Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[Lamont_Cranston]

+Mmmm, no going backwards now! From here onward we separate the men from the boys! Dam fricking ya! This awesome game is so very...

COSMIC!!!

Vote Zwet

(4th of July vote)

@Ortolan

What took you so long to confirm?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Fact: Kairyuu is in a game with magnus_orion.

Fact: Kairyuu is town.

Fact: Kairyuu has yet to be the same alignment as magnus_orion.

Conclusion: magnus_orion is scum.

vote: magnus_orion

Why are you obsessed with your alignment?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

MOD: Please take note of the quoted post.

Mastin DIE!

Unvote, Vote Mastin

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Mastin: Anti-town=/=scummy. I will not vote you for something I know you do on purpose. I do not think that it works, and this sort of thing is essentially what got people to not like playing with Natirasha, since he always claimed SK in his first post. I strongly dislike anti-town plays like that, but I'm not naive enough to actually vote you over an annoying null tell.

I don't care this sucks so bad I don't care he's dying.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

Yes but we can get his moronic playstyle do drop his dam note.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes. But he claims to have a death note. As per the rules, we must gain and destroy all death notes, and vigging him forces shinigami to drop death note as per the rules.

LOL where's a good day vig when you need one right?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod Votecount please.

Votecounts will be edited into the top of every page.

[Lamont_Cranston]

EVERYBODY STOP!

Seems we have a genuine scummyperson.

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

MOD: Please take note of the quoted post.

Mastin DIE!

Unvote, Vote Mastin

Note the attempt to get Mastin modkilled on page 1. If had actually done something against the rules then yes, I would somewhat agree with you. However, I think you're just being spiteful and trying to end the Day before the RVS has even fully ended.

unvote

vote: Lamont_Cranston

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

@Zeenon: Please check the rules post. The mod said to only use formatting if it has a purpose. Color changes are formatting.

@all: Screw it. Lamont is so obv-scum he get's to die right here, right now.

Daykill: Lamont_Cranston

I would of thought you would of learned how to play Mafia by now. apparently you have alot of learning to do.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Oh God, it's another one. Mmk, I'm just going to head this off before it starts.

@Lamont: Back off. Now. You do not want to press the ad hom further. Trust me.

I love your wiki by the way. It fails to apply at all to actual strong scumtells. Not to mention the fact that you would be hard pressed to avoid your own lynch if you tried to push lynches based solely on those criteria.

@Zeenon: Yes it was. It was totally a real kill. I swear.

Adhom no. Criticizing bad play, yes.

The purpose of my wiki is not to display scum tells, it is to display my unwavering policies regarding certain forms of bad play.

I don't publicize my scum tells.

[Lamont_Cranston]

EVERYBODY STOP!

Seems we have a genuine scummyperson.

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

MOD: Please take note of the quoted post.

Mastin DIE!

Unvote, Vote Mastin

Note the attempt to get Mastin modkilled on page 1. If had actually done something against the rules then yes, I would somewhat agree with you. However, I think you're just being spiteful and trying to end the Day before the RVS has even fully ended.

unvote

vote: Lamont_Cranston

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

@Zeenon: Please check the rules post. The mod said to only use formatting if it has a purpose. Color changes are formatting.

@all: Screw it. Lamont is so obv-scum he get's to die right here, right now.

Daykill: Lamont_Cranston

Granted, much of this appears to be a joke post and so with

that

understanding I will grant you a genuine "LOL" but generally I have a very narrow sense of humour and so it is harder for me to appreciate such things.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yet vote for Lamount instead...

Yes, I have my reasons. I want to hear what lamont thinks they are, actually...

I believe you are scumhunting in the RVS as am I. It's all good.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont_Cranston's thoughts: "

Why is magnus_orion busing me so early?

"

No you idiot, its "Why is Zee bussing me so early!?"

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Lamont: Except for the daykill bit that whole post was serious. I think you are scum, and I feel strongly enough about that to lynch you.

Since the DK part has been proven to be air (can't be sure what to expect in this game) alot of my OMGUS has vanished.

Carry on.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yet vote for Lamount instead...

Yes, I have my reasons. I want to hear what lamont thinks they are, actually...

I believe you are scumhunting in the RVS as am I. It's all good.

Way to be vague.
What made me vote YOU though?

Yet vote for Lamount instead...

Yes, I have my reasons. I want to hear what lamont thinks they are, actually...

I believe you are scumhunting in the RVS as am I. It's all good.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Lamont: Except for the daykill bit that whole post was serious. I think you are scum, and I feel strongly enough about that to lynch you.

Since the DK part has been proven to be air (can't be sure what to expect in this game) alot of my OMGUS has vanished.

Carry on.

Waitwaitwaitwait. You actually thought the Daykill linking to a funny video was REAL.

Heh. Heheheheheheheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! That's priceless.

You're still scum though.

Yes.

In other news, I am starting to enjoy playing with this crowd more.

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 2 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion)
Kairyuu - 1 (benmage)
magnus_orion - 1 (

Mastin

)

Mastin

- 1 (Lamont_Cranston)
ortolan - 1 (ZEEnon)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, mykonian, Kmd4390,

ZazieR

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Starbuck,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

We are very close to closing the case! If this condition is cleared, the case will be resolved in one step!

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Anyone think asking for a Mod-review of JACKASSERY from a player like Mastin is null tell? Raise your hand... *RAISES HAND*

"Oh god of day-vigs please kill Mastin. Thanks."

Peace out.

[Lamont_Cranston]

What part of:

MOD:

Please take note

of the quoted post.

don't you understand??

Lamount has ignored almost every point against him, and utterly ignored Magnus all together.

You don't get it do you? I ignore

YOU

.

Magnus I have responded to. He refused to listen but w/e. I think he's a good scum hunter unlike you.

You need to die. NAO!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok folks now that the furious action has lulled, its time for a brief LC overview:

Prob-town

Ortolan
KMD
Magnus
Zee

Scum-like

Kairu
Mastin

Case on Kairu to follow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Kairu

Fact: Kairyuu is town.

I would totally do that if we were both scum. It would be awesome.

I take a dim view of posts like these; alignment obsession.

Also, obligatory "Mastin that is so anti-town. What are you doing self-voting and claiming scum? Now we hafta lynch you cuz of WIFOM" spiel that won't actually go anywhere.

If you can't tell, I strongly disapprove of that move, but you've ignored everyone else who tried to get you to stop, so I'm not even gonna bother trying.

This is very weak and my gut doesn't like that.

EVERYBODY STOP!

Seems we have a genuine scummyperson.

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

MOD: Please take note of the quoted post.

Mastin DIE!

Unvote, Vote Mastin

Note the attempt to get Mastin modkilled on page 1. If had actually done something against the rules then yes, I would somewhat agree with you. However, I think you're just being spiteful and trying to end the Day before the RVS has even fully ended.

unvote

vote: Lamont_Cranston

An obvious crap case (the bold green section is obviously calling for Mod review) and severe buddying with Mastin?? Once again there is just something wrong here.

@Mastin: I don't actually dislike your playstyle, just the initial self-vote. I despise extended RVSs, but I don't really have a problem with the concept if used in moderation (aka. 1 page or less). Usually by then I can find something that I can poke at until it turns into real discussion.

I must admit though, your method is quite effective as well.

Who believes Mastin is in any way effective?? More disgusting buddying with someone who should be default-corpse.

Why would we lynch him (Mastin)? He's obvtown.

OBVTOWN MASTIN?! My goodness, this is beyond the pale! There is something very wrong here.

Kairyuu is far from the fuzzy-villagery feel I'm supposed to get from townies.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont attempted to get Mastin mod-killed

I called for a Mod review of his jackassery

because it hurts the game that the Mod worked hard on

. This should make perfect sense to you. Instead you have chosen to drink the kool-aid on that issue.

On Lamont:

I would of thought you would of learned how to play Mafia by now.

This is a personal attack...

I agree. Can we please keep personal attacks out of the game?

And you're wrong. It is a criticism of a playstyle that appeared to result in my death. Tenderfoot much?

Granted, much of this appears to be a joke post and so with

that

understanding I will grant you a genuine "LOL" but generally I have a very narrow sense of humour and so it is harder for me to appreciate such things.

Then you are definitely playing the WRONG game.

Here I think we agree. But I'm not in the wrong game, just in a game where I have to do some adjusting.

Lamount has ignored almost every point against him, and utterly ignored Magnus all together.

You don't get it do you? I ignore

YOU

.

Magnus I have responded to. He refused to listen but w/e. I think he's a good scum hunter unlike you.

You need to die. NAO!

I think blatantly ignoring anyone in a mafia game isn't a good play at all and is incredibly scummy.

Normally of course this is true, but Mastin with his Jackassery is not normal and he needs to DIE, NAO!.

Less Koolaid, more common sense please.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw I see both cases from Starbuck against me & Magnus as crap. My case I have addressed. Magnus' case he will have to address but I will say I like his point where he suspects Mastin.

Those players that are "playing along" with Mastin are doing the village harm.

Somebody please QFT the above. Thank you.

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

, Starbuck)
Kairyuu - 1 (benmage)

Mastin

- 1 (Lamont_Cranston)
ortolan - 1 (ZEEnon)
benmage - 1 (Kmd4390)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, mykonian,

ZazieR

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

I'VE WON! Exactly as planned!

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I can also see the case against Lamont,

and the way (ad hom) he reacted

This myth has been refuted. Clearly my reaction was based on what appeared to be a vig kill. In addition, it

was not an ad hom

it was an attack on the playtyle that would of produced that vig kill.

Btw, since I'm posting here, I don't like how you join the Kai/Mastin band and say they look town!? Whoops...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I wish, Zee. I *think* that Ort's a member of my group, but because I was the ONLY one using the QT and wasn't informed of my partner's name, there's no way to be certain. <_<

If you are claiming scum, I want your role name please.
Why are you choosing to reveal this to us?
On a side note, why haven't you accepted my EM friend request?

Based upon Open 145, ZEEnon is not town.

IGMEOY

Sorry if this has been covered already (I am in mid-thread) but can you please cite the criteria within Open 145 that proves this?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw I see both cases from Starbuck against me & Magnus as crap. My case I have addressed. Magnus' case he will have to address but I will say I like his point where he suspects Mastin.

Those players that are "playing along" with Mastin are doing the village harm.

Somebody please QFT the above. Thank you.

Mastin's case is crap but Starbuck has only make a single post, why not ask her some Q's first and see if theres any reasonable observations to be had?

Notice I did not "FoS" Starbuck here. My responses to her attack are my questions. She doesn't seem like the type of player that will just say nothing.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont, why is kairyuu scum?
...

The game is very, very early right now. Two factions are developing:

1) The Mastin Jackassery Fan Club
2) Logical Mafia Players

I cannot say Kai is scum but I definately don't get town vibes and I have outlined the case clearly and I have left nothing out of what I don't like in my previous post on page 5.

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 4 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

)

Mastin

- 4 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, PhilyEc, zwetschenwasser)
magnus_orion - 3 (mykonian, Seraphim, ZEEnon)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

semioldguy

)
Bemage - 1 (Kmd4390)
ZEEnon - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Not voting:

cateraction

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Starbuck, Kise, Stephoscope, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone

Light is Kira? That would be Awesome if it was true.

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes.
However, lamont has stated a policy of not announcing what he finds scummy. I intend to foricibly draw discussion out of him.

Ok, let me

finally

clear this up now that I understand it.

That statement was in response to the crappy analysis of my wiki by Kai. In said fecal-based analysis, Kai said he didn't like how no scum tells are listed in it.

My response was "I don't

list

my scum tells."

I explain scum-tells in-thread.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I totally agree with Zwet.

This is a contradiction.

Nuu.. He thinks Mastins acting different to his town play, so do I.

he claimed third party, yes, I call that different. We agree on that. I'm still thinking what it means.

Well if he were scum, claiming to have a neutral role MIGHT earn him some credit right off the bat, obviously people didnt like it (Kairyuu seems to have for some uknown reason). Doing it early lets him jump on the 'I claimed before I was forced to so its less likely to be a lie' excuse.

