Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[Starbuck]

Vote: Brandi

Because you are one of the two people who I haven't played with before.

[Starbuck]

@Brandi - Seems like OMGUS to me.

[Starbuck]

My name isn't "Starbucks", it's "Starbuck" as in the character from Battlestar Galactica.

[Starbuck]

Unvote, Vote: Monkey

For using the same reason I did to vote Brandi.

[Starbuck]

Why wouldn't you read through the other posts before just voting?

[Starbuck]

Why wouldn't you read through the other posts before just voting?

I did read some, but usually the RVS isn't meant to be taken seriously. Hence the term random votes.

I've been playing here for awhile. I know what RVS is for and what it potentially starts. So you don't need to talk down at me. I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Starbuck]

Well, I find it odd that you would vote the same way I did, especially if you claim to not have read the whole thread to that point, which really wasn't that many posts.

[Starbuck]

I'm just trying to start discussion, and you voting for Brandi for the exact same reason I did is reason enough for me.

Also, there's no reason for you to be condescending.

[Starbuck]

Who says my vote is poor-reasoned? My poor-reasoned vote got a pretty overdefensive reaction out of you.

[Starbuck]

Wow, Monkey. You seem to be getting worked up over something so small.

[Starbuck]

How am I being anti-town? I'm just trying to gauge Monkey's reaction.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, do you consider your vote on Monkey to be a jokevote? Why or why not? Do you buy his explanation? If not, why? If so, why no unvote?

I don't consider it to be a jokevote. Take his response:

Why wouldn't you read through the other posts before just voting?

I did read some, but usually the RVS isn't meant to be taken seriously. Hence the term random votes.

I've been playing here for awhile. I know what RVS is for and what it potentially starts. So you don't need to talk down at me. I'd greatly appreciate it.

Then don't vote me for something as petty as voting for the same reason you did, when it had nothing to do with you.

I don't like how he thinks that him using the same reason as me and the fact that he didn't read through the other posts before posting is a petty reason for voting him. I don't particularly like how he is downplaying my vote.

He keeps repeating over and over again that my vote is without good reasoning or is poor-reasoned.

He also says that I don't know why I voted. I don't like this downplay of my actions either. I voted for three reasons. The first is because I find it odd that Monkey just straight off voted without reading the others posts (RVS or not) & I wanted to garner his reaction, the second was to get us out of RVS, and the third was to generate discussion. And look, all of the above occurred!

I also find it comical that Monkey is using the childish ways of "It wasn't me. She did it!" when it comes to who threw a hissy fit in post 45.

How am I being anti-town? I'm just trying to gauge Monkey's reaction.

Wow, Monkey. You seem to be getting worked up over something so small.

In what way do statements like this help you judge his reaction?

Monkey has not been back to the thread since all of this started, even to defend himself. I've played with him before and normally he at least stands up for himself. As someone as seasoned in mafia as Monkey is, it is odd that he'd give up over something so small.

[Starbuck]

In what way did it not? He's probably upset because we are right on the dot with his lynch. Either way, he's appealing to emotion.

[Starbuck]

So you are focused on me mocking him, but not the reverse when he was mocking me?

Why are you coming to Monkey's defense so fast?

[Starbuck]

Chamber, your accusation bothers me because your first post wasn't until post 48. It's like you conveniently slipped into the game. You voted for Monkey then unvoted as soon as Llama posted the vote count.

You then voted for Crazy by downplaying his vote in post 60.

I do think that you need to answer your own question from post 79 because it seems to me that you did the exact thing that you are questioning Jazzmyn about.

[Starbuck]

Monkey has not been back to the thread since all of this started, even to defend himself. I've played with him before and normally he at least stands up for himself. As someone as seasoned in mafia as Monkey is, it is odd that he'd give up over something so small.

Has he posted elsewhere on site since?

If you go to Monkey's profile you can see that he is posting in his other games, but not in ours.

[Starbuck]

But I already called you out on your completely asinine reasons for voting for Crazy. You voted him for a VERY weak reason. And you just admitted there that you are only voting for him because he's on Monkey's wagon.

Hmm.

FOS: chamber

[Starbuck]

@Mod - Requesting prod on Monkey. His last post can be found here, just over 72 hours ago.

[Starbuck]

I am here. I am choosing not to respond in protest, which is what I originally said.

If you don't like the wagon on you, then do something about it. "Protesting" is asinine and doesn't do anything to help the town. If you really feel that we are somehow being "unfair" then realize that this is a game, and sometimes "unfair" things happen. Sitting out and pouting until things go your way is something that a petulant child would do.

Well said.

[Starbuck]

If you are choosing not to respond or participate, you are pretty much disrespecting every person in this game that's putting their time in to play. So can you please either start participating or replace out so we have someone who's willing to participate?

[Starbuck]

I'm definitely not tunneling. I have focused on others as well, but you are acting immature and rude to everyone else in this game. And your appeals to emotion really aren't helping your case with me which is why my vote hasn't moved.


And I'm not taking what you did out of proportion. It's how you reacted to the situation. You straight up left the game and said that you weren't coming back until the lynch was off you. Now, in my eyes, that means I just caught scum.

[Starbuck]

@Chamber - What personal attacks? There are none. We are not attacking his person (i.e. ad hom), we are attacking his actions, which is what mafia is all about. Monkey is not a newbie, I've played with him before and he has NEVER pulled this type of crap.

I was trying to pull us out of RVS and I did but now it's turned into drama central because Monkey can't handle accusations on him or did we very well catch scum? I think we did and I think your overdefensiveness of him puts you right in the spotlight along side him.

He has thus overreacted to a very small situation, and turned into a huge one and is distracting the town from focusing on other things.


@Monkey - Nobody is following me. If they agree, they are acting of their own accord. I just wanted you to discuss it and be a part of the game. If you are town, you are doing nothing but hurting us with your display of immaturity and childishness. I would be the first one to vouch that you have played otherwise in every other game I've played with you. The way you are acting is so unlike you that I am thinking we caught scum. Instead of having a temper tantrum about all this, you need to man up, be active, and discuss, otherwise do us a favor and get replaced so we have someone who wants to be here.

[Starbuck]

And I never said I opposed discussion, I opposed the treatment by Starbuck and no one bothering to question her.

What treatment? I never ad hom attacked you. I got us out of RVS, and you have been overreacting to anything and everything. Do me a favor and quit blaming your behavior on me. You are better than this, I've seen it. So stop it.

[Starbuck]

Well, my vote will be staying where it is since Monkey can do nothing else but insult and blame me for his behavior (a.k.a. ad hom). I do find chamber suspicious for being such a white knight for Monkey.

[Starbuck]

I really think that Monkey is trying to make excuses, or that he really is legitimately scum and that we managed to catch him. I mean if he was pro-town wouldn't he be trying to help the town and not be so anti-town?

[Starbuck]

I think I've been more pro-town than you have been with taking your reactions and actions into consideration. My vote is placed on the person that I think is the scummiest.

I have been thinking for myself, thank you, but if you want others to trust you, especially if you are town. Why don't you point out who you need to point out? Secret agendas and not laying everything out are ways of scum, not town.

[Starbuck]

It's also been the weekend. Are you really going to get on people for having a life? That's a rather scummy tactic.

[Starbuck]

Quit twisting my words. I never said that attacking lurkers is scummy. You've made it sound like I have been lurking when I have not. It has been the weekend where most people normally have plans. I think your tactic of accusing people for having a life on their weekend is scummy. Now, if someone goes from last Weds until tomorrow or tonight for that matter without posting, then I consider that to be scummy.

[Starbuck]

Quit twisting my words. I never said that attacking lurkers is scummy. You've made it sound like I have been lurking when I have not. It has been the weekend where most people normally have plans. I think your tactic of accusing people for having a life on their weekend is scummy. Now, if someone goes from last Weds until tomorrow or tonight for that matter without posting, then I consider that to be scummy.

Well, I think claiming you were busy when you were posting in other games is scummy. :shrug:

Coming from you, Mr. "I'm not gonna post in here because everyone's being mean to me, but I'll post in all the rest of my games just not this one because I'm throwing a temper tantrum" doesn't really fly.

So pretty much because I caught up on my other games first, you are trying to say that I'm scummy? How about not using outside the game influences? I've been here and I've been active. I think you are just bitter.

[Starbuck]

I was catching up on all my games yesterday, because I was busy over the weekend. Apparently, that's too much for your brain to handle?

Nice OMGUS btw.

[Starbuck]

@Monkey
If you have suspects why aren't you making cases against them or doing any real scum-hunting? How is withholding your suspects and not trying to catch them in a slip, etc. a pro-town way of playing?

I'm not withholding my suspects. I've been doing quite a bit of scum-hunting, especially compared to you.

I'd like you to point out the posts that you were scum hunting because apparently, for the rest of us, it's really hard to tell.

[Starbuck]

And failing miserably. But keep tunneling. It's okay.

[Starbuck]

Can someone sum up the Monkey case for me?

Can that someone be semioldguy specifically.

Why, chamber?

He has very recently asserted that he has such a case, and used it as a defense, so I'm curious what it is.

There are more people than just myself and Semioldguy with cases on Monkey.


Going off the last vote count

MonkeyMan576 (5) - Starbuck, StrangerCoug, Crazy, semioldguy, fuzzylightning


You can easily read Semioldguy in iso to find his case. So why not hear more from Crazy, Fuzzy, or Stranger?

You have been white knighting Monkey since the beginning of the game, and picking apart anyone's case on him. Why so overdefensive of him?

[Starbuck]

He straight up left the game because the lynch turned towards him, and instead of coming up with a case on someone he has just been OMGUSing on me.

My vote hasn't moved because of how he has acted, but he has committed an insane amount of ad hom on more than just myself.

[Starbuck]

Can you explain how he is not being anti-town?

[Starbuck]

Can you explain how he is not being anti-town?

I'm waiting on the semioldguy case. It may turn out that I find semioldguys case against monkey to be telling. Yours, however, is full of holes. Its not like I have a town read on monkey, I just think he's getting way too much flak for what I've seen him do up to this point.

So you are stalling on answering my question because you can't read back in iso and see semioldguy's case?

[Starbuck]

Can you explain how he is not being anti-town?

