Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm a neighbor with BBT and from the pregame chatter coupled with the opening vote while lacking a forthcoming explanation, I'm already very distrusting of him.

VOTE: BBT

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm a neighbor with BBT and from the pregame chatter coupled with the opening vote while lacking a forthcoming explanation, I'm already very distrusting of him.

VOTE: BBT

Maybe you can explain his meta for us more trusting folks?

What's making you ask about meta? I didn't mention that.

I still don't understand her coming for me straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighbourhood. That's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst.

Oh? And why is that?

Very interesting. You knew I suspected you right? That's why you've come out all guns blazing on me. Opening vote? It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?

I believe TTH slipped to me in the neighbour thread. It looked like she was replying to somebody else with the way she started her message. I think she knows she slipped and is trying to get me out of the way.

Well, I was already immediately suspicious of BBT the moment I saw he was just a neighbor in my role PM. Aren't scum neighbors really common here? I don't know the statistics, but don't mods make neighborhoods mixed alignments a lot of the time?

I asked BBT about how he planned on reading Wake88. I did this because I had read a couple games with Wake88 in it prior to this and I saw that in both instances, he was a very divisive figure. My logic was that I wanted to get a baseline from BBT by asking him about something he likely wouldn't lie about (his philosophy on reading a certain player) and see if he actually followed through with it in the subsequent day.

The only thing I neglected to do was make sure BBT had actually played a game with Wake88, but I just figured BBT was here long enough to have done so.

He got really weirdly defensive about it and asked me why I was asking about Wake in particular, as if that was questionable. Then he comes out "guns blazing" to begin the day and I'm guessing he probably wasn't going to let everyone else in on what went on the neighborhood QT given that he left his first post completely unexplained.

[TellTaleHeart]

There's a whole ocean between us in real life.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm unnerved by your tone, Anatole Kuragin.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm unnerved by your tone, Anatole Kuragin.

“Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.”

You're trying to be cute and disarming.

It's having very much the opposite effect for me.

[TellTaleHeart]

I just walked you through it and there's no evidence you read it.

Ignorance is bliss?

[TellTaleHeart]

What advantage do town gain by outing the neighbourhood on P1?

To develop reads and force you to be accountable for your vote.

Now, since you like framing things in a leading way, What advantage do scum gain by outing the neighborhood on P1?

[TellTaleHeart]

Well, that's odd. Someone I don't who doesn't know me says I'm a divisive player, while completely ignoring my posts. Unsure if that account is simply trolling. Do you reckon it's scummy for a slot to ignore your posts while trying to discredit you? That doesn't sound right.

I didn't discredit you and I'm quite serious. I don't think you're a bad player, you just seem to happen to be the subject of a lot of scrutiny.

Also, all your posts this game only contain questions specifically addressed to other players and a color coded playerlist, so I don't have anything to say about them yet.

[TellTaleHeart]

Correction: She was talking about me (despite not really knowing me), and I don't think she's played with me before. However, this doesn't exclude the possibility that she's really an alternate account. I'm not saying she has played with me before.

I'm not an alternate account nor do I have any first-hand experience with you nor is it even close to being a "slip". Upon entry to the site, I read Open 529 and Mini 1493 and that's the context I "know" you in.

If you want to say those two games are unfairly representative of your play, that's fine. I'm not here to argue that. But in both of those games, you became a centerpiece of the discussion fairly quickly. That was the logic behind my meta questioning, though:

I asked BBT about how he planned on reading Wake88. I did this because I had read a couple games with Wake88 in it prior to this and I saw that in both instances, he was a very divisive figure. My logic was that I wanted to get a baseline from BBT by asking him about something he likely wouldn't lie about (his philosophy on reading a certain player) and see if he actually followed through with it in the subsequent day.

Uhh.. so are you going to explain it wake?

What do you think the first part of the post is in response to?

'I haven't played with him before'... It looks like it was a response to a different player/topic, no?

I just happened to put the pronoun ("he") before the antecedent ("Wake"). I didn't know it would be that confusing to you.

Especially given there was 2 hours between her first two posts. Why did she not post her questions on Wake in her first response?

I made the first post while my attention was divided. I also wanted to take time to think of something to say that was more than idle chatter.

[TellTaleHeart]

Does it look like newbscum asking for advice on how to deal with a potential problem?

Maybe I should point out that I was asking how to approach the

read

.

Scum seem to tend to not need those.

[TellTaleHeart]

You want to argue that the wording makes it a slip and I'm pointing out that the wording doesn't make sense for something that scum would say to their partners.

[TellTaleHeart]

In the midst of the ongoing storms in me vs. BBT and Boon vs. GreyICE, I see that someone is making posts while taking care to sit it all out.

Spoiler:

Hello. I only recognize a few of you. I'm sure that will soon change.
VOTE: Rambler

Vote:Rufflig

Obvscum

Obviously. I'm on a scumiserable streak. I've been rolling scum 80% of the time this year. The real trick will be to find my allies.

I believe they received pre-game chat -- which means the scum did as well. I don't have a neighbor example, but I've been a mason with pre-game chat before. While it may be uncommon for a neighborhood not to have a scum in it, it does happen. I'm not inclined to lynch either one solely on the basis of being a neighbor.

vote flubbernugget

He confessed he was scum in another game in a different thread.

Wouldn't that be discussing ongoing games, ergo modkill?

Flubbernugget appears to be alive in approximately 8 games, atm. I don't think anyone would be surprised if he was scum in at least one of them. Now, let's just drop this toxic topic.

Him bringing up the vigilante constantly to kill someone regardless of alignment is odd to me. Granted, I understand how he could be annoyed by the fact I said I would hammer, but come on man. I said I was a village idiot, I'm just clowning around.

Nope. GreyICE is a serious player. Serious players do not like players who lurk to victory; lurkers earn a lot of disdain from serious players. Welllll, guess what other types of players they don't like? Trolls. The nature of a bboard game takes away our ability to size up one's body language and vocal tone. The only clues we have to use are the other players' written words. Trolls, rpers and masks take away those clues nearly as much as lurkers. Basically, in a serious players' eyes you are either scum or you are a liability to the town. Either way, you should be taken out as soon as possible (preferably by the night game). If everyone adopted your play style, this game would become very chance based (much like epicmafia). That isn't the type of game that most mafiascummers wish to play. This is why GreyICE wants to see your corpse.

I can't really glean much information on what Ruffling actually thinks of the goings on by looking at his posting and it's disconcerting.

[TellTaleHeart]

I reviewed the first few pages and I'm working from townreads on Wake, Doogal, Boonskiies, and GreyICE for various reasons.

I'm waffling on BBT. I initially thought he was just going to try to railroad me and not even bring up the neighborhood stuff in order to not bring attention to the fact that he himself was a neighbor. If he really thought he was chasing a real scumslip, I would think he would go ahead and claim and shout it from the rooftops from the first post. But when I read this post, I think his philosophy

might

be to play stuff close to the vest at first. I'm unsure.

I've already said I'm scumreading Ruffling for his passivity. There's a couple more characters on the periphery of the discussion whom I'm developing scumreads on, most notably massive.

Others have yet to be sorted, but those reads are still in the embryonic phase and I prefer not to share them yet.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH: Why, of all players, did you pick Wake as the first one to isolate in discussion?

I bolded the answer in the following quote. Everything else is context.

I'm not an alternate account nor do I have any first-hand experience with you nor is it even close to being a "slip". Upon entry to the site, I read Open 529 and Mini 1493 and that's the context I "know" you [Wake88] in.

If you want to say those two games are unfairly representative of your play, that's fine. I'm not here to argue that. But in both of those games, you became a centerpiece of the discussion fairly quickly. That was the logic behind my meta questioning, though:

I asked BBT about how he planned on reading Wake88. I did this because I had read a couple games with Wake88 in it prior to this and I saw that in both instances, he was a very divisive figure.

My logic was that I wanted to get a baseline from BBT by asking him about something he likely wouldn't lie about (his philosophy on reading a certain player) and see if he actually followed through with it in the subsequent day.

[TellTaleHeart]

Are you townreading GreyICE for being an opportunistic liar or for being a hypocrite?

I think GreyICE is over-zealously pushing a misunderstanding based on a couple behaviors I'm seeing. He asked you twice prior to the "calling out" post what your experience with neighbors was (post 73 and post 81). To me, this seems indicative of someone who thinks he's caught you in a contradiction and wants to make sure you're actually making the argument he thinks you're making. I can't think of any scum motivation GreyICE would have in allowing you to correct yourself. The "gotcha'!" post itself (post 106) reads as genuine as well; the large, bolded font, the short sentence structure, and the link to the actual game in question all imply confidence to me that I don't think would be seen in scum, especially given that anyone can follow the link and judge the game for themselves.

While his efforts here are misguided, I think GreyICE actually believes what he's saying.

[TellTaleHeart]

So, TTH, you picked Wake instead of anybody else, because you were lurking games that he was in prior to joining? Of all the players in this game, is he the only one you directly observed?

My brother introduced me to this site after I played a game of mafia in RL; he's an older user (Antihero). The first thing I did here was go through and selectively read or skim (mostly skim) some of

his

old games to get at least a little bit of an idea about how forum mafia was played. The ones of Wake's I linked were two of them. The only other player I directly observed was GreyICE. I skimmed a Star Wars theme game and another large game, Knight Errant.

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake's theory quickly becomes untenable when you think about the payoff (or notable lack thereof) of the plan he's talking about.

[TellTaleHeart]

Now it looks like BBT's letting it go, along with TTH. That's how I see it, anyways.

You see it inaccurately.

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake's theory quickly becomes untenable when you think about the payoff (or notable lack thereof) of the plan he's talking about.

Unless you, as Scum, want to keep up the facade of being Neighbors, which makes you look like unconfirmed PRs instead of Scum.

1) Is your hidden thread a QuickTopic or a Private Thread?

