Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[Oman]

Well, its an option, but again, I'd prefer to wait for everyone else to check in and see if there is anyone who wants to say anything on the situation.

But yes, Vollkan, I approve. What information do you think could be drawn from it?

[vollkan]

Well, its an option, but again, I'd prefer to wait for everyone else to check in and see if there is anyone who wants to say anything on the situation.

But yes, Vollkan, I approve. What information do you think could be drawn from it?

Bravo scumbag. You actually fell for my trap.

You would prefer I wait. The key word here is "prefer". You are taking the classic cautionary approach so that if I vigged a town Pulsewidth you would be able to say you did not approve. You don't say: "Don't vig; wait for everyone else". You say you would "prefer" it.

However, it then gets even better. You go on to say that you approve. I couldn't believe you wrote that. You openly gave your consent that I kill someone even though there is very little case presented against them.

Even you yourself raised nothing against Pulse other than that post listing your preferences.

Oman or Para. Take your pick.

[curiouskarmadog]

you are a one shot vig?

Well, I think both Oman, Para, and elias are suspect..

of course, SPAG really has not done anything..

My vote for vigging is Oman (reasons already stated)...his quick vote on Nelly then his quick vote on Para is not sitting well with me...this by no means clears para, but I think Oman is the summier of the two..

[Oman]

Well, a very intricate plan, but sadly, I am just cautionary atm. I've had bad experiences with Vigs and I do just want to wait for everyone.

What do you mean the word "prefer" is incriminating, if I'd said "NO WAIT" that would be stupid, I'm not the boss of you.

I have reasons not to like your whole plan, even the claim came off a bit suspect, but if no-one counters I'm willing to believe you.

Also, the vig doesn't neccasarily have to be townie.

I approve of your plan, considering option 2 was to kill me, I would rather you hit what is potentially scum then what is definatly town, bad habit.

[curiouskarmadog]

who is definately town?

[Oman]

Well, I know i'm town, which was my argument. I know I'm town, so its better to hit a non-confirmed (from my P.O.V.)

[gorckat]

Holy smackerels....real quick and then I'll post again in a bit...

My 'second' vote for Nelly was based on ABR saying, iirc, that votes had to have the person's name spelled correctly. I suppose he could have been joking, but Nelly's flippant self-vote looked to me like he was saying, "Yeah I'll not-vote vote myself, too!" If he didn't say that, then I'm sure its in another game I'm playing and can quote that mod's in-game statement to show where I got the idea (since I haven't looked in this game, yet, and ABR could have edited it into another post)

Also note that I was questioning why he hadn't responded to the quick lynch questions asked of him. I saw him as avoiding direct questioning and felt that was suspect. I was never advocating the quick lynch he says I was hypocritical on.

My comment about seeing him in a few days was regarding his infrequent posting prior to his recent flurry.

I

am

out of town this Saturday through Friday, but I expect to get to an internet cafe at least once, hopefully twice, since I've got 3 games going on.

All that said, I need to read up this day-vig stuff. Just wow.

[vollkan]

What do you mean the word "prefer" is incriminating, if I'd said "NO WAIT" that would be stupid, I'm not the boss of you.

Let me go over this again.

You said:

Well, its an option, but again, I'd prefer to wait for everyone else to check in and see if there is anyone who wants to say anything on the situation.

But yes, Vollkan, I approve. What information do you think could be drawn from it?

You could VERY easily have said: "No, Vollkan. I don't think there is sufficient justification to kill Pulse". Instead, you try to make a facade of caution whilst then openly giving approval. The two are completely contradictory, of course.

I approve of your plan, considering option 2 was to kill me, I would rather you hit what is potentially scum then what is definatly town, bad habit.

Wow....no that was never the "plan".

I said:

Oman, I just did a bit of a reread and I got an idea.

What if I vig pulsewidth and then we can lynch Para? That way we get more information.

This "plan" (not the right word, since it was entirely a trick by me to attempt to get you to dig a hole for yourself) was that I kill pulse and then we lynch para. As stated above, you gave your consent to this.