I'm waiting on the semioldguy case. It may turn out that I find semioldguys case against monkey to be telling. Yours, however, is full of holes. Its not like I have a town read on monkey, I just think he's getting way too much flak for what I've seen him do up to this point.

So you are stalling on answering my question because you can't read back in iso and see semioldguy's case?

I'm "stalling" on the answer because I don't want to impair a chance to judge semioldguys alignment. I really dislike how you paint everything about people you are interacting with in a negative fashion.

Where have I painted things negatively? I just have been pointing out things I find suspicious.

I find Monkey suspicious because of his actions, reactions, and overall style this game.

I find you suspicious because of your blatant defense of Monkey anytime someone says something about him.

[Starbuck]

@Chamber - It seems to me like you are still trying to cover for Monkey's actions. I've played with him before and he is definitely capable of doing it himself, so why are you still doing it?

I also don't agree with you that either alignment would run like he did.

As SC has pointed out, you still haven't explained how my case is full of holes. Yes, I did originally vote Monkey and give a reason so for his reaction. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant me pulling my vote off him.



@ Crazy - What about chamber makes you think he's not scum? What about my case and about SC's case on chamber make it horrible? What makes SC's post 242 "one of the biggest strawmans" you've ever seen?

You don't have any reason to be riding me so hard. So I posted the same reason as Starbuck and admitted to not reading that particular post. Then I left an argument because it was crap. That makes me scum?

You left a discussion and didn't defend yourself. You said that you weren't coming back to the thread until that topic was over. You didn't start posting again until we asked you to be prodded and thusly asked for you to be replaced if you really didn't want to play. Then you ask why you even should defend yourself?? Monkey, for someone as seasoned in playing mafia as you, I find this very hard to believe. You are not playing as I have seen you play before.



@Gorrad - You are not doing the town any good by not participating in discussions and not taking part in scumhunting. You are tunneling on Brandi, what are your thoughts on everyone else playing?


@Brandi - On your self-voting point, I have been proved wrong more than once when I assumed that self-voting was a scum tell. It can be used to garner discussion, and to get things rolling. It is useful. It took me awhile to see that, but it is. I don't like that someone who has been on MS as long as you discounts this.

[Starbuck]

So basically you are saying that since I don't overreact to votes on me, but I do argue my points, it's a double standard?

That statement really doesn't make any sense.

[Starbuck]

So basically you are saying that since I don't overreact to votes on me, but I do argue my points, it's a double standard?

That statement really doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure what he meant was: You don't mind when people attack those you are attacking, but do mind when people defend those you are attacking. I don't think of it as a double standard per say, but at least this way its possible to see where he's coming from.


If you want me to post a concise defense of monkey, first you can post a concise case. Otherwise you can reread my posts in the thread.

First off, I really do think that you need to stop answering for Monkey.

I don't mind when people defend those who I'm attacking, but you jump in before he can ever speak for himself. So pretty much, he is just following your lead after he comes back into the thread. I really don't care for it, and I'm pretty sure that there are others that agree with me.

Wow, getting rather snarky there at the end. I have posted the reason why my vote originally went on Monkey and why it has stayed there and has not moved, and probably will not move, more than a number of times. You could easily read me back in iso, and see that.

I think it's rather immature of you to say that "screw you guys, unless she posts something, I won't". I have been posting and have repeated myself over and over.

[Starbuck]

So now, you've distracted from the conversation at hand because of what you *think* he meant instead of letting him answer for himself, as you have been doing since the start of the game.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck- KMD's probably town, and I'm getting a slight scum lean from Monkey, but other than that it's mostly nulltells at this point. Ask me again D2.

kk, thanks for answering!

[Starbuck]

Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.

Starbuck's scum-hunting isn't even remotely sensible. My scumdar screams at her nearly as much as it screams at Monkey.

I'll be back later; I got homework to do.

What's not sensible about my scumhunting?

[Starbuck]

Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.

Starbuck's scum-hunting isn't even remotely sensible. My scumdar screams at her nearly as much as it screams at Monkey.

I'll be back later; I got homework to do.

What's not sensible about my scumhunting?

You're attacking Monkey for his over-reaction and his appeal to emotion, mainly, which are two of the worst "scum-tells" ever.

You also attack chamber merely for depending Monkey, although isn't it plausible he just disagrees with you?

I suspect chamber because of his constant defending of Monkey and his speaking for Monkey.

Have you been following the game at all to see the other reasons why I haven't moved my vote from Monkey? It's quite apparent that you have not.

[Starbuck]

Have you been following the game at all to see the other reasons why I haven't moved my vote from Monkey? It's quite apparent that you have not.

I'm a little behind, and for the past day or two I've only been answering questions that have been asked of me.

And even if you added reasons later on, that still would be mostly irrelevant, since your original case on Monkey was stuffed full of crap.

Well, you might wanna go back and re-read because my original vote on Monkey was for a reaction, which he gave in abundance. His continued actions, reactions, and overall scumminess since then have given me reason to not move my vote from him.

You should really re-read before you start throwing around baseless accusations.

[Starbuck]

I'm not saying that you have to like my case on Monkey. You keep saying over and over again that it's full of crap, but you have not stated why it is or what part of it is, only that it's crap.

There is nothing wrong with chamber defending Monkey, but he's been overdefensive of him and answering questions that are geared towards Monkey and not himself, basically giving Monkey an easy path when he comes back in to reply.

[Starbuck]

Well, you might wanna go back and re-read because my original vote on Monkey was for a reaction, which he gave in abundance. His continued actions, reactions, and overall scumminess since then have given me reason to not move my vote from him.

You should really re-read before you start throwing around baseless accusations.

Yah, "reactions." That's what I was talking about when I said your case was full of crap. Reactions don't mean anything; townies over-react all the time. More than scum, probably.

So now that I repeat myself again, you FINALLY realize why you think my case is crap? I really don't buy it.

[Starbuck]

He DID PURSUE THAT. I wish you would re-read so you would see this!

Crazy, he didn't just stop posting. He left the game, and was posting in his other games and not posting in our thread. We finally got to the 72 hour prod rule, and we asked him either to participate or be replaced.

[Starbuck]

So now that I repeat myself again, you FINALLY realize why you think my case is crap? I really don't buy it.

I always said your case was full of crap.

This is true, but you never provided reasons until now.

[Starbuck]

Also, I just reread you in iso, and I seriously want a full case, in your words, against monkey.

If you're talking to me, look at my iso #13.

He DID PURSUE THAT. I wish you would re-read so you would see this!

Crazy, he didn't just stop posting. He left the game, and was posting in his other games and not posting in our thread. We finally got to the 72 hour prod rule, and we asked him either to participate or be replaced.

He did come back after he was prodded, though.

But he shouldn't have had to be prodded. He was being active in his other games, but not this one. That's called active lurking.

[Starbuck]

Unvote

Thank you, Monkey, for finally doing something to defend yourself, even if it was just claiming.

Vote: Chamber

For everything that I have said previously.

[Starbuck]

Well, I know they are wrong because I am town. And if the wagon continues, at least it will garner info for the town because I know there is scum on my wagon.

[Starbuck]

I haven't ignored anything, and I think that's quite rude of you to insinuate that I did.

[Starbuck]

So just because I don't comment on something that means I'm ignoring it? I don't get your logic.

[Starbuck]

You just said that your role is conditional as long as we don't lynch a townie. I'm telling you that if I'm lynched then you won't be able to watch.

[Starbuck]

So it's time to claim.

I am

Buzz Lightyear from Toy Story, Vanilla Townie

.

[Starbuck]

Mod - My vote is now on chamber, not Monkey

.

[Starbuck]

Oh dammit, we need 7 to lynch not 5.

I'm retarded.

[Starbuck]

Done some reading. I am getting a biggger scum vibe from Starbuck than Monkey, I do think Monkeys non post petition was odd, but not necessarily scummy.

Starbucks posts seem to all give me a bad vibe, and usually everything she says ends with a question to someone(Turning the tables, in my opinion).

So explain to me how asking questions is not pro-town? Because last I knew sitting back not asking questions and not scumhunting was anti-town.

@Brandi - Seems like OMGUS to me.

A VERY early accusation. Seems a bit off for a vote in the RVS.

You say it seems a bit off, but that's all. No further explanation. Why does it seem off?

Unvote, Vote: Monkey

For using the same reason I did to vote Brandi.

Seems like Hypocrisy in the RVS. I could

maybe

see a FoS, but a vote for what you just did is very peculiar.

I've explained myself multiple times. I voted to garner reaction, and I did garner a reaction from Monkey. I have played with him before. I didn't expect as big of a ruckus as that turned out to be. He straight up left the game when the heat got too hot.

There are more people than just myself and Semioldguy with cases on Monkey.


Going off the last vote count

MonkeyMan576 (5) - Starbuck, StrangerCoug, Crazy, semioldguy, fuzzylightning


You can easily read Semioldguy in iso to find his case. So why not hear more from Crazy, Fuzzy, or Stranger?

You have been white knighting Monkey since the beginning of the game, and picking apart anyone's case on him. Why so overdefensive of him?

(This was to Chamber)

I dont like this post too much. She diverts attention to the other 3, and then goes on to attack Chamber(although not a bad thing), but again diverts from the issue.

Did you not read the posts that preceded this? Chamber ONLY WANTED the case to come from Semioldguy. I was asking him why he only wanted one from Semioldguy and not any of the other people who were voting for Monkey. So I don't understand how this is a diversion, unless you were only reading me in iso and didn't see the posts that came before this one.

Gorrad wrote:
Starbuck- KMD's probably town, and I'm getting a slight scum lean from Monkey, but other than that it's mostly nulltells at this point. Ask me again D2.


kk, thanks for answering!

I dont like this response, especially the smiley at the end. Its like she's saying, "Thanks for your reads."

There has been a serious lack of people answering for themselves because other people are answering for them. I was thanking Gorrad for answering the question towards him rather than letting others do so.

[Starbuck]

Is it coincedental you decided to hop on the biggest bandwagon(that isn't yours)? You have been saying all game that you are town, but just because you say it doesn't mean you are town.

I've been attacking Chamber quite a bit, so I don't see how it's coincidental that I switched my vote to the next person in line that I find scummy given Monkey's roleclaim.

