Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

I'm going on a day by day cases for mason claims.

Looking at your notes sabre all of it is worst case scenario.
I think day 2 mason's should claim only if one of them is close to be lynched.
I think waiting to claim till day 3 is best. Keeping mason's as safe as possible while looking for scum is what is best for the town.

vote: ABR

Are you scum this game?

[farside22]

@ farside: There are too many scenarios for me to post, and it would do little good to do so. I just showed the worst case so that we see the consequences of each act.

I just go on a case by case and not think about the worst.

[farside22]

@Farside: Are you scum?

No. Are you scum?
There is only one player I really know in this game and I'm confronting him head on to determine his allignment hence my vote and question.

[farside22]

@Farside: Are you scum?

No. Are you scum?
There is only one player I really know in this game and I'm confronting him head on to determine his allignment hence my vote and question.

No, I am not scum.

Do you really think he's going to tell you even if he was? Pointless question really.

It's all in how he anwsers and what he says when he gets online.

[farside22]

@Farside: Are you scum?

No. Are you scum?

There is only one player I really know in this game and I'm confronting him head on

to determine his allignment hence my vote and question.

I know this isn't rocket science but really I did say already what I'm trying to do.

[farside22]

unvote; vote: DLA

For giving a wishy washy reason for his vote, allowing him to have a back door in case the vote goes bad.

Hiya all!

Vote: kikuchiyo

Seems the most scummy so far... But I guess I can't base anything on

1.5 pages

two posts talking about past games...

Fixed

How do you know what he meant to say? Why are you putting words in his mouth?
Mind you most people do RVS and his comments is meh but I don't like when people assume comments like this.

[farside22]

unvote; vote: DLA

For giving a wishy washy reason for his vote, allowing him to have a back door in case the vote goes bad.

Hiya all!

Vote: kikuchiyo

Seems the most scummy so far... But I guess I can't base anything on

1.5 pages

two posts talking about past games...

Fixed

How do you know what he meant to say? Why are you putting words in his mouth?
Mind you most people do RVS and his comments is meh but I don't like when people assume comments like this.

I'm not putting words in his mouth, I just made the statement more accurate. Saying 1.5 pages worth implies that she posts a lot more. Stating her actual post count is better descriptive, and shows how little he has to accuse her on. The discussing previous games is also accurate, as that is all kik has talked about thus far, or do you see something else to argue over?

I just don't like people doing that. It irks me, but I realize rereading it that's it not a false statement your trying to imply. That was what I thought when I saw that at first.

[farside22]

Unvote, vote: DLA

Chainsaw defense by Farside? Are you guys 2/3 of the mafia?

Explain how my comment is a chainsaw defense. Do you find it not scummy to put words that someone didn't say into their statement?
Mind you as I said just the post previously I understand better what saber was doing but I see scum put twist interpretation into peoples statement more often then not.

[farside22]

Unvote, vote: DLA

Chainsaw defense by Farside? Are you guys 2/3 of the mafia?

Explain how my comment is a chainsaw defense. Do you find it not scummy to put words that someone didn't say into their statement?
Mind you as I said just the post previously I understand better what saber was doing but I see scum put twist interpretation into peoples statement more often then not.

Chainsaw defense is when one scum defends another scum by attacking the other scums attacker. To answer the question: There is no absolute answer. It depends on the intention. Saber's post read more like a joke with a serious undertone. i.e. DLA implied that I was scummy. Their post was not made clearly in jest(AEB 49). I think Saber may have been testing that out. Your reaction seemed like a defense of DLA. Is DLA incapable of defending themselves? In any case, I placed a question mark after my "chainsaw" comment. That means I am asking, not accusing. Are we done having fun?

Wow this is the first time that chainsaw defense actually made sense to me. Can't believe no one ever simplfied it's meaning to me.
In other news voting on someone that hasn't posted anywhere in any game typically means we need a replacement and those BW votes do nothing for the game.

[farside22]

Chainsaw really isn't conclusive unless one party or the other is actually conf scum.

Oh I get that I just always felt confused whenever I heard the term but I wasn't defending DLA I was question saberwolf on his edit of DLA's post so I'm not sure how that qualifies as chainsaw defense.

[farside22]

My thoughts on DarkLightA.
Well looking back his first post and reasoning is meh. Most people vote RVS. He says he finds kikuchiyo the most scummy but not why.
This comment below makes no sense to me at all.

Unvote, vote: DLA

Chainsaw defense by Farside? Are you guys 2/3 of the mafia?

No, because it seems like you had a non-random vote, and tried to "hide" it (so that you don't get the blame later) by adding an innocent

In other news: I absolutely love this cast! I know 8/12 I believe. Fun fun!

Please explain your vote.

He unvoted and voted on a no show as a BW vote.
So far I am less then impressed with anything that DLA has given this game. It's been either meh comments or BW on someone who is most likely just needed to be replaced. None of this reads townie to me.

unvote:
vote: DLA

[farside22]

OMG post 74 has made my day. Just wow, really, seriously is this just the way you always are?
saber is the second person to mention play X always does this and that makes them town. Meta is so overrated people!
Seriously if I'm scum and I know someone knows my play style I would so use that to my advance. Meta reads is just weak. It's a tool I see town and scum use to their advance. Focus people on the game.
In other news I'm not moving my vote any time soon.

[farside22]

Then it would be wise to assume that he makes these illogical leaps as scum as well.

Farside, have you deciphered post 74? Any comment?

Lets see from what I gathered he thinks my vote opportunistic and apparently I was concerned by the chainsaw remark enough to vote on him.
I'm not seeing that at all. First my comment was not defending DLA at all. As I said earlier I was questioning saber's interperation of DLA's comment and what I felt was spinning the comment into something it wasn't.
Ergo not defending DLA.
Second chainsaw defense is null as I just pointed out wasn't defending anyone. Seriously if questioning another player about their motives and means is defending someone everyone in all games would be accused of chainsaw defense then.
As for my vote. I placed my reasoning based on comments DLA made in the game including his BW vote on a player that hasn't responded which I don't find helpful or townie at all.

[farside22]

Because I also think Saber is scummy for the contradictions in his posts and I was still deciding who to vote as I wrote the post, should I just not mention those suspicions? Considering I picked a vote I wasn't pretending to be undecided, I'm

decided

that I would accept either lynch right now.

"Not OMGUS, BUT" votes are always fake, DLA had no problem with Farside before she voted him. He claims she flipflopped by voting him but she said before she wasn't defending him, she was questioning Saber for putting words into DLA's mouth. If anything DLA is misrepresenting Farside's position which is scummy.

marry me!
okay sorry I'm having a breakdown in another game that I can't mention and it's just nice to see someone else see exactly what I saw.

[farside22]

Mod: Prod on Toro to go with the prod on Yarmond?

DLA...ugh. I know that last time we lynched him for play like this and he was the doc, but his play is just so...terrible...ugh.


The relationship among Kikuchiyo/Shotty/Saber/Konowa seems to be very interesting. If any of them are scum, we'll need to reexamine these posts very closely.

As a player I would hope people would improve their game play as townie if they listen to others criticism's of their play.
Once again I think meta is over rated.

[farside22]

The mod hasn't posted for 5 days...What's standard procedure for that?

Dude it's thanksgiving today. But a prod to the mod may be in order

[farside22]

DLA can you give any better reasoning for that vote in post 74? Because that was honestly God awful.

I think it'd seem like a good tactic..

I just disputed your comments.
First there was only 1 vote on you when I voted. Second I didn't defend you as you stated.

[farside22]

This (You were being pressured)

Unvote, vote: DLA

Chainsaw defense by Farside? Are you guys 2/3 of the mafia?

Explain how my comment is a chainsaw defense. Do you find it not scummy to put words that someone didn't say into their statement?
Mind you as I said just the post previously I understand better what saber was doing but I see scum put twist interpretation into peoples statement more often then not.

It's wasn't a chainsaw defense. I didn't understand the term and when explained it didn't fit tha accusations.

[farside22]

Well, I've been away. Now that I'm back.....

I don't really like saber's attack on Hewitt. There is supposedly no "random vote stage", and the idea that everybody must vote for a random player negates the intent. It is laughable to seriously suspect someone for that reason.

I also don't like Darklight's play in this game, but I know from a previous game with him that he acts extremely, extremely scummily as town.

I'm getting an initial town read from Kikuchiyo for pushing the game forward and mediating a lot of the little petty disputes.

Just rereading things and I found quote a little off.
What is saber attack on Hewit laughable? Don't you think it's better to have some discusion to get us off the RVS stage?
Why is it that kikuchiyo gets a town read for pushing things forward but not saber?

[farside22]

Also I see post 77 then I read this comment from saber.

Lack of vote fails to impress me.

who me? I did have a vote, but I took it off for reasons I thought were valid.

If you are so concerned about it though, I'd be happy to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside:

vote: konowa

I haven't had enough posts by everyone or enough content to pick out any scum yet, so you'll have to do.

I see better why there was votes on saber.
@saber: if you find that DLA is scummy in his comment and statment towards you why do you vote konowa in this post?

[farside22]

Seriously if I'm scum and I know someone knows my play style I would so use that to my advantage.

QFT. Fixed grammar, but QFT.

If you feel this way why in a previous post do you bring up DLA's meta?

[farside22]

Ok.

I will pretend I never read post 74 and allow you, DLA, the chance to make a sensible, logical post to replace it. Go now, I'm closing my eyes.

Now that DLA has taken a firm stand on this post what are your thoughts on the matter?

[farside22]

I took my vote off DLA because I was happy to see that he wasn't being dogmatic in his views. Konowa essentially complained about my lack of vote, so to please him I voted for him, just to have my vote somewhere.

But your vote on konowa direction contradicts this statement you made about DLA.

If anything, he's simply trying to get the attention off of himself by pointing out someone who he feels can be redirected to as scummier, or just as scummy, for supossedly the same actions. That's how I see it anyways.

[farside22]

I had yet to decide whether or not I wanted to switch my vote. kikuchiyo understanding instantly what I meant and voting saber did play a small part in my decision. I, however, decided that between DLA and saber that saber was scummier to me at the moment. I think that DLA is also scummy and needs a good wagon, but I like my vote where it is right now.

Why do I feel like there is only five or six of us talking?

Wanting someone to back you up is scummy.

[farside22]

I read that too and just finished my read.
So far my top 2 suspects are DLA just not on his post 74 but what I said earlier and now later just misrepresenting the post and his OMGUS vote on post 74 is the final nail.
Konowa I don't like that comment of waiting on someone else to confirm something. It's a scummy move. Being afraid to vote or voice an opion is a typical scum tactic.
Elizabeth needs to be more vocal.

[farside22]

What is saber attack on Hewit laughable? Don't you think it's better to have some discusion to get us off the RVS stage?

For the record though that would be me who got us out of the RVS stage not saber.

In my mind seeing saber talk about the set up and when mason's should claim was also a good way to get out of the RVS a bit but just because you don't vote and forces people to question you about that doesn't mean you brought people out of the RVS stage.

[farside22]

Moar votes or a post explaining why you think this is a bad idea, now please.

I don't see how voting out a person who never showed up helps the town.

[farside22]

Something just hit me. Can we get a vote count please?

[farside22]

Wow, this is one heated debate. If Hewitt flips town, ABR will look stupid, If I'm correct.

Hewitt and ABR, keep arguing. It's fun watching you two have at it.

What have you done this game exactly but follow BW's and then critisize someone for not contributing. Talk about hypocritical. I disagree with ABR. I don't see it as a good case and the following with no reasoning in this game is really dumb.

unvote
vote: CSL

[farside22]

Just reading elizabeth's post 276. Why are you voting hewitt? Nothing in that post shows a reason. How is hewitt misrep? Why are you taking one side over the other?
Ugh @ DLA.

[farside22]

hewitt, I'm going to have to agree with ABR on this one. You have not contributed at all. I know I haven't contributed much either, but that's because I don't see anything that sets off my scumdar, EXCEPT this.

This is kind of a funny little misrepresentation here. When did I ever state that I've been a top contributor?

This is the post that has me seriously question CSL and his hypocrital comment. Calling out another player when his actions and comments have been less then stellar.

[farside22]

Stop. Fucking. Accusing people of not contributing. It will never end.

At this point in time I don't mind lynching farside22 either.

Ellibereth, what do you think of the other players? Can you quote instead of writing "post x"?

Why because I want follow you? Or because I don't agree with lynching a person who never said a word? Or because I find the case is meh and everyone just ignored me when I asked question?
So far all the following is scummy and CSL looks opportunist.

[farside22]

At this point in time, people can vote for hewitt along with a simple DIE SCUM DIE! for all I care. Not posting a lot of content isn't scummy, it's just lazy. Not voting for scum is scummy.

farside22, can you replace Lab Mafia?

The fact that Ellibereth is following this wagon along with CSL no I'm not convinced of hewitt's scummiest with these 2 on the wagon.

As for Lab Mafia he said he would be back on Tuesday. I will give him a chance to return then. If not then I will find a replacement mod.

[farside22]

Quit saying "the following" when it's "the above". Are you still suspicious of DLA?

It's clear to me that there are two types of players in this game:

Seriously how can you not call it following? Please show where elibeth or CSL showed content that made a case that was not just blah comments?
Yes I'm still suspicious of DLA, but in a sad and scary way I think he's trying to make a point. Did you ever answer my question about him?
Just in case I asked what where your thoughts on post 74 now that DLA stood firm by it? What are your thoughts now that it failed he is moving onto other things?

[farside22]

Not posting a lot of content isn't scummy, it's just lazy.

I disagree with this statement. Frankly I find more scum that don't post content then town.

