Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

[farside22]

Dude, are you seriously asking me why you being scum is dangerous for the town? WTF is your deal? Scum is dangerous to the town by virtue of being scum - THAT'S THE FOUNDATION THE GAME IS FOUNDED ON.

Any role is dangerous in the hands of scum. The point is you targeted a BP role now you say to start conversation and nowhere till now did you even state that was your reason. I see a multitude of "reasons" why you voted as such. Each one sounds as fake as the next.

[Occam]

...and you're the Narcissist. You have decided that the only acceptable path for mankind is total submission to your will.

Each night, in addition to your usual night action (if any), you may also attempt to assassinate one of the other faction leaders. This kill cannot be redirected by Yang's power, or tracked by Roze's power or any player with Zakharov's Cloaking Device.

You win when you are the sole survivor, or if any phase (Day or Night) begins with exactly two players alive, and you are one of them.

Sounds like an SK to me.

[Occam]

Any role is dangerous in the hands of scum.

That's

precisely

my point, but I feel that BP is more dangerous than many others as a scum role for the reasons I stated.

The point is you targeted a BP role now you say to start conversation and nowhere till now did you even state that was your reason.

So you're saying that, when someone votes, they're required to say: "I am voting for DP because I want to start discussion". I'll tell you what happens when people come out with things like that - it goes nowhere. It's just like saying "I voted for you for pressure". It doesn't count anymore once you explain it. I'm not making up excuses for my vote - I'm telling you why I cast it.

I see a multitude of "reasons" why you voted as such. Each one sounds as fake as the next.

Where are these "multitude of reasons"? If I recall correctly I only gave one, and it was genuine.

People really need to realize that a vote is a TOOL, not just another number to add towards a lynch. If you really base your suspicions on someone utilizing that tool, then you probably catch people who understand how this game works more often than you catch scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

If people are randomly town or scum, that means the vig could be scum, which would be essentially a pro-scum SK.

[iamausername]

"Some civilian workers got in among the research patients today and became so hysterical I felt compelled to have them nerve stapled. The consequence, of course, will be another public relations nightmare, but I was severely shaken by the extent of their revulsion towards a project so vital to our survival."

-- CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Personal Diaries"

-=Vote Count #2=-

Occam (4) - MacavityLock, MonkeyMan576, farside22, Drunken Piper
Cephrir (3) - Gremwell, Occam, Oman
MacavityLock (1) - Empking
Oman (1) - Cephrir

Not Voting (3) - charter, christiano drago, Crazy

7 to lynch.

Mod:

If BulletProof Scum makes the kill does he retain his bulletproofedness?

Yes, passive abilities don't count as 'night actions'.

[Oman]

Yes it is normal for there to be an SK in smalltown. Its usally 8-3-1.

Occam - do you believe that DP is scum?

Farside - what does Occam's reactionary emotionalness say to you?

[christiano drago]

Hello everyone, I'm here at last after spending the night in the flat with no web access.

First few pages sprung up nicely, so I've read up and have a few points to make so far.

1. I somewhat agree that open bulletproof roles are useless to the town. No-one will waste a night kill on you and so it's going to be of little help to us as a group. It's no reason to throw a vote on someone though, that vote was scummy IMO.

2. Farside, did you not read the opening posts and thus didn't know about the Narcissism role? It's either that or you were looking for a really simple way to distance yourself from the SK slot.

No votes yet - I'll be back on later on today for that assuming there's more to go on. But an

FOS: Farside22

[Drunken Piper]

this was also interesting to me,
her answer I would really like to see.

(sip)

2. Farside, did you not read the opening posts and thus didn't know about the Narcissism role? It's either that or you were looking for a really simple way to distance yourself from the SK slot.

No votes yet - I'll be back on later on today for that assuming there's more to go on. But an

FOS: Farside22

I find it hard to believe that a recent mod, overlooked the SK. So you read the roles, but you completely missed the faction breakdown RIGHT UNDER THEM?

[Drunken Piper]

One other point,
up in this joint.

(sip)

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

you just ran a game that had 3 mafia and a SK...so this post is standing out.

[Occam]

Occam - do you believe that DP is scum?

No, not more than anyone else. I didn't really think he was scum when I voted for him - he hadn't even posted yet, so that's why I find it ridiculous that people think I actually wanted to lynch him.

I agree on the farside missing the SK thing - there were several posts that mentioned it, and it was on the roles page. Seems suspicious that she'd "overlook" it.

[Empking]

As Cephrr is only on three.

Unvote

Vote: Cephrir

Reading through last pages argument, I must say that I could see where Occam was coming from completely. I don't think its a useless role though. Just that the best scum hunter should've got it.