If hes telling the truth, he really shoud've waited >_>

QFT.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also, Lamont:

Why ask for it if you're not trying to get a modkill?

This. Please answer.

And Mastin, it was not OMGUS in my eyes.

Zazier I like your playstyle.

I logged in with joy at an awesome, HUGE theme-game and within the first 30 minutes

ConsoM

Mastin with great Jackassery begins claiming all sorts of crap which immediately looks like an attempt to take advantage of his position as a neutral to abuse the game. I became very alarmed and wanted to make sure the Mod saw it and weighed in on it if necessary so I asked for a

Mod review

and a

votecount

.

[Lamont_Cranston]

he claimed third party, yes, I call that different. We agree on that. I'm still thinking what it means.

Well if he were scum, claiming to have a neutral role MIGHT earn him some credit right off the bat, obviously people didnt like it (Kairyuu seems to have for some uknown reason). Doing it early lets him jump on the 'I claimed before I was forced to so its less likely to be a lie' excuse.

If hes telling the truth, he really shoud've waited >_>

Lets get this straight: death gods don't seem the good guys to me. I don't think scum would claim them, this early. It just doesn't happen often. Third party, with some different wincon, is also not town.

I'm still trying to understand why he claimed.

Ahh, a glimmer of light is entering...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Deathnotes gotta give either Day Kills or Night Kills, Myk. They're powerful tools afterall. Maybe is Mastin is a shinigami, hes got conditions that match up with the anime?

Ryuk needs apples? Rem needs Misa alive and noteless? Sidoh needs to regain HIS deathnote?

Very interesting.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Mastin Jackassery: I didn't see the same read on Zee buddying with you but you harping on it doesn't really make any point. I am reconsidering my position concerning Zee based on the meta-argument that Zazier has begun.

LOL,

you

criticize the quality of my play... 9.9

[Lamont_Cranston]

Zee, I have found your play as town. More experienced players have brought up a meta-argument that would indicate you were looking for an excuse not to push a mastin lynch. I am following their arguments as I missed this point in my read of the game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

That was helluvah annoying to catch up. This game is flying. Can we just lynch Mastin and start playing this game?

This. <3 <3

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok town, here's what we need:

A MASTIN-ECTOMY!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Zee, I have found your play as town. More experienced players have brought up a meta-argument that would indicate you were looking for an excuse not to push a mastin lynch. I am following their arguments as I missed this point in my read of the game.

You state that you find my play as town, but don't say whether it matches up with what they have stated.
What was the point of you looking up my town meta in the first place?

An excellent point. I like how you ask me that instead of just accepting my view of your play.

It is still very early but here is my initial read on you:

1) I like your Orto vote
2) I like youre initial attack on Mastin Jackassery
3) I disagree with your vote and analysis of Magnus but I can still see it ias pro-town scum hunting.

[Lamont_Cranston]

In short, I am saying that if Mastin WAS genuine on his claim as Shinigami, then that

would

only result in a new Kira by the time D2 rolled around.

You mean

could

don't you?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I cannot say Kai is scum but I definately don't get town vibes and I have outlined the case clearly and I have left nothing out of what I don't like in my previous post on page 5.

You did say Kai was scum, though:

Ok folks now that the furious action has lulled, its time for a brief LC overview:

Scum-like

Kairu
Mastin

Case on Kairu to follow.

Magnus, this should be

very

clear to you:

scum-like

=/=

scum

necessarily

.

I will point out again that it is very early, but it is clear that Kai is on the

wrong

side of this argument and I do not yet know why...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also, as long as a Death Note is not destroyed, the Shinigami will be able to survive. Everyone who has seen/read Death Note knows this. Losing it, doesn't affect them.
And explain the LaL bit.

Rem could tell you another way to kill a Shinigami.

I'm sorry, but can we hear more about this?

Don't like this vote as Kevin barely mentioned what was discussed.
And why do you want Mastin to be killed during the night? Why not a lynch?

I think Mastin is more distracting than scummy. I'd like him dead,

but I don't want to use a lynch on him

. I actually don't see him as scum right now.

Please fully explain this.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Same thing[?]

o_O

No. People can do things that are perceived as scummy and not be scum. I don't think Kai is acting in a pro-town way currently but it is too early to determine anything beyond that I think he is "scum-like".

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod: Please prod Tajo, Gorrad, Wey[/color

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod: Please prod Tajo, Gorrad, Wey

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have ones that are more likely scum, based on things like ad hom, (lamont).

Pardon, but this was already refuted pages ago. It appeared that I had been killed by a day-vig shot and I criticized a

play-style

that would support such an action. I understand how you may of missed this as certain people have pushed this kool-aid of an idea.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I logged in with joy at an awesome, HUGE theme-game and within the first 30 minutes

ConsoM

Mastin with great Jackassery begins claiming all sorts of crap which immediately looks like an attempt to take advantage of his position as a neutral to abuse the game. I became very alarmed and wanted to make sure the Mod saw it and weighed in on it if necessary so I asked for a

Mod review

and a

votecount

.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Will we get notified in this topic if a Death Note has been destroyed?
Yes.

Mod, will we be notified in thread of a note is transferred?

No.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Anyway, to claim a Shinigami role when theres at least three (Gem Sidoh and Ryuk) has me thinking this is a safe move compared to claiming town since you're not scum, you're not town's target and you dont need to make your name known (risks being counter claimed). Basically, I'd rather lynch Misa or Kira rather than Ryuk since theyre the ones that can kill of town and objective is the remove town members while not getting lynched =/

Sorry, could you please flesh this out a bit?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yeah gimme a sec, I kinda confused myself because now I think hes telling the truth and wanting someone in this game to know hes one of at least 3 possible Shinigami.

If hes Ryuk, hes looking for Light,
If hes Rem, hes looking for Misa,
If hes Sidoh, hes looking for Mello,

Those three humans have deathnotes at the moment in my opinion, this is all theory though.

I think its a safe move because,
Claiming right off the bat instead of being forced seems more believable, claiming third role if forced is hardly believable, but here no one but who he wants to know , knows hes a shinigami (aka Light, Misa, Mello.)

You can disregard the rest since I dont think hes scum making a move to look third party.

Unvote

Its strange that Mastin scumhunts when that isnt his objective though, I doubt Shinigami win with town. Any more clarification needed?

Yes, when you say "looking for" what do you mean by that since its not mentioned in the rules? How would he "find" who he is looking for?

[Lamont_Cranston]

My two other main suspects are Lamont because:

of

acting like a little irritating kid

with his 'mod please look at this post'

'please prod these people', after just one and a half days

in the game where there are already lots of posts to read.

Well, at least its good to know you only suspect me for being immature and game-obsessive...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Zwet wants you to use the bunny

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hey! Don't doubt the rabbit!! :/

[Lamont_Cranston]

WTH!?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hmmm, I just googled the wiki. It says that Penber is a FBI agent who is chasing down the Kira.

So since Mastin has died this means he was just village...

This means Mastin = Master of Jackassery

This means Mastin = FAIL

My initial reaction was rejoicing but now its been replaced by being totally pissed off.

I'm going to update my wiki to include a new section in "honor" of Mastin. It will be called:

"Jackassery"

:/

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yup he earns a spot under the "Crap Play" heading. :/

[Lamont_Cranston]

Really, Zee? With crap play like that I would suspect more mafi off the wagon than on...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I would try to look for his "certain" defenders. People that would be more certain of his innocence than would be normal for mere blind villagers...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok last post for awhile then. I found two strong Mastin defenders:

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

All this talk of, "He needs to be vig-killed so the death note is destroyed," doesn't sit well with me.. You guys do know there are also anti-town here? All of you could target Mastin at night and the DN will more than likely fall in the hands of an SK. Our best bet would have been for Mastin not to claim Shinigami at all, because now we're gonna have a new Kira either way... I think... or maybe the Killers are automatically given a death note(?).

From what I gathered reading the rules, if a killer takes a death note, they somehow buddy up with the Shinigami[?] Or do the multiple Shinigami in this game have their own separate mini-game where they are in a "race" to lose their death notes first[?]

(Just so you guys know, I use the [?] "tags" as a way to express my inner thoughts. It's not as if I really ask any of you to reply to it. Nothing more than reflections.)

And wouldn't Mastin be mod-killed if he was telling the truth about being Shinigami?

(Now THAT is an actual question I pose to everyone.)

LMAO @ Posts 76 & 77. If it weren't for the fact that they were less than a minute apart, I would think Mastin was being an asshole and ignored magnus' request on purpose. But seriously, Mastin, you don't need to comment on EVERYTHING someone says. Especially whenever you're not answering a concern or adding anything relevant.. It makes me feel impulsed to skim through what you post & ignore the quotes.

I get the feeling that magnus or Mastin will continue this little squabble over quote-links, quote-pyramids, etc...

Lol @ "You seem to be craving the noose more than David Carradine." I would never have expected Carradine's name to appear on MS. Ok, at this point, I feel the need to contribute something more beneficial. I could commentate on what I've read so far from up to page 5, but that'd be boring.

The way Mastin is claiming Shinigami and STILL being alive makes it blatant that he has not broken any rules, so I may be gullible by giving him a chance to still claim Shinigami. He's claimed to have been a lot of various PRs & anti-town roles.. Yet hasn't been MK'd. So you have to wonder whether any of his claims ring true if he's still able to play. I believe this is why Kai said that Mastin is obvtown. It's rather cheap, and could suck the fun out of the game if all of us did the same exact thing.. And honestly Mastin, this is the exact reason you get NK'd a lot -- You go so far to confirm your towniness. It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol. HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.

I might be looking at Mastin's approach from the wrong angle.. He could very well be a Shinigami who "doesn't care for humans." In which case, I say it's a good idea for "certain" people to lynch him in order for his plan to go through (a plan I presume, anyway).

It's up to Gelus who he picks to hold the death note. A townie could hold/destroy it, or an anti-town player could hold it and become Kira. I don't like leaving things up to chance. Leading a lynch on a supposed Shinigami will only lure in the killers to get a chance at holding a Death Note. On the same token, it sucks that probability has to decide whether a vig or a killer win the death note if both parties target the supposed Shinigami. In short, I am saying that if Mastin WAS genuine on his claim as Shinigami, then that would only result in a new Kira by the time D2 rolled around.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry, and this:

OK, kai and Mastin (stop with posting that way, I stopped reading them, so you won't get me convinced or something) seem town on page 4.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok last post for awhile then. I found two strong Mastin defenders:

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

All this talk of, "He needs to be vig-killed so the death note is destroyed," doesn't sit well with me..

He's claimed to have been a lot of various PRs & anti-town roles.. Yet hasn't been MK'd. So you have to wonder whether any of his claims ring true if he's still able to play. I believe this is why Kai said that Mastin is obvtown. It's rather cheap, and could suck the fun out of the game if all of us did the same exact thing.. And honestly Mastin, this is the exact reason you get NK'd a lot -- You go so far to confirm your towniness.

It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol.

HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.

ORLY? Sure everybody knew Mastin was obvtown here, of course!

I see Kise here setting up mislynches and absolving himself of any guilt. Anyone who looks at Mastin's play as town

should

of been voting him. But he hangs back and plays "Judge". Sounds like he has inside knowledge, *cough*scum*cough*

Vote Kise

[Lamont_Cranston]

I believe this is why Kai said that Mastin is obvtown

Notice the potential connection here between Kise and Kai (both Mastin defenders).

[Lamont_Cranston]

Its a bit more than that; quote to follow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok last post for awhile then. I found two strong Mastin defenders:

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

All this talk of, "He needs to be vig-killed so the death note is destroyed," doesn't sit well with me..

He's claimed to have been a lot of various PRs & anti-town roles.. Yet hasn't been MK'd. So you have to wonder whether any of his claims ring true if he's still able to play. I believe this is why Kai said that Mastin is obvtown. It's rather cheap, and could suck the fun out of the game if all of us did the same exact thing.. And honestly Mastin, this is the exact reason you get NK'd a lot -- You go so far to confirm your towniness.

