Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]

[Harkonnen97]

I would love to hear more from Loopdan about this:

I'm lynching MT tomorrow. Someone else crumbed doc.

[Loopdan]

I would love to hear more from Loopdan about this:

I'm lynching MT tomorrow. Someone else crumbed doc.

That was WIFOM for scum to suck on overnight. I think it's more likely MT is town than scum and wanted scum to NK elsewhere. I have no idea if anybody crumbed doc, but figured saying that might save MT Night 1.

[Loopdan]

Well we have 2 possibilities. We are playing with a {Mafia Roleblocker, Cop and Doctor}, or {VT, Cop and Goon}. There are 2 possibilities: MissTerry is really a Doctor, or she is scum who claimed PR her hide, because if she claimed VT she would have gotten lynched 100%. The second option is extremely unlikely, because:
-If one of the scums is Mafia Roleblocker, and MissTerry is scum, it would mean that she took an incredible gambit by claiming Doc yesterday. She would either be hoping for the real Doctor to not be around near the deadline. or hope to at least get him to reveal himself before she gets lynched. I don't think that a scum in their first game would make such an aggresive play.
-The other option is that both scums are Mafia Goons, in which case scum!Missy got extremely lucky by claiming Doctor, because she guessed that we are playing either in the setup "Row 2" or "Column B". Again, extremely unlikely.

So, in conclusion, as long as nobody counterclaims her, I think that she is pretty much confirmed.

Yesterday, it was 2 am for me when I made my last post. The deadline was at 10 am, so I decided to go sleep for 5 hours, come back, and have 3 hours to watch over the game. But it was too late, Blank got hammered. I am a bit torn on that wagon. I can see scum motivation behind it, but I can also see town motivation. Lynching is much better than no-lynching.

I disagree that Scum!MT claiming doc would be an incredible gambit. Caught scum love forcing a counterclaim from a PR.

[serrapaladin]

Scum are in {peng, thor, shadow}.

Loops misdirection was a bit obvious, but town town town.

Shadow's "well that sucks" is pretty bad.

There's no way MT wasn't blocked last night.

[Thor665]

Vote: Loop

I think Penguin and Serra look like town.

[Thor665]

Shadow's "well that sucks" is pretty bad.

MT did, like, exactly the same thing, and you can practically confirm her as town at this point.
Learn to look beyond the surface.

[MissTerry]

@Shadow
Are you going to stop death tunneling me now?

[Thor665]

Yeah I'm not lynching outside Thor or Penguin today.

I'm leaning towards yes as his answer.

[MissTerry]

@Thor
Why do you have such a strong town read on penguin?

[Shadow_step]

Scum are in {peng, thor, shadow}.

Loops misdirection was a bit obvious, but town town town.

Shadow's "well that sucks" is pretty bad.

There's no way MT wasn't blocked last night.

It's not bad, over the last 7-8 games on another site, we either ended up lynching the cop day 1 or they get killed night 1. Which is why we started calling it the cop curse.

@MT, Hark, are you guys even reading what I am posting?
If MT really is the doc then the mafia can just block her, it doesn't matter who they protect.

[Thor665]

@Thor
Why do you have such a strong town read on penguin?

Because, unlike a lot of the game, I can track his reads, and he asks questions that make sense to me, and he seems to be on asemi-similar track to me in assessing the game without it feeling like buddying/sheeping.

If you really want we can start pulling up post by post type things and debating relative scumhunting in his posts, but it seems fairly obvious to me.
Also, I couldn't for the life of me describe the case on him at the moment. It feels like a semi-empty 'because!' really, which is usually the type of case done by lazy town and sheepy scum, so I'm certainly not being challenged in my read on him.

Why do you see him as scum? Are there any particular moments? Can you describe his scum plan in relation to his actions?
If all you've got is 'gut' then don't expect me to change.
If you can point to some theory scum moments I can easily describe my town vibe of those moments I suspect.

[Harkonnen97]

@MT, Hark, are you guys even reading what I am posting?
If MT really is the doc then the mafia can just block her, it doesn't matter who they protect.

I don't see what's wrong with giving a newbie an advice in a newbie game. Do you?

Pengo, what are your reads atm?

[Loopdan]

Scum are in {peng, thor, shadow}.

I agree.

Shadow's "well that sucks" is pretty bad.

Yeah, but MT's response was worse, so not sure what to do with that.

[Thor665]

Because we were in night when I was doing this;

Semi-V/LA till August 5th

What that means is with my work schedule I will probably still post at least once every 24 hours just fine, but I might occasionally have a period of 24+ hours with no posting and don't want the prod.

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, I think MT's is different since she's a PR.

In other news, I feel like a right idiot for derailing thor's wagon in the run-up to deadline. Blank was at that point obvtown, and I shouldn't have been worried about him being a PR. Broadly, the point I was trying to make without saying it throughout the day is that thor is potentially useful enough if town that he should be investigated. Ideally he would be night-killed, but that's rather unlikely at this point.

@thor: has loop's recent posting made any difference to your read?

[Thor665]

@thor: has loop's recent posting made any difference to your read?

The best thing he did was commenting on the Shadow/MT connection - but I'd already said it so it could have just been a scum parroting.
Haven't seen anything else alignment telling - do you see something I'm missing?

