Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote, vote deepfriedninja

vote ojpower

for placing the third vote on someone on page 1

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: Ojpower...

oj NKed...do you

?

am curious...what was this? slip up of some sort? why would you even need to be typing the sentence "oj NKed"?

[curiouskarmadog]

ah...

there it is...

sense of humor turned back on...

[curiouskarmadog]

I do not know if this means anything, but I think it will be worth a note here. Doing a little metagaming on OJ. Seems that vote with no explanation is pretty constant (one game 6 pages, two posts, both votes without content or explanation). It looks like he usually is lynched pretty early on for this play style. SO he could be a great mafia target.

However, this means little to me in this game. I still would like him to comment.

OJ please address some of the concerns that have been ask of you.

When I used the word bandwagon I was speaking about a hypothetical situation in which OJ is mob. In this

hypothetical

OJ does not want to play the silly joke-vote in the beginning of the game, he wants us to lynch a townie. To achieve this goal he is not going to just pick a random player to vote because there is no guarantee whatsoever that we will follow suit, so he picks a player that already has a base of votes against him, in this situation myself.

[hypotherical] Oj=Mob [hypothetical/] OJ sees a player with 2 votes against him he figures he will add a third vote and hopefully either another townie or another mafia member will put on a fourth vote. From there someone distorts some quotes about something, and a fifth and hopefully sixth vote follow over the next few days. Im not saying that this is the scumteam's master plan, but what if OJ just thought he would take a stab in the dark to see if it would stick.

So to answer your question I was just concerned about OJ trying to incite the masses towards a lynch on THE FIRST PAGE THE GAME!!!Everyone else is also a little perturbed by this 3rd vote on the first page so maybe it is something we should pay attention to.

This seems like a huge leap of logic for a vote with no explanation.

Guess my question here is this, if it has set off “huge alarms in your head” why only FoS him and keep your vote on a “random” target?

[curiouskarmadog]

u guys are right it was a little dramatic.

still didnt answer my question.

[curiouskarmadog]

^^because I am not totally sure yet that OJ is guilty. I don't want to be irresponsibly throwing votes around so early in the game.

Lets see what he says about it and see if anyone tries to protect him.

and where exactly is

your

vote right now?

My problem here is this, you created a 3 paragraph scenario of the mafia’s grand scheme to eliminate you from the game and proclaiming that “OJ wants to lynch a townie” all based on one vote without an explanation. After all of this, you only FoS him. You obviously think he is scummy because you are keeping an eye out for anyone who “tries to protect him”. Then you state you do not want to be “irresponsibly throwing around votes” but you keep your random vote on vollkan. This doesn’t seem consistent to me. If you are town isnt it your “responsibility” to lynch scum?

Unvote

OJ, just because I have unvoted you, doesn’t mean I do not hear your explanation of “why did you place a third vote day 1 without an explanation”

[curiouskarmadog]

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

right now, you and OJ are the discussion

[curiouskarmadog]

we have also yet to hear from kerplunk.

Kerplunk will be prodded if he doesn't post within 24 hours. -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

we have also yet to hear from kerplunk.

Kerplunk will be prodded if he doesn't post within 24 hours. -Mod

hey it is nice to have a mod on top of things!!

[curiouskarmadog]

this is assuming the Day vig is not mafia

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus, did we just do a U turn?

[curiouskarmadog]

To me it seems that DFN does not do so great under pressure, but I'm not sure if the way he acted is indicative or scum or town. I'm thinking OJ is scum however. Again, I'm not doing anything til he explains himself, and/or kerplunk actually posts something.

and why do you think he is scum?

most likely I think he will be replaced

[curiouskarmadog]

As for OJ, I want him to answer this: What prompted you to change your vote?

I admit that I will be skeptical if you say it was random because you did not give any attempt at a comical explanation (though, admittedly, 99.9% of attempts at random joke humour fail miserably at being even remotely amusing).

I do not think he actually changed his vote...his only post thus far was that unvote/vote...he never posted before that..unless I am missing it.

[curiouskarmadog]

I do not think he actually changed his vote...his only post thus far was that unvote/vote...he never posted before that..unless I am missing it.

You're right. I thought he changed because

why the vote shift oj?

well when one types "unvote" you would think that he had a vote to unvote.

my read on oj is he is not reading any of his games and he is just voting....
I think he should be prodded if he does not post soon, and then replaced. he is only going to hurt to the town.

Prodding ojpower on monday if he doesn't post. -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

Albert

: What the heck is a

OG

?

Yes, thanks for the welcome. Reading right now.

Original Gangster LOL. -Mod

Respect he deserves huh? Well, I think he is crafty..I will give him that..

at any rate, thoughts on the game thus far "OG"?

[curiouskarmadog]

the discussion is on you and OJ

Not really that scummy but the purpose of this post is to make sure i remain in the cross hairs, because he wants the focus of the group off himself and his mob friends.

Not really that existent either.

CKD in post #47:

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

right now, you and OJ are the discussion

you caught this before I could comment.

DFN, again, you have developed some scum plot. However, this time you not only take my words out of context, but you edit them as well.

Why?

[curiouskarmadog]

i answered that question

i thought i knew it word for word and just typed it, sorry

you typed it? Then why did you display it as a quote and not use ""?

Your case against me is absolutely ridiculous!

First of all, I was pointing out your inconsistencies. Which you agreed your case against OJ was “dumb”

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

now you have concocted yet another mafia scheme to off you. Your case against me has no merit. The fact you try to deflect guilt with ludicrous nonsense is quite telling. My current read on you is that you are first time mafia and you do not know how to get the ball rolling or a townie with an itchy lynching hand. Which is it?

[curiouskarmadog]

hey volkan Im sorry I dont have as much experience as you. Im trying to just play the game and have fun, but everything i type is met with condescending negativity.

Im sorry if my posts don't meet up to your standards, it doesn't mean you have to talk to me like im six years old. All i did was ask what u thought of my post, and u come back with this pompous attitude like ur too good for it. Stop being such a dick.

Keep a cool head, guys. -Mod

well this was uncalled for..you presented cases, both were shut down, then you jump to insults...

no one was talking to you like a 6 year old...however it does shed light on your maturity when you call someone a "dick".

[curiouskarmadog]

Actually I dont think that is a bad Ideal Gorckat....

Vote:Nelly

what?

that is your contribution to this game?

[curiouskarmadog]

prediction:

DFN: has taken the game personally and he is probably done with it...

have a feeling he will need a replacement..

not asking for a prod or anything...just a prediction...


waiting on more contribution from Hermit and Nelly

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont think there is a Jester in this game just me... I honestly think that alot of you in this game are foolish and I want to see how far your foolishness will go...

I am TOWNIE and I am voting for myself... You all vote for me and you will be lynching a Townie on DAY ONE...

LET THE FUN BEGIN!!!

you understand if everyone played like you, we would not have a game, right?

why are you voting for yourself?

[curiouskarmadog]

ummm, starting to think this lynch is too easy..

[curiouskarmadog]

it is 6 to lynch..

he is at 5..

he is not at -3, he is at -1...

old school huh? maybe they had issues with counting votes back in the day.

I think Nelly might be town, bored with the game and wants out..

if that is true...lets replace him first.

Nelly, provide content, or ask for a replacement..

your current play style is going to get you lynched!

[curiouskarmadog]

this lynch is too easy...

vote Paradoxombie

for being old school but not being able to count votes...

were you setting up for the hammer?

were you protecting yourself after the lynch and he was town?

did you miscount?

explain yourself!

[curiouskarmadog]

What more content do you want... I am TOWNIE... There is your content... What would you like me to pull my vote off myself?

if you are a townie..and you see yourself at -1...why would you not remove your vote and help the town?

what do you think about the vote surge on you?

DO you want out of the game?

[curiouskarmadog]

um, yes? we would?

Para, I mean that will get evidence later in the game, and I will use the previous suspicion in later cases.

so you know he is at -1...but you will not remove your vote?

dont you want to hear his content before he is lynched by prematurely?

[curiouskarmadog]

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

this is by far the scummiest sentences thus far in this game...

100% necessary? Forced our hand? -3?

If he doesnt want to post then he is replaced...someone is hungry for a lynch..why is that?...

[curiouskarmadog]

you are a one shot vig?

Well, I think both Oman, Para, and elias are suspect..

of course, SPAG really has not done anything..

My vote for vigging is Oman (reasons already stated)...his quick vote on Nelly then his quick vote on Para is not sitting well with me...this by no means clears para, but I think Oman is the summier of the two..

[curiouskarmadog]

who is definately town?

[curiouskarmadog]

good job on the kill vollkan

[curiouskarmadog]

Likewise Volkan you pulled out a good one... Note to Doctor... Protect Volkan in the night so we dont lose a townie...

dont think we have a Doc

[curiouskarmadog]

Anyways, im suspisious of Hermit and Nelly. Both playing wierdly. For now, the vote is for nelly.

vote: Nelly

any reason you felt that nelly should have 3 votes and hermit none at this point?

[curiouskarmadog]

thoughts on everyone thus far.

i am highly suspicious of elias and para at this point. they both (along with oman) jumped on the nelly wagon very fast.

Vollkan is now a confirmed vig and will likely be nked. thank you for your help day 1, your contribution is appreciated.

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

gorckat has not posted the whole game (i think) and as i thought dfn has disappeared

so..

Requesting a prod for gorckat and dfn, please.

Gorckat posted today. DFN will be prodded tomorrow. Don't bother asking me to prod someone if it hasn't been 72 hours without a post yet. -Mod

nelly:

Maybe it is because of the self vote, but I am thinking that nelly is just newbie town. A guess would be that he wanted to pull an “i told you I was town” type comment once lynched. Sort of guessing here though. Oman places his vote on him gives him some town creds anyway. Nelly, your thoughts on this?

[curiouskarmadog]

Is that the same ckd that posted the rest of the game? I've been here all along...at the top of this page even!

What makes you think the scum will kill volkan?

jesus, I am sorry..you have posted...and a lot..I guess I thought you hadnt because we have not had any interaction yet in this game...ugh..sorry gorckat (and Mod)

not that I am a fan of answering a question with a question, but what makes you think that vollkan will not be NKed by the mafia?

[curiouskarmadog]

np- there's been a fair amount of dust swirling here and there

What makes you think asking me about asking you why you think volkan won't get NK'd will get an answer

On the level- I'd like you to answer my question first, and Nelly, too. Why is it neccessary to direct a Doctor to protect volkan?

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is an open setup. There are 3x mafia, 3x masons that win with the town, and

1x day-vig that can be a

mafia

, mason or townie.

Vollkan is not cleared. It could easily be a gambit to make one of the scum appear confirmed in our eyes.

Well, he will not be lynched Day 1 (because he did hit scum)…so we will see if he isn’t Nked. Also, now I have never been in a game with a vig, but couldn’t he have PMed his choice for a kill? Seems to me, if he was mafia, being quiet about the kill would have helped out the mafia more.

In my book, he is cleared until Day 2.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.

what are you suggesting? We lynch him day 1 and find out?

I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

Your record as scum does not preclude you from being caught out here.

I know very well that my scum record does not preclude me from being caught. I'm trying to say, I'm not stupid scum. Read my other games as scum, jumping on a wagon and hoping for a quicklynch (unless its LYLO already) is not my style.

dont think you are stupid scum, when you voted it wasnt really a wagon...you stated you wanted to pressure Nelly…and you did. Thus you still can be scum, but not be “stupid”.

The stupid scum is dead…and the other one has my vote on him.

[curiouskarmadog]

I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.

Oooooor the mafia could simply pick somebody else to kill tonight and laugh as we lynch the townie dayvig tomorrow. If they're really crafty, they'd worm some way into making his survival looks suspicious so that the dayvig would be forced to lash out at one of his attackers, possibly killing another townie. Hey! Sorta like what you're doing!

