NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Uberninja

gettin 442 out of my system

[borkjerfkin]

Ok so far --

bonertime i honestly don't really care about right now -- his questioning has been pro-town, and though I don't agree with the early push on bitmap, I'm inclined to give him a pass because I think he's gonna help us win even if he's scum.

bitmap is pretty gut town. #86 isn't coming from scum; he's not even attempting to be careful about the flow of his reads.

Om gets the Nobody Special treatment...I want him policy lynched or shot at some point.

I also don't get anyone's town read on vifam other than it looks like he doesn't give a fuck. The huge boner buddying sure isn't doing it for me.

I don't like Majiffy this game...mozamis looks pretty town to me and I don't know what Majiffy's on about with him.

I don't get the penguin hate either.

Herobrine's 374 is reachy as shit and is a gross overjustification for a vote over penguin 283. 391 sucks too.
VOTE: Herobrine

Anyone I didn't mention I don't have a strong opinion about yet.

[borkjerfkin]

I actually missed that he was sheeping the penguin case, and that's my bad, but I want to be clear:

Are you calling him out for sheeping or are you calling him out for sheeping that particular case? Because #390 looks like the former.

[borkjerfkin]

I actually missed that he was sheeping the penguin case, and that's my bad, but I want to be clear:

Are you calling him out for sheeping or are you calling him out for sheeping that particular case? Because #390 looks like the former.

I'm calling him out for not doing any thinking of his own all game. The sheeping is just one part of that long trend.

Really not seeing this -- he came right in with some reads. See #93, #98, #114...pretty much everything but the sheeping. What are your examples?

Plus his really bad reactions to being called out.

I disagree -- this is primarily why I had him as town. He doesn't seem flustered or flaily. #392 is overly snarky -- not a scumtell and I think an appropriate reaction to what seems to be an accusation of "sheeping therefore scum" (from his POV). Again, examples?

[borkjerfkin]

Catching up --

Literally the only thing in Mollie's iso that initially bugged me is the first paragraph of #740 and upon rereading it doesn't even seem that bad to me. I find her suspicion of Matt (in the context of being the only one exhibiting such suspicion) null -- I can see town her just being paranoid or scum her smart enough to realize the value of attempting to discredit him, but really the rest of her iso is just posting reads and responding to yet another super reachy case from Herobrine. Why did that wagon die? Lots of people are still calling him scummy. Anyway I have a weak town read on Mollie for looking like she's trying to figure shit out.

I get Matt's wagon analysis, but you're assuming that one of Mollie/Mhork has to be scum there -- why not just go after people on the Mollie wagon if you think the Mhork wagon is town driven instead of Mhork who hasn't even been around since it's really even become a true wagon? I guess just as importantly, I don't get any real scum read off Mhork either. He's just tunneling mollie. So? Null on him.

IAI also doesn't strike me as particularly scummy -- I actually am reading him town due to #759. I don't get what's scummy about #763 at all.

Underachivers looks, I dunno....dumb for even attempting to push this Josh thing but I don't see how it's scum motivated. Moz looks worse for taking it seriously.
p-edit and looks better again for 3 posts above this.

I have a town read on zab.

Chk doesn't look great to me for #759 as a followup to #608, where Majiffy joined him on a wagon? Am I reading this wrong?

Anyway I don't like any of the developing wagons and this is troubling. Leaving my vote where it is for the moment.

[borkjerfkin]

Hmmm Uberninja seems hyper aggressive. Lots of swearing etc Gonna check her meta. Can sometimes be a scumtell.
Anyone else knwo anything about her meta?

I played one prior game with Uber, we were both town, and, well, lets just say aggressive doesn't even begin to cover it.

No experience with him as scum so I dunno if he'd be acting differently if he were. I do think the PbP thing he's doing is pretty worthless though and skipped most of it.

Well, Uber looks less aggressive in those other games. 3 games aren't conclusive, but I think she's worth keeping an eye on. Or is Uber a he? Anyway yeah

Less aggressive elsewhere or less aggressive here?

[borkjerfkin]

Oooh I can be prodded. Also why should we trust you not too change wagons again?

I don't like this post...it's like Matt's interfering with your coasting or what? (I assume that's who you're talking to)

[borkjerfkin]

Eh, I'm not even factoring bankable deadlines into the game. I retract my statement.