2) Are there any other posts in there? If yes or no, why? Surely if you're Neighbors there should have been at least one more post made.

The facade would quickly crumble if either of us flipped and wasn't revealed to be a neighbor. It seems like that would be a very suboptimal strategy.

1) It's a private thread.
2) Yes, the moderator himself posted in there.

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler: The Ruffling post 191

Very interesting. You knew I suspected you right? That's why you've come out all guns blazing on me. Opening vote? It's RVS, is there a reason you're so paranoid?

I believe TTH slipped to me in the neighbour thread. It looked like she was replying to somebody else with the way she started her message. I think she knows she slipped and is trying to get me out of the way.

Also, my RVS vote is now a serious vote.

BBT clearly cites a reason for his distrust of TTH prior to the game opening. BBT's vote on TTH can not be considered a rvs vote. The characterization of TTH being paranoid is libelous.

The more I read her message, the more I think it actually might not be a slip.

I still don't understand her coming for me straight away and letting everyone know there is a neighbourhood. That's just anti-town at best and scummy at worst.

BBT backpedals on the slip and pushes a different reason for TTH to be scum. He pushes this reason some more in post 45 as well as restating that his initial vote was rvs.

In post 115, BBT shows the "slip" post by TTH. However, BBT is no longer convinced that this post is scummy. So why bring it up again? Well, he starts bringing up the this was a scum slip argument again. He then waffles back and forth between it being a slip and not being a slip.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I'm trying to reach the core of your issue with BBT's posting and I'm not sure what it is. That he changed his mind that it was a slip? How does it follow that BBT is scum from that?

[TellTaleHeart]

Okay, let's get back on track.
Wake88 appears to be right, there is little chance that a "pre game" chat, would also allow the ability to post from it (Isn't that mod kill worthy?).
Why come out as neighbors right away?
Isn't that something scum would do to protect each other?
I thought this was a normal game?

Doctor Pepper's response made it ever worst. I was thinking about voting BBT, but he's kind of high on the VC, so I'm leaving it on TTT for now.

We've talked about all these things, Csareo.

In order:

• How would Wake know and how does it appear he's right? Also, the mod specifically addressed the legality of quoting the private thread here.
  
• We've talked about this extensively.
  
• I talked about this and no.
  
• According to the wiki page, the "neighbor" modifier is
  explicitly
  normal.

[TellTaleHeart]

DoctorPepper apparently seems to think so. (link for convenience)

[TellTaleHeart]

What did DP say in your PT?

DoctorPepper, may I quote your post in the PT in this game thread?

[TellTaleHeart]

It strongly indicates (but not for certain) that the other player is of the opposite allignment. Something I became suspicious of, after they voted each other in the beginning.
We will also discover a lot about how this neighborhood works, something TTH ran from answering when asked.

I thought your theory was that we were both scum and fabricating the neighborhood conversation and that Anatole was trying to run interference to cover up the ruse. Now it's that we're actually a different alignment? Why is the story now changing?

Also, I'm not sure what questions about the neighborhood are outstanding. What are they?

[TellTaleHeart]

massive, I'm looking at your ISO right now and your thoughts are extremely difficult to parse.

I see you're still voting Boonskiies. Could you please tell me why?

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler:

It strongly indicates (but not for certain) that the other player is of the opposite allignment. Something I became suspicious of, after they voted each other in the beginning.
We will also discover a lot about how this neighborhood works, something TTH ran from answering when asked.

I thought your theory was that we were both scum and fabricating the neighborhood conversation and that Anatole was trying to run interference to cover up the ruse. Now it's that we're actually a different alignment? Why is the story now changing?

Also, I'm not sure what questions about the neighborhood are outstanding. What are they?

You've been asked in two posts. Are you paying attention?

@TTH would you answer these two questions... 1. Is BBT your only neighbor? 2. Do you have day chat. Both of those questions are still outstanding.

I missed them the first time. There's no need to be rude.

1. Yes, BBT is my only neighbor.
2. We do not have day chat.

[TellTaleHeart]

I am not a vote-mover. You can read some of my other games, I'm sure, and come away with the same conclusion. I'm also not big on sharing my thoughts, and I'm horrible at teamwork, but those (I THINK) is an artifact from being an older player with a long time away from the site, and changes to the overall way the game is played here. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it.

That's not really helping me read you, massive.

Anything else?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm town reading Csareo and Wake.

You're townreading Csareo?

My curiosity is piqued. Why?

[TellTaleHeart]

I feel like there's something missing with Ruffling and massive. I don't know what to ask for, though.

It's very frustrating.

[TellTaleHeart]

You just have to think of us as tall, handsome strangers that you meet by happenstance. What questions would you ask us then? Rufflig, do you like pina coladas? Long walks on the beach?

It would seem then that you don't have any problems developing your thoughts on the other players. Care to tell us what you think about the major candidates now? Boon, BBT, Csareo?

Your flirting is pretty smooth, but needs a bit more subtlety.

Anyway...

Everything Ruffling is saying

sounds

good, but I lack faith that Csareo or Boonskiies are actually scum (which is really the meat and potatoes of Ruffling's recent activity). In particular, I think the Boonskiies read seems kind of lacking because I currently have a town read on Boon.
Again, I don't really know what to ask for. I could just do the brute force method of demanding a reads list, but even if I see one of those I don't really know what I'm looking at since my reads list is a quagmire of hellacious indecision itself.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have several issues with Green Crayon's opening post 600.

Spoiler:

- w/r/t TTH versus BBT, the annoyed neighbors, I would perfer lynching TTH. But if we're only going off of the fact that they are neighbors, and TTH's third post in the QT, I don't want to lynch either.

For something that was the centerpiece of the debate for quite some time, Green Crayon's doesn't have much to say about his reads on either of us. Why would he prefer to lynch me? Is it because I'm scummy? Because he thinks BBT is town? We don't know and Green Crayons doesn't say. It leaves quite a bit to the imagination.

Speaking of leaving things to the imagination:

Spoiler:

- lol @ wake versus Anatole. Wake comes out looking worse by being super active about things ranging from really inane points to bad theories to blatant misunderstanding of what Anatole is saying. Is this wake's "divisive" play style TTH went on about? Ultimately looks like town versus town, but ~*~ who knows ~*~ .

-----

- GreyICE's excessive hostility towards Boon (noted by Wake), and invoking a non-scum kill (noted by Boon), is slightly suspicious considering the time within the game it occurred.

- GreyICE's poorly done research on Anatole's history with neighbors is null, potentially slightly town. His Great Retreat from the thread after being called out may be embarrassed town.

I read these three paragraphs and I learned absolutely nothing. Does he really think that Wake is town? Why is that? What gives him reservations? Or are these "reservations" made up in order to appear town? What

exactly

about GreyICE's "excessive hostility" is alignment indicative and what is the verdict on GreyICE?

Who knows?!

The highlight of the post, the Csareo case, is also pretty lacking.

Spoiler:

@Csareo:

- In Post 294 you say wake "appears to be right," but then you recognize the mod actually undercuts wake's position. You also appear to have missed TTH's Post 283 and wake's Post 288 further undercutting your approval of wake's speculation.

Care to comment?

- Whoa calm down on your buddying with wake, you're making it so darn obvious. (Post 294, Post 296, Post300, Post 304, Post 305, Post 308.)

- lol, whoa you're really going whole hog on this buddying wake business. (Post 350.) Okay, whatevs.

- Appears to set up a one-two back to back lynch of BBT and TTH (Post 400, Post 401, Post 403), and doesn't seem to care if they're town so long as he finally gets to know the mechanics of the neighbor role (Post 403 and Post 407).

When you think about the case and strip it to its core, it consists of: buddying Wake and "lining up lynches" of the neighbors.

Csareo is hardly the only one guilty of advocating a lynch sequence. Off the top of my head, I recall BBT, Wake, and Anatole advocating a sequence lynch at some point ("if one of them flips town, lynch the other one" or something to that effect).

You really think Csareo is scum for buddying Wake? Why?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm one of those cool cat replacements who just goes with the flow, man.

Far out, man!

So duuuuude, what's your deal with Green Crayons, man? You think he's trippin'?

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't feel like TTH has really engaged with me at all.

Don't put that on me.

The only thing you've bothered to do with me is put on a tin-foil hat and talk about this flight of fancy where BBT and I copied from the scum PT.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH: It seems that you're not sure that BBT is scum and you don't appear to really find anyone else suspicious. Is that correct?

Well, I don't know. I'm trying to make myself happy with a BBT townread, but I can't for a few reasons: 1) the looming specter of neighbor meta, 2) there's something rotten in the Csareo push.

[TellTaleHeart]

Did I lie anywhere? Did Wake's theory involve BBT and I copying from the scum PT or did it not?

[TellTaleHeart]

*sigh*

The most frustrating thing is, I think the core of the Csareo wagon is that:
1) Csareo's cases and reasoning don't make much logical sense (this was extensively covered by Ruffling, most recently in post 690)
2) Csareo hasn't made much of an effort to build up much goodwill to anyone else with the exception of possibly Wake, but even that's debatable

But when you think about Csareo's activity as a whole, it's very possible (and in my opinion, pretty

likely

) that he's town who doesn't necessarily think things through before posting them and, as a result, has public image troubles.

[TellTaleHeart]

You did it again. Believe me, this is a real life trip.
If you are accused of doing something, someone telling the truth would reply in the third tense "...and I copying from a scum PT"
You stated it using "the", which signifies that the person being questioned is confirming its existence, and regarding the context in which you said it, I am awfully suspicious you may be in it as well.

The neighborhood is a PT so, unless the mod wanted to change it up for no reason in the middle of setting up the game, I'm betting scum have a PT as well.

[TellTaleHeart]

In my mind, I keep going back to the group of (TheRuffling, massive, and Green Crayons).

I can tell from their posting styles that they're intelligent and articulate. I'm also inferring that they have at least a fair bit of experience. Something about their Csareo push just seems lacking in that I feel like the fundamental question of "What about all this leads us to conclude Csareo is scum?" remains largely unanswered.