It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol.

HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.

ORLY? Sure everybody knew Mastin was obvtown here, of course!

I see Kise here

setting up mislynches

and absolving himself of any guilt. Anyone who looks at Mastin's play as town

should

of been voting him. But he hangs back and plays "Judge". Sounds like he has inside knowledge, *cough*scum*cough*

Vote Kise

Scum know who is not scum and it is clear here that you aren't taking the approach that would be expected of a townie. Your approach is that of one that already knows he is not scum; how is this when his behavior is so terrible? You aren't like the rest who said his play sucks but didn't actually vote. You went as far as to suggest

lynching

those that voted for him. That is beyond the pale over the top scummy.

Confirm vote: Kise

[Lamont_Cranston]

Don't bold the word lynching... because I did not say to lynch those on Mastin's wagon. I said they would be the best candidates for people to keep your eyes on, I.E. watching them throughout the game to see if they say any scumtells, etc. It should be a no-brainer that you don't lynch people right away without having enough evidence to use against them.

Sounds familiar... OOH, isn't that what you're doing now???

You're wanting to lynch me based on my scumhunting technique, and NOT based on any scummy behaviour/motives.

Confirmed Asshole: Lamont_Cranston

You ad hom a lot, so it shouldn't hurt when the tables turn.

And for the last fucking time.. I put my trust in Mastin because IF he was mafia or Shinigami, he would have been modkilled for claiming those roles.

Stop saying that you KNOW I put my trust in Mastin based off a false reason of "I'm scum who knows everyone else, including Mastin, is town."

I put my trust in Mastin because IF he was mafia or Shinigami, he would have been modkilled for claiming those roles.

Get it through your thick skull and don't let it pass through that empty cranium of yours... The above quote IS the ONLY reason I agreed that Mastin was definitely a townie.

Tell me something, Lamont: If your scumhunting methods are so perfect, then how come we find out that Mastin, your previous suspect, was in fact townie? To me, this implies you have a few cracks in your SH'ing technique. Get off the computer for a second to refocus your eyes; they have failed you TWICE now this week.

I don't adhom but I have a thick skin so I don't mind them.

Its easy

now

to say that Mastin was townie. My case against him

crap play

however. Those guilty of crap play can't blame their lynchers for lynching them; its their fault (please see my wiki). If it was a townie that vigged Mastin, they can't be blamed for being wrong -- it was Mastin's fault.

Its simple. I think scum will take your view on Mastin using the inside knowledge they have that he's not scum. Scum will also lay the groundwork for future mis-lynches as you have done. A townie would at least suspect that Mastin could be scum based on his terrible behavior, but you? No,

you start making a list of potential scum on his wagon BEFORE he flips town.

+scum

[Lamont_Cranston]

Huh. Mastin got shot (presumably by a dayvig) And he was town.
...

vote: Lamont

Not buying this kise wagon. Looks

really

fabricated. Kise's posts show a familiarity with mastin's playstyle. Therefore, being able to judge based on meta alone would be perfectly reasonable. This wagon stinks of opportunistic scum trying to take advantage of the sudden new development (and rock the mob opinion away from analyzing those on the wagon)

@Kise: ... Your reasoning for that being a modkill makes so many fallicious assumptions, its simply staggering. How about you ask the mod to clarify the rules, rather than make assumptions. I believe making claims is fine (and I'm going to go out on a limb here, but considering its a mafia game, lying about said claims is probably okay too), Gelus merely wants to avoid cryptography and joint cooperation (like through night-talks, perhaps) in an attempt to break the game or gain a significant advantage (Like secret messages or signals or what not). I could be wrong. But arguing about it accomplishes nothing when there is a more direct solution (asking the Mod) to figuring out who's right.

Ok, so you actually believe him when he says "oh its just his playstyle and I'm going to lynch scum that vote for him"? How come he's the only one with that attitude

before

he flipped town?

Couldn't the case against Kise be true here? It looks like a clear case of setting up lynches to me. With Mastin play being that crappy, Kise's post is definitely unnatural.

Can you speak to the actual case instead of how it "feels to you like BW-ing"?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I would try to look for his "certain" defenders. People that would be more certain of his innocence than would be normal for mere blind villagers...

I was pretty sure he was town.

Right, by the lack of votes on Matin, alot of people were. But you didn't go to the point of saying "I'm going to lynch scum off his wagon" BEFORE he flipped town did you? Kise did and that's my point.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.

Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.

The only thing I don't like about this, is that he hasn't shown anything that he did look at those players. But that was already said in my previous post.

Excellent point. Based on previous play with Kise:

Unvote

I am 99% doubting he would use that to cover his tracks here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

It said he is "used by Light" in the TV show. Maybe he was town but could be potentially used by the mafia so acted the way he did deliberately to get killed? I dunno. Or maybe it's just his playstyle.

This was Mastin's playstyle

And he was used by Light to kill Raye's team members. Due to him, Light found out all the names of those investigating the Kira case

.

Can you please clarify this? Please tell me it didn't happen because of his death...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I will say right here and now that Orto has impressed me as a very good player (I have watched him in LAL Modded by Yos2) and besides I really like his avi.

Let us look at this Kise case because I am throughly conflicted. We have two ace players with conflicting views and me swayed by both of them:

Oh snapz... Mastin gets MK'd for going around the rules for real. Kai' knew what he was talking about when he said Mastin was obv-town, but we must start over.

Yes, people, it WAS a MK. Check out the mod-edits at the top of every page; Mastin's name is in green during the vote count because Gelus is signifying that he has HAD Mastin under review.

No day-vig-kills here. Otherwise, we'd have entered night phase, yeah? Now, let's move on.

You are an instigator;

A heckler, at best. You thought you found Mastin out as scum, but look(!), his name is green..

And your case against me is that I knew for sure that Mastin was town? Well, yeah, he tried to loophole his way into proving himself as a townie by claiming a bunch of roles. He wasn't MK'd up until that point, so it was evident to me that if he's not shinigami, cop, scum, tracker, doctor, mason, etc., then he was townie. That's my reason for believing Mastin as pro-town.

Now notice that this is WITHIN THE SAME POST! Would scum actually do this!? And use THAT kiind of crapologic IN THE SAME POST, INTENTIONALLY?? I think not. Oh wait, let me rephrase that: I think not.

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.
Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.

I still hold this as the proper view.

I think both my case and Orto's case on Kise are

excellent

but Zaze points out a fatal flaw that I cannot overcome with either of our cases. I have meta to further indicate this but I can't bring it up because the game is ongoing.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Seen that deathnotes give some kind of power, I don't think that is what is happening here. Therefor, I guess that Mastin doesn't have a deathnote.

Mastin, am I right?

Here is post #219 for viewing convenience. The case here is that scum would love to inherit a juicy note from a neutral.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Besides my suspicions, I was just curious to see your reactions, which reading farther on you become very overly defensive as soon as the town's eyes turn in your direction. My vote will be staying where it is because you sir are scum.

I agree with you here Star, but my meta shows that this is totally in character for Kise and with Zaze's excellent point I can only see all of these inconsistencies as play that is just typical for Kise.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
mykonian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone

Let's value our lives.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I will say right here and now that Orto has impressed me as a very good player (I have watched him in LAL Modded by Yos2) and besides I really like his avi.

Let us look at this Kise case because I am throughly conflicted. We have two ace players with conflicting views and me swayed by both of them:

Oh snapz... Mastin gets MK'd for going around the rules for real. Kai' knew what he was talking about when he said Mastin was obv-town, but we must start over.

Yes, people, it WAS a MK. Check out the mod-edits at the top of every page; Mastin's name is in green during the vote count because Gelus is signifying that he has HAD Mastin under review.

No day-vig-kills here. Otherwise, we'd have entered night phase, yeah? Now, let's move on.

You are an instigator;

A heckler, at best. You thought you found Mastin out as scum, but look(!), his name is green..

And your case against me is that I knew for sure that Mastin was town? Well, yeah, he tried to loophole his way into proving himself as a townie by claiming a bunch of roles. He wasn't MK'd up until that point, so it was evident to me that if he's not shinigami, cop, scum, tracker, doctor, mason, etc., then he was townie. That's my reason for believing Mastin as pro-town.

Now notice that this is WITHIN THE SAME POST! Would scum actually do this!? And use THAT kiind of crapologic IN THE SAME POST, INTENTIONALLY?? I think not. Oh wait, let me rephrase that: I think not.

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.
Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.

I still hold this as the proper view.

I think both my case and Orto's case on Kise are

excellent

but Zaze points out a fatal flaw that I cannot overcome with either of our cases. I have meta to further indicate this but I can't bring it up because the game is ongoing.

Actually, I disagreed with your case against him for the already stated reason.

As I pointed out.

However, I pointed three things out which I see as scummy from Kise:
-That he said that those who were voting Mastin are good to look at, but not doing this.

Probably in line with meta.

-The ad hom attacks against you as they are saying that you have been wrong about some players before, and therefore you are wrong now.

Definitely in meta.

-His mod question about roleclaiming after Mastin was killed, and not before he was killed.

This could nullify your argument against my original case but I could see where a player would hold back because of all the kool-aid cases made against me for being sure that the Mod examined Mastin's Jackassery.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

I usually don't do that as I like to let others scum hunt in peace. Kise is off my radar as of now.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Here is a lurk poster list:

Zwet(*)
Cater(*)
Jebus(*)
Tajo
Budja
Gorrad (to be replaced in 15 hours if he doesn't post)
ABR(*)
Semi
Seraph
Stepho
Llama
Wey

Some of these are hardcore lurking as indicated by a star (*).

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

I usually don't do that as I like to let others scum hunt in peace. Kise is off my radar as of now.

That he's off your radar doesn't mean that he's off of mine. So I'd have liked to hear his response before yours.
But have you done this before? If so, link(s)?

Done what before? I'm no longer involved in the Kise case.

[Lamont_Cranston]

What do you mean "on which I'm basing"?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

I usually don't do that as I like to let others scum hunt in peace. Kise is off my radar as of now.

That he's off your radar doesn't mean that he's off of mine. So I'd have liked to hear his response before yours.
But have you done this before? If so, link(s)?

Done what before? I'm no longer involved in the Kise case.

Responding to a case before the player at whom it is aimed has responded.

No I don't do it period. I will comment on a BW I don't agree with but I don't answer for people. As for as I was concerned those points were directed to me regardless if you directed them to me or not. As of now I'm done with it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@ Kai:

What are your reads on

Spoilum

&

Philly

?

[Lamont_Cranston]

@ Kai:

What are your reads on

Spoilum

&

Philly

?

@KMD:

Same.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@ Kai:

What are your reads on

Spoilum

&

Philly

?

@KMD:

Same.

@Zee:

Same

[Lamont_Cranston]

What do you mean "on which I'm basing"?

Well, you called those players lurkers. Why those? (aka which 'requirements' have they met that you call them lurkers)

Not posting, basrely posting, obviously watching the game and not posting actively.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I wouldn't rule out Kise and LC pairing still. LC was quick to unvote based on nothing other than Zazier requoting what his original reason for voting Kise was. It's that or mykonian. I'll stick with Kise I think. He did enough that was scummy independently of LC.

Vote: Kise

Also, what's your response to this Lamont?

I have explained that I can see his case of terrible inconsistency but I do not see scum being able to do that intentionally and it is within Kise's meta to act such.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why did you ask Kai and Kevin for their reads?

I see Kai, KMD & Zee on the opposite sides of an issue with Philly & Spoilum.

The issue revolves around death note speculation; specifically the way that death notes are used. The way that the issue is being discussed makes me feel

uncomfortable

.

I thought I would draw attention to it and see if it interests anyone else.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (mykonian, Starbuck, ortolan)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
mykonian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone, Lamont_Cranston

If you use your head, you won't get fat even if you eat sweets.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I wouldn't rule out Kise and LC pairing still. LC was quick to unvote based on nothing other than Zazier requoting what his original reason for voting Kise was. It's that or mykonian. I'll stick with Kise I think. He did enough that was scummy independently of LC.