[borkjerfkin]

I meant that what you said makes sense now.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: underachivers

As I said earlier, I don't see anything scummy about going for Josh earlier, as ill advised as I believe that to be, but I see no feasible way for that to have somehow bridged into post #1035 where so many people are scum reads without a whole lot of reference or interaction with many of them. There's no attempt to reconcile the large number of scum reads either.

I don't think Matt is scum -- the assertion that he's scummy for jerking town around by the dick in order to waste the bankable deadline is a huge huge stretch to me.

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy - I saw something earlier that made me think he was scummy. you would have to know him in order to get it. and it might not even be legit. I have a tendency to get super duper paranoid about him in general but I learned to just ride it out.

if he is town he will find scum if he is scum he will wind up bussing his teammates at some point. win/win either way to leave him in the game longer.

Heh I think I made that point in Micro 99.

[borkjerfkin]

So you don't think I'm scummy for going for Josh but....I'm still scum? The hell? Its a 21 player game and there are gonna be like 5-6 scum. I don't see why my suspecting multiple suspects is "bad". Casting a wider net is more likely to hit scum. Unless you are scum and you know that I'm off there's no reason to attack me for suspecting others. So its like your voting me for the sake of voting? Was my town read on you wrong?

Here's a better way of putting it -- how do you get from pushing the lurkiest of lurkers, which I find a dubious move as either alignment (hence why I call it null) and one that I'd only ever make if I had no other leads, to having a pool of 9 people that you'll lynch? Casting a wider net is only as good as the criteria for people you're putting in that net.

Also, Mhork had 9 lynch candidates for today. Why am I suspicious but he is not?

I had to look this up, so I admit it wasn't something I remembered at all, but I have to assume you're talking about the middle of #1048 where he lists 9 people? Do I really have to explain why saying "I think 1 or 2 out of my wagon (this 9 people) are scum" which is what he's saying and "These 9 are all scumreads" which is what you're saying?

[borkjerfkin]

More people need to ignore the current I_Am_Innocent and TheUnderachivers wagons and vote for pirate mollie.

Swtich Mollie with JS and this post is gold. JS is scum and everyone avoiding JS is suspect.

Yep this is how mafia works.


In other news I like how UN's wall has underacheeevers (the lead wagon) "going way up on his scumdar" but totally wants everyone to ignore it in favor of mollie.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes.

a UN scum flip would also imply TUA scum and mollie town. a TUA scum flip would imply UN scum and nothing about mollie.

[borkjerfkin]

Why were you behind it initially?

[borkjerfkin]

Ok....What happened between then and now? I mean if you think there is no strong case against him now, then there sure wasn't at the point you voted him.

Did you look at my #1062 and #1069?

[borkjerfkin]

If this wagon dies I'm going to Uberninja

[borkjerfkin]

*rolls eyes*

[borkjerfkin]

He is null as shit. Why is #908 bad (your words)? I thought his explanation made sense in the context of bankable deadlines.

I would policy lynch him if we had to. Which we don't.

[borkjerfkin]

@hydra -- First two points are policy lynch points so sure.

I don't agree with three (especially in the context of bankable deadline -- scum should have no problem with this wagon going away, even moreso if it's on a scumbuddy) and I don't even understand four.

p-edit: @IAI -- I don't see any evidence of that in #908 -- he's obviously playing the "I'm sheeping MattP" card, which I still call null.

[borkjerfkin]

I still think this Jacob wagon is not where we need to be right now -- there's just not enough there to me that screams scum over lazy/uninterested player, but IAI seems of even less substance.

@Majiffy -- I have no desire to self-meta so I'm not even going to bother arguing whatever soft attack you're trying to make against me. Otherwise whatever, I rarely have any fucking idea what to make of you. You're not being terribly opportunistic you're just generating tons of fucking noise.

AP is town, seems very likely he had no idea chkflip was dying. Bitmap was town too.
@AP -- do you really think Vifam and Matt are scum together? That seems horribly impossible.

I also don't like Vifam's 1475 or his relentless buddying of Matt (which is why I don't think they're scum together)
VOTE: Vifam

Uber's done a total 180 content-wise since yesterday. He can go back to null for now until I reread him.

Zab's probably town for 1509 alone; I certainly don't see a compelling case here.

Mollie is leaning town but in the past I've either 1) found her super towntelling early on or 2) been scum myself so I'm just relying on the appearance of attempting to peel away the game layers here. She's actually making more sense than usual to me.