I guess my hangup boils down to: If

I

(the remedial mafia player here) don't really see the Csareo case, how is it that all these power players are seemingly

so sold

on it? It makes me wonder.

And nothing any of these players are saying is unreasonable or illogical. Everything Ruffing, massive, and Green Crayons are saying are

technically

true. It just doesn't add up to Csareo being scum.

What I'm left with is my standing theory, which is that there's some kind of agenda behind the Csareo wagon.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, where do you live (country, state)? Weird but important question.

Time zone purposes?

Eastern United States

[TellTaleHeart]

Whenever there is a player who has the personality as Csareo, it is entirely possible that his personality vomits actions that are really just anti-town, rather than scummy (because he is town and not scum).

That's why I was digging into the subject with Flubber.

My problem is that I have been burned both ways. I've lynched people who were acting suspicious because that was their playstyle, but who were town. I've also refused to lynch people who were acting suspicious because that was their playstyle, but who were scum. So that gives me pause to credit a "playstyle" defense, as it can be used pretty well by scum, but I'm still weighing what Flubber had to say. Plus, I don't think I'm entirely clueless about bad playstyles, and do my best to look through playstyles that are more foreign to me to determine whether I really think there's something scummy there at the core.

What you were talking about with Flubber was meta. I'm not even at

that

level. You and everyone else on the Csareo wagon have this logic chain that I just can't follow to the end.
Csareo makes wrong cases -- ???????? -- Therefore Csareo is scum.

What's in the ??????? that I'm missing that everyone else seems to be seeing? I don't get it. What's worse is that I feel like this issue is being talked

around

instead of addressed directly and this makes me feel like there's chicanery at work.

I suppose I can see how "buddying" Wake

might

have scum motivation but even if you grant that he

was

buddying Wake, that still feels very circumstantial because it's natural to want to kind of cling to someone that agrees with you.

[TellTaleHeart]

BBT does have a borderline trust-tell level of voting like that as scum though.

I'm surprised to hear this from you, Flubber, considering the Chosen game we just finished.

[TellTaleHeart]

Ruffling, massive, GreenCrayons:

What would most help me read you all right now is a statement to the effect of "Csareo is working toward a scum win condition in (such a way)." Assume nothing. Explain it to me like you would to explain it to a toddler, because that's the level I'm feeling at about now.

I hate to ask for spoon feeding but I'm getting nowhere by myself so that's what has to be done. Especially since everyone else seems to content themselves with going on about phantom scumslips and some fake-neighborhood canard.

[TellTaleHeart]

Also

Omph

, I would very much like to hear from you in the way of opinions on the game.

[TellTaleHeart]

I may tentatively vote for Csareo. He, Flubber, AK, and now Boonskiies all are making me wonder. Doogal and massive need to engage more.

This probably means that the players not really pinging on my radar are actually Scum. Rufflig, TTH, and someone else?

I'm not going to sugar coat it, Wake. I'm pretty annoyed with you right now.

You say that I haven't engaged you, but you're making it very clear that you have no intention of meeting me halfway. I'm practically

begging

people for explanations for the Csareo votes and you refuse to talk to me about it.

Why do you think Flubbernugget is scum? He's one of my strongest townreads.

------------------

Green Crayons:

Spoiler:

@TTH:

Unless a scum is bussing, they have to make a bad case because they have to vote town. So when people make a bad case, I see that as an opening to evaluate them further.

(Obviously town make bad cases against players too, so unless there is something more than simply making a bad case -- such as refusing to critically reanalyze the case, or vilifying those who don't agree with the case -- simply making a bad case is not enough, in and of itself, for me to want to lynch someone. This caveat does not apply to Csareo because I think he's done more than simply make a bad case against BBT.)

If you think my continued vote for Csareo is based solely off of his buddying and his bad BBT case, you haven't been reading my other posts. I think his post-my-entry-into-the-game play has been scummy, which does not pertain to his buddying or his BBT case, and that's where Flubber's input becomes relevant for my purposes of voting Csareo.

To put it in your phraseology: Csareo is working towards a scum win condition by (1) pushing a bad case against someone who looks clearly town to me, thereby reducing the total town numbers, and (2) developing a persona that excuses a lot of his suspicious actions, thereby helping to protect himself against adverse actions.

Alright, I understand that scum have to concoct bogus cases on townies to advance their win conditions. But I've seen cases where townies are stuck in confirmation bias. The very things you seem to think are scummy are reasons why

I

think this is the case for Csareo. How is "vilifying people who disagree" part of a scum response? To me, this kind of response you're describing seems to fit confirmation bias to a "T" (implying that the opinions are genuine).

Number (2) requires more scrutiny. You think Csareo is feigning incompetence or stubbornness? That seems like an accusation that needs substantiation in the form of previous experience / other completed games.

[TellTaleHeart]

YES!

Instead of just flippantly declaring me to be scum because of some mysterious thing

I'm

supposed to be doing that I'm not, why don't you discuss the Csareo read with me?

[TellTaleHeart]

Do any of you know what an actual scum tell is?

I can't speak for everyone else in the game, but I certainly don't. Actually, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there isn't such a thing.

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, don't be cute with me.

"Engage", "ping on your radar", you can choose whatever phraseology you want but it all implies the same thing: that the shortcoming is on my end.

If I'm not pinging on your radar, then look at your damn radar screen!

[TellTaleHeart]

The discrepancy in what?

What are you talking about?

[TellTaleHeart]

There's a difference.

You're really going to stand here and tell me that

given the context

, you're

not

calling me out on something in post 768?

This is clearly not true. Even without context.

How is "not pinged on my radar" supposed to be taken?!

Is anyone else seeing this? Am I insane?

I'm unsure how your defensive should be interpreted.

I am just beyond words.
You're just as bad as Csareo and his imaginary "scumslips".

[TellTaleHeart]

OK, I've gathered my thoughts.

Wake

:

One reason I'm so frustrated with this game is that I feel so absurdly out of the loop on the Csareo wagon. Another is that it feels like there's a few players (most notably you and Csareo) that's

completely missing the forest for the trees

.

Yes, it's true you didn't explicitly say I didn't engage you in post 768, but you

did

say it in post 702 and I took your "not ping the radar" comment as just a continuation of that train of logic.

[TellTaleHeart]

@Green Crayons:

I still think BBT is likely scum. I had doubts a while ago and tried to make myself happy with a townread on him, but failed for a few reasons. There's

still

the neighbor meta and I absolutely hate the Csareo vote. The whole "reactive is my meta" isn't doing much for me either since that was his go-to line when I called him out on it in Chosen mafia.
The only thing that makes me hesitate is that I don't know if he actually thought he was chasing a scumslip with his game-opening post. I guess that's my fault since I claimed the neighborhood thing. *sigh*

And this is exactly why the idea of lynching Flubber was just a policy lynch. ^

Why?! I agreed with pretty much every word of that post.

Spoiler:

Can we lynch BBT pls. And then put the spotlight on AK?

@Flubber, please elaborate on both these points.

This game is stagnating. Like, my reads have not changed AT ALL since my last post. Actually, no, I'm town reading Green Crayons. Yay. Poor Wake has been begging for summaries that just aren't happening, and I think it's because nobody really knows what the fuck is going on right now. We need a change in gamestate now before things get even more apathetic.

Everybody's fighting over Csaero to the point where we're better off just flipping a coin on whether or not to lynch him than actually discussing it. And if that's all this thread is going to become I just want someone dead, preferably my scum read.

I want a spotlight on AK because all of his discussion seems like "low hanging fruit" attacks. He's picking things that are incredibly obviously anti-town and tunneling the shit out of them, when their overall scumminess should be implied. I want thoughtful insight from him.

-------------

Also restating my scum read on BBT because I already typed it up:

BBT was scummy for sheeping GreyICE, and immediately hopping off the vote when it went nowhere. Everything else he's done has been incredibly reactionary, and his major defense of it boils down to "that's just my meta," when it says in his

fucking sig of all places

that meta arguments are full of shit. Seems like desperate scum not knowing how to defend his actions. Oh and I feel he's active lurking by making no other contributions in the last few pages than saying I should be lynched for active lurking.

Other people I would vote for are massive and Anatole.

[TellTaleHeart]

@Anatole:

It's less of a "I find (such and such)

individual

posts scummy" and more of "I find the pattern your activity makes scummy."

So far this game, you very much like to stick to facts and point out obviously bad arguments (criticizing BBT's "scum slip" argument comes to mind). This isn't scummy in and of itself, but then I feel like with the people you

do

push, your analysis is on a very superficial level. Take GreyICE.
I went and took a look at GreyICE's previous games to see if he actually does tend to flake out as scum and the one I found was this one Sleepy Hollow. He seemed plenty active in that game as scum. I also think he could have recovered from the gaffe since, at least as far as I recall, plenty of people (myself included) were ready to forgive him for it.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't care for Jagged Appliance's reads list. Green Crayon's, BBT's, and Anatole's positions on the town list are rather undeserved and there's only one scum read with a rather large group of nulls. It doesn't help that I'm townreading his scum read.

Looking at the voters, the people on the BBT wagon are the people I am town reading, where as the Csareo wagon are either null to scum for me.

I feel the same way.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH:

1) Was BBT scum or town in Chosen mafia?

2) What happened to your Ruffling suspicions? I came away from your ISO last night wondering why you hadn't voted him all game.

1) BBT was scum. Link to the game if you actually want to read it.

2) The way Ruffling's been pushing Csareo's probably been the most town out of the wagon. I particularly liked how he responds to my frustration regarding the Csareo wagon. He didn't get fussy about it, refused to spoon feed, and told me to go through his ISO to decide for myself, which I think is far more likely to come from town than scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

I absolutely hate Green Crayon's recent posting.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH:

I'm shocked,

shocked

to learn that you don't like my posting once I basically state that you're in my Top 3 scum suspects.

