Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)
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Occam
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam
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Occam Goon
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Interesting idea, farside. I assume that's the whole point of the supersaint. We definitely need to wait on that until we have a few cleared, IMO, but its worth a shot later in the game.
Are there any roles that are inherently anti-town? Would it be worth lynching roles that are, as a starting point?
Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:
vote: DP
That reminds me - Mmm, doctor pepper...Slice.-
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Occam
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Occam Goon
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EX-FREAKING-ZACTLY.grem wrote: I would think that in this setup that scum would have a very easy time working around a BP and killing off more important roles like tracker, jailer, any that could potentially out them
WE KNOW ALL THE POWER ROLES AND WHO HAS THEM. IT IS TOTALLY OUT IN THE OPEN. BP TOWNIE IS COMPLETELY USELESS.
That is all. If you think I deserve to get voted out for revealing the obvious, so be it.
But if we're talking about revealing the obvious, how about the fact that Farside basically ruined any chance we had at executing her plan by bringing it up on day one and basically putting a target on the SS?
unvote - vote: farsideSlice.-
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Actually, it was an attempted (and successful, in fact) L-1, clearly discernible when you look at the VC directly above my post.and whats the big idea with the attempted self hammer? not liking the looks of that
Butunvote- I don't actually want to die and my death won't actually give the town anything, either. What I wanted was to realize how completely ridiculous that wagon was.
Now I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
vote: CephrirSlice.-
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Occam Goon
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What you're missing is the timing. I needed my vote on me to stay at L-1 until someone withdrew their vote, which charter did - then, in my very next post, I moved my vote to where I actually wanted it. I thought I made that pretty clear.Monk wrote: Okay, so Occam votes himself to try to convince people that he's really town, and then he admits that he attacked without voting, which makes it look like he's trying to throw suspicion off himself without presenting a good arguement to do so.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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There was nothing scummy about my self-vote. I did it knowingly, so you'd all say "holy crap, why is he at L-1, that's ridiculous" (which it was). The point was to get a vote off of me, which I did. Then I put my vote where I actually wanted it.
I'm sure I could look through games and find countless instances of self-voting that was scummy, countless where it was protown, and countless where it was null - which this was. I'm not arguing it was a protown move, I just want some breathing room.
Just FTR I still don't think BP is a significant town role in comparison to all the others. The thing I think you might have overlooked is that EVERYONE in the game is a power role. There aren't any weak, vulnerable vanillas - in an ordinary setup, BP would definitely be an asset - but in this game, not so much.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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No. Mirepresentation. I self-voted to get the votes off of me.Wait he admits it was a ploy to get votes off of him.
One vote is not a lynch, and it got discussion moving, which is a very good thing.a.) you felt I was a good lynch because I was useless…
I have explained to you why I think your role is useless compared to the rest. I never said you were. In fact, nothing in my case was based on anything you did. It was purely to motivate role discussion - which it did. You act like I had five votes or something - it was one vote.b.) explain to me why I am usless over other roles…
c.) explain to me how I am a danger to the town
When did I say you were?
Again, I never said you were.d.) explain to me how I am a bigger danger to the town over being a danger to scum
Not over any other role in the game, no, I really don't. You're a player who can make it to the endgame if he isn't lynched. That's it.e.) do you really see no advantage for us having someone who is bulletproof against scum?Slice.-
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That was my initial comment, for reference. Where did I even say I wanted him lynched?Are there any roles that are inherently anti-town? Would it be worth lynching roles that are, as a starting point?
Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:
vote: DP
People assume that because you vote for someone, it means you want them lynched, which is a completely flawed assumption. Your vote is a tool. I have used it already in this game for three different reasons.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Where's that coming from? None of those roles exist in this game. I assume you're saying that BP isn't an anti-town role. I agree. But as far as roles go, BP is the least useful of the roles we have. Period. I'm done discussing BP and am ready to move on if you are - my vote is already elsewhere.Anti- town roles:
Janitor
Terrorist
Framer
those are what come to mind.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Ah, this does make it sound like I wanted him lynched. It's a poorly structured sentence. "As a starting point" was meant as "as a starting point for discussion", not, "lets lynch useless roles to start with", I can see how that would be misinterpreted easily.Would it be worth lynching roles that are, as a starting point?Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Umm... no. It means I wanted to start discussion, in that instance. Other times, it means other things.a vote means what, you didnt want me lynched?
