Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

I've suspected hewitt since the end of day 2:

hewitt doesn't look too good, commentary-wise. Yet, I don't think many players with a scum role would flood entire pages like this day 1. I always thought the predictable strategy was to coast through day 1 and avoid attention.

Interesting that Neto earlier said he didn't like saber's attacks on hewitt. Later when it's hewitt-versus-Albert, Neto doesn't hammer and wants questions answered first. He request a deadline extension when hewitt is quite close to a lynch.. I have to wonder what it is he wanted to delay -- More specifically, I'm wondering if he wanted to keep hewitt from being lynched. He later doesn't even vote for either, instead going off to play with Elli'.

HOS:

hewitt

Which reminds me, if hewitt is town, he would have died at deadline. Neto requested a deadline extension which would have prevented that. So if we're seeing this the same, Neto wanted hewitt-town to live? I don't see why he would give a crap when he could have just not even been bothered to request it. I can quote Neto's request for extension to prove this.

It's weird that you [SC] suspect hewitt also (as of today, you said?), but it's not deterring me. Looking at worst case scenario, town loses with two mislynches plus two nightkills. Compared to DLA, farside, OJ, Elli and Scigatt, I'm still leaning hewitt/SC as I don't see both being mislynches. Even with the little accomplished by Scigatt, the interactions of Neto don't make me view Sci as scum.

Vote: hewitt

For what it's worth, hewitt said a few days before D1 ended that he didn't find Neto scummy, then when the lynch is inevitable he kinda agrees with it, but doesn't drop the hammer.

Farside, you say I'm the scum that wasn't on Neto's wagon... Well, who's the scum that

was

on the wagon?

Either DLA or SC in my opinion. I really feel strongly that neto was defending both of these two strongly and that one of them is scum.

[farside22]

I found the quote where neto asked for an extension. I didn't see a vote count yet but lets look further for the sake of an argument.

Speaking of such, Lab, can we get an extension? That'd be fantastic. Amazing. Splendiferous. Positively smashing.

[Ojanen]

I wanna lynch Kise over hewitt.
There's nothing about Kise that suggest town to me, while hewitt is more ambiguous.
I would need to verify whether my rough feel is right, but basically

every single time

I remember him coming back to contribute it has come right after someone prodding him or pressuring him, followed with gaps.
This newest vote feels again like a complete reaction vote. Gonna verify.

[Ojanen]

Kise, what do you think about DLA? (sorry if you've already answered, didn't catch my eye at least.)

[Ellibereth]

I wanna lynch Kise over hewitt.
There's nothing about Kise that suggest town to me, while hewitt is more ambiguous.
I would need to verify whether my rough feel is right, but basically

every single time

I remember him coming back to contribute it has come right after someone prodding him or pressuring him, followed with gaps.
This newest vote feels again like a complete reaction vote. Gonna verify.

Do you agree with 1{Kise/Hewitt} + 1{Dla/Sc}?

Also, Did Neto ever post anything about his reread here:

Hewitt...is going to merit a reread in isolation.

[Ellibereth]

Unvote

again, bleh.
Looking through Neto's posts for stuff on hewitt...

[farside22]

vote count when neto asked for an extension:

Vote Count

Hewitt (3) - Shotty, Albert, Ellibereth
CSL (2) - farside22, saber
DLA (1) - CSL
Ellibereth (1) - hewitt
shotty:

Not Voting (1): KittyMo

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

@Kise:
Did you not even read that it was 3 or 5 post later after Neto said he would hammer that DLA unvoted?

[Ojanen]

Do you agree with 1{Kise/Hewitt} + 1{Dla/Sc}?

No. It's certainly possible but I'm not excluding other pairings (Kise-Hewitt, and unsure about Scigatt).

I'm quite sure Neto never did that reread on hewitt.

[farside22]

finally about the deadline. The request from neto was 5 days (RL days) before the deadline that lab mafia instilled there is no way to know what the lynch was going to be at that time. It was being pushed for Hewitt ofr DLA

[farside22]

Do you agree with 1{Kise/Hewitt} + 1{Dla/Sc}?

No. It's certainly possible but I'm not excluding other pairings (Kise-Hewitt, and unsure about Scigatt).

I'm quite sure Neto never did that reread on hewitt.

If kise flipped scum I would wonder more about DLA based on his comments about kise so far today and calling the guy town based on such bad reasoning.