[farside22]

One other point,
up in this joint.

(sip)

Did I miss something on page one. I see nothing about a SK in the game. Is it normal for a SK in small town? I ask because the assumption there is a SK makes my head hurt.

you just ran a game that had 3 mafia and a SK...so this post is standing out.

Yes. All I saw when I took a quick look at the front was the characters. I did not see the post about alignments.
You really don't think I'm that stupid do you?

Farside - what does Occam's reactionary emotionalness say to you?

He is being emotional. It could be someone scared they got caught. Or a townie that is pissed at making a dumb mistake and not answering it well enough.
Seriously though I thinking the first and I will tell you why. Read the answer I have to the question below.

Where are these "multitude of reasons"? If I recall correctly I only gave one, and it was genuine.

Reason number 1 on your vote:

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:

Reason #2 for you vote:

Just FTR I still don't think BP is a significant town role in comparison to all the others.

Reason #3 for the BP vote:

I have explained to you why I think your role is useless compared to the rest. I never said you were. In fact, nothing in my case was based on anything you did. It was purely to motivate role discussion - which it did. You act like I had five votes or something - it was one vote.

Reason #4 for the BP vote:

But as far as roles go, BP is the least useful of the roles we have. Period. I'm done discussing BP and am ready to move on if you are - my vote is already elsewhere

Reason #5 for the BP vote:

So you're saying that, when someone votes, they're required to say: "I am voting for DP because I want to start discussion". I'll tell you what happens when people come out with things like that - it goes nowhere. It's just like saying "I voted for you for pressure".

What is the point of all this you ask. Well it's the fact he kept defending his point that BP is useless and then final says it was to start a conversation. I find this a cheap way to get out of something that was a person under pressure.

[Cephrir]

Obviously BP is not useless. If he plays a good protown game he can't be taken out. Yes, it is probably one of the weaker roles; I still don't get why that would automatically make him a lynch target.

Farside, those 5 reasons are basically the same reason a lot of times. #5 isn't even a reason to vote someone. Occam just voted and then was forced to defend his vote.

As Cephrr is only on three.

Unvote

Vote: Cephrir

Why?

[farside22]

Obviously BP is not useless. If he plays a good protown game he can't be taken out. Yes, it is probably one of the weaker roles; I still don't get why that would automatically make him a lynch target.

Farside, those 5 reasons are basically the same reason a lot of times. #5 isn't even a reason to vote someone. Occam just voted and then was forced to defend his vote.

As Cephrr is only on three.

Unvote

Vote: Cephrir

Why?

Yes however he did state he got the conversation started as a defense which irked me even more because as I pointed out he never stated that as a reason the number of times he defended it. All he states over and over again is the uselessness of a role. Hell I almost took BP myself just so I could live past day one. (seriously look at how many times I survive pass night 0 these days).

[charter]

My idea was to see if someone would call it scummy for bringing it up such as charter did.

False, where did I call it scummy?

I think self voting when he did and saying it's town is terrible thing to say. It's not a null thing in my view. The are very, very few times I vote for self and I can see scum doing it to gain sympathy.

You perceive it as a scumtell (as do most people I reckon), but you think scum would do it anyway to gain sympathy? How is committing a commonly accepted scumtell supposed to give scum sympathy? And how does it just give scum sympathy and not townies?

For the record, I see it as a null tell as well. I don't see any advantage scum gains over town for doing it.

116- Christ, you want the first person you vote for lynched? Occam is right on this one.

I don't see anything wrong or scummy with Occam's posts.
I think Ceph might be scum.
I will

vote farside

because I think she is scum.

[farside22]

I think self voting when he did and saying it's town is terrible thing to say. It's not a null thing in my view. The are very, very few times I vote for self and I can see scum doing it to gain sympathy.

You perceive it as a scumtell (as do most people I reckon), but you think scum would do it anyway to gain sympathy? How is committing a commonly accepted scumtell supposed to give scum sympathy? And how does it just give scum sympathy and not townies?

For the record, I see it as a null tell as well. I don't see any advantage scum gains over town for doing it.

116- Christ, you want the first person you vote for lynched? Occam is right on this one.

I don't see anything wrong or scummy with Occam's posts.
I think Ceph might be scum.
I will

vote farside

because I think she is scum.

Voting for himself at and not a hammer to gain sympathy is scummy. He succeed to stopping pressure from a horrid comment.
He succeed in getting you to unvote why is that exactly?

I see scum I will lynch scum. Go me.

