Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[Cephrir]

I think Ceph might be scum.

K, why?

If it was a bandwagon vote, why would I word it as though I hadn't noticed the other votes?

Fortified WIFOM.

Yes, but no. Seriously, there was no reason for me to do that given any possible alignment. I don't see why this sin't obvious to everyone else.

When I finished what I was saying and decided to random vote, I just looked up and his was the first name I saw.

Where did you look up? Are you saying that you specifically chose someone who already had votes on them? Because the most recent few posts before your vote were voting him.

I just remembered the name from the post right before mine.

It apears to me that the argument for me being scum postulates that I'm a complete idiot.

[charter]

I'm asking how voting for himself gains him sympathy, and why that only gives scum sympathy and not town. You still didn't explain this, please do. You saying it gains sympathy doesn't make it true. How is wanting to stop pressure on oneself any indicator of alignment? I don't think that he stopped pressure, he took quite a bit of flack for voting himself in fact.

He self voted to get to L-1 saying the BW was stupid. He has now stopped the backlash for the most part by doing that vote and now getting the it's null to self vote. BS!
self voting is not null I can count the number of times I votes myself and was scum.

Me too. Zero. Now that I think about it, I've only self voted as town. Looks like it must be a towntell then!

Saying look this case is such BS I'm self voting did exactly what he wanted which was stop pressure.

Yes, and how is wanting to stop pressure on oneself indicitive of scum and not town? I don't want pressure on me regardless of alignment.

farside, you are dodging all of my (scumhunting) questions, and not doing a good job of it at all either.

I think self voting when he did and saying it's town is terrible thing to say. It's not a null thing in my view. The are very, very few times I vote for self and

I can see scum doing it to gain sympathy.

You perceive it as a scumtell (as do most people I reckon), but you think scum would do it anyway to gain sympathy? How is committing a commonly accepted scumtell supposed to give scum sympathy? And how does it just give scum sympathy and not townies?

I would like direct answers to these questions please.

You tell me how self voting gains him sympathy as scum but can't give him sympathy as town.

You called me scum. That equals scummy. Wording a bit different but not by much. You being a grammar police now?

No, I'm trying to show that you're completely twisting the actual facts. Scum twist facts.

FACT - In my first post, I decreed three people scum and one a SK.
FACT - I gave ZERO reasoning for any of that.
FACT - You accuse me of saying one of your ideas is scummy.
FACT - I never said that idea was scummy. (I've already gotten over the fact that you made it up for me, now I want to know why) In fact, I didn't even read it, just saw a large chuck of text, and skipped it.
QUESTION - Why did you accuse me of thinking your idea was scummy, when I never said it was?
FACT - No one else I decreed scum or SK thought twice (or even acknowledged) my post.
CONJECTURE - farside is incredibly jumpy, and takes to being called scum MUCH more seriously than I think is warrented. I think she is scum.

(I very much like posting like that, I think I will do it more often)

[charter]

I think Ceph might be scum.

K, why?

Meta.

[Cephrir]

You could stand to be a bit more detailed.

[charter]

There really isn't any more detail.

[iamausername]

"And here we tinker with metal, to try to give it a kind of life, and suffer those who would scoff at our efforts. But who's to say that, if intelligence had evolved in some other form in past millennia, the ancestors of these beings would not now scoff at the idea of intelligence residing within meat?"

-- Prime Function Aki-Zeta 5, "The Fallacies of Self-Awareness"

-=Vote Count #3=-

Cephrir (4) - Gremwell, Occam, Oman, Empking
Occam (3) - MonkeyMan576, farside22, Drunken Piper
Oman (1) - Cephrir
farside22 (1) - charter

Not Voting (3) - christiano drago, Crazy, MacavityLock

7 to lynch.