FOS: curiouskarmadog

He's confirmed as the dayvig. He's not confirmed scum or town. Even the night won't change that... well, unless he turns up dead in the morning.

you assume too much...all I said is he is not my target come Day 1

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.

what are you suggesting? We lynch him day 1 and find out?

I do not like this post at all CKD. Elias suggested nothing of that sort. This is, actually a suggestion you just made in that post and tried to shove it on Elias. I find this really scummy.

FOS: Curiouskarmadog

I have stated numerous times that I feel vollkan is town...ELias keeps arguing with me on this point. I stated I feel Vollkan is at least cleared Day 1 in my book, he argued again…why do you think he is arguing with me on this point?

[curiouskarmadog]

For what it is worth here, I think Elias and Hermit (will provide a PBP if needed) has had some very scummy play here, Day 1. However, I do not think either should be the lynch today. I think Para would be the play for today. He put Nelly at –1 and gave us a bunch of crap to explain why…

Now that Vollkan and Elias has been going round and round he has disappeared and has not provided feedback either way.

I think some pressure needs to be applied on Para.

[curiouskarmadog]

Elias...where is your vote right now?

You have spent a lot of time defending yourself, but little time actually looking for scum...why is that?

who do you think is scum, right now?

[curiouskarmadog]

MOD

I have noticed that there have been time increments added to our title. For example, “afternoon”, “late afternoon”, and now “evening”..does that mean there is a deadline coming?

[curiouskarmadog]

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

gorckat has not posted the whole game (i think) and as i thought dfn has disappeared

so..

Requesting a prod for gorckat and dfn, please.

Gorckat posted today. DFN will be prodded tomorrow. Don't bother asking me to prod someone if it hasn't been 72 hours without a post yet. -Mod

I think I reversed gorckat and SPAG on this post

Mod

can you prod SPAG too?..oh yeah, happy birthday

[curiouskarmadog]

just so that everyone is straight (I know some people have counting problems)..that puts him at -2

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess when you say your “logic” you mean this post.

did you miscount?

Yes. I didn't realize he was near a lynch so I made casual and incomplete count. My fault entirely. But take notice that I said, "I believe." It's important to account for human error.

I find it a little pointless to bother asking players if they're doing things for antitown purposes; the answer is always "no"

As a note, I obviously didn't realize I was putting him at -1, but like I said, unless he starts actually playing, we're gonna lynch him anyway.

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

this is by far the scummiest sentences thus far in this game...

100% necessary? Forced our hand? -3?

If he doesnt want to post then he is replaced...someone is hungry for a lynch..why is that?...

If anyone here is hungry for a lynch, it's you, for me, because you seem pretty damn worried about your little friend Nelly and quick to deflect suspicion to me.

Anyway if ABR is willing to replace Nelly, then that's that, but I am against it for ethical reasons. I don't believe in replacing except for disapearing and direct gamebreaking.

If we let someone live who isn't gonna post any content then we have no way of knowing if they're mafia. Therefore we will never lynch them, and are possibly letting mafia have a vote all game along with their free pass. Therefore the only logical choice is to lynch him now. I'd say there's a slightly higher chance that he's a townie since mafia seem less likely to end up bored and expirimenting in games. But hey, it's not that much worse odds than the average day 1 lynch.

I say you look lynch hungry, then your point your finger at me. Which is crap. Please quote me and offer some sort of case where I have been lynch crazy. Not for replacing people, is also crap. Seems to me that lurkers are easy targets for mafia…

The whole last paragraph is completely out there. Basically you say lynching lurkers is a good idea day 1. no…it isn’t. this to me indicates that you want to get the Night 1 as soon as possible. If you lynch a lurker it gives you exactly ZERO information Day 2 to work off of…replace the lurker is always the way to go.

Yeah, your statements are really based firmly on logic.

Basically your whole contribution to this game was putting someone at –1 following a dead scum. What scum are you currently rooting out? Currently your vote is on a dead guy.

[curiouskarmadog]

and I would like you to comment on who you feel is scum at this point in the game.

[curiouskarmadog]

we are talking about lurking in general not Nelly..

now go back, answer the question about lurking in general.

your vote came after Oman (dead scum).

so who do you think the scum in this game is?

[curiouskarmadog]

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

gorckat has not posted the whole game (i think) and as i thought dfn has disappeared

so..

Requesting a prod for gorckat and dfn, please.

Gorckat posted today. DFN will be prodded tomorrow. Don't bother asking me to prod someone if it hasn't been 72 hours without a post yet. -Mod

sorry I guess his two posts just seem like he hasnt posted or offered anything..must have missed that post yesterday

I think I reversed gorckat and SPAG on this post

Mod

can you prod SPAG too?..oh yeah, happy birthday

SPAG posted yesterday. I mean seriously man, you even quoted the part where I say the requirements for a prod

[curiouskarmadog]

what the?..my comment didnt go through..

again, sorry Albert, I guess SPAG's 2 or so posts in this entire thread left me thinking he was not posting...guess I missed the post yesterday

here on out, all requests for prods can be handled by someone else.

[curiouskarmadog]

unless I am missing something pulsewidth's last post was 08/19..it is now 08/23...I would like to hear more from him.

Prodding Nelly too..Gorckat as well...sheesh as soon as I find one replacement, I need another...non-stop! -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

I haven't had a chance to reread and post yet guys. Hopefully tommorow.

speaking of sitting in the shadows..

[curiouskarmadog]

the short of it is this...

I feel like Para is scum and should be the lynch of the day.

I have watched the interactions between you/Elias/The Hermit and want to see how it plays out. I do not have a problem with your playstyle and feel like much information is being obtained (if not indirectly). I do not feel like a Hermit lynch will provide much information for Day 2…and if had to pick between Hermit or Elias would lean toward Elias.

I am concerned with the lack of much of anything from Sir Tornado, Para, Pulse, SPAG, Gorkat, and DFN(Jordan)..with a Deadline pending, got a feeling some mafia might be lurking.

Speaking of pulse, I'm currently looking for a replacement for him. -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

I see that Oman voted right before Para, but that still would have put him at –3 with Para’s vote –2.

Mostly it is this post

Well I've never lynched a mafia on day one. =(

Vote:Nelly632

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

that puts him at -3 I believe

“never lynched mafia Day 1”..sounds like to me that he is trying to find something to fall back on once Nelly comes up town. “Well, I told you I was bad at lynching mafia”. “He has force our hand”? What had he done to force our hand? There were other people that were down right lurking at that point..why didn’t that force his hand? I think he voted for Nelly because Nelly had some votes and he was hoping for a quick lynch. Then he puts in the “unless he’s mafia” comment. I just didn’t like. Why did you need to put that in? SO if he was mafia, he didn’t force our hand? To me, this posts smells like someone who has knowledge that Nelly is town.

Then post 154, he tries to spin it where I look scummy by saying I was hungry for a lynch…Which was absurd.

Now we have a deadline, he is just lurking…I bet that if the pressure where turned up, he would start chatting all of the sudden.

[curiouskarmadog]

one other thing I would like to note, I see that SPAG has gone through and updated all of his other threads he is in, but did not do so here..

Why?

[curiouskarmadog]

I haven't had a chance to reread and post yet guys. Hopefully tommorow.

speaking of sitting in the shadows..

Wow talk about hypocritical, I have 4 posts chronologically between your last two which were like 6 days apart, and I think each of them is larger than both your's combined.

I'll admit I don't enjoy rereading and I had hoped that current convo would reveal scum before I'd have to, and I forgot about the deadline. But seriously, CKD your posting has gone down alot compared to when you were posting every ten minutes trying to attack me and save Nelly. You sure put alot of effort into that, alot more than I'd expect a townie to want to save another.

btw, I just noticed this flipping back:

who is definately town?

I don't like this quote at all.
1. It's pretty stupid not to realize that we aren't sure if anyone is town.
2. It looks like trying to figure who's best to NoKill/whether or not people still suspect volkan.

Fos: CKD

before you take a quote out of context, could you please provide a post number....

[curiouskarmadog]

Found it post 179. What did Para fail to mention? It was response to Oman’s quote previous to.

Well, a very intricate plan, but sadly, I am just cautionary atm. I've had bad experiences with Vigs and I do just want to wait for everyone.

What do you mean the word "prefer" is incriminating, if I'd said "NO WAIT" that would be stupid, I'm not the boss of you.

I have reasons not to like your whole plan, even the claim came off a bit suspect, but if no-one counters I'm willing to believe you.

Also, the vig doesn't neccasarily have to be townie.

I approve of your plan, considering option 2 was to kill me, I would rather you hit what is potentially scum then what is

definatly town

, bad habit.

I felt that Oman was scum, and I wanted to know who he felt was “definitely town”? It would have provide some insights. Which he answered later (answer himself)

So you try to take ANYTHING out of context to begin a case on me?

I don't like this quote at all.
1. It's pretty stupid not to realize that we aren't sure if anyone is town.
2. It looks like trying to figure who's best to NoKill/whether or not people still suspect volkan.

Fos: CKD

I think it is quite scummy to pull a quote out of context to use it for your benefit. Of course you don’t provide a post number for it. If anyone goes back to read it, they will immediately see it was a question toward Oman, who we all know if scum…dead scum. I wanted to know who scum thought was “town”. This question was not directed to the town. This had nothing to do with vollkan…personally I think YOU know the mafia will want to kill vollkan (our one shot vig) and you want to try to set me up for it. So you take a quote out of context and lie about it to form a case..

TOWN: please go back and read the actual quote placing…you will see para is trying anything to deflect suspicion on himself!

this is our Day 1 lynch!

[curiouskarmadog]

this is ridiculous

[curiouskarmadog]

What is ridiculous?

the hermit's self vote

[curiouskarmadog]

I am not sure enough that Hermit is scum..(currently with his self vote he is at -2). I think that without the replacements here we will probably have a no lynch. For the record I would rather no lynch then lynch someone who I am uncertian of. I think that Para (or Elias) are the way to go...I think Hermit is an overzealous idiot townie....did Hermit ever vote for Nelly? I will have to go back and check, seems to me that he would have gotten a vote in there to lynch Nelly is he was scum.

Hermit, remove your vote from yourself if you are town. If you are town and you hang yourself you are not saying "look I told you so"...you are displaying your immaturity..more like "fine, I am going to take my ball and go home"...be a man, and fight with your last breath. I can show you plenty of times I was lynched Day 1 or 2 as town and kept pointing fingers as I went...it didnt help me when I was hung, but it helped the town in later parts of the game....dont be immature...dont be a bad townie....if you are dead, and the town still wins, it counts as a win for you...

[curiouskarmadog]

If it comes down to a deadline, I favour lynching (in order):
1) Elias (on that note:

Unvote, Vote: Elias_the_thief

; then VERY closely followed by
2) Hermit; then
3) Para

I've never been in this sort of deadline situation before and it is rather frustrating because I don't know the best way to deal with it. Usually it is the person with the most votes and, hence, the number of votes is never really an issue. We may even need some kind of democratic system among the 7 of us, if worst comes to worst (hence why I listed)

I would rather lynch Para, for lies upon mis truths...but if the time comes I will vote Elias...I am not sold on Hermit and if everything remains constant will not vote for him Day 1.

[curiouskarmadog]

great post...

looks like Hermit will hang today....I would perfer it to be Para..but Hermit's play is just bad.

[curiouskarmadog]

by my count, Hermit is only at -2.

Elias, Nelly, Para, Jordan....

Of course Para and Elias are on another wagon....I encourage everyone to do a play by play on Para!!!..this is our lynch..I think that this is Hermit's first game and is just a bad townie....lets look at it this way...if Hermit is scum, who is his scum buddy?...This lynch is too easy...if Hermit was scum, I think he would have hammered Nelly.

Para actually has lied and used quote out of context to form a case and deflect suspicion from himself. He is our scum...he gets his vote in and just disappears?

