Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Wall-E]

Vote: Atlas

Same reason as post 6.

[Wall-E]

jerseygoomba: Why aren't you the mafia?

[Wall-E]

Atlas, you beat me to the first post. But corporate beat you there! I am voting for you for beating me to the first post.

[Wall-E]

Jordan, I'm not so sure I would even make a deal about lynch-3. It actually looks a bit more suspicious that Wall-E tried to jumpstart an Atlas bandwagon so quickly.

Why did you ignore my last question, jerseygoomba?

[Wall-E]

Jordan, I'm not so sure I would even make a deal about lynch-3. It actually looks a bit more suspicious that Wall-E tried to jumpstart an Atlas bandwagon so quickly.

Why did you ignore my last question, jerseygoomba?

I didn't ignore it Wall-E, I just thought it was rather a dumb question. Don't you think my pinstriped suit and cigar is a bit cliche to be mafia? One would think I would at least *ATTEMPT* not to stand out in rehearsal. I think you are just jealous of my superior musical talent and want me to stop making you sound bad. (Not like you need much help in that department, oh king of missed notes).

I'm makng a note here: jerseygoomba's first response to a bit of attention is OMGUS (or joke-OMGUS, which is also scummy).

jerseygoomba, what about my Atlas vote made you think it was not random?

What do you think of corporate's post 32 in which he decides to back off a bit in the face of general fast-moving-wagon criticism?

Finally, how many other scum (if any) do you think are on the Atlas wagon besides me?

[Wall-E]

Wall-E, the reason I think your Atlas vote was not random was because of the reason you gave:

Vote: Atlas

Same reason as post 6.

POST 6:

vote corporate for beating me to the first post

That would make sense if you voted for Corporate (who actually posted first), but you voted for Atlas, who didn't. Your rationale behind voting Atlas thus makes no sense. Did you misvote?

Wall-E, why does your vote make little sense?

Atlas, you beat me to the first post. But corporate beat you there! I am voting for you for beating me to the first post.

But I didn't get the first post. `-`

That's like you getting a D on a quiz, Alice gets a B, and Brenquisha gets a C. Then you slap Brenquisha for getting a higher grade than you.

Yes.

Except in this class, one of the students is a murderer, and instead of slapping them, I'm trying to get them killed.

As for corporate backing off, I would be more suspicious if we heard from the rest of the crew already, but seeing as we didn't, I'm going to take it at face value as I TOO am interested in hearing from the rest of the band.

unvote

Your last question is interesting. I'm not quite sure on that. One possibility out there could be that Atlas *IS* scum, but is taking one for the team. (Now THAT is a reach, but just posting ideas as they come to my head).[/b]

Don't you think it's MORE suspicious since we HAVEN'T heard from most of the town on this issue? Seems rather jumpy of corporate to me.

I'm most suspicious of Nekka-Lucifer than anyone else right now.

Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

Your post 24 was follow-the-wagon opportunism.

[Wall-E]

I'm a Gamma fan already.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1)corporate
corporate - (1) WhereIsTony
Gamma - (3) Nekka-Lucifer, zachattack, Gamma
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Nekka-Lucifer - (1) Wall-E
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (0)
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (1) JordanA24

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

Sarcasm?

Absolutely not.

I clearly label my sarcasm (because I can't tell when others are using it).

On the issue of Gamma's claim: We have no reason to disbelieve him, and if he makes any stupid choices we can lynch him, but for now I say GO GAMMA GO GAMMA GO GO GO GAMMA GO

Or were some of you voting him going to try to justify continuing your wagon?

Tolmides: What about my pro-Gamma attitude makes you think I'm scum?

[Wall-E]

Nekka-Lucifer's OMGUS attack is noted.

You don't like me cheering on the claimed vig? Too bad! I liked Gamma's claim, I liked everything about what he did, up to and including the reprimand.

In your post 60, Nekka, you say that you think Milk is just parroting what everyone else has already said. Can you show a quoted example of each thing Milk said followed by an example of someone else saying it previously?

[Wall-E]

Nekka-Lucifer's OMGUS attack is noted.

What OMGUS attack?

Unvote

and

Vote: Wally

I was wondering why you're on Gamma's side and not find him suspicious?

That's not a question. It's bad grammar. If you're wondering why I don't find Gamma's claim suspicious, it's because his wagon was suspicious. He acted quite appropriately, in my opinion, in the face of a wagon on him for his random vote (wtf people?). His claim is provable, and if he ever crosses my scumdar it will be a snap to get the momentum to lynch him.

I want some reasoning behind it and I feel you avoided this.

Nope. Avoided would be if I was asked a question and didn't answer. You seem eager to spread blame and suspicion. I've noticed you called four people scum since the game began. Are we to assume you're A) really good at this game or B) to be largely ignored?

[Wall-E]

Gamma's claim is provable. Why kill him?

[Wall-E]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think saying Gamma's claimed he will kill townies is a stretch. I doubt that attitude was more than I-just-claimed bravado.

Wouldn't you rather the town have two kills a day? If Gamma doesn't vig our #2 target I will personally lead the charge against him.

What say you, Gamma? Will you agree to vig the town's #2 choice for the lynch every day?

[Wall-E]

Nekka-Lucifer's OMGUS attack is noted.

You don't like me cheering on the claimed vig? Too bad! I liked Gamma's claim, I liked everything about what he did, up to and including the reprimand.

In your post 60, Nekka, you say that you think Milk is just parroting what everyone else has already said. Can you show a quoted example of each thing Milk said followed by an example of someone else saying it previously?

That isn't omgus.

How do you know that his motive for attacking me wasn't OMGUS? You seem REALLY sure of yourself. I understand if you were just pointing out that ostensibly he did provide reasons for his attacks, but I wonder if he would have attacked me AT ALL if I'd lurked instead of pointing out his bad logic? Hmm.

And of course he's not going to find exact quotes. There are points that resemble each other, but direct quotes? What are you asking here? Trying to make him look suspicious by trying to (somewhat ok?) twist his words?

Read his original post and then tell me what I'm talking about in the above quote. If you still don't get it, I'll be happy to make you look kinda dumb by explaining, but I'd been under the assumption you were paying closer attention than this.

atlas, i know our objective is to find scum, but it feels like you jump on every little thing. maybe im over reacting but it just seems like youre pickyness comes across as over compensating.

maybe im just naive and believe too many people. you could just be a overly helpful townie. but i dunno....

FoS atlas

for making me feel like he is keeping attention off of himself by putting it everywhere else.

No.

This is not good.

Corporate is testing the waters on lynches without voting, as Atlas pointed out (and got voted by corporate for it! OMGUS!).

Unvote: Vote: Corporate

I'm staying with my "he should nk himself". It leads to the least amount of wifom on D2 concerning him.