[borkjerfkin]

Nice cop-out. Have you re-read me yet?

What exactly am I copping out of?

What is the point of the list? Which is in effect in this game?

What are you even talking about?

VOTE: Uberninja
Uber's Vifam vote is fucking horrible and makes me rethink the entire wagon
And trying to tack on being useless as a reason for Vifam doesn't jive with what he thinks of Jacob
Also his PbP walls are just a license to take shit out of context

[borkjerfkin]

def. comfortable with Mollie town now

[borkjerfkin]

1266 mostly, but it's more about her response than it was about Uber being the one that she's responded to

[borkjerfkin]

borky why are you having to work so hard to justify a town read on me?

How do you figure? AP asked me about it.

[borkjerfkin]

@Bork: Wouldn't say you are 'working hard' to justify a Mollie town read, but its kind of a weak reason. Mollie's post was just a short pbpa jab. I think Mollie is town, but that post in particular was just kind of neutral. I dunno.

I (obviously) don't agree. I think it was a pretty good combo of calling UN on inconsistencies and making some useful negative connections based on that and it doesn't seem faked.

I also echo Majiffy's question above. Uber's just taking indiscriminate potshots at people via difficult to follow PbP walls and seeing what sticks.

[borkjerfkin]

Honestly if he doesnt die today Im the fuck out of this game. Not doing this shit again.

[borkjerfkin]

Also explain to me how UN fucking deflecting everything I say with ad hominem is fucking town

[borkjerfkin]

Vifam is an alright choice, but if we're playing to win here, Majiffy should die, because his reads make no fucking sense and also because of his epic push to get Underachivers lynched on Day 1 even though it was obvious as fuck that they were town, and even MORE so in hindsight?

Are you fucking serious you were practically calling them scum with mollie

[borkjerfkin]

Eat a dick.

[borkjerfkin]

How bout you actually answer the questions I asked you instead of being a shithead?

[borkjerfkin]

Attempting to calm down.

Here:

TUA (was in response to me I think):
" In post 1067, TheUnderachivers wrote:So you don't think I'm scummy for going for Josh but....I'm still scum? The hell? Its a 21 player game and there are gonna be like 5-6 scum. I don't see why my suspecting multiple suspects is "bad". Casting a wider net is more likely to hit scum. Unless you are scum and you know that I'm off there's no reason to attack me for suspecting others. So its like your voting me for the sake of voting? Was my town read on you wrong?"

Your response:
"The way this post is worded reminds me of how I've seen scum act before.

They bargain with their own town reads and say "okay I guess my town read on you was wrong" when people say things they don't like. And the reason this is significant is because scum attach more inherent value to appearing town, than townies do. So they use it as a bartering chip, and feel like it will be a magic bullet. But it's not, because townies aren't trying to look town. They're trying to find scum.

TheUnderachivers goes way up on the scumdar."

Equate this to obvtown -- I got no impression that you thought that from your ISO at any point.

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway

From the stuff UN linked he's really at best soft-defending TUA (even TUA themselves point this out) and this is why I thought that a TUA scumflip would be a slam dunk UN scumflip. Ultimately I retract the argument that you were calling TUA scum.

The stuff I said today about UN's jump on the Vifam wagon I stand behind and I'm not going to back down just because he's being mean to me.

@AP -- I had a townread on Zab on D1 otherwise all those players are pretty much low fliers to me (except Matt but he seems to be on the drugs since D2)

[borkjerfkin]

If we'd gotten scum D1 honestly I don't think that post from Zab is bad at all. Even as it is it sounds like he's trying to cut through the noise.

Penguin's lending credence to Uberninja's grammar theory is the only bad thing I can see from her.

[borkjerfkin]

UberNinja's willingness to cop to misinterpreting Vifam's grammar thing makes me think the former is town, although I don't see that I was unreasonable in asking UberNinja to back up his original statement. If he'd come back telling me to check out any/all of Vifam's games to see such a tell in action, I'd have tracked it/them down, but given that Vifam seems to have around 50 games, and I'd think if some straightforward tell had existed in all of them he'd have adjusted accordingly, I don't think it was unreasonable to ask UberNinja to back up the point originally.

The point was objectively a bad point and I don't like that you're humoring it.