TOWN this is our scum....

[curiouskarmadog]

Para actually has lied and used quote out of context to form a case and deflect suspicion from himself. He is our scum...he gets his vote in and just disappears?

Jesus Christ would you please stop saying I'm lying? We all know that you don't really know whether I was lying or made a mistake, and when you talk so authoritively about stuff like that it'll make you look like an idiot if your wrong. Also I don't know what you're talking about me disappearing. I've put more effort and logic into justifying and explaining each of my votes than you have in all of your attack on me which you've been sitting on for a very long while.

You put more effort, huh? What a joke. You try to build case on me by pulling a quote out of context to show I am scummy. When I call you on you false implications, you say

I didn't know the context, I only read it in passing like I said.

Lots of effort put forth to build a case..”read it passing”…I have been “sitting” on it because unlike you I just don’t jump on easy wagons.

[curiouskarmadog]

Well guess what? You've got no idea whether or not I'm scum, no matter how many times you say that you do. And the things you are saying seem to convince no one. So why don't you look for somthing or consider some new possiblities instead of sitting here repeating the same things and attacking me like I'm wasting time? If it get's to a deadline you can always play your consitency card and continue sitting on me.

I do not need to play any type of card...your scummy nature is "forcing my hand".

[curiouskarmadog]

Unfortunately(unless he's mafia), he's forced our hand. It's 100% necessary to lynch someone who doesn't play.

Upon rereading, this is one of the scummiest posts in the game. Far scummier then Hermits, though his was similar. He says it is 100% necessary, ignoring the possibility of replacement, and later, he renounces replacement. He doesnt take back that we should lynch people who dont post content (at least hermit took it back)

hmmm....so where is your vote again?

[curiouskarmadog]

Whoa what?

That means a day with no discussion, which is very anti town.

that's too bad, if we're gonna have to lynch some random guy inevitably, why not make it sooner so you can get on with hunting?

This was biggest slip up so far. “so

you

can get on with hunting”? ummm, aren’t

we

suppose to be hunting scum? Why are you not hunting scum? Not only do you state you want the day to end sooner, your justification to Elias is so “you can get on with hunting:”

HUGE SCUM SLIP UP HERE!

No Para, if I have anything to do with it, we are not going to lynch some random guy. We are going to lynch the scummiest guy in this thread…you.

You say its acceptable in certain cirmumstances, yet you dont even try to find out the circumstances in this scenario.

WTF do you mean? I read the whole thread

Really you read the whole thread? Is that why you pulled something out of context for your case, then said I was just skimming through. So are you reading or skimming?

[curiouskarmadog]

Wait a minute...that is your whole response to Para post?

Any comment on the slip up?

[curiouskarmadog]

(mouth drops open)

[curiouskarmadog]

Whoa what?

That means a day with no discussion, which is very anti town.

that's too bad, if we're gonna have to lynch some random guy inevitably, why not make it sooner so you can get on with hunting?

This was biggest slip up so far. “so

you

can get on with hunting”? ummm, aren’t

we

suppose to be hunting scum? Why are you not hunting scum? Not only do you state you want the day to end sooner, your justification to Elias is so “you can get on with hunting:”

HUGE SCUM SLIP UP HERE!

No Para, if I have anything to do with it, we are not going to lynch some random guy. We are going to lynch the scummiest guy in this thread…you.

Believe what you want, none of you seem to want to see things any other way than what you originally expected.

My god...you just slipped up and told us your alignment..not to mention you are arguing for a short Day 1...this is a huge red light..flashing...with sirens...and a small fireworks show..

[curiouskarmadog]

vote: Sir Tornado

A little out of left field, I admit, but he promised us a post 5 days ago at the same time he apologized for lurking for 5 days. He has numerous posts in other games since then.

Comments on the actual events of the last two days shortly. I've read up and want to mull it over for a short bit.

you do understand if we dont get the votes needed for a lynch, we have a no lynch right?

at least that is my understanding

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd seems to be pushing xombie pretty hard. Makes a big show of leading the town, too.

FOS: ckd

there is no "seems" to it..I am pushing hard..I think he is scum...wouldnt you push hard if you thought someone is scum?..Why are you FOSing me...we do not officially know Para's alignment yet..will you still FoS me if he turns out scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

This is a pretty bad slip, but I still think the town-tell that Oman said he'd prefer a Paradox vig over anyone else outweighs the scumtell you've pointed out there.

why is that? If I was Oman and I was trying to find a quick fix to get some town cred I would have fingered someone I knew was scum. Lets say Vollkan vigged Para (on Oman's insistance) instead and he turned out scum..wouldnt that have bought some Oman some cred?

[curiouskarmadog]

This is a pretty bad slip, but I still think the town-tell that Oman said he'd prefer a Paradox vig over anyone else outweighs the scumtell you've pointed out there.

why is that? If I was Oman and I was trying to find a quick fix to get some town cred I would have fingered someone I knew was scum. Lets say Vollkan vigged Para (on Oman's insistance) instead and he turned out scum..wouldnt that have bought some Oman some cred?

Oman might have thought that we would think that he might have simply sacrificed one of his own to gain town cred. I'd imagine he would have gained some town cred, but not nearly enough to make him consider decreasing his chances of winning by that much.

So we dont really know why Oman picked who he did...that (in my mind) does not out weigh Para's scummy play.

[curiouskarmadog]

These are a few of your statements that get my attention as being leading:

TOWN: please go back and read the actual quote placing…you will see para is trying anything to deflect suspicion on himself!

TOWN this is our scum....

By themselves, they are very "appealy" to something (authority, perhaps- I forget all the various sorts of appeals).

Early on, many of your posts were non-commital- calling out lurkers, asking others opinions before giving your own, vote counts. "Helpful" things. Plus your reaction to xombie's slip (I'm not sure of whether it is as big a deal as you make it).

They feel like noob scum to me. Re-reading xombie, Hermit, ckd, Nelly, Oman, Sir Tornado...I'm not convinced that xombie is the lynch for today. Certainly not the way you are.

I'm still poking at Sir Tornado with my vote, atm. I'll be checking in later to see what's what.

I am not arguing with you on the point..I am pushing...but you still didnt answer the question, am I still FoSed if Para comes up scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

Early on, many of your posts were non-commital- calling out lurkers, asking others opinions before giving your own, vote counts. "Helpful" things. Plus your reaction to xombie's slip (I'm not sure of whether it is as big a deal as you make it).

and another point, how do you know that my pushing for a Para lynch is not pro-town?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am still playing guys, just had some RL problems.

what is the deal with SPAG? His RL problems are not stopping him for posting frequently in other games (3 posts yesterday)...the above post was posted 7 days ago....

[curiouskarmadog]

Early on, many of your posts were non-commital- calling out lurkers, asking others opinions before giving your own, vote counts. "Helpful" things. Plus

your reaction

to xombie's slip (I'm not sure of whether it is as big a deal as you make it).

They feel like noob scum to me.

Re-reading xombie, Hermit, ckd, Nelly, Oman, Sir Tornado...I'm not convinced that xombie is the lynch for today. Certainly not the way you are.

I read the bolded as you thought I was noob scum..did I read this wrong?

[curiouskarmadog]

and another point, how do you know that my pushing for a Para lynch is not pro-town?

You don't know that me pushing to lynch Nelly wasn't protown! HOW IRONIC!!!!!!!

were you pushing for a Nelly lynch? I thought your hand was forced...You were almost reluctant to vote. Probably to cover your ass when Nelly came up town...no this is different, I am pushing and my hand wasnt forced.

[curiouskarmadog]

Guys, seriously, pm your friends. I am trying very hard to find replacements before deadline.

so we can pm them?

[curiouskarmadog]

oh..you mean replacements?...crap..

I sent SPAG a pm that read..

only writing this because Albert said I could

Guys, seriously, pm your friends. I am trying very hard to find replacements before deadline.

have you forgot about this game?

[curiouskarmadog]

recruits...sure let me see what I can find

???

Geez. lol -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

thanks SPAG...we are under a deadline type thing...good luck

[curiouskarmadog]

vote: curiouskarmadog

I am sure a reason is forthcoming.

[curiouskarmadog]

For one, looking at why ckd pm'd SPAG.

because I thought the Mod said we could..once I realize that he didnt mean that...I instantly published what I PMed him

[curiouskarmadog]

OK so I am in other games with SPAG (if you metagame you will find me voting for SPAG in other games because he was actively posting in other threads while letting other games[like this one] go or he was lurking.) I have already been “called down” for asking for prods to frequently. I essentially wanted to have SPAG prodded here when I wrote.

I am still playing guys, just had some RL problems.

what is the deal with SPAG? His RL problems are not stopping him for posting frequently in other games (3 posts yesterday)...the above post was posted 7 days ago....

so Albert posts this.

Guys, seriously, pm your friends. I am trying very hard to find replacements before deadline.

I read this as he was having a hard time finding replacements and he wanted us to help by Pming our friends (I thought he met the people in the thread) because he was too busy.

In post 407 he mentions he has little time…then again later he posts.

I'm considering it. Keep discussion going.

I am going to add a new special rule: don't second guess me. I have already asked extensive advice from higher powers and the most experienced mods, so it isn't your place to question me at every turn. Honestly, I only have a limited amount of time to finish this game up because of a new personal routine I am implementing. Upon a rough estimation, I would give this game maybe another 5 weeks or so.

EDIT: If I can somehow find replacements before deadline, I am likely to give you an extension of a week or two. If not, deadline is set in cement and the replacements will arrive on day 2.

So I thought he wanted us to prod (in this case SPAG).

Thus I wrote…

Guys, seriously, pm your friends. I am trying very hard to find replacements before deadline.

so we can pm them?

Not wanting to second guess him I Pmed SPAG exactly what I said I did…7 minutes later, Albert mentioned recruit replacements….figuring out my error (1 minute after Albert’s post) I posted that I did PM and what I PMed…

My only motivation was to have SPAG active or replaced before deadline.

[curiouskarmadog]

And not pulse?

I thought I read that ALbert prodded pulse already...I didnt see him say he prodded SPAG.

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, I have objections which I've already stated, all I say is I urge all of you voting for Paradox to reconsider and really think about this. I still find Hermit to be a much better lynch.

I always get hesitant about having my vote assocaited with a lynch, because I like to think I am a pretty decent scum hunter...I get a scum vibe off Para from is miscounting and misquoting to his slip ups..I just think this guy looking at this game from a scum prespective

I stand by my vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

Howdy. I'm reading the thread and will post once I'm caught up.

thanks for joining

[curiouskarmadog]

I decided a few hours ago to suspend my promised hammer due to an open question to SPAG, as well as the extension.

Given a replacement, I'll wait another 24 hours (again barring substantive/reasonable objections).

Para is at 4 votes (by my count). Your vote in 24 hours won't hammer; it will put Para at L-1.

Para is currently -1

[curiouskarmadog]

given Gorckat's play in the past 2-3 pages, I would be surprised if gorckat hammer's para

[curiouskarmadog]

we will see

[curiouskarmadog]

and pulsewidth was replaced

[curiouskarmadog]

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

I absolutely agree with you. I have been noticing this for about 3 pages now...(thus my comment about I would be surprised if Gorckat hammered)

Gorkat starts to push a weak case agianst me once it fails, seems to begin attacking SPAG (who then unvotes)...interesting...

SPAG if you think Para is scummy..vote him, dont let Gorckat push you around

[curiouskarmadog]

Paradoxombie - 5 (volkan, ckd, Elias, Nelly, Gorckat)

by my count, Para is at -1..normally I would say proceed with caution, but I sure we got scum on this one.

[curiouskarmadog]

we really have not heard that much from him lately. I do not think he has much of a defense...he posted yesterday this.

Okay seriously at least two other people have made mistakes in vote counts. I think it's been established that it's easy to miscount.

but that was just one item of many. I would like to hear what he has to say too..