[farside22]

FACT - In my first post, I decreed three people scum and one a SK.
FACT - I gave ZERO reasoning for any of that.
FACT - You accuse me of saying one of your ideas is scummy.
FACT - I never said that idea was scummy. (I've already gotten over the fact that you made it up for me, now I want to know why) In fact, I didn't even read it, just saw a large chuck of text, and skipped it.
QUESTION - Why did you accuse me of thinking your idea was scummy, when I never said it was?
FACT - No one else I decreed scum or SK thought twice (or even acknowledged) my post.
CONJECTURE - farside is incredibly jumpy, and takes to being called scum MUCH more seriously than I think is warrented. I think she is scum.

1 and 2 are Facts by the way.
3 why would you say I was scum and not read my post?
4. Why did you say I was scum with empking if you didn't read the post
Answer see points 3 and 4.
6 is a fact
conjecture is an opinion. I'm stating my opinion too. Weeee

farside, you are dodging all of my (scumhunting) questions, and not doing a good job of it at all either.

What question am I dodging. Oh wait I'm not I'm answering the questions and you don't like my answers that's all. How is voting for self not scummy again? Why did you unvote (still unanswered speaking of dodging questions)


Wah people are picking on me I'm going to vote self now.

Whatever the reason it was a way to gain sympathy from a few saying "wow this BW is moving fast and I don't like it"

meta is way over rated and is not a case.

[Occam]

I explained why I self-voted and it wasn't for "sympathy". I knew my wagon was ridiculous and unfounded and I knew being at L-1 would make people realize that. Charter was the first - he unvoted, and I did too. That's not sympathy, that's an objective, which farside apparently recognizes but still calls sympathy:

Whatever the reason it was a way to gain sympathy from a few saying "wow this BW is moving fast and I don't like it"

Do you disagree that it was moving way too fast? Because it was, and I don't see how you can argue that what I did was anti-town.

[farside22]

I explained why I self-voted and it wasn't for "sympathy". I knew my wagon was ridiculous and unfounded and I knew being at L-1 would make people realize that. Charter was the first - he unvoted, and I did too. That's not sympathy, that's an objective, which farside apparently recognizes but still calls sympathy:

Whatever the reason it was a way to gain sympathy from a few saying "wow this BW is moving fast and I don't like it"

Do you disagree that it was moving way too fast? Because it was, and I don't see how you can argue that what I did was anti-town.

Self voting is anti-town. Anyone who says different is smoking crack.

[Occam]

Self voting is anti-town. Anyone who says different is smoking crack.

Grr... that's totally untrue. I'm willing to bet most experienced players would completely disagree with you. It all depends on the situation.

Plus, anti-town doesn't = scum.

Plus, it wasn't anti-town.

I think farside is smoking crack.

[farside22]

Self voting is anti-town. Anyone who says different is smoking crack.

Grr... that's totally untrue. I'm willing to bet most experienced players would completely disagree with you. It all depends on the situation.

Plus, anti-town doesn't = scum.

Plus, it wasn't anti-town.

I think farside is smoking crack.

Really. Talk with Mr. Flay who will actually ban an IC who vote themselves when they are town. Look at the talks below and tell me how many people actually say it is not anti-town to self vote.
Your proof it's not anti town is......

[Occam]

Talk with Mr. Flay who will actually ban an IC who vote themselves when they are town.

Right, in a NEWBIE GAME. That's a completely different scenario, and it doesn't apply here.

[farside22]

Talk with Mr. Flay who will actually ban an IC who vote themselves when they are town.

Right, in a NEWBIE GAME. That's a completely different scenario, and it doesn't apply here.

Look at the talks below and tell me how many people actually say it is not anti-town to self vote.

[farside22]

Damn people keeping me up looking stuff up and all.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... light=self

As I said most people consider it anti town.

And Flay says it best as always:

Self-lynching is only useful as a Jester (a role which IMO shouldn't exist) or as scum. I did this to good advantage in Newbie 436 to throw off the town's read of D2 (after successfully arguing cicero out of doing it himself on D1). It cuts short discussion, throws off vote tracking, and otherwise disrupts with scumhunting.

It's NEVER a good idea as town. Anyone who threatens to do so should be lynched or beaten severely about the head and shoulders.

Your proof is?