[Starbuck]

Well now that Monkey claimed a PR, I can see what his frustration was so your second question is now null and void.

And as you said I already responded to the first and I have nothing to add.

[Starbuck]

Well now that Monkey claimed a PR, I can see what his frustration was so your second question is now null and void.

And as you said I already responded to the first and I have nothing to add.

unvote vote starbuck

Reconsider answering both now?

I want to see your case on monkey to evaluate you, so it is in no way void.

You responded but you didn't answer. Untill you do I don't think I can understand your mindset as a player, and in a generic sense your play seems scummy as hell.

I have answered both.

Why are you threatening me?

[Starbuck]

You just said a few posts up that I responded and now I have answered neither?

Threatening someone, in my eyes, is not a town tactic. It's a scum tactic.

[Starbuck]

forgot to respond to this:

Threatening someone, in my eyes, is not a town tactic. It's a scum tactic.

I don't like threatening, but when asking nicely twice doesnt work, I do what gets the job done.

Well then, my vote is placed perfectly.

[Starbuck]

I think we can all play this game WITHOUT flinging insults.

[Starbuck]

I think you just slipped there, Crazy.

[Starbuck]

I think you both just did.

Why do you think this?

Why both of us, but not one or the other?

[Starbuck]

I'm definitely not scum, but if you would all like to continue the lynch on me, go ahead.

I know what the outcome will be and then the town will know who to focus on for tomorrow's lynch.

[Starbuck]

Crazy said fakeclaim, then quickly hushed it up. That means he knows you fakeclaimed. That means you fakeclaimed. That means you're both scum.

So why is this an absolute?

He could easily be bluffing.

[Starbuck]

Crazy said fakeclaim, then quickly hushed it up. That means he knows you fakeclaimed. That means you fakeclaimed. That means you're both scum.

I'm willing to go with this theory.

I know that I am not scum. I have claimed, and I am Buzz Lightyear, who is a Vanilla Townie.

My wagon is definitely scum driven. To my fellow townies, I hope that WHEN (not IF) I flip town that you will take the appropriate action.

[Starbuck]

It was nice playing with some of you. I hope that our town can pull this off, right now it's not looking promising.

[Starbuck]

It was nice playing with some of you. I hope that our town can pull this off, right now it's not looking promising.

Appeal to emotion much?

You would know.

[Starbuck]

In light of recent events I went back to do an iso on Crazy.



He votes for Monkey in this post, and he fully believes that Monkey was scum via the following

Wow, this is so stupid. Monkey has to be scum. Not on the emotional appeals, but refusing to play the game means either scum or horrible town. And I think Monkey is too experienced of a player to do this as town.

He doesn't like my case because I apparently based it all on AtE and reactions. The biggest reaction Monkey made was leaving the game, and actively lurking until the point where he was prodded that's why my vote stayed where it was. The thing about this that bothers me the most is that he keeps making an excuse of being a little behind via [http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 41#1904641]this post[/url] when he was there when Monkey up and left.

He tries to justify Monkey leaving in this post by saying that Monkey came back after he was prodded. My issue with all of this is that Monkey shouldn't have left the game in the first place and should not have needed to be prodded when he was being active elsewhere on the site. He admits that I'm right about this via this post, but then says he can forgive Monkey's outburst when originally (look at the above quote), he didn't feel that way.


He seems to be contradicting himself if he believes the following

Meh. True. Crazy seems to think that the only way scum are caught is if they do something that would benefit them though.

Not exactly. I just don't like the argument of "This makes no sense as town, so he must be scum."

Why would he lie and say that I fakeclaimed when he knows nothing about my role? My guess is that he is scum painting a target on me, and WHEN I flip town. He will be in the spotlight and need to answer for that.

Example: Self voting is a scum tell.
Player A always self votes.
Self voting is STILL a scumtell.
The end.

People who play like scum on purpose and to try to say "oh it's how I play, so you can't point fingers at me!" are retarded and I have no sympathy for them~ These types of people always hurt the town.

Being anti-town even when you're always anti-town is anti-town. But being anti-town when you're always anti-town is not scummy; it's a null-tell.

I really don't like this because Crazy is most definitely being anti-town, and it seems like he's using the reasoning as an excuse to be anti-town.


Another thing that bothers me about Crazy is that he does not see anything wrong with how Chamber has been answering for Monkey and white-knighting him. I think it was StrangerCoug that put it best. Chamber has been defending Monkey for Monkey instead of Monkey defending himself.

I'm also bothered by the fact that he kept calls my case crap via this post, and doesn't seem to remember why it's crap until I make mention of what my case on Monkey was via this post.


After Monkey claims, Crazy immediately unvotes Monkey and votes me. He then immediately unvotes me after I claim. Let's take a look at this post

Pixar is owned by Disney and there were Pixar characters in the first game, and Toy Story is most definitely a "classic." It came out in 1995, which was in a time period that Disney was still making its own traditionally-animated classics.

Besides that, if Starbuck isn't town, that's the most brilliant fake-claim I've ever heard. Buzz Lightyear is the definition of a Vanilla Townie.

Unvote

I think I've given enough role info at this point. It should be rather obvious why he's a watcher, although not so obvious why he's a conditional watcher.

That's the scummiest thing you've said the whole game. You've claimed. Keeping information back now is useless. Besides, it will help me discern whether you're fake-claiming.

And then says the following:

Between Starbuck's fakeclaim and me recently seeing Toy Story & Toy Story 2 in 3D, I can't get this scene out of my head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-1xI1nbao

So if he thinks I'm fakeclaiming, why isn't he voting for me?

[Starbuck]

On Gorrad:

He never random voted, but votes for Brandi because she agreed with KMD that not random voting is odd. Almost all the games here on MS start with a random vote of some kind, I don't like that Gorrad would vote Brandi for such a ridiculous reason, but wouldn't vote KMD for the same thing. He explains his logic in this post. He thinks that KMD did something stupid and since Brandi agreed with him that made her scummy.

I also don't like how he tries to justify his lurking via this post and this post. He then says it's part of his gamestyle (which he states is anti-town) , which I haven't seen before. I've played previous games with Gorrad and I really haven't seen this gamestyle as he so puts it.

He barely says anything about me until this post when he says he fully endorses my wagon, and votes for me in the following post.

After Crazy plants the lie that I fakeclaimed, Gorrad is all over it saying that he thinks that we both just slipped, when I know I didn't.

So I will state this again, how is the following an absolute?

Crazy said fakeclaim, then quickly hushed it up. That means he knows you fakeclaimed. That means you fakeclaimed. That means you're both scum.

Why is Gorrad taking Crazy's word? Why isn't he thinking that Crazy could be (and very will is) bluffing?

[Starbuck]

How can you justify that? You've noticed that he hasn't been back since he posted that.

So you are now answering for him.

[Starbuck]

Jazzmyn random votes Monkey, and then unvotes him here because she thinks that him having 5 votes so early in the game is an awful lot.

She posts some pretty decent observations in this post and this post.

I think she makes a very good point about Chamber, which is definitely something I've been trying to explain as well.

Chamber, on the other hand, came in, dropped a fourth vote on Monkey and then quickly unvoted. Ever since then, he seems to be either defending or buddying up to Monkey, and voting for those who have criticized and voted for Monkey. He also casts votes without explanations and says he doesn’t give reasons along side votes. (I don’t even know what a “side vote” is but voting without reasons is not helpful to the town). He comes across strongly as scummy to me.

All in all though, she really doesn't post much, and I would like to hear more from her.

[Starbuck]

I think you both just did.

Quoted for truth. How else does Crazy know that Starbuck's claim is fake?

Unvote: chamber
Vote: Starbuck
Major HoS: Crazy

He's initially a bit of an antagonist (spelling?), so why not make him scum?

The spelling looks right to me, and Firefox isn't complaining that it's misspelled either.

This post bothers me in the fact that SC has been defending me a good part of today, and then just turns around and votes me with no reasoning whatsoever.

[Starbuck]

Monkey, I hope you are prepared to not be able to watch tonight. And that's not AtE, that's FACT.

[Starbuck]

I would hammer myself to move the game along if I was scum. Since I'm not scum, I'm not going to hammer myself.

[Starbuck]

I corrected the mod before my vote is on Chamber. Gimme a sec and I'll link to it.

[Starbuck]

Mod - This is the second time I've posted about the vote count error, this post being the first time.

Via this post, my vote is on Chamber, and not on Monkey

[Starbuck]

I would hammer myself to move the game along if I was scum. Since I'm not scum, I'm not going to hammer myself.

You supposedly believe my rc yet your vote is still on me? Hammer, please.

Taking this back yet, Monkey? Because you are wrong.

[Starbuck]

Ok, you want role info, fine. I'm done trying to save myself, this town is doomed anyways.

Unvote

Vote: Starbuck

I'm frustrated and I've had enough.

[Starbuck]

It's not worth playing when people are going out of their way to make it unfun.

[Starbuck]

Not to mention gives us info on the Starbuck-Crazy scumpair theory.

Which isn't going to happen because I WILL FLIP AS BUZZ LIGHTYEAR, VANILLA TOWNIE.

[Starbuck]

Unvote

[Starbuck]

I keep thinking it's 5 to lynch instead of 7.

/sigh

I fail.

[Starbuck]

Hey, all. It's a long holiday weekend here above the 49th parallel (Canadian Thanksgiving) so I've been busy with family stuff.

It appears that Starbuck self-voted when she thought that it would be a hammer, which is uber-scummy. It turns out that she was wrong about the vote count, but the action remains scummy, sufficiently so that I am going to:

Unvote
Vote: Starbuck

That's L-1.

I was self-voting because it was pretty obvious the town wasn't going to move anywhere, and I was going to end the day since the town wasn't doing so.

I find you to be uber scummy for not seeing this, and to think I had a town read on you.

[Starbuck]

Vote: Jazzmyn

For barely posting and coming in when it's opportunistic for her.

[Starbuck]

I was self-voting because it was pretty obvious the town wasn't going to move anywhere, and I was going to end the day since the town wasn't doing so.

This is not pro-town. Please do not do this ever.

I understand the frustration, but that is never what you should do.

