Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[TellTaleHeart]

I agree 100% about boon's claim, TTH but I think doogal is town.

Well then I would really like you to expound on this because if Boonskiies is actually scum, then I think there's an excellent chance of Doogal being scum for reasons I just mentioned. The disparate approach to BBT's and Boonskiies claim is just off.

Why do you disagree?

[Doogal121]

I think my best chance of finding scum is out of the pool of: massive, Jagged Appliance, Doogal, and Anatole.

\

TTH, how is the wagon "scum-ridden" if three of the four people you recently said were likely scum are not on it? Also, FakeGod isn't on this list at all.

I never said my vig pool matched up perfectly with my scumreads. When I say the wagon is scum-ridden, I'm specifically referring to somewhere in the (Rufflig, Boonskies, Flubbernugget, and Doogal) grouping.

If anyone's getting scum protection from wagons now, I think it's Boonskiies. And Doogal is doing an excellent job contributing to that. This post is probably what bothers me the most:

STAHP!!!! We are not bringing up another person to the noose to force them to claim. We have 5 claims already, pick one and hang them.

Firstly, let me discuss TTH vengeful ability. It is anti town. Period. Even if TTH lets everybody else discuss on who she uses it on, we still have to A: Kill a townie to use it and B: We lose all vote counts on the target and C: We have to make the decision on who to kill will less info then if we waited for the next noose to come by. I’d rather analyze all the flips first and then make smart decisions then just shoot randomly.

BBT: I’m having a real hard time with this claim HOWEVER I do not believe we should kill him now. If he is not lying, eventually we’ll have a counterclaim or possibly a night kill of his mason buddy that will make him confirmed town in my eyes.

Csareo-Titus: VT claim, seems townie, waiting to see more for Titus and looking forward to doing VCA.

Boons: Tracker claim is somewhat reasonable, let’s see what happens tonight.

Jagged: VT Claim, doesn’t seem townie, let’s hang him sooner rather than later

@Green, BBT, TTH Seriously? Another wagon? Come on!!!!! (Jagged, I forgive you for jumping on this for self preservation purposes)

With the amount of "trouble" Doog claims to have with the BBT claim (which is 100%

instantly

verifiable), I'm absolutely stunned that all he has to say about Boonskiies is that his claim is "reasonable."

Boon's

claim is completely unverifiable until later, there's an easy escape hatch ("I tracked (so-and-so) and s/he didn't go anywhere"), and even if we

can

verify that Boon is actually a tracker, that doesn't mean he's town-aligned.

With all the conspiracy theories about BBT and I floating around the thread, it's positively mind-boggling that all the skepticism gets lost somewhere when it comes to Boonskiies' claim. Where's the black hole drawing in all the "nipping curiosity" when it comes to examining Boon's claim?

You are right, we know that the tracker ability cannot be tested unless he says "I tracked X" and later X claims and calls BS on it. What I mean by believable is that I would expect a tracker in a normal game just like I would expect doc or cop or jailkeeper and such. Neighbor/Mason isn't what I was expecting. Vengeful neighbor also wasn't what I was expecting. As for BBT being 100% instantly verifiable, can you tell me how we can do that without a counter claim and one of them flipping? Again, I don't think we should kill him today but I don't know that I believe his claim or your claim for that matter.

As for the vengeful, can you explain why you thought it was a good idea to sacrifice yourself in order to get a kill when we just can lynch somebody without killing you in the process? Assuming you aren't lying, we have to mislynch you in order to get a kill. Again, assuming you aren't lying, I'd much rather have you around contributing, voting and maybe using your ability later on if scum decides to lynch you and you are really sure of who the scum pushing against you are.

[Bert]

Vote Count 1.25

JaggedAppliance(6)

– FakeGod, The Rufflig, Boonskiies, Flubbernugget, Doogal121, Titus

Anatole Kuragin(4)

- Green Crayons, BlueBloodedToffee, TellTaleHeart, JaggedAppliance

TellTaleHeart(1)

- Wake88

Boonskiies(1)

– massive

Not Voting(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 11:59 PM {(expired on 2014-09-30 23:59:00)}

Please let us know if you ever see any errors. [/area]

[massive]

2181:

Wake

: "That you affirm so strongly that she is absolutely Town makes me think you've played with her before." Painful that you are willing to rely more on some meta relationship than actual in-game events. PAINFUL.

2196:

Csareo

: "As long as she promises to not use her VIG shot." GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE

2198:

Csareo

: "I've been playing for two years." You've said that a couple of times now, like it makes you a better player or something. In that case, look at my join date, then just sheep me the rest of the game.

2230:

Wake

: "Shooting massive or one of the other lurkers wouldn't be a bad idea, either." Interesting that, once again, someone calls me a lurker and wants to use that as a legitimate reason to kill me.

OH HEY THERE'S BOON HI BOON SO GOOD OF YOU TO HIDE DURING ALL OF THIS

OH 2249 YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

[massive]

Well now we'll have two pages of discussion of Csareo being force-replaced.