No. Gamma, do not, under ANY circumstances, vig yourself. I'd rather you vig me than yourself.

Wall-E ... had posted but hadn't added to the discussion at all

Fuck you! I get maaaaybe 2 hours of internet every other day, and so far I've dedicated nearly 50% of it to this damn thread! If you don't think I'm contributing you aren't reading my posts or have a bad definition of contribution.

Gamma's claim is provable. Why kill him?

Explain to me, how exactly is it provable without killing him?
He could be a sk, mafia or a vig. Without going too deep into hypothetical situations (with eventual doctors, RB's and un-NK-able people), how is he going to prove himself? Come on, I dare you.

He can claim his kill, then kill. It will prove he's some kind of killer. As long as he kills who

WE

say, he's

OUR

killer. Scum that obeys town is essentially town.

Look, this whole controversy over Gamma is being overblown. Believe it or not, it's a good idea to go slowly, analyze everything, and be somewhat forgiving. We want the scum to have as many opportunities each day to slip. Gamma's already "slipped," so we've established him as our backup lynch for the day, I think.

But for the reasons I've outlined MANY TIMES already, we need him alive more than dead.

[Wall-E]

watch out guys milk will give you a +1 if you say things he doesn't like

[Wall-E]

Dear Milk:

Let's talk. I know we've been distant these past few days, but I feel a budding friendship here.

Shall we?

How do you know that his motive for attacking me wasn't OMGUS?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1366683
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Omgus

Simple. I know what omgus means.

Knowing what it means doesn't mean his motive wasn't it. Trying to blind us with science? Try again.

And after I typed this and while rereading the preview, I saw your little trap; I don't know his true motive. Thanks for that. +1 for Wall-E.

You are disapproving of me because YOU said my supposition was a supposition? Congratulations, you've broken my brain.

But seriously, is it omgus when a person votes for another when the other voted for the first one one or two pages ago? And while using valid reasons? You are twisting Nekka's vote and the basis of it so much that it isn't funny anymore.

In this case, I think it was. I noticed you ignored my hypothetical while instituting several of your own. That's hypocrisy.

Do you think he would have said what he did had I never typed his name? I vote no, my gut does too, and so I dub it OMGUS. You can kick and scream all day, not changing my mind.

You seem REALLY sure of yourself. I understand if you were just pointing out that ostensibly he did provide reasons for his attacks, but I wonder if he would have attacked me AT ALL if I'd lurked instead of pointing out his bad logic? Hmm.

He voted for you because of

"What made you come to your conclusion that you like Gamma? Surely after his -3 and vig claim in the first 2 pages you wouldn't like his play and be quite suspicious. Please elaborate on your reasoning."

Where did you point out his bad logic? Why are trying to push for omgus here?

He doesn't like me because I took the opposite stance from him on Gamma's claim. Voting me without saying why what I did is scummy is scummy, because it's stupid. Stupid logic, based on feelings of OMGUS and not sound thinking. QED: OMGUS.

He can claim his kill, then kill. It will prove he's some kind of killer. As long as he kills who

WE

say, he's

OUR

killer. Scum that obeys town is essentially town.

Where's the involvement of other power roles? Doctors? Roleblockers? The possibility of the victims of the vig and the scum being the same? The scum not sending in a kill? Why is he still alive on D2? Why wasn't he roleblocked? Etc... Etc... (all hypothetical)

So to keep your poor widdle bwain from asploding we should kill him.

Uh, no.

Prove to me he's not an sk. Or a mafia. All you did prove was that he can kill during the night. I don't want scum obeying us, I want scum to die.

I've proved nothing. I'm supposing. That's how we play this game!

Let's assume he kills for us. Questions arising: Why wasn't the victim he claimed to kill, killed? He claims a doc or rb came into effect or w/e.

See how many unanswered/unanswerable questions pop up?

You're the one complicating things for no reason.

...You know what? You're right, let's kill the provable and controllable killer because there's probably a doc.

[Wall-E]

It's funny how it took the town majority this long to get to the same place I've been pointing at since page 2.

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

Gamma, if you step out of line in my esteem I will drive for your lynch SO FAST your HEAD will FALL OFF and spontaneously IGNITE.

That's all settled, I'd like to call something to the town's attention. I am voting for corporate. If you check my previous post you can see why. I'd like to hear more opinions on corporate. Vote him or tell me why I'm being dumb, please!

[Wall-E]

Uh oh, I'm clearly scum for not kneejerk lynching the claimed vig.

I'll come back when people stop repeating things I've already addressed. I see nothing new here aside from YET MORE SPECULATION ON WHO IS BUDDIES WITH WHOM WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL which is totally retarded.

[Wall-E]

Uh oh, I'm clearly scum for not kneejerk lynching the claimed vig.

I'll come back when people stop repeating things I've already addressed. I see nothing new here aside from YET MORE SPECULATION ON WHO IS BUDDIES WITH WHOM WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL which is totally retarded.

failure to address points noted.

Name one and I will fucking quote you where I already addressed it.

[Wall-E]

WhereIsTony: Why did you say the mafia have a blocker?

[Wall-E]

1) You're not scum for not kneejerk lynching the scum. You're lying, insinuating stuff that is not there and you believe a claim without any reason to believe him, while there are reasons he could not be a vig, but an sk.

2) I believe you still haven't answered;
- the question of why you directly believe gamma without any doubt.
Already answered that.
- my request of replying to the sk theory
You can't force me to join you in shitty conjecture.
- the request of how a dead townie can prove gamma is a vig
It will prove he's a killer. That's what I said.
- how on earth Gamma can prove anything without being killed in the process
He can't, except that he's a killer. And if, as Tony pointed out, the mafia "block" his night kill, we know who the scum are, so WHY KILL GAMMA?

3) "

YET MORE SPECULATION ON WHO IS BUDDIES WITH WHOM WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL

"

I've proved nothing. I'm supposing. That's how we play this game!

So, proving and providing evidence only applies to other players. Wall-E can assume all he wants.

No.

No.

What I said was DO NOT CONJECTURE ON WHO IS SCUM PARTNERS WITH WHOM BEFORE WE FIND OUR FIRST SCUM.

If you choose to do that, I will continue to tell you to shut the hell up.

Clearer?

[Wall-E]

Tony: Why do you insist the mafia have a blocker?

[Wall-E]

Sorry, ninja'd.

[Wall-E]

in most games mafia have a blocker,

Really? Hm. Can you provide some evidence? Show me three games where the mafia had a blocker.

Any three.

I will show you two for every one of yours that don't without breaking a sweat.

Again, why the assurance that the mafia have a blocker?

