Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[vollkan]

You said you looked at his posts. What did you see.

The particular post I think he is referring to was a skeleton of the case to list in brief the major points that had been raised.

As such, you could hardly expect SPAG to come up with a massive reasoning for his post other than that he saw my points. There was a deadline looming and SPAG voted because Para did seem to have the most backing. Of course, this is a terrible reason in normal circumstances, but the circumstances weren't normal.

Gorckat. I can't help but notice how lacking in content you have been.
Let's have a look since your return:
#380: Welcome home
#436: Votes tornado for lurking. Say you will comment in a few days
#438: You express a desire to do more reading. Say you like Hermit because of "Lynch all Vanillas" (Note: has ANYBODY else ever heard of "LaV"? Does LaV actually even sound reasonable)
#442: FoS on CKD for "pushing Para" and "leading town"
#447: Vague attacks on CKD for leading. Given the amount of actual hard accusation in this game, I find it very odd that you focus on such trivial things. You don't think para is the lynch. Still want to keep vote on Tornado.
#451: You will unFoS CKD if para is scum (an odd thing to say).
#466: Votes CKD with nothing else.
#479: Asks why I think you will lurk through deadline. Justifies vote by reference to *drumroll* the PM thing.
#482: Again hesistant to lynch para.
#484: Thinks more attention should be paid to the PM (non-)issue
#487: Asks CKD's motivation...Were you expecting CKD to say "Oh, I was just trying to get my scum buddy to play again"?
#489: "Why not pulse?" -> Continuing to drag this thing out
#494: Unvotes CKD. Declares will hammer in 24 hours.
#501: Seeks SPAG's reasons for voting. Interestingly, Gorckat only quotes SPAG saying Para looks like the prime suspect whilst omitting SPAG referring to the suspicion expressed by other people. This makes it look like SPAG's reasoning was vague when, in fact, SPAG was acting in accordance with what had been suggested by numerous other people in the context of the deadline.
#506: Has decided to suspend promised hammer (surprise, surprise) because he is trying to question SPAG. (What did SPAG do?) Sets up another 24 hr hammer.
#508: Queries my VC stuff-up
#522: Again questions SPAG
#524: Again questions SPAG

Overall:
1) No real comment on anything that happened before return from vacation.
2) Incredily weak accusations against CKD
3) This bizarre inquisition on SPAG
4) Reluctant to lynch Para
5) "Lynch all Vanillas". I've never heard of this before, but any policy to lynch claimed vanillas is just ridiculous.

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

[curiouskarmadog]

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

I absolutely agree with you. I have been noticing this for about 3 pages now...(thus my comment about I would be surprised if Gorckat hammered)

Gorkat starts to push a weak case agianst me once it fails, seems to begin attacking SPAG (who then unvotes)...interesting...

SPAG if you think Para is scummy..vote him, dont let Gorckat push you around

[SPAG]

I think he is scummy, yes, but i am yet to read the thread properly. Since we have a fortnight (almost) until the deadline, I have plenty of time to have a read through and cast a thoughtful vote rather than a quick one on the first person i suspect.

[gorckat]

Bold is me.

You said you looked at his posts. What did you see.

The particular post I think he is referring to was a skeleton of the case to list in brief the major points that had been raised.

SPAG:and from what i have read on him (I looked through his posts) he is looking like the prime suspect at the moment.

He says he read something that affirmed this opinion. I asked to hear what.

As such, you could hardly expect SPAG to come up with a massive reasoning for his post other than that he saw my points. There was a deadline looming and SPAG voted because Para did seem to have the most backing. Of course, this is a terrible reason in normal circumstances, but the circumstances weren't normal.

If he had said right off "<Someone's> case is good enough for me under deadline" I would've let it slide.

Gorckat. I can't help but notice how lacking in content you have been.
Let's have a look since your return:
#380: Welcome home
#436: Votes tornado for lurking. Say you will comment in a few days
#438: You express a desire to do more reading. Say you like Hermit because of "Lynch all Vanillas" (Note: has ANYBODY else ever heard of "LaV"? Does LaV actually even sound reasonable)

LAV is the idea that if a person has behaved scummily enough to get that many votes, why should a vanilla claim save you? No power role is lost, so its the best worst case scenario (a vanilla gets lynched).

