Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]

[BlankFace]

Blank, can you please share all of the reasons that you thought that it would be a good idea to lurk if you are town?

My reasoning was to see how Creature would respond to it. I was going to go a day or two just prodging. But then RL happened and it went on a little longer. Mainly it was to help me try to sort Creature and it worked a little bit. I'm kind of interested in why he didn't latch onto me as hard as he did Thor but at the same time he does seem to have a prejudice of IC's lurking. And I'm not an IC. Either way, that's pretty much the extent of it. I wanted to see Creature's reaction.

[Creature]

I started lurking to see his reaction. I wanted to see if he'd jump onto me like he jumped onto Thor.

Pfft

Okay, if you're town you deserve a Kodak moment.

[Creature]

He did, albeit a little later on than I really expected.

I don't think you got any conclusions for this reaction test.

[Harkonnen97]

I don't like Blank's reasoning for lurking. But leaning town.

[Creature]

I understand his reasoning, but I don't like the conclusion he got to.

[Harkonnen97]

Also, reading through Blanks' reads made me realize that I forgot Penguin replaced in, even though I welcomed him. I

was

in fact going through his ISO when I claimed that he was inactive, and judged him because there wasn't that many posts.

[PenguinPower]

His whole #218 post is defending himself against my accusations, and ends it with a NEW READLIST. In which he puts me from "Lean Town" to "Null", in retaliation to me scumreading him. Why would he put me at null anyway? Isn't he scumreading me? The only people he is scumreading in that post are the person who was the biggest wagon on him, and who has the IC verbally pounding him, and the 2 inactives.

It was in response to your defense of LoopDan, as I have already said.



New readlist
{}
{Creature, Thor, MissTerry, BlankFace}
{Lucca, Draynth}
{Hark}
{LoopDan}

BlankFace

: moves to Leantown. I like his reads, and while I do not necessarily understand his logic behind lurking, at least he offers one that makes some sense to me.

Draynth

: moves to Null. I can't tie his inactivity to scummyness as he has requested to replace out. Interested to see what whoever replaces his slot does.

Lucca

: moves to Null until I can hear more. I'm not liking the inactivity, but he may replace out...

Hark

: moves to Leanscum. As I have previously stated, his defensiveness of LoopDan after the initial distancing is suspect. His blatant misrepresentations of what I have said and done is extremely scummy in my mind. I probably should take him to scum, but...not yet.

I'm debating on moving my vote to Hark, but I still have a strong gut response that LoopDan is scum. If he flips scum, I'm definitely tunneling Hark next.

[PenguinPower]

Also, reading through Blanks' reads made me realize that I forgot Penguin replaced in, even though I welcomed him. I

was

in fact going through his ISO when I claimed that he was inactive, and judged him because there wasn't that many posts.

You forgot even though I stated that in direct response to your post 221 in my post 223?

[Creature]

Like, the whole case on me is "he's attacking lurkers"

From the actives (or near-actives), I am only having issues with Thor and Loopdan, so I am definitely going to search the lurkers/inactives.

[Harkonnen97]

Also, reading through Blanks' reads made me realize that I forgot Penguin replaced in, even though I welcomed him. I

was

in fact going through his ISO when I claimed that he was inactive, and judged him because there wasn't that many posts.

You forgot even though I stated that in direct response to your post 221 in my post 223?

You didn't say that you replaced in in 223. You gave explanations about your posts. I dismissed them, because I thought that you were here from the start.

[Harkonnen97]

also "blatant misrepresentation" is a bit of an exaggeration.

[BlankFace]

I understand his reasoning, but I don't like the conclusion he got to.

It wasn't as conclusive as I was hoping. You didn't jump onto to it like opportunistic scum, which is what I had you pegged for tbh. It gave you some town points in my book, I was just expecting something else.

[Harkonnen97]

BlankFace: moves to Leantown. I like his reads, and while I do not necessarily understand his logic behind lurking, at least he offers one that makes some sense to me.

