Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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@Blank I've played 3 games outside MS, and I was much much worse than in Newbie 1717. This is my second MS game and I'm really enjoying it so far. People here are unbelievably kinder and more polite than on the other forum lol. Seeing someone apologize if he felt that he was rude in a FM game really caught me off-guard.
@MissTerry Do you think what I did was scummy? Because if you do, you should be suspecting not only me, but also Creature, lucca, Loopdan and Draynth. (leaving Blank out because I don't consider his vote a RVS one, but a meaningful one)
Out of all these people, what made you pick me?
Or is it that you don't think I'm particularly scummy, but instead you just don't like people accusing others for no reason?-
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That's exactly the reason behind #24. I feel like Creature is trying to distance himself from Thor, while masking it behind the RVS vote for Blank.In post 33, lucca261 wrote:
Because of this: "I would vote the IC, but I am afraid that'll make him be inactive, so I'll refrain from voting the IC and vote this ScumFace.". No need for such a deep explanation for the second post of the game. If he wants to vote Thor, he needs to just vote him. It's a RVS.In post 15, Harkonnen97 wrote:Why Creature? Because he followed my vote on Blank, or for a different reason?
Also, #24 is very strange for this part of the game, but, anyway...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor665
I think that quote alot of time has passed, and Thor's lack of presence is starting to make me feel uncomfortable. This vote is to encourage him to do his IC stuff when he comes. (If you are busy because of RL - sorry)-
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Slightly suspecting Thor and Creature for scum buddies. Don't have any other scumreads yet.In post 57, lucca261 wrote:Hark, outside of Thor, who is the most scummy player for you now?-
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My bad, I mixed up the chronology.In post 133, Creature wrote:I unvoted Loopdan actually.
Draynth is a null read for me right now. He has only talked about your obsession with Thor so far. Not finding anything alignment-indicative in his posts. Also, I think he hasn't fully caught up yet?In post 135, Creature wrote:What do you think about Draynth?In post 99, Creature wrote:Not fan of Draynth's appearance, it looks like he hasn't paid attention to my reasonings and that makes his post look nitpicky.
Can you please tell what exactly made you change your opinion of him?In post 128, Creature wrote: Draynth is quite of a town read for now.
@lucca Do you think it's a good idea to vote for someone when you are pressuring him, or otherwise it wouldn't hold alot of value?-
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Harkonnen97
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I skimmed over it, and it seems like the inactive IC was lynched Day 1 and he flipped town. Sorry, but I don't understand why are you bringing this up?In post 152, Creature wrote:*cough*Newbie 1715*cough*-
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I don't see him saying "hey guise, i'm not mafia, townread me plz!!!!!!"In post 157, MissTerry wrote:
This is the post that bothers me, a direct claim of not mafia. I don't see the purpose of this kind of a post from town.In post 64, Loopdan wrote:
I'm easy to figure out. When I'm town, I get very involved and scum-hunt while somehow managing to look slightly scummy. When I'm scum... I don't know, because I've never been scum.In post 54, Harkonnen97 wrote:Loop and Creature, I don't really understand you ;-;
All I see is him sharing his own meta to us (which I respectfully throw out the window, because meta is stupid.)
Really don't understand why you and Penguin are scumreading #64.-
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Nvm, I think he's at L-3.
MissTerry, please respond to this:In post 107, Harkonnen97 wrote:MissTerry, if your vote on me is no longer random, could you please give your reasoning behind it?-
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My bad. I thought that you were talking about Loopdan's post here, not Creature.In post 173, Thor665 wrote:In post 144, Loopdan wrote:When Thor (or whoever fills his slot) finally shows up he needs to give his read on Creature. I will not move my vote until this happens.
Currently townish, but I'd like to see him field my questions to him.-
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FoSeveryone on the Loopdan wagon. (FoS stands for Finger of Suspicioun. It basically means http://goo.gl/mQgTka)
In post 184, MissTerry wrote:By saying that he's never played scum he is saying that he is not scum and therefore is town, not a wise claim to make in my opinion if you want to stay alive and help the town.
MissTerry have you ever been scum? Also, do you claim that you're town?In post 184, MissTerry wrote:After the beginning he stopped posting and is now mainly answering and asking questions. I mainly suspect him as scum because of his claim that he wasn't.