#442: FoS on CKD for "pushing Para" and "leading town"
#447: Vague attacks on CKD for leading. Given the amount of actual hard accusation in this game, I find it very odd that you focus on such trivial things. You don't think para is the lynch. Still want to keep vote on Tornado.

The vote on Tornado was for a specific purpose- to call out his lack of promised posting.

"I'm not convinced that xombie is the lynch for today. Certainly not the way you are. "

That's exactly what I said. I was probably in the 50% range there, where others, and ckd, were (seemingly) at around 100%.

Given the town seemed to be swinging towards xombie anyway, ckd's insistence and over-reaction seemed odd.

#451: You will unFoS CKD if para is scum (an odd thing to say).

Response to a direct question by ckd

#466: Votes CKD with nothing else.

As I said, I felt the PM thing was a slip. I can see where someone might read 'pm your friends' as 'masons and scum talk and get this thing moving'

#479: Asks why I think you will lurk through deadline. Justifies vote by reference to *drumroll* the PM thing.
#482: Again hesistant to lynch para.
#484: Thinks more attention should be paid to the PM (non-)issue
#487: Asks CKD's motivation...Were you expecting CKD to say "Oh, I was just trying to get my scum buddy to play again"?
#489: "Why not pulse?" -> Continuing to drag this thing out

I was trying to isolate why he PM'd SPAG and not pulse. The contents of his PM to SPAG could just as appropriately be directed at pulse. Because ABR is editing his comments into a lot of other posts, I had missed ckd's reasoning- that pulse was due to be replcaed, but SPAG was not.

#494: Unvotes CKD. Declares will hammer in 24 hours.
#501: Seeks SPAG's reasons for voting. Interestingly, Gorckat only quotes SPAG saying Para looks like the prime suspect whilst omitting SPAG referring to the suspicion expressed by other people. This makes it look like SPAG's reasoning was vague when, in fact, SPAG was acting in accordance with what had been suggested by numerous other people in the context of the deadline.

Like I said- I want to hear what he independently sees as the reason.

#506: Has decided to suspend promised hammer (surprise, surprise) because he is trying to question SPAG. (What did SPAG do?) Sets up another 24 hr hammer.

I considered hammering in spite of the extension, but that would not have been fair to Elias, who had said he was going to re-read. I considered posting that I was going to wait, but didn't want to let SPAG that he could not answer my question right away.

Then the extension happened and we got our replacement. I really didn't want to cut them out of any discussion.

#508: Queries my VC stuff-up
#522: Again questions SPAG
#524: Again questions SPAG

Overall:
1) No real comment on anything that happened before return from vacation.
2) Incredily weak accusations against CKD
3) This bizarre inquisition on SPAG
4) Reluctant to lynch Para
5) "Lynch all Vanillas". I've never heard of this before, but any policy to lynch claimed vanillas is just ridiculous.

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

Overall:

1) Fair- I read up and mostly continued in at the point things were.
2) So questioning little things that might lead to big things isn't a good thing?
3) Its not bizarre- if it were anyone besides the person I had thought PMd a scumbud, I wouldn't have thought much of it. But he says he had some thought of his own so I wanted to see it.
4) Reluctant in the sense that I wanted to be as certain as I could we were on the right path. Once ckd had alleviated my concrens over his PM (and no one else seemed interested) I was game for it.
5) Its not lynching him because he claimed vanilla, its because he got himself a numbner of votes and at worse is

just

a vanilla. I could have phrased the original post better to state that was not the only thing leaning me that way.

On the PM thing, I guess if ckd was scum, he'd have to be truly foolish to admit he made the PM publicly. In his place, I'd have PM'd the mod and said "Hey- I misunderstood what you meant and PM'd SPAG".

Stylistically, I do seem to be a 'question and get an answer before commiting' poster. I don't want to lead too much if I have an idea of how certain answers will shade my views, thus dragging certain things out for several posts (Why not pulse?) to try and elicit contradictions.

On preview, SPAG and ckd have posted...

@ckd: Part of my querry to SPAG is because I'm stuck with a possible link between you in my head. At the simplest level, nothing was implied when you prodded SPAG on your own and you did come clean right away, so my suspicions might not go anywhere.

[vollkan]

Mine 1

1) No real comment on anything that happened before return from vacation.
2) Incredily weak accusations against CKD
3) This bizarre inquisition on SPAG
4) Reluctant to lynch Para
5) "Lynch all Vanillas". I've never heard of this before, but any policy to lynch claimed vanillas is just ridiculous.