I am petty.

But not that petty.

There's a difference between being confident in a townread and

knowing

someone is going to flip town. I think you venture into the latter category for a couple reasons. The townread on BBT isn't that well-founded in the first place and your witch-hunting from the BBT wagon is bad at that. How did Ruffling and Doogal get their positions on your scum list?

I'm also pretty sure you think I'm town but won't back down due to neighbour meta.

But you don't have to worry about neighbour meta. Because I'm town.

Say what you want, but scumhunting (especially when I do it) is unreliable. No amount of wishes and promises is going to make it go away.

[TellTaleHeart]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

[TellTaleHeart]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

What's your read on massive?

[TellTaleHeart]

UNVOTE:

Since no one else seems to want to oblige, I will. I want to hear FakeGod out.

[TellTaleHeart]

Ok...

TTH, can you confirm those alleged posts from BBT are from the neighborhood you two share?

Please give a straight answer.

Yes, I can confirm this.

[TellTaleHeart]

UNVOTE:

Since no one else seems to want to oblige, I will. I want to hear FakeGod out.

What is the title of the PT called? You are the worst person to unvote btw.

I am absolutely through with you and your nonsense. I would rather be thought of as scum than skirt the rules of the game by bending to these ridiculous demands for screen-shots, name of the thread, and quoting the mod's posts.

[TellTaleHeart]

What the hell, Fakegod can decide who he wants to vote without me and BBT barking up his leg.
FOS on TTH for unvoting, ciao.

This game is in dire need of a fresh perspective. I'll take your FoS.

[TellTaleHeart]

The bolded portion is delightfully overblown nonsense. I stated who I would look at given certain scenarios. This should be apparent from the every day, sensical language I used in Post 1186. You're now suggesting that if Csareo is actually scum and BBT is actually town, it is witchhunting to look at the players on the BBT bandwagon. I'll let that sink in and maybe you'll want to retract it. Or maybe not.

My choice of words notwithstanding, I think your reads list is bad and I disagree with it. I'm not going to retract anything.

[TellTaleHeart]

What's your read on massive?

Where was you going with this TTH?

I don't really know.

I'm just think massive is scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't really know.

I'm just think massive is scum.

Reasons being?

He's on the Csareo wagon. And I think his questioning of you a while back was incredibly stilted and awkward, especially the one about "who's the scum on the other wagon." It just seemed pretty bizarre and not for any purpose other than to fill up space. I was also suspicious of him earlier for being on the periphery of the discussion. Interestingly enough, he reframed this as "lurking," which I never accused him of.

[TellTaleHeart]

At this stage, I would very much be for a massive, Anatole, or BBT lynch.

[TellTaleHeart]

FakeGod, at the risk of sounding like I'm buddying, I will say that I very much hope you can rise above the ridiculousness that's been clouding this game.

[TellTaleHeart]

I will do no such thing until I hear FakeGod's take on the game.

[TellTaleHeart]

FakeGod, massive is completely absent from your analysis. What's your read on him?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not saying he's a town PR. I'm saying it doesn't fucking matter if he is or not.
He'll either be NK'd, or forced to confirm his power with us tommorow.
And claiming a PR on L-3 is dumb as shit as both town and scum.

It's not "dumb as shit" if he's scum trying to disperse the wagon without having to give specifics.

As for the claim itself, it is

extremely

fishy and FakeGod is right that the "I'm going to troll hammer if someone gets to L-1" line Boonskiies opened the game with is very odd in retrospect.

[TellTaleHeart]

Fine, if that's the way have to do this.
VOTE: Boonskiies

[TellTaleHeart]

It would be foolhardy to lead a lynch against 'Boon, if two players that have recent experience with him are independently reluctant to lynch him.

Completely independent of meta, how sure are you on this Boonskiies read, FakeGod?

[TellTaleHeart]

It seems that I'm about to become a distraction to FakeGod. I'm contemplating claiming and taking the lynch for today.

[TellTaleHeart]

So, again,

what are you doing

?

I'm trying to teach you to be a better player.

TBH, I think you're not as good as you think you are.
Like many others, I'm scum reading you, and if I were scum (and you were town), I would see you as an easy mislynch on D3.
I'm simply letting your bullshit slide on account of me scumreading BBT.

I'm not for a second going to pretend that I'm any good at this game, but I think I can recognize competency when I see it.

FakeGod is competent and I think everyone could stand to listen to him.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I'll go ahead and claim since I want input from FakeGod and Rufflig.

I'm a vengeful townie. In the event of my lynch, I get a vigilante kill. Should you all choose to lynch me, I would probably kill massive but I might also think about a shot at Jagged Appliance or Anatole.

I might also shoot Csareo if for no other reason than to cut down on the clutter in the thread and get rid of a distracting noise source.

[TellTaleHeart]

- Kissing ass to players will make them want to get rid of you

I'm not "kissing ass." I'm being as matter-of-fact as I possibly can.

[TellTaleHeart]

A thought just occurred to me: I might elicit claims with talk of my shot.

If I mentioned your name as a kill possibility and you're a town PR, do NOT panic and claim. I will make my intentions clear before the time comes to use my shot.

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake, do you have an opinion on who I should shoot?

[TellTaleHeart]

I think I should shoot massive

especially

if we are to believe Boonskiies really is town.

I would shoot Jagged Appliance if FakeGod thinks he's scum or if it helps FakeGod read Anatole (who I think has a good chance of being scum, but I'm not sure).

FakeGod, could you please expound on your Anatole read?

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake, do you have an opinion on who I should shoot?

Yes. Yourself, since you ignored my 2002.

I want answers.

Wake, you don't seem to understand.

I'm the one with the kill here. I don't have to answer to you.

Now, if you want to be helpful to me and discuss your reads, I will gladly hear what you have to say. Otherwise, you're going to get left out.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have accepted my inevitable demise, Wake. In fact, it was the reason I claimed. Sorry, but I'm still not obligated to answer to you. I know what I am.

TTH, you were never a distraction.

Your claim was unnecessary.

What's done is done. With BBT being nigh-confirmed town, I knew it would be hard for you to trust me.
And if I must die in order to take down massive, I will happily do so. It appears that's the way it has to be since no one will vote him.

[TellTaleHeart]

FakeGod, could you please expound on your Anatole read?

FakeGod, I think it would be

really

helpful if you did this.

I think that Anatole townread needs to see the light of day. That's the only way you can really evaluate it: articulate it and see if it tenable.

[TellTaleHeart]

FakeGod, could you please expound on your Anatole read?

FakeGod, I think it would be

really

helpful if you did this.

I think that Anatole townread needs to see the light of day. That's the only way you can really evaluate it: articulate it and see if

it's

tenable.

I slipped in my editing. Apologies.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have accepted my inevitable demise, Wake. In fact, it was the reason I claimed. Sorry, but I'm still not obligated to answer to you. I know what I am.

Unhelpful Anti-Town behavior.

Talk is cheap. Flips aren't.

Strike BBT if you are indeed Vengeful Townie.

I will certainly do no such thing.

He's a claimed mason. I would have to be a fool to kill BBT.

[TellTaleHeart]

ONE OF YOU IS LYING.

Mason
Mason/Neighbor
Neighbor/Vengeful Townie

I don't believe they'd have that with a Tracker in a Normal game.

If you believe that's not practical, and you actually believe your words when you say you're Town, you'll target one of the other two. Since BBT did not say who his other Mason partner is, he could be lying, because it's incredibly safe for him to claim Mason and not reveal his partner, because it's unverifiable.

I don't think so. The roles "Mason" and "Vengeful Townie" are normal as is the "Neighbor" modifier according to the wiki page. I'm not going to pretend I know anything about balance, but I'm not sure why this seems unbalanced to you.

Also, I think it's very plausible that BBT has a mason partner. In fact, I have a pretty good idea of who BBT's mason partner is, though I won't say who for obvious reasons.

[TellTaleHeart]

Changing as in there are less votes on her now.

I currently have 4 votes on me.

That's more than I've ever had today.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm already telling you I want to shoot massive.

How do you feel about that Jagged Appliance?

[TellTaleHeart]

BBT, please disengage with Csareo. It's not helping me.

How are you feeling about a massive kill? Would you suggest any alternatives? (please don't say "Csareo")

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm already telling you I want to shoot massive.

How do you feel about that Jagged Appliance?

Paraphrase your role PM to the best of your abilities.

I've already done so.

I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I'll go ahead and claim since I want input from FakeGod and Rufflig.

I'm a vengeful townie. In the event of my lynch, I get a vigilante kill. Should you all choose to lynch me, I would probably kill massive but I might also think about a shot at Jagged Appliance or Anatole.

I might also shoot Csareo if for no other reason than to cut down on the clutter in the thread and get rid of a distracting noise source.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH I think I like that choice but it is a big risk to use your NK this early.

What exactly are we risking?

[TellTaleHeart]

I've already claimed and I'm not going to waste time repeating myself. If you choose not to believe me, that's your choice. I'm not going to talk about it any more.

[TellTaleHeart]

Flubber or Dougal could be a good shot.

^FakeGod, what do you think about this?

[TellTaleHeart]

GreenCrayons? Why do you say that name, FakeGod?

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH, we risk losing a whole day, don't we? It's likely you'll be wrong seen as we're on Day 1.

Well, that's not the attitude...

Let's go over what we do know.

I'm taking BBT as town right now, along with [name withheld] due to the mason claim. For the sake of my sanity, I certainly

hope

FakeGod is town and I will be treating him as such.

I'm not

100%

sold on Boonskiies being town, especially seeing people come out of the woodwork to defend him and seeing the wagon disintegrate the way it did with an oddly executed power role claim. I might be willing to put that paranoia aside though. I'm not sure.

I think my best chance of finding scum is out of the pool of: massive, Jagged Appliance, Doogal, and Anatole.