Because following your logic, if you claim that you're town and you never played scum before, you are basically claiming scum. Respond to this please.
Loopdan is a newbie. Sure, his 52 isn't the most pressuring post I've seen. So and what? You are treating him like an IC, and nitpicking at him for everything.
He is my biggest town read atm. Hisintentionto pressure me is town. It did NOT look like he was just doing it to make it seem like he is putting pressure. Why? Because he didn't make it obvious at all. Calling my post horrible implies that he outright rejects interacting with me, and basically calls me a newb. This DOES apply pressure, since it doesn't let me defend myself.
3 people are on Loopdan's wagon, so at least one of them is town. I believe that to be MissTerry. She is giving me way more newbtown vibes than newbscum.
Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )
Not liking Thor either. His has been blindly tunneling on Loopdan. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw him encouraging us newbies to post more, to give our scumreads etc. etc. As an IC, he should know better. (This isn't a jab at his competence as an IC. I believe that he is doing it because he's scum, and he isn't pushing the discussion in the right direction)
My feel for Thor right now is that he is defending himself very well, that he is applying alot of pressure on Loopdan, and that he gives alot of town vibes. But given that he is an IC, the ability to do these things is a given. I will resist the urge to trust my gut and townread him.
Initially, I did indeed suspect that it's you/Creature. I put my vote on you instead of Creature, because I wanted to reaction test him. This was my line of thought:@Hark - if I'm scum because my scumbuddy is distancing from me, why aren't you voting my scumbuddy? For me to be scum doesn't it require him to be scum? So, basically you're voting the less likely of the two of us to be scum...?
-Creature is very early and prematurely outright stating that you will be inactive
-You actually did end up inactive
From here, I concluded that this was either pre-planned, or you just told him that you won't be able to be very active, so he did all that tunneling for town cred, and when you return and do your IC magic you can remove all the suspicioun from you.
I put my vote on you because I wanted him to get scared that he might actually get his scum partner lynched Day 1.
But his voting, scumhunting and the general feel of his posts don't look like he really did care that much about your slot.
Town: Loopdan
Lean Town: Creature, MissTerry
Null: Draynth, lucca, BlankFace
Lean Scum: Penguin
Scum: Thor
If I missed any questions adressed at me, I apologize. Please repeat them.-
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Responses in orange
In post 215, Thor665 wrote:
Every case out there at the moment is a nitpick or a misrep.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Loopdan is a newbie. Sure, his 52 isn't the most pressuring post I've seen. So and what? You are treating him like an IC, and nitpicking at him for everything.
What prevents Loop from being the target of nitpicking but not, say, Penguin - who you are nitpicking at?
Loopdan is being scumread over 3 posts. I am scumreading Penguin over his entire play.
If pressure is town, isn't the Loop wagon pro-town?In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:He is my biggest town read atm. Hisintentionto pressure me is town.
I didn't mean that I believe pressure=town. That was a reply to the people who were claiming Loopdan's pressure post was fake.
This is an odd case, first off you're shooting it in its own foot - second, you're saying he finds something suspicious (the focus on the Creature/Thor conflict) and then pointing out that *he isn't focusing on anything!*.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )
Well...if he finds focus scummy...isn't this evidence that he is town, or at least being honest in his thoughts?
That's like saying someone finds the murder of Major Jackson scummy, and then pointing out that they're not murdering anyone.
That...makes sense, doesn't it?
Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?
I am not tunneling in any way at all, unless your definition of it is very strange.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Not liking Thor either. His has been blindly tunneling on Loopdan.
You are right, you're not really tunneling.
I know that isn't a job competence issue because it's not part of the job of an IC.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw him encouraging us newbies to post more, to give our scumreads etc. etc. As an IC, he should know better. (This isn't a jab at his competence as an IC. I believe that he is doing it because he's scum, and he isn't pushing the discussion in the right direction)
That is one of those magical presumed jobs, where people seem to expect me to be a cheerleader.
That is not my job.
Never has been.
Hopefully never will be.
I never said it was a job. Did you misread jab?