Vote: Kise

Also, what's your response to this Lamont?

I have explained that I can see his case of terrible inconsistency but I do not see scum being able to do that intentionally and it is within Kise's meta to act such.

I actually pointed this out as he mentioned that he wouldn't rule out a Lamont - Kise pairing. And because he states that

your reason for unvoting was the same reason as you voted him for

.
Those are the reasons why I quoted this post from Orto, so it would be nice to see some responses to that.

Well I haven't agreed with everything Orto has said about me but I don't respond to every wrong statement that is made either.

Since you have brought it up, it

does

need some clarification.

Even a brief glance will show Orto's assertion to be false:

1) I voted him because (as scum) he is obviously setting up mislynches and responding incorrectly towards Mastin (as scum would not as town would).

2) I unvoted him because he cannot be scum using the criteria cited in #1 because:

a) He clearly has a reason for believing in Mastin's townliness (though a terribly flawed reason) and it is within his meta to believe that.

b) He clearly cannot be making that up which is 99% in line with his meta.

/fixed

Carry on.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also, I just realised that you're talking about a lot of Kise meta. How many games is this meta based upon, and which?

It is based on one game that unfortunately ongoing (we are both dead). I have enough of a read of him in these two games to be certain of things about his level of play; i.e. this fits his meta.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@lamont. If I read you correctly, Kise more often doesn't understand the rules/plays a little weird, and it can't be that he uses it as an excuse for his mistake?

Ya. I see his play in this game as 99.99% probable of being genuine.

I will point out that he

could

still be scum here but I just don't have a case on him any longer.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

@all: Trying to catch up. Not really succeeding.

Quote #477 for convenice of viewing.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well I losing their deathnote is most likely bad for a shinigami and the mod said shinigami may or may not have a deathnote.

Considering Mastin was encouraging attacks on himself, and the fact that being a shinigami isn't very pro-town by itself lead me to believe that Mastin had nothing to lose from a lynch, i.e no deadnote.

@Myk, how is Spolium's question a scumslip?

Yes, but that's the problem with Jackassery, it creates a

huge

WIFOM confusion problem for the town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

-That he said that those who were voting Mastin are good to look at, but not doing this.

Probably in line with meta.

-The ad hom attacks against you as they are saying that you have been wrong about some players before, and therefore you are wrong now.

Definitely in meta.

This may be consistent with how he normally plays, are you therefore saying it is a town-tell or a null-tell?

I will let him defend himself.

Do you think he is capable of deliberately subverting his town-meta to do the same thing as scum?

No. His meta clearly shows he gets

extremely

flustered under voting pressure; I am going to call this emotional flustering a null tell.

2) I unvoted him because he cannot be scum using the criteria cited in #1 because:

a) He clearly has a reason for believing in Mastin's townliness (though a terribly flawed reason) and it is within his meta to believe that.

b) He clearly cannot be making that up which is 99% in line with his meta.

Have you played with him where he was scum before?

No.

Playing in a manner consistent with his town meta does not mean he is not also playing in a manner consistent with his scum meta (it might be a null-tell in this particular case).

Agreed.

It just seems not only are you dismissing his actions as scum-tells but you seem to think they

clear

him at present which I'm definitely not seeing.

His meta does not suggest to me that he would be

faking

the error -- your point is he could actually do this as scum. I have to agree based on the cause being emotional flustering which is a null tell; i.e. he would be flustered both as town & scum. I'm calling the mistake a null tell. That's how I feel comfortable.

@lamont. If I read you correctly, Kise more often doesn't understand the rules/plays a little weird, and it can't be that he uses it as an excuse for his mistake?

Ya. I see his play in this game as 99.99% probable of being genuine.

I will point out that he

could

still be scum here but I just don't have a case on him any longer.

If you are 99.9% sure he is "being genuine" that, to me, implies you think he is 99.9% likely to be town. [color=blue

No, just that he's not faking his belief that Mastin would be Mod killed (this differs from

your

case which I talked about above).[/color]

Yet you are leaving open the door to him being scum here. If you "don't see a case on him any longer", what probability do you think he has of being scum?

I'm calling it rand() odds until I see something better.

What probability of scum does someone have to have before you normally vote them?[

Logical fallacies that represent non-town actions/scum actions

What does their probability normally have to lower to before you unvote them?

My case against them must become a logical fallacy.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, populartajo)
Spolium - 2 (Kmd4390, mykonian)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
mykonian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
Kairyuu - 1 (Spolium)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, WeyounsLastClone, Lamont_Cranston

Don't make me repeat myself.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

spolium seems not to understand that claiming you might have a deathnote gets you lynched. (= scumclaim)

I'd imagine being unlynchable and unkillable takes the sting out of it.

It doesn't seem to me that he understands that we have to destroy deathnotes, and if he was town, he would know that was his wincondition.

I refer you to this rule, from the first page:

The town win condition is to destroy all Death Notes.

The town win condition is common knowledge, I'm afraid.

That aside, I asked the question because Budja's post suggested special knowledge about Shinigami.

- We know that Shinigami drop their death notes if they're targeted for a lynch/kill but there is currently no way of knowing how this ties in to their unique win condition.

- Being unlynchable/unkillable, Shinigami will still be around even if they lose their death notes, and may even be able to retrieve them.

- Two of the three main Shinigami in the series willingly allow their death notes to be used by others.

Therefore, we cannot say with certainty that it would be stupid of Shinigami to claim. Only Shinigami know this.

____________

Can you elaborate on this?

Kairyuu's avatar features a character/quote from the series (and he's playing this game of course), so it's pretty much a given that he's familiar with the series.

In the series, when a name is written on a death note the result is a heart attack 40 seconds later. However, the writer can stipulate both time of death and cause of death. This is used so many times in the series that anyone who's read the manga/watched the anime cannot possibly be ignorant of it.

When it had been posited that death note holders could specify a cause of death, Kairyuu's response was:

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

I don't see how he could discount the idea so readily.

Can you please provide a link to some series reference where this is so? To where maybe even someone cause shooting to be the death?

Are the notes that powerful?

[Lamont_Cranston]

That aside, I asked the question because Budja's post suggested special knowledge about Shinigami.

Can you provide the quote for this for us all to see?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont_Cranston -> top contributer of the I hate Mastin group. Feels townie for contribution levels but why exactly did you think Mastin was scum?

Mastin was a crap player. For the same reason you believed he was obvtowin is the same reason I wanted him gone. Please let that sink in and check my wiki if you need help. Btw, welcome! You're awesome!

I totally hate his Kise swithc that goes to wanting him dead to even defend him.

Sorry, my criteria for him being scum no longer applies. Doesn't mean he's not scum and you are free to vote him which I see you did...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tajo, Lamont already backed off from Kise based on meta, and taking Kise's defence. You must have missed it. Kise also knows he was wrong, as the mod explained the rules.

Thats exactly my point. He knew Kise meta when he attacked him, or am I missing something here?

I didn't back off because of meta. I backed off because it was pointed out to me that there was no way he didn't

actually

believe that Mastin

HAD

to be town and I saw that there was no way he could fake it -- even though he was

terribly

wrong.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because there seems to be some common misunderstanding of how one should act in regards to the truth, I will paraphrase a story about Ghandi:

He had gathered a large number of people for a march against the British to gather salt which was against the law at that time. A massive crowd had gathered and they were waiting eagerly for the march to start. Ghandi stepped out infront of the crowd and called the march off. His assistants went to him and said, "You can't call off the march, all these people are gathered here waiting!!" Ghandi responded:

"I don't care about all these people, I care about the truth."

Class dismissed.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The issue revolves around death note speculation; specifically the way that death notes are used. The way that the issue is being discussed makes me feel

uncomfortable

.

Because one of us is right (me obv) and you are uncomfortable that we hit the nail on the head.

No, not really but I am concerned there may be some subtle rolefishing going on...

I thought I would draw attention to it and see if it interests anyone else.

Before you pursue the topic and give your own opinion.

Well actually, I am unfamiliar with the series but I find it fascinating and entertaining. I can't very well understand what is necessarily true or not without some clarification which is why I brought it up.

[Lamont_Cranston]

And yes, I made a personal attack on Lamont. He did quite a few himself early on in the game to others, so blame karma.

FAIL.

Adhom no. Criticizing bad play, yes.

And you're wrong. It is a criticism of a playstyle that appeared to result in my death. Tenderfoot much?

I can also see the case against Lamont,

and the way (ad hom) he reacted

This myth has been refuted. Clearly my reaction was based on what appeared to be a vig kill. In addition, it

was not an ad hom

it was an attack on the playtyle that would of produced that vig kill.

I have ones that are more likely scum, based on things like ad hom, (lamont).

Pardon, but this was already refuted pages ago. It appeared that I had been killed by a day-vig shot and I criticized a

play-style

that would support such an action. I understand how you may of missed this as certain people have pushed this kool-aid of an idea.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Duh, that is what everyone was asking himself. But

2/3 of the shinigami we know had a deathnote

, but still, Spolium can't see how the claim endangered Mastin.

Sorry I'm at work but you know this how!??

I can't research right now to se if I'm missing something obvious; i got phone calls...

I'm going to have to vote you if there isn't a good reason. Sorry if I am misunderstanding this.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You guys really need to post less. You put up something like six pages while im at work, and I usually am in the field so I cant even sneak in a post untill I get back to the office and am inputting data. Enough of my little bitching about the game too fast though.

For zwet, I believe his claim. Ive been half-watching the anime over again since I signed up for this, and it makes a lot of sense sans-lover part of the role. IIRC, the wife started hunting for kira after Mastin died.

Other stuff since im a little short on time now: I still like my myk vote quite a bit at this point. Zazie, zee and philly are giving me town reads early on.

I've had similar thoughts based on what I've read in thread here about Penbar.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Kai:

Why were you so convinced that death notes cannot be used as gunfire?

[Lamont_Cranston]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I find it unlikely that Mastin's death was deathnote related as he was shot. This would require control of the shooter which while possible seems much less likely than an ordinary kill.

Ok:

1) On the examples in the series of a death note being used to simulate a specific kill method, is

control

of a person required to bring about the death type specified?

2) Could a shooting kill type be specified

without

having to control an actual gunman?

[Lamont_Cranston]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Clearly this game has 3 factions: Anti-Kira (Town), Kira (Mafi) & Shingami (Neutrals). So to restate:

Is there

any

reason to believe (from actual series examples) that Kira would start out with death notes?

[Lamont_Cranston]

ABR is massively lurking. He has 7 posts this entire game. He seems to have strong knowledge of this game and it would be nice to hear him participate more...

[Lamont_Cranston]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Clearly this game has 3 factions: Anti-Kira (Town), Kira (Mafi) & Shingami (Neutrals). So to restate:

Is there

any

reason to believe (from actual series examples) that Kira would start out with death notes?

Well, I think that scum at least have one Death Note. How else can they be pro-Kira when there's no Kira?
And yes, the real Kira found a Death Note right at the start of the serie. The others came later.

Ok then I seriously want to know how

Kai

could of missed this. What do you think about my questions concerning specifying kill methods for notes?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I find it unlikely that Mastin's death was deathnote related as he was shot. This would require control of the shooter which while possible seems much less likely than an ordinary kill.

Ok:

1) On the examples in the series of a death note being used to simulate a specific kill method, is

control

of a person required to bring about the death type specified?

2) Could a shooting kill type be specified

without

having to control an actual gunman?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I find it unlikely that Mastin's death was deathnote related as he was shot. This would require control of the shooter which while possible seems much less likely than an ordinary kill.

Ok:

1) On the examples in the series of a death note being used to simulate a specific kill method, is

control

of a person required to bring about the death type specified?

2) Could a shooting kill type be specified

without

having to control an actual gunman?

>.< Stupid simulpost >.<
Uhm, if I remember correctly, you just have to write down that your victim gets shot. If you'd do that, he'd just be shot by somebody who'd be at the place and time you wrote down.
Does this answer your questions? If not, could you rephrase them?