A. No vig killexplain to me how being bulletproof is "dangerous in the hands of scum"
B. No crosskill by SK, and crosskills tend to work out quite nicely for town.
There's two reasons.
You don't have to be dangerous to be useless. I said your role was useless to the town.also when you say "dangerous" who am I dangerous too? I asked you to explain WHY I was dangerous to the town, you retorted with, "when did I say you were"...so Mr. Avoid Questions, who am I dangerous to?
UM, that's the point I've been making all along. The scum just DOESN'T kill you. You're just THERE. Being BP doesn't make you proven town, it just makes you BP, so the town can't be any more sure you're town than they could of anybody else - PLUS, the scum wouldn't CARE about getting you lynched, because you're freakin BULLETPROOF. What are you gonna do to them? Sit there in a vest?Also you see no other advantage to me being bulletproof?...hmmm, scum has to lynch me to kill me...not a big one to you?...way to down play my role...
Eff you dude. I went through POINT BY POINT and answered every single one.dont avoid my questions anymore.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Perhaps if you worded your questions more clearly I could actually answer them (as I did in my last post when I finally figured out what you were talking about).
This was an avoidance. You DID imply I was a danger to the town…why did you avoid this question? Why did I have to ask you twice before you stood behind your answer?
You really think you're some kind of bigtime lawyer, don't you? You worded your question in a way that made it sound like you were asking me why you were a danger to the town if you were a bulletproof townie - which you obviously aren't, and I never said you were, so YES, I DID ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. Asking the RIGHT question will get you the "right" answer.This was an avoidance. You DID imply I was a danger to the town…why did you avoid this question? Why did I have to ask you twice before you stood behind your answer?
Dude, are you seriously asking me why you being scum is dangerous for the town? WTF is your deal? Scum is dangerous to the town by virtue of being scum - THAT'S THE FOUNDATION THE GAME IS FOUNDED ON.I love how you skirt by the question. WHEN YOU SAID MY ROLE WAS DANGEROUS IN SCUM HANDS, WHO WERE YOU SAYING I WAS DANGEROUS TOO (IF NOT TOWN)? I ask this, because when I asked you the first time, you coyly said “when did I say that”…I asked you again and you talk about being useless which has nothing to do with my question. …you said I was dangerous in the hands of scum…not just useless to town.
You're being completely ridiculous. I didn't want you lynched. this is key, so listen:I have a feeling you realize your vote and reasonings were bullshit and couldn’t back them up at first. So when people call you on it…you deny saying you thought my role is dangerous to the town and go with the old “I didn’t want him lynched, I was just stirring up conversation” bullshit.I NEVER THOUGHT NOR DID I SAY YOUR ROLE WAS DANGEROUS TO THE TOWN IF YOU WERE TOWN. I SAID IT WAS USELESS. I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY YOU'RE DANGROUS TO THE TOWN. YOU HAVE TO BE THIRTEEN YEARS OLD TO REGISTER FOR THIS SITE AND I ASSUME ANYONE OVER THE AGE OF THIRTEEN CAN FIGURE THAT OUT ON THEIR OWN.
If that's a flawed assumption, please explain why.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Sounds like an SK to me.role pms on page one wrote: ...and you're the Narcissist. You have decided that the only acceptable path for mankind is total submission to your will.
Each night, in addition to your usual night action (if any), you may also attempt to assassinate one of the other faction leaders. This kill cannot be redirected by Yang's power, or tracked by Roze's power or any player with Zakharov's Cloaking Device.
You win when you are the sole survivor, or if any phase (Day or Night) begins with exactly two players alive, and you are one of them.Slice.-
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That'sAny role is dangerous in the hands of scum.preciselymy point, but I feel that BP is more dangerous than many others as a scum role for the reasons I stated.
So you're saying that, when someone votes, they're required to say: "I am voting for DP because I want to start discussion". I'll tell you what happens when people come out with things like that - it goes nowhere. It's just like saying "I voted for you for pressure". It doesn't count anymore once you explain it. I'm not making up excuses for my vote - I'm telling you why I cast it.The point is you targeted a BP role now you say to start conversation and nowhere till now did you even state that was your reason.
Where are these "multitude of reasons"? If I recall correctly I only gave one, and it was genuine.I see a multitude of "reasons" why you voted as such. Each one sounds as fake as the next.