[borkjerfkin]

Those both express the same opinion.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm probably willing to sheep Mollie at this point, but other than that my compromises from recently talked about candidates would probably be in the realm of (penguin = arcangel (bad vibes) > jacob (policy) >> zab = IAI (dunno)

[borkjerfkin]

Herobrine was on my list from yesterday; mostly forgot about that slot today.

Reading up on Rev case.

[borkjerfkin]

What part of "Reading up on Rev case" implies "I'm gonna go ahead and hop on this here wagon in a bit regardless of what I read?"

Should I just dismiss it out of hand?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm thinking pidgeon is town, just because he's putting his neck on the block with his push against me. It's beyong OMGUS, he actually thinks I'm scum. He's wrong, but if he's scum, he doesn't think I'm scum. I think he's sincere in his belief. So yeah, I'm wrong about pidgeon it seems. But mhork jumps on without a care, bork and moz are preparing to. There's scum here.

Also explain this more -- how is his neck on the chopping block exactly if he's wrong?

[borkjerfkin]

Because I was naming him as a scum read and then he's all OMG rev is scum 100%... that's gonna bring him a ton of heat when I flip town.

I think this is a bit naive, but fine.

Yeah, it's bollocks.

Opinion noted. I'm still gonna read it.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: IAI

[borkjerfkin]

WHY DO YOU THINK IVE BEEN SO DEADSET ON IAI ALL DAY THOUGH

OBVIOUSLY I HAD SOME REASON TO BE AN OBSTINATE PRICK WITH LIL TO NO REASONING

you were deadset on IaI on d1

how do you know they have a gun? I am confused, I have never come across your role before. when did you say you were a hider.

He did say he was a hider earlier, but I thought he was trolling just like all the other things he/boner police fakeclaimed beginning of game.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I don't even remember that part, I just wrote it off.

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy that's an EM gunsmith

an MS gunsmith checks to see if the target HAS a gun. Certain roles do and certain roles don't.

[borkjerfkin]

IAI definitely hasn't mentioned wanting to kill Mollie on D2 at all when he was gunning for her on D1, which is a point in his favor, although I think she's a non-optimal cop target.

UNVOTE:
Even more willing to sheep Mollie today now.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: AA

[borkjerfkin]

I don't have a case on Arc. She's a good compromise.

Why you being weird with asking for sheep and asking for cases simultaneously?

[borkjerfkin]

i tried to read that as an acrostic with a hidden message in it

it didn't work

but just in case, BWAWB to you too

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea what to make of Matt, but it seems rather unlikely he knew this claim was coming, so...I don't get the wagon on him.

I didn't think Mollie was gonna go that way and I honestly don't think that wagon's gonna gain any traction.

If you believe he is the cop, why not follow the cop and vote Jacob?

Yeah this isn't what "follow the cop" means...you follow his results, not just because he's the cop. In that same vein, why aren't you following Mhork?

p-edit: ^^that

[borkjerfkin]

I don't wanna live in a world where EM's meta is a thing to be strived for.

[borkjerfkin]

word

[borkjerfkin]

Cause a cop investigation on person A doesn't mean that his reads are awesome on person B

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

mollie i didn't read that cause NSFW

[borkjerfkin]

i'll just read it when i get home

[borkjerfkin]

PV, JS, UN, and penguin are my four scummiest remaining reads

PM, I didn't do anything to you. Don't tunnel vision me to tunnel vision me. First day phase you had me as surefire town. Maybe you should reread to see why without a guard up

you fake claimed in order to get IaI lynched you should be torched for that

Please don't "policy" this shit. My move made sense if I was reaction testing IAI. The chance IAI would have been cop was abysmally small and I didn't even consider it. I was trying to pressure IAI into a fakeclaim. If he was town he would have 1v1d me and said, "no, you're lying! I'm a VT so you didn't receive a gun read on me!". My move made perfect reaction test sense. I reaction test anyway as both alignments. In Game of the year I fakeclaimed daycop on scum and had them lynched because my read was so damn strong. You have no reason to be voting me other than you wanting to get back at me, which is antitown.

I agree with this post and his reasoning about IAI is why I didn't want to jump on Matt yesterday -- I don't think Matt knew he was outing a cop.

[borkjerfkin]

I thought Vifam was one of the primary pushers of AA and I don't think she'd have gotten lynched without his support.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know what's with Jacob; it feels like he's been V/LA the whole week.