[curiouskarmadog]

well will need to reread...

sorry Para, but once you misquoted me and tried to start a case with that misquote, I thought that was quite scummy. Your, "I just read it in passing" comment didnt help...

[curiouskarmadog]

The rereading the first 8 pages has left me slightly at a loss. I was so sure that Para was scum Day 1 that I didn’t really pick up on some things…couple things I would like to note, not really cases per say, but things I need to look into more when I have time.

Post 57:

Oman attempts to make a case against DFN (now Jordan) but does not put a vote on him. He later states that he thinks DFN(Jordan) or Oj (now para) is scum.

Hmmm..post 70:

Oman makes a big deal that DFN (Jordan) thinks OJ (para) is scum(post 61) by “noting” it. However, in post 63, Elias, makes the same statement and Oman doesn’t say a thing. Why would Oman noted that DFN thinks OJ was scum, but not note that Elias 2 posts later did too?

Post 72:

Oman votes DFN (Jordan) mainly because he feels everyone makes a good case.

Post 74, a hypocritical comment from SPAG, almost like a forshadowing.

oj is a bit of a loser really, he doesn't even read any games he just votes. In another game he voted for me when i was at -1 and i had character claimed.

Anyway, he could be town, he could be scum, theres just no way to tell.

quote really doesn’t mean anything yet..just thought it was funny, given his actions at the end of Day 1.

Post 84:
Oman, states he feels like Gorckat is mostly pro-town…still pushing DFN and now adds Nelly to possible scum lists.

Again, the Gorckat comment might not mean anything at this point, Oman could be trying to get Gorckat off of his back.

Post 88: DFN, attempts to attack me with crap logic and tried changing the quotes to suit his case. It was caught quickly and struck down just as quickly. Later (91) Dfn explains he misquoted by accident.

Ugh, post 99:

I'm starting to think we're best off killing ojpower immediately so his lurking, random-voting self can't kill us later when we're at LyLo. At this point I don't even care whether he's scum or not, I want him gone.

Vote: ojpower

by itself this is a scummy post, however it should be noted that Thehermit did not hammer Nelly or OJ(para later) when he had the chance.

Post 102: Oman mentions that thehermit post was scummy, but that hermit explains it in (101) to Oman's satifaction. Still attacks DFN

Post 106:

Gorckat votes Nelly because Nelly unvoted at vollkan’s request. Should be noted that vollkan later is discovered to be town/vig/mason.

Post 123:

Pulse(now Set) thinks Hermit’s play is scummy..votes.

Post 124: Nelly self votes?..strange play, but sets up a ton of action.

Post 132:
Elias questions both Hermit’s and Nelly’s self vote…so he votes Nelly

Post 135 Oman vote nelly

Post 136: Para miscounts, votes, and puts Nelly at –1. Last 4 votes are put on Nelly in a 3 hour period.

Post 148 Interesting comment from Sir tornado (now Shanba)

I don't like the way Oman put Nelly on -2, and simply left.

Why did he not mention that Para put Nelly at –1 “and left”…neither had posted after their vote.

Post 155: Nelly explains his actions…Gorckat/Elias/Oman/Para trap of sorts…puts vollkan and myself on the townie list…votes para for many the same reasons many of us pushed for the lynch.

Post 156:
Oman votes Para. I was so head strong about Para, I thought Oman was just distancing.

Post 159: Vollkan puts Para/Oman/Elias under suspicion…also claims he is the vig.

Post 162: nelly asks Para to roleclaim. Missed this before. Vollakn also mentions that he might kill Oman and Elias too….Nelly doesn’t ask anyone else to RC…but I guess Vollkan DID suggest Para over the other two.

Post 165: Vollkan asks if anyone objects to Para being vigged.

Post 167: Oman says he would like to see Para vigged and he thinks Elias is more pro-town then Pulse…not sure why he mentioned Pulse at this point…or compared Elias to Pulse….

Post 187:Back from Vacation, Gorckat unvotes Nelly, thinks Nelly contradicts himself in reference to a comment he made about me, challenges vollkan and thinks he might be a scum vig.

Post 197: Gorckat rereads and places his vote on the vote leader Para.

Post 199: Gorckat unvotes Para but states Elias or Para would be good lynch targets (this is a strange post).
-----------------------------------------------

Ok so that is the end of Page 8…I actually have to work so I will continue later..

To address this recent statement:

iirc, the 3 names on the list were drawn from the Nelly wagon, weren't they? Oman wasn't just pulling names out of the air.

I was the first to vote, Nelly self-voted, and the names on the list (and Oman himself) all voted Nelly afterwards, with one of them going on after Nelly unvoted, correct?

Why do you think Pulse voted for Nelly?

[curiouskarmadog]

Did he? I actually haven't gone back and re-read today. What I remember were comments about other scum being on the Nelly wagon. I really couldn't say.

If he did vote Nelly and you're looking for my thoughts on

why

he did, I'd have to re-read shortly (swamped at work, but still trying to play my games )

Pulse did not vote for Nelly...it appears that Oman got the name out of the air.

[curiouskarmadog]

Continuing on…we left off with the end of the Nelly bandwagon and the new discovery that Vollkan was a vig.

Post 201 – 210 Para and Elias go around and around about the scumminess of OJ.

Post 209: I ask Elias if he felt Hermit and Nelly were scummy, why did he put his vote on Nelly (putting him at 3 votes) when Hermit only had 1.

Post 211: Elais explains that if Nelly came up scum and Elias placed his vote on Hermit, it would look like he was trying to distract. (umm, wouldn’t that go the other way too, if Hermit came up scum? Don’t know why I didn’t ask this the first time.)

Post 216: Elias states that vollkan could still be scum.

Post 217: Gorckat to Elias.

Your record as scum does not preclude you from being caught out here. Why are you playing to help the town by being afraid of a distancing accusation?

interesting.

Post 220: Elias to Gorckat

I actually havent brought up distancing once.

Interesting again. Elias also continues to question vollkan scumminess after I state he was cleared in my eyes until Day 2.

Post 225:

I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.

Oooooor the mafia could simply pick somebody else to kill tonight and laugh as we lynch the townie dayvig tomorrow. If they're really crafty, they'd worm some way into making his survival looks suspicious so that the dayvig would be forced to lash out at one of his attackers, possibly killing another townie. Hey! Sorta like what you're doing!

FOS: curiouskarmadog

He's confirmed as the dayvig. He's not confirmed scum or town. Even the night won't change that... well, unless he turns up dead in the morning.

Hermit appears to agree with Elias.

Post 229: Vollkan votes Elias (which begins their argument)…which goes until at least until 299. The argument revolves around Vollkan feeling that Elias was scummy, using Oman’s list, Hermit’s scumminess, and Elias vote for Nelly over the Hermit as focal points. Para (against vollkan) and Gorckat (against Elias) jump in at points.

Post 241: Sir Tornado (Shanba) comes out of no where and agrees with the Hermit that Vollkan can be scum and he does not see why the mafia would kill vollkan Night 1.

Post 247: again Sir T FoSes me for asking Elias if he was suggesting we lynch vollkan. (I guess Sir T selectively missed my 2-3 posts saying I personally did not want to lynch Vollkan Day 1 and I felt he was cleared until at least Day 2)

Post 249: Nelly feels swayed about Elias and votes him.

Post 257: Hermit doesn’t like the way that “elias is misrepresenting him” votes Elias.

Post 262: I begin my “campaign” against Para (who at this point has two votes on him Pulse (Set) and myself…and we start to go back and forth.

Post 268: Gorckat votes Elias…putting Elias at –2.

Post 270: Gorckat unvotes Elias…

Post 284: Elias posts his thoughts on everyone (at my request). Which is an interesting read. Felt SPAG was town (note: at this point SPAG has only posted 10 times, and nothing over 3 sentences). Para: was undecided. Felt I was scum. Felt Hermit was scum. No comment for Sir Tornado, Gorckat, and Nelly. AGAIN, no Nelly comment, even though he deemed it important enough to vote Nelly over Hermit, but didn’t think it important enough to comment on Nelly. He does say this though..

So most of my suspicions are currently on Hermit and CKD, though I need to finish rereading, because I missed some players in my reread. (gorkcat, nelly, sirtornado)

Just thought it was interesting that he added SPAG to the list, but left out Nelly and gorckat.

Post 295: Hermit unvotes Elias. Not confident about his vote.

----------------------------------------------
That ends page 12…need to work again.

The vollkan/Elias exchange was very time consuming to read, but there are some good points there.

Rereading this, Elias you are lucky I was so head strong about Para…most likely I would have joined this bandwagon against you.

I am noticing somethings in the reread that I missed before, but need to finish to be sure.

[curiouskarmadog]

The vollkan/Elias exchange was very time consuming to read, but there are some good points there.

Read closer. Vollkan, proven townie, admitted it was a meta debate in the end and he actually had no evidence in the end. Are you seriously convinced that I'm scum by his admittal of error?

interesting, I never said I thought you were scum..

[curiouskarmadog]

The vollkan/Elias exchange was very time consuming to read, but there are some good points there.

Read closer. Vollkan, proven townie, admitted it was a meta debate in the end and he actually had no evidence in the end. Are you seriously convinced that I'm scum by his admittal of error?

interesting, I never said I thought you were scum..

Then why did you say you were considering joining my wagon yesterday? For kicks and giggles?

good point, guess I do find you scummy at this point in the reread...


please provide the post that vollakn admitted his error?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am still here...

any comment on how Day 1 went?

[curiouskarmadog]

any comment on how Day 1 went

Day went actually went better then I would have expected, we knew we were going to lose Volkan during the night but atleast he took out scum with him on Day One. Truth be told my vote changed to Paradoxombie based on your confidence in his guilt. Now that Day Two is upon us and he has been

proven guilty

you would assume that I would immediatly turn toward you but that is not the case.

I believe that you were confident that he was scum but being sure of something and it turning out to be wrong does not make you scum.

I still have my thoughts on Hermit & Spag and the truth be told I am personally choosing between them right now and once I decide I will post more.

I assume you mean "proven innocent" (bolded area)...and yes I was sure tha Para was scum...I just dont like the way that he played and what clinched it for me was the misquoting to push a false case.

[curiouskarmadog]

There would be no fault in pushing a lynch of para, were it not for the fact that a better wagon on Hermit was going on simultaneously. Of course, thats completely my opinion. I will only find your puch for a para lynch suspicious if Hermit comes up as scum.

I believe your bandwagon was going on as well, does that make me scummy if you come up scum as well?

back to the read

[curiouskarmadog]

Lacking the time to finish the reread at the moment. However, just noticed that Elias felt it was worthy to note that vollkan apparently said his argument with Elias was moot, but didn’t find it necessary to comment on why he thought SPAG was town in post 284.

Please do so now.

[curiouskarmadog]

SPAG has been replaced or killed for looking in all of his games...even the game he was modding a back up mod has taken over..

[curiouskarmadog]

Skimming back to Elias' player reviews (in two posts):

SPAG: All his posts have given me a town feel, though no one post stands out. Official Opinion: Town

9 posts, all brief (~3-5 sentences each)

SirTornado: None of his posts seem scummy to me. His posts agree with many of mine, and he seems to have town's best interest at heart. Official Opinion: Probably Town

8 posts, including a long review of action at the tail end of the DFN action, some short

Pulsewidth: Um, barely enough posts to analize. Official Opinion: Undecided, slightly scummy looking

8 posts, 2 very long

Even though he agrees with Sir T, he can't pin him down as town as solidly as SPAG, who didn't have as much content as pulse, whom he said he didn't have enough to get a read on?

I was concentrating much harder on posting my opinions of the players I found scummy/defending myself. My posts were lacking I suppose in tersm of why I thought people were town. Also, there is more to posts then just how long they are. There is also what they are about and how well reasoned they are. You're coming from the assumption that I base all of my opinions on amount and length of posts, which is ridiculous.

good point, can you please provide some quotes in which you based your "officially town" rating for SPAG?