[PenguinPower]

So, in conclusion, as long as nobody counterclaims her, I think that she is pretty much confirmed.

I disagree. She was put up against the ropes, and she had to claim a PR not to be lynched. She knew that...heck, you even say it:

because if she claimed VT she would have gotten lynched 100%.

And, she is certainly not going to claim mafia. She had no choice

Now, I'm not saying that she is conf!scum, but she is far from conf!town.

Yeah I'm not lynching outside Thor or Penguin today.

Bad play to be tunneling this early.

Nooo, agh, we've lost a PR already.

This is scummy.

We are currently 7 people alive. The majority needed to lynch someone is 4. I'm not comfortable with Penguin being at L-1 yet.

I'm legitimately shocked...could I be wrong about you?

I'm feeling that there was one scum on the wagon and one scum off the wagon...though I guess there could be two off. Both shadow and MT helped drive the Blank wagon, but shadow never got on and MT hopped off right before the end. Contrary to that, shadow really tunneled MT, but that could just be bussing...feeling that's less likely. Hark stayed away from the Blank wagon, but actively defended MT.




Right now, I'd like to focus on the one off the wagon as there is a smaller pool (not by much) to draw from. I really do not like the way Hark acted at the end of day yesterday, but gut tells me right now that's just overzealous town. Between shadow and MT, I really get a bad vibe from MT...something just doesn't feel right about her posts at end of day (I'll just vote anyone!), the way she claimed, or her posts starting Day 2.

but now that we're sure we have a roleblocker because of Creature's flip,

No we don't. You may not be a doctor, and with an additional VT and a Goon in that setup, there is no way for someone to prove that wrong.

As it stands right now, my strongest suspicion is against MT. If I'm wrong, and there is a roleblocker, worst case scenario we lynch the last PR and...well MT said it best:

I really can't do anything with my night power :/

At least we confirm the setup. Of course, I think that puts us in Lylo, so that would not be good. Withholding vote at this point. Would like to hear some responses and commentary.

[MissTerry]

What I want to know is if Creature was a random shot or not. If not then why him?

Basically for a town victory all we have to work with is what we do during the day, and analyzing who gets killed at night. What's left of our night powers are useless now.

@Thor
Tbh, I don't have a strong scumcase against him in terms of like, reasons. I do think his posts are very deliberate, and cautious. When he posts it is very focused and direct, ask question to target, respond to someone else. Read list is going to be a readlist and only a readlist. It seems like he is trying very hard not to make mistakes in his play. I know this isn't really a strong argument and that might just be his play style, but it does set off flags for me. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

[Shadow_step]

Yeah no that is bullshit, I never scum read BF, I just said he would be in my scum pool if we lynched MT and they flipped town.
I never voted Blank, you trying to put shade on me by saying I helped drive the MT wagon is immensely scummy as I never did that.

@Penguin ^^

[PenguinPower]

Yeah no that is bullshit, I never scum read BF, I just said he would be in my scum pool if we lynched MT and they flipped town.
I never voted Blank, you trying to put shade on me by saying I helped drive the

MT wagon is immensely scummy as I never did that

.

@Penguin ^^

You put an Intent to Hammer on him, and he was your strongest scum read if MT flipped town, who you were tunneling intently....

I'm assuming you meant Blank with the bolded.

[PenguinPower]

You also referred to Blank as MT's scum buddy at one point...can't find that post.

[MissTerry]

I don't see why me and Shadow giving an, "oh no" is AI, I suppose scum could be saying it as a taunt and to look like they are sympathetic to the town but don't you think it's also equally likely a town just saying, "oh no"?

In post 1140, Harkonnen97 wrote:
So, in conclusion, as long as nobody counterclaims her, I think that she is pretty much confirmed.


I disagree. She was put up against the ropes, and she had to claim a PR not to be lynched. She knew that...heck, you even say it:

I don't see anyone counterclaiming, do you?

I'm legitimately shocked...could I be wrong about you?

Now that he is defending you you are reconsidering your read? And I am opposing you you are scumreading me. Hm.

As it stands right now, my strongest suspicion is against MT. If I'm wrong, and there is a roleblocker, worst case scenario we lynch the last PR and...well MT said it best:

In post 1145, MissTerry wrote:
I really can't do anything with my night power :/
At least we confirm the setup. Of course, I think that puts us in Lylo, so that would not be good. Withholding vote at this point. Would like to hear some responses and commentary.

I don't think a confirmed setup will do anything to help at that point. Whether the second scum is roleblocker or goon doesn't matter in LyLo, because it won't get to another night after that.

[PenguinPower]

I don't see anyone counterclaiming, do you?

In Setup Column B, there would be no one to provide a counterclaim. I made that point in my post.

[PenguinPower]

Now that he is defending you you are reconsidering your read? And I am opposing you you are scumreading me. Hm.

He shouldn't reconsider just because I made that post. It's poor play to base your read of someone on how they are reading you. You can't get emotional.

[PenguinPower]

I don't see why me and Shadow giving an, "oh no" is AI, I suppose scum could be saying it as a taunt and to look like they are sympathetic to the town but don't you think it's also equally likely a town just saying, "oh no"?

No. I think it's fluff that does not add anything of value towards us lynching scum, and it comes across as "Look at me! I care so much about town! I'm sooooooooooo sorry town was lynched! I definitely can't be scum!"