This plan guaranteed pulse's immediate death (who in all honesty has not struck me as particularly scummy). From there, if pulse turned out town (as I suspect he would have) it would be easy for you to represent my alignment as questionable.

As such, the "plan" had absolutely nothing to do with your death.

[gorckat]

Oh, yeah- while I'm re-reading:

unvote

.

[Oman]

You could VERY easily have said: "No, Vollkan. I don't think there is sufficient justification to kill Pulse". Instead, you try to make a facade of caution whilst then openly giving approval. The two are completely contradictory, of course.

How are they contradictory? Can't I be cautious but approve of a plan?

[vollkan]

How are they contradictory? Can't I be cautious but approve of a plan?

*sigh* Again.
My "plan" post:

Oman, I just did a bit of a reread and I got an idea.

What if I vig pulsewidth and then we can lynch Para? That way we get more information.

Your response:

Well, its an option, but again, I'd prefer to wait for everyone else to check in and see if there is anyone who wants to say anything on the situation.

But yes, Vollkan, I approve. What information do you think could be drawn from it?

Let me try writing this in a list to make it clearer:
1) You say you would "prefer" I wait. You do not explicitly tell me to wait, which would be the only reasonable thing to have done.
2) You grant your approval of the plan being enacted
3) You ask what the benefit is

1) coupled with 2) is effectively you telling me to go ahead but also covering yourself so that if I went through with the "plan" and pulse had come up townie (remembering, of course, that I never had any intention of going through with it) you would be able to say that you had wanted me to wait.

Now, 3) coupled with 2) shows that you were prepared to support it even though you were not aware of what information it would gather (the bit about information was, of course, a bluff on my part). Hence, without any possible recourse to "I thought it would help us gather information" your reason for supporting would have to be that you desired the death of pulse BEFORE the death of para. This is utterly inconsistent with the fact that you had voted para at L-2, not to mention extremely suspicious purely on the basis that you wanted one player who has exhibited minimal scumtells killed prior to a player who is one of the biggest blips on people's radars.

Indeed, the fact that you would support such a plan AT ALL is evidence enough, but the rest of it just clinches it.

[Oman]

Let me try writing this in a list to make it clearer:
1) You say you would "prefer" I wait. You do not explicitly tell me to wait, which would be the only reasonable thing to have done.
2) You grant your approval of the plan being enacted
3) You ask what the benefit is

1) Iwould say it would be unreasonable to DEMAND you wait

2) Yes i do

3) I ask what YOU think we'll get from it. I want to know what connections YOU would make.

[gorckat]

in my mind the people who get really upset are less scummy then the people who take it in stride… Karma Dog once again questions me instead of voting for me, this is a great sign in my eyes…

You contradict yourself mid statement. If CKD was calm, shouldn't he be scummy?

Volkan is definitely mafia if he doesn't dies tonight, though.

WIFOM. The scum can let him go and use that as a reason to lynch him tomorrow.

@volkan: If he convinced you he's a scumbag, why didn't you off him already? If he fell for your trap, shouldn't you feel 100% assured he's dirty?

Are you bandying up support so that when he comes up town you'll still be in the town's good graces?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote count

Paradoxombie - 3 (Ckd, pulsewidth, Nelly632)

Nelly632 - 1 (Elias the thief)
Ckd - 1 (Deepfriedninja)
Oman - 1 (Paradoxombie)

With 12 players, it is 6 to lynch!

[Oman]

Also, hate to wreck you here, but if you "caught" a "scumbag" why aren't you voting me?

[vollkan]

Kill: Oman

Also, hate to wreck you here, but if you "caught" a "scumbag" why aren't you voting me?

Because you're dead.