[farside22]

Post 305 is addressed to you, farside...

Now I don't know about you, but I sure as hell ain't going to start mislynching the second group while the scum NKs the first group every night. It's obvious that later in the game, scum will want to lynch the easy targets. I'm not looking for an easy target. We have to decide, right now, who among the key players are we going to trust or suspect.

I'm getting to the second part but you and I both know that reading your comment I quoted above sounds like you are willing to mislynch the first group even thought that is who the mafia will most likely kill unless there is mafia in that group so why prey tell do you want to keep those alive that most little to nothing when the scum won't kill them if there is no mafia in that second group?

[farside22]

Look:

Yarmond is even more useless yet you don't vote him.

Yes, GREAT idea ABR, let's vote the player who's going to be replaced anyway instead of the player who actually is in the game yet actively chooses not to contribute anything original, thought-provoking, or helpful.

You see? Ellibereth just said the exact same thing as hewitt in fewer words and without sarcasm.

unvote
vote: Ellibereth

I don't like the the Yarmond Wagon

Defending a player who isn't here?? SERIOUSLY????

SCUM:
1. Ellibereth
2. Yarmond
3. ???

Yah, they both defended Yarmond. So what? I fail to understand your logic.

[/quote]

I think he expects the defense of yarmond to be scum motivated. It's not that hard to understand.
On a side not please stoop the personal insults.

[farside22]

Cut the head and the body will fall. You kill the head mafia and the minions will surely fall. This is the wisdom I've acquired after years of experience playing mafia.

What does this have to do with the price of coffee? This statement avoids everything I just asked.

[farside22]

I focused first on the 2 that are arguing the most with each other first.

hewitt - Talks about sparky conversation by not voting during RVS. Don't agree that hewitt was the reason we got out of RVS. Lets try another method of not sparking discussion. What exactly where you trying to get people to disagree with you about?
Ask for conversation and again offer nothing to go on. The post for ABR is OMGUS. Reasoning is flawed! Talks about ABR not contributing but not till the case is on him from ABR. IE How fake is hewitts vote on a scale of 1 - 10 (10!) Oh and wow I see this as more questionable

Keep in mind also CSL could have the same offense attributed to him as well. Although he's only been in the game for three days, so it's a tiny bit more excusable.
And Shotty to the Body is just as bad as ABR when it comes to posting without any true content. A lynch on either one of them is perfectly acceptable and I would back either one.

There was CSL, Ellibereth, shotty, ect. Many can be accused of this but you only point to ABR, CSL and shotty. Please! Guess what only very few at this point were really actually contributing.
Sorry even if there was no vote on Hewitt there was a deffinate case on him that just feels like hewitt ignored. How is telling people to make discussion contributing. Why do you say your trying to get something going but it goes no where. Why do you point to ABR as a noncontributor in the game as your case when more then half the people in this game could be accused of this action?

Albert B. Rampage - Jokes around a bit. Ask questions but doesnt' answer questions asked of him. Post about Elibereth contradicts

That's it? Your first post in 6 pages and that's all you have to offer?

Unvote, vote Elibereth

Contradicts comments here

Alright first I want to make one thing clear. Don't vote for people "for not contributing". It's a void argument. A vote

is

a contribution.

You have a looooot of content to post before you can redeem yourself for your absence.

Yeah I get that he wants to promote discussion and does nothing to get it started. Is it protown? No.

Farside, I asked you a DIRECT question.

Ellibereth, Netopalis, kikuchiyo, farside22. If you had to lynch one of me or hewitt right this instant, who would it be?

You or hewitt. I would lynch hewitt first but yeah I'm not happy with a few things from others. Sorry it's my nature to question.

On reread I found one contradiction but yeah some serious scum hunting, questioning and commenting going on. Missed a question but I missed a question.

In short I find hewitt scummier then ABR between the two.

[farside22]

I think he expects the defense of yarmond to be scum motivated. It's not that hard to understand.
On a side not please stoop the personal insults.

Ohhhh, I'm sorry farside, I didn't know you were a mind reader. Can you tell us DLA's role too while you're at it? Don't try to justify someone else's actions unless you understand them. And I know for a fact that you don't understand DLA, because you keep saying so.

Yes hewitt, stop the personal insults. Oh, you mean me? I haven't insulted anyone. I find DLA's posts alien and discordant. That's not ad hominem.

Cut the head and the body will fall. You kill the head mafia and the minions will surely fall. This is the wisdom I've acquired after years of experience playing mafia.

What does this have to do with the price of coffee? This statement avoids everything I just asked.

If you can figure out which one of the key players is the scum, it will be a piece of cake to find out which players among DLA, CSL, Ellibereth, are scum.

On the contrary, if you lynch one of DLA and company, we get no information on the players in the first group.

Lets see if I lynch DLA I may get a read if he comes up scum to those who did not vote on him. If I lynch CSL or elibereth and either come up scum I look to those who ignored them.
IE: scum predictable

[farside22]

I think he expects the defense of yarmond to be scum motivated. It's not that hard to understand.
On a side not please stoop the personal insults.

I did comment my thoughts on 74 in case you missed it and how I read into it what I thought he may be saying. So far no one has said boo about it.
He said person A and B defends person C must be scum with A and B. Is that really that hard to understand?
I'm not getting into the pot shots comment I will talk about it after the game.

[farside22]

I didn't contradict myself, I just told you to do something that I didn't do myself. Like a bad father telling his son to do as he says and not as he does. It's more that I realized after the fact what was going on. Everyone was just jumping on the easy targets Ellibereth, DLA and CSL. I think it's more beneficial to kill off the mastermind of the group so the scum's night debrief goes on much less intelligently.

That's a contradiction and I hate parents that do it.
Second ignoring people that do not contribute and letting the scum take out the people contributing over those that are not helps the town how exactly come lylo?

[farside22]

I didn't contradict myself, I just told you to do something that I didn't do myself. Like a bad father telling his son to do as he says and not as he does. It's more that I realized after the fact what was going on. Everyone was just jumping on the easy targets Ellibereth, DLA and CSL. I think it's more beneficial to kill off the mastermind of the group so the scum's night debrief goes on much less intelligently.

That's a contradiction and I hate parents that do it.

First off, this is what happened: I thought like all of you guys, and "hey this useless players like Ellibereth must be purged!", but then I saw what was happening and decided to adopt a wiser strategy. So now I'm telling you to stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

You were the only vote on Elibereth at the time. The only other votes have been against yarmond. That's it. Biggest vote is on hewitt. So.....those that have been lazy haven't had much pressure. Well DLA but I wouldnt' say he is a non contributor.

Second ignoring people that do not contribute and letting the scum take out the people contributing over those that are not helps the town how exactly come lylo?

I think that Day 1, we better lynch one of the players in the first category.

I'll finish my analysis and see where I stand but hewitt should respond to the post I made of his double standard remarks during the game so far.

[farside22]

Lets see if I lynch DLA I may get a read if he comes up scum to those who did not vote on him. If I lynch CSL or elibereth and either come up scum I look to those who ignored them.
IE: scum predictable

There happens to be something called 'bussing' as well, you know..

Unvote

FoS: Everyone

I'm REALLY confused right now..

This true but I'm not going to give scum the advantage of knowing everything I look into when a scum comes up lynched. Not here and not now.
LOL at the FOS.
sorry trying not to laugh but damn funny.

[farside22]

hewitt - Talks about sparky conversation by not voting during RVS. Don't agree that hewitt was the reason we got out of RVS. Lets try another method of not sparking discussion. What exactly where you trying to get people to disagree with you about?
Ask for conversation and again offer nothing to go on. The post for ABR is OMGUS. Reasoning is flawed! Talks about ABR not contributing but not till the case is on him from ABR. IE How fake is hewitts vote on a scale of 1 - 10 (10!) Oh and wow I see this as more questionable

In short I find hewitt scummier then ABR between the two.

Yeah, hewitt has a lot to answer for. Good posting.

Yeah I get now why people say they tune out people that argue back and forth. It's hard to not glaze over an argument between people. I went back to read what happened a bit better. My appologizes, (waits for someone to call it scummy. Notes: how many people can say they don't glaze out when people are arguing)

[farside22]

Well DLA but I wouldnt' say he is a non contributor.

Yeah, I happen to consider myself more of a.. I dunno.. "Spread thoughts out and confuse everyone" guy?

You should post that under your profile.

[farside22]

Farside: Seems to weigh out all possibilities, and not jump on people. Farside is a skilled player, so this might be a trick to up your post count without getting into too much of a mess by accusing people directly.

IDK why I have so many people say this about me. I feel like pointing out I've been out of playing mafia for over 6 months. Maybe that means nothing to some people but for me it's like riding a bike and not remembering all the gadgets on it.

[farside22]

Farside is a mother, although her son's still young

Thanks kiku.

It's something I feel all parents should work on but I can see how it can be hard to not use that god forsaken comment that ABR used.
I tell my hubby all the time it's hard to be upset with something our son does that we do.

[farside22]

I don't think ABR is that Mafiate at all and if anything is more of a SensFan

What? *puts hand to head* I'm scared when I see people who use others style of play as an example and a term.
Okay hewitt how is it that telling people to have a discussion sparks conversations?
2) again how is it that asking people to have to disagree with you spark any conversation when you don't tell people what they are to disagree with.

I pointed specifically to ABR because he was one of the more vocal players in the game

that was not your case on him at all in fact you said just the opposite about him in your case. In fact you stated this about him

Reading all the players in ISO I think it's pretty clear that ABR has been and most likely will be the most useless player in this game.

That's pretty harsh considering others where not exactly playing this game at full throttle.
Finally
I feel that vote of yours (against Ellibereth) is like a person who just got caught trying to make a bad case and trying to do a 180 to salvage yourself.

One thing I will agree with there is more here then those non contributors who dont' add anything to this game but there really is more then one person so your vote and logic is faulty.

[farside22]

I don't think ABR is that Mafiate at all and if anything is more of a SensFan

I pointed specifically to ABR because he was one of the more vocal players in the game

Reading all the players in ISO I think it's pretty clear that ABR has been and most likely will be the most useless player in this game.

Use names please.

Sorry all those post belong to Hewitt

[farside22]

Unvote

With that post, hewitt is either protown, or extremely skilled town. That post, as far as I know, is protown.

I'm now going for a DLA BW. Since hewitt now appears protown, as per this:

I could go for a DLA lynch today or tomorrow, if we lynched hewitt today and he flipped town I would be 100% behind a DLA lynch day two.

I am inclined to

Vote: DLA

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean I'm done with you, hewitt.

Also, if anyone sees a flaw with his statement, I will switch my vote back to him...

Following again? With that as your reason?
Since when has lining up lynches been pro-town?
Anyone?

[farside22]

Anything, I really don't care honestly as long as it starts discussion SOMEHOW.

Does this not ask others to start discussion and every attempt you made failed.

In other news not chaning my vote from CSL anytime soon.

[farside22]

I would like to just point out that hewitt didn't take his vote off of ABR till (1) he realized no one was agreeing with him or (2) looking for an easier lynch.
CSL and hewitt ignoring each other combined with CSL remvoing his vote from hewitt looks like it was a possible buss trying to backtrack.
That's my theory. WIFOM all you may say but still looks suspicious.

[farside22]

Well it seems then from what I'm reading that we as a majority think that CSL and Hewitt are both scummy, and maybe even both scum...so what do we do to convince the other that the other BW is the way to go?

I now have to do schoolwork, but later tonight I'llpost a case for both hopefully.

I want to see everyone respond to both players and the cases on them.

[farside22]

I could go for a DLA lynch today or tomorrow, if we lynched hewitt today and he flipped town I would be 100% behind a DLA lynch day two.

first did you answer the question of how hewitt's flip determines DLA?
Second did lining up lynches not become scummy?

[farside22]

I would like to just point out that hewitt didn't take his vote off of ABR till (1) he realized no one was agreeing with him or (2) looking for an easier lynch.

I don't know how else to get it through to you. I don't care what you all do at this point. At this point I'm going to do my own thing and if people have common sense then that's great but if they don't then it really doesn't matter and there was nothing else I could've done anyway.

Getting aggravated is not going to win you over with me. I'm still voting CSL.
For the record I hate meta. It's something both town and scum use. Scum use it to conceal their scumminess and town uses it to try and find scum by past performance. People can use meta against the town, which is why I find it a bad thing to go on.

[farside22]

Getting aggravated is not going to win you over with me. I'm still voting CSL.
For the record I hate meta. It's something both town and scum use. Scum use it to conceal their scumminess and town uses it to try and find scum by past performance. People can use meta against the town, which is why I find it a bad thing to go on.

You're...not...getting...me aggravated? And what are you talking about with meta? What is the relevance in this post?

It's in regards to your post here

And for the record, playing with DLA, CSL, and saberwolf all together really fucking sucks. Honest to good the most sporadic, nonsensical players ever. This little vote hopping thing that they're all so fond of is REALLY getting on my nerves. This is the first time ever I'm actually getting aggravated in real life over Mafia, congrats you three.

[farside22]

I could go for a DLA lynch today or tomorrow, if we lynched hewitt today and he flipped town I would be 100% behind a DLA lynch day two.

first did you answer the question of how hewitt's flip determines DLA?
Second did lining up lynches not become scummy?

Who pushed Hewitt's lynch the hardest? ABR and DLA? Last time I checked pushing mislynches was bad? Hewitt said the same thing in 278. Why aren't you busting his balls?

Please read my last post and tell me what you think. If you need more reason look at 287 and see how DLA backs off the Hewitt wagon as it approaches fruition. He even is really to hinge lynching me based on Hewitt being scum, but then suddenly he doesn't believe in the wagon? 'Tis a load of bull.

