Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

DarkLightA · Post Post #1125 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:45 am

Outcomes:

Kik = town
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK kik as town.
2. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik remains in play. Next day lynch Kik.
3. Lynch Kik --> NK someone else as town/mason.

Kik = mason
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK kik as mason.
2. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik (mason) remains in play. Next day lynch Kik.
3. Lynch Kik (mason) --> NK someone else as town/mason.

Kik = scum
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik (scum) lynched next day.
2. Lynch Kik (scum)

-----

I seem to be in favor of the first 2 bulks.

unvote
vote: Shotty

Ellibereth · Post Post #1126 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:52 am

Ellibereth · Post Post #1127 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:58 am

DarkLightA wrote:Outcomes:

Kik = town
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK kik as town.
2. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik remains in play. Next day lynch Kik.
3. Lynch Kik --> NK someone else as town/mason.

Kik = mason
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK kik as mason.
2. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik (mason) remains in play. Next day lynch Kik.
3. Lynch Kik (mason) --> NK someone else as town/mason.

Kik = scum
1. Lynch Shotty --> NK someone else as town/mason. Kik (scum) lynched next day.
2. Lynch Kik (scum)

-----

I seem to be in favor of the first 2 bulks.

unvote
vote: Shotty

Wtf is this all about. No scum in their right mind would fake-claim mason right now.
Suggesting lynching Kiku now is just plain wrong.

But good vote.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1128 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:59 am

EBWOP: I meant, "even thinking about lynching Kiku right now is wrong."

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1129 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:48 pm

Ok, this isn't a terrible thing.

I can actually buy this claim. I think kiku trying to play outside of her playstyle and follow Albert's advice is what's led to the total breakdown in communication. Saying things like Shotty was his number one suspect is irritating if only knew and someone else knew it though.

The arguments we had were totally reminiscant to our argument over lynching hockey over TOledo in our first game together, kiku, which was a solid factor in me thinking you were scum. You seemed to have that same logic slip

Seeing you quickhammer as town in that meta also gives me pause.

So - the logical step is to

unvote, vote Shotty

If anyone is wondering whether it's appropriate to claim to back your partner - theory dictates it doesn't matter much because she'll be dead and you'll have to claim then to stop mafia claiming at lylo. So I wouldn't bother.
If anyone is wondering whether it's appropriate to claim in order to expose the fakeclaiming kiku, the answer is yes, absolutely, it's worth exposing a mason to catch one of the two last scum.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1130 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:04 pm

Some random meta based on Shotty's limited scum games sample:

In Isacc's Sexy Mafia which was mod abandoned, he was scumbuddies with DraketheFake and Starman. Only 9 posts in game, but he mentioned neither of his scumbuddies.
In TV Network Mafia, his scumbuddies dahill and Shadow Knight/Socrates.
He mentioned dahill only twice throughout the whole game: A miniscule comment to him here, and only accusing both of his buddies here when the game was already all but over. He has the same close to nil interaction with his other partner, only here, not addressing him again until the game was basically decided. This is through 44 posts.

Conclusion: As Scum Shotty does not interact much with his partners.

Scigatt · Post Post #1131 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:10 pm

Who's your partner, kiku?

It's better to do this now and get a confirmable town than later and have a questionable town.(Assuming kiku likely NK)

I'm withholding judgment until that(or somebody mentions why we shouldn't reveal her partner.)

Scigatt · Post Post #1132 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:11 pm

EBWOP:I didn't see SC's post(Stepped out an forgot to post the last one.) Still think that the partner claiming is a good idea.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1133 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:13 pm

Serial wrote: If anyone is wondering whether it's appropriate to claim to back your partner - theory dictates it doesn't matter much because she'll be dead and you'll have to claim then to stop mafia claiming at lylo. So I wouldn't bother.

^^That

I think the partner should only claim tomorrow if Kiku dies tonight.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1134 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:17 pm

If Kik dies tonight, it makes no difference if the partner claims today or tomorrow.
But since there is the off chance she lives, no partner claim now seems better.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1135 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:24 pm

Scigatt wrote:Who's your partner, kiku?

It's better to do this now and get a confirmable town than later and have a questionable town.(Assuming kiku likely NK)

I'm withholding judgment until that(or somebody mentions why we shouldn't reveal her partner.)

This only makes sense if there's no way we can lynch one of the two people claiming the role. Provided her partner claims tomorrow we can believe the claim, because otherwise there would be a counterclaim. If there IS a counter claim, we can lynch whoever we suspect the most first and are garunteed scum that day or the next.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1136 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Elli - are you an alt of anyone?

