Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #475 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:19 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

LlamaFluff wrote:Why are people actually thinking that Mastin got modkilled? Why the hell would it not show as a modkill first of all, second, given any reason why he was modkilled, third game still be in day.

Getting caught up now.
And modkills go into night phase don't they? Anyway I agree.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,
cateraction
, Kairyuu, Benmage,
ZazieR
, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,
semioldguy
, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone


Now show me how you kill.


With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.
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Post Post #476 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:22 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

Kmd4390 wrote:
PhilyEc wrote: Mastin would've died instantly if he was modkilled. Gelus would decide the second he was the issue, he ignored it cause it was a lie ( I think).
1. Deathnotes are going to kill in this game, the great thing about them is that all you need is a pen and you wont get noticed, killing at the dead of night offers no advantage so I think deathnoters can kill day and night. (Just like in the anime) ^-^
2. Well I sure as hell would've, hes been very annoying. I'd say someone did it for personal reasons rather than as scum strategy. Hence why I'm looking at people who didnt approve of how he hijacked the beginning of the game.
What if he was reviewing like people have discussed? Maybe the decision wasn't made right away. Note that I don't actually think it was a modkill. I'm just curious why you made the leap from "Mastin is dead" to "Masting was killed by a Death Note".

1. Makes perfect sense. But again, why do you think a Death Note killed Mastin?

2. So it could have been a town/SK kill and not scum? Or you think scum used a kill for personal reasons?
1&2. I really doubt there are vigs tbh and I think all the mafia are SK'ers too. I have no prove obviously, just general intuition. Deathnote owners have the ability to kill at their own will regardless of situations. Killing Mastin is what I'd do as scum, thats for sure. Better him than someone at random. Fact that hes trying to draw out scum is another reason, perhaps they saw he was successful?

Doubt town has vigs due to character lists in the game. I think the SK's are the scum.
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Post Post #477 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

@all: Trying to catch up. Not really succeeding.
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Post Post #478 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by Benmage »

PhilyEc wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote: Those guilty of crap play can't blame their lynchers for lynching them; its their fault (please see my wiki). If it was a townie that vigged Mastin, they can't be blamed for being wrong -- it was Mastin's fault.
Agree
Is Lamont obvtown to you by any chance?
No, why is he for you?
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Post Post #479 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:40 pm

Post by Spolium »

PhilyEc wrote:I think all the mafia are SK'ers too. I have no prove obviously, just general intuition.
There is also the potential for two scum teams in keeping with the flavour, though with 2-3 neutral players around you may be right.
Kairyuu wrote:According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.
Given the flexible cause of death via death notes in the series I wouldn't discount it as unlikely until we're better informed.
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Post Post #480 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:49 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

PhilyEc wrote: Doubt town has vigs due to character lists in the game. I think the SK's are the scum.
Wouldn't Mello fit as a vig?

Wouldn't it make sense for Light and Misa to be working together?
Spolium wrote: Given the flexible cause of death via death notes in the series I wouldn't discount it as unlikely until we're better informed.
I agree with this. Someone with a death note can choose the means of death. "Shot" is a likely choice for someone trying not to give that away. That doesn't mean it was a death note though. Maybe, maybe not. We simply don't know.
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Post Post #481 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:51 pm

Post by Spolium »

Kmd4390 wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for Light and Misa to be working together?
And/or Yatsuba Group ;)
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Post Post #482 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:53 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Spolium wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:Wouldn't it make sense for Light and Misa to be working together?
And/or Yatsuba Group ;)
Exactly. Although I'm pretty sure that's spelled wrong. :wink:
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Post Post #483 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Skimish read still makes me like a myk lynch compared to a kise one.
Vote Myk

mykonian wrote:Now you know about what I think, and I think the most important person, because of the claim, should be Mastin, but, while my vote on Magnus doesn't hurt, and could only be used to pressure Magnus by someone else, a vote on Mastin should be used more careful, I think, as it is later in the game, and should be a serious, and well reasoned vote. But if it makes you happy, I could
unvote
. Do you have any questions about what I think?
Not really making me too happy because you arent telling me who is scum. Just who isnt scum. Also I tend to get a little bit of the willies when you call me town right after I call you scum. What was your read on Mastin though, it looks like you passively support his wagon or something like that

Apart from this, myk has mostly been arguing either semantics and obvious things (such as the vig is pro-town). He has been doing a good job of appearing to add a lot to the conversation, while really not having done much.
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Post Post #484 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

Kairyuu wrote:@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

@all: Trying to catch up. Not really succeeding.
And what if the killers get to decide on the death? That seems to make more sense. Deathnoters would make it look like a vig kill.
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Post Post #485 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:56 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

Kmd4390 wrote:
PhilyEc wrote: Doubt town has vigs due to character lists in the game. I think the SK's are the scum.
Wouldn't Mello fit as a vig?