[Wall-E]

NEver really explained why you are such a fan. It does however make snse if you are Scum, and are hoping that when and if Gamma buys it you can go "see i told you". Only scum would be so SURE another player is town.

I've already addressed this, too.

jumps on
nekka for asking hy the allegiance. says it is "provable" puts the flawed number 2 argument in play....why flawed?

because if he is a vig (or a SK) than the mafia know his target they block him if its mafia, and don't if he's town. Effectively supplying the mafia with an extra townkill potential a night.

I don't understand this and whatever it is, it's probably stupid. Or you're a mafia blocker (or know who is).

[Wall-E]

unvote vote wall e

[b/]

i call you out and you give yourself a nice way out by saying youll come back when people stop repeating things I've already addressed. nice.

that sounds like youre opening a door for yourself to sit in the back seat and possibly lurk for a minute untill the heat comes off of you.

i dont like this.

So now you're voting me for lurking when I'm not.

Nice.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: You're voting me for your assumption that I'll now lurk. Double nice.

[Wall-E]

Milk said: - my request of replying to the sk theory

I said: You can't force me to join you in shitty conjecture.

Milk said: I didn't say join. I asked for your opinion on the case and suggestions. Surely, it can't be that hard to do?

I said: Ok: Here's my opinion: Your idea is dumb conjecture. I suggest you start scumhunting.

Milk said: Why is it wrong to assume a mafia RB? Why are you trying to push around the need for evidence. No set-up is equal to another. Trying to prove this game does not have a RoleBlocker by another game is a very empty point.

I said: We're saying the same thing. Tony's language made it clear he believes there is a blocker for NO REASON. If he'd said "Kill the vig" rather than block I wouldn't have a problem. Are you playing dumb? I'm not trying to prove there is no blocker, I'm calling Tony out as scum.

[Wall-E]

But your easy exit involves me lurking.

Which I'm not.

So... why are you voting for me?

[Wall-E]

THREAD EXPLOSION

anyone else want to stand up to my Irrefutable Logic?

[Wall-E]

I agree with your points 100%!!

I'm just wondering where blocker suddenly joined the terminology in this game.

It started with you.

Relax! I'm not going to switch my vote from corporate's scumbutt.

Understand: I've caught scum through their slips about the setup before. It's actually more common than you might think.

[Wall-E]

yeah buddy up to him corporate

[Wall-E]

But your easy exit involves me lurking.

Which I'm not.

So... why are you voting for me?

CONFIRM VOTE: CORPORATE

[Wall-E]

Ok, assuming there is an RB, leading this from the "slip up of tony" (lol), do you still stand by your plan of leading the sk/vig?

I'm reconsidering...

I would like to lynch him if we the town are not going to control his kills...

I'm going to have to think about it.

[Wall-E]

If anything I've amplified my attacks against corporate. That's the second time he's tried to call me out for something on false grounds.

The first time, he claimed I was setting myself up to lurk.

If I suspected someone of this I'd wait for them to ACTUALLY LURK first.

The second time is this whole "backed down" angle, which is utter crap.

i think the mobs trying to lynch me today so they dont have to look suspicious at night. im onto you atlas and wall e and you guys dont like it. "YOU HAVE BACKED DOWN" in my opinion alot in the past pages. or maybe you just came on strong in the first few. but now with the thread explosion i think you tow are acting shakey.

Provide us with specific information please. I'm interested in your opinion.

Me too.

[Wall-E]

atlas, i know our objective is to find scum, but it feels like you jump on every little thing. maybe im over reacting but it just seems like youre pickyness comes across as over compensating.

maybe im just naive and believe too many people. you could just be a overly helpful townie. but i dunno....

FoS atlas

for making me feel like he is keeping attention off of himself by putting it everywhere else.

after this your posting eased up.

Really? He's building a case on you (he claims) as we speak! Why are you pushing this garbage around? It makes me feel you're trying to look dumb or too scummy to be scum.

[Wall-E]

OK, my 2 cents.

Wall-E and corporate are clearly the most suspicious (aside from gamma).
I know I am repeating the general opinion of the town here but these are my views and I will explain them

You have zero case against me.

First, Wall-E's blatent refusal to listen to anyone elses ideas

Provably wrong.

and disregarding MME's serial killer theory without real reason

You have not been reading my posts. I have said exactly why, but I'll REPEAT myself now.

Setup conjecture, especially assumptions with NO precident, are a distraction the scum use to avoid lurking.

Stop giving them room to do so.

makes him scummy in my book. All of his replys are basically attacks or invalid defence. Why can't the mafia have a roleblocker? , why can't Gamma be a SK?, your posts fails to explain this and simply denounced it without any logic.

I've also addressed this, but I don't care to keep my friends awake typing an angry rejoinder, plus it's hard to fake, so if you feel I'm lying, I'll quote myself. Maybe.

its convienent that when the attention was on wall e, you guys immediatley threw it onto me.

Right. I called mad attention to myself so I could throw it all on you. Or maybe you'd like to defend against my specific attacks rather than imagining ones.

[Wall-E]

If you ever feel I'm lying, take on me, buster. I live to prove myself correct and others wrong!

On Provably Wrong: I DID change my stance on something after some well-reasoned posts about what Gamma should do (now that he's claimed), posts made by some people who are awesome.

QED: The assertion that I've been intractable is false.

I prefer infallable, anyhow.

I misremember who posted the point that made me hop that particular fence, but since people seem to be staring blankly at my posts (or simply are not reading them), I doubt they'll be much offended if I can't be bothered to look up who. After all, I HAVE been reading. (Names can get fuzzy, but I'm on corporate like crazy glue atm.)

I think it was Milk or Tony. Possibly both.

[Wall-E]

And Bud, succinctness != contentlessness. Show me your case, being sure to say what I did that's evil AND why it is evil. Until you do, you offically got squat for chips at this poker table.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E and corporate are clearly the most suspicious (aside from gamma).

First, Wall-E's blatent refusal to listen to anyone elses ideas

Ok, so that's wrong, we've established.

and disregarding MME's serial killer theory without real reason makes him scummy in my book.

I did list a reason. Twice. I'm really proud of one of the posts in which I did it. See if you can guess which one. Seriously, try to guess!

All of his replys are basically attacks or invalid defence.

Hypocrisy here!

I think what you were trying to say in post 194 was "Citation needed!"

Well, Citation needed here. What defense that I have given was invalid and why?

Why can't the mafia have a roleblocker? , why can't Gamma be a SK?, your posts fails to explain this and simply denounced it without any logic.
Fos Wall-E

I'm not going to say for a fourth time that[/i] I have listed my reasons already. Look them up yourself. I will continue to give this response. I don't feel anyone here is a child or mentally handicapped. I won't be the crutch holding up this town, nor would I allow anyone to be, for the wood might be rotten and that's a bad support plan.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP:

I'm not going to say for a fourth time that

I have listed my reasons already. Look them up yourself. I will continue to give this response. I don't feel anyone here is a child or mentally handicapped. I won't be the crutch holding up this town, nor would I allow anyone to be, for the wood might be rotten and that's a bad support plan.