[Albert B. Rampage]

After a brusque but heavy discussion, where accusations fly and egos are hurt, The Deepfried Ninja leaves the old but well-furnished living room, disgusted by Volkan. SPAG and Gorckat, who were both on the lookout on the rooftop for more mafia villains, heard one of the bedroom's door slam shut, accompanied by violent profanities. They both come down the stairs and demand to know what has happened. While the living room survivors explain to SPAG and Gorckat the recent events, Volkan silently pulls Oman away from the group to the kitchen. Unsuspectingly listening to Volkan while the latter turns the knob of the back door, Oman wonders if it is a good thing to be with one of the leaders of discussion. Oman follows Volkan outside, and answers his questions in a carefree manner, until he says something Volkan deems wrong. As the ruckus in the living room can still be heard and confusion reigns in the house, one man comes to a decision. Volkan pulls a gun from his trouser's back pocket and fires three rounds at Oman's chest.

"Yippy Kay yay..."

He is interrupted by curiouskarmadog that rushes towards him and attempts to disarm him, and both men struggle with the firearm. Ckd manages to unload the weapon, which is quickly confiscated by Paradoxombie, who is the second to arrive. Paradoxombie then walks back inside while everyone is running to where the noise came from. With an indiscernible look in his eyes, he goes to the toilet and flushes the two remaining rounds.

"These are too dangerous...even the criminals out there don't have guns."

When he returns to the small garden outside, everybody is surrounding Oman's corpse. TheHermit is kneeling, searching Oman's person. He finds a knife, a flare and a piece of paper that he reads out loud:

"Use the flare when they are all dead. Until you three complete your job, don't bother coming back. -Boss"

Everyone looks at each other suspiciously...

Oman, mafia, has been day-vigged day 1!!!

With 11 players, it is still 6 to lynch!

[Paradoxombie]

(bn.n)b *thumbs up*

[Sir Tornado]

Hmm... I will need a reread now. Oman's play did not seem to be nice to me, although not particularly scummy either.

ABR: I am concerned that I am not in the night scene. Am I not awesome enough?

[gorckat]

Holy crap...I've never seen scum drop day 1 in my games. That's pretty bad-ass.

Now to re-read who defended oman the most...how many times am I gonna have to re-read this game in one day, dammit

[Sir Tornado]

Oh, and this so reminds me of Ryan being mod killed in the original Friends and Enemies...

[pulsewidth]

Awesome death scene. Like everyone else, time for a re-read.

[gorckat]

Paradoxombie if Volkan is claiming he is going to kill you do you intend on RC before he does so or are you willing to just take his Day Kill of you without any attempt to sway him?

The only way I can see to sway him is to convince him that someone else is more suspicious than me. But the only person I can see doing that with is Oman, who I've basically already tried to. He thinks I may be his partner anyway, I don't know if anyone else thinks that too, but if they do I may be screwed anyway.

This catches my eye: "...if they do I may be screwed anyway."

If we think you two are partners, and one of you comes up town, doesn't that help you?

Something in there feels like, "Crap- we got caught."

vote: paradoxombie

[Paradoxombie]

Paradoxombie if Volkan is claiming he is going to kill you do you intend on RC before he does so or are you willing to just take his Day Kill of you without any attempt to sway him?

The only way I can see to sway him is to convince him that someone else is more suspicious than me. But the only person I can see doing that with is Oman, who I've basically already tried to. He thinks I may be his partner anyway, I don't know if anyone else thinks that too, but if they do I may be screwed anyway.

This catches my eye: "...if they do I may be screwed anyway."

If we think you two are partners, and one of you comes up town, doesn't that help you?

Something in there feels like, "Crap- we got caught."

vote: paradoxombie

You forget that I felt pretty confident Oman was scum; he made it easy. His whole BS case against me reeked of scumminess. Idk why no one else has mentioned that yet, maybe it looks worse from my perspective.

[gorckat]

xombie's post in isolation from Oman's case against him looked bad, but it does look like Oman was pushing hard for him to go down...

Oman does put pulse up above Elias, who has also registered as scummy...

unvote

Need to go heat up my pizza and sit down 'not working' so I can read some more.

I'm thinking Elias or maybe xombie as lynch targets at the moment.