Wouldn't it make sense for Light and Misa to be working together?
Melloh probably has Sidoh's deathnote. Thats what I'm thinking anyways.
Spolium wrote: Given the flexible cause of death via death notes in the series I wouldn't discount it as unlikely until we're better informed.
I agree with this. Someone with a death note can choose the means of death. "Shot" is a likely choice for someone trying not to give that away. That doesn't mean it was a death note though. Maybe, maybe not. We simply don't know.[/quote]
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Post Post #486 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:57 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

Woops, forgot to leave out the end, sorry not my opinion
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Post Post #487 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:56 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

PhilyEc wrote:Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?
I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.
Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.
If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.
Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.
I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.
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Post Post #488 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:12 pm

Post by Gelus »

A quick (<--I'm lying) word from our sponsor: because there's a lot of confusion, I'm going to clarify some of the rules.

Don't piss me off.
This rule is in place as a catch-all rule. It's similar to other mods' "I'm always right" rule. Asking game-related questions does not piss me off (unless they're excessively stupid, but even so, I'm not going to penalize you for asking a question). The fastest way to receive a rules clarification is to ask.

You may not use cryptoclaims, hypoclaims, prearranged ciphers, or any other concerted attempt to break the game.
There are many ways mafia can be played. Arguably the most 'pure' is the most conservative, real-life mafia. Somewhere between real-life mafia and IRC mafia, which each have drastically different techniques and skill sets, is forum mafia. An extremely conservative example of forum mafia would be mountainous, and an extremely progressive example would be Tar's Mind Screw games. I lean more toward the progressive side (this is a large theme, and a Phables game), but I don't want it to reach the point where tactics like cryptoclaims and hypoclaims overshadow actual scumhunting. As a result, I've banned cryptoclaims (a massclaim variant wherein each player posts an encoded string, then all players reveal their keys to have an effectively simultaneous massclaim), hypoclaims (a technique that involves all players posting targets and results every day (even if they didn't have a target or result), so that when a player dies all his targets and results are known to the town), and prearranged ciphers (players who can communicate outside of the game thread developing elaborate codes so that they can effectively daytalk unnoticed within the thread). I didn't ban more standard techniques such as roleclaims, massclaims, or nameclaims, because those are all fairly accepted techniques, and if any of them can break a game, then it was poorly designed. If the methods I've banned become more prevalent, then I'll allow them (and take care to design my setups in such a way that they don't break my game), but that day has not yet come, and until then, they're banned.

When a player dies, only their rolename and alignment is revealed.
A lot of players were surprised by this. Those are the ones who clearly didn't read the rules. Don't make assumptions about the rules; read the fucking rules.

After a player dies, that player's name will be revealed. Their role alignment will be given by color. All vote counts will be modified so that their name reflects their alignment.
This rule was newly added. I thought it was fairly obvious that green equals town, but apparently I was wrong.

About Mastin: Mastin was not 'under review', nor was he modkilled. Nowhere in the rules did I state that players are not allowed to claim scum. Any player may claim any role they wish, regardless of whether they're telling the truth. My reaction (none) would have been the same whether he lied or told the truth. Again, I feel this is fairly obvious. If I modkilled everyone who claimed scum as scum, all players could freely claim scum and the ones I didn't modkill would be confirmed not-scum.

About modkills: modkills will be announced. Furthermore, the reason for the modkill will be announced. To those of you who are definitively stating how modkills work, think about the word for a second. Mod... kill. Killed by the mod. The mod decides when, whether, and how. My stand is as follows: modkills should penalize the player who broke the rules. Thus, any modkilled player automatically loses, regardless of alignment, win condition, and game result. Furthermore, (unless the player intentionally broke the rules because a modkill would help his group, or he was tricked into it for the same reason), modkills don't end the day, because that's not fair to all the players who didn't break the rules.

I reserve the right to make exceptions to any of these points.

Also, I'm fairly positive I must have missed something, so I'll post more clarification later if need be.
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Post Post #489 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:39 pm

Post by populartajo »

im back reading all I missed.

post tomorrowf
Call me Tajo.
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Post Post #490 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:47 pm

Post by magnus_orion »

Kise wrote:First explain how we're similar in play-style.
I didn't... :?

All I said was that you seemed to know the manner in which mastin plays, or more specifically, you've played games with mastin before and understand how he plays as town and how he plays as not town.
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Post Post #491 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:52 pm

Post by mykonian »

About Kise


He assumes in a post that Mastin is town, before that was known, and attacks players from that position. When questioned, he claims that that rule makes that Mastin must be town, because he isn't modkilled. Kise seems to be one of very few people (1, as I count) that misunderstood that rule that way. It is just a weak excuse for his mistake.

because Kise already seemed to know Mastin was town. He just forgot that he couldn't tell us.

confirm vote Kise
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Post Post #492 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:59 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

PhilyEc wrote:Doubt town has vigs due to character lists in the game. I think the SK's are the scum.
I think those that can kill are the mafia teams: the one mello worked for and the organization that Light entrusted his death note to. In addition to this there are Death notes lying around belonging to SKs. If a mafia team kills someone with a death note, they gain the death note along with an additional kill.
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Post Post #493 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:01 pm

Post by Lamont_Cranston »

magnus_orion wrote:Huh. Mastin got shot (presumably by a dayvig) And he was town.
...
vote: Lamont