That's all of your case on me, Bud, as far as I can find.

Was there more?

[Wall-E]

You picked the absolute worst example of me proving myself right on this issue. I addressed it two other times, and both times I fully explained my point of view. I'm not going to vote anyone for disagreeing (provided they tell me why), necessarily, but I do feel I'm right.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (0)
corporate - (2) Wall-E, Budja
Gamma - (1) jerseygoomba
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0) Gamma
Nekka-Lucifer - (1) zachattack
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (4) Nekka-Lucifer, My Milked Eek, corporate, WhereIsTony
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

[Wall-E]

Ok, if you want me to quote myself, I'm back at my house now. What do you want to hear/see? I will use the magic power of ISOLATION POSTS to find the answer and fully present a defense.

Meanwhile, let's kill corporate!

[Wall-E]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

Where have you said something similar to that?

Oh, right here:

1) You're not scum for not kneejerk lynching the scum. You're lying, insinuating stuff that is not there and you believe a claim without any reason to believe him, while there are reasons he could not be a vig, but an sk.

2) I believe you still haven't answered;
- the question of why you directly believe gamma without any doubt.
Already answered that.
- my request of replying to the sk theory
You can't force me to join you in shitty conjecture.
- the request of how a dead townie can prove gamma is a vig
It will prove he's a killer. That's what I said.
- how on earth Gamma can prove anything without being killed in the process
He can't, except that he's a killer. And if, as Tony pointed out, the mafia "block" his night kill, we know who the scum are, so WHY KILL GAMMA?

3) "

YET MORE SPECULATION ON WHO IS BUDDIES WITH WHOM WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL

"

I've proved nothing. I'm supposing. That's how we play this game!

So, proving and providing evidence only applies to other players. Wall-E can assume all he wants.

No.

No.

What I said was

DO NOT CONJECTURE ON WHO IS SCUM PARTNERS WITH WHOM BEFORE WE FIND OUR FIRST SCUM

If you choose to do that, I will continue to tell you to shut the hell up.

Clearer?

bolding added for emphasis

In fact, you've tried a similar sort of trick to try to prove your points:

in most games mafia have a blocker,

Really? Hm. Can you provide some evidence? Show me three games where the mafia had a blocker.

Any three.

I will show you two for every one of yours that don't without breaking a sweat.

See, you were trying to use other games to try to influence this one too.

No, I was making the point that our situation is, if anything, labored to rest within the other end of the scale from which side our point of departure on the issue existed. Translation: You guys were saying it was probable enough to warrant discussion. I was saying no. Can we agree to disagree?

Here is hoping you will continue to discuss this with me rather than rushing to vote like the desperate-to-look-scumhunty-Budja.

You never answered my question, Nekka-Lucifer: My isolation post 8 has a question that you have not addressed yet. Can you help me with that? I see you avoided answering the one in my isolation 9 as well. Thanks in advance for obliging.


Corporate is my vote for today until someone convinces me otherwise.

[Wall-E]

unvote
vote Wall-E

You didn't even try to answer my questions.

voteGammaNK corporate

woah


voteGamma and ...

NK corporate?!?!

Budja, my brudda, claim or die time!

Unvote

[Wall-E]

It is beyond dumb that you did that...

awww that's lame...

i really hope you know how lame this is!

[Wall-E]

ok thank god

i thought you had some scrap pasted into your post and had basically claimed scum on accident

well then, i agree with gamma vigging corporate 100%

and now i will find a new person to vote for

after some reading

[Wall-E]

Top two: corporate and nekka

I'm going with

Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

for being lucifer

and wow i might get my way 100% this day

no pressure right

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (0)
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (1) jerseygoomba
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0) Gamma
Nekka-Lucifer - (2) zachattack, Wall-E
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (5) Nekka-Lucifer, My Milked Eek, corporate, WhereIsTony, Budja
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

Can we not lynch Wall-E just yet? He's at L-2, we haven't really discussed who Gamma should kill tonight, I think corporate is more suspicious then Wall-E, and think if those are our top two suspects corporate should be lynched and Wall-E nightkilled. I'm not changing my vote until Nekka gets here, I really want to see him answer my question, and I suggest if everyone is so insistent on getting rid of Wall-E at least wait for Nekka to get here.

Did you see all of MY questions for Nekka? I hope he answers those as well before I am lynched.

Can we not lynch Wall-E just yet? He's at L-2, we haven't really discussed who Gamma should kill tonight, I think corporate is more suspicious then Wall-E, and think if those are our top two suspects corporate should be lynched and Wall-E nightkilled. I'm not changing my vote until Nekka gets here, I really want to see him answer my question, and I suggest if everyone is so insistent on getting rid of Wall-E at least wait for Nekka to get here.

Did you see all of MY questions for Nekka? I hope he answers those as well before I am lynched.

All your posts seems to do is occasionally state an idea, refuse to listen to any alternatives and then attack the people who point this out.

Well, it seems we're both biased against each other. I wonder what it was that I said that started this line of questioning, Brudja. Can you enlighten me?

[Wall-E]

Dear Nekka-Lucifer:

In your post 60, Nekka, you say that you think Milk is just parroting what everyone else has already said. Can you show a quoted example of each thing Milk said followed by an example of someone else saying it previously?

Nekka-Lucifer's OMGUS attack is noted.

What OMGUS attack?

Unvote

and

Vote: Wally

I was wondering why you're on Gamma's side and not find him suspicious?

That's not a question. It's bad grammar. If you're wondering why I don't find Gamma's claim suspicious, it's because his wagon was suspicious. He acted quite appropriately, in my opinion, in the face of a wagon on him for his random vote (wtf people?). His claim is provable, and if he ever crosses my scumdar it will be a snap to get the momentum to lynch him.

I want some reasoning behind it and I feel you avoided this.

Nope. Avoided would be if I was asked a question and didn't answer. You seem eager to spread blame and suspicion. I've noticed you called four people scum since the game began.

Are we to assume you're A) really good at this game or B) to be largely ignored?

Can you answer the bolded questions?

[Wall-E]

I think, in light of things that have been brought to my attention by people, Gamma should claim his kill after night is over. What say anyone?

[Wall-E]

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

[Wall-E]

Read my posts in isolation. I've already said whom.

[Wall-E]

@Wall-E. I didn't start attacking you, you were already been attacked by MME and others. Look at posts 190 for my initial suspicions and your post at 193 (and most after too) seem to follow this.