Flubbernugget was an early townread of mine and I

really

don't want to let that go since he seems so different than the game I saw him as scum in.

[TellTaleHeart]

I just reviewed something and I'm getting cold feet on the massive shot.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH, have you decided whether or not you want to use your revenge kill? We have less than a day left.

That's not my decision to make.

If you're asking who I would kill, that's a really tough choice. I'm really disenchanted with a massive shot. I would kill out of: Anatole, Jagged Appliance, or Doogal. Or possibly Flubbernugget, though I really want to let that read be.

[TellTaleHeart]

Whoever TTH shoots, she is likely to be wrong, wouldn't you agree Wake? I don't think a potshot is the best play for town.

Well then who do you want to lynch?

I'm telling you up front who I intend to shoot

and you forgo any comment on that and just say something general like "she's going to be wrong."
Are you townreading the people I'm listing (aside from yourself)?

Please say something specific to the situation.

[TellTaleHeart]

We should utilize her ability, and we do so well by voicing our opinions on who to die with her. Why we've been wasting our time not doing that is something in itself. Ultimately the decision is up to her. If I were a Vengeful Neighbor, and fully-claimed, I'd at least be soliciting ideas from everyone else on who I should nail should we go ahead with the lynching.

That's

exactly

what I've been trying to do with you and that's

exactly

the conversation you refuse to engage in, Wake.

[TellTaleHeart]

You're wrong, Wake. FakeGod

and

Rufflig went over the math several times.

It doesn't give town extra kills.

It just gives

me

more power over one of the kills.

[TellTaleHeart]

Actually, a lot of this hinges on Boonskiies. If Boonskiies is in fact scum, I would be a lot more suspect of Rufflig than I am right now sans Boonskies scum flip.

I'm almost to the point of paralysis...

[TellTaleHeart]

Actually, a lot of this hinges on Boonskiies. If Boonskiies is in fact scum, I would be a lot more

suspicious

of Rufflig than I am right now sans Boonskies scum flip.

I'm almost to the point of paralysis...

Editing mess up again.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH, I told you the set I'd lynch out of, given the choice. {massive, Anatole, Doogal, Rufflig} Tbh I'm not confident. You can see we have Anatole and Doogal in common but I don't know if that helps you.

So what is your point, Jagged?

If we have so much overlap in our suspect list, why do you seem to have such a problem with giving me a shot?

[TellTaleHeart]

Town does not get an extra kill if TTH uses her ability.

You're wrong, Wake. FakeGod

and

Rufflig went over the math several times.

It doesn't give town extra kills.

It just gives

me

more power over one of the kills.

...so then you've given yourself a convenient claim while also not having to go ahead and commit to something which will prove your innocence, which gives you a nifty cover to plow through the remainder of the game.

"OH, I'M VENGEFUL NEIGHBOR, DON'T LYNCH ME TODAY."
"OH, I'M VENGEFUL NEIGHBOR, DON'T LYNCH ME THE NEXT DAY EITHER."

Right.

Why would you even claim this crap if it's not verifiable? Iirc, you weren't even at L1. Sorry, but I've seen players like Havingfitz in Mafia in Space do crap like that, too. And if you flip Scum and judging by your join date I'll assume Scum have Daytalk, because it requires some sort of advising to get a newer Scum member to fabricate such a claim. FG may seem like one to try and advise others.

Right. I'm telling you all not to lynch me today, that's why I'm talking about who to shoot.

*sigh* You are no help, Wake.

[TellTaleHeart]

So, TTH, how many posts in your Neighborhood have happened yet?

BBT, can you tell us the number of posts in your supposed Mason PT?

We don't have day talk. We've said this.

[TellTaleHeart]

I will vote for myself and shoot you before I let you lynch FakeGod, Wake.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: TellTaleHeart

[TellTaleHeart]

Csareo, I'm using my shot.

[TellTaleHeart]

Six by my count.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hello Titus and welcome to the unholy mess that is this game.

How do you feel about any of the following: JaggedAppliance, Anatole, Green Crayons, Doogal.
(This is my vengeful shot pool, in case you were wondering.)

[TellTaleHeart]

We have 18 hours.

TTH, do not throw your life away meaninglessly.

Something's gotta' give here.

We're not going to get anything done here with Wake insisting on tearing down a mason claim and a vengeful claim. Outside of policy lynching Wake (which I would be very much against), I think the most productive course of action is for me to take my vig shot and leave 2 flips. Otherwise, we're going to be going into Day 2 with the exact same approach as Day 1.

At this point, I believe the most pro-town course of action would be to get my flip and

show

the entire game how ridiculously wrong Wake is so that the discussion can move on to more produce areas. With any luck, I'll shoot scum; but even if I shoot town, I think 2 town deaths are better than maintaining the current game atmosphere.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why not shoot BBT? It's a decent goid shot and a lot of players would get reads.

He's a claimed Mason. I am not entertaining the idea of killing BBT.

Any other suggestions?

[TellTaleHeart]

Titus, regarding the Mason claim:

I've mulled over the Mason claim and it seems legitimate to me. I won't go into specifics, but I've gone back in the thread and looked at other players activities and there are a couple names that I could see fitting into BBT's mason partner profile. Now, if down the road these people flip anything other than Mason, then I suggest you revisit BBT's claim later. It seems it would be foolish for scum to claim something like "mason" when there's really no one to back him up, though. For these reasons, I'm treating BBT as town.

Do you have any reason not to believe BBT's claim?

[TellTaleHeart]

Yeah, I'm not getting policy-lynched.

Perhaps not. But you might be policy-vengeful killed.

[TellTaleHeart]

Go ahead. As Town I have nothing to hide and will continue doing my part to gather information to attain the truth.

You doing that would be Anti-Town.

This is empty rhetoric, Wake.

What I think you're really trying to do is be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian, even going so far as push everyone who's trying to help you away. I'm not sure why, but it's pretty frustrating and very draining on resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

[TellTaleHeart]

In fact, your reactions don't feel genuine to me, so I can and will continue to ask questions and apply pressure, because I will not let you slide in this game. If you want to get nasty and mean, I wouldn't advise it, because I'll report you for abusive posts just like you did Csareo. Am I understood? The more you react negatively to questioning, the more it tells me you have things to hide. I will enter Hyper-Focus Mode and put some energy into really interrogating you if I deem it necessary.

OK, now I know

this

logic isn't rational (especially if you're using words like "hyper-focus").

Some things to think about:
Why would BBT fakeclaim Mason if there was really no mason partner to back up his claim? What would be the point?
Are there or are there not players in the game that would make sense as BBT's mason partner?

[TellTaleHeart]

*sigh*

So, I'm guessing you have absolutely nothing to say about who I'm saying I'm considering killing (who I've listed numerous times now).

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake, you shouldn't be trying to out the other mason. This is exactly the kind of anti-town play we were talking about.

@Titus, Who would be easier to read with my lynch?

Why are you ignoring the fact that TTH asked me directly who I suspected the other Mason was?

I did no such thing.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH:

I didn't highlight this as being directed to you, so I'm just repeating it with a notation that it is for your attention:

I would like her opinion on massive, including why she suspects him and what gave her cold feet.

I will note that you have stated some basis for suspecting massive (Post 1415), but those just aren't striking me as convincing. However, you've sounded your massive suspicions repeatedly and consistently throughout the game, so I was hoping that you might have something more.

I don't really want to talk about it, but there's something (I will remain purposefully vague about) I saw when reviewing this game that made me think I was terribly wrong. As such, I'm not really entertaining the idea of a massive kill.

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, TTH: why did you think you were going to be a distraction for FG?

Was that only the motivation for your claim at L-4?

Simply because of neighborhood meta. And yes, that was pretty much the only motivation for claiming at L-4. But I also think a Doogal or Anatole flip would be very beneficial at this point.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, how do you feel about lynching AK?

I'd be for it.

[TellTaleHeart]

BBT, are you townreading Green Crayons?

[TellTaleHeart]

What's the updated Vote Count?

[TellTaleHeart]

PEditv2 - AK jumps off Boon after Boon's claim, Boon says he doesn't understand AK wagon.

I saw that...

[TellTaleHeart]

Seek, and ye shall find.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: Anatole

[TellTaleHeart]

I wasn't referring to him voting you. I was referring to why do I have to find AK for voting me/unvoting me scummy?

The implication was that you two are partners. Was that really lost on you?

[TellTaleHeart]

I just read Doogal's latest post and I have to say that I'm not a fan.

[TellTaleHeart]

Don't you find it funny that when I suggest the vengeful shoot Jagged how his wagon deteriorates?

When did this occur? You just put the wagon at L-1.

[TellTaleHeart]

Back end of wagon is scummy.

Tell my why sharp microwave isn't scummy.

Because I thought GreyICE was town and Jagged Appliance's "fencesitting" might be misunderstood indecisiveness.

FakeGod, are you confident that Jagged Appliance will flip scum?

[TellTaleHeart]

1983: Oh there's a blind Doogal vote. The amount of people voting for Jagged on one sentence of case is pretty ... impressive? What's the word I'm looking for there?

The word of the day is "scum-ridden".

s-c-u-m-r-i-d-d-e-n

That's why I'm questioning FakeGod on his confidence in this JA lynch, massive.

[TellTaleHeart]

I think my best chance of finding scum is out of the pool of: massive, Jagged Appliance, Doogal, and Anatole.

\

TTH, how is the wagon "scum-ridden" if three of the four people you recently said were likely scum are not on it? Also, FakeGod isn't on this list at all.

I never said my vig pool matched up perfectly with my scumreads. When I say the wagon is scum-ridden, I'm specifically referring to somewhere in the (Rufflig, Boonskies, Flubbernugget, and Doogal) grouping.

If anyone's getting scum protection from wagons now, I think it's Boonskiies. And Doogal is doing an excellent job contributing to that. This post is probably what bothers me the most:

STAHP!!!! We are not bringing up another person to the noose to force them to claim. We have 5 claims already, pick one and hang them.

