Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]

[Creature]

From the ones who weren't on my list 189 list, I lean town on all, but I am re-considering Loopdan.

[Thor665]

I feel you're more active in games you're town.

That would be a very valid issue - what supporting evidence do you have for this belief?
Any other game start lurks as scum you found?
A game where I cited lurking as a strategy when scum?
A game people noted lack of activity from me and I was scum?

Or stay idle until the prod comes.

If you read my scum games you would know I don't even come close to this - so why are you acting like it was ever a thing?

So you don't check your inbox? How do you confirm your role?

There is nothing I said that implies I don't check my inbox - in fact I actively stated that I had, which would be the opposite of saying I don't.
Why did that confuse you?

But I still don't understand how you didn't notice this game.

Probably then you need to put this confusion into words and ask me a question about it, in order to get more info - I basically gave a blow by blow account, so it's not like there's giant holes in the reasoning that I'm aware of other than your vague belief that I should wander into sub-forum pages and note which game numbers have posts in them and cross-check them with games I'm in...which sounds like crazy talk.

I'm still of the mind you were scum pushing a loleasy wagon option.
You admitted your last lurk IC was town. Which means it isn't a universal tell you should buy.
You have no apparent evidence to call my lurk scummy over as a personal tell you should buy.
And you're now basically just kind of going "but...WHY!?!" which isn't even a discussion of how it was scummy, but more just vaguely suggesting that it's mysterious on some ineffable level, without an actual scum plan attached to it, which is the definition of how one pushes a scummy policy lynch.

Did you even try to put together an actual scum case here?
I don't see one.

I can now see one formed by me on you - what do you think about it?

[Creature]

I feel you're more active in games you're town.

That would be a very valid issue - what supporting evidence do you have for this belief?

Ongoing.

Any other game start lurks as scum you found?

Never saw your scum game.

A game where I cited lurking as a strategy when scum?

Didn't see it, but I don't think you would have the same strategy as town.

A game people noted lack of activity from me and I was scum?

No.

Or stay idle until the prod comes.

If you read my scum games you would know I don't even come close to this - so why are you acting like it was ever a thing?

Because I thought you would notice this topic and comment something on.

So you don't check your inbox? How do you confirm your role?

There is nothing I said that implies I don't check my inbox - in fact I actively stated that I had, which would be the opposite of saying I don't.
Why did that confuse you?

Because I see a PM like "Newbie 1725 day 1 started" as the title, so unless you don't have interest in checking your inbox, I don't know why you didn't notice it.

But I still don't understand how you didn't notice this game.

Probably then you need to put this confusion into words and ask me a question about it, in order to get more info - I basically gave a blow by blow account, so it's not like there's giant holes in the reasoning that I'm aware of other than your vague belief that I should wander into sub-forum pages and note which game numbers have posts in them and cross-check them with games I'm in...which sounds like crazy talk.

I don't know about you, but me and most of the players I know usually check the subforums, even if they don't check the games in.

I'm still of the mind you were scum pushing a loleasy wagon option.

Being a loleasy wagon doesn't make you town. If you notice, I wasn't pushing only you.

You admitted your last lurk IC was town. Which means it isn't a universal tell you should buy.

But I don't like them and that shouldn't make me stop pressuring them.

You have no apparent evidence to call my lurk scummy over as a personal tell you should buy.

I don't need evidences to see that lurking is usually scummy or unhelpful.

[/quote]And you're now basically just kind of going "but...WHY!?!" which isn't even a discussion of how it was scummy, but more just vaguely suggesting that it's mysterious on some ineffable level, without an actual scum plan attached to it, which is the definition of how one pushes a scummy policy lynch.[/quote]
Am I trying to push your lynch?

My intention was to pressure you to say something, yet you didn't do anything, so I went looking at others and let you do something.

Did you even try to put together an actual scum case here?
I don't see one.

Lurking not being a valid tell for you doesn't make it an invalid case. In my opinion, lurking is pro-scum and I don't mind pushing lurkers. If you don't think lurking is scummy, not everyone has the same opinion as you.

I can now see one formed by me on you - what do you think about it?

I think you're not considering why I would push you other than trying to push an easy wagon.