Not buying this kise wagon. Looks
really
fabricated. Kise's posts show a familiarity with mastin's playstyle. Therefore, being able to judge based on meta alone would be perfectly reasonable. This wagon stinks of opportunistic scum trying to take advantage of the sudden new development (and rock the mob opinion away from analyzing those on the wagon)

@Kise: ... Your reasoning for that being a modkill makes so many fallicious assumptions, its simply staggering. How about you ask the mod to clarify the rules, rather than make assumptions. I believe making claims is fine (and I'm going to go out on a limb here, but considering its a mafia game, lying about said claims is probably okay too), Gelus merely wants to avoid cryptography and joint cooperation (like through night-talks, perhaps) in an attempt to break the game or gain a significant advantage (Like secret messages or signals or what not). I could be wrong. But arguing about it accomplishes nothing when there is a more direct solution (asking the Mod) to figuring out who's right.
Ok, so you actually believe him when he says "oh its just his playstyle and I'm going to lynch scum that vote for him"? How come he's the only one with that attitude
before
he flipped town?

Couldn't the case against Kise be true here? It looks like a clear case of setting up lynches to me. With Mastin play being that crappy, Kise's post is definitely unnatural.

Can you speak to the actual case instead of how it "feels to you like BW-ing"?
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Post Post #494 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:03 pm

Post by Lamont_Cranston »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:I would try to look for his "certain" defenders. People that would be more certain of his innocence than would be normal for mere blind villagers...
I was pretty sure he was town.
Right, by the lack of votes on Matin, alot of people were. But you didn't go to the point of saying "I'm going to lynch scum off his wagon" BEFORE he flipped town did you? Kise did and that's my point.
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Post Post #495 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:35 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

ZEEnon wrote:
PhilyEc wrote:Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?
I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.
Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.
If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.
Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.
I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.
Thats exactly the kinda stuff I'm looking for, thank you. Are you trying to say you were busy doing something else before the death occured? and that makes you innocent?
And yes I do think the death note user would post when their kill was suppost to occur. I doubt a vig did it. You've seen why. Why do you want to call off the idea of it being a deathnote user so much as well as yourself by WIFOMing? If one was to look at who was online at the time Gelus was I'm sure we'd have a far clearer picture. Unfortunately I wasnt around at the time ;)

Gelus posts when I'm asleep, I'd assume the players from his zone are more likely since you want to bring up that type of timing. It looks like it happened mid-gameplay too due to time gaps between posts.

FoS Zeenon
I asked if you exhibited this action, you in turn brought out a series of defenses. Do you has a deathnote Zee?
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Post Post #496 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:38 pm

Post by PhilyEc »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
PhilyEc wrote:Doubt town has vigs due to character lists in the game. I think the SK's are the scum.
I think those that can kill are the mafia teams: the one mello worked for and the organization that Light entrusted his death note to. In addition to this there are Death notes lying around belonging to SKs. If a mafia team kills someone with a death note, they gain the death note along with an additional kill.
Okay, so you think there are two party's after deathnotes. Multiple deathnotes out there (I think 3) and if they kill Kira they gain extra kills (including day kills in my opinion). Sounds like a massacre could occur if we aren't careful.
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Post Post #497 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:01 pm

Post by ZazieR »

Spolium wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:
Spolium wrote:If that's how the death notes work then scum are going to have a hard time, no? It's a highly unlikely scenario.
A harder time than town will have destorying death notes?
It would be potentially impossible for scum to kill
anyone
if the town found no reason to NC, and even if some players did so, the scum target pool would be limited to that group. Even if NCs were taking place the town would likely become aware of this pattern within a couple of days. Scum would be at a marked disadvantage either way.

My point is that the game would not be balanced in the least if scum needed names to kill. It's good that there's enough collective familiarity with the manga/anime to make potentially useful observations but this one in particular is a null point I think.
Not entirely true...
First reason: Misa Misa *shrug* She still has many fanboys in her posession. They'd do anything to please her, even teling their names (and place of living obv as well >.<) This is why Misa Misa is dangerous and should be stopped :mad:
First serious reason: Investigation roles. The names of the characters are our role names. So it's likely that the scum have a role that can find out our rolenames.
Second serious reason: this

However, it's said in the rules that there could be no Kira's, so I think that the scum have a different way of killing, and that if they posess a Death Note, that they have another (extra?) killing method.

P.S. My Misa Misa reason was not serious, but she must still die!!!
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Post Post #498 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:14 pm

Post by ZazieR »

Due to post 428, I looked at Kise's posts in ISO. I noticed in this post that he mentions some players, but doesn't state who he sees as scummy eventhough he points two players out (ABR and Star).
In the posts after that, it's mainly speculation or discussing things with Lamont.
This is quite strange to me due to this comment of his:
Kise wrote:It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol. HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.
I'm really interested in your suspicions and why you haven't given any comments on the players who have voted Mastin.
Ignore the ''R''
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ZazieR
ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7567
Joined: August 15, 2008
Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD

Post Post #499 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:26 pm

Post by ZazieR »

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.
Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.
The only thing I don't like about this, is that he hasn't shown anything that he did look at those players. But that was already said in my previous post.
Ignore the ''R''

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