Vifam was planting the seeds for the AA wagon way before it ever got started (1615) -- I actually thought he was fairly vocal about it. It doesn't look like a bus attempt.

Mollie does that make penguin look townier to you? I, as usual, can't read her well.

[borkjerfkin]

I am confused by pretty much all of what you just said if it's directed at me.

[borkjerfkin]

dislike you defending Vifam though when I view his behavior as dubious...He basically did exactly what I did in my one offsite game in which I rolled Mafia. We had a maf PR getting wagoned all D1 off an on and I keep saying it was an ok lynch, but voting elsewhere or trying to hunt other people.

Honestly? CSB. I dislike that you'd use a self-meta argument not only to 1) explain why I'm wrong but also 2) call me scummy for even making the assertion

[borkjerfkin]

I just looked at it for like 5 minutes and that was the impression I got.

[borkjerfkin]

My gut tells me Matt's the wrong choice.

VOTE: Majiffy

You've been subtly buddying me all game while not really committing to a read on me either way (except you say I'm off my meta), but #2913 looks like you're prepping to jump on me if the wagon gains any traction.

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie can you answer my question in 2816?

[borkjerfkin]

Or more accurately, correct my assumption in 2816 as I thought you were trying to call penguin town there.

p-edit: sec

[borkjerfkin]

... I've been calling you scummy all game...

You've been being incredibly nebulous about it all game -- just once in a while mentioning me and other times not putting me in your list. You're also not treating me like someone you find scummy. You've said that I'm off my meta. That is it.

I'm not even going to address the OMGUS thing as OMGUS is stupid.

[borkjerfkin]

AP I'll start talking to you again when you get out of confirmation bias mode because jesus christ.

[borkjerfkin]

AngryPidgeon, I've seen zabriel lurk as town, and he seemed to be less inclined to throw in excuses and extraneous content then. There's enough to read that's relevant in this 100+ page game without going through posts talking about how stoned he is.

I was thinking about how things would work with pirate mollie giving us two investigation targets, with the unchosen one being held over for the next day to reduce the PoE in scum finding the last mason on their end. I don't know if giving the scum a ballpark to work in offsets not making the last mason conf-town for them though.

I don't love the part in borkjerfkin's ISO where he goes from thinking the only scummy thing I've done is not write off UberNinja's Vifam-grammar theory (here) and has me as one of his top lynch choices a couple pages later (here). And then goes to voting I Am Innocent here. I guess I'm willing to see where this goes.

VOTE: borkjerfkin

I went on IAI over others specifically because of things Matt said.

Your being in my top lynch choices was

specifically in a post responding to where AP was talking about a compromise pool.

Did you read that part?

[borkjerfkin]

That's why I haven't pushed hard on it. ITT I don't think you've done a whole lot that merits calling you scum, but I'm certainly not getting a town vibe from you.

If you flip town, I'll just take that as a compliment about all the previous times we've played together if I normally towntell that hard that you're so worried when I don't.

[borkjerfkin]

2057 (the gunsmith claim), before IAI claimed cop.

[borkjerfkin]

PV I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

[borkjerfkin]

I like the force replace idea on Jacob. Catching up otherwise.

[borkjerfkin]

I still think Matt is town. Majiffy or UN are possible. The more I think about it the more I think Om may have been hiding a partner in plain sight when talking about the Bitmap/AP slot.

@AP - Rev was saying that there was scum between AA's two null reads, so I wanted him to talk about how she chose to phrase those.
@Rev - Do you think AA is the sort that doesn't attack partners?

I like most of this post and don't really wanna lynch Zab. I'm down for either Majiffy or UN (mostly for his insistence on JS, pointing out pretty banal things from Matt as scummy, and prior play, although he has become considerably less abrasive and more helpful).

I don't think AP is scum for 95% of his play, although his 180 on me in like no time for pretty much nothing is bizarre.

[borkjerfkin]

oh, speaking of V/LA

V/LA Friday-Monday

prolly LA.

[borkjerfkin]

I almost ragequitted this site in my first game but he was kind so I stuck it out with my newbie game and met majiffy and maestro. and N.

I feel so left out

but yeah buld's cool

[borkjerfkin]

coolbeans.

[borkjerfkin]

Matt's flipping scum

What's more likely --

1) This was some elaborate trap to bait IAI into claiming a guilty on him, followed by us directly disproving that by lynching Matt and outing IAI as scum.
or
2) Matt was trying to WIFOM IAI into not investigating him at all.