When you started this game you seemed quite a bit different, lots of following and not much effort or thought. Now you're doing meta research and have quite complex theory answers. Any reason for the change, or just psyched up a bit or what?

Ellibereth · Post Post #1137 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:33 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:Elli - are you an alt of anyone?

When you started this game you seemed quite a bit different, lots of following and not much effort or thought. Now you're doing meta research and have quite complex theory answers. Any reason for the change, or just psyched up a bit or what?

I'm your alt silly!

Let's forget about my earlier play.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1138 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:40 pm

Shotty's at L-2 right now btw, I'd be happy to string him up without a claim, on the spot, now, on Christmas.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1139 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:47 pm

And wouldn't it be a great present to Dram to have a body all nice and hanged by the time he gets back!
I think he'd be pleased.

farside22 · Post Post #1140 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:03 pm

There is no way that shotty is mason. What claim are you really expecting eli?
I was really thinking that shotty and SC scum together but I wanted SC's lynch as my back up.
I had the SC/Shotty with a chance of DLA as my top 3.
SC's flip I felt was going to give more to me as I knew see ABR'S reaction
1. SC was not mason
2. the shotty defending SC (CSL) starts to take perspective.

If shotty flips scum this still makes SC look like scum in my book based on Shotty's comments early in the game and clears DLA.

unvote:
vote shotty

I was concerned that shotty was mason based on the fact that ABR ignored that case so their went that theory out the door.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1141 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:04 pm

meh, I would expect Shotty to fake-claim mason to try and out the last mason today...

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1142 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:14 pm

Zzz farside

I hate it when people are like whether this person flips town or scum I'm going to use it as evidence against you.

There's no real down side to outing the last mason, just that the scum have a choice of either mason to kill. I doubt he'll try it.

farside22 · Post Post #1143 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:19 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:Zzz farside

I hate it when people are like whether this person flips town or scum I'm going to use it as evidence against you.

There's no real down side to outing the last mason, just that the scum have a choice of either mason to kill. I doubt he'll try it.

Seriously?
Okay lets do the math. Neto protected CSL and if shotty is scum who defended CSL isn't it more likely then not that they were protecting their scum partner?

People's action (scum especially) are good clues to scum partners. If you say this logic is false I will go right back to voting for you.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1144 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:24 pm

farside - the problem isn't with that logic, the problem is:

If shotty flips town you attacked him from the start of the day and pushed his case hard. You must be scum.
If shotty flips scum, he defended CSL along with neto. You must be scum.

Do you get what I mean? It's the fact that no matter what he flips, the indication is his alignment is going to be a factor in a case against me.

But aside from all of that, don't make an argument or I'll vote you is lame and not going to stop me posting

Ellibereth · Post Post #1145 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:24 pm

[quote=SC]
There's no real down side to outing the last mason, just that the scum have a choice of either mason to kill. I doubt he'll try it. [/quote]

Disagree, giving the scum a choice of who to leave as the confirmed town can't be good. And if he claims vanilla he'll be strung up anyway.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1146 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:26 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:farside - the problem isn't with that logic, the problem is:

If shotty flips town you attacked him from the start of the day and pushed his case hard. You must be scum.
If shotty flips scum, he defended CSL along with neto. You must be scum.

Do you get what I mean? It's the fact that no matter what he flips, the indication is his alignment is going to be a factor in a case against me.

But aside from all of that, don't make an argument or I'll vote you is lame and not going to stop me posting

If he flips town it won't factor against you. If he flips scum it will.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1147 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Ah - I think I see the failure in communication.

Obviously cases that say if blah flips scum you're likely scum or if blah is innocent you're likely scum are fine individually - it's when there's a case

no matter whether the person is town or scum

that I don't like it.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #1148 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:30 pm

Well, personally I think if he's town it should be more likely to be suspicious given I've attacked him all day, and if he flips scum I'm not going to just roll over given I've really led the push against him, but at least if you acknowledge that you have that one or the other reasoning I guess I can't complain.

Ellibereth · Post Post #1149 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:33 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:Well, personally I think if he's town it should be more likely to be suspicious given I've attacked him all day, and if he flips scum I'm not going to just roll over given I've really led the push against him, but at least if you acknowledge that you have that one or the other reasoning I guess I can't complain.

Don't want to argue this now, will wait for his flip.
I promise if he flips SK it will 100% clear you though.

Anyway...we have one lovely hammer to give away! Who wants to log on and take it!