You live, you learn.

[Starbuck]

Well I'm at L-1 and I already claimed.

I do think that Neopi is full of crap though. Why not come up with your own case?

[Starbuck]

I was thinking about coming up with cases for everyone on my wagon, but it's just a waste of time if I'm just gonna die anyways whether you guys believe me or not.

Unvote

Vote: Neopi

At least until he comes up with his own case and isn't piggybacking off of 5 other people.

[Starbuck]

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:24 pm

I would hammer myself to move the game along if I was scum. Since I'm not scum, I'm not going to hammer myself.

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:41 pm

Ok, you want role info, fine. I'm done trying to save myself, this town is doomed anyways.

Unvote

Vote: Starbuck

I'm frustrated and I've had enough.

I'm sorry, but saying that if you were scum you would hammer yourself, and then trying to hammer yourself 17 minutes later sure looks like scum to me.

There is nothing "opportunistic" about me voting you at L-2 after you purported to self-hammer in such a scummy fashion.

Also, while I do not post much, I am not "lurking" - I just don't get a lot of time to read and post due to the site being blocked at work, leaving only short periods of time in the evening for me to play during the week. This weekend was Thanksgiving in Canada and I was away for most of it, and I made a special effort to get online and caught up yesterday.

I remain suspicious of chamber and Gorrad, but will do a complete re-read when I can.

I see that I now have two more pages to catch up on since yesterday, which I will do tonight.

Regards,
Jazz

I definitely think that you keep using excuses for not posting.

[Starbuck]

chamber wrote:

Starbuck wrote:
How am I being anti-town? I'm just trying to gauge Monkey's reaction

.

Starbuck wrote:
Wow, Monkey. You seem to be getting worked up over something so small.

In what way do statements like this help you judge his reaction?


You responded to this last time but it didn't actually answer the question and I think its relevent now. What I point out here is my main issue with you, though it carried forward to future posts. It never felt like you were trying to figure out his alignment, only trying to paint him as scum the whole time.


chamber wrote:
Also, I just reread you[starbuck] in iso, and I seriously want a full case, in your words, against monkey.


You never responded to this, please do.

this summus up my point espically starbucks reaction

You are still parroting off of others and not coming up with your own case. New or not, you say you've played mafia before.

[Starbuck]

On this forum, normally, if you don't come up with your own case, new to the game or not, it's seen as being scummy and just not being able to do so.

You have no comments on anyone else other than me? No questions for me or anyone else?

[Starbuck]

Neopi, you are tunneling on me with just a few specific points about other people's cases on me. You have brought nothing new to the table, other than the fact that you seem to not care to make your own case.

What about everything else that's happened in the thread? I highly suggest that you go through the thread (while using Notepad to arrange your thoughts) and come up with some type of analysis.

[Starbuck]

Neopi, why such a staunch defense of Gorrad?

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck, why did you say that you'd only ever self vote if you were scum, and yet you ended up self-voting? Do you have any explanation for this? You haven't actually responded to this, you just talked about her lurking, as if you were trying to take attention off of her statement.

Actually I *DID* respond to this, it's growing rather tiresome repeating myself. A little attention to detail from quite a few people would be very much appreciated.

You can refer to this post where I quoted Jazz and this post.

I also realize why I keep thinking it's 5 to lynch instead of 7. I replace into a lot of Newbie games (please reference my Wiki if you don't believe me), and Day 1 is always 5 to lynch.

So how was I trying to take attention off her statement if I already replied to her?

[Starbuck]

I was just frustrated, and I was ready to be out of this game because at that point it had become very unfun.

[Starbuck]

Why don't you provide the analysis post that has been asked of you? Rather than skimming along?

[Starbuck]

Now it's turning into an argument about flavor instead of actual scumhunting? Coming from both KMD and Monkey, two people who I do consider very experienced at this game, bothers me a lot.

Monkey, are you getting at the word "classic" and saying that Toy Story isn't quite the "classic" that Llama had in mind when making this game? If so, you raise a pretty good point. If not, I want to make that point.

Yes, that's my point.

Who's to say that Toy Story is not a classic? They are about to release a third one! Here's a good question for both of you, how long must a movie be out before it's considered a classic?

It released in 1995, just shy of 15 years ago.

Here's a list of some other movies that released in 1995:

Apollo 13
Braveheart
Casino
Empire Records
Hackers
Judge Dredd
Jumanji (oh look! Another CLASSIC kids movie!)
Mallrats
Pochahontas (even better! Another CLASSIC Disney movie)
The Usual Suspects

I think the success of the movie, no matter when it was released is what makes it a classic or not.


Just for good measure, here's the link to Classic on Wikipedia. There are different definitions, but here's what pertains to our situation...

A work of popular culture that inspires devotion or respect is often called a classic.

* Cult classic, a film that has acquired a highly devoted but relatively small group of fans.
* Instant classic, a work of popular culture, particularly popular music, that inspires instant devotion and the belief that it will be considered a classic in future.

For all of you going on about the fact that Toy Story is Pixar only, you should check out the following links and see that it was a joint effort between Disney and Pixar, so therefore makes Toy Story a Disney movie.

http://disney.go.com/toystory/

©

Disney / Pixar.

All rights reserved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Story

and to quote from the Wiki page

Pixar's Oscar-winning short film Tin Toy (directed by Lasseter) and its CAPS project were among works that gained Disney's attention and, after meetings in 1990 with Jeffrey Katzenberg, Pixar pitched a television special called A Tin Toy Christmas. By July 1991,

Disney and Pixar signed an agreement to work on a film

, based on the Tin Toy characters, called Toy Story.[8] The deal gave Pixar a three-film deal (with Toy Story being the first) as well as 10% of the films' profits.

I think the classic vs non classic case is very weak, as well as using flavor to revote and I definitely think the only reason that Monkey is going after me is because of OMGUS, which is also weak.

[Starbuck]

Wow, you really just asked for people to claim (more or less) on Day 1.

[Starbuck]

Wow, you really just asked for people to claim (more or less) on Day 1.

You really like to exaggerate what I'm asking for. This is nothing like a claim.

Not exaggerating. You are wanting people to reveal what era they are from. That in and of itself is partially claiming.

[Starbuck]

Wow, you really just asked for people to claim (more or less) on Day 1.

You really like to exaggerate what I'm asking for. This is nothing like a claim.

Not exaggerating. You are wanting people to reveal what era they are from. That in and of itself is partially claiming.

Explain how knowing what year a movie is from for a player helps the mafia.

OMG, I know you are not this dense.

If the mafia knows what year the movie is from, they can look to see what Disney movies were released. Since it seems like only main characters are being used then they could narrow down even farther as to who a person may be, and depending on the character figure out if they are a PR.

They can use the basis of your claim as Peter Pan being a watcher and go from there.

[Starbuck]

I didn't even ask for the year though, I just asked if it was afer 1980. The insults aren't necessary.

I haven't insulted you at all. You will definitely know when I'm being insulting and I haven't been at all in this game.

[Starbuck]

Why 1980 though? The 1980s era movies are very different from the 1990s era movies or the 2000 era movies.

[Starbuck]

I find it a little disturbing that Starbuck is overreacting so much to everything I do(my RVS vote reason being the same, my classics idea). I've never played in a game where she was scum, so I can't say if it's a scum tell or not, but usually overreacting is a scum tell. Townies know if they are lynched it doesn't hurt their team as much as a scum being lynched hurts theirs, especially since Starbuck is claiming vanilla.

The funny part of this all is that I'm not even overreacting. I'm just asking questions. It strikes me odd that you take offense to everything I say. I can't ask you a question/question your motives without you getting offended.

I am only vanilla, and if my actions get me lynched today so be it. At least, I know I've helped the town garner information to help out later on in the game.

[Starbuck]

Also, you are a liar about not playing a game with me that I was scum.

Mini 814 - Neighbour Mafia

You even hammered me.

[Starbuck]

Also, since you are continually citing my "overreactions" do you care to cite them? Or will you just keep on with the blasphemy?

[Starbuck]

According to you you are innocent about everything and all arguments against you are baseless. Yet you do not defend yourself well.

Comments like this:

You just said that your role is conditional as long as we don't lynch a townie. I'm telling you that if I'm lynched then you won't be able to watch.

This is not an appeal to emotion. This is fact. You said that if a townie is lynched then you won't be able to watch, but just now you said the following:

Looking at the whole picture, her overreactions, her vanilla claim, her movie being in the '90s(lynching her would give us info as to if these kind of movies would be in the town), I think signs point to a starbuck lynch at this point.

I take this as you doubting my scumminess with the fact of mentioning that it would give info for the town, but wouldn't it screw your watch ability tonight? Quite a contradiction.

Well, I know they are wrong because I am town. And if the wagon continues, at least it will garner info for the town because I know there is scum on my wagon.

OMG, I know you are not this dense.

And other appeals to emotion like this don't sound like a townie using logical arguments. They sound like scum trying to get people lynched on emotional arguments.

Explain how that's an appeal to emotion because I don't see it. I know that by me dying it gives our PRs another day to do their work, and I don't deny that fact. I know that we definitely have some opportunistic scum that are using me as a scapegoat to make the town lose a person today.

I have played quite a few games with you, Monkey, and I seriously do not know what's with you this game. Unless, you have been town in every other game and this time you are scum. I don't know.

[Starbuck]

And Monkey, can you just explain why Peter Pan is a "conditional" watcher?

He said awhile back that as long as a townie wasn't lynched then he'd be able to watch. I can't remember what post it was, but I can find it for you since he seems to keep missing this question every time you ask it.

[Starbuck]

Crazy, here's the claim post for you.

[Starbuck]

How was I being insulting there? All I said is that I don't get what's with you, and that's an insult too? This is mafia. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. It's as simple as that.

So what happened to you wanting to be able to use your ability? If you are pro-town, I would say that you wouldn't want to lynch a townie, and now you do? You DID just contradict yourself.

[Starbuck]

This is not an appeal to emotion. This is fact. You said that if a townie is lynched then you won't be able to watch, but just now you said the following:

This is fact?!?!?! This statement is really bothersome. You are not a confirmed townie. You should be lynched on this statement alone.

