now that you remember it, will we get some input..Shanba wrote:crap. Totally forgot about this game.
I have more of the reread recap (mostly for my benefit) to come...just time consuming to break it down....lack the time right now.
then Para vote Elias.Paradoxombie wrote:
Well you forgot these parts:
Elias_the _thief wrote:Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.curiouskarmadog wrote: ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.Did you forget those? I did, but I didn't say them. I think it qualifies as more than a mention at that point.Elias_the_thief wrote:I dont think we should lynch, im just saying he shouldnt be cleared. I'm not necessarily talking to only you when I say that, but the whole town.
And then this is the clincher:
(this time the bold is just for accentuation)This is actually the post that made me make a mental note and suspect you over it, I simply forgot it when I was laying everything out. In the part I italicized you suggest that Oman mentioned you as a way to get you lynched. Well this admits that you think Oman mentioning you is damning evidence, SO damning that he must've been out to get you. This is BS, Oman was confused and acting slightly sycophantic to volkan. He could've just been making up suspicions and prefferences. Maybe he actually realized his own suspect status(it's not that hard to see that volkan was out to get him) and want you to get mislynched later.Elias_the_thief wrote: I need to reread before I say anything, but I'm suspicious of Hermit[.....] and Vollkan, since I'm town,the fact that Oman indicated me last on his list seems to be too convenient to be a coincidence.I seriously think that Oman and Vollkan (mafia aligned dayvig) had this worked out as a planned gambit.
But you go as far as to use Volkan's unconfirmed-ness as a defense. It's stupid. You think Oman's preference of you is so significant that you now suspect Volkan. Volkan has done nothing seriously suspect! There's no reason to "seriously think" that the whole thing was a plan to get you.
I'll tell you what it looks like to me, it looks like you've gone from denial to playing on everybody's suspicions, redirecting them at Volkan. It's weak, it's contrived, and it's scummy
I'm not coming to that conclusion, you lead me there:Elias wrote:You're coming from the assumption that I base all of my opinions on amount and length of posts, which is ridiculous.
He was within one post of two players that you felt town. One of those players had contributed very little, as Hermit pointed out. It appears that you wanted SPAG cleared and pulse not.Elias wrote:Pulsewidth: Um, barely enough posts to analize. Official Opinion: Undecided, slightly scummy looking
Says OJ/Para sticks out like a sore thumb, feels that Set has pushing Gorckat and SPAG for a Para lynch. Also says vollkan and I really pushed for it.SPAG wrote:ok i've had a read through. Throughout the whole of this phase, OJ now Paradox have stuck out like a sore thumb. Some of paradox's comments and cases have been cringeworthy.
I've been thinking, he's an experienced player, surely if he was scum he would be a better player than this?
Though i can't see anything other than a Parodoxombie lynch. And a Paradox lynch will give us some information. If he turns out mafia, i agree it will make me look suspisious for unvoting him but also it will show something about Gorckat, who seemed to defend him a fair bit, but voted him to put him at -1, as if giving up the fight to protect a scum partner and make himself look town. However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.
I think, ahead of the information this could give us, it is probably a good lynch. But the fact that an experienced player could play scum so badly is putting me off the idea. I would like to hear from PX himself before i place a vote.
he knows he will not be protected…no doc in the game…interesting.SPAG wrote:Oh yeah, i forgot to say good job on Oman I trust you will be protected.
(wait, don’t I remember you trying to convince the town that vollkan could be scum? How come you didn’t say back then that vollkan was the most pro-town player? Was that because at the time he was attacking you and you wanted to try to discredit him?)Elias_the_thief wrote:
Moving on, I expected Vollkan to get killed, being the most obvious protown player, and also since killing him off protrays me in a scummy light. In light of this, I'm going to remind everyone that discussion is our friend. Im going to reread.
It's odd how two people can read the same things and come to completely opposite conclusions. I'll need to refresh myself with a re-read to make sure my suspicions of Elias are well-grounded. I don't want to go after someone strongly unless I'm sure they're scum, because if I'm wrong I don't think anything will save me from getting lynched (and town can't really afford that many mis-lynches).Shanba wrote:I read the rest of Elias' posts, and nothing else jumped out at me. He's refuted the arguments against him, and the only reason I found him suspicious is a playstyle thing. This guy is probably town.
This is a somewhat unique opinion, considering I was close to getting lynched yesterday and am still considered to be one of the most suspicious players (I'd wager most people have me just behind Elias and SPAG/Yagami in lynch preferences). Obviously people found something scummy about my play... Setael, what have I said that has given you a strong town read? I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion, because you might have found something about me the others missed but also because it's just as likely your reasoning might be wrong.Setael wrote:I think it's very possible that SPAG ignored the suspicion on you and Elias because at least one of you are mafia. Personally, I don't think it's Hermit - I'm getting a very pro-Town read on him.
My #1 reason is the same reason everyone pulled their votes off you yesterday. Your exasperated attempt to quit/suicide felt Town. I could be wrong, but it didn't feel like a scum dramatization at all. If it was, bonus points for you. My other main reasoning is I think the 2 scum left are SPAG and Elias. I could be wrong about one of them or both, but I'm feeling strongly about both of them, which would make you Town.The Hermit wrote:Setael, what have I said that has given you a strong town read? I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion, because you might have found something about me the others missed but also because it's just as likely your reasoning might be wrong.
Looks like scum who knew exactly what he wanted to say, and is trying to make it look like scum are trying to frame him, but this point isn't the best because he could still be town, defending himself before it was brought up. Right now Elias does look minorly scummy to me, because a lot of it looks like speculation.Elias wrote:Moving on, I expected Vollkan to get killed, being the most obvious protown player, and also since killing him off protrays me in a scummy light. In light of this, I'm going to remind everyone that discussion is our friend. Im going to reread.
Elias wasn't assuming too much, you said he is town in your book until day 2. How it's worded, it does sound like you would be suspicious of him today had he not died. Despite these, right now he's neither town nor scum imo, still right in the center.curiouskarmadog wrote:you assume too much...all I said is he is not my target come Day 1TheHermit wrote:Oooooor the mafia could simply pick somebody else to kill tonight and laugh as we lynch the townie dayvig tomorrow. If they're really crafty, they'd worm some way into making his survival looks suspicious so that the dayvig would be forced to lash out at one of his attackers, possibly killing another townie. Hey! Sorta like what you're doing!curiouskarmadog wrote:I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.
FOS: curiouskarmadog
He's confirmed as the dayvig. He's not confirmed scum or town. Even the night won't change that... well, unless he turns up dead in the morning.
Can you please provide a reference for this?Yagami wrote:The first is where he asks Elias if we should kill vollkan, making it sound like Elias's suggestion.
I'm definitely still feeling warm and snuggly about my vote on SPAG/Yagami.Yagami wrote:Despite these, right now he's neither town nor scum imo, still right in the center.
This is where I meant Setael. Elias asks why CKD thinks vollkan is town, just pointing out that there is always the possibility, and CKD assumes that means kill him and find out. I interpretted it as saying we should still watch for scumtells from vollkan just in case, though that doesn't matter know since vollkan was NK'ed (refering to watching for scumtells). Also, I think it looks like I'm budding with him because I just don't agree with a lot of the reasons for the votes on Elias, and don't see anything to make him assuredly town.curiouskarmadog wrote:what are you suggesting? We lynch him day 1 and find out?Elias_the_thief wrote:Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.curiouskarmadog wrote: ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.
I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.