Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If Csareo was town and there was scum on my his wagon, I would look at Omph and GC.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think omph forgot about this game (since it's an alt) let alone that she was voting you.

[massive]

Do you think someone could justify leaving one of our wagons to join the other after all this time? Because I don't.

So ... you don't really believe this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Don't I?

[TellTaleHeart]

I absolutely hate Green Crayon's recent posting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I hate that you have had your vote on me for a very long time yet do nothing to push through my lynch. You sit back and let everyone do the work for you.

Is this so you don't draw much attention D2?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm also pretty sure you think I'm town but won't back down due to neighbour meta.

But you don't have to worry about neighbour meta. Because I'm town.

[massive]

Don't I?

Don't go all Thor on me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you think I don't believe?

[Green Crayons]

@massive:

Green Crayons

, why are you town-reading Boon?

My initial reaction was to simply state that his posts "feel" town, because that's what I'm working off of from memory, but I'll try to give that read a bit more meat after doing a quick ISO and rejogging my memory of specifics:
- His early game hammer-troll back and forth, ultimately resolving not to be a hammer-troll, reads town.
- His SK spec was weird, but it was built up off of GreyICE actions that I thought were worth noting.
- His willingness to agree with a player who was getting heat (agreed with BBT that voting for lurkers was a valid way to look for scum).
- Although his sudden turn on Csareo is really weird, I credit the fact that his read of Csareo is still pretty nuanced (e.g., Post 352, reads Csareo as town but recognizes that his posting isn't something he agrees with).
- Then there's a bunch of active stuff that isn't particularly alignment indicative one way or another.
- Maaaybe some of the BBT/Csareo suspicion differentiation would give me pause, I would need to look through it more carefully.

[Green Crayons]

@TTH:

I'm shocked,

shocked

to learn that you don't like my posting once I basically state that you're in my Top 3 scum suspects.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Well, the back and forth on Csareo was one of the main things that I was curious about. I'll admit your answer did not help me. I was rather hoping to get some insight into how you were approaching your reads or the game or something. So, let me try again. Other than Jagged Alliance, who are you currently scum reading?

I already had an outstanding question out for you. I'm sure you simply missed it during the post explosion over the weekend. However, I wasn't really getting anywhere with my read on you, so I asked for a little help.[/quote]

Right, I answered the question about my reads elsewhere without directly acknowledging this post - I find your playing weird in the same way that Flubber's do - asking for pressure or implying there is something I'm not being upfront about despite me answering any question given. I don't know if that makes you scummy or not. I think I'm going to make a case on Boon when I have some more time later.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Well, the back and forth on Csareo was one of the main things that I was curious about. I'll admit your answer did not help me. I was rather hoping to get some insight into how you were approaching your reads or the game or something. So, let me try again. Other than Jagged Alliance, who are you currently scum reading?

I already had an outstanding question out for you. I'm sure you simply missed it during the post explosion over the weekend. However, I wasn't really getting anywhere with my read on you, so I asked for a little help.

Right, I answered the question about my reads elsewhere without directly acknowledging this post -

I find your playing weird in the same way that Flubber's do

- asking for pressure or implying there is something I'm not being upfront about despite me answering any question given. I don't know if that makes you scummy or not. I think I'm going to make a case on Boon when I have some more time later.

this is not a real sentence

"I find your playing weird in the same way that I do Flubber's"

also fixed tags kinda

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A potential third wagon.

Interesting developments.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Okay, so you want to be vigged.

The vig detector is now if Boonskiies dies overnight, if there's two kills and he doesn't we have a serial killer.

Who said you were town, boon?

You said that you would play in such a way that you would behave detrimentally to the town. The only reason to consciously do this is a meta game effort to make your scum play indistinguishable from your town play.

Not only is this against the spirit of this site (play to win the game you are in), it's a detestable, pathetic maneuver. You wish to be unable to read? Fine, I grant you your wish, a place on my blacklist , and copious bullets to pump into your corpse.

Vig, kill this useless piece of shit.

I'm actually beginning to believe that Grey may be a serial killer. He keeps talking like he knows there is a killing role out there other than scum's factional kill. Him bringing up the vigilante constantly to kill someone regardless of alignment is odd to me. Granted, I understand how he could be annoyed by the fact I said I would hammer, but come on man. I said I was a village idiot, I'm just clowning around. It seems as if he is trying to set himself up for a vigilante claim later in the game, which is another reason he's so out to kill me specifically. I'm being targeted to seem like a vigilante will kill me in the night, when in actuality, a serial killer will be doing it, and then he'll be able to fake claim Vigilante and get away with it. On the flipside, the possibility of him being scum, and hoping for a second kill to potentially get a mislynch is also a possibility. Anywho, with the stuff I have to go on now, along with the toxicity, I like where my vote is going to be placed.

VOTE: GreyIce

I agree that his vig discussion is weird. I don't think he's crumbing vig either, as that wouldn't be the wisest way to go about it. Although he could be luring a NK to him, and if he is actually something like VT, I'd say it was good play.