[Creature]

Town: Harkonnen97, lucca261, MissTerry
Town but not so much: Thor665
Absolute null: PenguinPower
Reconsidering: Draynth, Loopdan
Scumreads: BlankFace

[Loopdan]

Creature actually asked me earlier about who I thought was scummier. I said my vote was on you, but gave no reason. It was because you weren't here. And I disagree that Creature must be scum for you to be scum.

Can you explain your scum case on me that doesn't require Creature to be scum?

Uh, I don't have a case against you. I'm not voting you. My point is simply that it is possible for you to be scum without Creature being your buddy.

I guess everybody thinks they should be easy to read as town. In my other game I was pushed pretty hard most of Day 1 (I was put at L-1 twice), but survived and made it the rest of the game as universally town-read by all but scum.

Okay...but so far your offered thoughts on this are that you have no idea how you'd look as scum, and also that, as scum,

you'd look just like you do as town.

Which would make you hard to read, or unknown difficulty to read, right?
So why say that you would be easy?

emphasis added.

No, I said I'd try to play like my last (town) game if I were scum. And there was a natural progression to that topic of conversation that your summary is misconstruing and attempting to make look scummy. I don't believe you are scum-reading me for this.

Thor, I think you are just testing the wagon, because you are grasping at weak arguments for scum!Loopdan. I get it-- Pressuring the wagon is good for town. But please have the sense to get off before there is an L-1 vote.

[Loopdan]

By saying that he's never played scum he is saying that he is not scum and therefore is town, not a wise claim to make in my opinion if you want to stay alive and help the town.

This. Makes. No. Sense.

[Loopdan]

Would like Loop to answer the case on him.

What case?

I'm being scumread for saying I am town and for talking about self-meta.

[Loopdan]

His vote was RVS and he didn't seem to have intent to pressure Hark when he cast his vote. 52 can't be considered pressure post.

So you don't think naked votes can cause pressure?
I do.
Why don't you?

He pointed his vote was RVS when Hark questioned why he was voting him. Then he said it was actually pressure when I questioned post 52.

I've already explained this...

And to clarify, RVS voting doesn't mean you have no purpose for the vote. Typically in RVS, wagons form to see how players respond to pressure. So yes, there was a purpose for my Hark vote, even though it was RVS. RVS ends when your votes start being based on reads.

RVS doesn't mean you have to roll a die.

[Loopdan]

Creature v. Thor is going nowhere. I tend to think Thor's inactivity is more likely a town indicator than scum. What does he gain other than undue attention by avoiding the game? Also, it would be against the spirit of the IC role to do this intentionally.


I'd like to hear more from BlankFace and Draynth.

[innocentvillager]

	VOTECOUNT 1.2
Player	Being voted by (in chronological order)	Number of Votes
1. PenguinPower
2. MissTerry
3. lucca261
4. Harkonnen97
5. Loopdan	PenguinPower, Thor665, MissTerry	3 (L-2)
6. Creature	BlankFace	1
7. BlankFace	lucca261, Creature	2
8. Draynth
9. Thor665	Harkonnen97	1

Not voting: Loopdan, Draynth

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-07-23 01:09:00)

With 9 eligible to vote, it's 5 to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.

[innocentvillager]

Mod

Can you prod yourself?

Were you requesting the votecount? Sorry I didn't put it up sooner if that's what you're implying.

[Harkonnen97]

FoS

everyone on the Loopdan wagon. (FoS stands for Finger of Suspicioun. It basically means http://goo.gl/mQgTka)

By saying that he's never played scum he is saying that he is not scum and therefore is town, not a wise claim to make in my opinion if you want to stay alive and help the town.

After the beginning he stopped posting and is now mainly answering and asking questions. I mainly suspect him as scum because of his claim that he wasn't.

MissTerry have you ever been scum? Also, do you claim that you're town?

Because following your logic, if you claim that you're town and you never played scum before, you are basically claiming scum. Respond to this please.

Loopdan is a newbie

. Sure, his 52 isn't the most pressuring post I've seen. So and what? You are treating him like an IC, and nitpicking at him for everything.

He is my biggest town read atm. His

intention

to pressure me is town. It did NOT look like he was just doing it to make it seem like he is putting pressure. Why? Because he didn't make it obvious at all. Calling my post horrible implies that he outright rejects interacting with me, and basically calls me a newb. This DOES apply pressure, since it doesn't let me defend myself.

3 people are on Loopdan's wagon, so at least one of them is town. I believe that to be MissTerry. She is giving me way more newbtown vibes than newbscum.

Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )

Not liking Thor either. His has been blindly tunneling on Loopdan. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw him encouraging us newbies to post more, to give our scumreads etc. etc. As an IC, he should know better. (This isn't a jab at his competence as an IC. I believe that he is doing it because he's scum, and he isn't pushing the discussion in the right direction)

My feel for Thor right now is that he is defending himself very well, that he is applying alot of pressure on Loopdan, and that he gives alot of town vibes. But given that he is an IC, the ability to do these things is a given. I will resist the urge to trust my gut and townread him.

@Hark - if I'm scum because my scumbuddy is distancing from me, why aren't you voting my scumbuddy? For me to be scum doesn't it require him to be scum? So, basically you're voting the less likely of the two of us to be scum...?

Initially, I did indeed suspect that it's you/Creature. I put my vote on you instead of Creature, because I wanted to reaction test him. This was my line of thought:
-Creature is very early and prematurely outright stating that you will be inactive
-You actually did end up inactive
From here, I concluded that this was either pre-planned, or you just told him that you won't be able to be very active, so he did all that tunneling for town cred, and when you return and do your IC magic you can remove all the suspicioun from you.
I put my vote on you because I wanted him to get scared that he might actually get his scum partner lynched Day 1.
But his voting, scumhunting and the general feel of his posts don't look like he really did care that much about your slot.

Town: Loopdan
Lean Town: Creature, MissTerry
Null: Draynth, lucca, BlankFace
Lean Scum: Penguin
Scum: Thor

If I missed any questions adressed at me, I apologize. Please repeat them.

[Harkonnen97]

Draynth's and Blank's inputs will be very helpful right now.

[Harkonnen97]

Also I messed up the link to the post. Hopefully it works this time

52

[lucca261]

Too tired to post right now. Tomorrow by the morning I should do a big catchup.

Just by looking at it, Thor activity doesn't seems to be a problem, right ?

[Thor665]

I feel you're more active in games you're town.

That would be a very valid issue - what supporting evidence do you have for this belief?

Ongoing.

Any other game start lurks as scum you found?

Never saw your scum game.

A game where I cited lurking as a strategy when scum?

Didn't see it, but I don't think you would have the same strategy as town.

A game people noted lack of activity from me and I was scum?

No.

Or stay idle until the prod comes.

If you read my scum games you would know I don't even come close to this - so why are you acting like it was ever a thing?

Because I thought you would notice this topic and comment something on.
Yeah, this is about what I expected - so, basically, you made up the case out of whole cloth.

Because I see a PM like "Newbie 1725 day 1 started" as the title, so unless you don't have interest in checking your inbox, I don't know why you didn't notice it.

I already answered this question. Here is a quote to answer it again;

Probably I say it was a Day start announcement and didn't open it, because I never really open those as I find them meaningless since I Bookmark all my games and that's how I access them

You can call that a lie if you wish, but it assuredly covers the "why" in your question.

I don't know about you, but me and most of the players I know usually check the subforums, even if they don't check the games in.

I absolutely believe that different people browse the forums differently - that seems very likely to me, and I believe it happens.
You, apparently, don't.

Being a loleasy wagon doesn't make you town. If you notice, I wasn't pushing only you.

I agree, it doesn't make me town, it does suggest you as scum, however.
I will agree that during RVS you poked around a bit, but you assuredly settled on the easy wagon.

But I don't like them and that shouldn't make me stop pressuring them.

Sure - but you are claiming that what I was doing was scummy, not that what I was doing was annoying and you wanted me to participate.

Am I trying to push your lynch?

At this moment? No.
At moments in the game? Yes.

In my opinion, lurking is pro-scum and I don't mind pushing lurkers. If you don't think lurking is scummy, not everyone has the same opinion as you.

Then why are you not talking about Draynath or Blank, or the other lurkers as much as you were talking about me when you were pushing my slot?

I think you're not considering why I would push you other than trying to push an easy wagon.

If you had admitted it only as a activity ply after the fact, I would have considered that and found it okay.
That you defended it as a scum case twigs the hell out of me though.
I can't think of a third reason - do you have one?

Uh, I don't have a case against you. I'm not voting you. My point is simply that it is possible for you to be scum without Creature being your buddy.

I agree that it is possible for me to be scum without Creature as my buddy.
When you voted me your expressed case had Creature as my buddy - I was discussing that.
I feel like you're trying to avoid answering the question.