I need to read when everything happened as you say it happened.
I'm getting the anti-town but not scum vibe from DLA that I can't shake at this moment. First I thought scum based on poor comments and bad logic.
Now it's a confused person who I see some points that may be valid but when he can't confirm if someone caught onto his thinking it just leaves me confused about him.

[farside22]

okay just to get shotty to see that as much as DLA has not won me over in any way CSL's vot on DLA was this:

I am inclined to

Vote: DLA

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean I'm done with you, hewitt.

Also, if anyone sees a flaw with his statement, I will switch my vote back to him...

There was no mention or anything of suspicious on DLA from CSL before this. In fact most of CSL is focused on Hewitt. Who he takes his vote off of till he hears if anyone finds flaws with his statement!
Seriously.

Well, someone commented negatively on hewitt.

Unvote; Vote: hewitt

Quick or not quick, hewitt's scummy ass needs to die.

At this point the votes are either hewitt or CSL.

Saber's full vote and reason just so it's clear:

In that case, maybe It'd make the most sense to lynch DLA?

If DLA flips scum, I'd focus on ABR. If DLA flips town, I'd look at CSL and hewitt, but mostly hewitt.

unvote; vote: DLA

I don't see how this is really a case. This is just blantant following of someone elses logic (which in this case was shotty's post on DLA)

[farside22]

CSL will always be CSL, expecting pro-town behavior from him is moronic, look for pro-town motivation it's the best you will get. He thinks Hewitt is town so he goes after DLA for attacking Hewitt. That's how CSL plays.

Saber didn't post his own case, but you don't need an original thought to join a wagon last time I checked, if you did nothing would get done.

So you allow people to just follow others and accept it because it's there meta?
Yet some people so far has pointed out that DLA is typically this way as well what makes him different?

[farside22]

I would like to note that DLA did have a case on CSL before CSL did his crap vote for no reason so that vote was not OMGUS.
I keep feeling people miss the point that so far 2 people are lining up lynches and find this behavoir excusable.

[farside22]

CSL will always be CSL, expecting pro-town behavior from him is moronic, look for pro-town motivation it's the best you will get.

He thinks Hewitt is town so he goes after DLA for attacking Hewitt. That's how CSL plays.

Saber didn't post his own case, but you don't need an original thought to join a wagon last time I checked, if you did nothing would get done.

So you allow people to just follow others and accept it because it's there meta?
Yet some people so far has pointed out that DLA is typically this way as well what makes him different?

It has nothing to do with meta, quit misrepping. It's fucking common sense, not everyone can possibly post original material against a lynchee, if this isn't true throughout the game it is definitely true on D1 when we have nothing to work with.

I care nothing for meta; DLA has played scummy as hell in this game, all his 'scum-hunting' is forced at best and when investigated is flimsier than paper. The fact that you're defending him is terrible.

How can you say it's not meta just based on the quote and what is in bold?
Also you are willing to lynch DLA on his behavior, OMGUS votes and you want to ignores those that dont' post anything at all remotely helpful to the town.

As for DLA's case on people. comments about each other the players and his thoughts
He said this before CSL's vote and comment. Preying on a weak player doesn't not make me all warm and fuzzy.

[farside22]

CSL will always be CSL, expecting pro-town behavior from him is moronic, look for pro-town motivation it's the best you will get.

He thinks Hewitt is town so he goes after DLA for attacking Hewitt. That's how CSL plays.

Saber didn't post his own case, but you don't need an original thought to join a wagon last time I checked, if you did nothing would get done.

So you allow people to just follow others and accept it because it's there meta?
Yet some people so far has pointed out that DLA is typically this way as well what makes him different?

It has nothing to do with meta, quit misrepping. It's fucking common sense, not everyone can possibly post original material against a lynchee, if this isn't true throughout the game it is definitely true on D1 when we have nothing to work with.

I care nothing for meta; DLA has played scummy as hell in this game, all his 'scum-hunting' is forced at best and when investigated is flimsier than paper. The fact that you're defending him is terrible.

How can you say it's not meta just based on the quote and what is in bold?
Also you are willing to lynch DLA on his behavior, OMGUS votes and you want to ignores those that dont' post anything at all remotely helpful to the town.

As for DLA's case on people. comments about each other the players and his thoughts
He said this before CSL's vote and comment. Preying on a weak player doesn't not make me all warm and fuzzy.

EVERYONE ON THAT LIST WAS "SCUMMY" EXCEPT FOR ABR AND YOU! IT'S THE MOST TRANSPARENT SCUM-HUNTING FAIL EVER!

How the fuck are you not preying on a weak player by jumping on the CSL wagon? If you flip CSL town, mark my words no one will forgot how hard you defended a "weaker player" DLA with one hand while lynching the same with the other.

As for the meta part, I thought you meant Saber please use names and not just him it gets confusing. Your original question so loaded it would sink anyways. Obviously I don't approve him voting without reasons, but this wagon is a scum-driven joke.

Can't wait for ABR to stop lurking and join us either, or Konowa, or Kikuchiyo, that'd be cool, or for the mod to show up again.

Lets see trying to flip this like you know CSL is town now? That looks bad. Do you know him to be town?
What if he flipped scum?
What if DLA flips town what about what it looks like for you and how you pushed so hard? I mean really worried. IF CSL did someone how flip town and I'm alive tomorrow I would show why my vote was justified and the fact I didn't back down based on his votes, comments and overall unhelpfulness in the game.
When someone says I'm all up for DLA lynch with no reason or comment before hand, yeah I will go with scummy.
You should read the quote in question instead of yelling at people when it's clear who I'm talking about based on your own quote.

[farside22]

1. That's your problem, you're too worried about what 'looks' scummy and not worried enough about what actually is.

3. I'd shrug, it's CSL I can't read him because he always plays this way and I would still think DLA should be lynched.

Boy don't you come off as hypocritcal at this point from this post to just the prior comment to me.

If you flip CSL town, mark my words no one will forgot how hard you defended a "weaker player" DLA with one hand while lynching the same with the other.

So you can say it's okay for you defend a weak player but no one else.
I got it.

FOS: Shotty

[farside22]

Right pushing DLA is defending CSL. I just said I don't know his alignment or care, he's not the right play. His lynch will be info-less. Talking to you is pointless, when DLA flips scum lynching you next.

Again you talk like you know someone's alignment. If DLA did come up as scum I would look at this post as someone that has inside knoweledge as scum trying to do a buss.

You have excused CLS as meta how is that not defending him?

[farside22]

This is some sweet modding. Will we have to close it ourselves at deadline or do we just continue?
1. Whoo good point to me being scummy.
2. Lol you can read the future now? AMAZING! What will I post on D3 when you and farside are hanging?
3. Really how so? It's my opinion, how did I speak for the whole thread? How is this scummy? I don't control their votes magically by posting my thoughts. How do you know they don't agree, do you read minds now too?

You know #3 contradict #2 statement.
Finally CSL has done more then one vote based on nothing but following or meh comments. So it's more then one vote I'm talking about.
Considering your act of saying that DLA is scum and flips town I'm curious to see how far you're almost calling DLA scum will turn out if he flips town.
I just note that shotty you have pointed to CSL calling him town and calling DLA as a known fact.
Anyone else you want to call out as a known fact for us?

[farside22]

So it's between CSL, DLA and hewitt now? Farside, replace lab mafia and ban him for ever modding again plz.

I'm going to replace him. As for banning he would have to prove himself as a mod and get a back up mod the next time he in's to mod.

On a mafia note: What is your thoughts on shotty's case on DLA?

[farside22]

I call it out as a known fact, simply because otherwise I wouldn't be doing my job as the VI

Maybe your trying to be cute but the only people who know who is scum is scum.
If you missed that point I'll be glad to repeat it.

[farside22]

2. Lol you can read the future now? AMAZING! What will I post on D3 when you and farside are hanging?
3. Really how so? It's my opinion, how did I speak for the whole thread? How is this scummy? I don't control their votes magically by posting my thoughts. How do you know they don't agree, do you read minds now too?

2 is you saying I'm hanging on along with DLA by day 3
3 is saying you dont' control the votes.
That is the contradiction

All my comments about CSL:

Wow, this is one heated debate. If Hewitt flips town, ABR will look stupid, If I'm correct.

Hewitt and ABR, keep arguing. It's fun watching you two have at it.

What have you done this game exactly but follow BW's and then critisize someone for not contributing. Talk about hypocritical. I disagree with ABR. I don't see it as a good case and the following with no reasoning in this game is really dumb.

unvote
vote: CSL

hewitt, I'm going to have to agree with ABR on this one. You have not contributed at all. I know I haven't contributed much either, but that's because I don't see anything that sets off my scumdar, EXCEPT this.

This is kind of a funny little misrepresentation here. When did I ever state that I've been a top contributor?

This is the post that has me seriously question CSL and his hypocrital comment. Calling out another player when his actions and comments have been less then stellar.

At this point in time, people can vote for hewitt along with a simple DIE SCUM DIE! for all I care. Not posting a lot of content isn't scummy, it's just lazy. Not voting for scum is scummy.

farside22, can you replace Lab Mafia?

The fact that Ellibereth is following this wagon along with CSL no I'm not convinced of hewitt's scummiest with these 2 on the wagon.

As for Lab Mafia he said he would be back on Tuesday. I will give him a chance to return then. If not then I will find a replacement mod.

Unvote

With that post, hewitt is either protown, or extremely skilled town. That post, as far as I know, is protown.

I'm now going for a DLA BW. Since hewitt now appears protown, as per this:

I could go for a DLA lynch today or tomorrow, if we lynched hewitt today and he flipped town I would be 100% behind a DLA lynch day two.

I am inclined to

Vote: DLA

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean I'm done with you, hewitt.

Also, if anyone sees a flaw with his statement, I will switch my vote back to him...

Following again? With that as your reason?
Since when has lining up lynches been pro-town?
Anyone?

I would like to just point out that hewitt didn't take his vote off of ABR till (1) he realized no one was agreeing with him or (2) looking for an easier lynch.
CSL and hewitt ignoring each other combined with CSL remvoing his vote from hewitt looks like it was a possible buss trying to backtrack.
That's my theory. WIFOM all you may say but still looks suspicious.

*those looking for the short end:

CSL makes a hypocritacal post. Follows people onto BW's and his vote change off of Hewitt just didn't fly with me.

[farside22]

Just a note:

I sent a PM to the first person on the queue if he wishes to be the replacement mod for this game. If he says no I will give this game to CSL who understands that he will need to not just fill his spot but anyone else that needs to be replaced.

[farside22]

I cannot do it any longer, I CANNOT PLAY WITH THIS IDIOCY ANY LONGER. By idiocy I mean the constant OMGUS vote hopping, nonsensical posting, unhelpful nature that DLA, CSL, Ellibereth, and saberwolf seem so comfortable taking.

My God, lynch any of the four of them, at this point I really could not give two fucks.

There is actually is a viable reason for voting CSL, DLA or hewitt to me.
I'm just feeling CSL getting a free pass from others = suspect.
It's all in the votes. On a side note when we get a mod there needs to be a prod of players that haven't said much in the last few days.

[farside22]

I'm unsure if this is appropriate to post here, and my apologies if it isn't.

I PMed Lab Mafia a couple days ago letting him know I'd be willing to replace the guy that never posted, since you guys really need someone in that spot. I've been skimming the game since then. So, whoever does end up being the Mod, please PM me letting me know what's going on and if/when I can replace he-whose-name-starts-with-Y-and-has-yet-to-post.

~ KittyMo

dramonic is going to be the replacement mod for this game. It will just take a bit of time for him to edit the front page.

[farside22]

Oh that note. Everyone should PM dramonic what their role is so he can have a list of players and roles for his own knowledge.
And when you have a change dear mod please prod players you don't hear from.

[farside22]

Eh, I'd replace out, but it wouldn't do anyone any good, now will it?

The only way I'd get out of this game is if I

Unvote

and quite possibly

Vote: CSL

I had fun, but there are some kinks I need to work on, and it won't do in this game

I really want to hate you.

[farside22]

Huzzah! This game just improved exponentially!

We have a new mod! Definitely a plus!
KittyMo is replacing in! Always an improvement!
CSL is self voting! That may be the best vote he's ever cast!

I needed this post.

[farside22]

dammit, cant correct tag failures =_=

I fixed it. I can't help myself.

[farside22]

unvote:

I'm willing to hear from the replacement till I decide the next course of action for my vote.

[farside22]

Unvote

[farside22]

I don't wipe away what a player did that was scummy. I do however what to see a post from SC showing thoughts on the game and who he feels is scum and why.
On a side note: someone that self votes is typically scum in my eye. GL trying overcome that battle to SC.

[farside22]

Self voting is a null tell. There is no reason to condemn Serial for CSL's actions.

Since when? I don't know anyone that self votes late into day 1 when there is a BW on them but scum. If you would care to point out other games in which it was a town player that did this I would like to go personally smack them.

@saber: your win condition and according to the convo I read between you and morph means your supposed to try and play not do have ass stuff to win a bet.

[farside22]

Self voting is a null tell. There is no reason to condemn Serial for CSL's actions.

Since when? I don't know anyone that self votes late into day 1 when there is a BW on them but scum. If you would care to point out other games in which it was a town player that did this I would like to go personally smack them.

@saber: your win condition and according to the convo I read between you and morph means your supposed to try and play not do have ass stuff to win a bet.

I'd point you to the game where CSL did that as vanilla town on D1 when he was getting wagoned, but it is ongoing.

Was this a game you were in with him?