Can you explain this please? You don't understand Blank's logic, but at the same time it makes sense to you?
Or did you mean that his reads make sense to you?

[PenguinPower]

Also, reading through Blanks' reads made me realize that I forgot Penguin replaced in, even though I welcomed him. I

was

in fact going through his ISO when I claimed that he was inactive, and judged him because there wasn't that many posts.

You forgot even though I stated that in direct response to your post 221 in my post 223?

You didn't say that you replaced in in 223. You gave explanations about your posts. I dismissed them, because I thought that you were here from the start.

I said "since I started two days ago" which would have been after the game start. Sorry for not being explicit.

also "blatant misrepresentation" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I don't think that it is. You intentionally stated that I was quiet and failed to provide a readlist until you called me out - that is false. I called you on that and then you state that you weren't talking about my readlist - convenient - but my second. I offer why that's not the case either - it being 12 hours between my last post and next post. You are trying to twist things so that I look inactive and scummy.

I call that a blatant misrepresentation.

p-edit

I don't understand the logic behind the play that he was making, but I understand that intent. Being new to this forum, I can't say that it is scummy or not; or, if it is a legit play or not; but, the intent I do understand and given the reads he provided I'm leaning town.

[Harkonnen97]

Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.

Oh please.

If anyone else but Penguin thought that I was referring to Penguin's FIRST readlist in this quote, and not his SECOND, please speak up.

[Harkonnen97]

Also, aren't "logic behind the play" and "intent" the exact same thing?

[PenguinPower]

Also, aren't "logic behind the play" and "intent" the exact same thing?

No. Let me expand upon that a bit for you...Logic is the methodology or a system of reasoning. Intent is the goal.

I do not understand how his system of reasoning was going to elicit information from Creature, but I understand that his intent behind lurking was to gain such information.

[Harkonnen97]

But if you don't understand his reasoning,

why

do you believe that his intent is town-motivated?

Scum intent is perfectly valid behind lurking.

My reasoning for not believing that Blank's intent was scummy is because his reads make a lot of sense to me.

Do you believe that his intent is towny because you agree with his reads?

[Loopdan]

BlankFace's re-entry into the game looks more likely town than scum.

UNVOTE:

I do want to clarify one thing...

<<clipped>>

I think my major issue with Loopdan is that there is a lack of independent hunting from the slot. The Hark pressure started with Creature, IIRC. The Creature/Thor scumteam theory came from Hark. Other than that, I haven't seen anything that could be considered his own line of though. I can understand following up on a townread's ideas but even then, you still have to have your own. The way he backs off of Thor. The way he follows PenquinPower. There's a trend of him sheeping.

Penguin is voting me. How am I sheeping?


@Lucca, where is your promised big catchup post?

[Loopdan]

<<snip!>>

BlankFace

: moves to Leantown. I like his reads, and while I do not necessarily understand his logic behind lurking, at least he offers one that makes some sense to me.

<<snip!>>

You like his reads? Explain this. His reads are not at all similar to your reads.

Spoiler: PP's readslist and BF's reads

New readlist
{}
{Creature, Thor, MissTerry, BlankFace}
{Lucca, Draynth}
{Hark}
{LoopDan}

I kinda buy into Blank simply because he has been logging onto the site.

I'm literally

always

logged into the site. I have a tab open and never turn off my computer. Plus, I have been lurking and skimming. Waiting, really.

ISOs:

Creature - Null/Scum. I started lurking to see his reaction. I wanted to see if he'd jump onto me like he jumped onto Thor. He did, albeit a little later on than I really expected. I disagree with 103, but we can save that for after the game. Just saying that there are town reasons to lurk. That said, most of his 'hunting' revolves around pushing anyone who is lurking. I also need to look into how the Draynth wagon built to gauge my feelings of Draynth going from strong town to scum in Creature's eyes. As far as I can see, Creature doesn't say why he went from reconsidering Draynth except for him going under the radar. All of this makes him difficult to sort out. Because his opening is either explosive/paranoid town or just a very strange attempt to look like he's hunting. With Thor actually not jumping into the game until pretty late, it's not easy to sort that out. But his hunting after that has been incredibly subpar. I would love to see him explain his readslist from 203.

