Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[Occam]

Appeal to Emotion:

I just love being a guinie pig to see if Gremwell is scum or not.

Monkey really doesn't have solid answers to the questions directed towards him or the points raised against him. He's fallen back on making it look like we're just using him to check if Gremwell's scum when it's clear to anyone actually reading that the case against him is much more than that.

I'd really be surprised if Monkey isn't scum. Whether or not Gremwell is scum doesn't necessarily hinge on Monkey being scum, either, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. They could both be scum, like I said, and it wouldn't surprise me, as I've said many times, but the cases against both Grem and Monkey are independent of one another, so I think its worth noting that Monkey himself brought this up.

[MonkeyMan576]

Appeal to Emotion:

I just love being a guinie pig to see if Gremwell is scum or not.

Monkey really doesn't have solid answers to the questions directed towards him or the points raised against him. He's fallen back on making it look like we're just using him to check if Gremwell's scum when it's clear to anyone actually reading that the case against him is much more than that.

I'd really be surprised if Monkey isn't scum. Whether or not Gremwell is scum doesn't necessarily hinge on Monkey being scum, either, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. They could both be scum, like I said, and it wouldn't surprise me, as I've said many times, but the cases against both Grem and Monkey are independent of one another, so I think its worth noting that Monkey himself brought this up.

'

Occum is just trying to mask his own scummy behavior. There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it. All I ask is that if I'm lynched, when I come up town you look at those that drove my lynch.

[Cephrir]

There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it.

...That's not true, and you know it.

[Occam]

There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it.

Yeah... that's why you were put at L-1... because no one thinks there's no solid case against you... /sarcasm.

PS, here's another appeal...

All I ask is that if I'm lynched, when I come up town you look at those that drove my lynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's no solid case against me and everyone knows it.

...That's not true, and you know it.

The primary case against me is my "reaction" to being voted on without any reason and switching my vote to someone I actually believe to be scummy, so my point is the case against me is very thin and I'm a townie through and through. It's not like my power can be used for scum without being obvious.

[iamausername]

"We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?"

--Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 (Subject termination advised)

-=Vote Count #14=-

MonkeyMan576 (5) - Empking, Oman, MacavityLock, Raging Rabbit, Occam
Gremwell (4) - charter, Drunken Piper, Cephrir, MonkeyMan576

Not Voting (3) - farside22, Gremwell, Yosarian2

7 to lynch.

-=Yosarian2 replaces christiano drago=-

[Oman]

Welcome Yos2. Now don't make me lynch you, do some talkin'!

[Raging Rabbit]

MM's reads are mostly negative, as can be expected from scum who wants to keep his options open. Two points of note are me being his most pro town read, for a bad reason - stating I've been consisntantly scumhunting, when I just replaced in - probably a blatant attempt to link us, and having Oman at neutral for being a "follower" - which I don't think he has been - which could be a way to stay noncomittal on him, indicating a possible link.


Welcome, Yos. Interested in hearing your thoughts on things before we end the day.

[MonkeyMan576]

I hope everyone(especially townies voting for me), can see how silly Occum's and RR's arguments are.

[Raging Rabbit]

Could you give some examples of why Oman's a "follower"?

[MonkeyMan576]

Could you give some examples of why Oman's a "follower"?

I don't see why it matters, as you're determined to see me as scum.

[Raging Rabbit]

You should though, it's good for your town act. That way it'll look like you're trying to supply us with leads for later.

[MonkeyMan576]

You should though, it's good for your town act. That way it'll look like you're trying to supply us with leads for later.

I'm glad to see you're admitting to you're tunnel vision.

FOS: RagingRabbit

[Raging Rabbit]

You have a very creative way of interperting posts.

Serisouly, if you're a townie, why not supply us this info?

[Yosarian2]

Hello, everyone. Will read game and get caught up soon.

[Yosarian2]

Starting to read now...don't expect to get very far tonight, but meh, mise well get started.

Also, any thoughts I have might already have been said by someone else, since I'm just responding to stuff as I see it.

Bulletproof sounds dangerous in the hands of scum and essentially useless for town, since everyone already knows who's bulletproof. Based on that:

vote: DP

That reminds me - Mmm, doctor pepper...