[farside22]

Unless there is another game in progress that has shotty and CSL in which CSL was lynched day one that I'm unaware that I found I go back to my question
Where has a townie ever voted themselves day 1? This time I want a game that is not currently ongoing so I can bring it up with quotes and such.

vote SC

This vote is serious as I looked through a game in progress and can not reference where I did not see the self vote that CSL did before.

[farside22]

Where has a townie ever voted themselves day 1?

Well farside, Scum esurio self-voted here. Scum CKD self-voted here. Scum Noramp self-voted on Day 1 here. Scum Cojin self-voted on Day 1 here.

I know scum do it all the time it's a great way to kill convo. I'm asking about townies that do it. It was stated that CSL did it recently as a VT in a game. I did not find the self vote that was talked about.

[farside22]

Eh, I'd replace out, but it wouldn't do anyone any good, now will it?

The only way I'd get out of this game is if I

Unvote

and quite possibly

Vote: CSL

I had fun, but there are some kinks I need to work on, and it won't do in this game

Here's your self vote. That wasn't too hard to find.

You're not helping and that link that shotty just showed makes me want to smack you.

[farside22]

*feels impressed*

unvote
vote: shotty

This is mostly in regards to the comment he makes about being most assured of CSL's alignment and DLA's alignment. Anyone that sure about a person just give's me scum vibes. He keeps wanting to defend CSL so I would look again and SC just if shotty turned up scum.
Also the lining up lynches and on top of that it irks me to see my rational comments made be put off as nothing but once ABR comes in to vote shotty is quick to follow along. *detects a bit of budding up*

[farside22]

Those links are nothing.

SABER'S BEST EXAMPLE

[/quote]


You know I've been told I can reduce the games you ask to go in to if I so desire. Don't press it any further.

[farside22]

Meh, I'm still keeping my vote on Saber. He's exhibited every scumtell in the book, far beyond the bounds of bad play. I played in a game recently with him, and while he was pretty bad...he wasn't THIS bad. I think we can distinguish the two games and say that he looks scummy anyway, but in games in which he actually is scum, he looks EXTREMELY scummy.

Why is it that whenever DLA did something scummy you kept pointing out a game he was lynched and was the doctor but knowing how badly saber plays and has been pointed out you still want to lynch him?

[farside22]

I just want to know one thing. When someone makes a comment like this.

Right pushing DLA is defending CSL. I just said I don't know his alignment or care, he's not the right play. His lynch will be info-less. Talking to you is pointless,

when DLA flips scum

lynching you next.

How are you not voting on them? Once again only scum know who is scum. He is saying when not if in this comment. As ABR said many a post ago. Cutting off the head of the snake is more profound.

[farside22]

farside - that's actually the kind of language tell that I hate. I'm sure I've said something similar, I often say 'blah is town' or 'blah is certainly scum'. If you are actually scum you can control that. Any decent player can be careful to say 'if they flip...' or 'we were right' not 'the town was right'. It's just easy to circumnavigate, so once the tell is common knowledge, it's pretty worthless. I wouldn't put much stock in that quote you posted at all, to be perfectly honest.

I have made the error as scum more often then not. However I brought the point up and he ignores it. Had he said blah I meant if or just admitted it as an error I would agree with you a bit about it possibly being an error. The fact he has ignored it twice after I brought it up catches my attention more.

[farside22]

I won't apologize for setting up lynches, it makes sense to say where you would like to go the next day in case you are killed, the drawback is it creates WIFOM, yes, but I still think I should put my thoughts out there. In sake of dealing with the current issues and among the outcry of "qq setting up lynches qq," I want to just move forward with the DLA lynch that I'm quite sure on and deal with the rest tomorrow. I'm not nearly 100% sure of my ABR read, but DLA I AM quite sure of.

Setting up lynches is so bad. IE if DLA is not lynched today and turns out that DLA may be town you are letting the scum know exactly who will be next for lynching and they will not kill that person. I'm just saying why lining up lynches is bad using DLA in this case.
Scum can use this too as a signal to let their scum buddies know who is an easy lynch day 2 in case the scum is lynched.

[farside22]

farside - that's actually the kind of language tell that I hate. I'm sure I've said something similar, I often say 'blah is town' or 'blah is certainly scum'. If you are actually scum you can control that. Any decent player can be careful to say 'if they flip...' or 'we were right' not 'the town was right'. It's just easy to circumnavigate, so once the tell is common knowledge, it's pretty worthless. I wouldn't put much stock in that quote you posted at all, to be perfectly honest.

I have made the error as scum more often then not. However I brought the point up and he ignores it. Had he said blah I meant if or just admitted it as an error I would agree with you a bit about it possibly being an error. The fact he has ignored it twice after I brought it up catches my attention more.

I ignore it because it's retarded, everyone uses different semantics. How is town me more likely to use if than when or whatever? Just because you make obvious semantics changes when you're scum doesn't mean others do the same. Please prove that I do this only as scum with links to my posts if you want to use this as some sort of logical evidence.

Using retarded is not something I appreciate being used. Secondly if I make that error as scum what is to tell me that others do not.
Finally I'm not going to search through thousands of games looking for this trip up. I can't recall the game in question as it was back a ways but if you have time to do research why not show me a game where you made a similar trip up and was town.

[farside22]

I won't apologize for setting up lynches, it makes sense to say where you would like to go the next day in case you are killed, the drawback is it creates WIFOM, yes, but I still think I should put my thoughts out there. In sake of dealing with the current issues and among the outcry of "qq setting up lynches qq," I want to just move forward with the DLA lynch that I'm quite sure on and deal with the rest tomorrow. I'm not nearly 100% sure of my ABR read, but DLA I AM quite sure of.

Setting up lynches is so bad. IE if DLA is not lynched today and turns out that DLA may be town you are letting the scum know exactly who will be next for lynching and they will not kill that person. I'm just saying why lining up lynches is bad using DLA in this case.
Scum can use this too as a signal to let their scum buddies know who is an easy lynch day 2 in case the scum is lynched.

How can you possibly know any of that? There are so many ifs, mays, and hypotheticals there I can't begin to imagine how you can conclusively state it.

The present has more impact than anything on a lynch, just because I say I would like to lynch X tomorrow doesn't mean it will happen, I'll probably be pushing it, but everyone will decide what to do with it when they see my facts the next day when I vote X and (re)post my case. They don't decide now that they have to lynch whoever and scum can't conclusively determine what the town will do the next day either, especially with a night-kill thrown into the mix that may irrevocably change parts of the case or the geography of the game.

Are you seriously telling me as scum you never looked at what people say in the game to know who is an easy lynch target for the next day and decide not to waste a NK on said player?

[farside22]

I won't apologize for setting up lynches, it makes sense to say where you would like to go the next day in case you are killed, the drawback is it creates WIFOM, yes, but I still think I should put my thoughts out there. In sake of dealing with the current issues and among the outcry of "qq setting up lynches qq," I want to just move forward with the DLA lynch that I'm quite sure on and deal with the rest tomorrow. I'm not nearly 100% sure of my ABR read, but DLA I AM quite sure of.

Setting up lynches is so bad. IE if DLA is not lynched today and turns out that DLA may be town you are letting the scum know exactly who will be next for lynching and they will not kill that person. I'm just saying why lining up lynches is bad using DLA in this case.
Scum can use this too as a signal to let their scum buddies know who is an easy lynch day 2 in case the scum is lynched.

How can you possibly know any of that? There are so many ifs, mays, and hypotheticals there I can't begin to imagine how you can conclusively state it.

The present has more impact than anything on a lynch, just because I say I would like to lynch X tomorrow doesn't mean it will happen, I'll probably be pushing it, but everyone will decide what to do with it when they see my facts the next day when I vote X and (re)post my case. They don't decide now that they have to lynch whoever and scum can't conclusively determine what the town will do the next day either, especially with a night-kill thrown into the mix that may irrevocably change parts of the case or the geography of the game.

Are you seriously telling me as scum you never looked at what people say in the game to know who is an easy lynch target for the next day and decide not to waste a NK on said player?

Why are they an easy lynch target because I said the day before I wanted to go after them?

Answering a question with a question now?

[farside22]

On a side note had you just said I have stated people as scum in that was as town and scum and it's a null tell half this discussion would never have taken place.

[farside22]

Why are they an easy lynch target because I said the day before I wanted to go after them?[/quote]

If you know that what it is that mafia does then why on earth are you asking me that question? Unless your mafia and it doesnt' matter what you say. Lining up lynches it anti-town.

Sorry, I really don't get this sentence... "If I had said I state people as scum in that was as town and scum" whaaaat? Please rephrase. =\

If you told me from the start that you make that mistype before as town and scum and said it was a null tell instead of making shitty comments half of this argument we had would have been avoided.

With that thought in mind do you always lash out in a shit way when people question your motives or are you always nasty and rude to people that question your motives?

[farside22]

First it seems you just want to ignore everything I pointed out or you not thinking what scum typically does. What part of this did you not understand?

Setting up lynches is so bad. IE if DLA is not lynched today and turns out that DLA may be town you are letting the scum know exactly who will be next for lynching and they will not kill that person. I'm just saying why lining up lynches is bad using DLA in this case.

You stated this yourself:

Of course I look at what people say to see who I want to NK

How is lining up lynches not relevent to scum motivations. If they know a person is willing to vote and who they want to lynch would it not bennifit them to keep both players alive in this case?

Also found this here and no one seemed to disagree with the statement:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=25

Setting up mislynches - Planning lynches for future days, without taking into account information that may become available. Should only be used as a scumtell with extreme care, because pro-town players who are suspicous of multiple player tend to state that they want to see them all lynched. Setting up mislynches - Planning lynches for future days, without taking into account information that may become available. Should only be used as a scumtell with extreme care, because pro-town players who are suspicous of multiple player tend to state that they want to see them all lynched.

Finally my question about your attitude is valid. Everything you have said to me has been catty or nasty remark attached to it. I'm wondering if it's scum motivated, a fact I'm female, or if you general make nasty comments to people for no reason.

[farside22]

I appologize that this will be a long post. I copied the quote instead of the number so I can get through things faster right now.
First things first. STTB states that ABR is DLA's scum buddy in this quote

I encourage everyone to

unvote vote DLA

. ABR is an obvious scum-buddy to DLA considering how much DLA was vacuumed to ABR's opinions and as newb-scum didn't know any better to hide all the blatant buddying big enough to choke a horse.

And this quote:

I could go for a DLA lynch today or tomorrow, if we lynched hewitt today and he flipped town I would be 100% behind a DLA lynch day two.

first did you answer the question of how hewitt's flip determines DLA?
Second did lining up lynches not become scummy?

Who pushed Hewitt's lynch the hardest? ABR and DLA? Last time I checked pushing mislynches was bad? Hewitt said the same thing in 278. Why aren't you busting his balls?

However when ABR comes on he switches his vote over here:

Ridiculous, fine. DLA tomorrow.

unvote vote CSL

So if ABR is scum with DLA why is sttb following ABR's vote and logic here?

Next up I have a theory about scum. I think when I see people who make as many catty comments has STTB does by down playing what another person says it makes me start to wonder is he doing this for any town reason?
I can see scum using comments to down play another player so that no one will want to listen to their comments and he can sweep it away as someone he finds "moronic"
A list of comments he's made towards mostly me with one towards DLA.

CSL will always be CSL, expecting pro-town behavior from him is moronic, look for pro-town motivation it's the best you will get.

So you allow people to just follow others and accept it because it's there meta?
Yet some people so far has pointed out that DLA is typically this way as well what makes him different?

It has nothing to do with meta, quit misrepping. It's fucking common sense, not everyone can possibly post original material against a lynchee, if this isn't true throughout the game it is definitely true on D1 when we have nothing to work with..

Right pushing DLA is defending CSL. I just said I don't know his alignment or care, he's not the right play. His lynch will be info-less. Talking to you is pointless, when DLA flips scum lynching you next.

Good response here, nothing even resembling a logical case based on my posts or scum-tells just more "YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME YOU MUST BE SCUM!" from DLA. Your points are fluff nothings.

I ignore it because it's retarded, everyone uses different semantics

Of course I look at what people say to see who I want to NK, thanks captain obvious

I found all these just within today. Someone who likes to make snide comments and downplay someone's comments just comes off scummy> it's hard to explain on paper but it's seeing someone in middle school who thinks that being a bully to others will have people follow them so they don't get beat up too.
My scum theory on this and it's just a theory is by down playing another player who is making a case he can make it seem as if they are useless and all he has to do is convince others how useless that person is by repeately calling them names.

Finally there is this little gem in which I'm making my case clear on CSL

Really? Please tell me what other points you have on CSL, you sure as hell never mention them.
which I did plenty of time throught the day. I had to restate everything I said which got ignored.

[farside22]

So you don't like me or the way I play and you don't like the comments I made towards you so I must be scum? Way to be personally invested. This is the latest in a line of attempts to maintain a wagon that is falling apart at the seams, Farside has lost out on her last real attempt at a legitimate scum-tell so now she turns to this.

It's a theory I have. To me it makes sense. Why would someone make nasty and degrading comment towards a player based on what they say about a case? Nothing you said was as a defence except in some cases in more ways it's a way to down play a players intellinge with the hope that no other townie listens to them.
Also I pointed out the flip flop with DLA, players missing and with a mod missing in action did you really think that a deadline would be enforced?

[farside22]

The summary: CSL Bandwagons and is Hypocritical. Being hypocritical there is a so-so secondary reason, the real reason for the vote is CSL's bandwagon voting. The same thing I said was the only reason for Farside's vote on CSL. This is supposedly all the posts Farside had on CSL, where are all the other reasons she keeps mentioning? I don't see them. If there is something else please give it to me one more time because I missed it.