So, basically, I'm pointing out that I haven't done anything scummy while scumhunting.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:My feel for Thor right now is that he is defending himself very well, that he is applying alot of pressure on Loopdan, and that he gives alot of town vibes. But given that he is an IC, the ability to do these things is a given. I will resist the urge to trust my gut and townread him.
But I'm supah experienced!
Therefore I'm a top scumread.
This was a speculation, not a read.
Yes, and then you concluded he was more likely town.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Initially, I did indeed suspect that it's you/Creature. I put my vote on you instead of Creature, because I wanted to reaction test him. This was my line of thought:
Yet you kept voting me - who you had decided was scum because of Creature.
That doesn't seem to make any sense.
Initially I thought you were scum because of Creature. Now, I think you are scum without Creature.-
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In post 219, Thor665 wrote:
I don't see how that matters even if I did agree with it.In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:Loopdan is being scumread over 3 posts. I am scumreading Penguin over his entire play.
As my case has been described (and Loop agreed with my value call) it encapsulates his entire play.
But even if it was only about one post - that wouldn't inherently make it better or worse.
Yeah, but you indicated that the pressure came from a town place.In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:I didn't mean that I believe pressure=town. That was a reply to the people who were claiming Loopdan's pressure post was fake.
Why does the Loop pressure not come from a town place? i.e. why do you find the two types of pressure different?
If an empty vote on you is townish, why are cases offered on Loop scummy?
Because he was doing it to reaction test me. It was part of his RVS. People who are voting for Loop right now want to lynch him, not test him. It's very different. At least that's how I see it.
I would argue that is a bit of a misrep. First off, his strongest scumread is not Dan or Blank, but rather someone who has done more than either of them (or both combined) so it's a bit false to suggest that's a primary scumtell he is operating with.In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?
Secondly - Penguin has expressed his issues with the two of them differently, so it's unfair to suggest it's for a singular reason.
Thirdly - I would happily be willing to argue he has done more than either of those two slots, so even if you think lack of activity is scummy, it's quite fair for Penguin to suggest those two slots are underperforming because they basically are the least performing slots in the game. Now, maybe Penguin qualifies as third, I might give you that, but it doesn't suggest any hypocrisy on his part.
Am I missing something here?
I don't entirely agree. Blank and Draynth have been inactive, but that could be explained with non-game-related reasons (for example, just likeyourinactivity)
Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.
I know - what made you think I was blind tunneling? There is zero support for that statement.
Felt like an empty attack made to just try to make me look bad/justify me as a scum read voting Loop.
If it's not my job, then why are you complaining that I'm not doing it?
If you think it should be done - why aren't you doing it?
I don't understand your issue now.
I don't have an issue. Didn't mean to sound rude ;-;
My bad, I tend to think speculations about alignment are the same as reads (which, to my mind, are speculations about alignment).
So what is your read on me and Penguin? I thought you FoSed us, isn't that a clarification of a read?
Yep, I FoSed you, and I explained why I'm scumreading you both. That thing I wrote in my earlier post was just my thoughts about you. Like ... I don't know how to say it. Just wanted to make sure I was being understood.
So, if your speculation was not a read - why is your read on me scum?In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:Initially I thought you were scum because of Creature. Now, I think you are scum without Creature.
I believe you are scum because you're pushing for the lynch of someone who I believe is obvtown, and you're strongarming the rest of us into following you.-
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Because I don't find anything scummy in his posts and the wagon against him makes no sense.In post 220, PenguinPower wrote: @Hark: Why is LoopDan your strongest town read?
(about your inactivity - my apologies if I sounded rude Penguin)-
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In post 228, Thor665 wrote:
Wouldn't town have motivation to lynch people they thought were scum?In post 221, Harkonnen97 wrote:
Because he was doing it to reaction test me. It was part of his RVS. People who are voting for Loop right now want to lynch him, not test him. It's very different. At least that's how I see it.
That's the way town wins the game.
I don't see your point.
Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.[/color]In post 221, Harkonnen97 wrote:I don't entirely agree. Blank and Draynth have been inactive, but that could be explained with non-game-related reasons (for example, just likeyourinactivity)
Penguin has been in the game since Sunday evening and has posted multiple times on both Monday and Tuesday - how in the world do you call that lurking? He has posted at least once every game day since he started posting, and multiple times on all but the very first day. I would not even think to call that lurking - why do you call that lurking?