How is bulletproof "dangerous in the hands of scum"? I mean, they can't be vigged, but they can still be lynched, right?

Actually, it seems to me like an ideal thing for the town would be to see if we can get the bulletproof into a confirmed innocent (through cop investigaton or one-shot mason, I guess). If the bulletproof guy becomes a confirmed innocent, then he will never be lynched, can never be nightkilled, and it should really help the town; I mean, having a confirmed innocent who's 100% guarenteed to still be alive in endgame should improve town's chances a lot of winning that endgame, right? I mean, one confirmed innocent in a 3 man endgame helps a HUGE amount.

[charter]

I just love being a guinie pig to see if Gremwell is scum or not.

How do you figure this?

MM's reads are mostly negative, as can be expected from scum who wants to keep his options open. Two points of note are me being his most pro town read, for a bad reason - stating I've been consisntantly scumhunting, when I just replaced in - probably a blatant attempt to link us, and having Oman at neutral for being a "follower" - which I don't think he has been - which could be a way to stay noncomittal on him, indicating a possible link.

I wouldn't expect cornered scum to have negative reads on everyone. I'd expect it to be the opposite in fact. I do agree with your two comments though.

I'm still pushing the Gremwell lynch, I think he's been way scummier than MM, speaking of which

can we get a prod/replacement on Gremwell, he hasn't posted in over a week.

[Occam]

@Yos - a CONFIRMED TOWN bp is one thing - an unconfirmed town BP is another. If the bp is town that's great. But we don't know what he is, and until we do, I still say he's no help. If he becomes confirmed as town that's a different story. Obviously the scum know what he is, though, so until we figure it out, he's helping the scum more than us - they can just shoot around him.

I do think it's worth considering having the cop or mason target the bp tonight, though. If he's scum we lynch him, and if he's town he becomes useful to us.

[MonkeyMan576]

You have a very creative way of interperting posts.

Serisouly, if you're a townie, why not supply us this info?

There's no point in taking questions for someone who's not open minded to your alliance. The point of questioning is to determine if someone is innocent or guilty, not to lay trap after trap until something sticks. I'll have more than enough opportunities to prove my towniness in the future.

[MonkeyMan576]

How do you figure this?

I point out that with Occum and Gremwell, two people I have pointed out as scummy, having not voted for me yet, and me being at L-2, that they would have enough votes by themselves to hammer me. Then Occum(predictably) votes for me, saying he wants to "see what happens", clearly implying that he wants to see if Gremwell will vote for me or not not. To me, Occum is trying to cover his losses, since he can always say voting at L-2 for a townie is not as scummy as voting for L-1 for a townie. In actuality, however, this seems to be a variation on appeal to probability, and nearly just as scummy as Gremwell's potential hammer(which can't be done now with Farside's unvote). In actuality, it might be MORE scummy, because it relies on two scummy actions, the vote itself, and the appeal to probability.

[MacavityLock]

Scale of 1-10, 1=scum, 10=town
MacavityLock - Foreman Domai, Roleblocker
(7) - Solid scum hunter

I am Monkey's 2nd towniest read. What does it say about Monkey when he says that I'm a "Solid scum hunter" when the only bandwagon I've been on with any conviction is his?

Once Yos2 makes his posts and Grem returns, can we just end this?

[MonkeyMan576]

Scale of 1-10, 1=scum, 10=town
MacavityLock - Foreman Domai, Roleblocker
(7) - Solid scum hunter

I am Monkey's 2nd towniest read. What does it say about Monkey when he says that I'm a "Solid scum hunter" when the only bandwagon I've been on with any conviction is his?

Once Yos2 makes his posts and Grem returns, can we just end this?

I meant that you've been attempting to look for scum, not that your reads have been correct. IMHO, someone who makes an honest attempt to look for scum and is wrong, is better than someone who is lurking or hindering the town.

[Drunken Piper]

Updating from page 13
Xmas is done, and I am none to lean.

(burp)

I'm acutally using SCUM for mafia onyl because of S.C.U.M. and the like confusing me. I'm now moving to both sk and mafia = scum.

