Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]

[Creature]

Greetings Penguin, join our game of accusations and manipulations. Is this your first time playing mafia, here or otherwise?

My vote for Hark still stands, it is no longer random.
I don't think Thor would remain inactive in this game on purpose for this long with all the votes and pressure mounting against him if he was scum. He must not see the game or maybe doesn't like his role and is purposely ignoring it.

Thanks...looking forward to participating in the madness. I've yet to complete a game on this site, but I have played many games on another...though they were much shorter in length (Days were 48 hours, Nights were 24 hours).

I know there isn't much to catch up on at this point, but I'm usually busy with my family on the weekends, so I won't have to time read through the thread until later tonight.

So...

[Harkonnen97]

Not posting anything as an IC in a Newbie game seems weird to me, both from a town and scum point of view.

[Creature]

*cough*Newbie 1715*cough*

[innocentvillager]

Thor665 has been prodded.

[Harkonnen97]

*cough*Newbie 1715*cough*

I skimmed over it, and it seems like the inactive IC was lynched Day 1 and he flipped town. Sorry, but I don't understand why are you bringing this up?

[MissTerry]

I am fine if he's scum or starts contributing, but not doing anything as Town?

At this point I don't think he has any choice but to stay inactive. If he becomes active at this point only when the pressure is up against him he will look scummier than he already does. If he is town or mafia there is no point of him coming now because he will be voted out for coming in so late in the game and unless he has a very good excuse (which is made weaker by him being active in another game) it will make him seem as if he was deliberately lurking because he either doesn't care (town role) or deliberately avoiding suspicion (scum)
I don't think he would stay out of the game this long if he was scum, especially with the votes against him. I think he would have come in sooner if he was when the pressure began to mount and now there is no choice for him but to remain inactive or get voted out.

I also don't agree with the reasoning that Creature and Thor are scum because Creature said Thor was lurking early on and he actually did lurk. My first reason is because we don't know that Thor is actually lurking or if he just decided that he did not want to play this game or has rl to deal with. The second reason is because if it was a deliberate plan I think they would have started their plan so early.

I'm reading town on most of the actives right now, except loopdan, one particular post really bothers me.

[PenguinPower]

Alright...read through the thread. Below are my initial reads, though there isn't a whole lot to go on:

{}
{Lucca, Creature, Hark}
{MissTerry, Thor}
{BlankFace, Draynth}
{LoopDan}

Spoiler:

BlankFace - Lean-scum. Not much contribution besides the focus on Thor's inactivity. Nothing of value posted.
Creature - Lean-town. Yes, an initial focus on Thor's inactivity out the gate, but has focused on others as well. Would like to know why his first serious vote was on Hark as it was placed without rationale.
Draynth - Lean-scum. Strong focus on Creature for tunneling, then hops off due to not realizing the game has been up since Thursday. Iffy on him.
Hark - Null. Is making active contributions. Don't necessarily agree that all are worthwhile, but I'm leaning town.
LoopDan - Scum. I don't like post #64. Trying to defend scummyness by stating that his town play comes across scummy. Don't like #70 and #84. States that he voted Hark to help pressure, but then unvotes and states he is unvoting because it look's like we're out of RVS.
lucca - Lean-town. Contributing reads that I mostly agree with for now.
MissTerry - Null. No substance to make a read off of yet.
Thor - Null. Literally nothing to go on. If he doesn't get booted, and based on his rationale for inactivity, I'll drop him to lean-scum or scum.

[MissTerry]

Loop and Creature, I don't really understand you ;-;

I'm easy to figure out. When I'm town, I get very involved and scum-hunt while somehow managing to look slightly scummy. When I'm scum... I don't know, because I've never been scum.

This is the post that bothers me, a direct claim of not mafia. I don't see the purpose of this kind of a post from town.

[PenguinPower]

I'm going to go ahead and make this official.

VOTE: LoopDan

[Creature]

MissTerry

Even if you're going to be lynched anyway, you should, as town, try to give your opinions and thoughts the most possible so we can get something next day.

[Harkonnen97]

Loop and Creature, I don't really understand you ;-;

I'm easy to figure out. When I'm town, I get very involved and scum-hunt while somehow managing to look slightly scummy. When I'm scum... I don't know, because I've never been scum.

This is the post that bothers me, a direct claim of not mafia. I don't see the purpose of this kind of a post from town.

I don't see him saying "hey guise, i'm not mafia, townread me plz!!!!!!"
All I see is him sharing his own meta to us (which I respectfully throw out the window, because meta is stupid.)

Really don't understand why you and Penguin are scumreading #64.