[Ojanen]

I have wifomed myself slightly around Neto keeping asking forever for that case from Albert on hewitt, while Albert had already written a large chunk of a case here.
Asking for a case that has been written is an incredibly easy thing to shrug off - judging from the continued harping on it I think it's more likely Neto had missed/forgotten it. For me it's less likely that Neto would miss something of this scale/encourage repetition against his scumbuddy than someone else. A lot of wifom and raw thinking here making me look silly, I know, but yeah.

[Ellibereth]

How hard do you think hewitt tried when he constructed that "fake case" against Neto? it was based on interactions with DLA.

[Ellibereth]

I don't see SC and hewitt together as scum. So hewittscum would most likely be paired with DLA.

[Kise]

Am I wrong in thinking that the rules say if no one has reached lynch-threshold, then the first person with highest # of votes is lynched at deadline? (this won't change my mind drastically about hewitt-scum but right now I'm thinking that hewitt could have been deadline-lynched unless I'm not understanding the rules)

RE: DLA:
He's been all over the place but English is likely not his 1st language. His opinions come across as genuine (from the heart) and not from the mindset of scum wanting to meet their objective hastily. In fact, if he was scum, I'd expect him to be the type to bandwagon rather than try and make a case. I don't think I'm wrong in saying he's been the first to vote for a player he thought was scum/scummy. Mind you, I'm taking into account that he's from Norway.

Your re-reads are kinda screwy, farside.

Vote Count

Hewitt (3) - Shotty, Albert, Ellibereth

You forgot DLA. Keep scrolling down.

Hewitt (4) : DarkLightA, Albert B. Rampage, Shotty to the body, saberwolf

...

Unvote

You both are scumtells, and nulltells...Gah, I can't decide.

You know what, hewitt's play smells slightly like AtE...

I don't know what to think of ABR.

Why did you unvote? Please vote hewitt again.

CSL places the 5th vote on hewitt, then Elli places the 6th vote, THEN DLA unvotes and votes for Elli AFTER Neto mentions DL-extension & hammering.

[Kise]

Oh, I should probably point out for everyone, this game doesn't follow the normal no-lynch-at-deadline rule - it uses the half-votes system, meaning that if any one player has 3 or more votes at deadline, that player would be lynched except in LYLO.

hewitt has 3 votes according to your votecount, farside, so still....

[Ojanen]

Mind you, I'm taking into account that he's from Norway.

Side comment: lol. I'm Finnish, my head makes that sound like you think we're living in caves here.

[Ojanen]

Oh, I should probably point out for everyone, this game doesn't follow the normal no-lynch-at-deadline rule - it uses the half-votes system, meaning that if any one player has 3 or more votes at deadline, that player would be lynched except in LYLO.

hewitt has 3 votes according to your votecount, farside, so still....

Doesn't that render the "Neto didn't hammer hewitt" argument quite ineffective btw? No need to get on the wagon if it was a mislynch one.

I have asked for deadline extension as scum for no own benefit, I dunno. The hewitt wagon looked very likely at the time to get completed regardless.

[Ojanen]

Ugh. I think I'm contradicting myself. Too late night to play mafia.

[Kise]

In other words, not fluent with an American-English dialect. Words are not structured the same. I remember seeing Albert & Neto joke about DLA's language earlier, and he kinda reminds me of mykonia.

Anyway, there are the 4 votes right there + CSL & Ellibereth. From here on down to post 286, Neto is doing all this hibbery jibbery which includes the request for extension to buy hewitt time.

Unvote, Vote: Ellibereth

Last few posts show a disconnect with the game, a borderline criminal lack of knowledge and a lack of original thought.

This was after DLA pursued Ellibereth (so, again, kudos to DLA for starting a case and not following). To me, it looks like Neto won't bother coming back to the ABR-hewitt situation. But really, when he does make his next post, Neto decides to go against ABR and says that he'll reread hewitt. As you just said, Elli, Neto never gets back around to that reread.

[farside22]

Oh, I should probably point out for everyone, this game doesn't follow the normal no-lynch-at-deadline rule - it uses the half-votes system, meaning that if any one player has 3 or more votes at deadline, that player would be lynched except in LYLO.

hewitt has 3 votes according to your votecount, farside, so still....

