you know that an SK didn't make a kill?

Now your asking me about a SK after saying I wish for a vig. Make up your mind. I didn't do a kill and my first thought is a few vigs I know do not kill night 1.

[jbernier93]

I'm in your top three for two posts I've made today? Seriously? 43 pages worth of posts, and I'm in your top three based off of those two? (Nevermind that I'm not backpedaling)

Any reason you are not attacking NS for having suspicion on 3 people based on something that happened today?

Honestly I haven't really looked at NS's posts in depth, because everytime I try to read this thread I get sidetracked and thus usually end up missing certain things.

I'm in your top three for two posts I've made today? Seriously? 43 pages worth of posts, and I'm in your top three based off of those two? (Nevermind that I'm not backpedaling)

do you not think 2 posts can significanly alter a players read? i'm not understanding your objection here at all, really.

I've never found someone extremely scummy based solely off of two posts. But I guess I get it now. :/

This from ISO 10 raised an eyebrow:

Well, if Ythan's post were really "something sily & of no consequence which lacks sense and/or significance," then you wouldn't bother to go look up which players correspond to the numbers he was looking to.

Surely someone attacking you warrants a response regardless of how apparantly silly it is? Do you not think that a response in that case would be in fact necessary in that pointless attacks could be a scumtell?

I was simply showing how GHPs statement contradicted himself.

Then there's a bit of a quick turn in ISO 19 (in a matter of a day or so), to a vote because 'his actions don't make sense' - surely this is exactly the reason you were defending him earlier, whether he's admitted to playing before or not?

His first posts seemed like he was a noob who didn't know how to play the game quite. Later posts made it seem like he was making no effort at even trying to figure out how to play.

Oh. Another unvote in ISO 24, because "he's such a newb", before heading over to Horror - at the time when the horror wagon was really picking up some momentum, and we were heading towards a lynch.

I had better fish to fry.

SCUM RATING: Moderate to Heavy
For the wagon hopping regarding WRP, and the jump onto Horror near the end.

I vote the player who is most deserving of my vote, regardless of whether or not it involves wagon hopping.

Vote: Jbernier13

93 DAMMIT!

You obviously agreed with what farside was saying. If this was truly the case then one would think that you would be all over farside. Instead you vote horrordude saying that he was scummier for various things ["his AtEs, various posts, wishywashiness"].

I'mma assume you meant crypto... and like i said before, crypto's scumminess was really just one minor thing as far as I could see. I'm not going to go back and find every single scummy thing horror did. We lynched him already.

I also find your deflections [iso post 32 and 33] to be scummy.

Expound on what you mean by "deflections"?

@SK: How does farside's comment make you jump to the conclusion that she is an SK? I do not see it.

Because she said she wished for a vig. To me, it seems like that means she knows there already isn't a vig. Since we had two kills last night, that leaves three possible options: two scumteams, vigilante, or Serial Killer. Since Crypto flipped simple Mafia Goon, that rules out two scumteams. Now that Farside said that she wished for a vig, it seems to rule out that possibility as well. Hence, a Serial Killer, and I'm betting Farside's it.

That's a bit of a stretch, IMO. But a bit notable.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why would you think I know if there is a vig?

Because you said you wished for a vig. That implies you already know there isn't one. The only way you could know that there is no vig is if you are a Serial Killer.

[Konowa]

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Even if she [farside] was the SK, how would she know if there was a vig or not?

[SaintKerrigan]

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Even if she [farside] was the SK, how would she know if there was a vig or not?

Because there were only two kills last night. One was the Mafia, and since there aren't two scumteams, the other kill had to come from either a vig or a serial killer. If Farside is the SK, then she knows there isn't a vig. Conversely, if she knows there isn't a vig, then she must be the SK.

[pman5595]

Vote: Rikenslope

I read him in ISO and noticed him not talking about horror, for the most part, when he did, he said he found him moderately scummy, but never gave reasons. I think he is scum trying to avoid being on townie wagon. Because if he was town not voting for horror he would have provided better reasoning.

[Konowa]

@SK: Still makes zero sense to me. Even if she was the SK, she does not have the knowledge that there is or is not a vig.

@jb: Your whole "two posts, but what about everyone else?" is deflecting. You are trying to push suspicion onto others without giving reason. Also, when you said that "farside's argument went over your [crypto] head" it does not read as you thinking it is minor. It reads more like scum distancing.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: Still makes zero sense to me. Even if she was the SK, she does not have the knowledge that there is or is not a vig.

There were only two kills last night. That implies that there are only two killing roles. One of them is the Mafia. If Farside is an SK, she would know by default that there is no vig by process of elimination.

[SaintKerrigan]

And has anybody noticed how Farside's suddenly gone quiet once this discussion came up?

[Unsight]

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Even if she [farside] was the SK, how would she know if there was a vig or not?

Because there were only two kills last night. One was the Mafia, and since there aren't two scumteams, the other kill had to come from either a vig or a serial killer. If Farside is the SK, then she knows there isn't a vig. Conversely, if she knows there isn't a vig, then she must be the SK.

I like it.

Too many assumptions to entertain voting based on this, but it's a very good observation and probably one worth revisiting as time goes by.

[Ythan]

Farside, are you saying that if there's a doc we should consider that it might be a mafia doc?

Vote: WRP_Beater.

You really need to break this habit.

Ok then.

WRP_Beater, is that all you've got to offer?

That was to not be prodded.

Someone who's only posting to avoid being prodded should probably replace out.

WRP makes me wish for a vig. I just read it all as VI and non helpful.

Huh?

Unvote: WRP_Beater. Vote: Farside22.

You're an SK.

Ugh.

Actually it makes sense that wishing for a vig after seeing two kills is an odd thing to say.

[Ythan]

Odd thing to say, but last night was an odd night. You know?