[Doogal121]

Doogal

: Do you think BBT is faking the mason claim? Yes or no?

I can say with 100% certainty that I am absolute sure that he might be faking it. Again, if he is, I believe we test it later down the road. Eventually it will make sense for his buddy to claim (or for them to be NK) and then will have a 100% townie in our mists. There is no reason to test it tonight.

[Doogal121]

Well now we'll have two pages of discussion of Csareo being force-replaced.

Only 300 more to go! Ur almost home!

[Anatole Kuragin]

I agree 100% about boon's claim, TTH but I think doogal is town.

Well then I would really like you to expound on this because if Boonskiies is actually scum, then I think there's an excellent chance of Doogal being scum for reasons I just mentioned. The disparate approach to BBT's and Boonskiies claim is just off.

Why do you disagree?

Doogal has been a townread for me since his first post and none of the arguments for him being scum are convincing. Nothing specific without going back through his ISO - just overall trend of pro-town posting imo.

[TellTaleHeart]

2181:

Wake

: "That you affirm so strongly that she is absolutely Town makes me think you've played with her before." Painful that you are willing to rely more on some meta relationship than actual in-game events. PAINFUL.

2196:

Csareo

: "As long as she promises to not use her VIG shot." GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE

2198:

Csareo

: "I've been playing for two years." You've said that a couple of times now, like it makes you a better player or something. In that case, look at my join date, then just sheep me the rest of the game.

2230:

Wake

: "Shooting massive or one of the other lurkers wouldn't be a bad idea, either." Interesting that, once again, someone calls me a lurker and wants to use that as a legitimate reason to kill me.

OH HEY THERE'S BOON HI BOON SO GOOD OF YOU TO HIDE DURING ALL OF THIS

OH 2249 YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

massive's about to have a aneurysm.

I love this game.

[TellTaleHeart]

Doogal

: Do you think BBT is faking the mason claim? Yes or no?

I can say with 100% certainty that I am absolute sure that he might be faking it. Again, if he is, I believe we test it later down the road. Eventually it will make sense for his buddy to claim (or for them to be NK) and then will have a 100% townie in our mists. There is no reason to test it tonight.

What a charmingly awful way to not answer the question.

[Doogal121]

How is that not an answer. I think he might be faking it.

[TellTaleHeart]

massive's about to have

an

aneurysm.

*clears throat*
Excuse me.

I agree 100% about boon's claim, TTH but I think doogal is town.

Well then I would really like you to expound on this because if Boonskiies is actually scum, then I think there's an excellent chance of Doogal being scum for reasons I just mentioned. The disparate approach to BBT's and Boonskiies claim is just off.

Why do you disagree?

Doogal has been a townread for me since his first post and none of the arguments for him being scum are convincing. Nothing specific without going back through his ISO - just overall trend of pro-town posting imo.

Well it seems we're at an impasse because I disagree.

[Wake1]

So TTH, you're now not going to use your claimed ability to Venge someone?

Which Day are you going to activate it? The day when Town mislynches for game?

[massive]

2288:

Titus

: "I want to hear from Massive and AK on who they want to lynch." Well I'm still reading, but you can easily see my ISO for my cases on your slot and Boon. I suspect I still have a ways to go before I can answer this question. TTH is a no-go for me.

2290:

Titus

: "Why not shoot BBT? It's a decent goid shot and a lot of players would get reads." Nice job picking up where your predecessor left off. Shoot the claimed mason! Why not! What could it hurt?

2322 :

Titus

: "I haven't read yet, but for right now, I'm inclined to want JA vigged if we lynch HHT [TTH]. I'm less inclinded to do it based off his recent posting. Flipping them both would do significant amounts for me finding where the scum likely are." Can you explain a little more about why lynching TTH would provide additional information over and above just lynching JA in this case?

I'M STARTING TO GLAZE OVER YOU GUYS MY EXPECTATIONS HAVE BEEN SET SUPER HIGH NOW

Oooh Boon coming to AK's rescue is interesting.

2396-99 Oh look it's Flubber again. Nooooooot really doing anything.

2419: Was reading Doogal's reads and honestly couldn't remember if he was anywhere near consistent with his reads. (Specifically, I couldn't remember why he thought Csareo was town.) So I went back to look and found some other incongruous thoughts that I thought I should ask about:

393: Boon is scum.
535: Boon is town.

535: BBT, GreyICE (now Jagged) scum, everyone else null.
1112: People on Csareo scum (me, Green Crayons, Rufflig, 0mph (now FakeGod), BBT)

Can you talk a little about these opinion changes?

OK, I made it up to my first post this morning, so capping this there so I can follow up from any questions on my thoughts.

[TellTaleHeart]

How is that not an answer. I think he might be faking it.

Well of course he

might

be faking it. It's within the realm of

possibility

. That's obvious, though. Stating the obvious doesn't tell me anything and that's not what I was asking.

Here, let's me preempt all future unhelpful comments right here and now:

FOS: Everyone

Because you signed up for this game, you

may

have gotten a scum role PM.