Again he asked for an extension on the 6th the deadline from lab was the 11th. We lynched Neto on the 14th.
See how quickly things change. There is no way to say who was going to be lynched at that deadline without a lot of WIFOM.

[farside22]

In other words, not fluent with an American-English dialect. Words are not structured the same. I remember seeing Albert & Neto joke about DLA's language earlier, and he kinda reminds me of mykonia.

Anyway, there are the 4 votes right there + CSL & Ellibereth. From here on down to post 286, Neto is doing all this hibbery jibbery which includes the request for extension to buy hewitt time.

Unvote, Vote: Ellibereth

Last few posts show a disconnect with the game, a borderline criminal lack of knowledge and a lack of original thought.

This was after DLA pursued Ellibereth (so, again, kudos to DLA for starting a case and not following). To me, it looks like Neto won't bother coming back to the ABR-hewitt situation. But really, when he does make his next post, Neto decides to go against ABR and says that he'll reread hewitt. As you just said, Elli, Neto never gets back around to that reread.

This vote on ellibereth does give me great pause. As he did talk about hammering hewitt then moved to this vote next.
It does make me ponder a bit

unvote:

I think that is the only post I can say that honestly makes me go hmm right now.

[Kise]

Well I will say this for those waiting on a replacement: I was personally asked by dram to enter the game, so it's likely that people aren't checking the queue out of interest to join an ongoing game. The best bet for replacements seem to be via referral.

[dramonic]

The Twentieth Votecount: Hunting for Replacements!!

SerialClergyman (1): DarklightA
Hewitt (1): Kise

Not Voting (6): Farside, SerialClergyman, Ojanen, Ellibereth, Hewitt, Scigatt

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline is the 23th at 23:59!

I am currently seeking replacement for Hewitt and Scigatt...

[Ojanen]

Thread's stalling due to replacement waiting and I'm not helping it, although we need the replacees before going to night anyway.
Kise going all sugary on DLA ("it comes from the heart") now doesn't really jive with earlier assessments of gut.
Noting.

DLA gives me bad vibes. Same with CSL. Not exactly diving into conversations themselves; simply commenting on what others talk about. Not saying they have to get into arguments with others, but have some 1-on-1s, or 1-on-many. Get gangbanged like hewitt if that's what it takes.

DLA and hewitt make me cringe.

Page 33. What I've learned so far is that DLA's reads are not dependable

In addition to the positive read now was this comment:

This was after DLA pursued Ellibereth (so, again, kudos to DLA for starting a case and not following)

The switch from SC to hewitt as his biggest suspect seems to possibly follow the thread mood of slightly lessened SC suspicion, in addition to having a timing that seems to possibly stem primarily from Kise getting votes himself. He actually posts negatively about Neto not hammering already right in his D1 catch up before exclaiming with certainty that Serial is scum and that read surpassing the hewitt one.

I'm sorry guys, when I read hewitt I just don't see that much scum. Just don't.
Blah, holding my vote off when my gut is kind of set on Kise anyway is just stalling the thread further. When I read his posts it just feels off. I'm not the most awesome scumdar-possessor ever, I could be wrong about this one especially with the sparse material but when I don't go on gut and try to rationalize starting from there I end up with much less accuracy. Kise reads as scum, hewitt just doesn't really, that lynch would feel wrongwrong, that is all. From Kise I don't like the reactionary air, I don't like the easyness of his reads basically going for most blatantly easy and obvious Neto connections, linking them to each other or their respective most blatant connections, basing stuff purely on the connections, pacing of posting, everyone else feeling more town in some way, gutgutgutgutgut.

vote: Kise

[farside22]

okay I looked a bit more of the interaction between neto and hewitt and there were things I missed.
It seems Neto never had a case on hewitt although he said he would vote and hammer him.
Also after neto votes for eli, hewitt follows 2 pages later:

I don't feel quite comfortable lynching ABR today. Normally I'd want to pick out the Mafiate who plays manipulatively and sneakily in order to subtly sway the town in their direction to lynch townies. I don't think ABR is that Mafiate at all and if anything is more of a SensFan. At this point in the game though I feel like the follower Mafiates who follow their leaders and attempt to fly under the radar are much easier to spot out.

Vote: Ellibereth

I remember after CSL unvoted hewitt it looked really suspicious to me and thought of it as scum bassing and backtracking their vote.

Basically I'm of the opinion of either a hewitt/SC combo or Kise/DLA combo