[Creature]

Self-meta is most of the times NAI (sometimes it indicates frustation) until you decide to meta him by yourself.

[Loopdan]

My meta is one game (1711). Feel free to go ISO me there and see. But yeah, I agree that meta isn't all that useful. If I was scum I would be making every attempt to play similarly to how I played in my last game.

[Loopdan]

Loop and Creature, I don't really understand you ;-;

I'm easy to figure out. When I'm town, I get very involved and scum-hunt while somehow managing to look slightly scummy. When I'm scum... I don't know, because I've never been scum.

This is the post that bothers me, a direct claim of not mafia. I don't see the purpose of this kind of a post from town.

It serves two purposes:

1) It offers Hark a way to better understand my play, which he seemed perplexed by.
2) It is a clear claim that I'm town, which scum have a harder time constructing convincingly. It's common for players to make such claims.

[Thor665]

Apologies for my lateness - I blame the mod for not giving me a game link and therefore it never going into my bookmark queue.

tl:dr - this entire commentary block is all about introducing myself as the IC, blathering about my duties, and offering a basic idea of some of the strategy of the RVS. If this interests you, please read on (especially if this is your first time playing here) if not, feel free to skip.

Spoiler: IC Intro

===========================================================================================

Greetings,

I am Thor665 and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) player of this group. What this means is first and foremost - I am here to play this game with you in a way that will show you what it is like to play on Mafiascum.net. I am here to win and should be treated as such.

My goals and the rules governing my actions are covered in this handy article: Being a good IC
That article is part of our amazing MafiaWiki System. I *highly* recommend this system as a good way to get your feet wet and to find out what a lot of the common abbreviations mean. There is a lot of play strategy discussed in there too. A lot of players consider that advice almost all outdated now. I don't recommend trying to run verbatim with anything there, but a lot of the basic advice is very good to at least be aware of as it can help you avoid blatant pitfalls as you become familiar with the game play here.

Now, as an IC I am here as a resource for you to ask questions of concerning game theory. I WILL NOT lie about game theory answers and will answer them to the best of my ability. I will also offer you the following quick pieces of advice;

1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

I'll catch up and have some thoughts in the next few...

[Creature]

Finally.

[Creature]

Did you check your inbox?

[Loopdan]

LoopDan - Scum. I don't like post #64. Trying to defend scummyness by stating that his town play comes across scummy. Don't like #70 and #84. States that he voted Hark to help pressure, but then unvotes and states he is unvoting because it look's like we're out of RVS.

Creature was pushing Hark. I joined in to see how Hark would respond, not because I found Hark to be scummy. Then I unvoted at the end of RVS.

That makes me scum?

[Harkonnen97]

Welcome :^)

[PenguinPower]

LoopDan - Scum. I don't like post #64. Trying to defend scummyness by stating that his town play comes across scummy. Don't like #70 and #84. States that he voted Hark to help pressure, but then unvotes and states he is unvoting because it look's like we're out of RVS.

Creature was pushing Hark. I joined in to see how Hark would respond, not because I found Hark to be scummy. Then I unvoted at the end of RVS.

That makes me scum?

Did you vote with a purpose or vote because it was RVS? You stated that we appeared to be out of RVS in #59 but then waited until #84 to unvote. You just don't seem to be telling it straight.

[Loopdan]

When Thor (or whoever fills his slot) finally shows up he needs to give his read on Creature. I will not move my vote until this happens.

[Loopdan]

LoopDan - Scum. I don't like post #64. Trying to defend scummyness by stating that his town play comes across scummy. Don't like #70 and #84. States that he voted Hark to help pressure, but then unvotes and states he is unvoting because it look's like we're out of RVS.

Creature was pushing Hark. I joined in to see how Hark would respond, not because I found Hark to be scummy. Then I unvoted at the end of RVS.

That makes me scum?

Did you vote with a purpose or vote because it was RVS? You stated that we appeared to be out of RVS in #59 but then waited until #84 to unvote. You just don't seem to be telling it straight.

OK, I see what you mean now. #59 was me pointing out a discrepancy in Creature's argument. I was still voting without reads at that point, so RVS wasn't over in my mind.

And to clarify, RVS voting doesn't mean you have no purpose for the vote. Typically in RVS, wagons form to see how players respond to pressure. So yes, there was a purpose for my Hark vote, even though it was RVS. RVS ends when your votes start being based on reads.