People really need to realize that a vote is a TOOL, not just another number to add towards a lynch. If you really base your suspicions on someone utilizing that tool, then you probably catch people who understand how this game works more often than you catch scum.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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No, not more than anyone else. I didn't really think he was scum when I voted for him - he hadn't even posted yet, so that's why I find it ridiculous that people think I actually wanted to lynch him.Occam - do you believe that DP is scum?
I agree on the farside missing the SK thing - there were several posts that mentioned it, and it was on the roles page. Seems suspicious that she'd "overlook" it.Slice.-
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As Ceph said you cited the same reason worded 5 different ways. That's one reason. How is my saying BP is useless, and also saying I voted him to start discussion, even remotely contradictory?farside wrote: What is the point of all this you ask. Well it's the fact he kept defending his point that BP is useless and then final says it was to start a conversation. I find this a cheap way to get out of something that was a person under pressure.Slice.-
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I explained why I self-voted and it wasn't for "sympathy". I knew my wagon was ridiculous and unfounded and I knew being at L-1 would make people realize that. Charter was the first - he unvoted, and I did too. That's not sympathy, that's an objective, which farside apparently recognizes but still calls sympathy:
Do you disagree that it was moving way too fast? Because it was, and I don't see how you can argue that what I did was anti-town.farside wrote: Whatever the reason it was a way to gain sympathy from a few saying "wow this BW is moving fast and I don't like it"Slice.-
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Grr... that's totally untrue. I'm willing to bet most experienced players would completely disagree with you. It all depends on the situation.farside wrote: Self voting is anti-town. Anyone who says different is smoking crack.
Plus, anti-town doesn't = scum.
Plus, it wasn't anti-town.
I think farside is smoking crack.Slice.-
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This is about self-LYNCHING! i SELF-VOTED. Obviously self-LYNCHING is anti-town, but that's not what I did, and obviously there is an ENORMOUS difference.farside wrote: Self-lynching is only useful as a Jester (a role which IMO shouldn't exist) or as scum. I did this to good advantage in Newbie 436 to throw off the town's read of D2 (after successfully arguing cicero out of doing it himself on D1). It cuts short discussion, throws off vote tracking, and otherwise disrupts with scumhunting.
It's NEVER a good idea as town. Anyone who threatens to do so should be lynched or beaten severely about the head and shoulders.
Monkey is wrong about everything he's said on this page and I love how he's setting up lynches in advance.
Fos: MonkeySlice.-
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A self-lynch is when you lynch yourself. L-1 is not a self-lynch. Think. Your tunnelvision is completely ridiculous.What if for a second I believed you as town. What happens when you put yourself at L-1 and some scum still hasn't voted. Your vote, your single vote is in terms self lynching at that point. Deal with it.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Exactly. I noted that in my post. Durp.The self vote is a big red flag to me, if you're town and a wagon like that ran up on you in the first 3 pages and actually went to lynch whoever had the stones to hammer you would be soundly trounced D-2.
You're wrong.as for the BP being more dangerous as scum it's nonsense, aside from the vig and sk who wouldn't likely target him, its worthless for scum aside from the argument that it is such an asset for the town.Slice.-
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Scum would be more worried about being at L-1 than town, dude. Think.Really the fact that someone unvoted you looks more suspicious as scum don't mind having an L-1 vote. A town person should be worried about L-1.
Another misrep, and a predictable one at that.Nice OMGUS vote by the way. Rolling Eyes
Look farside, I think you have some serious theory issues. I'm not going to waste my time trying to teach you anything about theory as you apparently dont know the difference between a self-vote and a self-lynch, even though those terms define themselves. Just because someone votes you back doesn't make it OMGUS. If there's a reason for a vote there's a reason for it, and there most definitely is in this case.Slice.-
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There are a number of things wrong with this. One is that the hammer tell is completely rooted in WIFOM. Two is that there are far fewer scum than town, and townies can be just as "known to pull" a hammer as scum, so scum have more to lose. Three is that you say "Any scum who is concerned about being at L-1 is laughable can be just as easily applied to a town player, so that's BS.farside wrote: Why the hell would scum worry about L-1 everyone person on this site talks to death before lynching. So any scum who is concerned on page 3 about being at L-1 is laughable. Townie on the other hand worry about the quick hammer that scum is known to pull. Yes it can out a scum but in the mean time talks stop and kills happen.
Really I see no case you brought forth against me. All you have done is say I'm misrep. I see no other reason for that vote.