I call it lurking because he has shown that hedoescare about the game and he is reading, but recently he responded when his position was being threatened and claimed it was a coincidence, that he was going to make a contributing post anyway. It just doesn't look right to me.
Why no response to this?In post 221, Harkonnen97 wrote:I know - what made you think I was blind tunneling? There is zero support for that statement.
Felt like an empty attack made to just try to make me look bad/justify me as a scum read voting Loop.
Because I felt that the question has no value."what made you think I was blind tunneling?".
Answer: I don't know. That's how it looked to me. I was wrong.
If there is no issue with how I am ICing - why did you bring up the thought that I should be encouraging people more?
I don't have an issue because you aren't obliged to encourage people more, I just feel like you should be doing it.
Name one person I am strongarming - I'll wait.In post 221, Harkonnen97 wrote:I believe you are scum because you're pushing for the lynch of someone who I believe is obvtown, and you're strongarming the rest of us into following you.
I'm not sure if Penguin and MissTerry voted for Loop before or after you showed up. But you are using your IC magic and experience to point out every little detail in him that you find scummy. And yet, you refuse to look from the viewpoint of town!Loopdan.
Loop is not obv. town, three people are voting him which means 1-3 town think he looks scummy.
Loop agreed with me when I told him why I thought he looked like scum. Meaning he also doesn't think he looks obv. town.
Why should we think he looks obv. town?
I don't really understand you here. Are you asking me why I am townreading him? I've already said why.-
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In post 240, Thor665 wrote:You're saying the people voting Loop want to lynch him, not test him - I'm questioning why that would be an attitude unique to scum, as I believe town also vote people to lynch them, not to test them.
You are making this overly complicated. I'm not even sure what was the start of this topic. I think you said "If you think that Loop's pressure on you was town, why isn't our wagon on him town?" ?
Well, while you did give your reasoning, I don't like MissTerry's and Penguin's reasonings. They don't put pressure. So what's left for Loopdan is to defend himself only against you. And trying to have a verbal fight with you is a fucking endless torture. You just keep asking questions after questions. While some of them are good and I can see town motivation, some of them are also just basic and pointless things, like ... don't know how to say it.
How does it not look right? He posts semi-regular, it seems perfectly possible that your comment was closely timed with his arrival in thread.In post 234, Harkonnen97 wrote:
I call it lurking because he has shown that hedoescare about the game and he is reading, but recently he responded when his position was being threatened and claimed it was a coincidence, that he was going to make a contributing post anyway. It just doesn't look right to me.
Why do you think it isn't?
I see no evidence to support that conclusion. What am I missing?
If he hadn't been posting for 24 hours and then your comment had him answering it within five minutes, yeah, I'd see your point. But he posted throughout the day yesterday, and appears to be doing the same today, no?
No. I disagree. He is always focused on things that concern him. Actually, I realized that he just lied.
He claimed that his second readlist was going to be posted anyway, and it just so happened that I accused him 5 minutes earlier. This is not true.
In post 218, PenguinPower wrote:
Not sure why you are asserting I have zero content. I'm pretty sure that since I started in the game 2 days ago I provided my readlist and rationale, and prodded responses made by LoopDan. My read on him has not changed. My read on you may since you asserted that LoopDan is a storng townread for you simply because he is a newbie and his statements must have been townie because he is new. Almost circular logic there.In post 211, Harkonnen97 wrote:Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )
Sorry I'm not making any WoT. Not my playstyle. I suspect Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature debate AND not posting any other content. Again, you state that I'm not doing anything, but that's patently false. I've already said that we need to move on from Thor's activity level and start focusing on other things, but until Blank, Draynth, Luca start weighing in, I don't have a whole lot to analyze. That's almost 50% of the players.In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?
Spill what beans?In post 217, Harkonnen97 wrote:Penguin, spill the beans.