[curiouskarmadog]

no, I just find it interesting given that spag posted little to nothing that you felt he was town. I found it more interesting that you other off your list at that time.

[curiouskarmadog]

crap. Totally forgot about this game.

now that you remember it, will we get some input..

I have more of the reread recap (mostly for my benefit) to come...just time consuming to break it down....lack the time right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

OK starting on page 13.
--

Post 302: Para mentions that Elias stuck out in his head because he made a big deal about how vollkan could be scum, then Hermit followed his lead. Para makes some decent points about how Hermit and Elias should have handled vollkan possible “Scumminess”. FoS elias.

Post 303: Eluas wants to know what big deal did he make about vollkan being scum (to Para)

Post 304: Elias addresses the others he left off his original list. Sir T (now shanba), town., Nelly noobish town, Gorckat and Pulse (now Set) undecided. Elias confirms that Hermit and myself are scummy, but now Para is making that list. Votes Hermit

Post 308: Para posts to Elias…going to let Para’s words do the talking.

Well you forgot these parts:

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.

I dont think we should lynch, im just saying he shouldnt be cleared. I'm not necessarily talking to only you when I say that, but the whole town.

Did you forget those? I did, but I didn't say them. I think it qualifies as more than a mention at that point.

And then this is the clincher:
(this time the bold is just for accentuation)

I need to reread before I say anything, but I'm suspicious of Hermit[.....] and Vollkan, since I'm town,

the fact that Oman indicated me last on his list seems to be too convenient to be a coincidence.

I seriously think that Oman and Vollkan (mafia aligned dayvig) had this worked out as a planned gambit.

This is actually the post that made me make a mental note and suspect you over it, I simply forgot it when I was laying everything out. In the part I italicized you suggest that Oman mentioned you as a way to get you lynched. Well this admits that you think Oman mentioning you is damning evidence, SO damning that he must've been out to get you. This is BS, Oman was confused and acting slightly sycophantic to volkan. He could've just been making up suspicions and prefferences. Maybe he actually realized his own suspect status(it's not that hard to see that volkan was out to get him) and want you to get mislynched later.

But you go as far as to use Volkan's unconfirmed-ness as a defense. It's stupid. You think Oman's preference of you is so significant that you now suspect Volkan. Volkan has done nothing seriously suspect! There's no reason to "seriously think" that the whole thing was a plan to get you.

I'll tell you what it looks like to me, it looks like you've gone from denial to playing on everybody's suspicions, redirecting them at Volkan. It's weak, it's contrived, and it's scummy

then Para vote Elias.

Para and Elias go back and forth a bit and in post 317, Para unvotes.

Post 319: vollkan places a huge FoS on Hermit.

Post 321: This post to vollkan from Hermit was my second beep on my scumdar. Basically Hermit says he voted for Elias because he “skimmed” through vollkan and Elias’s argument and thought that vollkan was making a good case.

Post 323: Vollkan answers Hermit..(good read this post)..Notes Hermits backtracking, ignoring points, and generally strange play.

Post 326 until 355: Hermit, Elias, and vollkan go back and forth.

Post 351: Vollkan asks why my vote is on Para. I answer in post 357.

Post 358: Vollkan places the second vote on Para (at one point pulse removed his vote)

Post 360: Para’s misquote. This is what really set me off. At this point, I was watching the Hermit/vollkan/elias exchange trying to figure out what I thought…then when Para dropped this, I thought there was nothing scummier by far in this game. Para also FoSed me.

Post 363 until 366: Vollkan/Para/and I discuss the misquote.

Post 367: Nelly posts a rather long breakdown on everyone. Feels SPAG and Hermit are our scum. Votes Hermit.

Post 368: vollkan agrees with Nelly

Post 369: Hermit attacks Nelly (or defends himself, cant tell)

Post 370: Elias provides Hermits three backtracks.

Post 371: Nelly attacks Hermit back.

Post 374: Hermit self votes…(ugh)

Post 384: conversation about Deadlines..Vollkan votes Hermit.

Post 390: I mention that Hermit is at –2. I comment that I feel that Para or Elias is the way to go for a Day 1 lynch. I mention that Hermit did not hammer Nelly when he had the chance.

Post 391: vollkan moves vote to Elias.

Post 396: vollkan unvotes

Post 397: Hermit unvotes himself.

Post 398: Para votes Hermit.

Post 401: Jordan comes out of no where and FoSes everyone, but votes Hermit.

Post 404: doesn’t want anyone to hammer until Hermit gets to say something.

Post 407 until 424: Para and I go around

Post 416: Elias unvotes

--

Got to end for now end page 17…Hermit endures a bandwagon. Para seals the deal in my eyes. Still noticing a theme. Not much from Gorckat (vacation) or SPAG. Elias continues to look scummy in many people’s eyes.

[curiouskarmadog]

Starting off with page 18….

Post 425-435: Elias/myself/Vollkan question/attack Para and para responds.

Post 436: out of nowhere (Gor admits) Gorckat votes Sir Tornado. Gorckat says he wants to hear ST’s comments on the event of the last two days. (side note: at this point, gorckat has not posts comments on the events for the last two days).

Post 439: Jordan agrees with vollkan’s questioning of Para(mostly).

Post 442: Gorckat FoSes me for pushing the Para lynch pretty hard. (true I did)

Post 450: I asked Gorckat how he knows my pushing of the Para lynch is not pro-town. (interesting question now in Day 2)

Post 451: Gorckat answers with “its not?”.

Post 453: Para and I go around for a bit.

Post 457 until 463: SPAG PM deal….

Post 464: ST asks for a replacement

Post 466 Gorckat votes for me (no reason given at the time)

Post 467: vollkan votes for Para.

Post 470: Elias votes for Para (put him at –3)

Post 473: Nelly votes for para (-2)

Post 474: The Hermit feels that Para, Elias, and nelly are suspicious…votes of Elias.

Post 478: SPAG asks for the case against Para (doesn’t want to read the thread)

Post 479: Gorckat explains that he was indeed calling me newbie scum in an earlier post.

Post 481: SPAG has not read the thread, but due to many people being sure (and spag reading para’s comments..votes para (-1)

Post 482: Gorkcat says he prefers a lynch to a no lynch and says he will hammer Para if needed.

Post 494: gorckat unvotes me after discussing the SPAG PM incident.

Post 495: Jordan thinks that Hermit is a better lynch

Post 521: after Gorckat asks SPAG why he has a vote on Para, SPAG removes vote (due to game extension.

Post 522: Gorckat reinstates question to SPAG “Anything in particular xombie did that got your attention?”

Post 523: SPAG answers “Mainly the things that Vollkan outline, they were the main scummy points” admits again he has not read the thread.

Post 524: Gorckat “You said you looked at his posts. What did you see”

Post 525: Vollkan notes Gorckat lack of content and FoSes him.

Post 526: I agree with vollkan, tell SPAG not to let “Gorckat push you around”

Post 528: Gorckat defends himself. Also mentions that he thinks there is a link between SPAG and myself.

Post 533: gorckat votes Para (-1)

Post 534: SPAG FoS Seteal because it seems like Seteal is “pushing SPAG to vote”

Post 537: Do not like this post…

ok i've had a read through. Throughout the whole of this phase, OJ now Paradox have stuck out like a sore thumb. Some of paradox's comments and cases have been cringeworthy.

I've been thinking, he's an experienced player, surely if he was scum he would be a better player than this?

Though i can't see anything other than a Parodoxombie lynch. And a Paradox lynch will give us some information. If he turns out mafia, i agree it will make me look suspisious for unvoting him but also it will show something about Gorckat, who seemed to defend him a fair bit, but voted him to put him at -1, as if giving up the fight to protect a scum partner and make himself look town. However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.

I think, ahead of the information this could give us, it is probably a good lynch. But the fact that an experienced player could play scum so badly is putting me off the idea. I would like to hear from PX himself before i place a vote.

Says OJ/Para sticks out like a sore thumb, feels that Set has pushing Gorckat and SPAG for a Para lynch. Also says vollkan and I really pushed for it.

asks to hear from para before voting

Post 541: 38 minutes later SPAG hammers Para…he also says..

Oh yeah, i forgot to say good job on Oman I trust you will be protected.

he knows he will not be protected…no doc in the game…interesting.

Post 542/543 find out Para was town and Vollkan was NK (mason/vig)

Post 545: Set calls out SPAG on his crappy play and vote. Votes SPAG.

Post 548: Shanba (SirT’s replacement)votes elias, claims gorckat as town.

Post 549: Elias posts that…

Moving on, I expected Vollkan to get killed, being the most obvious protown player, and also since killing him off protrays me in a scummy light. In light of this, I'm going to remind everyone that discussion is our friend. Im going to reread.

(wait, don’t I remember you trying to convince the town that vollkan could be scum? How come you didn’t say back then that vollkan was the most pro-town player? Was that because at the time he was attacking you and you wanted to try to discredit him?)



that ends page 22…Para and vollkan dead and both town…Elias and SPAG under attack..still in reread. Will post my current stance at the end of it (once I get a full picture)….

…as full of a picture one can have looking at a jigsaw puzzle with pieces missing.

[curiouskarmadog]

First,

Unvote

just in case.
I'm going to read and post my thoughts.

THANKS for replacing!

you got some tough shoes to fill

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: Hermit

I am sure you have a reason coming...

[curiouskarmadog]

fyi, I am in Day 2 of typing a rather long post about my thoughts on individual players...it is coming soon.

[curiouskarmadog]

Let see...

YagamiLight replaces Spag who I thought was scum...

He defends Hermit he defends Hermit in a manner that rubs everyone the wrong way.

Unvote

I personally believe that Both are scum buddies and good choices for this day.

Vote: Yagamilight

OK thats -2...

[curiouskarmadog]

please dont exceed -1 ...I would like to get this mammath post Day 2.

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, we have two mafia left, who might they be? During the reread my opinions change and I am sure they will keep changing as I form this post. I will go ahead and break everyone down as I see it. If I miss something important about someone, you would like to defend something I said, or you simply have more experience in matters that I address, please be my guest. Also, I encourage you to break me down too. I am not as confident Day 2. I was so sure we had scum with a Para lynch. I am not as sure of myself Day 2 that I want to make such an aggressive case against someone as I did against Para. That being said, lets begin.

We have x2 mafia left..who are they?

Think I will try giving people a scale 1 town 5 neutral 10 scum

Shanba, formerly Sir Tornado, formerly Kerplunk.

In my experience, a role that constantly changes hands is usually a boring vanilla townie role. This does not clear this trio of players, but it lowers thier ranking in my mind that they are scum. Shanba, came into the game attacking Elias, later unvoted him. Through some suspicion SPAG’s way. Light poster so far, promised more content about 3 days ago. SirT did not give us much. I was actually quite suspicious of his play. I have been in a game with SirT when he was mafia and played the exact way: light poster coming in every so often to make a comment then disappear. Only to become super active endgame…but he left this game and is still active in others. Think is was bored with the role (because the actual thread is quite active). While SirT was here, he played that way. Made some strange comments, nothing very protown in my view, Shanba balances this with a comments that seem a little more exploratory, but again, I need more content. Rating: 5

YagamiLight, formerly SPAG

Might I add I despise SPAG. I was in 3 other games that he was in and he had to be replaced in them all. Even the game is was modding (which I replaced into) had to go to a back up mod. In this game, SPAG lurked. When he did remerge he skimmed through posts and placed a vote. When attacked for this he unvoted. Said he would not hammer until he heard more from Para. Appears to set up anyone who pushed the Para lynch and then 38 minutes later he hammers for no reason. This has already been pointed out. The fact that SPAG left the site entirely shows that he didn’t really give a crap. In reference to this game, he could be a lazy bad townie or an obvious scum. Yag has not provided much info either (BUT more than SPAG). Breaks down Elias and I, sort of implies we look scummy (I think). Promises more content to come.