Dude - the scum is doing ONE THIRD of the nightkilling. That's one of three kills. How is that the most night killing? Kindly, making it impossible to night kill a scum is a really bad thing for what I consider obvious reasons.gremwell wrote: alright then could you kindly explain to me how a role who's sole power is to be immune to a night kill makes it more dangerous than normal to be in the hands of the group doing the most night killing.
Please read the game then. I've been calling you out since the game started because you've been misrepping and using bullshit arguments against me all game. I'll lay them out for your convenience:farside wrote: Really I see no case you brought forth against me. All you have done is say I'm misrep. I see no other reason for that vote.
1. I voted for you once already:
2. You feigned ignorance about there being an SK:I wrote:But if we're talking about revealing the obvious, how about the fact that Farside basically ruined any chance we had at executing her plan by bringing it up on day one and basically putting a target on the SS?
unvote - vote: farside
immediately made me think you were probably the SK, especially since you attempted to make me look bad for "assuming" there was an SK when it was clearly stated on the first page.farside wrote:Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.
3. You gave "5 reasons" for my explaining my vote, and myself and Cephrir noted:
4. You have misrepped me several times and used an argument regarding self-lynching to attempt (and fail) to prove that SELF-VOTING is anti-town.I wrote:As Ceph said you cited the same reason worded 5 different ways.Slice.-
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Yeah, time passed and I realized that what you did was actually bad. Sorry.farside wrote: Funny I brought this up and you liked the idea on one page but when you are critisized for your comment you bring this up as a shield.
Because, like I said, you tried to make me look bad with it, and you were wrong. You saying it wasn't feigned doesn't mean it wasn't.farside wrote: I explained this already. Note you ignored by reason and are calling it feigned ignorance. How is this really scummy act?
Yeah, I said that same thing five times. Clearly I believed it. I still have been calling and still will call the BP role more useless than any of the other roles for the town and quite dangerous for the scum. That hasn't changed, and it's a theory discussion, so if you disagree, that doesn't make me scum.farside wrote: Showed you were talking, talking and talking about how BP is useless then after more pressure brought up that you got conversation started by making said comment. Funny not mentioned earlier or the number of times you called BP useless
The point you brought up doesn't apply because it was about self-lynching, plain and simple. Bring me some evidence of self-VOTING being anti-town.... then we'll talk. If you do, I'll bring some evidence of it being protown, and then we can agree that it's a nulltell.farside wrote: Once again how is self voting not anti town. I showed different people stating how it is bad for the town and can lead to a lynch. What part of that do you keep missing or should I say dismissing.
You're serious? You're actually claiming that ONLY SCUM quickhammer on DAY ONE? That's completely absurd. You're stretched thin now, eh? Yes, I dismiss almost everything you've said as invalid. Here's another thing - NOBODY HAMMERED. Charter unvoted quickly, then so did I. There wasn't a quick hammer so there's nothing to talk about in that respect. Your point is built 100% on WIFOM that didn't even happen.farside wrote: All my points on why L-1 for town is worse then for scum can't be just WIFOM because this site proves that no people like to talk to death. Scum know it. Only people I ever seen do a quick hammer was scum. Proff. Look at every game and tell me a townie that did it. Anything else you wish to dismiss?
@Grem -
Yes, SK being BP is the worst case scenario. But you seem to be trying to say that BP is scum isn't bad? Why? A scum with BP is dangerous for the same reason that an SK with BP is dangerous. I guess I'm missing your point.Slice.-
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Dead wrong.Cephrir wrote: Also, he's 100% wrong about selfvoting; it is always aways always antitown. Always. Did I mention always?
I said it was null or neutral. READ.Cephrir wrote: Arguing that it's protown suggests to me that you don't really know what's meant by antitown and protown, Occam. Just because a townie does something does not mean it helps the town.
Do you want examples from outside games? If so I do too. SELF-VOTING examples. Not self-lynching examples. I'll find you some examples where self-voting wasn't ant-town when you show me some examples where it was anti-town. Not neutral, but actually ANTI-town.farside wrote: I got two here for you to ponder on. Show how self voting is not anti town now.
NOTE: I do not claim that self-voting is protown - I claim that it is neutral, so don't waste my time with examples where its not explicitly anti-town, please.Slice.-
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Here's a few examples to back up my claim that self-voting is not anti-town:
In a Mafia Discussion thread entitled "Self-voting: Is it always a bad idea?