I get that the SK is a little farfetch'd this early in game. I'm over analyzing. Kind of how like OMGUS votes are done by townies because the person voting them initially seemed scummy because the person is actually town. I still feel pretty safe with my vote there for now.


PEdit:

@Rufflig - Well, I don't know how serious he is. I obviously switched up from my troll-like approach immediately after, and yet he still goes on being a toxic player, which in itself is kind of troll-like. I don't see how 'serious' of a player he can be with that attitude, unless he's scum, which him trying to get a lynch/3rd party NK on me would make sense.

I'm looking for inconsistencies and ignorance. Usually I tend to believe people are super ignorant, when in fact they are just scum.

Speaking of inconsistencies - why did you stop speculating on the SK after dropping an early vote on GreyICE for pretty lax reasoning because you thought it might be him (despite not having any evidence whatsoever that an SK exists)?

@massive - It was showing how often I speculate things like I did with the SK posts for GreyIce. I go out there with speculation.

So why are you going with the easiest vote in the game now?

My reasoning for voting him isn't necessarily based on his scum meta. I actually don't believe he's playing too similar to that game either besides prominence and willingness to accept a lynch on someone. In that game he lurked when things starting to cave in on him. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him in that game because I wasn't able to read him. I don't believe his meta from that game should be counted as any reasoning for his lynch toDay, but if someone else could argue otherwise, maybe. He also had stated that it was his worst game he's ever been in, so I would imagine that had some effect as well. I skimmed through that game again, and I really couldn't find any matches besides what I've already stated. But like I said, I don't believe we should scum read OR town read him due to that.


PEdit:

@BBT - I will unvote if it comes to that, but don't expect me to stay unvoted if you can't back it up with new relevant reasons.

1) you say you voted BBT for "flip-flopping," as if this style of play is inherently scummy (particularly interesting because his flip-flopping is all on wagons nowhere near lynches) despite you defending your own style of play multiple times before this. (example, #706 where you FoS massive)
2) What "reasons" can he give you that he is town? What did you expect in response to this?

I just want to get to day 2 already for new information. We've been rehashing the same thing for the past 20 pages.

This looks like pre-emptive defense for having put a recently-flipped town player to L-1 with weak reasoning. "He kinda looked scummy but we got good info!"

So let's consider what info we'll get as you have gesticulated on that on a few occasions.

So from your expert analysis - whether BBT is scum or not, TTH is scum, and if BBT IS scum then I am also scum. I also like to plant the seeds for future lynches without any real evidence early on in the game when I'm playing as scum.

Doogal/AK haven't been around lately. Scrambles/GreyIce slot seem off to me. Especially considering Omph didn't unvote after joining in and we haven't seen him since. Also scrambles was kind of random and didn't back anything else up. Definitely worth looking into tomorrow.

So in addition to BBT, TTH, me and Massive being suspicious, you are also suspicious of Scrambles, Jagged, and Doogal? Isn't that what you're saying here?

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH:

I'm shocked,

shocked

to learn that you don't like my posting once I basically state that you're in my Top 3 scum suspects.

I am petty.

But not that petty.

There's a difference between being confident in a townread and

knowing

someone is going to flip town. I think you venture into the latter category for a couple reasons. The townread on BBT isn't that well-founded in the first place and your witch-hunting from the BBT wagon is bad at that. How did Ruffling and Doogal get their positions on your scum list?

I'm also pretty sure you think I'm town but won't back down due to neighbour meta.

But you don't have to worry about neighbour meta. Because I'm town.

Say what you want, but scumhunting (especially when I do it) is unreliable. No amount of wishes and promises is going to make it go away.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Say what you want, but scumhunting (especially when I do it) is unreliable. No amount of wishes and promises is going to make it go away.

OK, so just to confirm.

You're scum-reading me, but doing absolutely nothing to push my lynch. Correct?

[TellTaleHeart]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

[Csareo]

BBT has a habit of repeating things others bring up.
Frustrating indeed.

[Csareo]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

That sounds like an

excellent

idea.

[Csareo]

I'm taking wake's advice and not insulting BBT, but the guy really tests my patience.
He reminds me of a snotty 12 year old.

[TellTaleHeart]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

What's your read on massive?

[Jagged Appliance]

I retract my scumread on Doogal. I went back over him again and he reads town in his early play, checking GreyICE's assertion that Anatole was lying, asking questions of BBT and TTH. He unvotes to avoid a quickhammer which reads genuine and towny. He's mostly absent other than that. I don't like his answer to the 4th question Green Crayons asked but it's not enough to move him into scum territory. Sorry for all the nulls, I feel a bit out of my depth here.

[Csareo]

No. In fact, I might unvote in a second.

Don't. Please fucking don't.
I'm sure you can acknowledge that BBT's flip is indicative to Greencrayon's allegiance.
A push on him wouldn't work anyways, and I wouldn't support one even so.

What's your read on massive?

It still remains scum