The fact that SPAG didn’t really give a crap (and eventually leaves the site completely) works in his favor when it comes to scumminess. If it weren’t for that I think the rating would be higher…however he is still pretty high on the scumdar. Rating 8

Setael, formerly pulsewidth

Again, pulse did quite little. Seems to lurk and jump in every so often (much like SirT). I have never played with pulse before so I do not know if this is common practice for him. Pulse was on Oman’s infamous list. Under Para, but before Elias. We know that Para was town (now) What does this mean for the other two on the list? Surely Oman would not have placed both of his scum partners on this list, but did he place any at all? We wont know for sure until end game. Pulse was not on the Nelly wagon (but what does that mean?) Set, came into the said he would put Para at –1 if needed, but his vote was not needed (so he wasn’t on this vote either). Day 2 started and he went right for SPAG (and I have to say rightly so). Says he would support a Elias lynch too. Set seems pro-town in his posts. Rating 4

Pulse was hard to read, but Set seems like he is working for the town…but still not enough to move him any closer to 1.

TheHermit

Ahh, this one is a little harder. Hermit is one of those during the reread I flopped back and forth on. Post 99 was (vote on OJ, didn’t care if he was scum or not) was a horrid post (later we find that Para/OJ is town). If this had been said later in Day 1 about anyone, I am sure that Hermit would have hung instead of Para. Post 102 does not help matters, Oman thought the post was scummy, but Hermit explained it to his satisfaction. Just be noted, I don’t feel like Hermit explained jack (reread the post). Hermit begins to back pedal, when under vollkan’s scrutiny. Admittedly skims posts then votes or comments. Self votes. After I say that vollkan was town in my book until Day 2, Hermit feels the need to paint a ridiculous scenario (post 225) which vollkan will live Night 1 and the town will lynch him Day 2. States that vollkan is not confirmed scum or town. (I never said he was confirmed, I simply said I would not lynch him day 1). That post seemed very dramatic for no reason. However, he did not vote or hammer Nelly or Para (when he had the chance). In my mind that bought some town creds., until his recent post (618):

Oh, and while I'm shooting my own defense in the foot by digging at Setael, I'm going to mention that just because I didn't hammer Nelly or Para when I had the chance, it doesn't prove I'm not scum. It doesn't even suggest it. As Elias points out (correctly) in Post 149, most scum won't carelessly hammer at the first opportunity. It sets off all sorts of warning bells and provides a clear Day 2 target for a lynch, and scum can't afford a 1-1 trade. So it's possible, and in fact simple, for me to be scum even if I didn't hammer. It doesn't speak either way to my townness or scumness.

Why did he feel the need to post this? There was absolutely no reason to post this. I read the quote, Elias is talking about Nelly and quick lynches in general. Para was not a quick lynch. So if you hammered him and stated a case, you would not have had that much heat. Now, I cant figure out your motivation for this post. Is he trying to look more town by posting this? Why does he feel like he needs to look more town? Is he trying to give Elias some creds? Is he trying to cover for SPAG’s hammer(doubtful)? This post is suspicious looking if you start to think what prompted him to say this.

Like I said, I am back and forth on TheHermit. Rating 7.


Gorckat

hmmm, another one I am back and forth on. Couple things early on had me feeling that Gorckat is scum. In Post 84, Oman gave Gorckat his seal of approval (for really no reason). Go back and read the argument (starting 80) knowing that oj was town and Oman was scum. Votes nelly 106 and revotes nelly 126 and goes on vacation. Personally I hate it when people vote and let us know they are leaving. So when the get back if someone has hung, they can always fall back on, well, I couldn’t removed my vote because I was gone. 9 posts later Oman puts Nelly at –2. Gorckat comes back from vacation post 181. (187) Gorckat challenges vollkan’s vig claim and town status. This rubbed me the wrong way, and still does. Post 197, puts Para at –2, but then unvotes (199) reasoning was strange. 213, questions why mafia would kill vollkan (this was obvious, thought this was a strange question). 215, ask Nelly why it is important to direct a doctor to protect vollkan, (again what)? Votes Elias at 268 (again –2) removes vote on 280 (not 270 as my pbp says) Gorckat sort of falls off my radar at this point. (442) FoSes me for “making a big show” about pushing the Para lynch. (443) I ask why he is FoSing me, almost appears that Gorckat knows Para’s alignment (retrospect) sort of beats around the bush for a couple posts when I ask him why my pushing for Para’s lynch is not pro town? Gives me some sort of answer (451). “its not?”? Post 482, says he will hammer Para is needed. (533) gorckat puts Para at –1. Hasn’t done too much since the NK. When seems to keep an attack on Elias and SPAG.

You know after writing this out and rereading it..you do look pretty scummy. When I started this post (on you) I thought maybe I would end up arguing that you were more neutral than anything (scum and town moves balancing each other out)…but now, I think you might be scum…Rating 7

Jordan, formerly DFN

Well I didn’t like DFN plays at all. Anyone can go back to read that mess and see that DFN was quite the newbie, got embarrassed and never came back. No real read there. Jordan has been a very random poster. Doesn’t really give us anything until (401) when he practically Foses everyone and votes hermit. Since the NK, aggress with Set about SPAG and votes SPAG….that is really it Rating 5

Elias,

One of the other ones I have gone back and forth on. Certain things stick out about Elias, much has been gone over in detail (thanks to vollkan). Of course, Elias was on Oman’s list. (132), Elias thinks Nelly and Hermit are scummy, but decides to place the 3rd vote on Nelly instead of Hermit, he has explained why. He also didn’t think he needed to take his vote off Nelly, after Nelly’s self vote and getting to –1, again he has explained why. I didn’t like the fact that vollkan had trouble excepting the fact that Vollkan was clear in my eyes (for Day 1). Kept pushing he could be scum. During vollkan and Elias exchange (which was heated and meaty) Elais seems to answer every question to vollkan’s points and tends to be thorough. Eventually (323) vollkan does admit that the argument was pointless, then Hermit grabbed vollkan’s attention. Elias goes after Hermit pointing out his backtracks. Elias unvotes Hermit because of Para’s scummy post. Elias puts para at –3..since the NK Elias defended himself against Set’s and gorckat’s attacks, and seems to be attacking Hermit and indirectly FoSing me.

At this point, I really am not sure about Elias, he seems to be bringing up some valid points about people and his cases are decent…Rating 6

Nelly

Really not a lot here. Is definitely one of our active lurkers. Don’t really like his play One of the games self votes. Seemed to buddy up with me because I didn’t jump on his bandwagon. Attacked Hermit, Para, Elias Day 1…Put Para at –2. Been lurkerish Day 2 as well, Votes Hermit for an old reason (need that post number I think) has jumped on the Spag/Yag wagon.

Hard to tell…Rating 6, mostly for lurking and pop up voting.

-----------------Ok so that is my break down.

Top three SPAG/Hermit/Gorckat..however, there can be only 2.

I don’t like how this SPAG wagon is just flying by at warp speeds. Currently neither gorckat or hermit are on those wagons. Though Gorckat has stated that he might be putting SPAG to –1. Once I state we should not exceed –1, he mentions that he has no desire to end the day so fast…

After my two rereads…I am not liking Gorckat

Vote gorckat

Maybe we should start (conversation) by addressing my break down of you.

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, now I feel like an ass hat.... just when I post carp about someone..

YagamiLight, formerly SPAG

Might I add I despise SPAG.

I find out this (from another game), posted by a friend(I think)...


"Hello guys,

I don't often post on the forums other than in the legends and in the mafia games, but I would just like to enlighten the situation with Sean, aka SPAG.

I'm afraid it's bad news. He was involved in a footballing accident during a match which resulted in him damaging his back. He is still currently in hospital and is partially paralysed from the waist down, though it's thought to only be temporary and through physiotherapy he should be able to be active again at some point.

He will be carrying on with PFF and Mafia when he gets back from hospital, but as you can guess he will have other priorities. I hope he has a speedy recovery.

Paul"


yeah, I hope he gets better soon...

[curiouskarmadog]

well, here is my problem...top three are Yagami/gorckat/hermit...

yagami taking the cake with the highest scum rating..his analysis of hermit didnt really come up with anything new (still coming up neutral to Yag)

Yag, I would like to hear two things, at this point...who do you think are the scum pair (and why?)

Yagami..and your claim.

[curiouskarmadog]

Who are you directing that question to, Hermit?

And... can everyone not voting for Yagami please explain the reasons they think he is Town.

no doubt, I feel yag is scummy.

but I do not want to end this day quite yet..seems to me a couple people here have yet to give us any analysis (or at least not much of one)

[curiouskarmadog]

well, here is my problem...top three are Yagami/gorckat/hermit...

No response to my post responding to your case (even if its only "I don't buy it")?

I will read over it again....try to post something later today

[curiouskarmadog]

Who are you directing that question to, Hermit?

I was directing it at Yagami, although I suppose I can now ask it of gorckat as well. What gives the the impression of a connection between Elias and me? I'm trying to understand how you got this idea. I don't want Elias to get lynched, come up red, and then having the town waste their good fortune by coming at me next.

As for why I'm not voting Yagami, I want to let the day play out a little more. See if I can learn anything new.

in my reread I (too) saw a connection between you and Elias...now it will take me days to go back through it all (and will if it is needed) and present why I thought this...the reason I really didnt bring this to light is because you two have also been going at each other as well. granted it could be distancing, but I figured it wasnt important enough (at this point) to go back and provide quotes and posts....it will be very time consuming and I dont think it is needed at this point...

as it stands, neither you or elias are close to being lynched? What makes you think that elias will come up red? if you think elias is scum, why arent you voting for him?

[curiouskarmadog]

and a hush grips the game

[curiouskarmadog]

I think if Yagami was Town he would be fighting harder to not get lynched, rather than sitting silent at -1 and waiting for someone to hammer.

ok, lets see what happens...he is on my scum dar (above hermit and gorckat)..the fact that neither has voted for him makes me wonder..

I will hammer..

unvote, vote Yagami

[curiouskarmadog]

In a previous post I stated that I believed SPAG & Hermit to be scum & at this point we have lynched SPAG & he turned out to be scum. So on this note with the game being rushed at a fast pace I am going to go with my previous thoughts & vote for who I suspected before...

Vote: Hermit

Doing some rereading, Gorckat is pretty high on my list, just above hermit now....going to back to reread a bit and adjust my scum ratings to reflect Day 2.

[curiouskarmadog]

I still reckon Elias is town, and am firmly opposed to his lynch today. I need to finish my analyses, as I'm not really sure who might be his partner. Will re-read his posts.

if you think Elias is town, why does he need a partner?

whose partner are you talking about..


still in the reread.

[curiouskarmadog]

OK updating my views and ratings from Day 2.

We have one mafia left, who is it?

Scale: 1 town 5 neutral 10 scum


Shanba, formerly Sir Tornado, formerly Kerplunk

Day 2, shanba caught Yag basically posting content for content’s sakes. Helped lynch scum, give some town creds, but again, Shanba only posted 4 lines(in 3 posts) of content Day 2 and Day 3. The fact he helped lynch scum went in his favor, but the lack of content in posts balances it out so there is no change.

Day 2 Rating 5, today’s rating 5.

Setael, formerly pulsewidth

Day 2, Lead the charge after SPAG (scum) with a secondary target of Elias. Had pretty solid analysis. Day 3, comes out of the gate attacking is secondary target (Elias). I think that his analysis is a again pretty solid. Seems to be actively scum hunting, and has appeared to have the town interests at heart. I think he is town.

Day 2 Rating 4, today’s rating 3.

Thehermit.

