Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[SPAG]

I don't think the amount needed for a majority bears much significance, it could work for or against us.

As for OJ, has he even said anything since his strange vote? Would be nice to hear from him.

I think DFN was a tad overdramatic in his OJ theory. Opportunistic? we are yet to find out.

[curiouskarmadog]

we have also yet to hear from kerplunk.

Kerplunk will be prodded if he doesn't post within 24 hours. -Mod

[Elias_the_thief]

MOD- I think you should prod him now. I think perhaps he didnt notice the game has started, seeing as he's active as a mod in another game currently.

Request denied. Partly because you didn't bold your message and didn't understand my joke page 1, partly because I have a 72-hour policy. -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

we have also yet to hear from kerplunk.

Kerplunk will be prodded if he doesn't post within 24 hours. -Mod

hey it is nice to have a mod on top of things!!

[SPAG]

As we are possibly out of the random stage (ALREADY!) i'm going to retract my random vote.

unvote

Though i feel this OJ & DFN situation could die down soon as DFN is reflecting questions and OJ is not around.

[vollkan]

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

Screwing up is fine. I notice you are a very new player, so it is to be expected somewhat.

However, there are two questions I think you should answer.
The first has already been asked by gorckat:

Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions.

Is that so bad?

and of my own,
Do you think it is evasive to ask that the discussion be moved from you to "try to find some scum"?

[The Deepfried Ninja]

your right vollkan, this game is based on conversations and you guys hammering me for my now embarrassing post #30 is a good way to get the game moving. I have no problem with answering questions hopefully the whole process reveals more about the other players in the game.

I also understand that it looks evasive to ask that we "go find scum". My only defense is that i use a lot of colorful language that obviously has no place in this game, because it can misunderstood as

opportunistic

or

evasive

.

I have tried to answer your question if u want more just ask.

[Oman]

Sorry guys, went to visit my sister last night and was at work today. I missed a lot!

Firstly, I don't like the sound of this: Ninja's 30

Mainly because he is so addament in noting that his suspicion of OJ is "Hypothetical." This looks a little like "I'm trying to distance him, but I don't want to bus him yet". Of course, I could easily be Shadow Jumping here.

Vollkan and I have the same idea

The issue for me is not the wagon, it's the fact that Oj made his vote without any explanation. It clearly wasn't just random and yet he gave absolutely nothing with it.

My problem (as I stated) was that he just jumped on, with no comment. Often scum will stay silent when they vote so as not to say anything incriminating.

Doing a little metagaming on OJ.

In my opinion totally useless, not only in its uncertainty as a reliable tool, but also through the WIFOM (hate doing that) of "I'll play scummy in this game so they think I'm scum in that game". Though I do agree:

This seems like a huge leap of logic for a vote with no explanation.

As above.

I don't want to be irresponsibly throwing votes around so early in the game.

Yet you leave your vote on a random target at this point which is so much more responsible.

Sucks that random stage is over so quickly.

The random votes are a waste of time IMO, I usually try to get out of them ASAP.

Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

BZZZT! Worst defence EVER! Besides "Trust me, I'm town" this is the scummiest thing I've ever heard someone say this early. I'm sorry, but "unfolding" only occurs when questions are asked. Then this gem

I have no problem with answering questions

DUB TEE EFF?

Lets take another look.

Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold[...]

I have no problem with answering questions

Doesn't look like that to me.


I have three scenarios.
1) OJ is scum who attempts to distance Ninja by 3rd voting him. Ninja does an attempt at distance while keeping his posts on OJ being town, he, however, overreacts.

2) OJ is scum who attempts to start a wagon on townie Ninja who then over-reacts.

3) OJ is town who does a harmless bandwagon on scumNinja who then over-reacts due to "Scumanioa" (Scum induced paranoia).

QUESTION: Ninja, do you think Oj is more likely to be town or scum? I want an answer either way.

[vollkan]

The metagaming thing is usually useless, but oj HAS done this sort of vote before. It could well just be an element of his playstyle (which I would really advise he discontinue).

Anyway,

My problem (as I stated) was that he just jumped on, with no comment. Often scum will stay silent when they vote so as not to say anything incriminating.

You know, I have never seen scum do that. Frankly, it is far more incriminating to say nothing than to give an explanation.

I have three scenarios.
1) OJ is scum who attempts to distance Ninja by 3rd voting him. Ninja does an attempt at distance while keeping his posts on OJ being town, he, however, overreacts.

2) OJ is scum who attempts to start a wagon on townie Ninja who then over-reacts.

3) OJ is town who does a harmless bandwagon on scumNinja who then over-reacts due to "Scumanioa" (Scum induced paranoia).