Really you know who the BP hurts, scum or the SK. Not the town that is for sure. It is one less person for the scum or SK to not focus on so who else would want to get rid of a "useless" role?
So you think Ceph is scum but think I'm scum with no reason. Lovely. Good scum hunting skills if you have them.

[farside22]

Whether sarcastic or not (IE sarcasm is not always noticeable on the computer) you did call me scum
[quote="charter"]

SCUM - Empking + farside

[quote]

[charter]

Voting for himself at and not a hammer to gain sympathy is scummy. He succeed to stopping pressure from a horrid comment.

I'm asking how voting for himself gains him sympathy, and why that only gives scum sympathy and not town. You still didn't explain this, please do. You saying it gains sympathy doesn't make it true. How is wanting to stop pressure on oneself any indicator of alignment? I don't think that he stopped pressure, he took quite a bit of flack for voting himself in fact.

He succeed in getting you to unvote why is that exactly?

Why did I unvote? I didn't want him lynched that fast, that wasn't obvious with my statement of all the games I've been in with super fast lynches have resulted in town losses?

Really you know who the BP hurts, scum or the SK. Not the town that is for sure. It is one less person for the scum or SK to not focus on so who else would want to get rid of a "useless" role?
So you think Ceph is scum but think I'm scum with no reason. Lovely. Good scum hunting skills if you have them.

I think BP helps all alignments, as you can coast through as long as you don't paint a target on yourself during the day, decreasing the chance that your alignment in lynched. Living long in the game is desired by all alignments.

I asked you questions because your statements don't add up, that sounds like scumhunting to me.

Whether sarcastic or not (IE sarcasm is not always noticeable on the computer) you did call me scum

SCUM - Empking + farside

I said right after that it wasn't serious, so you knew it wasn't serious. I called you scum, sure, but where did I say your idea was scummy? So, back to the original question, where did I call [farside's idea] scummy?

Think I'm on to something here guys.

[MacavityLock]

Unvote.

I see now what Occam's point is, and I can see how it can come from a townie. I'm dealing with finals, and I don't have enough time for a complete dig, so I'm not going to vote just yet. But I'm a bit worried about a few things.

If it was a bandwagon vote, why would I word it as though I hadn't noticed the other votes?

Fortified WIFOM.

When I finished what I was saying and decided to random vote, I just looked up and his was the first name I saw.

Where did you look up? Are you saying that you specifically chose someone who already had votes on them? Because the most recent few posts before your vote were voting him.

This sequence struck me as strange.

Every game I've been in with a lynch in 3 or so pages or less for day one has resulted in a town loss... More later.

How many games is that, charter? Links please?

Even if charter hasn't actually been in any games like this and is lying, does it tell you anything about him?

Other weirdness:

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:

vote: DP

...

Please explain to me your reasoning behind this statement? How is me being bulletproof DANGEROUS to the town? I am not lynch proof..or investigation proof…RB proof.. Other than the vig, who else uses bullets and how does that make me dangerous…

Occam is quite clearly saying that BP is a dangerous scum power. This is either a clear misrep or you're admitting that you're scum.

[yorgi]

I'm asking how voting for himself gains him sympathy, and why that only gives scum sympathy and not town. You still didn't explain this, please do. You saying it gains sympathy doesn't make it true. How is wanting to stop pressure on oneself any indicator of alignment? I don't think that he stopped pressure, he took quite a bit of flack for voting himself in fact.

He self voted to get to L-1 saying the BW was stupid. He has now stopped the backlash for the most part by doing that vote and now getting the it's null to self vote. BS!
self voting is not null I can count the number of times I votes myself and was scum.
Saying look this case is such BS I'm self voting did exactly what he wanted which was stop pressure. Look at this page.

Here is what I said:

My idea was to see if someone would call it scummy for bringing it up such as charter did.

You called me scum. That equals scummy. Wording a bit different but not by much. You being a grammar police now?

So if I self vote I'm town? Really should I try and see if someone hammers me instead of unvotes like you did.

Think I'm on to something here guys.

Really me too. I like my case and reason's better. Your case is what exactly?

[farside22]

What yorgi said. ^

[MacavityLock]

Hello, failed alt :}

[farside22]

Hello, failed alt :}

I have the power to delete that post, but mods are not happy with people who do that so sucks that I failed at logging out.

[Occam]

What is the point of all this you ask. Well it's the fact he kept defending his point that BP is useless and then final says it was to start a conversation. I find this a cheap way to get out of something that was a person under pressure.

As Ceph said you cited the same reason worded 5 different ways. That's one reason. How is my saying BP is useless, and also saying I voted him to start discussion, even remotely contradictory?