OK, my 2 cents.

Wall-E and corporate are clearly the most suspicious (aside from gamma).
I know I am repeating the general opinion of the town here but these are my views and I will explain them

First, Wall-E's blatent refusal to listen to anyone elses ideas and disregarding MME's serial killer theory without real reason makes him scummy in my book. All of his replys are basically attacks or invalid defence. Why can't the mafia have a roleblocker? , why can't Gamma be a SK?, your posts fails to explain this and simply denounced it without any logic.

Fos Wall-E

But corporate seems to be following Nekka lead with the dodgy explanations, I could forgive the early vote for Atlas, but even your attacks on Wall-E (who is scummy ) are scummy, devoid of any valid/likely explanations. You are either scum or a very paranoid townie and I doubt the latter.

vote corporate

OK, my 2 cents.

Wall-E and corporate are clearly the most suspicious (aside from gamma).
I know I am repeating the general opinion of the town here but these are my views and I will explain them

You have zero case against me.

First, Wall-E's blatent refusal to listen to anyone elses ideas

Provably wrong.

and disregarding MME's serial killer theory without real reason

You have not been reading my posts. I have said exactly why, but I'll REPEAT myself now.

Setup conjecture, especially assumptions with NO precident, are a distraction the scum use to avoid lurking.

Stop giving them room to do so.

makes him scummy in my book. All of his replys are basically attacks or invalid defence. Why can't the mafia have a roleblocker? , why can't Gamma be a SK?, your posts fails to explain this and simply denounced it without any logic.

I've also addressed this, but I don't care to keep my friends awake typing an angry rejoinder, plus it's hard to fake, so if you feel I'm lying, I'll quote myself. Maybe.

its convienent that when the attention was on wall e, you guys immediatley threw it onto me.

Right. I called mad attention to myself so I could throw it all on you. Or maybe you'd like to defend against my specific attacks rather than imagining ones.

I don't understand. What about these two posts? Quote this post and edit it to illustrate, please.

This attack on Nekka seems like a distraction but I am still interested in Nekka's response as he did seem scummy.

It's either a tell or it's not.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

Because one tiny part of my case is supposition I'm scum?

Do you know what WIFOM means?

Everything we do in mafia is subject to WIFOM. I choose to believe the more obvious of two minor aspects of my positions on things that are happening and I'm scum for it?

Faugh. That's garbage.

[Wall-E]

Of course Gamma's claim will have merit. If he claims a kill who's flavor was being stabbed, for example, Gamma's an SK. If he doesn't, we might get a counter-claim from the real vig (since everyone seems so sure he's lying.)

And for the last time, no, I will not help you conjecture over setup. You saying my counter-point is conjecture is 100% accurate! I was giving an example of why setup conjecture is STUPID!

I'm done talking to a moron now. Good luck trying to get me to discuss your scummy garbage.

[Wall-E]

Oh, is that how we play this game?

[Wall-E]

Wall-E, your behaviour is ridiculous... calm down, stop being sarcy, stop insulting every other player and PLAY THE DAMN GAME! It would help your case a lot.

Should we choose to lynch Wall-E today, who does everyone think we should get Gamma to NK tonight? Personally I'm torn between corporate and jerseygoomba, I suspect jersey for mindlessly putting Wall-E at -1 at the top of this page, following Budja in voting for Gamma for exactly the same reasoning (so bandwagoning on an easy target who can be of a lot of use to the town) and generally not bringing anything new to the thread. He's attempting to stay under the radar by the looks of it, which looks pretty scummy.

Why, in the first part of this post, do you ask "Should we lynch Wall-E today?"

Did you know the votecount at the time?

[Wall-E]

I also notice you posted your top two. Why is the possibility of my lynch just as weighty in your mind as TWO other people you suspect are scum more than me, to the extent that the opinion of the general town consensus will convince you to forget BOTH of them and instead vote for me, a third choice?

[Wall-E]

Nekka
Jersey
corp
Jordan

STOP BEING SCUMMY

[Wall-E]

Guys, do you SERIOUSLY think you have any "control" over Gamma? Especially when there is no concrete ways of validating who killed who? We don't even know if Gamma's claim is true. I think we are deluding ourselves if we think we can point Gamma like a gun and "shoot" people. That being said, I'm not convinced Gamma is scum, which is why I unvoted him.

As for my vote on Wall-E, I have thought he was scum for awhile, and he put out the challenge in post 130. I wanted to see if he would actually claim like he said in his post and I found it interesting that he didn't. (Not suspicious, just interesting).

This post redeems you in my eyes quite a bit, but where did I say I would claim?

Further clarification is desired. Thanks.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E. I did vote for him .

I am only voting for Nekka to encourage him posting. I did not expect him to be pushed to L-2. I would like to target two of Nekka, corporate and Wall-E for the NK and lynch. The top target should be lynched as Gamma's kill is unreliable and could be blocked. My top target is Wall-E to I should probably should change back but I really want to see Nekka post so I will keep up the pressure.

Also I don't like WhereIsTony's change to Nekka. It looks like you are attempting to follow the bandwagon.

I don't understand why you would not vote your biggest suspect. Can you explain?

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Budja

Voting one person while claiming another is scummier.

Fuck my grandmother, there are way too many scummy townies in this game.

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Budja

Voting one person while claiming another is scummier.

Fuck my grandmother, there are way too many scummy townies in this game.

Why did you say you were going to give Budja a chance to explain, and then change your vote to him a mere 12 minutes later?

He did something worse by voting for one person while saying that another is "scummier."

[Wall-E]

I don't understand why you would not vote your biggest suspect. Can you explain?

Not directed at me but
Sometimes a vote can be used to pressure, and sometimes even your biggest suspect is pretty uncertain.

right now, YOU are my biggest suspect, but I really think it may be because others don't post much.

So right now I am voting for nekka because of his lurkish ways

Why are you answering other people's questions?

Hey yeah!?

[Wall-E]

tag fail x2

Fixed... I think...

[Wall-E]

Why are the people who are voting for me voting for me? Specifically jersey? I'm not going to accept your statement of "Well you said to!"

What I said was, "I am claiming a role less important than Vig. If Gamma is your first choice for lynch, I'd prefer if you lynched me instead."

So. Is Gamma your #1? If not, why are you voting for me?

[Wall-E]

I have not been dismissive. If anything, I've been incredibly patient with inane and obtuse questions about things I have already addressed. Anyone is welcome to read my posts for the answers.

[Wall-E]

Nekka couldn't be bothered to claim first. Nekka's scum screwing the town out of a scumlynch. I say string him/her up before replacement.

[Wall-E]

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

[Wall-E]

vote jerseygoomba

Shit reason is shit.