Someone who follows and makes hypocrical comments = scum.
His backtracking vote is exactly what I feel as ABR said. Oh shit I got caught abort must find another vote tactic.
My point it wasnt' just one vote it was his overall play.
Just as you feel DLA and his play and votes are scummy. I feel that way about CSL.

Also in regards to this comment:

How the fuck are you not preying on a weak player by jumping on the CSL wagon? If you flip CSL town, mark my words no one will forgot how hard you defended a "weaker player" DLA with one hand while lynching the same with the other.

You make it seem I did nothing but defend DLA. But the only time I defend him was in one post where I reference his scum list and I answered how I felt here about him in which you asked me my view.

I need to read when everything happened as you say it happened.
I'm getting the anti-town but not scum vibe from DLA that I can't shake at this moment. First I thought scum based on poor comments and bad logic.
Now it's a confused person who I see some points that may be valid but when he can't confirm if someone caught onto his thinking it just leaves me confused about him.

If your talking about my question about when people want to lynch DLA over another player and using Meta for an excuse to not lynch a player then yes I find it questionable.

[farside22]

So you don't like me or the way I play and you don't like the comments I made towards you so I must be scum? Way to be personally invested. This is the latest in a line of attempts to maintain a wagon that is falling apart at the seams, Farside has lost out on her last real attempt at a legitimate scum-tell so now she turns to this.

It's a theory I have. To me it makes sense. Why would someone make nasty and degrading comment towards a player based on what they say about a case? Nothing you said was as a defence except in some cases in more ways it's a way to down play a players intellinge with the hope that no other townie listens to them.
Also I pointed out the flip flop with DLA, players missing and with a mod missing in action did you really think that a deadline would be enforced?

I flip-flopped on DLA? Where? When I moved my vote to CSL? My view didn't change, but a lynch on DLA at that point didn't seem plausible.

It's psychological, how do you possibly know what I hope for? It encourages them to double-check their thinking and examine the situation in a new way, delivering it nicely and politely is likely to be ignored, throw in a mean word and suddenly their all up in arms, works pretty well case and point right here. I sincerely doubt I could convince anyone that someone I don't even know is intellectually incapable of playing mafia. In the end it's their posts that are considered, I won't doubt sound logic from someone just because they made some bad cases in the past that were attacked by me or someone else.

I had no idea if the deadline would be enforced, I've never been in this situation. =\

Giving up a vote and flipping back on DLA. I don't question your drive onto DLA it's your vote on CSL when you placed it that I question

As for the psychological aspects well it's cynical but so far undisputed. When a dominate personality enters into a group and demoralizes another person most of society will follow suit as they don't not wish to be the recipient of said verbal onslaught
As for using it to wake up a person for making a dumb comment there was only one thing I agreed with you that I missed that was indeed dumb the rest just looks to me like demoralizing my comments.
Now how does RL psychological work in favor of scum in this case. Showing a player as inept you can just use this as a blocker for any case against you as scum and show how their theory was dumb throughout the game and why players should not listen to the player.
Again this is all just in theory from a psychological point but I could see it used in this manner.

[farside22]

Actually it's the "when" comment and the lining up lynches that you did sttb that makes you seem scummy to me.
Add to the fact that when you call someone scum and follow them after arguing for pages about not wanting to vote for the person in question.
The difference you might ask is that I commented about the lining up of the lynches and your mistype first which rang my scumdar.
All the rest of what I have is theory.

[farside22]

Farside and SC are pushing a case on Shotty based on mostly ethereal evidence.

1) Lining up lynches

I don't agree this is a scumtell in this situation.

2) Going for easy targets

This is the only valid argument against him. Shotty, why are you going for easy targets? DLA can be lynched whenever. Now is not the time, trust me.

3) Calling me a scumbuddy of DLA, and changing his mind

I don't think it was as far-fetched as that. Seems plausible considering it was still early in the day, and now he changed his mind. Good players change their mind a lot, it's part of recognizing and fixing your mistakes.

1. Why not? What is your theory on those who line up lynches and what it means for town vs scum
2. no issue
3. He stated twice he felt that way and when he changes his mind it's like something that just comes out of the blue. Hell he says I'm defending DLA and when DLA flips scum I will be next as his scum partner. So what is anyone that defends DLA his scum partner?

[farside22]

farside - that's actually the kind of language tell that I hate. I'm sure I've said something similar, I often say 'blah is town' or 'blah is certainly scum'. If you are actually scum you can control that. Any decent player can be careful to say 'if they flip...' or 'we were right' not 'the town was right'. It's just easy to circumnavigate, so once the tell is common knowledge, it's pretty worthless. I wouldn't put much stock in that quote you posted at all, to be perfectly honest.

Thank you for some common sense. Like I said, Farside is more concerned with what looks scummy, I don't have any idea if that's due to alignment or just the way she plays.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be an insult. If something looks scummy and it sounds scummy doesn't it make it scummy?

[farside22]

Look, I have no experience in conflict management or whatever, but I'm going to say this: you guys need to make up. Farside, quit acting like a victim and calling what Shotty says "degrading", and flipping out over some shit and accusing this person almost twice your junior of sexism. Shotty, you could be more careful with your choice of words if you tried. I know you were annoyed. There are situations in life where you don't want to look annoyed even if you are. And this is a game, guys, not your personal war against people who are incompatible with you. This is my poor attempt at reconciliation for what it's worth. I just want to catch scum.

Someone who uses moron, saying a person has no common sense, saying that a person's post has nothing resembling a logical case or retarded is degrading; to say otherwise is BS. If he continues calling someone over and over a pointless moron then yes it is to make a person look less then stellar. Are you saying that someone who uses these terms are not trying to degrade a player?
I called him sexist as I'm the only one he continues making those comments to. What would you think being the only female in the game who gets all the words listed to every comment you make?
I have seen players lash out when they don't have a comeback to make to an accusation and it turns out they are scum. Sensfan is a perfect example of a player who does this. It's why my vote hasn't changed at this point.
After reading the games he posted I never saw him lash out at another player in anything he linked except once as scum.

As for the rest I don't know how you can get a town read on someone like this. His only aggression has been towards DLA and god forbid if someone says something in defense. He only voted CSL because he thought it was deadline (i guess is what he is trying to say) but when asked further on this deadline vote he can't come back with an actual reason for the change till new players show up. How much sense does that make?

Basically I've been told lining up lynches is a null tell. People who use the term "when" instead of "if" is a null tell and a few people defending his actions as nothing more then null tell's.
Now I point out his reversal of ABR with DLA scum partner and it's okay too.
I mean really is everything he do going to be defended by ABR?

[farside22]

Farside, I'm sorry on Shotty's behalf. Now check this out:

Yeah, look, Elli just rained on my parade pretty damn hard to be honest... Are the mafia daytalkers in this game? I wouldn't put it past you to have organised that just to put me in my place...

Scummy as hell. Clergyman, you've been stroking my e-dick all game praising me as town and talented, and here you accuse me of being scum with Ellibereth. For your information, there is no day-talking in this setup, but your quick, careless turnaround is proof that you're a scumbag mascaraing in sheep's clothing.

Unvote, vote clergyman

Farside, you have to choose. Am I right about him, or are you going to defend SC?

My thought on sttb has you with him as scum. Is this terrible? It is when SC says he believe you to be town. Then I have this secret thought that believe ABR could be bussing his scum partner to look town while your scum buddy calls you town using meta.

I hope my circular logic has not hurt people's head but that just means in short I would voted for sttb or SC to prove this theory.
Why not ABR? (I can see this question being asked)
He makes me laugh.

Unvote
vote SC

[farside22]

Kikuchiyo is female, farside. She was my scummate in the last game with Shotty, Konowa and Netopalis.

kikuchiyo hasn't said much of anything this game. It's easy to forget her being in the game. (tries to refrain from making catty comment)

[farside22]

btw I love the shoes but they are not practical at all.

[farside22]

Elibereth: You're a girl until you earn the right to have a username that confuses your physical gender with your preferred presented gender.

now, now don't quibble because he corrected you about his gender. No need to for this comment in the least.

[farside22]

DLA: your whole case is pretty BS.

Hi pot,
Yo pot! This is kettle man. WTF are you thinking?

[farside22]

It's days like this that I think there needs to be more open games that have vig's.

[farside22]

Wasn't neto's little shoe comment putting the game off topic?

[farside22]

Wasn't neto's little shoe comment putting the game off topic?

Did I also not FoS him for it?

Farside: On a less anti-town scale in comparison to me, I'd say you've also followed ABR around for the most part. Is that an accurate observation?

No. Only vote I followed ABR on was on SC but I made the main case on CSL and vote there first. My opinion on CSL hasn't changed I still think the vote and comment he made when voting for himself was scum motivatived.

[farside22]

In that case, would you assume that ABR may be playing on your emotions towards the case in an effort to gain a mislynch? What are your thoughts towards the other BWs you supported? What about them is no longer worth chasing? [I don't want to hear why SC is more scummy, I wanna hear how the others don't amount up to SC, or in otherwords, how are they less scummy, and why.]

My votes have been thus:
Random vote ABR - mostly this was a test reaction to see how ABR responded.
Voted DLA: OMGUS vote, misrep's post I made and call's it a BW vote saying I'm voting on him because of pressure on me. All was disputed. More OMGUS votes. There is times I see he is trying to make a point and comment about it whether I'm reading it correctly but it gets ignored.
I'm inbetween thinking anti-town, scum or just a confused person
Voted: CSL - following BW, hypocrisy comments, his unvote and then revote of hewit and finally the self vote all still ranges high on my scum list
votes sttb - I don't care that it's a believe this typo or not saying when doesn't seem like something a town person would say in my view. Using critism's to deflect questions, Also when I see someone not really reading the game it bugs me. I made many points about CSL that he ignored and seemed to comment that I was making it a big deal on one vote when it was more. Comments about meta on CSL but doesnt' feel the meta should be used with DLA.
It's those little things that bother me. Someone defending a person doing the exact same thing another player calling it meta then blowing up when you catch that both can be called meta and I see this as a possible connection between 2 players.
It's why I feel more strongly on sttb or csl then DLA at the momment.

[farside22]

In that case, would you assume that ABR may be playing on your emotions towards the case in an effort to gain a mislynch?

He could be. But as stated above I have sound reasoning for my votes.

[farside22]

In any case, self voting is not a scumtell. Ever. I would say it more often than not is a townsperson acting stupid. I see nothing which indicates SC as scum. It seems that we should be lynching Netopalis, ABR, Shotty or Farside.

Saying it is never a scum tell is a fallicy. You can say it's a null tell but most of the people I know that self vote as town are either fustrated or bored (aka saber). Other then that the other 90% is scum.
Why am I on this list?

I think that if we lynch from the pairs of those opposed to one another that we would either hit scum, or reveal that the other player is scum, no? But I guess that circles back to the discussion on setting up lynches.

What pair? I'm really confused by this statement.

Right now I am leaning towards Netopalis. Mainly because he is eerily reminding me of the last game we shared.

How about a link to said game

[farside22]

He picked the defeatist route without even defending himself. I mean seriously I read the game that is currently going on and I get the impression he goes out fighting when town over scum just based on meta.
Now just for the game voting for oneself without defending yourself can be looked at as a null but I don't know anyone I can think of who replaces out unless they are sick of mafia. He's still playing other games just fine.

[farside22]

Defeatist =/= scummy. It also isn't similar to when he was defeated as scum and was upbeat, jovially said that they got him and cheered on his team.

When he does it in this game, that's clearly not his mood, he's downbeat and almost apologetic at his own play.

And I don't understand this bit at all -

Now just for the game voting for oneself without defending yourself can be looked at as a null

but I don't know anyone I can think of who replaces out unless they are sick of mafia. He's still playing other games just fine.

He was forcibly replaced out... The mod kicked him out of the game because self-voting was essentially against the rules (not playing to your win con).

So instead of asking to replace out first he vote himself? I'm really tired of seeing sttb, now neto excusing CSL based on meta. Player does something and is scummy but typically acts scummy doesn't mean he is not scum.
He never came on to defend himself once. Nothing, zip, zero, nothing, nada. So yes being a defeatist is scummy. If he said something like I'm sorry my play is detrimental and wish to be replaced or something to that effect I wouldn't not even argue about his comments with his self vote.

[farside22]

No...I'm not saying that if CSL weren't here, we shouldn't lynch CSL...I'm saying that we should examine SC's actions as a far better predictor, because we know that CSL has a history of being lynched (either correctly or incorrectly) on day 1 for this sort of play.

So you wipe clean a slate from a player always when they replace or does it matter who they replace?

[farside22]

I"m going to talk to SC just about what he posted then. There is a few things I found questionable about what was said so far.

ABR - do you prefer ABR or Albert? I remember you had a strong preference for one over the other but I can't remember which.

Albert is absolutely town by the way. He's scummy, tunnelling, bullying the town awful yet brilliant, provoking OMGUS and replacement in his two primary victims/suspects and most importantly of all he's enjoying this game far too much to be scum.

Has your view changed now that ABR is going after you as he is?


Why are you uncertain about hewitt? What in your read leads to this uncertainity

On one post you criticize neto for talking about policy lynches but then mention it yourself. What is the difference between someone suggesting it without using those words and actually saying it?


In your post against sttb you call him out for going after an easy target. With DLA and saber why would he ignore kik or even CSL then as neither have been stellar in this game.

i don't know or really see a case you present on neto. all i read was this

Neto is also a good chance of flipping scum. He's been voting the same lynchbait targets as would be expected. Suggested a policy lynch without having the balls to actually say lets policy lynch someone, which is a scumtell in my eyes. He did have the balls to vote Albert though, which redeems him slightly, because bringing blue-eyed wrath upon oneself isn't always the best option.