Where did I say I was confirmed? Where? I would like you to find a post where I said that I was confirmed.

You stated in your role claim that if a townie is lynched that you won't be able to use your watch ability. I just linked that to your claim a few posts up. Your role claim is fact not me being confirmed. Please stop misrepresenting me.

Looking at the whole picture, her overreactions, her vanilla claim, her movie being in the '90s(lynching her would give us info as to if these kind of movies would be in the town), I think signs point to a starbuck lynch at this point.

I take this as you doubting my scumminess with the fact of mentioning that it would give info for the town, but wouldn't it screw your watch ability tonight? Quite a contradiction.

It's not a contridiction. We can get information and lynch scum.

When/If I'm lynched and you can't use your watch ability, don't bitch about it since you are the number one person pushing my lynch.

[Starbuck]

How was I being insulting there? All I said is that I don't get what's with you, and that's an insult too? This is mafia. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. It's as simple as that.

I've given multiple arguments against you, and you're saying everyone of them is bogus, just like you say against everyone else attacking you. Saying there is something wrong with my play IS insulting, and another appeal to emotion, considering we don't know if you are scum.

Because they have been bogus. The "Is Toy Story a classic movie?" case and so on completely distracted from the game. I showed links and proved that Toy Story is considered to be a classic movie as well as a part of Disney's collection.

Mr. Big Shot, you aren't confirmed either. Just because you pulled out a PR doesn't mean you aren't a Mafia watcher.

So what happened to you wanting to be able to use your ability? If you are pro-town, I would say that you wouldn't want to lynch a townie, and now you do? You DID just contradict yourself.

Of course I don't want to lynch a townie. But I believe you are scum.

1) Overreactions to RVS vote and classics theory

2) Repeated appeal to emotions(as quoted before)

3) Implying you are a confirmed townie.

Wait, wait, wait. Who overreacted to RVS? It wasn't me who got up and left the game because I was having a temper tantrum.

I've already answered #2 and I haven't appealed to emotion.

And as I said up above, show me a post where I said I was confirmed because I have not.

[Starbuck]

I didn't not say that, quit misrepresenting me please and take your time and read.

[Starbuck]

I don't believe I'm misinterpreting you. I'm entitled to my interpretation. That's what slips are about.

I believe I've stated my argument well and we've hashed it out enough so leave to others to decide from here.

You wouldn't believe so.

How bout the fact that you DID play a game with me as scum (as I linked on the last page) and that you even hammered me in that game?

[Starbuck]

So you see no difference in my play here and my play there?

Might wanna do a little re-reading. *hint hint*

[Starbuck]

Vote: Neopi

Putting my vote back.



That was weird, what's even weirder is that you guys are still pushing for my lynch instead of looking at other suspects. Tunneling much?

[Starbuck]

There are several movies post 1980 that could still be considered "classic". The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, for instance. This is different than the CGI Toy Story.

So you are now trying to state that because Toy Story is CGI that it's not a classic? You're beating a dead horse.

[Starbuck]

I think that this line of questioning could lead to possible game-breaking stuff going on, and before you do so, please stop this subject.

[Starbuck]

You guys are trying to figure out what the mod was thinking. That's not along the lines of trying to break the game?

[Starbuck]

Games that become all about the flavor turn out rather badly, because then it's just a question of who's got what in their PM as it already is starting to.

Going this way will suck enjoyment out of the game for many people.

[Starbuck]

the mod kill thing seems suspicious.....


possibly the mod dosent like that?

ocrrection very likely

What in the hell are you talking about?

[Starbuck]

Mod: Did you just modkill Kmd4390?

kmd was not modkilled

Quoting this because you guys don't read back and argue about things that have already been settled.

[Starbuck]

Also you continue to ignore the request, from multiple players, to explain the flavor of your conditional ability. I am happy with my vote.

Explain the "multiple players".

I think most players believe my roleclaim. Therefore I am not going to give any more info about my role to the mafia.

Semioldguy and Crazy have both asked for you to elaborate. I did it for you by linking to your past posts on the last page I believe, but I'm not sure if they've seen it.

[Starbuck]

Here is Monkey's claim post:

Fine, I'm tired of the bickering. I could easily string out this argument, but I won't.

I'm

Peter Pan, Town Conditional Watcher

.

I'm a watcher as long as we don't lynch a townie.

\


Right below that post Crazy asks what conditional means, but Monkey says it right there in his claim. So I believe he did elaborate, so I can see his frustration when he has already elaborated and people are asking him to do so still.

[Starbuck]

I suck at quotes, dammit.

Mod - Can you fix the above for me? Thank you!

tags fixed

[Starbuck]

That's fine, three players, two of which are towards the top of my scumlist. So I don't put much credence in it.

Are you including me in that list? I've read and cited your claim post multiple times, and saw what you said about your condition.

[Starbuck]

That's fine, three players, two of which are towards the top of my scumlist. So I don't put much credence in it.

Are you including me in that list? I've read and cited your claim post multiple times, and saw what you said about your condition.

I thought you said in 614 that you were agreeing with Semioldguy, so yes, but I apologize if there was a misunderstanding regarding that issue.

I said this:

Semioldguy and Crazy have both asked for you to elaborate. I did it for you by linking to your past posts on the last page I believe, but I'm not sure if they've seen it.

How quick you are to try and misrepresent me.

[Starbuck]

Did you guys not see in Monkey's claim post which I have linked MULTIPLE TIMES that he explained the condition of his watching?

He can watch as long as TOWNIE ISN'T LYNCHED. The lack of attention to detail here is really starting to bug me, but Monkey has explained himself (in my eyes) to fullest that he can without quoting or going into modkill land.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, the question is for MM to fill in this blank. "Peter Pan is a conditional watcher because in the movie he _____________".

Gotcha.

My bad for misunderstanding.

[Starbuck]

I was asking the same thing, semioldguy.

It's all distracting from the actual scumhunt, unless it really is the scum doing it, then it's definitely beneficial to them.

[Starbuck]

You are the only one I want more role info from. Partial claims are scummy.

Did Starbuck really flavor claim? If not, shouldnt you accuse her as well?

Even as a vanilla townie, I have flavor too.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck
I'd like to hear your flavor as well. Why are you, Buzz Lightyear, vanilla?

Pretty much, since Buzz doesn't fly and "falling with style" just doesn't cut it, his laser is just an LED, and the toy stores are overloaded with look alikes, Buzz is just another toy.

[Starbuck]

And I okay'd the above the mod before posting.

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: And I okay'd the above with the mod before posting to make sure I didn't cross any PM quoting lines.

[Starbuck]

So Monkey, gonna flavor claim now?

I'm going to assume that your refusal means that you are hiding something.

[Starbuck]

I really don't care what scum think. I'm not in a position vote-wise to have to claim anything.

Unvote

Vote: Monkey

Who definitely now more scummy than Neopi.

[Starbuck]

ooops

Vote:monkeyman

Care to read the thread at all?

That's an opportunistic vote if I've ever seen one.

[Starbuck]

Unofficial Vote Count

Monkey - semioldguy, Starbuck, Neopi
Neopi - StrangerCoug, chamber
Starbuck - Gorrad, Yank

Not Voting: Crazy, Brandi, Monkey



Jazzmyn, I found this on my re-read while looking for votes, and I'm pretty sure it won't count as a vote:

StrangerCougar's post asking the mod if Kmd had been modkilled looks suspicious to me because it seems apparent that if LlamaFluff had modkilled a player, he would have said so explicitly, and StrangerCougar is an experienced enough player to know that. His post looks like he's trying to distance himself from the daykill by pretending he didn't know what it was. FoS: StrangerCougar

Revote: Starbuck

Regards,
Jazz

If you're gonna vote me, you might as well do it right, that's why I didn't include it up there.

[Starbuck]

Mine just said stuff about the movie that if you already watched it, you would already know.

I think Monkey is pissed is now using adhom by calling people lazy to try and appeal to emotion.

He is definitely making himself scummier every time he posts. I was even willing to back off him, even though he wasn't backing off of me. Now, with this recent refusal, leads me to believe that maybe he isn't who he says he is since he won't provide flavor.

[Starbuck]

Mine just said stuff about the movie that if you already watched it, you would already know.

I think Monkey is pissed is now using adhom by calling people lazy to try and appeal to emotion.

He is definitely making himself scummier every time he posts. I was even willing to back off him, even though he wasn't backing off of me. Now, with this recent refusal, leads me to believe that maybe he isn't who he says he is since he won't provide flavor.

This is making a mountain out of a molehill. A few players were mad because of my idea of looking at movie era's to help determine alignment, and now they are trying to retaliate at me. There's nothing scummy about not wanting to give out your flavor info. I obviously have it, and just don't want to give it out to scum. The scumminess is the rolefishing that's going on by Semioldguy and Starbuck.

WTF are you talking about? You were rolefishing when you were talking about movie era's to help determine alignment. How is what you said okay but what Semioldguy said not?

You just contradicted yourself yet again.

[Starbuck]

Mine just said stuff about the movie that if you already watched it, you would already know.

I think Monkey is pissed is now using adhom by calling people lazy to try and appeal to emotion.

He is definitely making himself scummier every time he posts. I was even willing to back off him, even though he wasn't backing off of me. Now, with this recent refusal, leads me to believe that maybe he isn't who he says he is since he won't provide flavor.

This is making a mountain out of a molehill. A few players were mad because of my idea of looking at movie era's to help determine alignment, and now they are trying to retaliate at me. There's nothing scummy about not wanting to give out your flavor info. I obviously have it, and just don't want to give it out to scum. The scumminess is the rolefishing that's going on by Semioldguy and Starbuck.

WTF are you talking about? You were rolefishing when you were talking about movie era's to help determine alignment. How is what you said okay but what Semioldguy said not?

You just contradicted yourself yet again.

I didn't ask about the name of the role at all. So you are wrong yet again. Trying to find out if there is a pattern to scum roles helps town, obviously.

But you are still rolefishing and could reveal a town PR to the scum. Why don't you see this?

[Starbuck]

Hypothesizing game makeup on this site is liable to get you modkilled.

[Starbuck]

Hypothesizing game makeup on this site is liable to get you modkilled.

I don't see why. It's a legitimate tactic.