Reply 1

1) Fair- I read up and mostly continued in at the point things were.
2) So questioning little things that might lead to big things isn't a good thing?
3) Its not bizarre- if it were anyone besides the person I had thought PMd a scumbud, I wouldn't have thought much of it. But he says he had some thought of his own so I wanted to see it.
4) Reluctant in the sense that I wanted to be as certain as I could we were on the right path. Once ckd had alleviated my concrens over his PM (and no one else seemed interested) I was game for it.
5) Its not lynching him because he claimed vanilla, its because he got himself a numbner of votes and at worse is just a vanilla. I could have phrased the original post better to state that was not the only thing leaning me that way.

1) Well, you concede this is a fair point.
2) Questioning little things is fine, except when there are big things to discuss. Implicit in my criticism of your questioning of CKD and SPAG was the point that:
2a) There had been so much content thrown around in your absence and after that for you to go after someone for things as trivial as possible "leading" and a PM strikes me as you attempting to derail the Para wagon.
3) To clarify: I just assumed that what SPAG meant is that he followed me in the deadline situation (reasonable) and that he had read enough on his own to agree. You're within your rights to ask what SPAG read, but even if he was just a following scum, he only needs to restate what I and others have already said to answer this question. I mean, SPAG is hardly going to say: "Ouch Gorck, you got me. I didn't read anything on my own. I just wanted Para gone" so I don't know what the point is.
4) You "weren't game for it", you suspended as a result of your very trivial questioning of SPAG. Furthermore, don't play the "Cautious" card. Our good friend Oman did much the same thing and I didn't buy a word of it (luckily).
5) So there really is no such thing as LaV? All you are basically saying is that when someone is at L-1 and they confirm they are not a power role it is safe to hammer.

[Setael]

I finally finished reading the thread, and now my head is killing me. I found it laughable that vollkan criticized players for agreeing with his arguments instead of coming up with their own, when he was covering anything half-way evident so thoroughly time and time again that it seemed there was nothing for anyone else to do but agree (or disagree) or grasp at straws.

So… I think I will just say that I can see why Para is on the chopping block. He has done several things that have made him look scummy. Wanting to lynch inactives when there is a high likelihood they are Town, and being so hard core anti replacements doesn’t seem the best way to keep the town in the majority. Plus it really hurt my feelings. The one that stood out the most to me was in post 362 when he quoted CKD asking “who is definately town?” (sic) and then used this to build a case against him, without referencing it. When pressed as to why he pulled one sentence out of context he says:

I didn't know the context, I only read it in passing like I said.

Now, way back at the beginning you may remember that we were told by the mod:

Paradoxombie replaces ojpower as of now. This guy's pretty old school, too. He was in one of my first games on this site, so I ask you all to treat him with respect and distinction.

I can see a newbie player doing this maybe, but I find it hard to believe that an “old school” player didn’t at LEAST read the post directly before the one he pulled the quote from, to find out whether CKD was asking something of the person who just posted, or a general question of all of us. To boot, a few posts back he tried to explain away his miscount saying it happens all the time. Maybe. But to someone who deserves such respect and distinction… I have my doubts.

That being said, I’m not willing to vote and put him to L-1 right now because I don’t think SPAG and gorckat should be let off the hook so easily. Though it is possible that SPAG really does just want to re-read and cast a more thoughtful vote, and gorckat did just want to give me a chance to post, it is also possible that one of them is Para’s scum partner. I think I’d like to wait and see if either of them really will vote for him. If the deadline gets closer and they’re still stalling, I’ll vote for him so that we don’t lose the day lynch.

[vollkan]

[quot="Setael"]
I finally finished reading the thread, and now my head is killing me. I found it laughable that vollkan criticized players for agreeing with his arguments instead of coming up with their own, when he was covering anything half-way evident so thoroughly time and time again that it seemed there was nothing for anyone else to do but agree (or disagree) or grasp at straws.
[/quote]

I take that as a compliment....I think

That being said, I’m not willing to vote and put him to L-1 right now because I don’t think SPAG and gorckat should be let off the hook so easily. Though it is possible that SPAG really does just want to re-read and cast a more thoughtful vote, and gorckat did just want to give me a chance to post, it is also possible that one of them is Para’s scum partner. I think I’d like to wait and see if either of them really will vote for him. If the deadline gets closer and they’re still stalling, I’ll vote for him so that we don’t lose the day lynch.

