NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[ActionDan]

You guys are considering busdrivers. If ANYTHING it's a redirector in the case where IaI is a cop.

You call me scum, but then throw this out there? Why even entertain the idea? Trying to sway the people who believe I am the cop by saying 'yeah I could still be town too'?

IaI basically gave away his reason for picking me as his fake guilty. It's because I was the only one for sure who wasn't thinking he was a cop.

No, it was your lurking. It was you not placing a single vote the day we lynched scum. It was your defense of AA9 as absolute town.

Now that we're on it, why did you not vote D2? And why do you have more posts D4 now that you are under pressure than all of D2?

@To the people saying that I'd be hard to push over other people: the goal here is for IaI to simply take a stab at surviving an extra day. going 1v1 vs the guy that was sure to vote him was his best bet.

Okay, so say scum IAI wants to start off the day by surviving. Why not pick an easy target like the ones mentioned today? Why not start off the day with my Bus Driver theory and vote you right off the bat, rather than sit back?

Or could it be that I am the cop. I crumbed it in post 1. There was no CC. I targeted one of my top 2 targets N1, the one I thought would be harder to lynch. She ended up being a mason. As you can see D2, even before I claimed, I did not suspect pirate one iota. Then came D3 when I asked pirate who to investigate. She included matt in every list, and at one pt only asked for matt in one post. So I did, and my N3 investigation came back guilty. He flips town, which means in my mind, scum tampered with it, likely targeting matt in some way (not a redirector as you are trying to push).

At this point it is you vs me. You continue to argue setups and such, but refuse to point out how I have been scummy outside of matt flipping differently than I said. So please, read the prior paragraph, and show me the scum motivation in my actions. Or motivation in any of my play this game.

I'm "throwing redirector out there" because if you are town it's the most likely explanation you got 2 guilties in a row by a huge margin. This isn't me trying to sway people. This is me trying to at make people see reality when half of everybody doesn't know how to set-up speculate properly. And those fail arguments assume framer/busdriver which if you pre-suppose those exist you can excuse the guilty on MattP and then say "well it's unlikely Dan was framed cuz what are the odds?". So Yeah I suppose I'm swaying people indirectly.

I haven't been in the game since D1. I got back to school and had shit tons of work to do. I was in 5 games at the time and wasn't contributing much across the board. Didn't vote D2 because I didn't feel like it. I'd have voted MattP Zab or JS but didn't really feel confident so I didn't vote. At the end though after Nacho quoted AA's no lynch post I might have voted it. assumed AA9 was noob before so I thought her reading the thread showed townie effort. Saw no-lynch was like, ok. maybe not.

Who's an easy target? Maybe it was the guy who's not been active and called AA9 town D2? See what I did there.

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted. Since Gay mafia is now over I'll talk about our hydra's experience with being a cop. We choose unlikely targets so as not to be fucked over. that's it! Coincidently we got scum N1. and later we proved there was a redirector, and apparently you still don't know how that role works. They don't target your targets. They target you and change your action to a target of their choice. So if you're a cop they just redirect you to one of themselves and you get a scum result everytime. As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim. This is about the only thing that gives me any pause, however, but I think giving out a false result twice beats that out by a wide margin.

I mean your answer to finding me scummy is lurking after D1 and calling AA9 town. And posting more D5 when there's a claimed cop calling me scum. So double standards much?

[ActionDan]

majiffy how invested in this day will you become

[Vifam]

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted. Since Gay mafia is now over I'll talk about our hydra's experience with being a cop. We choose unlikely targets so as not to be fucked over. that's it! Coincidently we got scum N1. and later we proved there was a redirector, and apparently you still don't know how that role works. They don't target your targets. They target you and change your action to a target of their choice. So if you're a cop they just redirect you to one of themselves and you get a scum result everytime. As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim. This is about the only thing that gives me any pause, however, but I think giving out a false result twice beats that out by a wide margin.

Not everyone laughs off directions like that from confirmed town

[penguin_alien]

Checked the wiki page. Framer is normal, bus driver and redirector are explicitly not normal and not allowed. The 'two not-normal roles' thing covers original and variant roles, not forbidden roles. So, given that the odds of a framer targeting Action Dan are basically nil, either he or IAI is scum, period.

[penguin_alien]

Edit: I think this is what AP meant, but it was vague enough that I had to go clarify. Sorry for the filler!