You are trying to outguess the mod and it's distracting from scumhunting.

[Starbuck]

Mod - I think it's just another couple hours to 72, but please prod Brandi, if she doesn't show up before that.

[Starbuck]

Hypothesizing game makeup on this site is liable to get you modkilled.

I don't see why. It's a legitimate tactic.

You are trying to outguess the mod and it's distracting from scumhunting.

Not if I'm right.

And like I said, I'm not even pursuing the issue even more, it's you and semigold that are complaining about the tactic after it happened and not willing to move on to something else. Besides, you're only interested in scum hunting if it doesn't involve you.

While you are only interested in scumhunting those who are scumhunting you.

[Starbuck]

Fine,

He's a watcher because he watches people out of windows.

He's conditional because pixie dust relies on happy thoughts and killing townies isn't happy.

Satisfied?

Why the fuck didn't you do this earlier?

Tell me why I should remove my vote on you for being so scumtastic.

[Starbuck]

Your flavor makes sense in accordance with your claim. I really didn't learn anything new about you, but your flavor supports your claim. So I don't understand what was so difficult about that.

Unvote

, for now

I really don't want overzealous townies or scum to quickhammer.

[Starbuck]

I thought about it after I posted 713, and his claim and flavor DO make sense. So the logical thing right now was to unvote.

[Starbuck]

Your flavor makes sense. Withholding it for that long does not.

This.

[Starbuck]

Your flavor makes sense. Withholding it for that long does not.

This.

ALthough I agree with this statement, I don't agree with the conclusion that it doesn't make sense in a scummy way. It just doesn't make sense period.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here.

[Starbuck]

@Jazzmyn - I claimed my flavor well before Monkey.

[Starbuck]

@Jazzmyn - I claimed my flavor well before Monkey.

In what way is this at all relevant to what he said?

SHE said in that big long post that I didn't claim my flavor, but if she had been around instead of active lurking, she would have seen that I did.

[Starbuck]

@Jazzmyn - I claimed my flavor well before Monkey.

In what way is this at all relevant to what he said?

SHE said in that big long post that I didn't claim my flavor, but if she had been around instead of active lurking, she would have seen that I did.

No, that's not what I said at all. Perhaps you could read that "big long post" again, for comprehension this time. And I have not been lurking, actively or otherwise, but nice try.

Regards,
Jazz

I did re-read and I apologize for being wrong. I was catching up right when I first woke up this morning.

But you have been active lurking enough to get yourself prodded. You used the excuse of the site being down, but when you replied we had all been back to posting for quite a bit.

[Starbuck]

Vote: Neopi

I'm tired of his lurking, and his constant "I'm catching up, I swear!" posts.

Lynch all lurkers.

[Starbuck]

I did re-read and I apologize for being wrong. I was catching up right when I first woke up this morning.

But you have been active lurking enough to get yourself prodded. You used the excuse of the site being down, but when you replied we had all been back to posting for quite a bit.

I accept the apology in your first paragraph, but I have to correct you on the second paragraph, because it is also untrue. I have not been lurking, I have not been prodded at all, and I did not say anything even remotely resembling that which you attribute to me. You really need to stop making stuff up.

Regards,
Jazz

Not making stuff up...

Prod received, site was down yesterday O_o

Mixing up people

I'm going to stop posting when I first wake up.

[Starbuck]

This is why I really don't like going into the whole flavor debate because it detracts from hunting scum. Now people are just looking for well who's flavor makes the least sense.

[Starbuck]

This is why I really don't like going into the whole flavor debate because it detracts from hunting scum. Now people are just looking for well who's flavor makes the least sense.

go play normals.

Wow, that's the only thing you have to say to that?

/sigh

[Starbuck]

Ok, so based on the flavor received from myself and Monkey, what are your judgments, oh holy one?

[Starbuck]

i am Lady from Lady and the Tramp, Super sniffer



im a combination watcher tracker, but i can be distracted by the tramp and niether of us know our alignmentsp

both me a nd the tramp who i dont know get the report

and the tramp distraction can only be activated after d2

I smell neighbors/lovers.

Yeah, the lurking is bad. I still think Starbuck is guilty but evidently everyone else doesn't.

Unvote:
Vote: Neopi

Nice AtE.

Also, you weren't voting for anyone, votes got reset when KMD died. Did you happen to miss this fact?

This would fall in line with my power restriction...


Unvote
Vote: Starbuck

I think I smell a slip here. Monkey's a watcher, and Neopi is a tracker. Hmm.

[Starbuck]

It would fall in line that Monkey is the Tramp with his emphasis on "classic" Disney movies.

[Starbuck]

Add that Starbuck's trying to tell players how to play and psuedo-threatening them, rather than allow the mod to decide what is or isn't allowed doesn't reek of someone who is trying to decipher information, rather someone that is trying to surpress it.

I don't think I ever told anyone how they should play. You are reaching here.

I can see how what I said earlier about possible modkills could be seen as threatening, but it was not meant to be. I felt like the discussion was turning that direction. So rather than lose a player, I was trying to bring the discussion away from that subject.

I also definitely think that you are reaching by saying that I'm trying to surpress information when I have not. I have freely given answers to ever question asked of me, whereas you have deflected and refused to answer a lot of what has been asked of you.

[Starbuck]

I'm not the Tramp, nor am I affiliated with Neopi. Starbuck's interpretation of my supposed slip is way off. I meant that he can only use his power after day 2, I lose my power if we lynch a townie, We are both claiming power roles, and both claiming restrictions on our power.

Neopi is claiming that he doesn't know who the Tramp is. You could very well be the Tramp.

Peter Pan is very commonly known, and I forgot who said it early but words like pixie dust, windows, and happiness are almost synonymous with Peter Pan. You could have easily made up your flavor which is what took you so long to claim it.

[Starbuck]

For how long it took him to actually claim his flavor, I think it's a good possibility.

[Starbuck]

You sound like you are reaching again. I just threw out a theory.

I can't do anything, but give my opinion and help decipher who is or is not scum. While I'm still alive in this game (and any game I play), I will be doing that every chance I get.

[Starbuck]

Essentially chamber's in two games with me, and I'm thinking if he can't get me lynched in one, he's going to keep suspicion on me in the other.

[Starbuck]

Essentially chamber's in two games with me, and I'm thinking if he can't get me lynched in one, he's going to keep suspicion on me in the other.

I wouldn't let my 'in game' opinion of you carry over from one game to another. I honestly don't like you very much as a player from what I've seen (which is admittedly a small sample size), and I may have let the dislike carry over into me being a little to harsh with my 'go play normals' comment. I do however still support its intent which was later explained by me, and others.

Do me favor and take your personal opinions out of this so we can play the game and have fun. That was out of line and there was no need for it.

Weren't you the one who jumped all over me about being insulting to Monkey (when I never meant to be)? And now you both are doing the same thing to me? Quite hypocritical, I think.

[Starbuck]

It didn't very well sound like an apology, but whatever.

Back to your regularly scheduled mafia game...

[Starbuck]

I'm either for Monkey or Neopi. I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us.

[Starbuck]

her lynch gives us the most information.

MM, explain this.

^^

[Starbuck]

You know Monkey for someone who's been pretty nasty all game to anyone who brings a case against him. You throw the word "insulting" around way too easily.

[Starbuck]

There are decent cases against you, but obviously it doesn't matter what type of case someone brings against you because in your eyes, it will never be decent.

[Starbuck]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

[Starbuck]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

Your "complaint" on me was that I am in multiple games and caught up in other games before I got to this one, but as it was said before, as long as I catch up here, it really doesn't matter the order because I still kept posting here.

So your argument is null and void.

[Starbuck]

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

[Starbuck]

Gorrad, why are you dancing around Crazy's question?

I would definitely like to see your answer to it.

[Starbuck]

Could have been, but definitely was not.

I voted for Neopi because I found his claim and answers to the questions asked of him to not be up to par.

While Monkey and I clashed, I really think that he let his personal feelings get in the way of playing the game. Monkey's claim, though, and flavor (once he finally told us) definitely made sense.

What bothers me are those that didn't switch off of Monkey to Neopi with the fact that his claim made sense. Someone stated earlier that if they switched off Monkey, we wouldn't have had a lynch, which is not true. All that was needed was one person to vote for Neopi.

[Starbuck]

Brandi has started to bother me a bit, so I decided to read her in iso....

In Post 33, she says that she doesn't think Monkey's random vote was scummy. What bothers me here is that all she sees is the vote and not the situation surrounding it.

She also sees Gorrad's not voting as odd and is fencesitting on whether or not she thinks it's scummy. She wants him to give a reason for his non-vote.


In Post 39, she doesn't see the logic in Gorrad voting for her. She doesn't see how it's odd that she agreed with KMD and really didn't come up with her own opinion. She, then, seems to get a bit overdefensive:

KMD said it was scummy, I said it was odd. It IS Odd, because of the fact that MOST PLAYERS random vote. ODD = not normal/weird.

She, then, asks Gorrad (again) why he didn't random vote in Post 40, and again in Post 43. She seems to be tunneling on it.

The tone of 43 bothers me:

Gorrad: People random vote because it's what you do in the Random Voting Stage. *shrugs* I wasn't telling you there was anything WRONG with your not voting. Just wanted to know why you didn't. If I can remember correctly, you did random vote in the last game I played with you.

She thinks that Monkey and I were both equally throwing hissy fits, but provides nothing to back it up in Post 44.


In Post 66,

About Monkey: The fact that he just "gave up" literally to say "I'm going to wait until I'm no longer under fire" feels more scummy to me than his actual argument with Starbuck.

Also, Crazy's first point against Monkey makes no sense whatsoever. I can't fathom what he's trying to say with that sentence.

I'd like to hear some of Crazy's thoughts on other players.

Instead of saying that Monkey's giving up IS scummy, she skirts around it by saying that it FEELS scummy.

Instead of asking Crazy to elaborate on his first point, she seems to put him down here with the choice words of "can't fathom what he's trying to say".



In Post 99,

She finally unvotes her RVS vote (me), but her vote of Gorrad definitely feels like OMGUS.