Draynth - Eh. Entrance is strong. Falls off later on. I can understand RL getting in the way so I'll wait for the replacement to come in. Null

Hark - Don't like 24. I mean, in RVS it's kind of okay? Since the push out of RVS was Creature's push on Thor's inactivity, I kind of see where Hark is coming from but I don't see the evidence to support it. Following it up with 46 though makes it worse. Same issue I had with Creature, IF you have suspicions, why push the person who isn't posting? It's worse in Hark's case because he was pairing Creature with Thor. Why push someone you can't really pressure? A Creature vote would have given him MUCH more info, instead he went after the person who couldn't give him much of anything at the time. This isn't hunting, unless he was looking for Creature's reaction? And Creature's reaction was to vote Thor, 51. Does not look like bussing to me. I don't think that's the case though, because he continues to assert a Creature/Thor scumteam 60. So I'm kind of confused as to where Hark is coming from here. Hark does eventually drop the Creature/Thor theory in 108. I just don't like how he went after that. The way he tried to apply pressure is off. 211 is much better. That post is town as hell. And his interactions with Thor were decent as well. If I look past the timing of his response to Creature voting Thor, Hark is probably my top town at this point.

Loopdan - 52 is gross. If there's a lot wrong with 46 and Loopdan can't decide if it's scum or bad town play, why in the hell is he not putting pressure there? There's nothing to respond to with this post. Loopdan doesn't offer anything other than "I don't like this and can't make up my mind." Limits interactions, tries to make it look like he is hunting. He eventually follows up to say it was to help sort Hark out. I can sort of see it in 115 and on. Taking a theory from a town read and running with it is kind of okay in my book. He adds more pressure onto that line of thought again.

It seems like people were pushing Loopdan because of his Hark vote? Or for no apparent reason at all, looking at the quote tree in 181. Loop's reaction to Thor's [bullshit] explanation I like. 204 I don't like 204 though. There

was

a case, or at least a suspicion, that Thor was scum with Creature. Loop even pushes that in 115. So even if the vote goes away, that line of thought was still there.

I think my major issue with Loopdan is that there is a lack of independent hunting from the slot. The Hark pressure started with Creature, IIRC. The Creature/Thor scumteam theory came from Hark. Other than that, I haven't seen anything that could be considered his own line of though. I can understand following up on a townread's ideas but even then, you still have to have your own. The way he backs off of Thor. The way he follows PenquinPower. There's a trend of him sheeping.


BRB: Need to go get some smokes.

Lucca: Why does anyone have Lucca as a townread right now?

I don't like how all Blank posts are all about Thor/Creature, also, I have some other reasons to vote him, also.

Sums up almost all of his posts too. Excluding his first two RVS posts, the next four are Creature/Thor related. You could say five if you count that the question posed to Hark in 57. In addition to that he votes me for that and for "other reasons", and when Thor asked him what those reasons were, he never followed through. So I will ask again; what about me besides lurking/focusing on Creature makes me scum? Other than that, he hasn't really added anything. Looking forward to his catch-up post. Scum.

Miss Terry - Starts the Loopdan wagon, if I'm reading correctly, because of Loopdan's assertion of being town. Personally, that assertion to me is NAI. But more importantly, MT says that a Loopdan post is bugging them and then follows through with it. Actively hunting, showing their math, so to speak. Pretty town. Not much else to add. Nothing pings me.

PenguinPower - Offers the first real valid reasons I can see to scumread Loopdan based off of that self-meta post. Instead of focusing on the assertion and the meta, focuses on the way it was said. 220 is town as hell. Makes me rethink my position on Hark, but I'd have to go back and reread that exchange for myself with context. Actually, reading through Penguin's posts, Hark does seem to be throwing out misreps left and right. Which is super odd. My issue with Hark's push onto Penguin is that Penguin replaced in and then was pretty much on the ball. I'm not seeing a lack of content or focus from Penguin in any of these posts so I don't see where Hark is coming from. Either he is seeing the post count and going off of that? Or.... I don't know. I see nothing that Hark is saying in Penguin's play. Penguin replaces Hark as top town, Hark drops down townlean.