No, I said I'd try to play like my last (town) game if I were scum. And there was a natural progression to that topic of conversation that your summary is misconstruing and attempting to make look scummy. I don't believe you are scum-reading me for this.

You are, again, avoiding the question.
The question was "why would you be easy to spot as scum?"
Can you try answering it now?

Thor, I think you are just testing the wagon, because you are grasping at weak arguments for scum!Loopdan. I get it-- Pressuring the wagon is good for town. But please have the sense to get off before there is an L-1 vote.

I have no fear of you being an L-1 wagon.
I actually think we need one in about the next 24-48 hours for proper town progression.

Creature v. Thor is going nowhere. I tend to think Thor's inactivity is more likely a town indicator than scum. What does he gain other than undue attention by avoiding the game? Also, it would be against the spirit of the IC role to do this intentionally.

That would indicate it as a null tell.

Loopdan is a newbie

. Sure, his 52 isn't the most pressuring post I've seen. So and what? You are treating him like an IC, and nitpicking at him for everything.

Every case out there at the moment is a nitpick or a misrep.
What prevents Loop from being the target of nitpicking but not, say, Penguin - who you are nitpicking at?

He is my biggest town read atm. His

intention

to pressure me is town.

If pressure is town, isn't the Loop wagon pro-town?

Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )

This is an odd case, first off you're shooting it in its own foot - second, you're saying he finds something suspicious (the focus on the Creature/Thor conflict) and then pointing out that *he isn't focusing on anything!*.
Well...if he finds focus scummy...isn't this evidence that he is town, or at least being honest in his thoughts?
That's like saying someone finds the murder of Major Jackson scummy, and then pointing out that they're not murdering anyone.
That...makes sense, doesn't it?

Not liking Thor either. His has been blindly tunneling on Loopdan.

I am not tunneling in any way at all, unless your definition of it is very strange.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw him encouraging us newbies to post more, to give our scumreads etc. etc. As an IC, he should know better. (This isn't a jab at his competence as an IC. I believe that he is doing it because he's scum, and he isn't pushing the discussion in the right direction)

I know that isn't a job competence issue because it's not part of the job of an IC.
That is one of those magical presumed jobs, where people seem to expect me to be a cheerleader.
That is not my job.
Never has been.
Hopefully never will be.

My feel for Thor right now is that he is defending himself very well, that he is applying alot of pressure on Loopdan, and that he gives alot of town vibes. But given that he is an IC, the ability to do these things is a given. I will resist the urge to trust my gut and townread him.

So, basically, I'm pointing out that I haven't done anything scummy while scumhunting.
But I'm supah experienced!
Therefore I'm a top scumread.

Initially, I did indeed suspect that it's you/Creature. I put my vote on you instead of Creature, because I wanted to reaction test him. This was my line of thought:

Yes, and then you concluded he was more likely town.
Yet you kept voting me - who you had decided was scum because of Creature.
That doesn't seem to make any sense.

[Harkonnen97]

Responses in orange

Loopdan is a newbie

. Sure, his 52 isn't the most pressuring post I've seen. So and what? You are treating him like an IC, and nitpicking at him for everything.

Every case out there at the moment is a nitpick or a misrep.
What prevents Loop from being the target of nitpicking but not, say, Penguin - who you are nitpicking at?

Loopdan is being scumread over 3 posts. I am scumreading Penguin over his entire play.

He is my biggest town read atm. His

intention

to pressure me is town.

If pressure is town, isn't the Loop wagon pro-town?

I didn't mean that I believe pressure=town. That was a reply to the people who were claiming Loopdan's pressure post was fake.

Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )

This is an odd case, first off you're shooting it in its own foot - second, you're saying he finds something suspicious (the focus on the Creature/Thor conflict) and then pointing out that *he isn't focusing on anything!*.
Well...if he finds focus scummy...isn't this evidence that he is town, or at least being honest in his thoughts?
That's like saying someone finds the murder of Major Jackson scummy, and then pointing out that they're not murdering anyone.
That...makes sense, doesn't it?

Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?

Not liking Thor either. His has been blindly tunneling on Loopdan.

I am not tunneling in any way at all, unless your definition of it is very strange.