Why do you feel the need to protect Wall-E?

Why do you call voting for someone protection? That's not a protection. Protection would be if he were attacking the attacks upon me. The rest of the stuff you said is bitchy and whiny and really kinda sad.

CORPORATE!!!!!!!! NO MATTER HOW GODDAMN OBVIOUS SOMEONE MAY BE SCUM OR TOWN, YOU MUST ABSOLUTELY GIVE REASONS FOR VOTES!! ESPECIALLY WHEN THREE PLAYERS SUSPECT YOU?!!? ARE YOU LAZY OR TRYING TO AVOID ATTENTION?!

[Wall-E]

Everyone here calling me a bad player: If the only thing you all have to say is that you don't like me, I can't help you. And saying I'm bad at this game is a subjective and terminal argument, given the factors involved.

If anyone has anything at all besides my ATTITUDE or USE OF CAPSLOCK to discuss, (you know, like why they are voting for me, which I have yet to hear a good reason for), let me know!

My scum list is still nekka, corporate and jordan. All three of them (as many people have pointed out) have done scummy things.



By the way, being an asshole isn't scummy. Seriously. Look it up somewhere.

[Wall-E]

Actually, I extend the above question to everybody. I think it'd be a good idea for everyones opinions so far to be made clear for clarities sake, and so no-one can hide away from the spotlight.

My top two suspects atm are:

Wall-E: For being deliberatly unhelpful towards the town, twisting my words, a hell of a lot of hypocrisy and of course, the reasons outlined in Post 336

Budja: For the -1 vote on Wall-E, and for looking as if he's been trying to stay away from being centre stage the whole game.


Jerseygoomba comes in a close third as well.

Finally some case against me.

Alright.

First: Name the hipocrisy (or all of them). Citation or you're tunneling.

Second, name the unhelpful thing(s) I've done. Citation or you're tunneling.

Third, the items in 336:

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

Well we can still judge that replacement partly on the stuff Nekka did.

Nothing the replacement can say will affect my decision outside of claiming Cop, which Nekka would have done before leaving (I'd hope).

Just because he's a new player doesn't mean we'll give him a totally fresh start, I'm sure we all won't just forget Nekka existed.

There's a reason why lurking works, you know.

Your call for a quuicklynch on Nekka pretty much does it for you in my book. A quick call to lynch the only other person it looks likely we'd lynch today, and before we properly discuss who Gamma should kill. Imo, that swings it for me, I vote that you claim (since I cannot vote you without putting you at -1).

Oh, how easily you just decide on a lynch. You must be the greatest mafia player I've ever met, to catch someone so blantantly doing something scummy!

But!

Given that A) There is nothing the replacement can say that I will believe,

and B) THIS IS A GAME OF OPINIONS, NOT FACTS

I choose to push for Nekka's fastest possible lynch. I want Nekka lynched RIGHT NOW. I can taste Nekka's blood and I love the warm coppery flavor of it in my sharp, sharp teeth.

[Wall-E]

@Jordan, I think I did take centre stage in my argument with Wall-E a few pages back.

@Gamma, you do need reasons because your actions will effect the whole town.

@RF, look at Gamma's posting and tell me he is pro-town . Tolmides and others convinced me that Gamma could be used and so I stopped voting for him but he needs to be controlled. If Gamma is the SK, he will probably kill who we choose anyway so that proves nothing.

You are barely a stage hand in this theater.

[Wall-E]

First: Name the hipocrisy (or all of them). Citation or you're tunneling.

You

always dismiss very decent cases against you as complete cr

ap, and then wonder out loud why people never build cases against you, and repeatedly ask those who already have made cases against you to do just that. And also, when you accuse someone of being scum, it's always for poor reasons that hardly amount to a case at all

CITATION NEEDED

I am not asking for much. Simply quote me dismissing a case against me as complete crap. I will explain myself. Is this so hard to do? You make it sound like it isn't, but fail to provide examples.

eg.

My scum list is still nekka, corporate and

jordan

. All three of them (as many people have pointed out) have done scummy things.

You call me scum, and yet you have never posted a decent case against me. You've made one point against me, and the evidence you gave in that point was completely false. Also, with Nekka, earlier you voted him because of "guts". Guts is not a case.

Again, here, I have no idea to what you refer. CITATION PLEASE.

"Also, you always say other people's ideas and ponts are "inane" and "stupid", and that you're being patient to deal with them, but all you do is reply by attacking the player (and quite often not attacking the case at all, another scummy thing you've done) and using CAPS LOCK a lot.

NO, YES, AND FALSE (and SO?).

There's also this too

Second, name the unhelpful thing(s) I've done. Citation or you're tunneling.

As I've said, hardly ever responding to a post without either insulting the player who's raised a fair point, or bringing up a good case yourself. Despite all your posts, you've done very little that has actually contributed in a good way towards the game (i.e good arguments against things raised by other players), that is unhelpful to the town and just takes up post space. [/quote]

How do you know what has helped the town? What if every person I voted for or pushed for a lynch of was scum?

Third, the items in 336:

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

Well we can still judge that replacement partly on the stuff Nekka did.

Nothing the replacement can say will affect my decision outside of claiming Cop, which Nekka would have done before leaving (I'd hope).

WHAT?? So you're not even going to give the replacement a chance at all? Just because Nekka decided to leave the game, even though it's fairly likely Nekka really did leave because of personal issues (he just got back from a hiatus, he may have come back too soon to be convenient). For goodness sake are you even trying to look town?

Just because he's a new player doesn't mean we'll give him a totally fresh start, I'm sure we all won't just forget Nekka existed.

There's a reason why lurking works, you know.

Lurking is kinda scummy, therefore, we shall take that into account when judging RF.

Your call for a quuicklynch on Nekka pretty much does it for you in my book. A quick call to lynch the only other person it looks likely we'd lynch today, and before we properly discuss who Gamma should kill. Imo, that swings it for me, I vote that you claim (since I cannot vote you without putting you at -1).

Oh, how easily you just decide on a lynch. You must be the greatest mafia player I've ever met, to catch someone so blantantly doing something scummy!

But!

Given that A) There is nothing the replacement can say that I will believe,

and B) THIS IS A GAME OF OPINIONS, NOT FACTS

I choose to push for Nekka's fastest possible lynch. I want Nekka lynched RIGHT NOW. I can taste Nekka's blood and I love the warm coppery flavor of it in my sharp, sharp teeth.

Firstly, I haven't definatly decided on your lynch, when I said "That swings it", I meant that I've decided you've been scummy enough for me to want you to claim. Although, I do see why that could be misinterpreted.

I've already said why A is just plain ridiculous and, again, totally unhelpful towards the town. I don't even know why you said B...