Thor:

Apologies for my lateness - I blame the mod for not giving me a game link and therefore it never going into my bookmark queue.

No offense, but poor excuse. It took a click to find this game. You got a PM saying the day had started. You not checking it is not the mods fault. It took me two clicks to find the game and bookmark it after I got my roll pm. You had two PMs before you had to be prodded but whatever. This is probably NAI.

I agree with Hark's sentiments about Thor's Loop vote and do not like his 176. If Loopdan was sliding, why not comment on it? It pretty much amounts to a naked vote and when prompted, he doesn't really offer why Loopdan started to slide.

If I explained why you are scum would you ever agree with me? Don't really see the point.

I changed my read on you from town to scum because though you opened kind of nicely with actual scumhunting but then shifted to saying a whole lot of nothing and also advancing nothing. At this point I feel like you're actively trying not to advance anything - just coasting.

Bullshit. First of all, the bolded. A LOT of this game is pushing and seeing where it goes. If you aren't pushing, you aren't hunting. Jumped onto the Loopdan wagon and then when called out for not giving reasoning, this is the worst thing that he could have said. There is ALWAYS a point to show your thought process as town unless your are gambiting or reaction testing. And since reaction testing is such an easy cop out and this does NOT look like reaction testing, I have to take it at face value. Second, I've already covered that Loop was saying a decent amount. If anyone was coasting, Dray and I should have been the first that Thor jumped on. Everything about this is off and the vote itself is opportunistic. Loopdan says something close to where I'm coming from; transparency helps town and Thor shuts it down by saying that he doesn't have to be transparent to Loop because he is scumreading Loop. The issue with that is that there are seven other players in this game who would LOVE to see where Thor is coming from here. Ignoring them, making yourself deliberately obtuse, and hiding behind your vote does not help down. Does not advance anything.

Then start the Creature back and forths and now I do have a reason to bitch about this:

There is nothing I said that implies I don't check my inbox - in fact I actively stated that I had, which would be the opposite of saying I don't.
Why did that confuse you?

It's confusing as fuck because if you check your inbox you'd know the game had started. And even if you didn't have a game link, it is not hard to find. It is pure laziness. So yeah, you were lurking. You

knew

the game was ongoing and chose to do nothing. Don't blame the mod for your laziness.

Reading through these walls, Thor just feels slimy. Scum.

VOTE: Thor

[Loopdan]

Do you see it? In the distance?

It's headed this way!

Is it a tsunami?

No...

It's Thor's incoming anti-BlankFace wall of irrefutable logic!

[PenguinPower]

<<snip!>>

BlankFace

: moves to Leantown. I like his reads, and while I do not necessarily understand his logic behind lurking, at least he offers one that makes some sense to me.

<<snip!>>

You like his reads? Explain this. His reads are not at all similar to your reads.

Spoiler: PP's readslist and BF's reads

New readlist
{}
{Creature, Thor, MissTerry, BlankFace}
{Lucca, Draynth}
{Hark}
{LoopDan}

I kinda buy into Blank simply because he has been logging onto the site.

I'm literally

always

logged into the site. I have a tab open and never turn off my computer. Plus, I have been lurking and skimming. Waiting, really.

ISOs:

Creature - Null/Scum. I started lurking to see his reaction. I wanted to see if he'd jump onto me like he jumped onto Thor. He did, albeit a little later on than I really expected. I disagree with 103, but we can save that for after the game. Just saying that there are town reasons to lurk. That said, most of his 'hunting' revolves around pushing anyone who is lurking. I also need to look into how the Draynth wagon built to gauge my feelings of Draynth going from strong town to scum in Creature's eyes. As far as I can see, Creature doesn't say why he went from reconsidering Draynth except for him going under the radar. All of this makes him difficult to sort out. Because his opening is either explosive/paranoid town or just a very strange attempt to look like he's hunting. With Thor actually not jumping into the game until pretty late, it's not easy to sort that out. But his hunting after that has been incredibly subpar. I would love to see him explain his readslist from 203.