Umm, OK then why is

Budja

hung up on

control

of a person required to produce a death note kill...

I'm really starting to see Spoilum as town here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'd like Kai to respond to Spoilum's assertions.

Vote Kai

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?

I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.

Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.

If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.

Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.

I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.

Thats exactly the kinda stuff I'm looking for, thank you. Are you trying to say you were busy doing something else before the death occured? and that makes you innocent?
And yes I do think the death note user would post when their kill was suppost to occur. I doubt a vig did it. You've seen why. Why do you want to call off the idea of it being a deathnote user so much as well as yourself by WIFOMing? If one was to look at who was online at the time Gelus was I'm sure we'd have a far clearer picture. Unfortunately I wasnt around at the time

Gelus posts when I'm asleep, I'd assume the players from his zone are more likely since you want to bring up that type of timing. It looks like it happened mid-gameplay too due to time gaps between posts.

FoS Zeenon

I asked if you exhibited this action, you in turn brought out a series of defenses. Do you has a deathnote Zee?

I agree here. Seems overdefensive much for no real necessary reason...?

FoS Zee

[Lamont_Cranston]

EBWOP:

The flavour also supports this; the story itself kicks off when one of the Shinigami drops his death note in the human world, allowing a human to pick it up and start using it. A second death note arrives in human hands due to a second Shinigami (who, incidently, falls in love - unrequited love - with the girl who she gives her).

This thought just came to me - Zwet has claimed one-sided lover/tracker. This seems to fit [url=http://[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM].com/shinigami-rem]Rem the Shinigami[/url] much better than Raye Penber's fiance. Thoughts?

I don't see how Zwet's real identity (if he's lying) would have anything to do with his fake-claim. I also don't see a connection bewteen Rem & Penber.

I see no purpose for his claim whatsoever and knowing something of his meta, he is probably lying but usually when he does these claim things he thinks he is fooling people into a certain type of action. Maybe he's rolefishing?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok, I've reviewed each player and besides ABR I also would like to point out:

Semi

started out strong but I feel like we haven't heard from him lately; I'd like to hear more from him on the latest game developments.

Seraphim

hardcore lurking. Started a pre-Mastin-death analysis and that's it...

I have found Spoilum to be very helpful.

I am currently suspecting

Kai, Zee & Budja

for posts about notes that are genuinely suspicious.

I do not like this post:

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Why does this matteeeeerrrrr...lets see whos acting scummy okay?

I kinda like Philly but his analysis doesn't ring as true as Spoilum's does.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Umm, OK then why is

Budja

hung up on

control

of a person required to produce a death note kill...

A Death Note allows you to control a person before you kill them.

No, he is saying that for a death note to be used to kill Mastin, a gun-wielder would have to be controlled...?

This thought just came to me - Zwet has claimed one-sided lover/tracker. This seems to fit [url=http://[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM].com/shinigami-rem]Rem the Shinigami[/url] much better than Raye Penber's fiance. Thoughts?

Actually. It does.

Rem is in love with Misa, who is obviously in love with Light.

Aha! I get it now. The lover could be the Shinigami! The funny thing is he could be Mafi and his claim would make just as much sense... 9.9

[Lamont_Cranston]

zwet: did you know Mastin was town before he died? and when did you find out he had been a tracker?

I agree that it was probably unnecessary/undesirable for you to claim

Nobody believed my fakeclaim...

I don't believe your fakeclaim about your claim being fake if that's what you mean...

Wait a minute, what did I just say??

[Lamont_Cranston]

But I'm not sure what happened to each of the Death Notes in the end...

NO SPOILERS PLEASE.

(I didn't read magnus's post because he quoted this)

And actually a counter claim would let us know Zwet or X is scum. This is something I'd reveal if someone lied about being me. Finds us scum afterall.

Not necessarily. He could be lying as town. And did he actually claim his character or was this assumed.

So now we have to take into account a town commiting anti-town acts on purpose and letting destruction ensue? I really wouldn't include the possibility of him lying as town. Zwet aint an idiot.

I agree with you because your analysis is so sound here but Zwet is kind of like shleprock from the flintstones -- sound analysis just breaks apart into little pebbles...

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Lamont_Cranston]

You forgot the Robot Chicken when he claimed Death Miller as scum

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, populartajo)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

)
Kairyuu - 2 (Spolium, Lamont_Cranston)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, mykonian

So if a Shinigami develops feelings for a human, and in order to extend that human's life, kills another person, the shinigami will die...

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You forgot the Robot Chicken when he claimed Death Miller as scum

Wait, he was scum?

YUP!

[Lamont_Cranston]

And?

Im very happy getting one deathnote from scum on Day One

with us losing one townie. Someone has to get Nk'd anyway like. With 25 players it'll take them a while to win if one of the deathnotes is gone after Day One.

You seem pretty certain that a lynched scum would have a death note. Any reason for this?

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, mykonian)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

)
Kairyuu - 2 (Spolium, Lamont_Cranston)
zwetschenwasser - 2 (populartajo, Kise)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc

And for this, Light-kun...I want you to play the part of the real Kira!

! M...Me?

Yes, it should be easy with your abilities.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right because my thought processes revolved around either scum having

no

death notes (having to get them from the Shinigamis) or

one

which would allow them to night kill as a group.

But you sounded

certain

you would get one...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right because my thought processes revolved around either scum having

no

death notes (having to get them from the Shinigamis) or

one

which would allow them to night kill as a group.

But you sounded

certain

you would get one...

Well to be honest I think of deathnotes as exchagable between shinigami and Kira's. And at the time I was certain I would get one, my logic failed.

The rules don't mention that, although I understand from reading that that's how it worked in the series. The rules have led me to believe Shinigamis have to be

killed

in order to give up their notes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

KMD, think about it: he claims, a believable claim, a night kill target, on a terrible moment. Scum wouldn't even think about doing it, so it is a zwet action. After getting some accusations about it, he claims it to be a fakeclaim...

why?

is the theory where he actually is what he claimed not just as likely?

I think it's just Zwet being stupid. I'd rather just ingore it.

This resoning progress doesnt feel right. In the first two posts, zwet is pretty much sure of his claim. But when asked, he quickly backs it off. Now, if he fakeclaimed he did it for a reason (Medieval Mafia is an example of this) but which is the reason here when he backs it off when he gets a little pressure_? It just doesnt feel zwettown.

You mean Medieval where he said he was looking for reactions and never said what he took from the reactions?

IIRC, zwet thought TSQ was scum for his reactions to his fakeclaim. He wasnt that wrong.

I don't remember that. I remember him basically saying, "well, that brought reactions. Enjoy!"

Yup and it was DGB that hammered on TSQ to rage quit. That was one awesome game

[Lamont_Cranston]

Right because my thought processes revolved around either scum having

no

death notes (having to get them from the Shinigamis) or

one

which would allow them to night kill as a group.

But you sounded

certain

you would get one...

Well to be honest I think of deathnotes as exchagable between shinigami and Kira's. And at the time I was certain I would get one, my logic failed.

The rules don't mention that, although I understand from reading that that's how it worked in the series. The rules have led me to believe Shinigamis have to be

killed

in order to give up their notes.

OMGOSH! Do you think the scum have been told the names of shinigami?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok, I've reviewed each player and besides ABR I also would like to point out:

Semi

started out strong but I feel like we haven't heard from him lately; I'd like to hear more from him on the latest game developments.

Seraphim

hardcore lurking. Started a pre-Mastin-death analysis and that's it...

I have found Spoilum to be very helpful.

I am currently suspecting

Kai, Zee & Budja

for posts about notes that are genuinely suspicious.

I do not like this post:

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Why does this matteeeeerrrrr...lets see whos acting scummy okay?

I kinda like Philly but his analysis doesn't ring as true as Spoilum's does.

[Lamont_Cranston]

2. The human who touches the Death Note can recognize the image and voice of its original owner, a god of death, even if the human is not the owner of the note.

So, since it is assumed one death note is in possession of the scum,

ALL

scum know the identity of one shinigami.

1. One god of death is allowed to pass on Death Notes to only 3 humans at a time.

2. It is possible for a single god of death to hand out up to 6 Death Notes, for example, by handing 3 humans 2 Death Notes each.

3. In other words, one human could own all 6 Death Notes.

Interesting info.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Yes. But he claims to have a death note. As per the rules, we must gain and destroy all death notes, and vigging him forces shinigami to drop death note as per the rules.

Are you claiming this is not pro-town, Zazie?
I'm confused.

Lynching is useful because we can see how people interact when voting on the lynch. Since scum have interactions, while sks do not, lynching scum is better.
It doesn't change the fact that Sks have to be eliminated. Scum hold a higher priority for the lynch is all. I'd rather not waste the lynch when a vig can do the job. Vigging scum and lynching an sk, while good, is a wasted opportunity, since, if done the other way around, we could have studied the reactions on the wagon and have a better chance of finding scum. And of course, there is also the matter I've already explained about mafia being closer than sks to winning.

Also, you claim I'm "active lurking", but I'm waiting on lamont to answer my questions.

You are starting to piss me off. I've answered your questions all game long, from the fricking beginning. I am catching up now but I will post all of my answers to you in one nice big post (copying and pasting them )

I'm sorry but even though I know it would be easier for you, I can't PM them to you it's against the rules. [/sarcasm]

*FACEPALM*

[Lamont_Cranston]

And that active lurking defence is bad, as you asked one question towards Lamont which was asked this morning. Lamont has only one post in this topic afterwards.
So, what about the other days?

Please note that I

answered

his query after he asked it (as I've done every time he's asked me a question). Still catching up...

[Lamont_Cranston]

4. I'd like to get back to regular scumhunting, because that whole death note speculation section really confused me.

Your win condition is supposed to revolve around this...

*FACEPALM*

[Lamont_Cranston]

What, you'd prefer if I asked for a name and picture claim? : D

I'd prefer if you didn't ask for a name claim in a game with a Theme where your name and face being known by the killer is enough for you to die.

You want I should go first as a sign of good faith?

Mega-no thanks.

FoS Gorrad

[Lamont_Cranston]

I've spent a lot of time on this setup, and I don't want to take even a slight chance that it will be ruined by stupidity or cheating.

I am being fairly draconian, but I have the right to do so. There will be other games. Even as we speak, there are good themed games in signups.

I'd rather not play outguess the Mod here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I fakeclaimed fakeclaiming after I real claimed.

LMAO! Hilarious!

[Lamont_Cranston]

Just some general notes for Magnus' reading pleasure:

1) My attack was against a playstyle that produced a day vig that turned out to be a fake so that whole argument is FAIL.

2) Sorry but you had no case against me to vote me that early and so the only answer I had is "RVS"; deal with it.

3) There is nothing wrong with me posting a brief overview of my reads very early in the game.

4) Yes people sucking up to Mastin were acting in an anti-town manner and I said as much consistently. He was guilty of crap play and was hurting the town.

5) My Kise case was

very

good. It was just wrong. I think the reason you can't see that is because you are blinded by your emotional ego which for some reason just has it in for me.

6) Please get up to speed on Death Notes. They are an important part of this game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Here it is for the

third

time:

Ok, I've reviewed each player and besides ABR I also would like to point out:

Semi

started out strong but I feel like we haven't heard from him lately; I'd like to hear more from him on the latest game developments.

Seraphim

hardcore lurking. Started a pre-Mastin-death analysis and that's it...

I have found Spoilum to be very helpful.

I am currently suspecting

Kai, Zee & Budja

for posts about notes that are genuinely suspicious.

I do not like this post:

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Why does this matteeeeerrrrr...lets see whos acting scummy okay?

I kinda like Philly but his analysis doesn't ring as true as Spoilum's does.

[Lamont_Cranston]

1) My attack was against a playstyle that produced a day vig that turned out to be a fake so that whole argument is FAIL.

2) Sorry but you had no case against me to vote me that early and so the only answer I had is "RVS"; deal with it.

3) There is nothing wrong with me posting a brief overview of my reads very early in the game.

