Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[gorckat]

That is, Oman said pulse should be vigged over Elias.

[Elias_the_thief]

Para, I mean that will get evidence later in the game, and I will use the previous suspicion in later cases.

What are you talking about? Suspicion != scumminess. You can't lynch me later because the player I replace was suspected, you have to show that hte suspicion was warranted. He had alot of suspicion, but show me how anything OJ did is scummy. That was my point. How can I inherit OJ's suspicion when he wasn't scummy?

Excuse me, what the hell are

you

talking about? If I was suspicious of your predecessor. Did I ever once say I wished to lynch you for just that? No. I said I would include this evidence in later cases.




Ok, now that that is out of the way,

1) excellent work with the vigging.
2) Why am I under so much suspicion? I have no idea where I went from being probably neutral in peoples eyes to being within the top 3 suspects.

[curiouskarmadog]

good job on the kill vollkan

[Nelly632]

Likewise Volkan you pulled out a good one... Note to Doctor... Protect Volkan in the night so we dont lose a townie...

[curiouskarmadog]

Likewise Volkan you pulled out a good one... Note to Doctor... Protect Volkan in the night so we dont lose a townie...

dont think we have a Doc

[Paradoxombie]

Para, I mean that will get evidence later in the game, and I will use the previous suspicion in later cases.

What are you talking about? Suspicion != scumminess. You can't lynch me later because the player I replace was suspected, you have to show that hte suspicion was warranted. He had alot of suspicion, but show me how anything OJ did is scummy. That was my point. How can I inherit OJ's suspicion when he wasn't scummy?

Excuse me, what the hell are

you

talking about? If I was suspicious of your predecessor. Did I ever once say I wished to lynch you for just that? No. I said I would include this evidence in later cases.

What evidence!!? Man, I keep trying to explain this clearly. From what I see OJ did NOTHING to indicate scuminess. This is my only point. I keep pointing it out, I realize you were suspicious of OJ, but it was later shown to be unwarranted. He didn't vote for scummy reasons, he did it randomly as he has done in all his games, and he didn't lurk, he just disapeared. I'm not trying to be defensive but you're not understanding me for some reason.

[Elias_the_thief]

Unwarranted? He jumped on a wagon for no apparent or stated reason. He random votes in all his games, yes, but he doesnt always random wagon, which is what makes him suspcious.

[Paradoxombie]

Well I've never seen OJ power play rationally. He random votes, he doesn't say anything, we don't know if he read, and he just disappeared. Based on this I don't see why you can single out his wagoning as the thing he probably did rationally(ie for the purposes of winning for his team)

[Elias_the_thief]

Can you give me examples of how he has played in this manner before? I doubt you two have had more than 2 games together, in which case I can hardly say that your metagaming is fair. Anyways, I retain that OJ was suspicious, and I retain that suspicion for you.

Now, could someone tell me how I'm one of the top suspects nowadays?

[curiouskarmadog]

Anyways, im suspisious of Hermit and Nelly. Both playing wierdly. For now, the vote is for nelly.

vote: Nelly

any reason you felt that nelly should have 3 votes and hermit none at this point?

[Paradoxombie]

Can you give me examples of how he has played in this manner before? I doubt you two have had more than 2 games together, in which case I can hardly say that your metagaming is fair. Anyways, I retain that OJ was suspicious, and I retain that suspicion for you.

Well here's the real question, once someone's rationality is compromised how can you ever again trust that something he did was for an actual reason? And in OJ's case he never even had any actual rationality to compromise in the first place. Just remember that.

[Elias_the_thief]

Actually, yes. I thought they were both suspicious. However, it's better to put pressure on one person then to divide it among two. If you do that, no one feels pressured, and my vote would accomplish nothing. Also, if Nelly came up as scum, and I had used my vote on hermit, it would have appeared that I was trying to distract from the wagon, and thus protect a scumbuddy. There are two pretty solid (IMO) reasons that I voted for Nelly as opposed to hermit.

[curiouskarmadog]

thoughts on everyone thus far.

i am highly suspicious of elias and para at this point. they both (along with oman) jumped on the nelly wagon very fast.

Vollkan is now a confirmed vig and will likely be nked. thank you for your help day 1, your contribution is appreciated.