I looked into Neto's votes. He voted toro during the RVS and then eli who yourself said was scummy. So how is he voting the same lynchbait targets as you said in the first line?
You had the comment about Neto being someone you would vote but I think it's just following Albert's logic

Final comment: You showed 4 or 5 people as town that self voted. My statment about self votes as town was ignored. Can you point to me a player that was town that did not self vote in anger or that was saberwolf?
Would you disagree that statistically speaking a player that self votes is 90% more likely to be scum?

[farside22]

I like how you deftly ignore all the comments ABR made towards me in this manner yet apply it quite graciously to Shotty.

I did say something to Albert when he was saying somethings to DLA that were not necessary. Quote these comments for me.

as for everything that SC stated I feel torn and something that just niggles in the back of my head. All get a better read later and figure it out what it is that is bothering me.

ABR I'm not getting your case on Neto but don't tell me I'll go look back at him and see what I read on him and give my views.
I almost want to go to vote for hewitt. Damn this game I see too many people that look to have connections and my problems is that it all comes back to CSL.

[farside22]

Ugh, interrupted.
Will continue this in a sec with content (cases);
towns came first because they were easier to write and I operate a lot by process of elimination.]

Reading is tech, Neto.
Will come in a couple of hours when I'm alone again.

Why vote now? Why not wait till the read is complete?

[farside22]

Since this isn't closed yet just a few things I want to say

Farside and Shotty both took their time to look at you, and they said they saw where I was coming from. Ojanen evidently thought you were scummy on her own as well.

this is false. I never said anything about neto. Whatever he flips I said I would look into it but didn't see a case.

@saber: your win condition and according to the convo I read between you and morph means your supposed to try and play not do have ass stuff to win a bet.

What was this referencing to exactly?

Morph and saber have a bet going on. It's a long story but in short saber had to sign up for a lot of games and some of his self votes are so he can get out of games faster.

Actually, KittyMo replaced that guy who hasn't said a single thing all game and hasn't caught up, apparently. That surely has to be one of the scummiest slots in the game.

Just saying.

Why to line up a lynch. Did you note that KittyMo mentioned computer problems and if you look she said it in all her games.

*Ugh I didn't even get a chance to read up on Neto in this case.

[farside22]

Anyway, whatever, it would be nice to hear what farside22, Shotty, Ojanen and Kittymo have to say. Kiku, when will you stop lurking?

Vote Netopalis

weekends are always a nightmare for me but I will do my best to get to this today after I get through lunch.

[farside22]

I see that you have still not addressed why you were going to hammer hewitt without reasoning, but I guess it's impossible for you to answer that without claiming scum.

I would like to see an answer to this.

[farside22]

I'm locking the thread. Mod just PM me when your ready to have it unlocked or if you get mod powers then you can do it yourself at that point.

[farside22]

opened per request

[farside22]

I need to get some quotes and thoughts from this game which is in the works today. Hopefully when I get home I can get a case on 2 of the people I had issue with yesterday
IE: SC and shotty

[farside22]

Okay there was a lot more then I expected to find. I don't want to post every single post that Neto did that I sense a scum buddy he is trying to protect in my read
First we have DLA:

No, I'm afraid not. I haven't researched his meta otherwise, all I know is that as town he tends to make logical leaps which aren't necessarily warranted.

I also don't like Darklight's play in this game, but I know from a previous game with him that he acts extremely, extremely scummily as town.

Mod: Prod on Toro to go with the prod on Yarmond?

DLA...ugh. I know that last time we lynched him for play like this and he was the doc, but his play is just so...terrible...ugh.

I will vote DLA if the vote count shows that it would not put him in the danger zone.

Essentlally, I find that the whole "lynch me if you want" mentality is used by scum primarily. Due to the fact that scum's goal is survival, it is a way for them to appear town by making it look like they're playing against their goal - or for the town one. Overall, I really don't like his posts - even given that I played with him before and I posted the stuff about his meta.

Neto said all this. Most of this is meta talk and then he talk about voting for him but never does.

As for my not arguing strongly on DLA, that's honestly been because I have prior experience with him and I don't feel that my reads are that accurate for that reason. I'm going to be a lot more likely to find failtown than I will be to find scum within his posts because I framed him in the newbie game that we played. Therefore, I prefer to let those who are more neutral in regards to him lead the way. I'm happy to lynch him, of course - I just don't feel qualified to add a lot to this discussion.

He (Neto) has one defense after another on DLA

Next up CSL:

He talks alot about CSL meta here as well and when CSL gets replaced he uses that to defend CSL's action as well.
Including this little shot:

Honestly, I really think he should be limited until he learns to play a bit better, based on the hardship that he puts on mods - either he will derail the game day 1 or he will need to be replaced. That's neither here nor there, though.

I wipe the replacement's slate clean for acts done by idiots. Fumbling about with bad logic that could be the result of idiocy is not a scumtell and is not transferrable. Actual scummy acts made by intelligent people do, however, create a burden on the replacement - but even then, you can't expect a replacement to know and understand what was going through the mind of the person who he replaced.

Finally, I feel kinda bad about lynching replacements immediately after they replace in. It seems to me that if we were going to lynch CSL regardless of what his replacement was going to say, we should have saved SC the trouble of replacing in and having to reread all of this, and saved the mod the trouble of finding yet another replacement in a game that already needed a ton of them. Therefore, I think that lynching SC today would also be ethically wrong, unless we find him scummy independent of CSL's acts.

He talks about the slackers but the only one's he actual votes is elibeth or saberwolf. He never even mentions Shotty once at all during that whole case.

For now I'm thinking Neto might have been protection DLA using meta defense but when he doesn't excuse saber for his meta for me that just pushes DLA over the edge as a scum buddy with DLA.

Vote: DLA

SC would be also fall under this with the same defense from Neto toward CSL.

[farside22]

Farside, why vote DLA > SC when Neto meta-defending applies to both?
You said you were looking at Shotty, did you find DLA scummier than him or have you not looked at him yet?

And you still haven't spelled my name right once I think.
(Just use Elli)

Sorry I'm terrible with names unless I put it on my notebook when typing things
I didn't see anything, zip, zero, nada from neto about shotty.
Something is niggling about that so for now I'm going with the main two I saw that neto just gave excuses for one was DLA and the other CSL. Frankly either would be part of my vote for the same reason. As I said at the end Neto mentioned many of the flakes, crazy, spastic players but his only vote was you, saber or ABR even though there were great cases on both CSL and DLA.

[farside22]

I also don't think that Neto would so actively meta-defend both of the other two scum...

I'm weighing this a bit more on DLA in respect because I brought up saber and CSL and asked question about their meta and he just kept bring up DLA as a nurse in one game and how scummy he was in that game. I think that main point is why my vote landed on DLA.

[farside22]

Shotty and Neto were avoiding each other Day 1 IMO.
Shotty didn't even mention Neto until Albert started pushing
And then he put some crap up like:

ABR where did you go? I need you to talk about Neto.

I need to reread Neto and someone else

Yeah but SC started a case on shotty which is why I have pause on that. If I think of of DLA or SC scum based on neto defense then I have to wonder about shotty with SC trying to get him lynched.

[farside22]

Farside: Should we lynch Shotty before DLA/Serial?

This is all theory mind you.
If DLA is scum this makes shotty look less scum. We lynch serial and serial is scum then shotty has a lot of explanation on his desire to get DLA lynched over SC.
Both of the lynches give in formation on shotty. I just keep coming back to the neto defense and how strong he was on it. I go back to SC who fights on shotty after shotty defending CSL and there is that pit in my stomach that wonders more about it.
I think I want to read all 3 of these guys again.
I think my biggest problem with the shotty scum is that SC pushed it but ABR didn't want to get involved. I'm not sure why and it bothers me a lot.

Honestly kiku hammering scum doesn't bother me. Him talking (her? sorry I'm tired and can't think about gender) and looking at those not on the neto lynch isn't scummy per se as it's valid to think scum wasn't on the wagon. But yes it does give the pause that SC is talking. I don't see this as scummie because I'm not basing my vote and comments just on who was on Neto wagon and who wasn't.

@scigatt: *tries to put this politely* how did you find shotty's post had an attitude in it?

Ojanen:
Neto goes out on a slight limb to meta-defend DLA early, then on goes to pains on how to change that stance to attacking him.

Post post how you saw Neto was attacking DLA?

[farside22]

@farside - Do you think kiku deserves to be considered to be on the wagon? Do you think there's any hint of opportunism to pushing yourself onto an inevitable wagon and then claiming the next day that the best place to hunt scum is the area where you are not?

That was what gives me pause is that theory because yes I can see it as a scum gambit and wouldn't be surprised of it.
Again though it's not something I base my vote on it's a tool and if all kiku said was you were not on voting for scum therefore you are scum I would be saying try hard to her.

@SC I disagree with post 1027. There is different type of players you have to account for when you talk like this. Either a player (scum) doesn't want to lynch their scum partner and keep an advantage of numbers or they want be part of the wagon to look town to give them a shot. It's really an either or situation in my mind.

All in all I don't give SC a free pass I will point out he was the first to really bring shotty into a scum light where as shotty defended CSL (again just gives me pause and thoughts). SC did bring up neto in his intial read so it's either a ploy by scum trying to look town by bussing or town reading things and finding scum.
I'm torn with SC in comparison to CSL. Neto defending SC as I said can be either or situation but looking at one defending while the other is accusing it's a hard thing to swallow a scum pair there. Too much WIFOM starts to come to my head which doesnt' help.
I still see neto had not attacking DLA at all.

[farside22]

Ugh I just thought about something I should not have.......

unvote:

I'm going to go crazy this game I just know it.

[farside22]

*mutters to self about not wanting to throttle DLA*
*mutters about ABR*
*starts to lose mind over the WIFOM*

[farside22]

*mutters to self about not wanting to throttle DLA*
*mutters about ABR*
*starts to lose mind over the WIFOM*

Would you be up to ignoring all that crap and gp after Shotty?

Let me get on this read tomorrow. I will have tons of time tomorrow for a read up on shotty. I need to prepare myself not to be taken over my some of his attitude early on.

[farside22]

Based on my read of what ABR left and without giving any clues to the scum what I feel I found
Based on ABR's own scum list and comments right now.

FOS: SC

FOS: kiku

I have to agree that post is a big load I don't like how you go off of your vote when SC pressures you right now.

[farside22]

I have to agree that post is a big load I don't like how you go off of your vote when SC pressures you right now.

What vote? What's a "load"?

Sorry I thought you had voted SC orignally. Blame lack of sleep and waking up at the crack of dawn to bake cookies.

I just think reading up on somethings there is a more valid case on SC then shotty.
Although shotty and neto ignoring each other really bugs me and I really wish I could pick ABR's mind on why he completely ignored the case on shotty.

[farside22]

I'm going with my gut on this one and based on the interaction between Neto and CSL/SC yesterday.

vote: SC

I will have a bigger more elaborate reason and post on this shortly.

[farside22]

Alright a lot of the begining is neto talking about DLA and again I go back and say that all that defense on DLA looks scummy in retrospect.
However this case is on SC and Neto's comments

First neto agree's with me about using meta but he continues to use it to defends CSL

Seriously if I'm scum and I know someone knows my play style I would so use that to my advantage.

QFT. Fixed grammar, but QFT.

First using the replacement defense:

No...I'm not saying that if CSL weren't here, we shouldn't lynch CSL...I'm saying that we should examine SC's actions as a far better predictor, because we know that CSL has a history of being lynched (either correctly or incorrectly) on day 1 for this sort of play.

Using CSL's logic and action as normally bad and buddying up to him

I wipe the replacement's slate clean for acts done by idiots. Fumbling about with bad logic that could be the result of idiocy is not a scumtell and is not transferrable. Actual scummy acts made by intelligent people do, however, create a burden on the replacement - but even then, you can't expect a replacement to know and understand what was going through the mind of the person who he replaced.

Finally, I feel kinda bad about lynching replacements immediately after they replace in. It seems to me that if we were going to lynch CSL regardless of what his replacement was going to say, we should have saved SC the trouble of replacing in and having to reread all of this, and saved the mod the trouble of finding yet another replacement in a game that already needed a ton of them.

more meta talk on CSL:

Given CSL's record (In 84% of his games, he's been either lynched D1 or has replaced out), is it really appropriate to transfer his acts over to SC as you automatically did?

So even if he's scum it's gives no leads defense.

Oh, and let me go ahead and respond to the CS thing while I'm at it...I guess I have been a bit vociferous, but it's mainly because I've been in 4 games with CSL and I was worse off in all of them for it. In one, I was scum with him and he claimed. In 2 of the others, we mislynched him D1. In the fourth, he replaced out. Based on that, I wanted to avoid a mislynch today because I know how easy it can be to just lynch him and get it over with. .

Let me elaborate a bit more:

The argument is that SC is scummy because CSL was scummy.

My statistic shows that CSL will be found scummy whether or not he is scum-aligned.

Therefore, CSL's scumminess is not a good predictor of scumminess.

Therefore, SC should be evaluated without CSL's posts taken into account.

tl'dr

Over and over neto uses CSL's meta as a bad player to try and get SC off the hook.
He defends CSL's action (which I acknowledge shotty did as well)

[farside22]

There is no way that shotty is mason. What claim are you really expecting eli?
I was really thinking that shotty and SC scum together but I wanted SC's lynch as my back up.
I had the SC/Shotty with a chance of DLA as my top 3.
SC's flip I felt was going to give more to me as I knew see ABR'S reaction
1. SC was not mason
2. the shotty defending SC (CSL) starts to take perspective.