It's really annoying that Monkey seems to be purposely ignoring this game until the wagon on him is gone. I've never really seen this happen before, but I feel this is a very anti-town action. Even with a wagon on him he could still be here, engaging in/starting discussion and trying to catch scum. Monkey comes off as more anti-town than anything currently, but still slightly scummy.

In the above, she elaborates more about Monkey's ignoring the game. Up above she says that it FEELS scummy, but here she is saying that it's anti town, but slightly scummy. It seems like she's backtracking.

Gorrad is also being very non-committal in genreal. The only thing that he has done is vote me without giving any actual explanation. Odd that he passed off KMD's points as nothing, yet still voted me when I said something about the subject. I suppose he didn't want to vote the person voting for him, because he didn't want to appear to be OMGUS'ing anyone.

KMD comes off as a very aggressive player, so his reaction makes me feel like he is scared. He has also ignored my points and was selective in answering anything directed towards him. Every single post he has made thus far has been a single line long. (except for one, which was TWO lines long) His first "non-vote" was him saying that he hoped he'd stay alive longer in this game. He has come off as very hesitant. It's still early in the day, but there are multiple things going on in which he could give input on.

I don't get how Gorrad was non-committal. He voted for Brandi in his second post.

She then misrepresents Gorrad by saying that he voted her without any explanation. Post 38 proves otherwise. She is definitely twisting his words. I really don't like how she just dismisses his vote on her by saying that he didn't want to appear to be OMGUSing KMD. Having played with KMD and Gorrad in the same game before, I definitely know that he's more experienced than that and probably has a better read on KMD than you do.

To me, it seems like she definitely has more of a case on KMD here than Gorrad. Like maybe she's just mentioning KMD so it doesn't come back later to bite her?

But she votes Gorrad, and I really don't see how she voted for Gorrad when she definitely has a better case on KMD.




In Post 116, she goes back to tunneling on how Gorrad didn't random vote. The funny part of this whole thing was that he really didn't say anything during RVS and then he voted for Brandi for parroting off KMD. It was after this that she decided to go on the rampage about him not random voting.


I don't really see how asking Monkey who he thinks is town in Post 138 is pro-town. It is rather redundant. Scum already know who the non-scum are. How is it a pro-town question, especially when asked to a player that's recently been under a lot of fire? She then says what I just said here:

Um. Scum knows who the town is... they don't need to *guess* to hit town. And how exactly does your opinion on who is town make them "confirmed" ?

I seriously doubt any scum in ANY game would ever use other players opinions of who's townie or not to direct their kills. That is just senseless.

I don't like how she insinuates here that scum wouldn't take everything going on into account before making their kill here. It sounds like definite distancing.

Opinions and information help the TOWN.

This is not necessarily true. We could inadvertently reveal a PR like we did yesterday with Monkey. We had the info, and 4 people decided to keep their vote on Monkey.

You convieniently DID NOT have a vote on anyone after KMD was erased. I find it scummy that you did not place a vote.

So far, I don't see the case on Monkeyman as being better than my Brandi read. If what Semioldguy said is the only strikes against him, he's not worth lynching yet.

Please, for all our sakes, read the first game if you think my D1 lurking is suspect. It's generally what I do.

Scumtells are scumtells regardless of it's just what a player "does." No free passes for you.

People who play like scum on purpose and to try to say "oh it's how I play, so you can't point fingers at me!" are retarded and I have no sympathy for them~ These types of people always hurt the town.

So my guess is here that you don't even look at meta, even if that meta could be the difference between your town tell and your scum tell on someone?

vote: Neopi

, I am curious as to why he is even still alive. If he's a watcher+tracker... I would think such a power-role would have been targeted by the mafia over chamber... My earlier thoughts of him were that he was more likely newbtown, but since his claim and the dawning of a new day, I get the feeling he is lying.

WIFOM! And attempt at distancing.

I was very M.I.A. for a long while, and didn't really support any of the major wagons. I did have a vote placed before KMD was "erased" though. (Noting in case you thought I wasn't voting AT ALL yesterday)

This post says different. You say that you feel I'm least likely to be scum, but your post reads that you are suspicious of Neopi. So why not vote for him, or

You suddenly drop your suspicions of Gorrad. Why not put your vote back on him after KMD was erased?

Vote: Brandi

[Starbuck]

Mod - Can we have prods on the following


Gorrad
Crazy
YankCane
Brandi

[Starbuck]

But as soon as I post for you to be prodded, you show up, EVERY TIME.

[Starbuck]

We've gone all weekend and not seen any activity. I should have just asked for a mass prod to get things moving again.

Normally, if someone hasn't posted in about 3 days, I ask for a prod.



Is there anyone else on your radar other than Yank?

[Starbuck]

What about my D1 behavior?

[Starbuck]

I've already covered that. Read my posts if you want the case.

I just read you in iso and this is all you said concerning me on Day 1:

From ISO 13:

I also fully endorse the Starbuck wagon. I agree, Starbuck's hunting has been off this game.

From ISO 14:

Scratch that!

Just saw there was one above.

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

You did not talk about me at all until this point, you only say that my hunting "has been off", and then you vote me for no reason of your own.



From ISO 16:

For that matter, the flavor could have him mind-controlled by Zerg, jealous of Woody, gone insane over his lack of powers, or just plain confused.

You are reaching a lot with this statement.



From ISO 17

Crazy said fakeclaim, then quickly hushed it up. That means he knows you fakeclaimed. That means you fakeclaimed. That means you're both scum.

You're too decisive with this statement. Crazy did, in fact, say that he said "fakeclaim" when he meant something else.



From ISO 25

The kill method was 'erased', not 'modkilled'. We have a daykiller, though it's pointless to try and find them as we can't divine if they're vig or SK.

Vote: Starbuck

Then you put your vote right back on me without reason.





So what of any of that shows a case? Because I see none.

[Starbuck]

For the record...

From my Post 273,

@Gorrad - You are not doing the town any good by not participating in discussions and not taking part in scumhunting. You are tunneling on Brandi, what are your thoughts on everyone else playing?

And your Post 281

Starbuck- KMD's probably town, and I'm getting a slight scum lean from Monkey, but other than that it's mostly nulltells at this point. Ask me again D2.

You asked me to ask you again on Day 2, and so I did, or something close to it.

You said then you had a slight scum lean on Monkey and KMD's prob town. Now that both have flipped town, what about me (besides the weak case above) has you unimpressed?

Now you are focusing on SC, where you really didn't talk about him much before.

[Starbuck]

Now you are focusing on SC, where you really didn't talk about him much before.

I looked after reading this, and post #935 is the first time Gorrad mentions me by name (though not the first he addresses me). Some input of his own rather than just "I agree" would help him in his case against me.

That's how he played his case on me, and it seems like he's trying to do the same with you.

[Starbuck]

So Brandi, are you gonna contribute to the game or keep making excuses for your absences?

[Starbuck]

I mean, you can make a big, long post about how you were prodded, but you can't contribute anything else?

[Starbuck]

They aren't "excuses", they are valid reasons. I'm sure everyone else has also been busy this weekend. I'm sorry if you don't celebrate holidays but other people in this world do.

And my "big long post" took no effort or thinking, I just had to read you in iso (and CTRL+F "prod") and quote a few things. Talking about my weekend isn't the same as putting effort into a game.

That post took me 5 minutes. When I actually want to work on CONTRIBUTING to a game I can take upwards of 4 or more hours of my time. I don't like responding to things when I know I don't have time for it or just don't feel like it yet.

I'm sorry princess, but my life doesn't revolve around your schedule or priorities. I'm going to take a shower now, and then probably eat dinner, Oh god I hope that's okay with you!

Do me and everyone else a favor, take your personal crap and remove it from the game.

[Starbuck]

I actually made a case on Brandi, and the fact that you didn't see this rather irks me.

[Starbuck]

But I could still very well be a Vanilla role. I'm not confirmed so saying over and over again that I am does me no justice. I just know what my role is and I told you all the flavor of why I am vanilla.

A lynch on me would definitely be wasted, but it wouldn't be a bad thing since it would protect our PRs for another day. Also, let's not forget that I was not part of that crew that helped get Monkey lynched. I definitely saw where his flavor made sense and immediately backed off. Obviously, not many people are going to see it that way because of our constant 1v1 on Day 1, but C'est La Vie (That's Life).

We have bigger fish to fry. I'm thinking that Brandi or Gorrad would be a good lynch today.

Brandi for her inconsistencies, and Gorrad for not making cases on anyone and parroting off everyone else.

[Starbuck]

I revoted him to put pressure on him to give his flavor, and as soon as he gave his flavor, I unvoted.

I was talking to him, but after Neopi claimed, I was definitely more suspicious of Neopi, but keep spewing lies.

[Starbuck]

If I honestly wanted Monkey lynched after him finally claiming his flavor, my vote would have been on him at the end of the day, but it wasn't. My vote was on Neopi and look, he turned out to be scum.

[Starbuck]

I don't really care for Brandi's overdefensiveness about her absences. I understand V/LA's and I saw her V/LA post, but I asked for her prod on the 2ND of November, not the 1st. If anything Post 943 showed that she's just been following along without posting, which is the definition of active lurking. By lurking and not contributing to the game, you are dishonoring your commitment to the other people who are playing the game. I will ask for a prod every time.

The first time you asked for me to be prodded, I was prodded. It wasn't because of your post, it was because I received a PM.

She then quotes where I asked for a prod and when she received it. Most mods are pretty good at making sure everyone stays active. I try and do my part that if I notice someone has gone about 72 hours without a post, I ask for a prod on that person. Obviously, the mod either saw my post or was already planning on prodding you. I'm not in his head, so I don't know. All I know is that most mods, when they see a request for a prod on someone, normally honor it, since we as players cannot prod each other because that would be breaking the rules.

I saw your V/LA and if you noticed, I asked for a prod on the 2ND of November, my time. If you are on Eastern time, then it was around 6:30-7:00 am my time (as I am 6 hours ahead of the East Coast). I don't like how you insinuate that I didn't take notice of your V/LA, because I did, which is why I asked for a prod on the 2ND of November and not the 1ST. And if anything, me just posting for the prod made you post, which was the whole point.

[Starbuck]

Btw, I use Notepad too. The power in base housing sucks, so I'm always saving my txt documents as I go through in fear of rolling brown outs.