In this particular circumstance and given the information we have, do you think BBT is lying? How about Boonskiies?

[Doogal121]

@Massive. 393 had Boons with his "Hammertime!" policy, 535 is after he dropped it.
1112, BBT, 0MPH, GC and Ruffig were scummy. GC is now null, BBT is scummy (backing off due to mason claim), FG I'm waiting for a flip to see if I can figure out. Ruffig isn't playing anymore.

My townread on csareo was due to it becoming a counterwagon to BBT.

[Doogal121]

How is that not an answer. I think he might be faking it.

Well of course he

might

be faking it. It's within the realm of

possibility

. That's obvious, though. Stating the obvious doesn't tell me anything and that's not what I was asking.

Here, let's me preempt all future unhelpful comments right here and now:

FOS: Everyone

Because you signed up for this game, you

may

have gotten a scum role PM.

In this particular circumstance and given the information we have, do you think BBT is lying? How about Boonskiies?

If you held a gun to my head and told me one was true and one was false, I would think BBT was lying and Boonskiies isn't.

[massive]

One of the things that bother me the most is that I've posted more than 377 posts (sans Csareo the most active player here), yet Rufflig, Flubber, massive, and Doogal all have less than 100 posts. I'm not counting Titus or Jagged because they replaced in later. The game has over 2,000 posts.

I know some say that activity and post count aren't indicative of alignment, but seriously, I'm supposed to turn a blind eye?

Well, you tell me. You seem to have turned a blind eye to those players and are continuing to focus on Csareo-Titus, BBT, and TTH. And maybe FakeGod. So let's say you shouldn't turn a blind eye. Ready? Ask away! Imma get lunch but I'll be here all afternoon.

[TellTaleHeart]

So TTH, you're now not going to use your claimed ability to Venge someone?

Which Day are you going to activate it? The day when Town mislynches for game?

... Oh but of course, Wake. You know me. I want the

ultimate

power trip.

For someone who advertises that he's played this game for years, you don't seem to understand how the vengeful modifier works. I don't activate it, everyone else does. If activated, you all should have a pretty good idea of who I'm going to shoot. I'm going to leave it at that.

If you held a gun to my head and told me one was true and one was false, I would think BBT was lying and Boonskiies isn't.

Then I think you're crazy. And probably scum.

[Doogal121]

So TTH, you're now not going to use your claimed ability to Venge someone?

Which Day are you going to activate it? The day when Town mislynches for game?

... Oh but of course, Wake. You know me. I want the

ultimate

power trip.

For someone who advertises that he's played this game for years, you don't seem to understand how the vengeful modifier works. I don't activate it, everyone else does. If activated, you all should have a pretty good idea of who I'm going to shoot. I'm going to leave it at that.

If you held a gun to my head and told me one was true and one was false, I would think BBT was lying and Boonskiies isn't.

Then I think you're crazy. And probably scum.

You are probably right on the first case. Wrong on the second.

You still haven't answered why mislynching you intentionally to use your vengeful ability would be beneficial in any way. We gain a kill at the expense of a mislynch and that kill comes without the information granted by VCA and without the time to analyze the past posts for associations.

[TellTaleHeart]

Alright, Doogal. Once again from the top.

Your argument is that

scum

would've made the

verifiable

claim while

town

would've made the

much-less-verifiable

claim. In other words, BBT, who made a claim that

would leave him high and dry down the road

, is scum while Boonskiies, who made a claim that

can't be verified

and whose results can be easily faked, is town.

Do I have this all correct, or is there something I'm missing?

[TellTaleHeart]

You still haven't answered why mislynching you intentionally to use your vengeful ability would be beneficial in any way. We gain a kill at the expense of a mislynch and that kill comes without the information granted by VCA and without the time to analyze the past posts for associations.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Anatole Kuragin]

He's saying in that situation, you're trading what would be a confirmed mislynch for a kill without much to go on. IE. probably another dead townie.

[TellTaleHeart]

He's saying in that situation, you're trading what would be a confirmed mislynch for a kill without much to go on. IE. probably another dead townie.

Well...

That's nice, I suppose? I still don't know what you want me to say about that.

If you want to lynch me and tell me to

not

use my vengeshot, you've got another thing coming, Mister.

[Green Crayons]

@massive:

Purely from a game setup perspective, I agreed with FG's assertion that tracker is more likely than full cop because with a mason setup, we've got two confirmable townies, in addition to the vengeful/neighbor setup, which (if town) allows town another semi-comfortable town slot plus an ability to hit back at scum if mislynched.

Throw on top of that a regular investigator role that tells us town/scum, and I'm thinking that the town is simply too overpowered. Take away all investigator roles, and I would think town is too underpowered. A tracker role seems to be just right, even if you want to hypothesize that the vengeful/neighbor is actually scum.

That's why I'm willing to wait on Boon to see if later, at the appropriate time (because of a result or death), another investigative role comes to light. If so, I would be happy to lynch Boon 100%.