QUESTION: Ninja, do you think Oj is more likely to be town or scum? I want an answer either way.

I don't like this bit. There is a fourth possibility which is:
4) OJ is town who does a harmless wagon on townNinja who then overreacts in newbish eagerness or just in generally bad pro-town play.

I don't think 4) is the most likely, but it is odd that you would omit it.

[Oman]

Sorry, there was a number four I meant to write but I didn't say. I was going out to a mate's 21st.

You know, I have never seen scum do that. Frankly, it is far more incriminating to say nothing than to give an explanation.

The idea that saying nothing is incriminating grew out of the original fact that scum used to slip up lots, thus they say nothing, which people picked up on and now use as a scumtell. Also, saying nothing is easier to explain away then some slip-ups.

The number four you stated is, I think, unlikely (though I do admit its possible, I think I excluded it cause I don't believe it to be the scenario atm) in relation to the other "four". I honestly think that one of them is scum at this point, its not conclusive, but its the scummiest I've seen two people act D1, the chances are good. If you include the number four I didn't think to say:

4(or five)) They are masons, and everything that seems to connect them (i.e. my number one) is mason-y.

No, I'm not asking for claims if I'm right (I've had experiences...), I'm merely pointing out that this setup is more devious then I thought. I thoughed we'd have it easier with the three masons but this setup is not as town-OPed as I though.

Everything that is a scumtell in relation to connections (bus, distance, etc) could be both a really scum tell, or a really pro-town tell (i.e. scum or mason). Thus making this not as good for the town as it first seemed. Though if we were to lynch a mason they'd probably claim it at -1, (and another would have to back them up? I don't have much experience with masons.)

Another speculation on the setup is that this day-vig could be used to our advantage. We could use them to "lynch" without ending the day...unless we were going to lynch the vig; or the vig was scum; or both.

[curiouskarmadog]

this is assuming the Day vig is not mafia

[The Deepfried Ninja]

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote. I am going to re-read the whole oj ninja fiasco, because WHAT IF (not attacking anyone) when the OJ train started his scum parters shifted the blame onto me to save him, which was admittedly pretty easy given my awful posts.

[curiouskarmadog]

jesus, did we just do a U turn?

[Elias_the_thief]

To me it seems that DFN does not do so great under pressure, but I'm not sure if the way he acted is indicative or scum or town. I'm thinking OJ is scum however. Again, I'm not doing anything til he explains himself, and/or kerplunk actually posts something.

[curiouskarmadog]

To me it seems that DFN does not do so great under pressure, but I'm not sure if the way he acted is indicative or scum or town. I'm thinking OJ is scum however. Again, I'm not doing anything til he explains himself, and/or kerplunk actually posts something.

and why do you think he is scum?

most likely I think he will be replaced

[vollkan]

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote. I am going to re-read the whole oj ninja fiasco, because WHAT IF (not attacking anyone) when the OJ train started his scum parters shifted the blame onto me to save him, which was admittedly pretty easy given my awful posts.

U-turn is a good way to put it.... DFN, I get that you are trying to do this all theoretically, but raising the mere possibility of something being a scum plot is pretty useless and is one of the very reasons that you've fallen under interest.

Let me give you an example of why these scenarios are futile,
WHAT IF (not attacking anyone) DFN is scum who tried to latch onto the easy target of OJ. People then respond against scumDFN, so scumDFN decides to hypothesise that their actions are due to a scum plot.

You can present one of these scenarios for absolutely anything if you try hard enough. You should be looking for evidence that people are scum, rather than relying on mere possibilities as your arguments.

This particular scenario, however, (yours, not mine) is interesting though because it is also hypocritical. You say that scumOJ's partners have shifted the blame onto you because you are an easy target, but isn't that pretty much exactly what you yourself tried to do to OJ?

To me it seems that DFN does not do so great under pressure, but I'm not sure if the way he acted is indicative or scum or town. I'm thinking OJ is scum however. Again, I'm not doing anything til he explains himself, and/or kerplunk actually posts something.

I'm going to keep the pressure on DFN a bit longer to help me make up my mind. Letting him slip through won't help.

As for OJ, I want him to answer this: What prompted you to change your vote?

I admit that I will be skeptical if you say it was random because you did not give any attempt at a comical explanation (though, admittedly, 99.9% of attempts at random joke humour fail miserably at being even remotely amusing).

[curiouskarmadog]

As for OJ, I want him to answer this: What prompted you to change your vote?

I admit that I will be skeptical if you say it was random because you did not give any attempt at a comical explanation (though, admittedly, 99.9% of attempts at random joke humour fail miserably at being even remotely amusing).