Firstly, let me discuss TTH vengeful ability. It is anti town. Period. Even if TTH lets everybody else discuss on who she uses it on, we still have to A: Kill a townie to use it and B: We lose all vote counts on the target and C: We have to make the decision on who to kill will less info then if we waited for the next noose to come by. I’d rather analyze all the flips first and then make smart decisions then just shoot randomly.

BBT: I’m having a real hard time with this claim HOWEVER I do not believe we should kill him now. If he is not lying, eventually we’ll have a counterclaim or possibly a night kill of his mason buddy that will make him confirmed town in my eyes.

Csareo-Titus: VT claim, seems townie, waiting to see more for Titus and looking forward to doing VCA.

Boons: Tracker claim is somewhat reasonable, let’s see what happens tonight.

Jagged: VT Claim, doesn’t seem townie, let’s hang him sooner rather than later

@Green, BBT, TTH Seriously? Another wagon? Come on!!!!! (Jagged, I forgive you for jumping on this for self preservation purposes)

With the amount of "trouble" Doog claims to have with the BBT claim (which is 100%

instantly

verifiable), I'm absolutely stunned that all he has to say about Boonskiies is that his claim is "reasonable."

Boon's

claim is completely unverifiable until later, there's an easy escape hatch ("I tracked (so-and-so) and s/he didn't go anywhere"), and even if we

can

verify that Boon is actually a tracker, that doesn't mean he's town-aligned.

With all the conspiracy theories about BBT and I floating around the thread, it's positively mind-boggling that all the skepticism gets lost somewhere when it comes to Boonskiies' claim. Where's the black hole drawing in all the "nipping curiosity" when it comes to examining Boon's claim?

[TellTaleHeart]

Doogal

: Do you think BBT is faking the mason claim? Yes or no?

[TellTaleHeart]

2173: TTH: WELL THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY

ooooooo You're so funny, massive. You can make Anchorman references.

[TellTaleHeart]

I agree 100% about boon's claim, TTH but I think doogal is town.

Well then I would really like you to expound on this because if Boonskiies is actually scum, then I think there's an excellent chance of Doogal being scum for reasons I just mentioned. The disparate approach to BBT's and Boonskiies claim is just off.

Why do you disagree?

[TellTaleHeart]

2181:

Wake

: "That you affirm so strongly that she is absolutely Town makes me think you've played with her before." Painful that you are willing to rely more on some meta relationship than actual in-game events. PAINFUL.

2196:

Csareo

: "As long as she promises to not use her VIG shot." GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE

2198:

Csareo

: "I've been playing for two years." You've said that a couple of times now, like it makes you a better player or something. In that case, look at my join date, then just sheep me the rest of the game.

2230:

Wake

: "Shooting massive or one of the other lurkers wouldn't be a bad idea, either." Interesting that, once again, someone calls me a lurker and wants to use that as a legitimate reason to kill me.

OH HEY THERE'S BOON HI BOON SO GOOD OF YOU TO HIDE DURING ALL OF THIS

OH 2249 YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

massive's about to have a aneurysm.

I love this game.

[TellTaleHeart]

Doogal

: Do you think BBT is faking the mason claim? Yes or no?

I can say with 100% certainty that I am absolute sure that he might be faking it. Again, if he is, I believe we test it later down the road. Eventually it will make sense for his buddy to claim (or for them to be NK) and then will have a 100% townie in our mists. There is no reason to test it tonight.

What a charmingly awful way to not answer the question.

[TellTaleHeart]

massive's about to have

an

aneurysm.

*clears throat*
Excuse me.

I agree 100% about boon's claim, TTH but I think doogal is town.

Well then I would really like you to expound on this because if Boonskiies is actually scum, then I think there's an excellent chance of Doogal being scum for reasons I just mentioned. The disparate approach to BBT's and Boonskiies claim is just off.

Why do you disagree?

Doogal has been a townread for me since his first post and none of the arguments for him being scum are convincing. Nothing specific without going back through his ISO - just overall trend of pro-town posting imo.

Well it seems we're at an impasse because I disagree.

[TellTaleHeart]

How is that not an answer. I think he might be faking it.

Well of course he

might

be faking it. It's within the realm of

possibility

. That's obvious, though. Stating the obvious doesn't tell me anything and that's not what I was asking.

Here, let's me preempt all future unhelpful comments right here and now:

FOS: Everyone

Because you signed up for this game, you

may

have gotten a scum role PM.

In this particular circumstance and given the information we have, do you think BBT is lying? How about Boonskiies?

[TellTaleHeart]

So TTH, you're now not going to use your claimed ability to Venge someone?

Which Day are you going to activate it? The day when Town mislynches for game?

... Oh but of course, Wake. You know me. I want the

ultimate

power trip.

For someone who advertises that he's played this game for years, you don't seem to understand how the vengeful modifier works. I don't activate it, everyone else does. If activated, you all should have a pretty good idea of who I'm going to shoot. I'm going to leave it at that.

If you held a gun to my head and told me one was true and one was false, I would think BBT was lying and Boonskiies isn't.

Then I think you're crazy. And probably scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

Alright, Doogal. Once again from the top.

Your argument is that

scum

would've made the

verifiable

claim while

town

would've made the

much-less-verifiable

claim. In other words, BBT, who made a claim that

would leave him high and dry down the road

, is scum while Boonskiies, who made a claim that

can't be verified

and whose results can be easily faked, is town.

Do I have this all correct, or is there something I'm missing?

[TellTaleHeart]

You still haven't answered why mislynching you intentionally to use your vengeful ability would be beneficial in any way. We gain a kill at the expense of a mislynch and that kill comes without the information granted by VCA and without the time to analyze the past posts for associations.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[TellTaleHeart]

He's saying in that situation, you're trading what would be a confirmed mislynch for a kill without much to go on. IE. probably another dead townie.

Well...

That's nice, I suppose? I still don't know what you want me to say about that.

If you want to lynch me and tell me to

not

use my vengeshot, you've got another thing coming, Mister.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why is it not possible?

Why should it be possible?

Because when you believe in yourself,

anything is possible

, Wake.

[TellTaleHeart]

Nobody said to lynch you and have you hold your shot, everybody is saying, if you are indeed town, the last thing you should do is lynch yourself so you can use your shot. You pushed for your own lynch just so you could use your power. Why? How does lynching a townie help us, shot or no? Why can't we just lynch the scummy player you would have shot and have you around so you can still use your vote and give us reads and help point out what we have missed? How is killing you, so somebody the town decides dies, a good idea?

Who said I was letting "the town" decide anything? I'm not obligated to shoot leading wagon candidates nor am I bound by any kind of democratic vote.

If you see me ask a specific player about a read, it's because I value his opinion. It's not because I'm letting popular opinion dictate my shot.

[TellTaleHeart]

and if they're both town?

Blame the mod/NRG for Setup.

Oh, Wake...
*sigh*

[TellTaleHeart]

Stop with the theatrics and actually talk instead of being snarky and Anti-Town. If you disagree then say why.

I've given up trying to get through to you, Wake, and the thing I quoted actually perfectly summarizes the reason why.

You're telling me that if BBT and I instantly flipped town

right now

, you would blame someone else for you being wrong? Is that what you're saying?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm attracted to Scummy play like a shark is drawn to fresh blood in the water.

[TellTaleHeart]

In all seriousness, I thoroughly enjoyed that post, Wake.

[TellTaleHeart]

I would only hammer Jagged if FakeGod said he was confident in this lynch.

FakeGod, do you feel confident in this lynch?

[TellTaleHeart]

I would only hammer Jagged if FakeGod said he was confident in this lynch.

FakeGod, do you feel confident in this lynch?

Yes.

I believe there is a good chance that Jagged is scum.

Alright, I'll take the leap of faith then.

VOTE: Jagged Appliance

[TellTaleHeart]

Then he says it was very apparent that GC was a Mason even though it wasn't.

When I said "I have a pretty good idea of who the Mason is" yesterday, I was talking about GC. I second-guessed myself because I started to think massive was BBT's partner (they were townreading each other the whole day with not much of an apparent reason), but my first impression was that it was GC.

GC himself implied it pretty heavily at places.

[TellTaleHeart]

Summary of the Neighborhood PT:

BBT starts off with an expression of dismay, I'm assuming at my claim/his claim/how the day went.

I told him why I changed my mind on massive and why I thought he was the other mason (it was the same reason I said in the previous post). I talked about FakeGod and how even though I'm still townreading him, the Jagged flip is shaking my faith in that read. I told him my top scumreads: Doogal and Anatole and I told him I was still skeptical of Boonskiies' claim. I also said I thought Rufflig's exit and re-entrance onto the Jagged wagon yesterday was weird, but I wasn't quite sure why.

BBT then said he was townreading FakeGod strongly because of FakeGod's entrance. He said he was also a Boonskiies skeptic. He said he was townreading Rufflig, but that read was subject to change. He also asked me about Flubber and Wake, noting that Flubber stayed out of the center of attention most of the day.

I told him that I don't want to let go of my Flubber read, though his Day 1 play was pretty lackluster and I told him my patience for Wake was up. I also said that if Boonskiies and Doogal were scum, that would give me a scumread on Rufflig.

(Continuing this later)

[TellTaleHeart]

If he heavily implied it, I would like to be shown where he did so.

I'll get to this as well.

[TellTaleHeart]

Wake:

Vote Count 1.07

BlueBloodedToffee(6)

– TellTaleHeart, Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies, Doogal121, Wake88

Csareo(5)

– Omph, The Rufflig, Green Crayons, BlueBloodedToffee, massive

JaggedAppliance(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Not Voting(1)

- JaggedAppliance[/area]

If Csareo is town, BBT is scum: lol BBT isn't scum so I'm not even going to think hard about a scenario that isn't plausible

If Csareo is scum, BBT is town: TTH and Doogal are pretty high on my list of suspects, considering play and wagon timing.
If Csareo is town, BBT is town: TTH OR Doogal, Ruffling OR massive (OR maaaybe Omph -- I'm not digging his complete absence), and I feel like I should say Anatole OR Jagged, but I like their posting so it hurts me to say that

My "or" pairings in the town/town scenario do not necessarily exclude the other party, I just paired the players from each wagon who strike me as most suspicious in a town/town scenario based off of game memory of everyone's play.