Good strategy. Of course, Para is at L-2 now, so you vote will be necessary but not sufficient should Gorck and/or SPAG decide to abstain. Hermit has also said he will vote, though, so that solves that No Lynch problem.

[SPAG]

Bold is me.

You said you looked at his posts. What did you see.

The particular post I think he is referring to was a skeleton of the case to list in brief the major points that had been raised.

SPAG:and from what i have read on him (I looked through his posts) he is looking like the prime suspect at the moment.

He says he read something that affirmed this opinion. I asked to hear what.

As such, you could hardly expect SPAG to come up with a massive reasoning for his post other than that he saw my points. There was a deadline looming and SPAG voted because Para did seem to have the most backing. Of course, this is a terrible reason in normal circumstances, but the circumstances weren't normal.

If he had said right off "<Someone's> case is good enough for me under deadline" I would've let it slide.

Gorckat. I can't help but notice how lacking in content you have been.
Let's have a look since your return:
#380: Welcome home
#436: Votes tornado for lurking. Say you will comment in a few days
#438: You express a desire to do more reading. Say you like Hermit because of "Lynch all Vanillas" (Note: has ANYBODY else ever heard of "LaV"? Does LaV actually even sound reasonable)

LAV is the idea that if a person has behaved scummily enough to get that many votes, why should a vanilla claim save you? No power role is lost, so its the best worst case scenario (a vanilla gets lynched).

#442: FoS on CKD for "pushing Para" and "leading town"
#447: Vague attacks on CKD for leading. Given the amount of actual hard accusation in this game, I find it very odd that you focus on such trivial things. You don't think para is the lynch. Still want to keep vote on Tornado.

The vote on Tornado was for a specific purpose- to call out his lack of promised posting.

"I'm not convinced that xombie is the lynch for today. Certainly not the way you are. "

That's exactly what I said. I was probably in the 50% range there, where others, and ckd, were (seemingly) at around 100%.

Given the town seemed to be swinging towards xombie anyway, ckd's insistence and over-reaction seemed odd.

#451: You will unFoS CKD if para is scum (an odd thing to say).

Response to a direct question by ckd

#466: Votes CKD with nothing else.

As I said, I felt the PM thing was a slip. I can see where someone might read 'pm your friends' as 'masons and scum talk and get this thing moving'

#479: Asks why I think you will lurk through deadline. Justifies vote by reference to *drumroll* the PM thing.
#482: Again hesistant to lynch para.
#484: Thinks more attention should be paid to the PM (non-)issue
#487: Asks CKD's motivation...Were you expecting CKD to say "Oh, I was just trying to get my scum buddy to play again"?
#489: "Why not pulse?" -> Continuing to drag this thing out

I was trying to isolate why he PM'd SPAG and not pulse. The contents of his PM to SPAG could just as appropriately be directed at pulse. Because ABR is editing his comments into a lot of other posts, I had missed ckd's reasoning- that pulse was due to be replcaed, but SPAG was not.

#494: Unvotes CKD. Declares will hammer in 24 hours.
#501: Seeks SPAG's reasons for voting. Interestingly, Gorckat only quotes SPAG saying Para looks like the prime suspect whilst omitting SPAG referring to the suspicion expressed by other people. This makes it look like SPAG's reasoning was vague when, in fact, SPAG was acting in accordance with what had been suggested by numerous other people in the context of the deadline.

Like I said- I want to hear what he independently sees as the reason.

#506: Has decided to suspend promised hammer (surprise, surprise) because he is trying to question SPAG. (What did SPAG do?) Sets up another 24 hr hammer.

I considered hammering in spite of the extension, but that would not have been fair to Elias, who had said he was going to re-read. I considered posting that I was going to wait, but didn't want to let SPAG that he could not answer my question right away.

Then the extension happened and we got our replacement. I really didn't want to cut them out of any discussion.

#508: Queries my VC stuff-up
#522: Again questions SPAG
#524: Again questions SPAG

Overall:
1) No real comment on anything that happened before return from vacation.
2) Incredily weak accusations against CKD
3) This bizarre inquisition on SPAG
4) Reluctant to lynch Para
5) "Lynch all Vanillas". I've never heard of this before, but any policy to lynch claimed vanillas is just ridiculous.