I could relate to Monkey with what he was saying because I don't always read everything before I make posts either. I see it as a short-sighted thing to do, but not a scummy thing.

I can see this, but with only like 7 or 8 posts in the game prior to his first post, short-sightedness was not the case here.

She also sees Gorrad's not voting as odd and is fencesitting on whether or not she thinks it's scummy. She wants him to give a reason for his non-vote.

I said it was odd as in, not normal. I'm not used to people not voting in mafia games, I'm not of the knowledge as to how it could be scummy. I actually tried looking up some info on it in the wiki and didn't find much. There's nothing wrong with asking for a reason.

In Post 39, she doesn't see the logic in Gorrad voting for her. She doesn't see how it's odd that she agreed with KMD and really didn't come up with her own opinion. She, then, seems to get a bit overdefensive:

KMD said it was scummy, I said it was odd. It IS Odd, because of the fact that MOST PLAYERS random vote. ODD = not normal/weird.

You quoting me there invalidates your statement, thank you. Like I said, I never agreed with KMD. If I had agreed with him, I would have said it was scummy. He asked for opinions, and I gave them.

She, then, asks Gorrad (again) why he didn't random vote in Post 40, and again in Post 43. She seems to be tunneling on it.

I dislike it when people don't respond to my questions.

Way to cut off my statement right in the middle to make it look better for yourself. Also, I didn't invalidate myself. You did agree with KMD. All anyone has to do is go back and read the first 2 pages. Anyways, my point here was that you were overdefensive in the part that I quoted.

So you were tunneling on him because he didn't respond to your questions? I'll be honest here. I'm not very impressed with Gorrad's play thus far in this game (and illustrated in my posts about his case on me on page 38), but he did answer your question in Post 41.



I didn't like the tone of 43 because you seem to be talking down to Gorrad. You seem to be riding the horse that "if you are here for the RVS stage, you MUST randomly vote". It's a very odd thing to get on someone about. I've seen plenty of people not vote in RVS. The fact that you were all over him for this fact makes me feel like you either were trying to cast suspicion on him, or you and him were orchestrating some distancing.

You were. You were both throwing hissy fits. Me stating that is irrelevant to the actual game play and a subjective observation. I don't need to "BACK UP" my opinion, thank you.

The only reason why you even used the phrase "hissy fit" was because SC did in Post 42. You say in Post 44 that it LOOKS like we were equally doing so, not that we were. If you felt that way, why didn't you cite any of mine or Monkey's posts?

Also, did you forget that you are playing mafia? You ALWAYS need to back up your opinion.

In Post 66,

About Monkey: The fact that he just "gave up" literally to say "I'm going to wait until I'm no longer under fire" feels more scummy to me than his actual argument with Starbuck.

Also, Crazy's first point against Monkey makes no sense whatsoever. I can't fathom what he's trying to say with that sentence.

I'd like to hear some of Crazy's thoughts on other players.

Instead of saying that Monkey's giving up IS scummy, she skirts around it by saying that it FEELS scummy.

-This is a red herring. I was pointing out at that time, that if ANYTHING that monkey was doing was scummy, it was NOT what most people were pointing out was such. It's like this:

Person A: "This dinner is delicious, the potatoes are the best part!"
Person B: "This dinner isn't really delicious, but if anything is, it's not the potatoes, it's the carrots."

So the only time that you viewed Monkey as scummy was when he gave up? Nothing else that he did struck a chord? I find that really hard to believe.



Continuing this when I get home from work in about 15 min...

[Starbuck]

My vote for Gorrad had nothing to do with his initial vote on me. Otherwise I would have voted him right away.

I think this is scummy because it's like you go out of your way to make that known in Post 99:

I feel my reasoning goes beyond just his vote on me

It definitely seems to me that you wanted to put your vote on him back when he voted you, but you waited so it wouldn't look like OMGUS.

You state that he's been non-commital, which is not true. You state that he voted you without giving any actual explanation, which is not true.

Nice misrepresentation of my words. I meant non-committal to the game in general. Note I said "the only thing he's done."

I didn't misrepresent anything. You stated that he was non-committal. Non-committal to the game in general would mean that he still wouldn't be voting for anyone. He voted for you in his second post, so I would say that would be him committing himself to the game.

Your whole case on him is very, very weak.

Also I hardly see that as an "explanation" That is a STATEMENT, not an explanation. He never said WHY. He never gave REASONS. So no, it doesn't "prove" otherwise.

Yes, he did and yes, it does prove otherwise.

I present Post 38:

Vote: Brandi

I didn't random vote because I didn't see a need to. KMD pointing it out as scummy is utterly ridiculous, but Brandi's agreeing that it's odd is indeed scummy.

Whether or not you like his answer, he answered the question and gave a reason.

In Post 116, she goes back to tunneling on how Gorrad didn't random vote. The funny part of this whole thing was that he really didn't say anything during RVS and then he voted for Brandi for parroting off KMD. It was after this that she decided to go on the rampage about him not random voting.

More misrep once again. The post you linked to was a response to someone else. In that post, I was reiterating something that Gorrad had already previously said. That post was not even an attack against him. Once again, I never "parroted" off of KMD. I was responding to a QUESTION that KMD had made.

I know the post that I linked was a response to someone else. The "@SC" part at the beginning gives that all away.

You keep saying that you felt he was tunneling on you, but you were definitely tunneling on him and the fact that he didn't random vote. People don't have to random vote. Some people do like to wait until some does something suspicious. Your repetition about the subjects feels like you are just trying too hard to get a case on him.

You also state in 116 that

Regardless of what resulted from his non-vote, he did not have any specific intentions.

How do you know what his intentions were?

Care to provide quotes or something to back this up?


Also, you responded to a question that KMD had asked and gave the same opinion that he did. You really didn't come up with your own. Hence, parroting.

It is rather redundant. Scum already know who the non-scum are. How is it a pro-town question, especially when asked to a player that's recently been under a lot of fire? She then says what I just said here:

Um. Scum knows who the town is... they don't need to *guess* to hit town. And how exactly does your opinion on who is town make them "confirmed" ?

I seriously doubt any scum in ANY game would ever use other players opinions of who's townie or not to direct their kills. That is just senseless.

I don't like how she insinuates here that scum wouldn't take everything going on into account before making their kill here. It sounds like definite distancing.

Distancing from what? who? Monkey? He was town.

Did I say anything about Monkey here? Where did you get that from? Did you not read any of my statement?

You said that you'd doubt that scum in any game would ever use the other players opinions of who's town or not to direct their kills. It definitely seems to me that you are insinuating that scum wouldn't take everything going on within the game into account before making their kill.

This felt like definite distancing and/or, as I re-read it now, a scum slip.

Opinions and information help the TOWN.

This is not necessarily true. We could inadvertently reveal a PR like we did yesterday with Monkey. We had the info, and 4 people decided to keep their vote on Monkey.

Opinions and information DO help the town. Whether they help anyone else is irrelevant to the point I was making.

It's still a fact. If we never gave opinions or had any information, the game would never go anywhere.

Note that the power role that was revealed wasn't even NK'd, he was LYNCHED.

You just point blank stated that opinions and info help the Town, which is true and I'm not saying your wrong.

What I am concerned about is the fact that you forgetting that we have scum in the game as well, and anything that we reveal they will see too. So why would the point that Monkey was lynched and not NK'd make any difference? Take a look at his lynch:

MonkeyMan576 (4) - semioldguy, Neopi, Gorrad, StrangerCoug

We already know there was one scum on his wagon. For all we know, there could be more, and let's not forget that you convieniently weren't voting at the end of the day.

WIFOM = null tell, always. It makes sense though.

If someone claims Doctor, and the doctor doesn't die at night, the doctor would be more suspect the next day.

I hadn't thought Neopi was scum until day 2, in fact I was against lynching him initially.

How is WIFOM always a null tell? WIFOM, or any form of it, is a definite scum tell.

The funny part is that you even say this:

Scumtells are scumtells regardless of it's just what a player "does."

Looks like you need to re-read on scum tells. Finding Mafia


You didn't think Neopi was the least bit scummy? At all? Until Day 2? Really?

I really find this hard to believe, especially when you said this:

Neopi, you do realize I did not vote Gorrad for not random voting? It was because of his later (and continued) scummy behavior?

It looks like you haven't even TRIED to read any this game and just skimmed through.

Your actions so far have been incredibly scummy and if you are lynched and end up being town... actually regardless of what you end up being, you might want to try some newbie games.

And I will quote this again...

Out of the three people with a wagon on them, I feel that Starbuck is the least likely to be scum, and I'd be least happy with her being lynched.

You felt least likely that I was scum, which means that you felt in some way that Neopi was scum (especially with the quote above this one).

I will say that my suspicions on have Gorrad have dissipated (so far), but it wasn't a "sudden" occurrence as you make it out to be.

Why did they dissipate? You were going after Gorrad very hard on Day 1, what changed your mind?

I didn't want to vote for Neopi until he gave more input, I was still stuck in the mindset that his incredible newbiness (which is a valid reason btw) could be the reason for how he was playing. I didn't feel we got enough out of him before the end of the day, and wouldn't have felt comfortable hammering him. I mean he did claim a power-role... that even though didn't make SENSE, it didn't make sense he'd just make it up all on his own either. Especially with how newbish he was. I mean I had never even HEARD of watchers and trackers before I joined this game.

This bit alone proves to me that you were active lurking at the end of the day, and didn't want to hammer your scum buddy.

I think that the fact that you read me in iso without reading how things worked around me has caused you to misunderstand quite a lot of my points on things. My shitty activity is the only point of yours I agree with, and I know it's something I need to work on improving... (in all of my games really)

Here you go again assuming that I didn't go back and read where your posts came from and how things worked around it. Assuming something like this in a mafia game is not a good thing.

I definitely don't think I misunderstood as much as you say I did because I have found quite a number of scum tells and slips from you.

[Starbuck]

I'm wondering that, and I'm wondering why Brandi is so quiet.

[Starbuck]

/sigh

More waiting for active contributors...

[Starbuck]

I hope your daughter feels better. They are about to shut down the DoD school here at my base because all the kids are coming down with the flu, strep throat, etc.