[borkjerfkin]

If Matt flips town, IAI gets lynched.

If Matt flips scum, IAI gets killed anyway.

Problem solves itself.

Next.

Also this pretty much

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: IAI

So...how likely is a framer given the town power.

Except that you're making that town power calculation coming from the angle that IAI is legit; there wouldn't have to be some such framer if IAI isn't what he says he is. This is more supported by what IAI has given us so far.

I thought he was legit too and the stuff coming from Matt at the top of page 164 was a bunch of flaily bullshit -- why was a fake guilty on Matt the "obvious move"? But really this framer thing is such an outside shot that I don't think it makes any sense.

[borkjerfkin]

Basically it was decided that IaI would investigate Mattp, as far as I remember.

So if there is a framer, its no coincidence that it connected. I guess I'd have to reread again to see HOW obvious it was that IaI was intending to target Matt, but I recall it being basically decided that he would. We should have done a pick 1/3 randomly method

This is actually really important -- this would change probabilities but I honestly don't remember that occurring.

[borkjerfkin]

I've seen framer in normals. People were unhappy.

[borkjerfkin]

What if AD flips town?

At how many mislynches does this stop being a framer and start being bullshit? Because anyone willing to lynch AD needs to ask themselves that right now.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't have a lot of experience in normals -- is it a tendency for scum to have counters to town PRs?

p-edit ^^^ I guess I got kind of an answer. Is that scenario scumsided, even assuming all other scum are just goons?

[borkjerfkin]

Also how many scum are we speculating on?

p-edit: when the hell ever have I been close to being lynched?

[borkjerfkin]

Occam's razor really supports IAI being scum.

[borkjerfkin]

meaning...?

[borkjerfkin]

Do you disagree with my assessment or what are you trying to say

[borkjerfkin]

I know what whatevs means. Do you have anything to say that is not useless?

[borkjerfkin]

We've got nigh guaranteed scum between IAI/Dan -- even if a framer DOES exist. Those are pretty damn good odds. I'm with Uber here, I mean look at the options:

1) IAI is scum trying to get us to mislynch Dan
2) IAI is scum bussing Dan for cop cred
3) IAI is town and this report is legit
4) IAI is town and Dan is town and was framed.

I don't put much stock in 4 -- it requires that a framer both exist AND have hit twice successfully. So lynching between these two is correct play.

[borkjerfkin]

Cross off a Rev/Majiffy team.

[borkjerfkin]

But seriously it's not the right play.

[borkjerfkin]

borky you have played with majiffy and I and what do he and I do...we spend the entire time arguing and fighting over who gets to be in charge. do you see that in this game?

No. he's yielding to you -- but you're confirmed town.

And that was also a leading question so you got the answer you wanted. But really, he's simply not making any cogent arguments about anything; he's not pushing or explaining his reads, and he's just kind of floating there, which is patently unlike him.

I'd still rather ignore him today. I get the tough decision by leaving IAI alive thing (if he's town), but the fact of the matter remains you've pretty much got either one or two scum in IAI/Dan.

[borkjerfkin]

It's definitely more likely they're both scum than that they're both town. But you're correct, it's probably one.

[borkjerfkin]

I wanna know more about why AJ thinks that, if there's a framer, that both Matt AND Dan must have been framed, because that makes no sense to me.

[borkjerfkin]

@Rev -- Yeah. Tomorrow.

Seriously you've got an expected value of like 1 and 1/3 scum between IAI and Dan and you want to not do that?

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie what are we doing here? Are we seriously going to table this issue today?

IAI's generally been calm and collected and AD's been extremely emotional. My gut at the beginning of the day was to not believe IAI due to the absolute requirement of a framer in this setup for that to even be viable, and I don't see enough bad behavior from Dan to really change my mind here. Leaning like 65/35.

Some people seem WAY too sure it's one or the other, though.

[borkjerfkin]

Well, let's see:

1) If IAI is scum, you're just inviting more WIFOM from him.
2) If IAI is town, you're going to get a guilty result on Uber no matter what Uber actually is.

[borkjerfkin]

Remember that role in the game that we're required to have for IAI to be town? Guess where they'll be visiting tonight if we do that?

I mean your total lack of awareness of the gamestate suggests you're town, but christ dude you're making some awful points here.