If shotty flips scum this still makes SC look like scum in my book based on Shotty's comments early in the game and clears DLA.

unvote:
vote shotty

I was concerned that shotty was mason based on the fact that ABR ignored that case so their went that theory out the door.

[farside22]

Zzz farside

I hate it when people are like whether this person flips town or scum I'm going to use it as evidence against you.

There's no real down side to outing the last mason, just that the scum have a choice of either mason to kill. I doubt he'll try it.

Seriously?
Okay lets do the math. Neto protected CSL and if shotty is scum who defended CSL isn't it more likely then not that they were protecting their scum partner?

People's action (scum especially) are good clues to scum partners. If you say this logic is false I will go right back to voting for you.

[farside22]

Ah - I think I see the failure in communication.

Obviously cases that say if blah flips scum you're likely scum or if blah is innocent you're likely scum are fine individually - it's when there's a case

no matter whether the person is town or scum

that I don't like it.

That wasn't what I was saying but yeah there you go.

As for the mason (the last one that is not claimed in the game) I think it should go unclaimed and I have a really good reason why that I would like not to say.

[farside22]

Yes, getting a touch ahead of ourselves.

Without talking specifics about your earlier play - was there an identifyable reason your play changed so dramatically?

Why so curious?

Farside: Unclaimed today, Unclaimed tomorrow, or what?

Unclaimed today. Maybe even tomorrow.
I don't see a reason for the mason to claim right now. With 1 mafia and 1 mason out of the game and after shotty's lynch (if he's mafia) then the town is ahead and I would like to use the last mason out there unclaimed.
If shotty is mafia like I believe then this leaves us most likely another mason down (kik) with 1 mafia, 1 mason and 6 vt's in the game tomorrow.
If we mislynch and the last mafia doesn't know who the mason it then there is a higher chance we can have a mason live to the next day.
Day 4 then could be 1 mafia, 1 mason and 4vt's. This may be the day to do a claim then. You have 1 garenteed townie fighting 5 players.
Although I would have to not have the mason claim unless he/she is about to be lynched or if we reach lylo with the hope it is 1 mafia left at that point.

[farside22]

If someone can conflict with kikuchiyo's claim then please claim NOW.

Are you trying to out the last unclaimed mason after my reason on why this is bad?

[farside22]

I think DLA is saying: "If kiku is not a mason, then one of the masons should counterclaim." I agree with him. If someone wants to counterclaim me they should do it now. If, for some reason I am alive tomorrow and someone attempts to counter me then, they should be autolynched.

Exactly

Sorry I misunderstood

[farside22]

It's not a policy lynch if he's genuinely scummy. That sort of posting pattern isn't lurking, it's actively not posting. He's probably scum.

meh I go thru more then just not posting it's going to be based on game play too

[farside22]

Good deal, glad to be out of this game. Lynch Kiku tommorrow kthx.

ummmm I think someone is not reading the game here.

[farside22]

Shotty: Why do you sign up for a game if you are not reading? I am a mason. You have had plenty of oppurtunity shift focus off of you in the last few pages. Thanks for nothing if you are town.

Agree ^

[farside22]

Can we please lynch scum eeerrr I mean shotty since he hasn't come back to defend or comment about the fact that Kik claimed mason.
If there was anything town in his last post I failed to notice it.

[farside22]

Didn't even realize.
Unoffical vote count:

Shotty (6): Kikuchiyo, DarkLightA, SC, Farside, Scigatt, Ellibereth
Kikuchiyo (1): SttB

Not Voting (3): Kise, hewitt, Ojanen

[farside22]

I'm having trouble believe shotty town. I put lots of thoughts and who I think is scum if I saw twilight going on and I'm town. His no response and the fact he is saying kik is scum after the claim from kik is just another niche.
If shotty for god knows what reason is town and did nothing like this I would look at oj as I didn't like his vote on kik earlier or his reason's.
kise is just blah with potential scum vibes.

[farside22]

Ugh. I can't handle the waiting. Where's dramonic??

I sent him a PM. I will give him 1 more day then start looking for a replacement mod.

[farside22]

Farside, why didn't you like my reasons for voting kiku when you also FoSsed her and said a her post was a big load a little before I voted her?

I FOS'ed her because I thought she had voted for SC then backed off.
I thought the big load was included in my thought of her backing off of SC as well. I was wrong on my thought process.

[farside22]

unlocked per mod request

[farside22]

I have just one question and when I feel a bit better I will get more thought into this game.
Ojanen: Why did you not read the game yesterday (game day) before your vote and comments you made?

[farside22]

Ojanen: Why did you not read the game yesterday (game day) before your vote and comments you made?

I have no idea what you mean.
I read the whole game already before my first big content post upon replacing D1.
After catching Neto I wanted to reread parts of the game again, which was delayed several times - I was on unexpectedly seriously limited access practically from 13th to 30th of December (traveling to/in Asia and back and working hard+computer problems), I still contributed but it left me always with too little time to reread to my contention. I reread the parts I thought were relevant to my vote before casting it though. During N2 I returned home and did all the rereading I wanted.
.

Your post day 2 vs day 3 seem completely opposite. It's seems reading between the 2 you read the game more in your last post then day 2 where I felt you were just following what others were saying.

[farside22]

Hmm, maybe that came out to too strong to farside. Surely the tone in my posts after the second reread and being out of limited access is different, but it doesn't mean I hadn't read the complete game already before.

I would really have to reread it I just remember my feelings at the end of the day about your suspicion on kik and your sudden switch. It just felt off.
It could be jet lag but I felt the need to question you further because of it.
I still need to do a read but right now this illness (I would normally call it a flu but TMI in my head says just leave the rest alone) is kicking my ass and the fact I'm stable at work without falling down is a true testiment of willpower.

[farside22]

Things that bother me about Ojanen:

I am in Mongolia with varying access until 28th December.
Will get a post up, but likely not for the couple next days.

I remember thinking kiku looked like an viable scumpartner candidate for Neto while reading the thread. In fact that was mostly what I expressed wanting to elaborate on before the night and before kiku hammered. The hammer doesn't make her look exactly better. I'm gonna look again at it.

Suspects: kiku, Shotty, Kise (that's the new Yarmond slot right?).
I am gonna revise Serial slot but I'm not inclined to pile up on him at this point, his posts looked townish enough.

I'm kinda disconnected from my D1 notes currently, meh, a week ago feels like a lifetime ago. The bulk of the kiku notes would have been callouts for very reactive playing, isos promised not happening, lack of commenting on dramatic events which is a very useful scumtell, lack of positions.
Slight tone problems with Neto commenting stuff like

Oh, hi. Forgot you were playing. You seem to be doing an excellent job of going unnoticed

and not pursuing further. Something else too, don't remember, would have to look again.

I will decide my vote once I have reread Shotty, I'm deciding between kiku and Shotty atm. That will happen now or tomorrow night. Pretty tired, like always when I reach the computer currently.

In the end most of your argument with kik was in regards to her hammer vote and comments the next day thinking scum would hammer. Why would you think Neto would not hammer himself to stop conversation vs a scum buddy doing just that?
Again this was stuff that serial was bringing up more about kik which I disagreed with.

Then either lazy or tired (I will be nice and say tired to a long trip but after many promises of an analysis of both kik and shotty and only do one with a vote I want to say this quote bothered me)

Shotty analysis aint coming today either.

Still no case on shotty

unvote

I buy the claim.
Sorry for all the pressuring kiku, just couldn't get where you were coming from.
I'm good with a Shotty lynch. Content tonight when I have some more time.

Kise: We NEED content from your slot.

However willing to hammer on nothing at all:

Clogged up with getting from Mongolia to Japan to Europe and related stuff; taking time looking at things with wide eyes irl. Still approve of Shotty lynch and like the case. Content posting hard for me right now.
Shotty lurking at this point is a good sign.
I won't hammer in case Kise's about to do something but if I get access I'm also willing to do it soon.

I think you are the most likely scum on the wagon, and also consider you barely on it, and you are again defending yourself based on chiming in the hammer. Off wagon I'm still looking at Shotty and Kise. I'm keeping an eye on 2 others. Yes, I find it rather likely there was scum off wagon. No, that probability is zzz. I'm not looking at 6 people (actually 5 cause I know I'm town).

Why would you mention yourself in this statement when you were voting for neto at the end?

The Thirteenth Votecount: LYNCHED!

DarkLightA (1): SttB
Netopalis (7): Ellibereth, ABR, Ojanen, DarkLightA, Saberwolf, SC, Kikuchiyo
ABR (1): Netopalis
SerialClergyman (1): Farside
Kikuchiyo (1): hewitt
Not Voting (1): KittyMo

In short:

talked about a case on kik in regards to neto which never happened. Built off a case from SC in regards to her hammer vote.
Talks about voting SB with no case prior to this.
This is why I feel reading these days and reading today is like seeing someone who went back to read but didnt' bother to do it before.

[farside22]

Next up is Kise: I think this person has done far too much lurking.

[farside22]

Ugh kise is total useless so far this game.

My predecessors look like George Clooney compared to CSL. Get real. Don't think I haven't noticed you're riding my back due to lurking.

This made me LOL but on a serious note trying to bypass SC's comments about your lurkering this way just doesnt' sit well.


I'm not sure why kise is focused on Hewitt as scum do to Neto withholding his vote. Neto withheld his vote on DLA< CSL and hewitt. Just saying

That's basically all I have from kise. He is attacking SC based on Hewitt being probable scum with Neto and pushing Hewitt as scum based on the L-1 where neto said he would hammer but didn't.

[farside22]

I don't get your town read on Scigatt/Saber.
He basically sat back for the whole kiku vs. Shotty thing and voted Shotty when it was clear he was going to be lynched.
I think one of hewitt/Kise could be scum, but not both.

I voted for him at that time

because

his lynch was almost certain and I wanted to close off discussion during what was effectively twilight.(Also, because it took me that long to locate and process his case, but that's just me being sucky at replacing in.) The post where I mentioned I didn't like the case on his was before I found it, and it seemed like everyone was reacting to his attitude. I did(and still do) have some reason for suspecting SC, which I expressed earlier (but not very well). Note that I still haven't gotten the game 'in my head', but I have found a part of a single post which I think is quite revealing.

comments like this have me missing saber who I had a town read on this just comes off as anti-town.

[farside22]

Ojanen: Why did you ignore the comments I made about the interaction between neto/SC yesterday and bring them up today.

As for SttB yes he was on your scum list day 1 but you never wrote a reason.
As for the last statement I was a bit confused before but I think your saying you thought one of Kise/SttB (not on the wagon players) was scum and 1 of the players on the Neto wagon was scum. Is this correct?

[farside22]

Hewitt needing a replacement is a null tell. He replaced out of a game he was town and never responded I haven't see recently him doing it as scum but I say null tell.
Kise lack of posting and comments make me think scum.

Ojanen: You keep saying DLA is town but don't seem to regard his vote on SC as anything.....do you think his following right now is really town?
Also for every connection you give neto/SC I have one for DLA/neto. You didn't seem to respond to the fact either of them could be under the same category.

[farside22]

shotty proclaimed DLA scum and he flipped town which gives me pause.
There was a true lack of neto comments from SC and yes SC I give enough credit to someone in a corner that is scum to bus their scum partner to look town and you to be said type player so please no WIFOM.
I think I'm at a quadry between DLA/SC, kise and Ojanen.
Those are my top 4 for various of reasons right now.
I'm not going to give elibeth the free pass of neto scum voting on him that Ojanen did. I know I voted for my scum partner many a game day 1 to help them out later in the game.

[farside22]

farside, have you looked at the netopalis wagon again?
My Elli feelings have in more to do with Elli's vote and case on Neto than the opposite, even if I don't take in account other individual play from Elli.

Please tell me this has nothing to do with the he was the first to vote for neto therefore he is not scum comment.
please
please
please
*looks at the mod for an asprin*
Listen I'm not saying Eli is scum I just don't clear people and say hey there town. Heck even ABR gave me a pause during day 1 when he is talking to others about voting and I had that gut reaction of him wanting to keep the weak in because their easy to manipulate. I'm paranoid
I question everyone, I wonder how good a player is as scum and what I would do and then flip it back to how evil is this person if they are scum again.
Do I think Eli more town then scum. yes
Do you want to be in my head for a day scum hunting I think you will say no.

[farside22]

Also I've been fighting with SC for 2 game days now about him as scum where the hell were you during that!
Sorry, sorry just aggrevated when I feel people want to pressure me to side with them when I feel leary of them to begin with.

[farside22]

I think you know where I was. I was exclaiming that he's prob town and working with him.
Now I'm more unsure due to flips and new thoughts and posts. I'm still not certainly jumping to his throat, just trying to figure him out more actively.

A vote and calling him scum is figuring a person out these days?

*mutters something about people talking about my scum hunting ways that can't be heard*

Listen my curiousity is about you right now. Going from proclaiming someone a town to flipping and following a case would make anyone look at you twice and (stops before I say something that brings other games into play here)
You voted for kik day 2 proclaimed a case on her day 1. Day 1 case had nothing to do with your day 2 case against her.
Forced her out do to lack of communication (but really I just thought the whole case was crazy to begin with and part of me thinks scum was driving that case on her in the first place)
Now I come into day 3 and I feel like I'm talking to someone completely different then day 1 or 2. Who is talking about a case I brought up and yes that is going to get my scumdar up and going wondering if your doing this as scum hopping for a mislynch or town who just woke up and smelled the coffee.
This is no way alludes to my impression of SC town or scum this is soley based on my impression of you thus far this game.