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

Overall:

1) Fair- I read up and mostly continued in at the point things were.
2) So questioning little things that might lead to big things isn't a good thing?
3) Its not bizarre- if it were anyone besides the person I had thought PMd a scumbud, I wouldn't have thought much of it. But he says he had some thought of his own so I wanted to see it.
4) Reluctant in the sense that I wanted to be as certain as I could we were on the right path. Once ckd had alleviated my concrens over his PM (and no one else seemed interested) I was game for it.
5) Its not lynching him because he claimed vanilla, its because he got himself a numbner of votes and at worse is

just

a vanilla. I could have phrased the original post better to state that was not the only thing leaning me that way.

On the PM thing, I guess if ckd was scum, he'd have to be truly foolish to admit he made the PM publicly. In his place, I'd have PM'd the mod and said "Hey- I misunderstood what you meant and PM'd SPAG".

Stylistically, I do seem to be a 'question and get an answer before commiting' poster. I don't want to lead too much if I have an idea of how certain answers will shade my views, thus dragging certain things out for several posts (Why not pulse?) to try and elicit contradictions.

On preview, SPAG and ckd have posted...

@ckd: Part of my querry to SPAG is because I'm stuck with a possible link between you in my head. At the simplest level, nothing was implied when you prodded SPAG on your own and you did come clean right away, so my suspicions might not go anywhere.

Well vollkan highlighted the key points of para's scumminess and i went back through and read through para's posts to pick these up so that they were the actual posts and not just summarised, as vollkan had done.

[gorckat]

5) So there really is no such thing as LaV? All you are basically saying is that when someone is at L-1 and they confirm they are not a power role it is safe to hammer.

It was referenced in at least one of the games I'm in or recently completed. I also thought it came up in Mafia Discussion, but it's not the topic of anything on the first 8 pages, so it probably split off of something else.

If I find the exact page of a game it came up in, or a discussion of it, I'll link it for you.

strikes me as you attempting to derail the Para wagon.

Not at all, unless we got a better looking lynch. In order to swing 5 other people a week to deadline, I'd have to find a genuine slip and/or convincing tell that others had missed, which it seems I haven't.

So xombie should swing, hopefully giving us scum.

That being said, I’m not willing to vote and put him to L-1 right now because I don’t think SPAG and gorckat should be let off the hook so easily.

I know why my name would be there, but what has SPAG done? No one else has agreed, and volkan makes a good case for me jumping at shadows.

vote: xombie

I'd be hammering myself today, so if someone else comes along and does it, I'm fine with that.

[SPAG]

I finally finished reading the thread, and now my head is killing me. I found it laughable that vollkan criticized players for agreeing with his arguments instead of coming up with their own, when he was covering anything half-way evident so thoroughly time and time again that it seemed there was nothing for anyone else to do but agree (or disagree) or grasp at straws.

So… I think I will just say that I can see why Para is on the chopping block. He has done several things that have made him look scummy. Wanting to lynch inactives when there is a high likelihood they are Town, and being so hard core anti replacements doesn’t seem the best way to keep the town in the majority. Plus it really hurt my feelings. The one that stood out the most to me was in post 362 when he quoted CKD asking “who is definately town?” (sic) and then used this to build a case against him, without referencing it. When pressed as to why he pulled one sentence out of context he says:

I didn't know the context, I only read it in passing like I said.

Now, way back at the beginning you may remember that we were told by the mod:

Paradoxombie replaces ojpower as of now. This guy's pretty old school, too. He was in one of my first games on this site, so I ask you all to treat him with respect and distinction.

I can see a newbie player doing this maybe, but I find it hard to believe that an “old school” player didn’t at LEAST read the post directly before the one he pulled the quote from, to find out whether CKD was asking something of the person who just posted, or a general question of all of us. To boot, a few posts back he tried to explain away his miscount saying it happens all the time. Maybe. But to someone who deserves such respect and distinction… I have my doubts.

That being said, I’m not willing to vote and put him to L-1 right now because I don’t think SPAG and gorckat should be let off the hook so easily. Though it is possible that SPAG really does just want to re-read and cast a more thoughtful vote, and gorckat did just want to give me a chance to post, it is also possible that one of them is Para’s scum partner. I think I’d like to wait and see if either of them really will vote for him. If the deadline gets closer and they’re still stalling, I’ll vote for him so that we don’t lose the day lynch.