Tarhalinudr wrote:I do not agree, however, with the people who think that a townie should always play to keep themselves alive. In my opinion, a vanilla townie shouldn't care about being lynched in the early game (the information gained from the bandwagon far outweighs the loss of a townie, especially if the town plays properly), since the town's top priority is to kill the scum (NOT to survive).pickemgenious wrote:self voting is alright with me.UltimaAvalon wrote:Self Voting is great. It's fun seeing every time I start a new game how many ways people can react to such a harmless voteMert wrote:I self-voted as town in Newbie 254 on Day Two (though it was not the hammer). My reason for doing so was that I replaced into that game on Day One and my predecessor had played a fairly scummy game so far. Things were drawing to a close for that day and I knew that despite doing my best to change people's opinion, going into the endgame with four players, one of whom was me in a rather precarious situation was less preferable than going into endgame with three and having suspicions on me no longer an issue.
Now that I'm a bit more experienced, I think I might have been able to get out of that situation without it being necessary to self-vote, but at the time and given that it was my first game I felt it was best for the town to remove myself from the equasion. Town did win in the end, so I guess it wasn't too horrible.
I'm not sure if it was the correct thing to do, but it certainly wasn't so strategically unsound that it warranted a beating around the head (at least not in my opinion).vollkan wrote:In Mini 486, a D1 self-vote by Nelly632 was bandwagoned upon by a number of people until he unvoted and claimed vanilla.
Anyway, I was a dayvig-mason and I decided that it seemed strange for scum to do what Nelly had done and, thus, he was most likely town. On that basis, I went ahead and began interrogating Oman, who was one of the wagoners, figuring it was likely that one/some were scum. Oman, who turned out to be mafia, made a fatal slip in response to something I had said and I dayvigged him, D1.
So, yeah, self-voting is not always a bad idea (though this particular example depended on a lot of luck).THIS IS KEY:
Seol wrote:Self-voting early is a deliberately provocative act. Sometimes a deliberately provocative act can generate useful discussion, however making yourself easy to attack will mean it's easier for scum to attack you in a way which blends in with how the town attacks you. As such DPAs more often lead to noise and confusion, although self-voting is not really any more egregious than any other DPA.THIS IS ALSO KEY:
Mert wrote:I voted for myself in a Newbie I was in with Thesp because I wanted to emphasise the point that being at L-2 on the first couple of pages wasn't something to be scared about and certainly wasn't worth the big deal some of that town were making out of it. I had suspicions that at least one of those people going crazy about anyone placing a second vote was opportunistic scum and so I decided to put an end to it with a typical baiting of the scum along the lines of "come on, quicklynch me and out yourselves, hopefully we can wrap this up before teatime".
Unfortunately I was lynched, though probably through other elements of sub-optimal play on my part and not specifically for the self-vote. So while I wouldn't take self-voting in the RVS as meaning anything in particular, I know some people will go potty about it and see it as a much bigger scumtell than it probably is.
Note that the above is VERY selective quoting. There are plenty of experienced players who completely disagree and think self-voting is bad, all the time. But that's the POINT. It's NEUTRAL by virtue of the fact that it's sometimes good, sometimes terrible, and sometimes neither. People's OPINIONS don't change that. What farside and cephrir are putting forth are OPINIONS presumably based on personal experience. As evidenced by what I've cited above, it ALL DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION, and in the context of THIS GAME, it was not anti-town. It was a directive intended to achieve a very simple objective - namely, ending the unfounded, quickly forming wagon on me. I want to you all to note that so we can move past this ridiculousness and lynch farside.
Yes, I want farside lynched. That is why my vote is on her.Slice.-
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How in gods name did you draw that conclusion from that paragraph?farside wrote: Most of the ones you brought up where those who are vanilla town. This game has no vanilla. Second the key points. One was a late game I'm screwed type comment the first comment is people who self vote during the random phase. None of which you did. The I self votes are from people who self vote as meta and don't care. Do you have meta that you self vote?
In conclusion self voting is anti town.
I like pie. I like beer. In conclusion I have pet donkey.
Yeah I changed my mind. Not a scumtell. Called thinking about it.farside wrote: Al your case is me telling you it's anti town. I also pointed out your inconsistancy from saying my idea is cool to voting for me for said idea.
Right, to start discussion, which I said, and which it did.farside wrote: Placing a vote on a BP stating that it is a useless role as a reason and thinking it's a good reason to vote.