4) Yes people sucking up to Mastin were acting in an anti-town manner and I said as much consistently. He was guilty of crap play and was hurting the town.

5) My Kise case was very good. It was just wrong. I think the reason you can't see that is because you are blinded by your emotional ego which for some reason just has it in for me.

6) Please get up to speed on Death Notes. They are an important part of this game.

Do I take this as your resposne?

4. Prove it. Sounds extremely opinionated.

This is obvious, no proof required.

5. This is ad hom. Prove your case was good.

Really, its up to you to review my case and say why its bad. You've already quoted it and the merits of it stand for themselves. All you've said is its "opportunistic"; I'm really close to creating an "opportunistic BW-ing" section on my wiki because of "attacks" like this. Deal with the merits of the case please.

6. I'm confused. I agree with gorrad that it would be needlessly complicated for them to be anything more than means to commit nks. I think the speculation is baseless conjecture, and we haven't seen any indication that the death notes work one way or the other. In other words, using speculation about death notes for scumtells doesn't work. Its a waste of time and space.

Well, I strongly disagree. Death Notes make scum into Kira -- 'nuff said.

I am currently suspecting Kai, Zee & Budja for posts about notes that are genuinely suspicious.

Go into detail on this.

Gladly. I've been meaning to. The posts in question on these three to follow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Kai

:

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post,

Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

I agree with Spoil here. Kai knows the Death Note series in depth. A key feature of a Death Note is to be able to choose the kill method. Why is he denying this here?

Budja

:

I find it unlikely that Mastin's death was deathnote related as he was shot. This would require control of the shooter which while possible seems much less likely than an ordinary kill.

1) I don't know how familiar Budja is with Death Note but once again this ignores a central aspect of the notes.

2) Where does this issue of "control of a shooter" come from?

Zee

:

Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?

I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.

Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.

If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.

Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.

I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.

You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.

This seems terribly defensive.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You've already admitted the case was flawed.

No the case was

very

good and therefore not opportunistic.

The fact of the matter is that you were trying to push a flawed case and backed off in a hurry as soon as a different flaw than meta was pointed out. [color]

Yup and I'm proud of it. My case was very good but it wasn't true due to the fact that Kise had a terribly flawed view of the rules; something I had not taken into account but was pointed out to me.[/color]

Well, I strongly disagree. Death Notes make scum into Kira -- 'nuff said.

...
Did I say this wasn't the case? Why are you changing the subject? The subject was the speculation about the gameplay mechanics of the death notes and that speculation's usefulness to the game.

No this IS the case. Why are YOU changing the subject. Get with it.

Finally, you must still establish that everyone on mastin's wagon was pro-town, as per your coments earlier.

Nope. Once again you are wrong. Its basic BW analysis. You rarely have all the scum on the bandwagon and with a CRAP PLAYER like Mastin, I prefer to hunt OFF the BW and the fact is there ARE scum off of it. Now, who would be most obviously scum off the wagon... Well,

how about someone that suspected those on his wagon BEFORE HE FLIPPED TOWN.

[Lamont_Cranston]

You've already admitted the case was flawed.

No the case was

very

good and therefore not opportunistic.

The fact of the matter is that you were trying to push a flawed case and backed off in a hurry as soon as a different flaw than meta was pointed out.

Yup and I'm proud of it. My case was very good but it wasn't true due to the fact that Kise had a terribly flawed view of the rules; something I had not taken into account but was pointed out to me.

Well, I strongly disagree. Death Notes make scum into Kira -- 'nuff said.

...
Did I say this wasn't the case? Why are you changing the subject? The subject was the speculation about the gameplay mechanics of the death notes and that speculation's usefulness to the game.

No this IS the case. Why are YOU changing the subject. Get with it.

Finally, you must still establish that everyone on mastin's wagon was pro-town, as per your coments earlier.

Nope. Once again you are wrong. Its basic BW analysis. You rarely have all the scum on the bandwagon and with a CRAP PLAYER like Mastin, I prefer to hunt OFF the BW and the fact is there ARE scum off of it. Now, who would be most obviously scum off the wagon... Well,

how about someone that suspected those on his wagon BEFORE HE FLIPPED TOWN.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think mastin was shot, with a gun, under no influence of any outside force, other than the one who pulled the trigger.

Death Note kill result will most likely be "died of a heart attack" If no kills or a majority of kills occur where this is not the case, then I might reconsider. But it seems needlessly complex to follow the actual Death note's rules in this game.

Why are scum more likely to hold this opinion than town? In other words, under what grounds do you legetimize this as more than a difference of opinion?

Simply, we can be almost certain that scum possess a Death Note at this time. If Death Notes give dayvig power then it is likely that scum killed Mastin and would want to hide that ability, hence they would more likely to deny it than town would.

The question is why are they, and now you, denying a central aspect of how Death Notes work?

[Lamont_Cranston]

How do you know that scum were not on the wagon? Scum are almost always on the wagon. Especially with poor players. Although poor is a matter of opinion.

I said that not ALL the scum are on his wagon and I PREFER to hunt off the wagon when there is a CRAP PLAYER because the town have the most justification for their votes.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry but its my case too. I found it on a reread of you.

[Lamont_Cranston]

In this game, it is possible to obtain a Death Note in several ways. If a player possessing a Death Note is lynched, a random member of the lynch mob receives the Death Note. If a player possessing a Death Note is killed, the killer (if there are multiple killers, one is chosen at random) receives the Death Note.

On ZEEnon:
-No Mastin vote, while he did vote him in Open 145. His reason was that Mastin didn't joke in this game about his claim, while he did so in the other game. However, looking at his first post in this game, he clearly joked about being scum. Yet, no vote.
-Another reason according to ZEEnon why he didn't vote, was because Kai pointed out that Mastin had done this before. However, the time between the posts from Kai and ZEE (as already pointed out) shows that this is very likely a lie, and the second quote he gives from Kai in which Kai states Mastin has done this before is after ZEEnon could have voted Mastin.
ZEEnon als says that nobody had stated in Open 145 that Mastin has done this before, which is not true.
-He claimed to have believed Mastin's shinigami claim. Yet, he didn't vote him.
-Later, Mastin states that he joked about being a shinigami. Again a joke, but once again no vote from ZEEnon.
-His switch from thinking that Mastin was a shinigami to town after Mastin got shot.

Ok, so you're saying

scum would rather have a shinigami be NK'ed by the scum than lynched during the day

?

That is an excellent scum tell.

[Lamont_Cranston]

The following people said we should not vote Mastin b/c it is useless or some derivation thereof:

Budja -- "its a waste if he's unkillable"
ABR -- "he's prob jester lets vote elsewhere"
Kise -- "doesn't like random note drop if he's lynched"

Those are three that I have in my notes. I feel I could find more if I looked harder...

[Lamont_Cranston]

You know the worst of the three I mentioned is ABR. I'm getting the feeling he should know better because the Jester role is pretty much out of the question isn't it? There have been a few people (2-3) that have mentioned their suspicion with ABR over this; I think they should get some townie points.l

[Lamont_Cranston]

ZazieR, me voting him in Open 145 was just a joke because he claimed scum.
I interpreted his self vote in that game as a joke, and I voted him to fuel it.
His

reaction

to my vote was the problem.
He freaked out, posted a wall-of-text that I didn't bother to read, and then disappeared.

I have a question. Would this be a proper explanation of a difference between this game and Open 145?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Case is there, based upon posts you've already made, so you don't have to worry that there's no case .

Your case exists entirely of my varying reaction to Mastin's self-vote.
I already explained that Kairyuu alluded to the fact that this is a regular habit of Mastin's,
while in Polygamist Mafia nobody mentioned that. You can go see for yourself whether or not that is the truth.

Also, does this help or actually hurt his defense?

[Lamont_Cranston]

The following people said we should not vote Mastin b/c it is useless or some derivation thereof:

Budja -- "its a waste if he's unkillable"
ABR -- "he's prob jester lets vote elsewhere"
Kise -- "doesn't like random note drop if he's lynched"

Those are three that I have in my notes. I feel I could find more if I looked harder...

You forgot me. I didn't want to lynch Mastin because I didn't think he was scum.

Yes, as I said my notes are not perfect and I knew it. I have noticed you've received some flak from a few people and I didn't understand why. For the same reason you thought Mastin was town, he needed to be gone.

[Lamont_Cranston]

ZazieR, me voting him in Open 145 was just a joke because he claimed scum.
I interpreted his self vote in that game as a joke, and I voted him to fuel it.
His

reaction

to my vote was the problem.
He freaked out, posted a wall-of-text that I didn't bother to read, and then disappeared.

I have a question. Would this be a proper explanation of a difference between this game and Open 145?

Case is there, based upon posts you've already made, so you don't have to worry that there's no case .

Your case exists entirely of my varying reaction to Mastin's self-vote.
I already explained that Kairyuu alluded to the fact that this is a regular habit of Mastin's,
while in Polygamist Mafia nobody mentioned that. You can go see for yourself whether or not that is the truth.

Also, does this help or actually hurt his defense?

I've read Zee in ISO and those two questions is all I have.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok so then we'vbe established that for some reason he has

purposely

not voted Mastin here and his excuses for not doing so are very poor and false.

This obviuosly looks bad, but what does it actually mean?

The statement from him, "

I see why you are doing it and I'll trust your judgement even though I may not agree with it

" needs to be explained.

@Zee:

Please explain exactly what you meant by that statement.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, unless something more convincing comes up besides the Myk wagon, I really think we should force ABR to post more. I think his Jester comment looks really suspicious towards a possible shinigami and he is actively lurking; it appears he is following along but only infrequently posting very short posts.

FoS ABR

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, unless something more convincing comes up besides the Myk wagon, I really think we should force ABR to post more. I think his Jester comment looks really suspicious towards a possible shinigami and he is actively lurking; it appears he is following along but only infrequently posting very short posts.

FoS ABR

What about a ZEEnon or Magnus wagon?
Also, looking at your posts, you haven't addressed the Myko case at all. So what's your opinion of it?

I'm very sorry to all who are vigorously pursuing the Myko case. You have all done alot of good work and have posted a good number of inconsistencies in his play.

However, I note the following:

1) English is not Myk's first language. I think this makes his points look a little weaker than they normally would be; his defenses have less of an impact, his attacks are less convincing.

2) My read on him is as someone who is sincere but inexperienced. I don't get any malicious intent from his inconsistencies.

3) I think he will flip town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hey, you flaked last time in a newbe game you replaced in.

Wow two posts in the last 10 minutes. That is an improvement!

[Lamont_Cranston]

@ABR:

Would you please explain how the Jester role could possibly relevant in this game? And if you admit it isn't relevant, why did you throw it out there towards Mastin??

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because Mastin claimed scum and asked to be killed. It isn't relevant anymore.

Do you mean the question isn't relevant or the Jester role isn't relvant, which?

Because I don't see how you can make a case for Gelus putting a Jester into this game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Its not like I really thought he was a jester, I just didn't want Mastin to be killed by town forces. The role isn't relevant anymore because no one has since claimed scum.

So you do continue to assert that the Jester comment is relevant when Mastin is alive.

Please comment on how this makes any sense for this game in the light of the following information:

I've spent a lot of time on this setup, and I don't want to take even a slight chance that it will be ruined by stupidity

viewtopic.php?p=1237959#1237959
viewtopic.php?p=1237960#1237960
viewtopic.php?p=1257327#1257327
viewtopic.php?p=1273555#1273555
viewtopic.php?p=1273734#1273734

Seeing the above how can you now say that it makes sense for a jester role to be relevant here?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Its not like I really thought he was a jester, I just didn't want Mastin to be killed by town forces. The role isn't relevant anymore because no one has since claimed scum.

Whoops. Ok so you've retracted the jester comment entirely.

Umm, ya what Zaze said.

[Lamont_Cranston]

1) English is not Myk's first language. I think this makes his points look a little weaker than they normally would be; his defenses have less of an impact, his attacks are less convincing.

2) My read on him is as someone who is sincere but inexperienced. I don't get any malicious intent from his inconsistencies.