I was just unvoting so i could go back and read through. Seems like your trying to push me to vote here.

FOS:Setael

[curiouskarmadog]

Paradoxombie - 5 (volkan, ckd, Elias, Nelly, Gorckat)

by my count, Para is at -1..normally I would say proceed with caution, but I sure we got scum on this one.

[vollkan]

Paradoxombie - 5 (volkan, ckd, Elias, Nelly, Gorckat)

by my count, Para is at -1..normally I would say proceed with caution, but I sure we got scum on this one.

Don't throw caution away...if anyone feels a strong objection by all means say so. But, if not, I think a hammer is appropriate. I think this day has been exhausted and a lynch of Para will definitely generate much information and quite likely end another scum.

[SPAG]

Ok i've had a read through. Throughout the whole of this phase, OJ now Paradox have stuck out like a sore thumb. Some of paradox's comments and cases have been cringeworthy.

I've been thinking, he's an experienced player, surely if he was scum he would be a better player than this?

Though i can't see anything other than a Parodoxombie lynch. And a Paradox lynch will give us some information. If he turns out mafia, i agree it will make me look suspisious for unvoting him but also it will show something about Gorckat, who seemed to defend him a fair bit, but voted him to put him at -1, as if giving up the fight to protect a scum partner and make himself look town. However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.

I think, ahead of the information this could give us, it is probably a good lynch. But the fact that an experienced player could play scum so badly is putting me off the idea. I would like to hear from PX himself before i place a vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

we really have not heard that much from him lately. I do not think he has much of a defense...he posted yesterday this.

Okay seriously at least two other people have made mistakes in vote counts. I think it's been established that it's easy to miscount.

but that was just one item of many. I would like to hear what he has to say too..

[SPAG]

Its his lack of defence recently that baffles me. Anyone in their right mind would defend themselves for their cause, town or mafia.

[vollkan]

Though i can't see anything other than a Parodoxombie lynch. And a Paradox lynch will give us some information. If he turns out mafia, i agree it will make me look suspisious for unvoting him but also it will show something about Gorckat, who seemed to defend him a fair bit, but voted him to put him at -1, as if giving up the fight to protect a scum partner and make himself look town. However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.

Setael seems to think otherwise...but I don't think you will look particularly suspicious, at least not as much as Gorckat. Your hesitation was reasonable and I think I would have done much the same thing, though I realise still how it would end up looking.

As my PBPA on Gorckat has shown, however, Gorck has really been posting non-content and really looks like he is trying to disrail this thing. As in, Gorck has positively done things to distract whereas you have simply shown reasonable caution.

Its his lack of defence recently that baffles me. Anyone in their right mind would defend themselves for their cause, town or mafia.

Maybe Para has given up. I used my shot successfully to get rid of Oman and, with his own lynch looming, Para could think that it is lost for the scum.

[SPAG]

Oh yeah, i forgot to say good job on Oman I trust you will be protected.

Well, i think i'm going to go for it and place my vote on him.

Vote: Paradoxombie

I just hope we are right.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Final vote count

Paradoxombie - 6 (volkan, ckd, Elias, Nelly, SPAG, Gorckat)

TheHermit - 2 (Jordan, Paradoxombie)
Elias_the_thief - 1 (TheHermit)

After a long and antagonizing day, you all come to a decision around midnight. Paradoxombie must be the one to die. 6 of you jump him and beat him to death, letting his screams of pain roar through the night until his last breath. After the violent death, paranoia slips into all of your consciences, because you start to think that maybe Paradoxombie wasn't your man...regardless, you are all feeling very tired.

Elias advises to double the lookouts tonight, an idea that is immediately adopted. It is decided that the survivors will be grouped in two four-man teams. The two teams will rotate in the middle of the night for rooftop guard duty and a good night's sleep in the master bedroom. Volkan, the most paranoid of the survivors, will be armed with a baseball bat and sleeping alone in the safe room in the basement on a makeshift mattress. The room's metal door is locked and its thick walls cannot be breached. Setael, running on now 32 hours without sleep, has asked to be left alone in the secondary bedroom, which also has a small lock of its own. You have granted her permission. A perfect plan...right ?