You are right, you're not really tunneling.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw him encouraging us newbies to post more, to give our scumreads etc. etc. As an IC, he should know better. (This isn't a jab at his competence as an IC. I believe that he is doing it because he's scum, and he isn't pushing the discussion in the right direction)

I know that isn't a job competence issue because it's not part of the job of an IC.
That is one of those magical presumed jobs, where people seem to expect me to be a cheerleader.
That is not my job.
Never has been.
Hopefully never will be.

I never said it was a job. Did you misread jab?

My feel for Thor right now is that he is defending himself very well, that he is applying alot of pressure on Loopdan, and that he gives alot of town vibes. But given that he is an IC, the ability to do these things is a given. I will resist the urge to trust my gut and townread him.

So, basically, I'm pointing out that I haven't done anything scummy while scumhunting.
But I'm supah experienced!
Therefore I'm a top scumread.

This was a speculation, not a read.

Initially, I did indeed suspect that it's you/Creature. I put my vote on you instead of Creature, because I wanted to reaction test him. This was my line of thought:

Yes, and then you concluded he was more likely town.
Yet you kept voting me - who you had decided was scum because of Creature.
That doesn't seem to make any sense.

Initially I thought you were scum because of Creature. Now, I think you are scum without Creature.

[Harkonnen97]

VOTE: PenguinPower

Penguin, spill the beans.

[PenguinPower]

Not liking Penguin at all right now. He is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing on the Creature/Thor conflict. And yet Penguin himself isn't even focusing on anything. He has almost zero to no content. (Though since he is a first-timer, which could be an explanation. Not sure if newbtown or newbscum though. Also don't take it personally, Penguin )

Not sure why you are asserting I have zero content. I'm pretty sure that since I started in the game 2 days ago I provided my readlist and rationale, and prodded responses made by LoopDan. My read on him has not changed. My read on you may since you asserted that LoopDan is a storng townread for you simply because he is a newbie and his statements must have been townie because he is new. Almost circular logic there.

Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?

Sorry I'm not making any WoT. Not my playstyle. I suspect Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature debate AND not posting any other content. Again, you state that I'm not doing anything, but that's patently false. I've already said that we need to move on from Thor's activity level and start focusing on other things, but until Blank, Draynth, Luca start weighing in, I don't have a whole lot to analyze. That's almost 50% of the players.

Penguin, spill the beans.

Spill what beans?

New readlist:

{}
{Lucca, Creature, Thor, MissTerry}
{Hark}
{BlankFace, Draynth}
{LoopDan}

[Thor665]

Loopdan is being scumread over 3 posts. I am scumreading Penguin over his entire play.

I don't see how that matters even if I did agree with it.
As my case has been described (and Loop agreed with my value call) it encapsulates his entire play.
But even if it was only about one post - that wouldn't inherently make it better or worse.

I didn't mean that I believe pressure=town. That was a reply to the people who were claiming Loopdan's pressure post was fake.

Yeah, but you indicated that the pressure came from a town place.
Why does the Loop pressure not come from a town place? i.e. why do you find the two types of pressure different?
If an empty vote on you is townish, why are cases offered on Loop scummy?

Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?

I would argue that is a bit of a misrep. First off, his strongest scumread is not Dan or Blank, but rather someone who has done more than either of them (or both combined) so it's a bit false to suggest that's a primary scumtell he is operating with.
Secondly - Penguin has expressed his issues with the two of them differently, so it's unfair to suggest it's for a singular reason.
Thirdly - I would happily be willing to argue he has done more than either of those two slots, so even if you think lack of activity is scummy, it's quite fair for Penguin to suggest those two slots are underperforming because they basically are the least performing slots in the game. Now, maybe Penguin qualifies as third, I might give you that, but it doesn't suggest any hypocrisy on his part.

Am I missing something here?

You are right, you're not really tunneling.

I know - what made you think I was blind tunneling? There is zero support for that statement.
Felt like an empty attack made to just try to make me look bad/justify me as a scum read voting Loop.

I never said it was a job. Did you misread jab?

If it's not my job, then why are you complaining that I'm not doing it?
If you think it should be done - why aren't you doing it?
I don't understand your issue now.

This was a speculation, not a read.

My bad, I tend to think speculations about alignment are the same as reads (which, to my mind, are speculations about alignment).
So what is your read on me and Penguin? I thought you FoSed us, isn't that a clarification of a read?

Initially I thought you were scum because of Creature. Now, I think you are scum without Creature.

