Alright, irrelevant V/LA crap aside, I had been working on responding to this post in a notepad as I usually do for mafia games (I don't like making long responses in the "reply" box... it's too small and if my internet crashes that can really f'ing suck)
Starbuck wrote:Brandi has started to bother me a bit, so I decided to read her in iso....
In
Post 33, she says that she doesn't think Monkey's random vote was scummy. What bothers me here is that all she sees is the vote and not the situation surrounding it.
I didn't think it was scummy, and there wasn't much of a situation surrounding it. I could relate to Monkey with what he was saying because I don't always read everything before I make posts either. I see it as a short-sighted thing to do, but not a scummy thing.
Starbuck wrote:She also sees Gorrad's not voting as odd and is fencesitting on whether or not she thinks it's scummy. She wants him to give a reason for his non-vote.
I said it was odd as in, not normal. I'm not used to people not voting in mafia games, I'm not of the knowledge as to how it could be scummy. I actually tried looking up some info on it in the wiki and didn't find much. There's nothing wrong with asking for a reason.
Starbuck wrote:In
Post 39, she doesn't see the logic in Gorrad voting for her. She doesn't see how it's odd that she agreed with KMD and really didn't come up with her own opinion. She, then, seems to get a bit overdefensive:
Brandi wrote:KMD said it was scummy, I said it was odd. It IS Odd, because of the fact that MOST PLAYERS random vote. ODD = not normal/weird.
You quoting me there invalidates your statement, thank you. Like I said, I never agreed with KMD. If I had agreed with him, I would have said it was scummy. He asked for opinions, and I gave them.[/quote]
Starbuck wrote:She, then, asks Gorrad (again) why he didn't random vote in
Post 40, and again in
Post 43. She seems to be tunneling on it.
I dislike it when people don't respond to my questions.
Starbuck wrote:The tone of 43 bothers me:
Brandi wrote:Gorrad: People random vote because it's what you do in the Random Voting Stage. *shrugs* I wasn't telling you there was anything WRONG with your not voting. Just wanted to know why you didn't. If I can remember correctly, you did random vote in the last game I played with you.
Why?
Starbuck wrote:She thinks that Monkey and I were both equally throwing hissy fits, but provides nothing to back it up in
Post 44.
You were. You were both throwing hissy fits. Me stating that is irrelevant to the actual game play and a subjective observation. I don't need to "BACK UP" my opinion, thank you.
Starbuck wrote:In
Post 66,
Brandi wrote:About Monkey: The fact that he just "gave up" literally to say "I'm going to wait until I'm no longer under fire" feels more scummy to me than his actual argument with Starbuck.
Also, Crazy's first point against Monkey makes no sense whatsoever. I can't fathom what he's trying to say with that sentence.
I'd like to hear some of Crazy's thoughts on other players.
Instead of saying that Monkey's giving up IS scummy, she skirts around it by saying that it FEELS scummy.
-This is a red herring. I was pointing out at that time, that if ANYTHING that monkey was doing was scummy, it was NOT what most people were pointing out was such. It's like this:
Person A: "This dinner is delicious, the potatoes are the best part!"
Person B: "This dinner isn't really delicious, but if anything is, it's not the potatoes, it's the carrots."
Starbuck wrote:
Instead of asking Crazy to elaborate on his first point, she seems to put him down here with the choice words of "can't fathom what he's trying to say".
Another irrelevant statement once again. I wasn't putting him down. I didn't understand what he was saying. Short, simple, nothing more to it.
Starbuck wrote:
In
Post 99,
She finally unvotes her RVS vote (me), but her vote of Gorrad definitely feels like OMGUS.
My vote for Gorrad had nothing to do with his initial vote on me. Otherwise I would have voted him right away.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:It's really annoying that Monkey seems to be purposely ignoring this game until the wagon on him is gone. I've never really seen this happen before, but I feel this is a very anti-town action. Even with a wagon on him he could still be here, engaging in/starting discussion and trying to catch scum. Monkey comes off as more anti-town than anything currently, but still slightly scummy.
In the above, she elaborates more about Monkey's ignoring the game. Up above she says that it FEELS scummy, but here she is saying that it's anti town, but slightly scummy. It seems like she's backtracking.
Wrong once again. But I already responded to this so I wont repeat myself.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:Gorrad is also being very non-committal in genreal. The only thing that he has done is vote me without giving any actual explanation. Odd that he passed off KMD's points as nothing, yet still voted me when I said something about the subject. I suppose he didn't want to vote the person voting for him, because he didn't want to appear to be OMGUS'ing anyone.
KMD comes off as a very aggressive player, so his reaction makes me feel like he is scared. He has also ignored my points and was selective in answering anything directed towards him. Every single post he has made thus far has been a single line long. (except for one, which was TWO lines long) His first "non-vote" was him saying that he hoped he'd stay alive longer in this game. He has come off as very hesitant. It's still early in the day, but there are multiple things going on in which he could give input on.
I don't get how Gorrad was non-committal. He voted for Brandi in his second post.
Nice misrepresentation of my words. I meant non-committal to the game in general. Note I said "the only thing he's done."
Starbuck wrote:
She then misrepresents Gorrad by saying that he voted her without any explanation.
Post 38 proves otherwise. She is definitely twisting his words. I really don't like how she just dismisses his vote on her by saying that he didn't want to appear to be OMGUSing KMD. Having played with KMD and Gorrad in the same game before, I definitely know that he's more experienced than that and probably has a better read on KMD than you do.