That is his standard scum play from what I've seen, he plays a lot less like that as town. I've played with him in two games where he's been scum (one where he was scum with me) and one where he was town and I've seen another game where he was scum. I probably have a preponderance of scum data for him but I still get a somewhat scummy vibe from the way he's played this game.

Can you give me a link of one of his town games? If he plays better I will see it very easily...

[Lamont_Cranston]

The following people said we should not vote Mastin b/c it is useless or some derivation thereof:

Budja -- "its a waste if he's unkillable"
ABR -- "he's prob jester lets vote elsewhere"
Kise -- "doesn't like random note drop if he's lynched"

Those are three that I have in my notes. I feel I could find more if I looked harder...

You forgot me. I didn't want to lynch Mastin because I didn't think he was scum.

Yes, as I said my notes are not perfect and I knew it. I have noticed you've received some flak from a few people and I didn't understand why. For the same reason you thought Mastin was town, he needed to be gone.

You also forgot ZEEnon

Zeenon actually said we shouldn't lynch Mastin? On my ISO of him I only saw where he backed off of him with the question that I bolded earlier....

[Lamont_Cranston]

well, why not? no information, and

maybe we get lucky

. Anyway, there seem to be no bad consequenses.

unvote vote natirasha (L-1)

Here you have some wheels

populartajo wrote:
mykonian wrote:
well, why not? no information, and maybe we get lucky. Anyway, there seem to be no bad consequenses.

unvote vote natirasha (L-1)

Here you have some wheels

You just dont get it, do you?
Since you seem very comfortable with his death, will you be willing to hammer him?

I think indeed that I don't get it.

sure

unvote

populartajo wrote:
mykonian wrote:
sure

unvote

Unvote Vote : Mykonian.

could you explain what is happening here?

am I right when there are at least some people that really want to lynch Nati, and that there are some people that voted him first, more a pressure vote, to get nati to play responsible?

and am I right that you vote me for being shifty?

I see what I missed about that question: Yes on that moment I would have hammered. No I won't do it now. Normally I would also say that lynching for a null-tell would be useless, as I have learned that till now. That's why I stayed off the wagon for a long time. But people kept going on about lynching nat, and I could see sense in that course of action. Why wait with lynching an antitown player?

When you come with that question, "you don't get it, do you?" there is only one answer: I don't get it, I have no idea what to do. I don't know what I think of the other team (if there is one) because there are arguments for both sides of the problem. And it seems nat solves the problem for me now.

It goes on and on this way and this is Myk as town. This definitely is the same way he is playing here. Ok, somebody give me some scum games to read...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

^^Why you forgot him

Ok so Zee is either:

A) Making a genuine mistake early in the game

OR

B) Deliberately trying to obfuscate on how notes work

I think B is

FAIL

. Wouldn't it be too obvious?

What arguments do you have for B?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think GIEFF is the obvious serial killer. He has information, but wants to lynch the mafia!

vote GIEFF

Panzerjager wrote:
@Dourgrim: SK has only one piece of info the town doesn't, and that is that SK exist. He has no information on who is scum and who is not. So Mykonian is simply saying, He wants to lynch Mafia, he must be SK lynch him. Everyone should be wanting to lynch Mafia. Also, it makes more sense to go after mafia then the SK, because SK has a chance to cross kill Mafiates.

@Goatrevolt: He is calling GIEFF anti-town, for simply wanting to lynch mafia. Therefore, mykonian is mafia.

damn it, you got me. That thinking does however work when there are two scumgroups, but I made a mistake there

But personally I would lynch the SK, as it gives you more mislynches. If GIEFF would be the SK, then we should go for him.

GIEFF wrote:
A related question; why have people assumed that if I really did know who the mafia was, that would make me SK? That assumption makes no sense to me.

yeah, yeah, I know. Craplogic and such. unvote

random vote GIEFF because he had the last post.

ting =) wrote:
@Myko.
Post 55 and 58. If it was a random vote, why should craplogic even be an issue? Why apologize for faulty logic if it wasn't even a serious vote? Also, why'd you go back to random voting in post 55?


to show it was a random vote. Nothing changed in post 55, only my reaction on the fact that the assumption that the SK would know something about the setup was wrong

I think I should always appoligize for bad play. It simply is not helping, because people may think you are scummy. Even when it was for a random vote, then you have the right to point out that the reason is wrong.

Dourgrim wrote:
mykonian wrote:
How do you ever get to the point that this must be distancing? Someone makes a valid point, and probably the one that created some discussion, and you manage to make from possibly the most protown statement till now a scumtell.
I honestly don't know what this paragraph means. No sarcasm here, I've just read it four times and can't decipher it. Maybe I'm just tired, but can you please explain it again?

I think I'm the one that is tired. I'm sorry, but I'm going to try to explain tomorrow. I don't think it will get any better tonight.

Goatrevolt wrote:
Dourgrim wrote:
Also, you seem to be arguing that only logic carefully explained in the thread is a good reason to vote for someone. Am I really the only one who doesn't always expect perfect play and sometimes votes from the gut here? If so, that makes me kinda sad for the game.

I feel this way as well. I don't think good logic is an indication that someone is pro-town. Nor do I feel that bad logic indicates scum.

If you merely lynch the person who is wrong the most or has the worst logic, then it's simply a game of "'let's kill off the worst player" which really says nothing about whether or not he's actually scum. If the scum are the ones with the strongest grasp on logic, they'll win.

You are right. You need to look at what the people assume to see if there is something going wrong.

Well, I don't really see any differences between Myk as scum or town. Both games look exactly like this one.

I need Spock to give me a

strong data analysis

here for this game...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

^^Why you forgot him

Ok so Zee is either:

A) Making a genuine mistake early in the game

OR

B) Deliberately trying to obfuscate on how notes work

I think B is

FAIL

. Wouldn't it be too obvious?

What arguments do you have for B?

I don't understand what you mean with B). Could you rephrase it?

Well he is obviously wrong when he says we shouldn't lynch Mastin because he is a shingami. There is a very good chance that he would have a death note.

So the question is, why doesn't Zee take this into account?

Its either

A)

he is just genuinely mistaken or

B)

he's trying to lead the town away from doing the right thing (lynching Mastin) so the scum can kill him and get the note.

My point on B is that wouldn't it be too obvious that is what he is doing?

Hmmm, well now that I think about it...

I can see where he could do this as scum and I really don't buy A. I do see your case here now.

I am anxious to here more from Zee on this...

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL ya in Medieval Mafia the talk of the "Zwet Wagon" went on for many pages.

However, I dont advocate his claiming and I don't believe his claim either.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, unless something more convincing comes up besides the Myk wagon, I really think we should force ABR to post more. I think his Jester comment looks really suspicious towards a possible shinigami and he is actively lurking; it appears he is following along but only infrequently posting very short posts.

FoS ABR

What about a ZEEnon or Magnus wagon?
Also, looking at your posts, you haven't addressed the Myko case at all. So what's your opinion of it?

I'm very sorry to all who are vigorously pursuing the Myko case. You have all done alot of good work and have posted a good number of inconsistencies in his play.

However, I note the following:

1) English is not Myk's first language. I think this makes his points look a little weaker than they normally would be; his defenses have less of an impact, his attacks are less convincing.

2) My read on him is as someone who is sincere but inexperienced. I don't get any malicious intent from his inconsistencies.

3)

I think he will flip town.

I have no idea what he'll flip.

/fixed

[Lamont_Cranston]

Aha. Well reasoned.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

^^Why you forgot him

Unless you really can put more backing that he belived that he was what he claimed, and played as such, this isnt scummy. If anything this is more of an IIOA post. LC is misinterpreting it pretty badly. To me this is the same as saying 'zwet claims to be that guys wife'.

If he said "Mastin claims to be shin and I believe it", we would be having a different discussion. I do not see anything that suggests this though.

ORLY? And what of his statement "I see what you're doing and I trust your judgement even though I disagree with it"? Doesn't this mean he sees that Mastin is Shinigami? Seems pretty clear to me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Been busy - sorry for flaking to start off with, currently on 40/44 - you guys post too fast >.<

POST OPINIONS ON THE FIRST 40

Ya baby rock it!

[Lamont_Cranston]

on zeenon

Ah, I see why you did that now.
Not sure if it will achieve anything, but i'll trust your judgement.

Yes, this is the post which shows how Zee knew Matin was 3rd party.

[Lamont_Cranston]

That's right I can vouch for that; I saw him do it in Medieval Mafia.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Was Mastin town or maf' in 145?

Anyway, ZEE is deliberately avoiding answering his questions. Lynching him would be slightly experimental, but I'm down for it.

Mastin was

scum

in 145. This is why Zee's play here is suspicious.

[Lamont_Cranston]

[Lamont_Cranston]

I can see gorrad, seems to be a lurker.

I'm trying to keep up with this game, and failing miserably. Give me a bit.

This.

Everytime I check this game there is like 4-5 new pages. Guys, STOP posting when you dont have anything important to say.

Im starting to realize how annoying can multiposting be. Zazier and others please stop.

I propose something. We have already some decent suspects. What about if we concentrate discussion in these suspects and finally decide a vote and start railing discussion/reactions and such. Really, there are big odds of finding scum in the people not voting at this stage of the game.

mykonian - 5 (LlamaFluff, cateraction, Spolium, ortolan, Kise)
zwetschenwasser - 3 (populartajo, Albert B. Rampage, Benmage)
ZEEnon - 2 (WeyounsLastClone, PhilyEc)
Gorrad - 2 (Kmd4390, MrBuddyLee)
Lamont_Cranston - 2 (magnus_orion, Kairyuu)


Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Jebus, Gorrad, semioldguy, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, Starbuck, mykonian

Ill comment on these five when I have more time. Prob tomorrow. Just thought I would let you know my proposition.

Your votecount is incorrect as KMD is not voting for Gorrad anymore (even though Gorrad & Jebus are ALT's ).

I will defend Zazier here as the multi-post method is very effective with her scum-hunting method.

People need to read moar.

Also, I have possible-scum that are not on your list Tajo. No doubt the non-voters need to whey in though...

I can't get a read on Myk, I need a strong data analysis showing him to be scum.

I'm conflicted with Zwet because I believe he's lying but I don't thing he is scum...

Zee

is suspicious but has not yet whey-ed in on the accusations against them.

Gorrad

has

volunteered

to name claim -- this sounds Shinigami-ish with a weird win condition. Definitely in my top voting list.

Lamont is obvtown and besought by women internationally.

Now for possible scum not on your list:

ABR

made a very irresponsible jester comment and has been active lurking. He retreated from the statement in a very odd way and I don't think the issue is resolved against him because he has disappeared again.

Both Kai/Magnus have been left off the list. Magnus appears somewhat townie to me with minor inconsistencies whereas

Kai

has acted very starngely towards Mastin in a way that is anti-town. So

Kai

is on my list.

Lurkers: Jebus, MBL, Seraph, Stepho
Scummy: Zee, Gorrad, ABR, Kai

I'm down with any of the above 8 until further notice.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LMAO!

[Lamont_Cranston]

vote zwet

Its not like I really thought he was a jester,

I just didn't want Mastin to be killed by town forces

. The role isn't relevant anymore because no one has since claimed scum.

Uhm, what? Explain the bolded.

...

[Lamont_Cranston]

He has gone on a silence strike in honor of my life. You're not going to get anything out of him for the time being.

We can get plenty out of him by putting him at L-3 or above...

Votecount
mykonian - 5 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

, Spolium, ortolan, Kise)
ZEEnon - 4 (WeyounsLastClone, PhilyEc, mykonian, Kmd4390)
zwetschenwasser - 3 (populartajo, Albert B. Rampage, Benmage)
Lamont_Cranston - 2 (magnus_orion, Kairyuu)
Gorrad - 1 (MrBuddyLee)
magnus_orion - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Kairyuu - 1 (Lamont_Cranston)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Jebus, Gorrad,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, Starbuck

Humans are such...ugly creatures.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

ABR Summary

:

Mastin is a jester. Let's lynch Zwet. Oh ya don't worry about the jester comment, I just didn't want the town to kill Mastin... I don't need to explain anything, I'm staying quiet until we lynch Zwet.