[/quote]
So, if your speculation was not a read - why is your read on me scum?

[PenguinPower]

Read through Hark's and LoopDan's ISOs in conjunction with each other. Looking at everything, I am seeing a distancing play between the two of them up until LoopDan hits L-2 and then all of a sudden LoopDan's entire wagon gets FoS'd by Hark and LoopDan becomes his strongest town read. Very suspicious. Are you nervous your scum buddy is going to get lynched?

@Hark: Why is LoopDan your strongest town read?

[Harkonnen97]

Loopdan is being scumread over 3 posts. I am scumreading Penguin over his entire play.

I don't see how that matters even if I did agree with it.
As my case has been described (and Loop agreed with my value call) it encapsulates his entire play.
But even if it was only about one post - that wouldn't inherently make it better or worse.

I didn't mean that I believe pressure=town. That was a reply to the people who were claiming Loopdan's pressure post was fake.

Yeah, but you indicated that the pressure came from a town place.
Why does the Loop pressure not come from a town place? i.e. why do you find the two types of pressure different?
If an empty vote on you is townish, why are cases offered on Loop scummy?

Because he was doing it to reaction test me. It was part of his RVS. People who are voting for Loop right now want to lynch him, not test him. It's very different. At least that's how I see it.

Let me rephrase that. Penguin is suspecting Blank and Draynth for focusing solely on Thor/Creature, and not talking about anything else. However, Penguin himself isn't doing anything either. If he thinks that lack of presence is scummy, why is he doing it himself?

I would argue that is a bit of a misrep. First off, his strongest scumread is not Dan or Blank, but rather someone who has done more than either of them (or both combined) so it's a bit false to suggest that's a primary scumtell he is operating with.
Secondly - Penguin has expressed his issues with the two of them differently, so it's unfair to suggest it's for a singular reason.
Thirdly - I would happily be willing to argue he has done more than either of those two slots, so even if you think lack of activity is scummy, it's quite fair for Penguin to suggest those two slots are underperforming because they basically are the least performing slots in the game. Now, maybe Penguin qualifies as third, I might give you that, but it doesn't suggest any hypocrisy on his part.

Am I missing something here?

I don't entirely agree. Blank and Draynth have been inactive, but that could be explained with non-game-related reasons (for example, just like

your

inactivity)

Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.

You are right, you're not really tunneling.

I know - what made you think I was blind tunneling? There is zero support for that statement.
Felt like an empty attack made to just try to make me look bad/justify me as a scum read voting Loop.

I never said it was a job. Did you misread jab?

If it's not my job, then why are you complaining that I'm not doing it?
If you think it should be done - why aren't you doing it?
I don't understand your issue now.

I don't have an issue. Didn't mean to sound rude ;-;

This was a speculation, not a read.

My bad, I tend to think speculations about alignment are the same as reads (which, to my mind, are speculations about alignment).
So what is your read on me and Penguin? I thought you FoSed us, isn't that a clarification of a read?

Yep, I FoSed you, and I explained why I'm scumreading you both. That thing I wrote in my earlier post was just my thoughts about you. Like ... I don't know how to say it. Just wanted to make sure I was being understood.

Initially I thought you were scum because of Creature. Now, I think you are scum without Creature.

So, if your speculation was not a read - why is your read on me scum?

I believe you are scum because you're pushing for the lynch of someone who I believe is obvtown, and you're strongarming the rest of us into following you.

[Harkonnen97]

@Hark: Why is LoopDan your strongest town read?

Because I don't find anything scummy in his posts and the wagon against him makes no sense.
(about your inactivity - my apologies if I sounded rude Penguin)

[PenguinPower]

Penguin is here, and I believe that he is lurking on purpose. I think the term is called bettlejuice? He was quiet, but now that he is mentioned, he suddenly gets more active, and provides a read list and all that good stuff. That he could have done without being prompted to.

Hold on now. This is a straight up lie. I posted my first readlist with rationale without being prompted, as I mentioned above. It was my second post (first post if you exclude the welcome post). I pressed on the responses that LoopDan gave. I said he rationale appeared to be a copout. I'm not sure why you continue to assert that I was inactive until prompted, because that's patently false.

Trying to sow some confusion in this game, are you?

[Harkonnen97]

I wasn't talking about your first readlist. But you can't deny that you gave your second readlist in response to me mentioning you.