{}
{Lucca, Creature, Thor, MissTerry}
{Hark}
{BlankFace, Draynth}
{LoopDan}Take a look at this.In post 218, PenguinPower wrote:New readlist:His whole #218 post is defending himself against my accusations, and ends it with a NEW READLIST. In which he puts me from "Lean Town" to "Null", in retaliation to me scumreading him. Why would he put me at null anyway? Isn't he scumreading me? The only people he is scumreading in that post are the person who was the biggest wagon on him, and who has the IC verbally pounding him, and the 2 inactives.
The point is, he doesn't admit that his new readlist is in response to my accusation.
That sounds like the answer of a scum player who is making stuff up.In post 234, Harkonnen97 wrote:Because I felt that the question has no value."what made you think I was blind tunneling?".
Answer: I don't know. That's how it looked to me. I was wrong.
Do you honestly have no idea why you thought I was tunneling?
How many of your reads do you have no idea why you said them?
Should we trust anything you say in any way at all?
This is my 5th Forum Mafia game. I've never seen someone make such walls and ask so much questions like you did before. I thought that it was something serious. Now I just realize it's your playstyle.
I feel like everyone should constantly sheep me, sadly we don't always get what we want.In post 234, Harkonnen97 wrote:I don't have an issue because you aren't obliged to encourage people more, I just feel like you should be doing it.
Penguin voted after, I think Miss Terry voted before, unvoted, and then later re-voted.In post 234, Harkonnen97 wrote:I'm not sure if Penguin and MissTerry voted for Loop before or after you showed up. But you are using your IC magic and experience to point out every little detail in him that you find scummy. And yet, you refuse to look from the viewpoint of town!Loopdan.
I can't help it if other people decide to sheep me due to perceived experience - there is nothing I have said suggesting they should or shouldn't, and it is silly to hold me accountable for how other people choose to react to me.
I see no evidence to support your complaint about Loop - I *started* the game town reading him.
Then he started to act like scum.
I also appear to still be talking to him - so I'm giving him a chance to change my mind (or at least faking that I am, I suppose).
What else do you want?
As far as I can tell the complaint is that I'm not town reading him.
Yeah, I'm not. i was, now I'm not - that has no validity to show that I decided for an arbitrary reason to refuse to think of him as town. In fact, it tends to suggest the opposite.
You're calling him obv. town - obv. town is a lot stronger than saying you town read him.In post 234, Harkonnen97 wrote:
I don't really understand you here. Are you asking me why I am townreading him? I've already said why.
If you simply town read him because you think the wagon on him makes no sense (to which Loop himself would disagree with you on - so I think you're clearly wrong on this point) and your other reason is "nothing he has done is scummy!" to which I would also disagree. He has ducked questions, lazy scumhunted, and not actually done much to look pro-town, all of which is perfectly functional scum play.
Considering you appear to make up reads out of wholecloth, I am left kinda iffy on accepting a read so thinly explained that clearly is ignoring things in the thread.
So he's not obv. town, and your read on him appears pretty weak to my mind - so I see no reason why it should come as a surprise that people disagree with that read. It's not strange at all - he's a scummy slot.-
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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You didn't say that you replaced in in 223. You gave explanations about your posts. I dismissed them, because I thought that you were here from the start.In post 282, PenguinPower wrote:
You forgot even though I stated that in direct response to your post 221 in my post 223?In post 280, Harkonnen97 wrote:Also, reading through Blanks' reads made me realize that I forgot Penguin replaced in, even though I welcomed him. Iwasin fact going through his ISO when I claimed that he was inactive, and judged him because there wasn't that many posts.-
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Can you explain this please? You don't understand Blank's logic, but at the same time it makes sense to you?In post 281, PenguinPower wrote:BlankFace: moves to Leantown. I like his reads, and while I do not necessarily understand his logic behind lurking, at least he offers one that makes some sense to me.
Or did you mean that his reads make sense to you?-
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Harkonnen97 Mafia Scum
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Oh please.In post 221, Harkonnen97 wrote:Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.
If anyone else but Penguin thought that I was referring to Penguin's FIRST readlist in this quote, and not his SECOND, please speak up.-
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But if you don't understand his reasoning,whydo you believe that his intent is town-motivated?
Scum intent is perfectly valid behind lurking.
My reasoning for not believing that Blank's intent was scummy is because his reads make a lot of sense to me.
Do you believe that his intent is towny because you agree with his reads?-
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