Mafia, send in your night choice! Masons, you have 48 hours to talk tonight. Tell me when you're done talking!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Setael slept as a baby as soon as her head hit the pillow. She didn't hear Volkan and CKD arguing loudly in the basement before each men regained their respective rooms. She didn't hear Nelly's voice yelling at those "lazy bums" to wake up at 4 AM to take rooftop guard duty. None of that. What she did hear, though, was the massive explosion that shook the very foundations of the house at 7 AM. As she slowly opened her hollow eyes, she haggardly saw shadows running down the stairs behind her bedroom door. Then all of a sudden, everything became quiet...

It was hard to separate dream from reality for her..she thought she heard footsteps coming bac-

WHAM!!

TheHermit kicked her door open in a violent display of brute strength, breaking the small lock that she thought was keeping her safe while she slept. Setael immediately regained her senses.

"What th-"

"Hurry to the ground floor", TheHermit said before vanishing downstairs.

Moments later, everyone was reunited in front of the ruined bathroom. Nothing but a skeleton was left of Volkan in the entrance.

"The light bulb. It was filled with gasoline", declared JordanA24 as he was crouching in on the corpse, "and when Volkan turned on the switch, the bulb exploded in his face."

"Those damn rats knew that there were no bathrooms in the basement..." said Elias as he was losing his temper.

"...and that everyone upstairs would use the one on the second floor'', finished Gorckat.

A few meters away, Setael noticed something glistening on the ground. She leaned in, and picked up a key...

Volkan must have been the owner of this house...

Volkan, mason, has been NK'd night one!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Shanba replaces Sir Tornado.

[Setael]

At 8:39 am:

I would like to hear from PX himself before i place a vote.

Less than an hour later, WITHOUT waiting for Para to say anything, SPAG hammers.

Why didn't you wait to hear from him? There was plenty of time until deadline. Under the circumstances, any Townie would’ve waited to hear from Para. Let me guess… you’re going to say it was because I suspected you for removing your vote. Unfortunately for you, everyone here recognized that as perfectly reasonable suspicion. Vollkan agreed that it was a good strategy to wait to see what those who'd removed their votes would do, and you now know that he was a mason.

The ONLY thing that changed between your expression of desire to wait for Para and your hammer was that Vollkan said he thought you had shown a reasonable level of caution. As such, you hammered safe in the knowledge that Vollkan (a confirmed mason) believed you had shown reasonable caution to that point; coupled with Vollkan's apparent belief that the time was ripe for a lynch.

Let me stress this: You hammered despite declaring that you wouldn't when the only thing that had changed was that Vollkan had posted so as to potentially redeem you. This utterly reeks of someone who pre-empts that they are lynching a townie since it gives you an easy way out.

I think you knew Para would come up town because you’re mafia, so you removed your vote knowing he was going to die with or without your help. Then, when I pointed out that it looked fishy, you jumped on it saying I was pushing you into voting for him. That coupled with vollkan telling you it wouldn’t look suspicious, made you feel safe hammering Para, knowing that you could throw the blame on me when he came up Town. In fact, you said as much:

However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.

This sounds an awful lot like someone who knows Para is going to come up Town, and is setting up his arguments for the next day.

vote: SPAG

[vollkan]

Damn....go town!

[Nelly632]

Just to be clear, was Paradoxombie Town or Scum?

Thou shalt find thee answers pageth 1 -Mod

[Shanba]

Hrm.

I'm fairly certain Gorckat is pro-town, despite the flak that was thrown at him at the end of yesterday. I found myself agreeing wiht him again and again which is normally a good sign.

OTOH, I'm wary of elias. It seems like he's playing from a scum mindset, given the comments that he was trying to avoid suspicion. I realise he said that was just one of the reasons he voted TheHermit instead of Nelly, but that's irrelevant. It's a scummy mindset, and deservs more attention than being lost in the walls of words between him and vollkan.

Vote: Elias

[Elias_the_thief]

OTOH, I'm wary of elias. It seems like he's playing from a scum mindset, given the comments that he was trying to avoid suspicion. I realise he said that was just one of the reasons he voted TheHermit instead of Nelly, but that's irrelevant. It's a scummy mindset, and deservs more attention than being lost in the walls of words between him and vollkan.

Vote: Elias

I play in this mindset in all my games. Interesting that you would use this as a basis for a vote, with all the things that happened yesterday.

Moving on, I expected Vollkan to get killed, being the most obvious protown player, and also since killing him off protrays me in a scummy light. In light of this, I'm going to remind everyone that discussion is our friend. Im going to reread.