Draynth - Eh. Entrance is strong. Falls off later on. I can understand RL getting in the way so I'll wait for the replacement to come in. Null

Hark - Don't like 24. I mean, in RVS it's kind of okay? Since the push out of RVS was Creature's push on Thor's inactivity, I kind of see where Hark is coming from but I don't see the evidence to support it. Following it up with 46 though makes it worse. Same issue I had with Creature, IF you have suspicions, why push the person who isn't posting? It's worse in Hark's case because he was pairing Creature with Thor. Why push someone you can't really pressure? A Creature vote would have given him MUCH more info, instead he went after the person who couldn't give him much of anything at the time. This isn't hunting, unless he was looking for Creature's reaction? And Creature's reaction was to vote Thor, 51. Does not look like bussing to me. I don't think that's the case though, because he continues to assert a Creature/Thor scumteam 60. So I'm kind of confused as to where Hark is coming from here. Hark does eventually drop the Creature/Thor theory in 108. I just don't like how he went after that. The way he tried to apply pressure is off. 211 is much better. That post is town as hell. And his interactions with Thor were decent as well. If I look past the timing of his response to Creature voting Thor, Hark is probably my top town at this point.

Loopdan - 52 is gross. If there's a lot wrong with 46 and Loopdan can't decide if it's scum or bad town play, why in the hell is he not putting pressure there? There's nothing to respond to with this post. Loopdan doesn't offer anything other than "I don't like this and can't make up my mind." Limits interactions, tries to make it look like he is hunting. He eventually follows up to say it was to help sort Hark out. I can sort of see it in 115 and on. Taking a theory from a town read and running with it is kind of okay in my book. He adds more pressure onto that line of thought again.

It seems like people were pushing Loopdan because of his Hark vote? Or for no apparent reason at all, looking at the quote tree in 181. Loop's reaction to Thor's [bullshit] explanation I like. 204 I don't like 204 though. There

was

a case, or at least a suspicion, that Thor was scum with Creature. Loop even pushes that in 115. So even if the vote goes away, that line of thought was still there.

I think my major issue with Loopdan is that there is a lack of independent hunting from the slot. The Hark pressure started with Creature, IIRC. The Creature/Thor scumteam theory came from Hark. Other than that, I haven't seen anything that could be considered his own line of though. I can understand following up on a townread's ideas but even then, you still have to have your own. The way he backs off of Thor. The way he follows PenquinPower. There's a trend of him sheeping.


BRB: Need to go get some smokes.

Lucca: Why does anyone have Lucca as a townread right now?

I don't like how all Blank posts are all about Thor/Creature, also, I have some other reasons to vote him, also.

Sums up almost all of his posts too. Excluding his first two RVS posts, the next four are Creature/Thor related. You could say five if you count that the question posed to Hark in 57. In addition to that he votes me for that and for "other reasons", and when Thor asked him what those reasons were, he never followed through. So I will ask again; what about me besides lurking/focusing on Creature makes me scum? Other than that, he hasn't really added anything. Looking forward to his catch-up post. Scum.

Miss Terry - Starts the Loopdan wagon, if I'm reading correctly, because of Loopdan's assertion of being town. Personally, that assertion to me is NAI. But more importantly, MT says that a Loopdan post is bugging them and then follows through with it. Actively hunting, showing their math, so to speak. Pretty town. Not much else to add. Nothing pings me.

PenguinPower - Offers the first real valid reasons I can see to scumread Loopdan based off of that self-meta post. Instead of focusing on the assertion and the meta, focuses on the way it was said. 220 is town as hell. Makes me rethink my position on Hark, but I'd have to go back and reread that exchange for myself with context. Actually, reading through Penguin's posts, Hark does seem to be throwing out misreps left and right. Which is super odd. My issue with Hark's push onto Penguin is that Penguin replaced in and then was pretty much on the ball. I'm not seeing a lack of content or focus from Penguin in any of these posts so I don't see where Hark is coming from. Either he is seeing the post count and going off of that? Or.... I don't know. I see nothing that Hark is saying in Penguin's play. Penguin replaces Hark as top town, Hark drops down townlean.