That's nice that you have more experience with other players than I do. I've played with Gorrad once before and I don't remember him acting remotely how he had been in the beginning of the game. Your personal reasoning does not apply to me.
Also I hardly see that as an "explanation" That is a STATEMENT, not an explanation. He never said WHY. He never gave REASONS. So no, it doesn't "prove" otherwise.
Starbuck wrote:
To me, it seems like she definitely has more of a case on KMD here than Gorrad. Like maybe she's just mentioning KMD so it doesn't come back later to bite her?
But she votes Gorrad, and I really don't see how she voted for Gorrad when she definitely has a better case on KMD.
Like I said before, I remember playing with Gorrad before and he was different, and I felt he was tunneling me.
Starbuck wrote:
In
Post 116, she goes back to tunneling on how Gorrad didn't random vote. The funny part of this whole thing was that he really didn't say anything during RVS and then he voted for Brandi for parroting off KMD. It was after this that she decided to go on the rampage about him not random voting.
More misrep once again. The post you linked to was a response to someone else. In that post, I was reiterating something that Gorrad had already previously said. That post was not even an attack against him. Once again, I never "parroted" off of KMD. I was responding to a QUESTION that KMD had made.
Starbuck wrote:
I don't really see how asking Monkey who he thinks is town in
Post 138 is pro-town.
That's nice. It's a common question I've seen in mafia games, and no one has ever mentioned it being anti-town before.
Starbuck wrote:
It is rather redundant. Scum already know who the non-scum are. How is it a pro-town question, especially when asked to a player that's recently been under a lot of fire? She then says what I just said here:
Brandi wrote:Um. Scum knows who the town is... they don't need to *guess* to hit town. And how exactly does your opinion on who is town make them "confirmed" ?
I seriously doubt any scum in ANY game would ever use other players opinions of who's townie or not to direct their kills. That is just senseless.
I don't like how she insinuates here that scum wouldn't take everything going on into account before making their kill here. It sounds like definite distancing.
Distancing from what? who? Monkey? He was town.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:Opinions and information help the TOWN.
This is not necessarily true. We could inadvertently reveal a PR like we did yesterday with Monkey. We had the info, and 4 people decided to keep their vote on Monkey.
Opinions and information DO help the town. Whether they help anyone else is irrelevant to the point I was making. It's still a fact. If we never gave opinions or had any information, the game would never go anywhere.
Note that the power role that was revealed wasn't even NK'd, he was LYNCHED.
Starbuck wrote:
You convieniently DID NOT have a vote on anyone after KMD was erased. I find it scummy that you did not place a vote.
I hadn't been really up to speed with the game at that time. I apologize for not being as active as I should have been. There's nothing I can really say to defend that.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:Gorrad wrote:So far, I don't see the case on Monkeyman as being better than my Brandi read. If what Semioldguy said is the only strikes against him, he's not worth lynching yet.
Please, for all our sakes, read the first game if you think my D1 lurking is suspect. It's generally what I do.
Scumtells are scumtells regardless of it's just what a player "does." No free passes for you.
Brandi wrote:People who play like scum on purpose and to try to say "oh it's how I play, so you can't point fingers at me!" are retarded and I have no sympathy for them~ These types of people always hurt the town.
So my guess is here that you don't even look at meta, even if that meta could be the difference between your town tell and your scum tell on someone?
No, I do not look at meta. I don't want to read a million games just to play one. I refuse to do that, ever. If I've played with another player and they seem to be acting very different, I'll take it into account. But otherwise, no.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:vote: Neopi
, I am curious as to why he is even still alive. If he's a watcher+tracker... I would think such a power-role would have been targeted by the mafia over chamber... My earlier thoughts of him were that he was more likely newbtown, but since his claim and the dawning of a new day, I get the feeling he is lying.
WIFOM! And attempt at distancing.
WIFOM = null tell, always. It makes sense though.
If someone claims Doctor, and the doctor doesn't die at night, the doctor would be more suspect the next day.
I hadn't thought Neopi was scum until day 2, in fact I was against lynching him initially.
Starbuck wrote:
Brandi wrote:I was very M.I.A. for a long while, and didn't really support any of the major wagons. I did have a vote placed before KMD was "erased" though. (Noting in case you thought I wasn't voting AT ALL yesterday)
This post says different.
No, it doesn't. Nothing I say in that post disproves anything I said in the previous one quoted. It's true that I didn't support any of the major wagons.
Starbuck wrote:
You say that you feel I'm least likely to be scum, but your post reads that you are suspicious of Neopi. So why not vote for him, or
You suddenly drop your suspicions of Gorrad. Why not put your vote back on him after KMD was erased?
About not voting for Gorrad: My suspicions can draw out to more than one person, especially on D1 when the town has no information whatsoever. I will say that my suspicions on have Gorrad have dissipated (so far), but it wasn't a "sudden" occurrence as you make it out to be.
I didn't want to vote for Neopi until he gave more input, I was still stuck in the mindset that his incredible newbiness (which is a valid reason btw) could be the reason for how he was playing. I didn't feel we got enough out of him before the end of the day, and wouldn't have felt comfortable hammering him. I mean he did claim a power-role... that even though didn't make SENSE, it didn't make sense he'd just make it up all on his own either. Especially with how newbish he was. I mean I had never even HEARD of watchers and trackers before I joined this game.
In retrospect, it would have helped the town to lynch him (because he turned up scum) but obviously I couldn't have known that.
I think that the fact that you read me in iso without reading how things worked around me has caused you to misunderstand quite a lot of my points on things. My shitty activity is the only point of yours I agree with, and I know it's something I need to work on improving... (in all of my games really)