[borkjerfkin]

That looks like it should be a dunkin donuts logo

[borkjerfkin]

Remember that role in the game that we're required to have for IAI to be town? Guess where they'll be visiting tonight if we do that?

I mean your total lack of awareness of the gamestate suggests you're town, but christ dude you're making some awful points here.

when you say dude it makes me wonder who you're talking to

but if it's mollie, i agree 100% with this post

I am talking to you.

Step 1) IAI is town and we lynch Dan
Step 2) IAI investigates you
Step 3) ????
Step 4) ????

Fill in step 3 and 4.

p-edit: It IS possible. Are you even reading what I post?

[borkjerfkin]

I dunno what any of that step 4 shit is about, but the fact of the matter is that YOU ARE GETTING FRAMED if we don't lynch the framer today and we talk openly about investigating you.

Hence why IAI gets a guilty on you regardless of your actual alignment.

Why are we having this conversation again?

[borkjerfkin]

so now we're outguessing the mod?

okay i'll play

but tell me why IAI's story makes sense and actiondan suddenly has a bee in his bonnet
why wouldn't he be calm and cool, knowing that IAI just led a mislynch on matt, and that nobody would listen to IAI today

Spoiler:

because he wasn't expecting to be inspected, that's why

This is literally the only thing keeping even slightly on the fence about this.

[borkjerfkin]

mollie, penguin's right.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork doubted the cop. That's sensible.

And scum would be incapable of posturing on this issue? Its a really easy assertion to make. And Bork was flip-flopping on the framer issue. He really is scum. If you are town, it could easily be bork/majiffy/Iai?/??

P-edit: I agree that Majiffy has to go. Im glad Im starting to think AJ and rev are both moderately town.

What am I flip-flopping on? I'm getting fucking tired of these stupid potshots from you.

[borkjerfkin]

Thanks for dodging the question.

And uh I've made my stance on IAI vs Dan pretty clear.

[borkjerfkin]

Dan certainly was not "obvtown" but IAI required less assumptions to be scum. I feel I've been very clear on this.

Knowing that people use framers by looking at the mini normal queue and checking out a few games where they happened is hardly tantamount to knowing how people tend to balance games.

p-edit: how exactly? Vifam, Uber, and Majiffy are basically just fucking around and Mollie wanted a third party lynch.

[borkjerfkin]

holy fuck hi 2001 how have you been?

[borkjerfkin]

I wanted to call Rev gut town coming into the day but I can't decide if transplanting AP's reads as his own is scummy or not -- I guess it depends on whether or not Majiffy and Vifam really are scum. I haven't read the last few pages yet.

[borkjerfkin]

penguin's nullish to me and if dan had flipped scum she'd be pretty much confirmed town.

[borkjerfkin]

i know "too scummy to be scum" isn't a thing, but "too fucking boneheaded to be scum" is where i'm at with uber.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok

Reads:
Town
Uber -- towntells all over the place
Rev -- gut and I'm satisfied with his response about AP

Null
penguin -- would call town with AD scum flip -- was on wrong wagon with ok reasoning
vifam -- would call scum with AD scum flip -- seemed wayyyy too sure AD was scum which would've been, in retrospect, an easy bus

Scum
Majiffy -- kind of just flinging shit everywhere at this point, I think is also misrepping Rev also about how we should be treating Mhork.
AJ -- POE, kind of low flying all game

who's after penguin?

p-edit: @Penguin: I'd like clarification on:

"And UberNinja saying he has it on good authority that I'm scum makes me think he's scum along with Majiffy. But that's to be expected, so."

Mostly the last sentence.

[borkjerfkin]

Uber chill the fuck out

[borkjerfkin]

Did Vifam claim?

[borkjerfkin]

yeah he did.

I'm a VT.

[borkjerfkin]

that's just uber left

[borkjerfkin]

Also Vifam when did I suddenly become scum to you?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm having difficulty following this Vifam-Rev argument, mostly cause I don't really understand 4964.

[borkjerfkin]

why did this have to be the 200 page large game and not the 40 page large game

[borkjerfkin]

I think Vifam and Penguin need to hydra sometime and never sign their posts.

Anyway AJ how many scum do you expect are left?

[borkjerfkin]

AJ was a PoE scumread start of day but his play today has pretty much obliterated that.

Majiffy, Vifam, Penguin are my scumreads in that order. They're all really close.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Majiffy

Rather he go than penguin -- he's voting his number 4 right now btw.