[BlankFace]

Alright...read through the thread. Below are my initial reads, though there isn't a whole lot to go on:

{}
{Lucca, Creature, Hark}
{MissTerry, Thor}
{BlankFace, Draynth}
{LoopDan}

Spoiler:

BlankFace - Lean-scum. Not much contribution besides the focus on Thor's inactivity. Nothing of value posted.
Creature - Lean-town. Yes, an initial focus on Thor's inactivity out the gate, but has focused on others as well. Would like to know why his first serious vote was on Hark as it was placed without rationale.
Draynth - Lean-scum. Strong focus on Creature for tunneling, then hops off due to not realizing the game has been up since Thursday. Iffy on him.
Hark - Null. Is making active contributions. Don't necessarily agree that all are worthwhile, but I'm leaning town.
LoopDan - Scum. I don't like post #64. Trying to defend scummyness by stating that his town play comes across scummy. Don't like #70 and #84. States that he voted Hark to help pressure, but then unvotes and states he is unvoting because it look's like we're out of RVS.
lucca - Lean-town. Contributing reads that I mostly agree with for now.
MissTerry - Null. No substance to make a read off of yet.
Thor - Null. Literally nothing to go on. If he doesn't get booted, and based on his rationale for inactivity, I'll drop him to lean-scum or scum.

My line of questioning was not focused on Thor, it involved him but that was not focus.

Rereading the thread.

[Thor665]

Early soft town on Loop and Creature.

Also, I have this gut feeling that Creature is trying to distance from his scumbuddy Thor.

Then you never saw me playing scum.

What is your usual scum/scum interaction habit?

Hi Thor

How's your lurking going?

I mildly apologize for that - I suspect now you will find my activity fine.

Loop and Creature, I don't really understand you ;-;

@Hark - if I'm scum because my scumbuddy is distancing from me, why aren't you voting my scumbuddy? For me to be scum doesn't it require him to be scum? So, basically you're voting the less likely of the two of us to be scum...?

@Loop - if I'm scum because my scumbuddy is bussing me over awareness of my impending lurk early, why aren't you voting my scumbuddy? For me to be scum doesn't it require him to be scum? So, basically you're voting the less likely of the two of us to be scum...?

I'm easy to figure out. When I'm town, I get very involved and scum-hunt while somehow managing to look slightly scummy. When I'm scum... I don't know, because I've never been scum.

Then how are you easy to figure out?

First he comes with 52 and then he says it was made to help me pressure Hark, but I don't see any pressure in saying "yeah this post is scummy", unless he wanted to do a reaction test, but that would look poorly made. Later on he unvotes Hark to exit his RVS vote (why did it take so long though?), but he said he wanted to help me pressure Hark, so I don't see why he would unvote.

I don't follow - he was voting Hark.

Kind of an odd white knight of me by Dryanth to protect me from Creature...well, mostly just sort of mentioning my name. It's not even like I was being attacked.

Wait, so the IC's that have been inactive in your games in the past were town, but you find Thor to be scummy for the same reason?

Yes, because I know he at least noticed and could post something in the thread. Also, I won't refrain lynching lurkers because I met town lurkers in the past.

How do you know I noticed?
Because...well...I didn't. I'm one o fthe most active posters on the entire site, and even a casual glance at my gaes would show this - so why do you think I would;
1. Be fully aware of the game.
2. Decide not to address it in any way at all.
3. Only do that as scum.

I don't like how all Blank posts are all about Thor/Creature, also, I have some other reasons to vote him, also.

Somewhat in his defense, it's literally the only conversation happening in the thread.
Why are your other reasons secret?

When Thor (or whoever fills his slot) finally shows up he needs to give his read on Creature. I will not move my vote until this happens.

Currently townish, but I'd like to see him field my questions to him.

I look forward to your answer too.

I wouldn't drop my suspicion on Thor's slot, he's posting elsewhere, why would he flake out like this?

Again - why would I do it as scum.
I mean, I can grasp that you're like "THor is posting elsewhere!" and that I'm not doing it at all here is kind of odd.
But, that said, have you any evidence that suggests I lurk as scum?
What about flake as scum?

I understand your read and your issue - but nothing seems to connect them.
Clarify?

I'm reading town on most of the actives right now, except loopdan, one particular post really bothers me.

Another miss-tery post? ::rimshot::
I seriously don't get this habit.
If it's worth mentioning as an issue isn't it worth, y'know, describing?

You cleared this up, and normally I'd delete it, but darnit - I took the obvious pun and I'm proud of it.

Did you check your inbox?

No, I used magic to sense the prod happening.

Vote: Loopdan

[Harkonnen97]

Why are you voting for Loopdan if you believe he is townish?

Also, that's quite a few votes on him already. I think he's at L-2?