Hermit ranked high on my list Day 2. Yag gave Hermit a neutral rating and hermit was the only one that yag got to do a pbp on. (not really a tell either way). It doesn’t go into hermit’s favor that Yag gave is neutral rating before doing the analysis, but again, could be a tell either way. Seems concerned that if Elias comes up “red” so will he. Now we now know that both can not be scum, so this comment makes since if it came from a town perspective. Hermit feels Elias is our scum, and if he came up red (which hermit thought he would) he didn’t want to be associated with him. Again, Hermit did not vote on the SPAG/yag wagon, but I just don’t think Hermit likes to vote. Has done a PbP on Gorckat..Appears to be scum hunting..Back to not being sure about him. Not sure if he is acting town, or acting like he thinks town should act.

Day 2 Rating 7, today’s rating 5

Gorckat

Gorckat ranked up there with Hermit on my list Day 2. One thing that sticks out about Gorckat (other than doing practically nothing Day 2) was that he express a desire to vote Yag because he thought he might be scummy, but never did. I think this could be a way to distance, but never actually have to add to his partners way. He had no problem voting and pressure people Day 1, why does he have a problem doing it when we actually have scum on the line? Day 2 and 3, thinks Elias is out scum. However, he has done very little to help us find scum. If he thought yag and Elias were scum yesterday or today, how come he hasn’t put forth a case yet? Ask some questions? Anything? I think he is laying low. Coupled with my analysis yesterday I think it is a good possibility that he is our last scum.

Day 2 rating 7, today’s rating 8

Elias

Wasn’t sure about Elias yesterday. Was pretty much not around much or provided little content Day 2 (could be laying low). Preferred a Hermit lynch over Yag (ugh). Claims he did not see anyone’s case against Yag (which was only proves he was not really reading the game, but again ugh). I don’t like the fact he gave SPAG an “official town” rating Day 1 for no reason then just accidently overlooks all the cases again yag/spag day 2. I think seteal might have caught Elias in a lie.

This really isnt fair. I dont really understand what the case against him [Yagami/SPAG] is, but I dont think that he's town. I've already presented strong cases against Hermit in the past, and I dont see why you expect me to vote for yagami, and i dont see why you act as if its wierd when i dont.

I don't see how Elias could've really not understood the case on SPAG/Yagami.

Because no one ever really represented the case besides saying "OMG HES LURKING OMG LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH" as far as I saw.

Claims that no made a case against Elias, I presented a case too, you didn’t see that either? I didn’t like much of elias’s defense to seteal’s attack. Seemed to be going out of the way to ignore SPAG/yag I think he too is a good candidate for scum.

Day 2 rating 6, today’s rating 8

Nelly

Again pop in voter and low low content. Again I don’t like his play, but I think that he just how he rolls….no change here. I would like him to take the time to put forth a case.

Day 2 rating 6, today’s rating 6


That being said, I support and will vote Elias or Gorckat (I think our last scum is in that pair)

Vote gorckat

[curiouskarmadog]

Thanks for finally posting some content, even if you are barking up the wrong tree.

I guess I am a little confused at what your case is against me (in reference to SPAG). Please dumb it down for me a bit.

I guess one of your problems is my rating system and timing. Day 2, I put Gorckat 7/hermit 7/and spag 8….I could have simply said that Gorckat, hermit, and spag was my top three, but wanted to convey that I thought SPAG was a little scummier than the others. IF the situation would have been different I would have voted SPAG/yag then. However, he was at –2 with talks (by gorckat) to get to –1. I had a feeling that if I voted for yag, he would have been hammered immediately. I wanted conversation to continue a little more, mainly I wanted to see how people reacted to my suspicions. If you go back and read (when I posted my player break down) the Yag wagon was really rolling, I didn’t want to have a quit lynch Day 2. Did you?

He seems to think an awful lot of people are scum. He lists both Elias and Gorckat as 8s (a rating I disagree with fundamentally) and Nelly as 6. Basically, that's anyone who's really been under any pressure this game. It's also a neat list of who might be lynched.

Why do you fundamentally have a problem with gorckat and Elias being at an 8? Your next two sentences are incorrect.. Please show me where gorckat has been under more pressure than hermit (who I ranked a 5 today). Seems to me, even day 3, Hermit is under more pressure. As a matter of fact, I seem to be the only one actively pushing for a gorckat lynch.

On a side note, I meant Yagami/Spag's partner. That much should have been obvious, given that the front post says we only have three scum and two are dead.

IMO, this is either here nor there, but your post was confusing and I wasn’t the only one it confused.

I still reckon Elias is town, and am firmly opposed to his lynch today. I need to finish my analyses, as I'm not really sure who might be his partner. Will re-read his posts.

And yet Hermit hasn't changed on his scumlist, and elias has suddenly gained on him. This post could also very well be a last ditch attempt to get something out of his partner's lynch by linking a couple of players to him.

I think maybe you might be skimming over posts, Hermit HAS changed on my scum list 7 to a 5. I find elias’s play Day 2/3 suspicious that is why his rating increased.

So again, why am I a good lynch today?

[curiouskarmadog]

Skimming new posts and this jumped out at me:

That being said, I support and will vote Elias or Gorckat (I think our last scum is in that pair)

Really? Is there any other reason to lynch someone (being scum)?

you are right, I must be guilty of being redundant…why did you feel it important to point this out?

[curiouskarmadog]

Seemed like you were telling yourself by telling us. SPAG/Yag's being scum did make me go back to the whole PM issue, but I let it go again since you hammered Yag, didn't you?

interesting that is all you got to comment on out of that big long post..

why didnt you vote for Spag?

if you feel like there is a case to be made against me..make it, dont wait until you get a feel for where the town will be going.

[curiouskarmadog]

Right now, Elias is still my number one suspect. Actual (unstated on Day 3, obv) case aside, it seems to me he'd be a big distraction the next two potential days. I don't see us clearing him to the point that we are ever comfortable going in another direction.

why even add this last part? What are you saying? Seems to me, that you are indicating we get rid of elias because he might be scummy, but even if he isnt, he will distract us the next two days while we look for scum. First of all, I think I would like to lynch scum today thanks...second, I am not in the business of jumping on a bandwagon because someone is distracting...clearly I am not distracted that much, I am suspicious of Elias, but not distracted. Some people would say I was distracting...someone might argue hermit was...will you use the same arguement tomorrow as well?

[curiouskarmadog]

Finally, I'd say that Nelly is more convinced I'm scum than Elias is. Nelly opened up Day 2 and 3 by voting me immediately, only changing on day 2 when it was obvious someone else was going to get lynched. I'm going to take a look at Nelly next.

actually if it is all the same to you, do me next.

[curiouskarmadog]

What is it that gives it invection then? Youve simply dragged me around in a circle: what is it that makes this word any more invective then words such as "screw", "f**k", or "frick"? They all mean the same thing. There is absolutely no reason that saying "frick" should be acceptable, and "fuck" should not. I do not use these words to hurt. I use them as tools to add emphasis to points. To fully utilize a language you must be able to comprehend and put to use any words that you wish to, not put them through some imaginary filter of what is socially acceptable.

Anyways, this is a meta debate for another time. I cant get to the points brought up in Hermits last post right now, or what set said about it. Tomorrow.

seriously conversation is stale...want to get back to actual game content?

[curiouskarmadog]

I said tomorrow...you call this conversation stale? wierd. I think we are having good conversation with the meta debate on the side. Also, what do you call that post? You could have easily posted content then added that on the side...why didnt you?

the conversation about the usage of "fuck" was stale., ..how do you know there was no implied content in that post? You are smart Elias, do I really need to spell it out for you?

[curiouskarmadog]

huh?

Nevermind. You're too young to get the pun. -Mod

it is a reference to a song in the 80's, I am not to young.

[curiouskarmadog]

no it wasnt. the conversation was very game relevant. Hermit threatened to vote me or ask for a mod kill based on language alone. Learn to read, this discussion needed to be had, unless you wanted hermit getting me lynched because I swear too much.

the conversation was not needed (on both sides)..if he had a problem with it, he should have asked the mod, I doubt the mod would of killed you without a warning..conversation is stale and not needed (or relevant).

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont think he threatened you based solely on you cursing, but if you want to use it to win yet another irrelevant conversation go ahead..

that being said we are 4 days away from deadline, we need to start getting together a vote..seems like everyone has mentioned they could vote elias (but yet there is only one vote on him)..I said I would vote if needed, but would prefer a gorckat lynch...

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus christ let it go...he also said in the same post,

He's been warned once about this already; if he continues verbally abusing other players, I am going to ask the mod to kill/replace him.

he ended with this statement, sounds like he would have done this instead..it also sounds like you are trying to make a big deal out of nothing...which now has made the conversation relevant for me...out of all the things you could be doing "today" you want to argue about this..

[curiouskarmadog]

Anyways, I think there is one thing I can point to that should basically clear me.

When there were two lynch candidates, para and hermit, which did I push for? Hermit. Who got lynched? Para. What was Para? Town. Now why in hell would I try to push pressure off of a townie onto another player, were I mafia?

You can point to yesterday, where I push for Hermit over Yagami, but isnt this simply me being consistent with my previous opinions? I dunno.

ummm, you might have "pushed" for hermit, but you voted for Para. Once e you could not get the needed support for a Hermit bandwagon, so you jumped on the Para one?…

[curiouskarmadog]

it also sounds like you are trying to make a big deal out of nothing...which now has made the conversation relevant for me...out of all the things you could be doing "today" you want to argue about this..

1) it was relevant. He threatened the possibility to vote me. I as a townie do not want to be mislynched.
2) What exactly in my last post changed your opinion? Before you said we were debating something irrelevant...all I've done since is argue that it IS relevant. Its not like I made it a voting issue or anything. Basically what I'm saying is, I think the only reason youre claiming its relevant now when it wasnt before, is so you dont get called for doing the same exact thing you claimed I was doing.
3) Again, I never stopped posting in a game related manner. I've just been having this debate on the side. Have you continued to concentrate on the main issues? not really

it is relevant for me now, because you keep making a big deal out of nothing and you wont let it drop. You werent going to be mod killed, you werent close to being "mislynched". Besides, if you are a townie (as you stated) and the town still wins, you win. Only person who really cares if they get lynched or not are mafia. Who do you think will lynch you solely on the fact that you said "fuck"?

[curiouskarmadog]

Anyways, I think there is one thing I can point to that should basically clear me.

When there were two lynch candidates, para and hermit, which did I push for? Hermit. Who got lynched? Para. What was Para? Town. Now why in hell would I try to push pressure off of a townie onto another player, were I mafia?

You can point to yesterday, where I push for Hermit over Yagami, but isnt this simply me being consistent with my previous opinions? I dunno.

ummm, you might have "pushed" for hermit, but you voted for Para. Once e you could not get the needed support for a Hermit bandwagon, so you jumped on the Para one?…

This is a mischaracterization. I had been pushing for a Hermit lynch, ie, I had my vote on him most of the day. Yes I switched to para, but I mean, he's townie. As scum, why would I push for any certain townie over another? If para had turned out to be scum, and I had such a push for Hermit over him, youd have a point. But why in hell would I push away from para in favor of Hermit, when pretty much the whole town was already on him?

ok thats it..

vote elias

It was not a mischaracterization, it was the facts. You say you are consistent because you kept pushing for hermit. So why did you jump on the Para wagon? Why would you push one townie over the other if you were mafia? Seriously you are asking that question? Wow. Well, because one was close to being lynched, and the other wasn’t. Last time I checked, mafia wants to kill townies, they don’t care which ones.

[curiouskarmadog]

just in case

unvote, vote elias

[curiouskarmadog]

Also, everyone who is saying that I was downplaying the Yagami case:
1) What evidence is there besides the hammer? I asked earlier today, no ones come up with anything.
2) I said that I didnt understand the case on Yagami yesterday. No one explained it or tried to persuade me, or anything. So why do you bring it up now as if I didnt try to figure it out yesterday?

again you are using this defense? I thought we already established you didnt "see" or missed the arguements that were made against Yag...the cases were made, now quick backpedalling...did you not "see" the cases or did you not understand them?