[Vifam]

Yeah, if AD flips town we lynch IAI D6 No ands or buts, this is basically a 50/50 and IAI looks a lot more town

[Aj The Epic]

But two days in a row? And then coming up with a guilty read on AD full head of steam? No, the scenario would call that IaI is scum well before AD if no interference plays.

[Vifam]

Get this: Maybe this second investigation ISN'T a frame, it's not hard to think that mafia framed MattP the first time because it was generally decided he would be the investigation

[UberNinja]

n1 - mozi forgot to get on it and perv was busy and only made one post I think so and I talked about eye cream with maestro.

golf clap

n2 - I decided to get stark raving paranoid that mozi might actually be a neighbor until maestro got on and was like stfu you dummy you guys are town masons.

how very nice of him to specify, instead of shutting up and letting people be paranoid

makes all of our jobs a bit easier. it's unbalanced to give reassurance like that, but what the hell, if it's in our favor

n3 - perv and I talked a bit about IaI maybe being legit, it was mostly me doing the talking and how maestro thinks it is cute that I call prs "specials" and perv was like "yeah she is calling them mentally challenged".

i lol'd

which brings up another thing I am wondering about. why nk mozi and perv before me? neither was a super strong presence in the game and I would think that they would nk mhork before any of us. the only reason to nk masons is to break a possible voting bloc froming at a crucial time. I think scum want to keep me in the game and I wish I could figure out why. I am thinking it that it is likely that I know me and know my tendency to tunnel and to fuck up lylo's. or I have them in my town pile. or maybe I am just hugely entertaining. I know sometimes I will keep a player in just so I can pit my skills against theirs.

i'd say you're both likeable, hugely entertaining, and what youre saying makes sense. you as a NK makes more sense than either PV or mhork, unless they were way more close to correct with their reads than yours. and it seems there's not much they're doing that you're not alreay

i'd go with the likable/usable thing if i were you

maybe that's mostly because i just like to pretend people like me...

one time I left a cop cleared, semi-proven doc in the game til mylo cos I liked him and the only way I was to get any repsect out o him was if I totally mindfucked him. so I started the don wifom early, accused of bullying, fake melted down, walked away from the game and told everyone it was cos I was in tears, agreed to the sig/avatar bet he provided and promised not to vote him the next day and then I did. game should have ended there but my scummate who performed the kill was blown by the pgo and then the next day town mislynched cos no one could believe that I could fake that level of theatrics. that is why I was asking if matt was capable of that level of emotional manipulation cos most players aren't. when players start to show real signs of break down they are usually town.

oh you devil. i'm never trusting you if you're not conftown

so....I can't help but wonder if I am helping scum in some way cos I was onto arc early and should have been nked before mozi and perv but really mhork should have gone before any of us.

speculating on why certain nightkills were made or not made is usually fruitless, btw

either that or it's exactly what scum wants you to do. it's all WIFOM in any case

so questions I have for you:

what do you think of IaI's post after I had just voted dan? to me it looked opportunistic, a totally different vibe than what he had given off before. I just happened to vote the scum he had viewed? and if he was looking at reactions, why did he not wait a little longer? he already had me as town so he could not have been waiting for mine and yet I gave him the impetus to his view? the motivation in that single look stinky as hell but if IaI is scum it means he went into the game preparing to fake claim cop and all I can say is wow.

4166? i think it's indicative of a town mindset and is weak/bad enough that an argument could easily be pushed that it is scummy
as i see it so far, if IAI is town, he's doing a pretty shitty job as a cop. but that doesn't mean he's scum, it just means he sucks at being a cop.

i've played one or two games with him before but i never remember him as being one of the most prolific players. my PROFESSIONAL opinion is that i think he's more comfortable playing a less important role, and is prone to say idiotic and scummy sounding things whether he's town or scum, if forced into a position of scrutiny

i like him and i feel like his position makes sense, and his post 4205 makes great sense as a follow up to 4166. actiondan on the other hand seems to be falling apart like scum who didn't expect this outcome at all, and doesn't quite know how to handle it.

contrast dan's reaction to matt's.

anyway re: IAI, i have an irrational fear of fake PR claims, but i am really trying hard to stop lynching them immediately after something happens that makes them doubtable, because obviously scum has it in their mind to discredit the PRs and be destructive to town synergy in any way possible. matt was a big factor in this town's synergy in a way, so it would make sense for scum to frame/busdrive him.