Pulsewidth, spag, thehermit, and sir tornado have not really posted enough to warrant a judgement right now either way.

gorckat has not posted the whole game (i think) and as i thought dfn has disappeared

so..

Requesting a prod for gorckat and dfn, please.

Gorckat posted today. DFN will be prodded tomorrow. Don't bother asking me to prod someone if it hasn't been 72 hours without a post yet. -Mod

nelly:

Maybe it is because of the self vote, but I am thinking that nelly is just newbie town. A guess would be that he wanted to pull an “i told you I was town” type comment once lynched. Sort of guessing here though. Oman places his vote on him gives him some town creds anyway. Nelly, your thoughts on this?

[gorckat]

Is that the same ckd that posted the rest of the game? I've been here all along...at the top of this page even!

What makes you think the scum will kill volkan?

[curiouskarmadog]

Is that the same ckd that posted the rest of the game? I've been here all along...at the top of this page even!

What makes you think the scum will kill volkan?

jesus, I am sorry..you have posted...and a lot..I guess I thought you hadnt because we have not had any interaction yet in this game...ugh..sorry gorckat (and Mod)

not that I am a fan of answering a question with a question, but what makes you think that vollkan will not be NKed by the mafia?

[gorckat]

np- there's been a fair amount of dust swirling here and there

What makes you think asking me about asking you why you think volkan won't get NK'd will get an answer

On the level- I'd like you to answer my question first, and Nelly, too. Why is it neccessary to direct a Doctor to protect volkan?

[Elias_the_thief]

This is an open setup. There are 3x mafia, 3x masons that win with the town, and

1x day-vig that can be a

mafia

, mason or townie.

Vollkan is not cleared. It could easily be a gambit to make one of the scum appear confirmed in our eyes.


Anyways, I guess I'll have to defend myself, since everyone seems to think I'm scum.
Here's what I did: I saw a player not contributing, and being suspicious because of it. I put the third vote on them, so as to pressure them into voting. After more pressure was applied, (though it came from a mafiosos, and para) Nelly agreed to post content, and now has. I didnt read that til just now, since when I looked at the thread, we had two more than my last check, and it said something about a dayvig. and now I will take my vote off.

unvote: nelly

, and respond to nelly's suspicions about me.

Post 132 comes with a vote from Elias_the_thief and the strange thing in the post is that he finds both Hermit and myself scummy but votes for me instead… My thoughts are he is Scum and he sees us both as scummy but sees a possible quick lynch on me and that is appealing to him…

FOS Elias_the_thief

Um, no. I was suspicious of both of you. Hermit and you were both scummy, however, hermit was at least contributing to the game. by jumping on your wagon I add to the pressure on you and help force you to add content to the game. By jumping on Hermit, i would have done nothing. There would essentially be no pressure on him, and if you turned up scum and I had in the heat of your wagon voted for him instead, it would have appeared that I was simply distracting from your wagon purposefully. Anyhow, I've been around this site a year, and I'm 6-1 as scum. I think of myself as a better player then to just jump on random wagons and hope for a quicklynch.

At this point I take my vote off after being a little stupid and one thing that got me was this post by Elias_The_Thief…

um, yes? we would?

Para, I mean that will get evidence later in the game, and I will use the previous suspicion in later cases.

Whats with the question mark… Explination marks maybe but question mark are questionable LOL I made a funny… But no seriously what is up with this…

The question marks were there to show how incredulous I was that this was even a question that needed to be asked. I dont see what's so wierd about my choice of punctuation.

Elias_The_Thief Wrote:

What need is there to pull off?
1) If he's actually protown, he'll pull his own vote off when the town requests.
2) Would you expect any protown player to make the mistake and lynch him after your post about how the votecount was wrong and how quicklynches are bad? scum could do it, yes, but scum can't afford the 1 for 1 trade like the town can, so if scum hammered it would be a good thing.

By letting Nelly take off his vote and leaving mine we at least keep some semblance of pressure on him. Furthermore, at the time he put his vote on me, he had not promised any content.