I do not think he actually changed his vote...his only post thus far was that unvote/vote...he never posted before that..unless I am missing it.

[vollkan]

I do not think he actually changed his vote...his only post thus far was that unvote/vote...he never posted before that..unless I am missing it.

You're right. I thought he changed because

why the vote shift oj?

[curiouskarmadog]

I do not think he actually changed his vote...his only post thus far was that unvote/vote...he never posted before that..unless I am missing it.

You're right. I thought he changed because

why the vote shift oj?

well when one types "unvote" you would think that he had a vote to unvote.

my read on oj is he is not reading any of his games and he is just voting....
I think he should be prodded if he does not post soon, and then replaced. he is only going to hurt to the town.

Prodding ojpower on monday if he doesn't post. -Mod

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah. I assumed he had voted previously because he unvoted. In response to your question curiouskarmadog, I guess I worded my statement a little strongly. I mean to say that he's probably my top suspect, based on his quick vote and no response.

[Oman]

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote.

Noted

I am going to re-read the whole oj ninja fiasco, because WHAT IF (not attacking anyone) when the OJ train started his scum parters shifted the blame onto me to save him, which was admittedly pretty easy given my awful posts.

"What ifs" are fine, but just remember a few things.

1) You can't use a hypothetical to prove someone scum (I.e. "You shifted attention to me off OJ, based on my hypothetical you're scum")

2) They're hypotheticals, sometimes they're just plain wrong.

of course, this leads to

3) You could be absoloutly right, and I'm going to take a look too to see if I can get any evidence.

Who wants to do a PBPA on OJ (:lol:)

[Oman]

4(or five)) They are masons, and everything that seems to connect them (i.e. my number one) is mason-y.

This is now almost completely impossible due to:

Yes i think OJ is scum, i want to hear from him before i do anything with my vote.

If they're masons, DFN is taking this distancing thing to a whole new level.

[Oman]

Okay, looking at the OJ/DFN fiasco. I have gone through looking for people attempting to shift focus to DFN instead of OJ:

DFN (deepfriedninja, i will address you as thus if you dont mind) What exactly is wrong witha bandwagon in your opinion?

The first post to focus on DFN instead of OJ, though Elias is completely correct, so this post looks fine.

As for your "incite the masses towards a lynch on THE FIRST PAGE THE GAME!!!" you seem to be trying to inflate the severity of what Oj did as much as possible, which is interesting in itself as a possible OMGUS.

The second post to look at DFN. Although the majority of his post was about OJ so its not looking particularly bad to me.

What's missing from the speculation and hyperbole (I'm gonna look that up after I use it) are oj's comments.

I agree his action was questionable. I also agree with volkan about the rather dramatic way DFN wants to rile us up.

This one sticks out to me as "protecting OJ". He gives a message firstly, about hearing from OJ. Then gives the middle-of-the-road answer "I agree it was

questionable

", then uses MUCH more dramatic language on "rather

dramatic

was DFN

wants

to

rile us up

".

This seems like a huge leap of logic for a vote with no explanation.

Guess my question here is this, if it has set off “huge alarms in your head” why only FoS him and keep your vote on a “random” target?

Again, looks at OJ first then DFN (as others have). I don't find this scummy posting because its rational to me.

Then Vollkan, Elias and everyone else (in chronological order) gets heavier on DFN.

If you re-read not ONE post looks like a scumbuddy trying to shift blame. More slip-ups from DFN causing it all.

Thus

Unvote Vote: DFN

I don't think thats anywhere close to lynch but

MOD

can we get a vote count please....no jokes this time.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote count

Deepfriedninja - 4 (nelly632, ojpower, volkan, Oman)

Oman - 1 (Deepfriedninja)
Sir Tornado - 1 (Elias_the_thief)

Not voting - 6 (Sir Tornado, SPAG, pulsewidth, TheHermit, gorckat, ckd)

With 12 alive, its 6 to lynch!

Sir Tornado replaces Kerplunk.

Sir Tornado was part of the original players of Friends and Enemies (viewtopic.php?t=5420&start=0). That's right, he's an OG. I expect you all to give him the respect he deserves.

[SPAG]

oj is a bit of a loser really, he doesn't even read any games he just votes. In another game he voted for me when i was at -1 and i had character claimed.

Anyway, he could be town, he could be scum, theres just no way to tell.

Ninja's big accusation and theory was only met with a FOS rather than a vote, which i find rather strange. He also doesn't seem to cope with pressure very well, but that is not neccessarily a scum-tell.