that's another thing that makes the PV kill even weirder, because he was not really very glue-y in terms of getting ppl to stick together and focus on common things, he's more of a post sniper that doesn't really add much. kinda like AJ, which brings me to your next question...

what do you think of aj who has pretty much done nothing, especially comparing it to the newb game you gmed?

tbqh i didnt pay enough attention to mini 1359 from a playstyle standpoint

i just did votecounts and stuff -__- i feel like a bad person now.

in this game however, i felt like he was town earlier, but i didn't like how he completely ignored the zabriel flip and the NK yesterday morning. that was the beginning of my suspicion on him, even though i had written him off

what about borky?

bork feels generally town to me. i understand his arguments even if i feel they're wrong.

this is a really good sign usually, because i think much differently than most people

[UberNinja]

As for dan, I assume he's town because I'm guessing IaI is faking. He claims when he's getting heat, tells us he investigated the night kill, then he gives us a bad lynch which other people seem to be happy to excuse for him, and now he's telling us dan is scum. Alarm bells are ringing.

there are at least three things wrong with this paragraph

cookies for who can spot them

[UberNinja]

And then pidgeon suggesting framer right off the bat today, this I find suspicious.

No you don't.

LOL

[Majiffy]

majiffy how invested in this day will you become

None. I'm moving this weekend, I'm seeing walls on top of walls, and so I didn't even read - or intend to read - the last 3 pages.

[UberNinja]

oop[s i got distracted for a few hours on youtube

look at this gem i found!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzQr3Ml0UI

[UberNinja]

I'm really liking town IAI here.

VOTE: ActionDan

this

[pirate mollie]

role clarification is not the same as reassurance, uber. the significance of the colour coding was something I only recently learned about. I played a marathon game where I had a governor's role and traceylyn had to tell me through the second day round that I was scum cos I totally thought that I was town and it was obvious that I was playing that way.

[UberNinja]

Actually I want to talk about/to UN.

How in the world did you go so fast from one idea to another based soley on IaI's spec about a possible busdriver (like congrats you now know what a busdriver does, why I'd be unlikely to be targetted by one, and a possible reason a town cop would target me to avoid one of the two parties being busdrove: but how can does this in any way convince you IaI isn't simply lying about being a cop)?

i'm more interested in how you kinda skated through the entire game and only now you're beginning to get active

it's possible he's lying, yes, but it's still a better idea to keep him around one more day than keep you around one more day

if you're town that either means either a) scum was INCREDIBLY clairvoyant in framing you, or b) IAI is lying and scum

that would not have been the case with Matt however because he was an obvious target for this type of thing and you were clearly not, and there is also the fact that IAI sounds completely legitimate about this and you, in fact, don't

i have had cop results on me before as scum and there are only two things you can do

a) get super active all of a sudden, and suggest all kinds of ridiculous stuff to WIFOM people out of thinking clearly, or
b) give up and vote yourself

and you are doing exactly the same kind of "a)" that I would do

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

this is setup speculating instead of saying "no, he's lying, i'm town" or something similar

this doesn't sound like a town response

I voted IaI in this post before IaI claimed a guilty on me. Even so, did I really have to say that I believed he was lying while voting for him?

operative words: "or something"

you sounded like you were more interested in whether or not you could get yourself out of a scum result via setup speculation, than shocked, surprised, and full of righteous anger at what was an incorrect result

in other words, you fucked up bad

[UberNinja]

Framer / Busdriver / Whatever, they're has to be SOME type of counter to all the PR's town has All Goons + JK makes no fucking sense. Framer would be a more direct counter to cop, but a busdriver seems more helpful to the scumteam from what I'm hearing. I don't see how ActionDan isn't the optimal lynch for today since IAI JUST being scum doesn't add up well

this this this this thsi thsi...

[borkjerfkin]

Occam's razor really supports IAI being scum.

[Vifam]

Whatevs

[borkjerfkin]

meaning...?

[Vifam]

Seriosuly

[borkjerfkin]

Do you disagree with my assessment or what are you trying to say

[Vifam]

Whatevs = Whatever

[borkjerfkin]

I know what whatevs means. Do you have anything to say that is not useless?

[Vifam]

Yeah IAI is town