First I don’t remember voting for you and if you are under the impression I did then doesn’t that make your vote scummy like the only reason you are voting for me is because I voted for you… Kind of like school yard junk… Secondly this entire post looks like someone trying to backtrack…

Throughout that post I was referring to you taking your vote off of yourself. Furthermore, how in the hell is this a backtrack? I stood by my conviction and defended the fact that my vote and my move to not unvote (and let you do it yourself) was the correct protown move in the situation. What I did was the complete opposite of a backtrack.

[gorckat]

Um, no. I was suspicious of both of you. Hermit and you were both scummy, however, hermit was at least contributing to the game. by jumping on your wagon I add to the pressure on you and help force you to add content to the game. By jumping on Hermit, i would have done nothing. There would essentially be no pressure on him, and if you turned up scum and I had in the heat of your wagon voted for him instead, it would have appeared that I was simply distracting from your wagon purposefully. Anyhow, I've been around this site a year, and I'm 6-1 as scum. I think of myself as a better player then to just jump on random wagons and hope for a quicklynch.

Your record as scum does not preclude you from being caught out here. Why are you playing to help the town by being afraid of a distancing accusation?

I get that the vote on Nelly leveraged more pressure, but you are the one who keeps bringing up distancing.

[curiouskarmadog]

np- there's been a fair amount of dust swirling here and there

What makes you think asking me about asking you why you think volkan won't get NK'd will get an answer

On the level- I'd like you to answer my question first, and Nelly, too. Why is it neccessary to direct a Doctor to protect volkan?

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

[curiouskarmadog]

This is an open setup. There are 3x mafia, 3x masons that win with the town, and

1x day-vig that can be a

mafia

, mason or townie.

Vollkan is not cleared. It could easily be a gambit to make one of the scum appear confirmed in our eyes.

Well, he will not be lynched Day 1 (because he did hit scum)…so we will see if he isn’t Nked. Also, now I have never been in a game with a vig, but couldn’t he have PMed his choice for a kill? Seems to me, if he was mafia, being quiet about the kill would have helped out the mafia more.

In my book, he is cleared until Day 2.

[Elias_the_thief]

Your record as scum does not preclude you from being caught out here.

I know very well that my scum record does not preclude me from being caught. I'm trying to say, I'm not stupid scum. Read my other games as scum, jumping on a wagon and hoping for a quicklynch (unless its LYLO already) is not my style.

Why are you playing to help the town by being afraid of a distancing accusation?

I actually havent brought up distancing once. You refer, I guess, to the possibility of Nelly being scum and my vote appearing to be a distraction. My question to you: Is it anti town to try to prevent yourself from committing scumtells? To me it seems that if a townie tries to keep himself from committing common scum tells, it will help the town by not confusing him as scum.

I get that the vote on Nelly leveraged more pressure, but you are the one who keeps bringing up distancing.

Didnt bring it up once. If you get that my vote was for pressure, why are you suspicious of me again? This "distancing"? I just showed how my move to avoid distraction tells (what I actually keep bringing up) is a protown play.

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, well seems to me that vollkan is a town aligned vig, thus the public demostration of his kill. It is in the mafia best interest to keep confirmed townies at a mininum...there is no point for the mafia to take one of us out, when there is a confirmed townie. the mafia wants to have the most unconfirmed townies voting as possible.

Why do you think he's town aligned? One mafioso dead in return for having one be confirmed in the eyes of the town? Seems like a sacrifice any mafia group would be willing to make.

what are you suggesting? We lynch him day 1 and find out?

I said he his town in my book until DAY 2...but if I had money, I would put it on vollkan being NK tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

Your record as scum does not preclude you from being caught out here.

I know very well that my scum record does not preclude me from being caught. I'm trying to say, I'm not stupid scum. Read my other games as scum, jumping on a wagon and hoping for a quicklynch (unless its LYLO already) is not my style.

dont think you are stupid scum, when you voted it wasnt really a wagon...you stated you wanted to pressure Nelly…and you did. Thus you still can be scum, but not be “stupid”.

The stupid scum is dead…and the other one has my vote on him.

[Elias_the_thief]

I dont think we should lynch, im just saying he shouldnt be cleared. I'm not necessarily talking to only you when I say that, but the whole town.

[Nelly632]

The setup for the game is 3X Mafia, 3X Mason, 1x day kill vig and the rest townie right? I just wasn't sure what the X after the number meant...