[curiouskarmadog]

bold is me.

I am using the words synonomously. I asked about the case, because I didnt see one. But people were voting him. I asked about it, I got nothing until after SPAG was lynched. So you can see that this was simply me using a different term to say the same thing. But you used it as a clever way to get around both of my points.

1) WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE BESIDES THE HAMMER? ANSWER GODDAMMIT!?!

2) WHY DID YOU NOT ATTEMPT TO TELL ME THE CASE YESTERDAY, YET TRY TO USE IT AS EVIDENCE TODAY?

Will you answer those if I do that?

What "evidence" is there about anyone? What evidence was there about Oman and he was scum. It wasnt just the fact he hammered, it was how he did it...and if that wasnt enough Yag's posts Day 2 were pretty damning. I posted a case, Set posted one as well OUR POSTING THE CASES WAS THE ATTEMPT, ELIAS...you are acting like we didnt present cases and just voted him out of no where.

It was not a mischaracterization, it was the facts.

No, it was a mischaracterization. You presented it as if I was attacking Hermit all day, while simultaneously voting Para. The fact was, I voted Hermit, and attacked him most of the day, WHILE there was all that pressure on Hermit. Why would I even begin to vote and attack Hermit at all if there was already pressure on para that I could have easily jumped on?

you did easily jump on para's wagon...

You say you are consistent because you kept pushing for hermit. So why did you jump on the Para wagon?

Because I thought he was scum too? It was obvious that Hermit was not being lynched, because everyone was being steadfast on Para, and I was afraid of a no lynch. A better question is "what motivation do I have to start the day by attacking a less likely lynch candidate, were I mafia?"

How do I know? I also dont know how do you have a near perfect scum rating? Just because I dont know your motivation doesnt mean you are not scum...you are smart, you know that.

Why would you push one townie over the other if you were mafia? Seriously you are asking that question? Wow. Well, because one was close to being lynched, and the other wasn’t.

Dont townies do the same thing, if hes suspicious of both of them?

You just answered your on question. "Why would you push one townie over the other if you were mafia?"

Hey wait, didnt you threaten to do the same thing? And arent you claiming to be a protown player? So is this post just scummy or hypocritical?

I would rather lynch Para, for lies upon mis truths...but if the time comes I will vote Elias...I am not sold on Hermit and if everything remains constant will not vote for him Day 1.

And wait...didnt you also completely change your opinion about voting Hermit based entirely on a post by Jordan outlining points ID ALREADY MADE?!?

I am not the one trying to use that I am consistent as a defense, elias. I was merely pointing out that you are not consistent.

great post...

looks like Hermit will hang today....I would perfer it to be Para..but Hermit's play is just bad.

Then after the next post you change your opinion once again, driving more for Para then before?

so?

Then you just push your way to a lynch with the slipup. And youre trying to accuse me of being suspicious for switching to para? Youre play that day was much more questionable then mine. Honestly, I'm starting to think, YOU might be our scum. I think you vote for me now because youre frustrated, and people have thought about voting me before. It seems youre thinkin "one last BS point, that oughtta do it". But whatever. This is a type of argument I hate. But in all seriousness, youre basis for voting for me is BS and hypocritical.

OMGUS all you want Elias, I am not scum. My points are not BS. I think you are scummy not because you changed your vote, I think you are scummy, because (to add to my already stated case) you are trying to say that you must be a townie because you have been consistently trying to lynch hermit...when in fact you have not. I think you are scummy, because you have backpedalled stating that you did not understand the cases for Yag, then stated you did not see the cases (again which is it?) I think you are scummy because you are avoiding direct questions, I think you are scummy, because you are worried you will hang (only mafia should worry about that)...I think you are scummy, because you tried to make a huge deal about Hermit not liking your cursing...now, I think you are scummy, because now that I attack you, Hermit is no longer scum, I must be the scum...sad elias, sad

Also, I ask the town to look back to his push on Para: a supposed slip up that let him push his way to a lynch. He seems to be doing the same thing here. This doesnt make him scum, but when he did this last time, did para come up town or scum?
Just sayin.

You can also add trying to simplify a case that I made against someone (a supposed slip up)as a reason I think you are scummy. I admit, I pushed very hard for a para lynch, there was many reasons for that(can provide the multiple post numbers if needed..but you thought he was scummy to right?..cause you voted for him too.

if you think I am scum, why are you not voting for me?

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, well that came out of no where and was unexpected.

with elias's vote (I assume forth coming) and the fact I have been riding gorckat, I need to claim now.

I am one of the masons..

still want to push my scumminess?

[curiouskarmadog]

which by the way almost guarntees my NK, thanks Nelly.

[curiouskarmadog]

no time to retort to anything, had to claim because I will not have time to check later..felt that gorckat and elias (because I feel one of the two is scum) would finish me off and I would not be online to counter.

interesting to see what shanba and nelly do now I have come out (or even if they will check the thread before deadline)

will reply tomorrow..

[curiouskarmadog]

I was hoping the masons would make it till tomorrow and would be able to help us forc a win

I think the other one

should

claim now: It will help the rest of the town by narrowing down suspects now. We can work with a field of 4 rather than 6 (or 5, since ckd is out already).

this is why I feel gorckat is scummy...he was "hoping the masons could make it." yet he wants the other one to claim....dont worry about the other mason..THE OTHER MASON SHOULD NOT CLAIM!

I wish I didnt have to claim (and going into today I didnt think I would have had to), but I wasnt expecting the 2 votes out of no where..and since I have been hounding gorckat and elias, I assumed that those last two votes were going to be coming on quickly...

at any rate, I feel that one of our scum is either elias or gorckat...I am leaning toward Elias.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok now that we have wasted part of the day (and my last day here) talking about masons, lets lynch scum..

[curiouskarmadog]

nelly, no offense but I dont feel like you have read a lot of this game. (which explains about all of your votes) and again, why the mason talk?

make a case against scum...hell, make up for the fact that you have been a "total retard" and actually read my cases against gorckat and elias.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote: vote gorckat.

dont really believe elias, but I dont want you hammer yet...when I have time (more than 5 minutes), I will comment.

[curiouskarmadog]

should read "dont want anyone hammered yet"

[curiouskarmadog]

should read "dont want anyone hammered yet"

Man.

After

you've claimed you start acting obvtown. Oh well. I would like your input a lot, as youre the only person I

know

to be protown besides myself.

elais, you are not getting a pass..far from it. I just dont want you to hang before all options (well things I deem as options) are covered. once someone is hung, I am dead unless I can find scum before the day ends...and I dont have time right now....probably not time until Sun/Mon

[curiouskarmadog]

also,

FoS Set

, for jumping on the bandwagon too..jesus, this town goes back and forth

[curiouskarmadog]

that being said, I think i would like Gorckat to hang today.

[curiouskarmadog]

hopefully, we will hit scum today (again gorckat or elias is the way to go)..but if for some reason there ias a mislynch today, I will surely be gunned down tonight..thanks for the game it was fun...now win town!

[curiouskarmadog]

thats 3 votes right? (Elias, Seteal, ckd)...one more to lynch....

if I am right, game is over...if I am wrong, I am dead (go after elias tomorrow)..

so either way, this has been a good game everyone..

[curiouskarmadog]

During a quiet and distasteful supper, CKD's face suddenly contorts as he falls. He gasps incomprehensible things until his heart finally stops beating. Poison. You search his body and find a picture of him and volkan at the world cup with what seems to be their wives.

CKD, mason, has been NK'd night 3.

bah, good luck town

[curiouskarmadog]

good job Set, was reading thinking...shit, he better drop that breadcrumb, but you lynched Shanba...last night (before I was killed) I was sure about Elias (like I was sure about Para and Gorckat)..but half way through today I noted something Shanba said, that really stuck out as scum...

(going to keep that tell and my bread crumb to myself)

at any rate, good job Set...

So Oman's in his list, provide names of all innocents...who would have thought it huh?

good game all...Shanba, you played a pretty good game as mafia, too bad the rest of your team didnt.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I didnt think my FoS yesterday helped much...I thought for certian your ass would be lynched...on that note.

Nelly, you did exactly jack for this game.

[curiouskarmadog]

cant say mine improved (lynched incorrectly twice, correctly once)

still shocked that Oman's list only provided townies...(going to have to remember that)

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, hell, I was dead and still thought you were scum (until this last day)...right now I am 50% on getting a lynch right.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ah well I lost the pms. You know the deaths. The masons were volkan, ckd and Setael.

Post-game analysis coming soon.

thoughts on everyone thus far.

i am highly suspicious of elias and para at this point. they both (along with oman) jumped on the nelly wagon very fast.

Vollkan is now a confirmed vig and will likely be nked. thank you for your help day 1, your contribution is appreciated.

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

gorckat has not posted the whole game (i think) and as i thought dfn has disappeared

so..

Requesting a prod for gorckat and dfn, please.

Gorckat posted today. DFN will be prodded tomorrow. Don't bother asking me to prod someone if it hasn't been 72 hours without a post yet. -Mod

nelly:

Maybe it is because of the self vote, but I am thinking that nelly is just newbie town. A guess would be that he wanted to pull an “i told you I was town” type comment once lynched. Sort of guessing here though. Oman places his vote on him gives him some town creds anyway. Nelly, your thoughts on this?

I can't believe you guys fell for this easy breadcrumb.

The only names capitalized were pulse and volkan. Not only that, but the first letters of every sentence in the last paragraph states M.A.S.O.N. That was the most obvious one EVER.

CKD, that disappointed me soooo much. Usually masons will have complicated codes to cover up their crumbs...I remember mine used to be something like xyz=efg and something really complicated to prove the right formula was used.

---

Sorry man, this is retaliation for spamming my inbox every time I did something wrong!

You guys don't even know, every time something was missing in the opening post or a hammer fell or I mis-spelled a word, CKD was all over my ass! Unbelievable! This was a pretty high maintenance game.

Mod Announcement:

Mandatory feedback required

*coughs*

well, considering that was the first breadcrumb I have used on this site and no one caught it, I am quite proud of it.

1st, people missed it because it was buried in a ton of messages.

2nd, Set provided the post number so YOU knew where to look.


and yes, you did fine as a MOD.

[curiouskarmadog]

---

Sorry man, this is retaliation for spamming my inbox every time I did something wrong!

that is a little bit of an exaggeration..he left out that sent him a mail saying he was doing a good job too.

the only thing I didnt like, was the "if this game is still going when I leave, mafia wins"

[curiouskarmadog]

liked the flavor...read too much into the flavor...but liked it

[curiouskarmadog]

"Even CKD"? What the hell? You havent played with me enough to state "even CKD" I dont think that the mason (team) was as strong and the mafia (team) was weak. Shanba played well. Poor Yag replaced into a shit storm. Not understanding why Sir T decided he didnt want to be in this game.

[curiouskarmadog]

Also again, kudos Set, you won really won this game for the town...

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, your analysis and discussions were strong, but you twice mislynched in Parax and Gorckat, and if not for your stubborness, I don't think they would have been lynched. Not only this, you claimed inappropriately and as a result got NK'd. Despite of some major mistakes, I believe you played better than Shanba, Sir Tornado and most of the other players.

.

agreed, my biggest problem in the game (on this site) is being stubborn. I pick up something I think is a scum tell and cant let it go. I wasnt sure about the claim. I was shocked by the Nelly/Shanba votes putting me close to a lynch. I had been riding gorckat and elias pretty hard (and figured once of the two were scum), so I thought I was lynched for sure...I was getting ready to go to bed, and thought "if I leave this game tonight, am I going to wake up dead". With so many new people, I wondered if I was going to get opportunity to claim. oh well, play and learn.

[curiouskarmadog]

actually it was something you said that ulitimately made me hammer YL...think that was why you were neutral on my radar.