Suit yourself. I can't defend against these vague, unfounded and uncited accusations.

[Wall-E]

EBWOP: Wall-E, if you feel I am scum, can you please post a case against me?

You first.

[Wall-E]

sks don't claim vig d1

anyone saying i'm scum should say why

it's not scummy to opt for a nekka lynch - nothing nekka's replacement can say will change my mind on nekka - sorry if you disagree

[Wall-E]

What is your thought of RF and me sharing the same instrument?

It's entirely possible you are both telling the truth. If this were a flavor CC in a themed game where there were only 1 of each character, I'd go along with lynching one/both of you, but in this case it's not a good idea, methinks.

[Wall-E]

Yeah, I don't like talking about them too much either (could lead to people being modkilled (don't want that)), but to say one more thing about this:

The mod's opening flavour doesn't mention "windwoods" at all. Or any instrument classification for that matter. Nor do our role PM's (at least a few of us).

I said that I won with the woodwinds before you said you were woodwind also.

The thing is, my dear Gamma, I indirectly said I am a windwood by claiming clarinet. No denying that. A clarinet is a windwood. However, I also said, way back, that the classification of the town (if any (other than orchestra minus the brass players)) is not shared with me. As backed up by several players. It only mentions the need to remove brass players in order to win. Nowhere does it say the need to remove the threats to the windwoods or something along that line. And it nowhere says the town is the windwood section.

I got "you win with the woodwinds". So, are you telling me that the woodwinds are possibly not town? More than one town? Or am I some kind of bastard-role mafia-aligned serial-killer?

I DON'T KNOW ARE YOU?!

[Wall-E]

corporate's made yet another in a long line of scummy posts

jester speculation wtf

also: "HOW DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL? THE SCUM GET TO VOTE TOO!"

No, you need to read his post again. You're way off in left-field with that.

[Wall-E]

I'd prefer Gamma choose his own targets over letting the scum have a say in who he kills. If he doesn't get to pick his targets, I say we kill him. Yes, I realize that's the opposite of what I originally said. I'm allowed to change my opinion.

[Wall-E]

vote Wall-E

I know this puts him at L-2

1. I never stopped suspecting him and only dropped to pressure Nek (who is no longer here)
2. He has had time to post, but no time to respond to cases against him.

What case? Quote me anything, I will quote for you my response.

[Wall-E]

WIT: What happened to voting for me? You sure changed your mind in a hurry when I pointed out corporate was twisting your post. It seemed more like corporate was trying to sit at the grownup table than necessarily get you lynched.

[Wall-E]

vote Wall-E

I know this puts him at L-2

1. I never stopped suspecting him and only dropped to pressure Nek (who is no longer here)
2. He has had time to post, but no time to respond to cases against him.

The context of this post seems to infer that you dropped voting for your #1 suspect in favor of pressuring someone you did not think was as scummy as me. Am I correct in this?

[Wall-E]

Ok. Noted. You're still scum, though

[Wall-E]

Just so we're clear; you are not currently voting for your #1 suspect. Is that correct?

[Wall-E]

RF you are not my #1 anymore. I essentially haven't picked my badger yet.

[Wall-E]

It's pathetic that nobody can come up with a reason why I'm being wagoned.

[Wall-E]

Gamma, are you a newbie?

"Jordan's last post" references STILL OTHER posts unspecifically, ergo I cannot respond fully to them. If he comes back and clearly and succinctly STATES his case (no more vague "read my posts" posts, because I have, and there's nothing there), I will promptly respond. See post 442 where I issue a very simple challenge that STILL nobody has bothered to take up.

Meanwhile, I HAVE stated cases on several people. So who is being unhelpful, Gamma?

[Wall-E]

At least zach seems to have a brain. There is hope for this town yet.

[Wall-E]

Alright! Thanks for stepping up to the plate, zach!

The first person to be suspicious of Wall-E was Nekka, Nekka asked why Wall-E liked Gamma's vig claim so much and Wall-E never explained why. What was so great about Gamma's vig claim? You've stated that you liked it, you like the idea of having a controllable and provavble killer, but why is this better than Gamma keeping quiet about who he is?

An unprovoked vig claim seems like something I might do as a vig. In fact, it's something I've done before as a vig. In fact, I've done it over half the times I've been a vig. Something about being a thread bully, using the added weight of a nightkill threat when scumhunting, it's a positive thing to add stress to the other players as a vig.

Eek voted for Wall-E, mostly because of Wall-E's dickishness and his loving the vig claim. Tony again asked why you're so supportive of the vig claim, you again dismiss it. Tony (and others) also asked how Gamma's kill is provable, you ignored this as well, instead focusing on Tony's suggestion that there may be a roleblocker.

"failure to address points noted."

Name one and I will fucking quote you where I already addressed it."

At this point you had never given a reason why Gamma's claim was a good thing, and hadn't explained how his kill is provable, so thats 2 points you hadn't addressed, you were coming across as evasive at this point.

Gamma's ability to kill is provable. He says, "I am going to kill X." That night, X dies. I don't see the problem here.

Scenario 1) He's the vig. He didn't lie. Cool.
Scenario 2) He's the SK. When it becomes obvious we have an SK on D3 or so, we lynch him. Cool.
Scenario 3) He's scum. He'll probably die soon.
Addendum scenario: There's a vig who now knows Gamma's not a vig. Gamma dies. Cool.

What I said was DO NOT CONJECTURE ON WHO IS SCUM PARTNERS WITH WHOM BEFORE WE FIND OUR FIRST SCUM.

If you choose to do that, I will continue to tell you to shut the hell up.

This came after Tony suggested that you and Gamma could be scumbuddies. Much later I suggested Budja and Jersey looked like scumbuddies. You did not tell me to shut the hell up.

Well duh. It's not scummy to defend onself. It would be scummy of me to defend Budja or Jersey (both of whom I suspect, btw) knowing nothing at all about their alignments.

Post 220

Corporate is my vote for today until someone convinces me otherwise.

Post 225

Top two: corporate and nekka

I'm going with

Vote: Nekka-Lucifer

for being lucifer

What in between those two posts convinced you otherwise? I asked why Nekka over Corporate, your response was "Guts"

It was guts. If you really want me to, I will scan Nekka's posts again and find the post(s?) that got my bile up.

More from page 10

Wall-E: I think, in light of things that have been brought to my attention by people, Gamma should claim his kill after night is over. What say anyone?

Zach: Brought to your attention by who?

Wall-E: Read my posts in isolation. I've already said whom.

No, you didn't, I've read every one of your posts in isolation.

Oh, I misread what Zach meant. This was a clerical error on my part. Sorry.