Let's see. I didn't mention Flubber, Boon, Wake, or myself in the above, so I'm town reading those folks. (Feeling p solid about all of those except Boon, who appears to have have turned on a dime, and was convinced to such a degree by Csareo's single post summarizing his case against BBT that Boon began reading Csareo as town, is . . . questionable.)

Obviously from the above, I'm also town reading BBT.

I'm throwing Anatole and Jagged into the strong lean town category, because I like the town feel of their posting, but I also recognize that their posting feels somewhat safe.

This is the sentence I saw. Not sure if FakeGod and Rufflig are talking about the same thing.

[TellTaleHeart]

Summary of Neighborhood PT continued:

BBT asks why I said Doogal and Boonskiies would imply Rufflig is scum.

I said it was because Rufflig defended Boon under pressure and because I think Doogal is pretty scarce in Rufflig's posting. I added that I thought the most difficult read in the game was the Csareo/Titus slot. I thought Csareo was fairly town, but I thought Titus' entrance was pretty lacking.

BBT agreed with the townread on Csareo and said he would have to reread Titus' posting.

I asked him about his reads on Green Crayons because I was getting mixed signals on that read.

BBT said GC was a townread for various reasons (detailed posting, non-opportunism). He added that Flubber and Boon are who he wanted to focus on Day 2.

I asked him about his Anatole read and I said I thought Anatole was scum.

BBT said Anatole started out as a townread, but that read has since decayed.

As we already went over the entire playerlist, we then bantered about English geography the rest of the night.

[TellTaleHeart]

I want to know exactly why players rammed through that mislynch.

People did not listen when I said the wagon was crap, so I want

answers

.

I, for one, think Flubbernugget is an excellent person to demand those from.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH the reason I don't take that as evidence is because Rufflig also mentioned that he absolutely refused to vote BBT. It's in the ISO, too.

Counterpoint: Post 191

[TellTaleHeart]

Why wasn't TTH killed?

Your announcement of planning to vote me if I didn't die might have something to do with it.

[TellTaleHeart]

I refuse to lynch BBT, today.

My counterpoint to your counterpoint, TTH.

This is what made me feel Rufflig was Mason. Not GC.

Do you reckon Rufflig was trying to make himself seem as something he wasn't?

Are you asking me if Rufflig purposefully disguised his behavior to make himself look like BBT's mason partner?

I don't think so, as reaping the benefits of such a plan would require BBT to die, which didn't happen.

[TellTaleHeart]

My counterpoint to your counterpoint, TTH.

Since this conversation isn't really productive, I'm going to say that I think there's no reason for a mason to vote someone he knew to be town and leave it at that.

[TellTaleHeart]

Something Fake God didn't bring up: What if the Green Crayon kill didn't have anything to do with role at all? What if the accuracy of Green Crayons' reads were what led to his demise?

This points to Anatole, who I was scumreading anyway.

[TellTaleHeart]

massive: no result.

I don't understand what this means. Does it mean that massive didn't target anyone? Could you please clarify what "no result" means?

[TellTaleHeart]

I got the prod. Apologies for the absence.

Where did all the Anatole suspicion go? If I remember correctly, he was the 2nd most popular wagon to Jagged Appliance yesterday. If scum killed Green Crayons as a frame-up like Anatole himself is suggesting, they certainly aren't capitalizing on it now. I also thought I remembered Fake God saying something about how the Jagged Appliance flip could serve as a "litmus test" for Anatole, but I don't see any follow up on that.

[TellTaleHeart]

@Everybody, where am I wrong?

In pretty much everything, but I really don't have time to go through it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Let me put that in bigger fonts so it doesn't go missed.

I would like to 1v1 Rufflig.

IT'S YOU OR ME SCUMBAG

Vote: Rufflig

Vote: Rufflig

Vote: Rufflig

Vote: Rufflig

Vote: Rufflig

My top priority now is the Fake God read. BBT, where are you on that?

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: Rufflig

FakeGod is still a strong townread and the people voting the Rufflig wagon are far and away more town than the FakeGod wagon.

FG is getting rid of himself by playing scummy. He's acting like a child.

If Boonskiies is your only "real scumread," why is your posting so lethargic? You're vote's not even on him. It doesn't look like you're indecisive or unsure, so I'm trying to figure out what the issue is here.

I think you're trying to stir the pot without actually getting too involved.

[TellTaleHeart]

UNVOTE:

So, anything happen in the last 20 odd pages? Nope, not really. Same old arguments: check. Deadlocked on the wagons again. Wonderful.

VOTE: Anatole Kuragin

This post gives me a lot of doubts about this, FakeGod. With only a little time left until deadline, Rufflig could have easily just ridden out the clock on the Jagged Appliance wagon instead of attracting attention to himself by doing this. It doesn't help that my strongest scumread is still Anatole.

The only explanation that involves Rufflig being scum I can come up with is that Rufflig figured that Jagged Appliance was getting lynched anyway and didn't want to be caught out on a town mislynch, but even that seems wildly speculative and the vote that I'm quoting evened the wagons between Anatole and Jagged, if I recall correctly.

[TellTaleHeart]

So why don't we lynch Anatole now?

VOTE: Anatole

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, I am confident in my scumread, enough to risk my life on it.

I don't know what else I can do to show my conviction.

It's not a question of conviction, it's a question of accuracy. I think there's something wrong here for a couple reasons.

One is that, even with the number of claims that were out there at the time, Green Crayons was chosen for the night kill. I'm

convinced

that there has to be something to that. From the VCA analysis, I also know that was an all-town wagon so now I'm trying to dissect what went wrong with the Anatole wagon and how it fell. The only reasonable conclusion I can come to is that it fell with the death of Green Crayons. GC wasn't outed as a mason at that point so kill must have been strategically chosen for this purpose; a purpose that was pretty well fulfilled by the kill.

There's also the question of Boonskiies. I don't feel like his "no result" claim was really ever ironed out and with the amount of Rube Goldberg-esque theories about me being scum (and former theories about BBT being scum), I don't know why Boonskiies' claim is being so readily accepted at face value. By the way, Boonskiies is another person not voting and sitting on the sidelines while this Rufflig vs. FakeGod shouting match is playing out (see: Post 2985).

[TellTaleHeart]

It was L-1.

And yet, even with the skepticism (or the "hate"), the wagon disintegrated and he wasn't lynched. The talk never translated to action.

[TellTaleHeart]

It was L-1.

And yet, even with the skepticism (or the "hate"), the wagon disintegrated and he wasn't lynched. The talk never translated to action.

The tracker claimed destroyed the wagon.

He was going to be lynched otherwise.

I guess that's a fair point. I still have reservations.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, what are your reads?

I'm rethinking it right now, and I'm working from stronger townreads on BBT, Boonskiies, Doogal, Wake, and Titus for varying reasons.
One of the things I went back and reviewed was my earlier townreads: this consisted of GreyICE, Doogal, Boonskiies, and Wake. I didn't say any of those names lightly at the time, I was fairly confident in them. Seeing the GreyICE slot flip town renews my confidence in that list.

That leaves: Flubbernugget, FakeGod, massive, Anatole Kuragin, The Rufflig.

I think Anatole is scum for reasons I already discussed.

I'll reiterate that I really want to townread Flubbernugget because I've seen his scumgame recently and it's really forced and awkward. He either got a lot better at being scum, or he's town this game because his posting feels a lot more natural. I don't know if this line of thought is

entirely

rational, so I'll revisit it sometimes later. (I know this isn't what you want to hear, BBT, but that's the way it is)

The Rufflig is very close to actually being a townread,

especially

if Anatole really turns out to be scum. His vote at the 11th hour yesterday could've turned the tide toward an Anatole lynch and, given Jagged Appliance's townflip, I see very little reason for scum to do that. It doesn't make sense.

massive has been absent recently and the read's gone stale. Now that I know he's not the other mason, I'm starting to wonder about him again. I'm not sure what you see in him that you like so much, BBT.

Fake God is a tricky read. I feel like I'm screwing the town over by not listening to him if he's town. The hard part is arriving at the townread. I just went to Green Crayons and looked at what he had to say about Fake God, and he never got with the program on any of Fake God's pushes. Not to mention that Jagged Appliance flipped town. I don't mean to disparage Fake God, but have a lot of misgivings.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm talking about the switch

to

the Anatole wagon.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake
VOTE: Wake

You're wasting your time and you're wasting your breath, BBT.

[TellTaleHeart]

A FakeGod lynch would yield the most information.

Who else has reservations?

What information do you expect to get from a flip in either direction?

I can't know until the flip does indeed happen.

FakeGod has, as you know, been acting strangely and posting very frequently this game.

If he were to be lynched and flip Scum, we would all need to dig up all of his posts, for analysis.

And what if he were to flip town? It would be a complete bust?

That doesn't sound like an "information" lynch. That sounds like terrible strategy.

[TellTaleHeart]

You know, Wake, for someone who bills himself as a "truth seeker" you seem to want to let really important things go. Here, let me pose a couple questions to you:

Why is Anatole a failed wagon?

and

Why was Green Crayons nightkilled last night?

We now know that town was leading the Anatole wagon yesterday and, regardless of your read on me, we can objectively say that it was mostly composed of town. So, what went wrong? Why did it go away? Why did Green Crayons die over FakeGod? Even if you didn't think FakeGod was scum, there can be other reasons.

[TellTaleHeart]

From my vantage point, and experience, FakeGod is definitely not playing like his usual self. That you seem to not acknowledge this does make me wonder a bit more about your alignment.