Anybody see anything wrong with this??

[Lamont_Cranston]

I thought he was town, not 2nd, 3rd or 99th party.

Then why did you find it necessary to say that you didn't want him to be strung up by "town forces"?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Lurkers: Jebus, MBL, Seraph, Stepho
Scummy: Zee, Gorrad, ABR, Kai

And I am not sure, at this stage, why Gorrad is considered scummy; rather than, for example, a lurker.

I'd say Gorrad is considered scummy because he braugth up the idea of a massclaim combined with his erratic behavior.

And once again, he

volunteered

to name-claim. He is

very

familiar with the setup and it sounds so strange; I'm getting the Shinigami vibe here.

Pssst: Lynching me is fail here folks.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am willing to lynch Zee but the only thing that bothers me is that he hasn't responded to defend himself.

He obviously knew that Mastin was 3rd party and yet expressly didn't want people to vote him.

Since he is an experienced player that definitely needs explanation.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well that leaves two options (based on your assertion):

1) Lynch him on his behavior thus far without an explanation.

2) Wait for him to replace out.

Right now we have Wey, you & Stepho voting him. I'd like to hear from some more town players on option 1 before I switch my vote.

Btw, we have over two weeks here right?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Unvote, vote Lamont

I'm only voting you because I don't like you. No other reason.

I actually admire your playstyle but I het lurkers which is what you are doing. Why should you be allowed to get away with it?

And you haven't explained about Mastin not being killed by "town forces"...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I thought he was town, not 2nd, 3rd or 99th party.

Then why did you find it necessary to say that you didn't want him to be strung up by "town forces"?

Because I didn't think he was scum. What is it with you and this circular questioning that goes nowhere?

Ok there are ARE three factions in this game right?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ort, I've never played with ABR.

How are those town reads obvious when Zwet and Lamont are getting votes and ABR still needs to explain the difference between his position on Mastin and his position on Zwet.

Gorrad is scummy for name-fishing.

---------------------------

Unvote, Vote Gorrad

. Reading the last couple pages, this lynch may have some hope. People seem to suspect him more than I thought.

Mastin is a good player. Lynching him is bad for the town when he is on our side.

Zwet is a bit of a dumb clown. Its always good to lynch him when you are town.

What made you so sure he was on our side?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Why is it that everybodyt thought he could be a Shinigami but you completely leave that out of all your thoughts about him?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Because you could NK him and be 100% certain of getting the note, whereas if he is lynched one of the villagers might get the note.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok, well I'm done with suspecting ABR. I hope he contributes more.

Since Kai & I appear not be on speaking terms, I will let Zaze handle the issues concerning him.

Unvote, Vote Gorrad

[Lamont_Cranston]

So I'm curious as to why everyone is still questioning Mastin's allegiance.


Also Phily, Gorrad (for the bit he was actually posting) was being rather scummy. No one that I've seen is voting him because KMD is I actually meant to put my vote at the bottom of one of my really long catch up posts and forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

Vote: Gorrad

He pushed for name claims hoping to break the game. Thats it. Scum wouldnt do that, scum wouldnt make such an obvious move. He was later told what that would make killing people off more easy for scum concerning knowing roles and he gave us an 'ooooooooooooh' basically. Gorrad aint scum.

Because he is so experienced he wouldn't make such a mistake. Something must be motivating him; like maybe a Shinigami win condition??

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Gorrad:

Because he is so experienced he wouldn't make such a mistake. Something must be motivating him; like maybe a Shinigami win condition??

Magnus:

Logical fallacy

Philly:

Or he just wanted to draw out scum who agreed with the idea?

C'mon you two, Gorrad can answer for himself.

Votecount
mykonian - 5 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

, Spolium, ortolan, Kise)
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (magnus_orion, Kairyuu, Albert B. Rampage, Gorrad, MrBuddyLee)
ZEEnon - 4 (WeyounsLastClone, PhilyEc, mykonian, Stephoscope)
Gorrad - 3 (Kmd4390, Lamont_Cranston, Starbuck)
zwetschenwasser - 2 (populartajo, Benmage)
magnus_orion - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Jebus - 1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not voting: Jebus,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, ZEEnon

Light told me to bring this [apple].

WHOA!

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw, the Myk wagon is easy. I think we've seen how his behavior here is a null tell. Its the same as when he's town or mafi.

If the case is so great, I'm still waiting for someone to give me strong reasons why he is scummy besides his erratic logic on various issues (which is a null tell).

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Llama:

Btw, on Zee, you never spoke to this:

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

^^Why you forgot him

Unless you really can put more backing that he belived that he was what he claimed, and played as such, this isnt scummy. If anything this is more of an IIOA post. LC is misinterpreting it pretty badly. To me this is the same as saying 'zwet claims to be that guys wife'.

If he said "Mastin claims to be shin and I believe it", we would be having a different discussion. I do not see anything that suggests this though.

ORLY? And what of his statement "I see what you're doing and I trust your judgement even though I disagree with it"? Doesn't this mean he sees that Mastin is Shinigami? Seems pretty clear to me.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Post #728 for your reading pleasure:

You are ruling out the possibility of scum day-talking? Also why is the fact this is day one rather than any other day relevant to whether you might be able to daytalk as scum? Also why do you find me pro-town?

I do rule out day-talking for mafia. I can't say I've been in a game where mafia were allowed to do that during day phases. And the relevance in this being day 1 is because I am trying to insinuate that we had no night zero, so scum should not have had any NP to talk to each other.

The reason I find you pro-town is due to your critical thinking, and how you don't use it sparingly. You have no 2nd thoughts (it seems) when it comes to putting other players in the spotlight, so this gives me the impression that you're not watching anyone else's back.

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

It's a possibility, but not a definite. I say possibility because Mastin was killed by someone, but there's no evidence to suggest whether this was the work of a Kira or a vig. Until we are able to prove anything, it's perfectly healthy to consider the probability of scum starting off with death notes, as well as the probability that they don't start off with them. However, unless someone here is a Kira WITH a death note, then that's the only way they can be certain that Kira DO start off with death notes.

Kise

<- This guy is different to your average scummer in my opinion. I've not liked one of his posts but due to poor logic and dodging questions.

But.. I've already addressed all questions directed at me.. Check out page 27; I answered everyone accordingly.

populartajo

<- Quite quickly proves himself to be town. I like his posts so far. Town read.

Gorrad

<- Town read, hes looking towards my suspect Magnus alot.

Pop contradicts himself by saying Steph is townie for believing both Mastin & Lamont to be pro-town, but then he notices I say practically the same thing about Lamont & Mastin and I get a scum-vibe from him.. He points out similar viewpoints from Steph & I, yet he thinks of only one of us as having a town-vibe.

Gorrad has only made three posts total, with two of them being very short

opinions

/information-bits, rather than being evaluations of scum behavior. This warrants a town-read, how?

@tajo - Please do respond to my concern on page 27 when you get a chance.

HoS: Benmage

I warned you.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I realized something too that should be benificial if we get to late game. When someone is lynched, their note goes to a random person on the wagon. Town destroys notes. If we lynch pro-kira and their note is not destroyed, there must be scum on the wagon.

Nice.

Also on Zee I'm not voting him yet because I'm waiting for that explanation.

Btw, Semi has found a really interesting scum tell on Kise...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok the case on Zee is that he knew Mastin was 3rd party and instead of advocating his lynch told everyone that he should not be lynched. This could be a scum ploy in that scum would rather NK a note holder than lynch one because they are 100% sure of getting the note.

Zee is an experienced player and his attitude towards Mastin is called into question. The following paraphrase is from him:

"Ok, Mastin I understand why you are doing what you are and I trust your judgement even though I disagree with it."

He then went on to discourage Mastin's lynch.

This is what needs explaining.

[Lamont_Cranston]

If you are claiming scum, I want your role name please.

Not scum. A shinigami; I'm not saying which.

Why are you choosing to reveal this to us?

I'm the kind of guy who'd want the town to win as an anti-town role.

On a side note, why haven't you accepted my EM friend request?

I haven't had a chance to get onto EM recently, Zee. Real life and all.

Ah, I see why you did that now.
Not sure if it will achieve anything, but i'll trust your judgement.

So much winking in this post.

!

Zee, you just changed your avatar. :/

I change my avatar every new game I join. Weird, huh?
I'm so sad that I can't use my normally coloured font this game.

Like I said I'm not voting Zee becuase I am waiting for an explanation.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Below is the referenced "over-defensive-much" post by Zee:

Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?

I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.
Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.
If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.
Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.
I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I agree it sounds terrible, I mean the whole post. That defense was not called for at all. The only reason I'm not voting for him is because he hasn't come back to explain.

In fact, like ABR, I'm going to say Gorrad wouldn't be that stupid as scum.

Unvote, Vote Zee

[Lamont_Cranston]

3)

I think he will flip town.

I have no idea what he'll flip.

Why did you ''fix'' this part?

Because the only reason I see that he has a wagon is because of iniconsistent logic. Based on his meta he behaves the same way as town or mafi. It is because I saw him do the same thing as mafi that makes me thinnk he

couild

actually be mafi, but I hold his behavior as a null tell.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

^^Why you forgot him

Unless you really can put more backing that he belived that he was what he claimed, and played as such, this isnt scummy. If anything this is more of an IIOA post. LC is misinterpreting it pretty badly. To me this is the same as saying 'zwet claims to be that guys wife'.

If he said "Mastin claims to be shin and I believe it", we would be having a different discussion. I do not see anything that suggests this though.

If ZEE never explains what he meant, I want to hear it from you what you think he meant. As I''m reading here and from the responses he has given that he believed Mastin''s claim.

QFT.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Screw it. If you guys are going to post anyway, Lamont, I demand you tell me why you were ignoring entire sections ofmy posts against you, and why you refuse to acknowledge that you did. You yourself agreed ignoring people was a scumtell, correct?

Lamont, what have you to say about this?

I addressed his arguments satisfactorily (such as they are ).

[Lamont_Cranston]

We're lynching Lamont. That will happen. He's scummy as fuck, and is only suspecting me because I accused him of being scum, called Mastin town, and was right.

Also, note how he completely ignored my entire first catch-up post, when a large chunk of it was directed at him. Scummy McScumscum needs to die, and quickly too.

Add this as well to the above post.

Lamont

, what do you have to say?

I say that they both are buddies in RL, they have decided they want to lynch me and regardless of what I say it will be scummy. They will deny it but it is true.

The post he referenced is such a wall-o-crap "case", I didn't see how anyone could take it seriously.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Can you link to those posts so that I can look at them when I get back home?

Just ISO Magnus and you can see my responses, mostly in blue.

[Lamont_Cranston]

No I didn't say you were conspiring outside the game.

I said that as a natural consequence of being friends in RL you both act together accordingly. I'm willing to accept that.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm not seeing the Myk case tho. His behavior is a null tell as has been demonstrated. So what is the concrete scum tell info that you're seeing on the Myk case??

Votecount
mykonian - 6 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

, Spolium, ortolan, Kise, populartajo)
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (magnus_orion, Kairyuu, Albert B. Rampage, Gorrad, MrBuddyLee)
ZEEnon - 5 (WeyounsLastClone, PhilyEc, mykonian, Stephoscope, Lamont_Cranston)
Gorrad - 2 (Kmd4390, Starbuck)
zwetschenwasser - 1 (Benmage)
magnus_orion - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Jebus - 1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not voting: Jebus,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, ZEEnon

This is goodbye Ryuk.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Lamont_Cranston]

LMAO Gorrad you're my hero!

<3

[Lamont_Cranston]

Look its obvious to anyone who examines there posts that they are working in concert, they have made up their mind and its a personal thing with them. I accept that.

Once again, just to be clear, I'm not saying they are working together outside the game but

inside

they know each other as friends and are working on concert.

I am more than willing to entertain cases/arguments from anyone else that has questions about my play.

[Lamont_Cranston]

(sorry for the badly worded post I'm at work)