Yay

@ DP -
Is that a self-imposed post restriction?

roger roger

Well, if people don't start voting Gremwell soon I'm just going to move on to MM. I still think Gremwell is the scummiest, but MM and farside are right behind.

Why?
Oh I see Emp asks the same thing in 314. This posts has a strange vibe to it. I wonder what the answer will be.

I think MM is scum too. MM has more votes and none of the people voting him will vote for Gremwell for who knows what reason. It's kind of sad, but I'm actually kind of waivering on MM, mostly because of the ease at which people will vote him, and the difficulty in getting people to vote Gremwell (who is far scummier).

How do you know people will not change their votes? If you are waivering on MM, why would you change your vote to him?

No, I'm saying that you're changing your vote to Gremwell because others are doing it.

or he is doing it to save his ass....which is fine.

All right then...

Unvote: Occum
Vote: Gremwall

Why are you in a rush to finish off this bandwagon?

why are you not voting anybody and casting blame on someone who is? Take a stances on some people today for me. I don’t understand your vote on MM. I mean I know why I think he is scummy, but this seems out of no where. If Grem DOES flip scum, I will be exploring this further.

+++
End of Page 15 both MM and Grem are at -2. Also noting nothing is coming from the Grem front…but it is the holidays sooo…note: Grem has not posted anywhere on site since the 20th.

Mod: prod time?

The case against me is really weak. Any townie should see that. Any time anyone says I'm scummy, they fail to actually say the reasons I am scum. And the only reason people have to say I am scummy, those actions are totally reasonable and NOT scummy.

shitty post. I have seen several long posts why you are scummy.

I don't agree that I'm not scumhunting, I've already stated that Occum and Gremwall are the two scummiest, as far as I'm concerned.

what does stating you think someone is scum have to do with scumhunting?
+++

MM calls Occ stupid and Occ puts him at -1

Now, either you think Gremwell is scum, or you think I'm scum.

Methinks the Monkey doth protest too much. When Monkey flips scum, I think there's a good chance that Grem is a buddy.

why is that?

+++
No more discussing vigs….we should be discussing how we are going to claim tomorrow…I think Dicecorn (Popcorn Dice) It is the most random so scum can not manipulate.

Appeal to Emotion:

i utterly hate all things AtE. I think it is a device that scum uses to push bullshit cases. AtE is not a case.

+++

Welcome Yos

I do think it's worth considering having the cop or mason target the bp tonight, though. If he's scum we lynch him, and if he's town he becomes useful to us.

please lets not talk about night actions ANYMORE. The idea is out there. If someone wants to do it they will. But NO PLANS should be formulated today.

I still like my vote where it is. grem needs to post, but I dont like some of the statements used to push the MM case. that being said, I think that there are some valid cases against MM (yes there are MM). Interested in hearing Yos's thoughts.

[Empking]

Straight Popcorn is better.

[Raging Rabbit]

I wouldn't expect cornered scum to have negative reads on everyone. I'd expect it to be the opposite in fact. I do agree with your two comments though.

The top two town reads are the two players who were attacking him the most recently, so he does his share of buddying up as well (even complimenting our good scumhunting, as ML pointed out, which makes no sense whatsoeveer with him as town).

I do think it's worth considering having the cop or mason target the bp tonight, though. If he's scum we lynch him, and if he's town he becomes useful to us.

There's no cop in this setup, that'd really unbalance things. The closest thing is my role, tracker, and targeting BP will either prove he's scum or that he isn't the SK or the S.C.U.M who performed the kill, which doesn't clear him. Not sure it's the best option. Having the masonier target him could lead to him getting NK'd by either faction, which would create a wall of WIFOM. Kinda hard to get a truely confirmed innocent here.

There's no point in taking questions for someone who's not open minded to your alliance. The point of questioning is to determine if someone is innocent or guilty, not to lay trap after trap until something sticks. I'll have more than enough opportunities to prove my towniness in the future.

An answer won't convince me you're innocent, but why not supply the town with more info regarding your reads? You're the most likely lynch, after all, and if you're a townie it benefits you to leave us with as many thoughts as possible. So, what makes you consider Oman a "follower"?

If you want to argue your towniness, you can always stop ignoring my original set of question.