[Oman]

Gremwell, monkeyman, crazy = Need more talkies.

[MonkeyMan576]

I feel pretty secure in my vote for Occum. He seems angry that he has been called out twice for scummy behavior and is acting accordingly.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is unlikely that they are both scum. That means either they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I think the first scenario is unlikely, I think they are on opposite teams. That means if we lynch one and they are town, then we can lynch the other one day 2(unless better info comes along), and they will likely be scum.

[Oman]

I don't see the link that the two cannot be on the same team.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't see the link that the two cannot be on the same team.

I didn't say they

can't

be, I said it's unlikely, because since Occum voted for Ceph they are probably both not mafia, and since they are both behaving anti-town they are probably both not town.[/u]

[Oman]

I think both are flawwed statements. An early distance in a wagon such as that does have a huge scum advantage.

[charter]

Also, it should be noted that since Occum voted for Ceph, it is unlikely that they are both scum. That means either they are both town, Occum is scum and Ceph is town, or Ceph is scum and Occum is town. Since they have both exhibited questionable behavior, I think the first scenario is unlikely, I think they are on opposite teams. That means if we lynch one and they are town, then we can lynch the other one day 2(unless better info comes along), and they will likely be scum.

Oman's right, this isn't necessarily true.
Fos monkeyman for pulling the "lynch them both" stunt.

@Farside, me saying I think Ceph could be scum because of meta hardly constitutes a case. I can see you aren't going to answer my questions, so I have to assume the answers incriminate you. As a side note, I'd be careful about linking to MD threads, I've been modkilled for doing it.

[Empking]

Obviously BP is not useless. If he plays a good protown game he can't be taken out. Yes, it is probably one of the weaker roles; I still don't get why that would automatically make him a lynch target.

Farside, those 5 reasons are basically the same reason a lot of times. #5 isn't even a reason to vote someone. Occam just voted and then was forced to defend his vote.

As Cephrr is only on three.

Unvote

Vote: Cephrir

Why?

Your bandwagoning.

[farside22]

@Farside, me saying I think Ceph could be scum because of meta hardly constitutes a case. I can see you aren't going to answer my questions, so I have to assume the answers incriminate you. As a side note, I'd be careful about linking to MD threads, I've been modkilled for doing it.

What question am I dodging. Oh wait I'm not I'm answering the questions and you don't like my answers that's all. How is voting for self not scummy again? Why did you unvote (still unanswered speaking of dodging questions)

[Occam]

Self-lynching is only useful as a Jester (a role which IMO shouldn't exist) or as scum. I did this to good advantage in Newbie 436 to throw off the town's read of D2 (after successfully arguing cicero out of doing it himself on D1). It cuts short discussion, throws off vote tracking, and otherwise disrupts with scumhunting.

It's NEVER a good idea as town. Anyone who threatens to do so should be lynched or beaten severely about the head and shoulders.

This is about self-LYNCHING! i SELF-VOTED. Obviously self-LYNCHING is anti-town, but that's not what I did, and obviously there is an ENORMOUS difference.

Monkey is wrong about everything he's said on this page and I love how he's setting up lynches in advance.

Fos: Monkey

[farside22]

Self-lynching is only useful as a Jester (a role which IMO shouldn't exist) or as scum. I did this to good advantage in Newbie 436 to throw off the town's read of D2 (after successfully arguing cicero out of doing it himself on D1). It cuts short discussion, throws off vote tracking, and otherwise disrupts with scumhunting.

It's NEVER a good idea as town. Anyone who threatens to do so should be lynched or beaten severely about the head and shoulders.

This is about self-LYNCHING! i SELF-VOTED. Obviously self-LYNCHING is anti-town, but that's not what I did, and obviously there is an ENORMOUS difference.

Monkey is wrong about everything he's said on this page and I love how he's setting up lynches in advance.

Fos: Monkey

What if for a second I believed you as town. What happens when you put yourself at L-1 and some scum still hasn't voted. Your vote, your single vote is in terms self lynching at that point. Deal with it.