How could I possibly know how FakeGod plays as "his usual self"? This is my first game with him.

[TellTaleHeart]

FG's possibly engaging in a ploy as Scum to argue and insult a Mason, with the aim of gaining Towncred from said Mason via reverse psychology.

Alright, that's a theory. What are the reasons?

[TellTaleHeart]

Townies typically want to lynch townies. You've vocally supported lynches on at least one conftown player in this game. Why is it such a foreign concept to you that scum would use that to their advantage to make specific players look bad? In addition to that, GC had reads besides me but you've got tunnel vision and you've ignored everything else going on today because you're so obsessed with my lynch despite having no case aside from "Green Crayons didn't like him."

This is categorically false. I've said that one of the sources of doubt on my FakeGod read is that he also stood to gain quite a bit from Green Crayons' demise. Also, since I'm the only one talking about the nightkill at all, I take that as a good indication that scum weren't using this as a frame kill.

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler: VCA

Vote Count 1.02

BlueBloodedToffee(3)

– TellTaleHeart,

Flubbernugget

, Csareo

Csareo(2)

– BlueBloodedToffee, scrambles

Anatole Kuragin(1)

– GreyICE

Boonskiies(1)

– massive

GreyICE(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Wake88(1)

– Rambler

Not Voting(4)

–

Boonskiies, Doogal121

, The Rufflig, Wake88

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline is on Sunday, September 21, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-21 11:00:00)}

Mod notes:

Let me know if you ever see any errors.

Rambler and GreyIce are being prodded.[/area][/color]

Vote Count 1.03

BlueBloodedToffee(3)

– TellTaleHeart,

Flubbernugget

, Csareo

Csareo(3)

– BlueBloodedToffee, scrambles, The Rufflig

Anatole Kuragin(1)

– GreyICE

Boonskiies(1)

– massive

GreyICE(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Wake88(1)

– Rambler

Not Voting(3)

–

Boonskiies, Doogal121

, Wake88

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline is on Sunday, September 21, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-21 11:00:00)}

Mod notes:

Let me know if you ever see any errors.
Rambler did not pick up his prod within 24 hours and therefore is being replaced.[/area][/color]

Vote Count 1.04

BlueBloodedToffee(4)

– TellTaleHeart,

Flubbernugget

, Csareo,

Boonskiies

Csareo(3)

– BlueBloodedToffee, scrambles, The Rufflig

Anatole Kuragin(1)

– GreyICE

Boonskiies(1)

– massive

GreyICE(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Wake88(1)

– Rambler

Not Voting(2)

–

Doogal121

, Wake88

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is temporarily on hold.

Mod notes:

Let me know if you ever see any errors.
Rambler is being replaced. When Rambler is officially replaced, the initial deadline will be revised and extended.[/area][/color]

Vote Count 1.05

BlueBloodedToffee(5)

– TellTaleHeart,

Flubbernugget

, Csareo,

Boonskiies, Doogal121

Boonskiies(2)

– massive, BlueBloodedToffee

Csareo(2)

–scrambles, The Rufflig

Anatole Kuragin(1)

– GreyICE

GreyICE(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Wake88(1)

– Green Crayons

Not Voting(1)

–Wake88

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

DoctorPepper will tabulate the new, extended deadline shortly.

Mod notes:

Let me know if you ever see any errors.
Green Crayons replaces Rambler, effective immediately. GreyIce has been prodded.[/area][/color]

At this point, all 3 votes sit on me all the way up to VC 1.18

Vote Count 1.18

Boonskiies(4)

–massive, JaggedAppliance, TellTaleHeart, Green Crayons

BlueBloodedToffee(4)

–

Flubbernugget

, Csareo,

Doogal121

, Wake88

Not Voting(5)

– The Rufflig, Anatole Kuragin, FakeGod, BlueBloodedToffee,

Boonskiies

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Sunday, September 28, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-28 11:00:00)}

Please let us know if you ever see any errors. [/area][/color]

Vote Count 1.19

Boonskiies(4)

–massive, JaggedAppliance, TellTaleHeart, Green Crayons

BlueBloodedToffee(4)

–

Flubbernugget, Doogal121

, Wake88, Csareo

JaggedAppliance(3)

– FakeGod, The Rufflig,

Boonskiies

Csareo(1)

- BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Sunday, September 28, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-28 11:00:00)}

Please let us know if you ever see any errors. [/area][/color]

Vote Count 1.21

JaggedAppliance(5)

– FakeGod, The Rufflig,

Boonskiies, Flubbernugget, Doogal121

TellTaleHeart(4)

- Green Crayons, JaggedAppliance, Csareo, Wake88

Boonskiies(2)

–massive, TellTaleHeart

Csareo(1)

– BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Sunday, September 28, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-28 11:00:00)}

Please let us know if you ever see any errors. [/area][/color]

Now all 3 of you sit on JA until his lynch.

Vote Count 1.29

JaggedAppliance(7)

– FakeGod,

Boonskiies, Flubbernugget, Doogal121

, Titus, TellTaleHeart, The Rufflig

Anatole Kuragin(3)

– Green Crayons, BlueBloodedToffee, JaggedAppliance

TellTaleHeart(1)

– Wake88

Boonskiies(1)

– massive

Not Voting(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 11:59 PM {(expired on 2014-09-30 23:59:00)}

Please let us know if you ever see any errors. [/area][/color]

Sorry for the big font, thought regular font size would be missed amongst the VC's.

There is something in those voting patterns. It just feels off.

I see what you're saying here now - I think it's unlikely all three are scum, but it does look bad. Maybe 2 of the 3. I think it's also worth noting that TTH was on those wagons with 1-2 others of Boon/Doogal/Flub as much as those three were.

So, why no vote? Is it because you know there's a vengekill waiting for you at the end of it?

[TellTaleHeart]

Why would they need to? You haven't dropped it all day and no townies are giving any credence to your theory.

For someone who's so seemingly sensitive to being "discredited," you like to ring that bell a lot yourself. You apparently can't take FakeGod's "abuse," but you're proving you no problem dishing it out.

The reason no one's giving credence to it is because I feel like we're still wrapped up in this "let's gather information" mentality when we've already got information that we're just choosing to ignore to pursue other pet theories. Ego is a powerful force.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH's play just feels really off - from the claim and self-vote, to her immediate vote on a neighbor, to her tunneling, to the way her wagon got to L-5 then dissipated.

And your wagon getting all the way to L-2 and dissipating was ... what? What would you call that, Anatole?

VOTE: TTH

[TellTaleHeart]

Why did you put "abuse" in quotations?

Because it wasn't.

[TellTaleHeart]

L-2* not L-5. Thanks for that.

Whatever. You're obviously not going to consider reason. Maybe town will get useful info out of our deaths if you're telling the truth.

VOTE: TTH

That's just as bad as FG's 1v1.

Except the only difference is this 1v1 all takes place in the same day phase.

I love convenience and instant gratification.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, why does BBT imply he's invincible tonight?

I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's because he thinks there's a protective out there that will save him or if he thinks he's doing a bad job at a town leadership role.

Does it really matter?

[TellTaleHeart]

Sorry, but you're infinitely more hurting the town with your TTH push.

There's a push? I don't see a vote.

The word of the day today is insincerity. I-N-S-I-N-C-E-R-I-T-Y

[TellTaleHeart]

Wow, I even quoted the post. Apologies.

[TellTaleHeart]

Two a Mason, a Mason-Neighbor, a Neighbor-Doctor, a Tracker, and whatever else?

It might matter.

You're talking to the wrong person about set-up speculation and balance.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm going to venture a guess that there are no night-active roles at all. I think that's sorta the theme with this setup.

So you think I'm vengeful scum?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm going to venture a guess that there are no night-active roles at all. I think that's sorta the theme with this setup.

So you think I'm vengeful scum?

A) I don't think that
B) Does that have any relevance to what you quoted?

From there being Masons and Neighbors, you're telling us that there aren't any active power roles?
How do you make that jump?

[TellTaleHeart]

BBT, name which three are Scum.

Same to TTH, FG, et aL.

I just did a reads post where I ran down the whole playerlist. You can find it here.

[TellTaleHeart]

Masons alone are very strong. I'm guessing the active (tracker) is fake and there is another passive power role for town. If you're telling the truth it's completely consistent with this but I'm obviously skeptical about that. I think you're more likely scum than vengeful town, but likely not vengeful scum. Possible but unlikely.

I think scum probably have all goons or goons + encryptor - no actives.

FakeGod, what's your thoughts on this post?

[TellTaleHeart]

BBT, Titus, Doogal, and Wake

: Please vote me.

[TellTaleHeart]

I generally refrain from setup specing publicly, because I'm seldom wrong and I rather not give scum more info.

You'll have to insist.

All I want to know: Is the whole "there's only passive roles" thing nonsense or not?

[TellTaleHeart]

AK thinks town only has passive roles and Boons is fakeclaiming.

I would bet against AK.

The NRG balance meta usually includes a town investigative role in the setup.

That answers my question.

Now, would you be a dear and please vote me?

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, please unvote

Why so protective here?

Because we're scumbuddies.

Please keep up, Titus.

[TellTaleHeart]

People are clearly happy to see you shoot AK.

Ask yourself why this would be.

If Anatole ends up being town, I think there's an excellent chance of Titus and Doogal being scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

People are clearly happy to see you shoot AK.

Ask yourself why this would be.

If Anatole ends up being town, I think there's an excellent chance of Titus and Doogal being scum.

That confidence wavering?

Maybe a little.

Any better ideas?

[TellTaleHeart]

We could lynch scum TTH.

That time's past, BBT.

I don't envy you.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not moving my vote unless a better case gets made.

TTH, I don't get why a townie vengeful would try to lynch themself for a shot instead of trying to make a substantive case on the person they are scumreading - if they're scum the evidence should be there to convince 5 other people.

It did convince someone: Green Crayons. Too bad he's dead now.