Thor:

Apologies for my lateness - I blame the mod for not giving me a game link and therefore it never going into my bookmark queue.

No offense, but poor excuse. It took a click to find this game. You got a PM saying the day had started. You not checking it is not the mods fault. It took me two clicks to find the game and bookmark it after I got my roll pm. You had two PMs before you had to be prodded but whatever. This is probably NAI.

I agree with Hark's sentiments about Thor's Loop vote and do not like his 176. If Loopdan was sliding, why not comment on it? It pretty much amounts to a naked vote and when prompted, he doesn't really offer why Loopdan started to slide.

If I explained why you are scum would you ever agree with me? Don't really see the point.

I changed my read on you from town to scum because though you opened kind of nicely with actual scumhunting but then shifted to saying a whole lot of nothing and also advancing nothing. At this point I feel like you're actively trying not to advance anything - just coasting.

Bullshit. First of all, the bolded. A LOT of this game is pushing and seeing where it goes. If you aren't pushing, you aren't hunting. Jumped onto the Loopdan wagon and then when called out for not giving reasoning, this is the worst thing that he could have said. There is ALWAYS a point to show your thought process as town unless your are gambiting or reaction testing. And since reaction testing is such an easy cop out and this does NOT look like reaction testing, I have to take it at face value. Second, I've already covered that Loop was saying a decent amount. If anyone was coasting, Dray and I should have been the first that Thor jumped on. Everything about this is off and the vote itself is opportunistic. Loopdan says something close to where I'm coming from; transparency helps town and Thor shuts it down by saying that he doesn't have to be transparent to Loop because he is scumreading Loop. The issue with that is that there are seven other players in this game who would LOVE to see where Thor is coming from here. Ignoring them, making yourself deliberately obtuse, and hiding behind your vote does not help down. Does not advance anything.

Then start the Creature back and forths and now I do have a reason to bitch about this:

There is nothing I said that implies I don't check my inbox - in fact I actively stated that I had, which would be the opposite of saying I don't.
Why did that confuse you?

It's confusing as fuck because if you check your inbox you'd know the game had started. And even if you didn't have a game link, it is not hard to find. It is pure laziness. So yeah, you were lurking. You

knew

the game was ongoing and chose to do nothing. Don't blame the mod for your laziness.

Reading through these walls, Thor just feels slimy. Scum.

VOTE: Thor

@LoopDan

Blank doesn't like you, re-reading Hark and agrees with my position, likes me, likes Miss Terry. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that all my reads are right, but Blank agrees enough on my important reads that I like what he says. I'll bring him around on Hark once you flip scum.

[Loopdan]

@PP-- BlankFace has expressed mixed thoughts on me. That's far from your scumread. He voted Thor, who is in your lean-town tier. He has Lucca as scum, and Hark as town.

You say you and BlankFace agree enough on your important reads, but you don't share a single scumread.

Penguin says scum is Loopdan-Hark.
BlankFace says scum is Thor-Lucca.

Yet you like his reads?

[Loopdan]

What you've left us with is the implication that BlankFace reading you and MissTerry as town is what is important to you.

[BlankFace]

@PP-- BlankFace has expressed mixed thoughts on me. That's far from your scumread. He voted Thor, who is in your lean-town tier. He has Lucca as scum,

and Hark as town.

You say you and BlankFace agree enough on your important reads, but you don't share a single scumread.

Penguin says scum is Loopdan-Hark.
BlankFace says scum is Thor/Lucca.

Yet you like his reads?

Hark fell a bit when I read Penguin, if that was not clear. Another thing to note is I'm not saying the scum team is Lucca/Thor. I don't look for associations before flips.