[borkjerfkin]

Exactly, I don't think he really had any intention to seriously push anything.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok I don't understand 5058 either.

[borkjerfkin]

What's wrong with the bolded?

[borkjerfkin]

Six people voting, eight alive, one is confirmed town. They're are 2-3 scum here

Someone do the math

I don't get what point you're trying to make

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Penguin

[borkjerfkin]

hammer dammit

[borkjerfkin]

almost gave me a fucking heart attack lol

[borkjerfkin]

Someday people on this site will realize the flowchart actually works.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna roll over when you peg me.

[borkjerfkin]

oh uber

[borkjerfkin]

keep on bein' you, man

[borkjerfkin]

Props to AP for nailing me. Im still not sure what you saw.

[borkjerfkin]

Well thanks to my supportive scum team for helping me with both my adaptation to larger games AND my general inexperience at being scum.

I knew that no matter what I did that some people (basically Majiffy) were going to realize that my scum game is not at all like my town game -- I feel like I'm way more assertive and attached to the game as town. I think I got kinda lucky that more suspicion wasn't thrown at me. I do think the staged fight with Uber helped me out quite a bit. I thought I'd get much more flak than I did for killing AP.

I'm not really sure how to improve my play other than to post more.

[borkjerfkin]

yeah I'm honestly kinda surprised the floodgates opened from the dead people in the topic like this. Ive never really seen that happen.

[borkjerfkin]

Remember we lost our JK early, which was basically a way to totally shut down that vig or bodyguard indefinitely, so I think the balance checks out. I think all keeping AA alive would've done is that we'd have realized IAI earlier -- we'd have asked for a result after jailing him and he'd have given one instead of saying he was roleblocked and then we'd have known and moved on to killing masons.

[borkjerfkin]

we gonna share QTs?

[borkjerfkin]

i'll wait for UN, Vifam's approval. I don't think AA is checking the thread anymore.

[borkjerfkin]

I just read the dead qt and guess who isn't complaining about balance!

[borkjerfkin]

Heh now that I mention it I remember Maestro saying that to me and Majiffy in the Micro 110 Mafia QT before either of us even signed up for the game.

[borkjerfkin]

he used the exact "uphill battle" line

[borkjerfkin]

this was before i even signed up or knew i would be scum and i forgot about it

[borkjerfkin]

I don't remember if we killed chkflip because of the mod enforced penalty thing confirming him or whatever. I want to say it had little if anything to do with that.

[borkjerfkin]

mollie what did I tip your scumdar about

[borkjerfkin]

mollie didn't talk about my meta at all though. I knew that was your angle and didn't know what the fuck to do about it so I ignored you.

[borkjerfkin]

if you'd have brought that up i'd probably have started talking about how the length and amount of fluff was demoralizing me but who knows if that would've gone over or not

[borkjerfkin]

Either referring to:
1) the penalty imposed on chkflip (bankable time removed) served as a sort of soft confirmation of chk's alignment (who knows what he would've done if scum had committed a rule breaking offense)

or

2) PMing the deadthread to herobrine when he meant to send it to theunderachivers

[borkjerfkin]

What mod fuck up?

[borkjerfkin]

for good measure

What mod fuck up?

[borkjerfkin]

for good measure

What mod fuck up?

HEY I'M DOING IT

IS THIS GOOD?

[borkjerfkin]

mollie didn't talk about my meta at all though. I knew that was your angle and didn't know what the fuck to do about it so I ignored you.

mantis called you out on it too
i didn't trust her enough

hmm. that's problematic.

[borkjerfkin]

Hey, none of you guys seriously pushed the meta thing at all. Mollie was calling me town.

[borkjerfkin]

j

[borkjerfkin]

Man I just went back and looked at newbie 1231 and I don't fucking play anything like I used to. I'm not sure that I've gotten any better though.

[borkjerfkin]

yeah that meta stuff just got me thinking. Also I was town in newbie 1231 so I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make

[borkjerfkin]

OH FUCK YEAH I KNOW THIS GAME

all hail the autocorrect

[borkjerfkin]

DAMMIT

[borkjerfkin]

You're still doing it wrong, you're just supposed to quote.

Fucking scrub nubs.

DAMMIT

[borkjerfkin]

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj

[borkjerfkin]

rocked

[borkjerfkin]

*uninterested statement about my suspects*