Um. I reacted reasonably to you attacking. That's what you're supposed to do in this game. Knee jerk my ass. Also, charter acted reasonably. You aren't.farside wrote: Your knee jerk reaction to my attacks. Also charter's unvote is noted as more of something I suspect a scum buddy to help out his scum buddy. So don't act all look at what charcter did attitude.
One example. You're saying something is universally true because you have one example where it happened. God. Even Cephrir disagrees with you on that one.farside wrote: As for scum that hammer check out Newbie 669 and Sens quick hammer on a claimed doc. Then show me a game where town quick hammered.
The rules of this game aren't made up of what you've seen and done. There's a lot more to it than that and you should realize that.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Just to clarify why you can't draw the "self-voting is anti-town" conclusion you made is wrong:farside wrote: Second the key points. One was a late game I'm screwed type comment the first comment is people who self vote during the random phase. None of which you did. The I self votes are from people who self vote as meta and don't care. Do you have meta that you self vote?
1. My whole point was that it isn't ALWAYS anti-town, so admit it. I want to hear you say it.
2. Of course I don't have that meta. I don't have a meta at all.
3. I also want you to realize and admit that my self-vote in this game was not anti-town.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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And here we see that farside is unable to accept overarching points and can only exist in her own universe. Clearly she's too close-minded to convince and accept that she's wrong. There ARE instances where self-voting is NOT anti-town and that's a FACT, like GRAVITY. I provided examples. You noted those examples. Those were instances where it wasn't anti-town, and my WHOLE POINT was that it is not an inherently anti-town act.farside wrote: 1. never
2. only people with meta get away with it. Nat always self votes but it's during the random stage.
3. never
I don't mean to attack you personally but YOU are wrong and as such YOU are what I must attack. You aren't supporting or putting forth an accurate point of view, you're attempting to convince people of something that is completely unfounded and based solely on the fact that you can't accept that you're wrong about something.
The timing of what was suspicious? That's the only time I would have done it. I wouldn't have self-hammered because I agree that self-HAMMERING is anti-town, but not self-voting.farside wrote: Yay! Call me stubborn but the timing is way suspicious.
Good do I really have to go to every freakin game where scum quick hammered to make you happy with my point? Seriously.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Yeah, that was an accident. You know I meant neutral since I said it so so so many other times.I wrote: Bring me some evidence of self-VOTING being anti-town.... then we'll talk. If you do, I'll bring some evidence of it being protown
I wasn't that helpful. It wasn't protown. It also wasn't anti-town. It was neutral. It would have been anti-town if I'd hammered, but I think it would have been anti-town for me to not put myself at L-1 there, too. That wagon was totally out of control stupid.Cephrir wrote: Anyway, there wasn't much of anything special about that situation that would make a selfvote helpful. That it's derailed the conversation so far is not particularly protown.
It IS fact. That's the thing - mine's not an opinion. It's a fact that there are times that self-voting has not been anti-town. I don't see how you can dispute that without being ignorant.Ceph wrote: You mentioned how farside's argument is just an opinion, but you seem to think your opinion is fact.
I agree that its irrelevant. It's a theory discussion and I'm trying to get past it by making farside realize it wasn't an anti-town action, but she won't accept that.Ceph wrote: This whole discussion is mostly irrelevant. It doesn't even matter who's right, and the fact that you're voting for each other over it seems pretty ridiculous to me.
I don't agree that I should remove my vote from farside. I had it on there for the reasons I stated, so I'm not voting her over that.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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I also think it's worth noting that all it took for farside to drop her whole case on me and unvote was for Oman to speak up against it and Ceph to "get the point":
Neither my vote reasons nor my note changed, but for some reason your vote did.farside wrote: Cephrir gets the point. Yay. Finally. I agree I was being a jerk because I feel like Occam is just being rediculous on his vote reasons.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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Occam Goon
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So if its pretty much always scum that quick hammer (something you said) - and if someone had quickhammered - then it would have been a one for one trade. I don't see how that's bad.farside wrote: I remember a game page 3 where scum did hammer someone at L-1 so yes if someone is town and thinks no scum wouldn't do something like that. They are living a lie or they are scum and have nothing to worry about.
Right, that's how I've felt about you this whole game so far. You've been pushing something you seem to know is wrong, which I don't get.farside wrote: Scum love to jump on opportunity when it comes to voting and lynching someone that is town.Slice.-
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Occam Goon
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