[farside22]

fos: kise

not liking anything so far from his read. Nothing jiving so far

[farside22]

For the sake of meta, are you Faraday/Far_Cry also?

No. Not even close.
The only alt I remember having and using was called yorgi.

[farside22]

Ojanen: Is it typically for you to put a case together and not place a vote? IE: is there a reason you are not voting anyone at this time?
I mistakenly thought you voted without a vote count it's a bit hard to remember who is voting who right now.

is a huge exaggeration of "after a complete reread I have become more uncertain about this slot", and me following the reasons of the old case is your own assumption.

Reread my day 2 comments and tell me you don't see some similarities. I'm always a bit suspicision of someone who ignores a case on someone 1 day and then starts up a case that someone had the day before that said nothing before about it.
It could all be related to the trip you took. I can concede that point.

[farside22]

.
Kise - I think town, due to the utter lack of interest.

Seriously!
* grabs to OJ * Point to statement here.
This is incrediblly bad POV (point of view)

FOS: DLA

[farside22]

Mod: Any word on a replacement for Hewitt yet?

[farside22]

I really want the replacements to be taken care of. problem was saber is a hard person to read but something in my read of him said town.
Hewitt was almost strung up and neto talked about hammering him based on nothing at all. This has me leaning town on hewitt instead of scum.

[farside22]

Also, I totally don't agree with you about Hewitt's very sudden turnaround about the Neto case. He defended him up until a hammer then switched to agreeing with the case on him. The case posted was possibly more conventional, but you can't tell me he went from you guys are all idiots who don't know what you're doing to actually, the case against neto is quite good just because of Albert's post.

I'm sorry but can you post the quotes where hewitt did this and tell me where on the neto wagon he was?
Thanks

[farside22]

I have to really take a look at all those and when he said it. I think the one about lynching a useless player over the active was said when ABR had that list where he was talking about taking out a more active player which even I questioned.
As for eli post I can't disagree witht that comment.
I'm just seeing things I agreed with on what Hewitt about so it's hard for me to say OMG your right he is scum.
Frankly the case on neto was vague for me too and I missed out on voting for him. So it's hard to condem someone when I felt the same way during Neto's lynch.

[farside22]

Hewitt was almost strung up and neto talked about hammering him based on nothing at all. This has me leaning town on hewitt instead of scum.

But why didn't Neto hammer him? Why did Neto instead go vote for someone else?

Neto also said he was hammer DLA and CSL. He was all over the place with those 3.

[farside22]

You sure CSL and DLA were at L-1? I don't recall either being put in those positions. Thing is, Neto completely dropped the hewitt thing as if he forgot about it. He didn't even say, "well I changed my mind; I think hewitt looks townie." He just.... neglected it all together.

He was being pretty heavily attacked by ABR after that. I would have to see the vote counts to be sure but I thing CSL was at l-1 at one point.

[farside22]

Just too a look and hewitt was never at L-1 in the first place.
It wasn't easy to find as lack of vote counts and all.

[farside22]

.
Kise - I think town, due to the utter lack of interest.

Seriously!
* grabs to OJ * Point to statement here.
This is incrediblly bad POV (point of view)

FOS: DLA

Huh? As a mafia Kise would be interested, and obviously he's placing other games before this one.

So does that make me scum in your book then?
Not sure about most people but I run across more scum that say next to nothing in the game, lurk and only come out to make a case when it's convient.

[farside22]

I need to pick SC's brain right now. or I need someone who is good with sat's of typically mafia games.

Anyone willing to help me out on this? I'm pretty sure if I'm correct one of kise/hewitt is scum. I'm leaning on kise on this more.

[farside22]

gut check and after an isolated read on hewitt

vote: kise

[farside22]

farside, I'm also leaning Kise.
Not sure what you mean by sat or if I'm good at it or if I'm too scummy but I'm willing to help out and I'm here.

It's a bit of WIFOM but it's also very telling and it's the vote count.
My experience when scum is lynched day 1 I typically see at least 1 scum not voting on that lynch. Now mind you I know kitty wasn't around so it's more WIFOM.
I looked more at hewitt since he was around and I really just read fustrated townie in his post. The only other person not on the neto wagon was myself and I know I'm town.
This just leaves kitty/kise as the only person not on Neto wagon.

Now to expand a bit more I'm torn between DLA/SC as the second scum at this point. I think one of the 2 is deffinate scum based on neto defending both of them at one point or another in the game.

[farside22]

Didn't Neto defend hewitt also? And.. vice versa?

gut check and after an isolated read on hewitt

vote: kise

Must be something you ate.

And neto defended CSL and DLA
The only thing that hewitt said on the neto case was he didn't see the case in question.
So defending no, deflecting yes.

farside - know where you're coming from, I saw that too and mentioned it in my reread dump, we do think alike sometimes (well until we get to who's the second scum)

So you don't see either SC or DLA as possible scum connected to Neto?

[farside22]

Farside, you have to understand that mafia can give the appearance of genuine frustration also. If everyone here decided to have a hissy fit, would you read us all as frustrated townie? Mafia can AtE in ways that aren't even direct. It's their job to make you view them in a certain light.

Trust me I'm well aware of scum doing that. But again your case is about hewitt/neto comment.
1) hewitt as far as I found was never at l-1
2) neto defended DLA and CSL but never defended hewitt
3) hewitt never understood the case on neto and frankly neither did I till ABR spilled it out. I would be a hypocrite to say he was scum for not seeing it.

[farside22]

So you don't see either SC or DLA as possible scum connected to Neto?

It's possible (scum is 2 out of Kise, Scigatt, DLA, hewitt, Serial), but for me it's definitely far from definite in contrast to your current opinion.

See I looked at hewitt too and just some things bothered me
Scum bussing: Sure possible neto threaten but both DLA and serial voted on that (I think saber did but I would have to look back) If hewitt is scum with neto would all scum be on that wagon against him?
Scigatt/Saber is in the back of my mind......just something tells me town. Idk saber is all over the place when it comes to players and Scigatt wasn't any type of info at all.
Kise: He's building a case on hewitt that can be stated so far for 2 other players. It's weak and it's not anything that I can't say about DLA or SC.

[farside22]

Wow....Sorry, folks, I've been insanely busy as of late. Cases to come later tonight. Suffice it to say thta I really am not liking Ellibereth right now for her posts which just barely avoid replacement. I also don't like her putting Hewitt at L-1 without clearly stating a reason.

So... hewitt wasn't at L-1, again, you say?

I counted 5 votes against him I could go back and recount at that time but there was no official vote count at that time to reference

[farside22]

hewitt vote notes;

hewitt (6) - ABR, CSL, Shotty, dla, saber, elibereth

CSL unvotes at 253
revotes on 273

Wow....Sorry, folks, I've been insanely busy as of late. Cases to come later tonight. Suffice it to say thta I really am not liking Ellibereth right now for her posts which just barely avoid replacement. I also don't like her putting Hewitt at L-1 without clearly stating a reason.

Wow....Just wow. Bitter much, Hewitt?

I have to throw in analysis of two players here...I think that their acts are extremely important.

First, Hewitt. Hewitt's overly aggressive defense is more than a bit troublesome, as are his bitter tirades towards the latter half of the game as it stands. I would not have suspected him had we not gotten into all of this with him.

That being said, I also have to post a few things about ABR....I really don't like ABR's statement asking people to pick whether they would lynch him or Hewitt. To me, that seems like scum that has found an easy target, but is too lazy to substantiate a claim. I know that ABR is an extremely lazy player (Love ya, but you are...) so this may just be his modus operandi, but I think that there may be something behind it.

First stop for the lynch wagon is, of course, Hewitt. ABR, I know it's kind of pointless now, but can you please explain why you originally suspected him? This is more so that I can analyze your play than it is so that I can analyze his.

Withholding a vote until questions are answered. Once I'm satisfied, I'll be happy to drop the hammer.

post 287 (about 4 post later DLA unvotes)

basically by the time neto gets around to hammer he does the pose let me ask some pointless questions and call both people out.
After this the hewitt wagon dies down when neto makes that comment about willing to vote for either DLA or Hewitt

[farside22]

Lets not forget the post before he calls eli out saying it's a weak vote but willing to hammer hewitt for weak reason's himself
Another reason I just find it more likely then not that Hewitt is town.

[farside22]

Still not so sure about Kisescum.
Decided that the Sabre/Oj/Farside slots are all probably town.
Still torn over Serial.
I really really really want to wait for the 2 replacements we need before I vote.

Serial, who's Kisescum's buddy?

I think I know but I would like serial to answer that question too.

Yeah I decided a bit after reading OJ a bit more I'm leaning town. Just paranoia that gets to me when I see changes from day 1 to day 2 to day 3.

[farside22]

Hewitt, clearly. How could you not know that? Don't go back to D1 elli, I like D2 elli!

Clearly how?

[farside22]

Clearly as in I've been saying it since the start of the day.

Lets see the fact I can show Hewitt replaced out and was town and now kise is trying to build a case on him doesn't damn that view you have on how people "think" is actually based on something called scum hunting in there.

I think there was scum pushing kik personally. I think Kise is scum based on his play so far but also of the belief that at least one scum was not on Neto's lynch.

[farside22]

I would still say hewitt disappearing is a null tell even with that one game. I know he is active in a game I'm modding and I don't know why he fades from one game and not from another.

[farside22]

I've suspected hewitt since the end of day 2:

hewitt doesn't look too good, commentary-wise. Yet, I don't think many players with a scum role would flood entire pages like this day 1. I always thought the predictable strategy was to coast through day 1 and avoid attention.

Interesting that Neto earlier said he didn't like saber's attacks on hewitt. Later when it's hewitt-versus-Albert, Neto doesn't hammer and wants questions answered first. He request a deadline extension when hewitt is quite close to a lynch.. I have to wonder what it is he wanted to delay -- More specifically, I'm wondering if he wanted to keep hewitt from being lynched. He later doesn't even vote for either, instead going off to play with Elli'.

HOS:

hewitt

Which reminds me, if hewitt is town, he would have died at deadline. Neto requested a deadline extension which would have prevented that. So if we're seeing this the same, Neto wanted hewitt-town to live? I don't see why he would give a crap when he could have just not even been bothered to request it. I can quote Neto's request for extension to prove this.

It's weird that you [SC] suspect hewitt also (as of today, you said?), but it's not deterring me. Looking at worst case scenario, town loses with two mislynches plus two nightkills. Compared to DLA, farside, OJ, Elli and Scigatt, I'm still leaning hewitt/SC as I don't see both being mislynches. Even with the little accomplished by Scigatt, the interactions of Neto don't make me view Sci as scum.

Vote: hewitt

For what it's worth, hewitt said a few days before D1 ended that he didn't find Neto scummy, then when the lynch is inevitable he kinda agrees with it, but doesn't drop the hammer.

Farside, you say I'm the scum that wasn't on Neto's wagon... Well, who's the scum that

was

on the wagon?

Either DLA or SC in my opinion. I really feel strongly that neto was defending both of these two strongly and that one of them is scum.

[farside22]

I found the quote where neto asked for an extension. I didn't see a vote count yet but lets look further for the sake of an argument.

Speaking of such, Lab, can we get an extension? That'd be fantastic. Amazing. Splendiferous. Positively smashing.

[farside22]

vote count when neto asked for an extension:

Vote Count

Hewitt (3) - Shotty, Albert, Ellibereth
CSL (2) - farside22, saber
DLA (1) - CSL
Ellibereth (1) - hewitt
shotty:

Not Voting (1): KittyMo

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

@Kise:
Did you not even read that it was 3 or 5 post later after Neto said he would hammer that DLA unvoted?

[farside22]

finally about the deadline. The request from neto was 5 days (RL days) before the deadline that lab mafia instilled there is no way to know what the lynch was going to be at that time. It was being pushed for Hewitt ofr DLA

[farside22]

Do you agree with 1{Kise/Hewitt} + 1{Dla/Sc}?

No. It's certainly possible but I'm not excluding other pairings (Kise-Hewitt, and unsure about Scigatt).

I'm quite sure Neto never did that reread on hewitt.

If kise flipped scum I would wonder more about DLA based on his comments about kise so far today and calling the guy town based on such bad reasoning.

[farside22]

Oh, I should probably point out for everyone, this game doesn't follow the normal no-lynch-at-deadline rule - it uses the half-votes system, meaning that if any one player has 3 or more votes at deadline, that player would be lynched except in LYLO.

hewitt has 3 votes according to your votecount, farside, so still....

Again he asked for an extension on the 6th the deadline from lab was the 11th. We lynched Neto on the 14th.
See how quickly things change. There is no way to say who was going to be lynched at that deadline without a lot of WIFOM.

[farside22]

In other words, not fluent with an American-English dialect. Words are not structured the same. I remember seeing Albert & Neto joke about DLA's language earlier, and he kinda reminds me of mykonia.

Anyway, there are the 4 votes right there + CSL & Ellibereth. From here on down to post 286, Neto is doing all this hibbery jibbery which includes the request for extension to buy hewitt time.

Unvote, Vote: Ellibereth

Last few posts show a disconnect with the game, a borderline criminal lack of knowledge and a lack of original thought.

This was after DLA pursued Ellibereth (so, again, kudos to DLA for starting a case and not following). To me, it looks like Neto won't bother coming back to the ABR-hewitt situation. But really, when he does make his next post, Neto decides to go against ABR and says that he'll reread hewitt. As you just said, Elli, Neto never gets back around to that reread.

This vote on ellibereth does give me great pause. As he did talk about hammering hewitt then moved to this vote next.
It does make me ponder a bit

unvote:

I think that is the only post I can say that honestly makes me go hmm right now.