I'm taking a break. I'm on page 10. Questions for Wall-E to answer, or 'fucking quote where he already addressed it'

Why was Gamma's claim a good thing?
How is Gamma's kill provable?
Why is it ok for me to suggest Jersey and Budja are scumbuddies, but not ok for Tony to suggest Gamma and Wall-E are?

Why did you do a complete 180 from corporate to Nekka?

It's not a 180 to go from one's #2 suspect to one's #1 suspect, or vice versa. Don't be a tool.

Who brought to your attention that Gamma should claim his kill after night is over?

Anyone want to jump in with anything I missed, or continue where I left off, feel free.

@ Gamma
If someone were to hammer Wall-E, who would you night kill?

no hurry.

you just dont seem confident.

The uninformed majority can never be truly confident.

[Wall-E]

fair enough.

i suppose i cant say im 100% certain he is scum, but im 100% certain he is not helping himself otherwise.

if walle does happen to flip scum it wont be anyones fault but his own.

Was this slip significant?

[Wall-E]

Still convinced corporate and Nekka are scum, here.

[Wall-E]

OH FRACKING REALLY NOW
WELL WELL WELL

[Wall-E]

I'm also, actually, in the midst of finals week, but I'm available to CYBER omg pm me we'll do it digital unf unf windex

[Wall-E]

You're oldscum.

[Wall-E]

Seven days. Let's see some input.

[Wall-E]

Let me get this straight: I'm not scum, but I'm not correct in any of my suspects?

[Wall-E]

Perhaps we should have Gamma shoot some inactives.

Note to Wall-E:
This was somewhat a joke suggestion and does not mean I believe Gamma is a vig, however, as said before, I do not doubt he can nightkill.

While I appreciate you playing to my posts (it shows you're paying attention), my 'inability to detect subtlety' is a ruse to make sure people clearly communicate themselves for the whole classroom.

It should go without saying that I don't mind being demonized if it benefits the town.

I'm not strictly against lynching me to energize the game, but to be fair, I am not the problem, and lynching me isn't going to change anything.

I invite anyone to disagree here.

The problem is New Years/Christmas. Let's just wait (which is also what the mod seems to want to do).

[Wall-E]

I am strongly against lynching people for enjoying their holiday vacations, Gamma, for the record.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1) Wall-E
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (0)
jerseygoomba - (4) Atlas, Gamma, RestFermata, zachattack
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
RestFermata - (1) Tolmides
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (5) My Milked Eek, corporate, jerseygoomba, Budja, JordanA24
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

You came under suspicion very early in the game for suggesting that putting the second vote on someone in the RVS is scummier than the 3rd or 4th vote. Once Gamma claimed vig and broke the game wide open, you slipped under the radar a little bit.

This sounds like you're blaming jersey for Gamma's claim somehow. Is that right? Please clarify.

I'm thinking out loud. I wanted to see if anyone else shares my concerns or thinks I'm overreacting (again).

Not to mention

, I want to give Gamma a chance to respond before I decide to vote for him. After all, isn't more discussion better than less, especially on Day 1? I want to make sure I am making a theoretically educated vote at this point.

At this point Gamma had made several responses to peoples concerns about his vig claim. This post looked like you were trying to gauge the towns opinion on voting for him, seeing if you could hop on the bandwagon safely, or if you would look suspicious because of it. I've always felt that people that are overly cautious with their votes are scum. Unless your a potential hammer, or putting someone in position to be hammered, you have no reason not to put your vote on someone you find suspicious if you are pro-town. In post 118 you made another post saying you were suspicious of Gamma but not convinced he was scum, in 119 Budja voted for Gamma, in 120 I called you out for not voting players you're suspicious of, and in 121 you voted Gamma. It looked like an attempt to appease me, as well as keep the heat away from you.

I disagree with anyone who claims that trying to get "off the radar" or "out of the lynch" is necessarily scummy. I agree with you that jersey needed to put up or shut up on his finger-pointing, either with a vote or some strong evidence why he should not vote for his #1 suspect.

Let me point out the bolded words above: Have you ever heard someone telling a lie and they gave two or more reasons for their actions? Like if I said, "I wanted to go to the store. Also I wanted some gum." People who do that are usually either 1) unconvinced that what they did was a smart move or 2) lying about their motivation or where they went. You don't give a weak reason and then a stronger one. Hell, non-guilty people don't give the weak reason OR the strong one. They just say, "Hey, what's up?" and if asked, "Yeah, I went to the store." and if asked, "I wanted some gum."

I hope I'm being clearer than I think I am.

FOS: Jersey

Since the town seems so dead set on keeping Gamma around tonight, I will

unvote Gamma

But I still do not see how his kill can be "proven".

This seems like you thought you could get momentum on a Gamma lynch, and once it became apparent there was none you washed your hands of it. If you thought he was scum, you should have kept your vote on him regardless of what the rest of the town thinks, unless you had someone else you found more suspicious.

We had a big spurt of activity for a few days (Imagine! Activity in this game! It seems so long ago) where Wall-E went into epic douche mode.

I have another mode?

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

OK Wall-E, after rereading your posts on there own, I have decided to take you up on a challenge you posted earlier (Post 130):

So, we are not killing Gamma. Everyone get your votes onto ANYONE else. Yes, even me. Unlike Gamma I won't claim until L-1, so be fearless and attack!

I had unvoted Gamma way back there. I'm going to give you a chance to make your claim.

VOTE: WALL-E

Nekka didn't post in between those posts. Before the Guts post, the thread had been very active, and many of us were putting votes on Wall-E, and it looked like the bandwagon was about to run him over. In between, the thread slowed a little bit as we all waited with baited breath for Nekka, and a couple of people started a small bandwagon on him. It seemed like jersey thought they were so close to a lynch on Wall-E, and he didn't want the momentum to slip away, so he tried to push it over the edge.

I'm breaking up the wall of text, I'll finish soon.

This is my favorite part of this post. I really hope you aren't scum, zach, because right now I am taking away most of your scummy points and giving you town points.

I still prefer Nekka to jersey, for all the reasons I've stated, but this is an excellent case and I will not find fault with anyone joining a jersey wagon for a while.

[Wall-E]

yay still alive

[Wall-E]

oh man koc

there are no words


much love to you

[Wall-E]

Gamma, why Budja?

I don't much care for My Milked Eek.

Park vote: My Milked Eek

[Wall-E]

Gamma, why Budja?

I'm a slave to the will of the people, Wall-e.

Unvote: Vote: Gamma

I liked you better when you were a rebel.

[Wall-E]

He's playing too nicey-nice. Sucking up to the town is not how townies win this game. I was a Gamma fan when he was walking amongst us with an axe, but now he's just going wherever the crowd points and whacking who we say.

This town is dirty, so I'd rather he acted on his own instinct than listen to us.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E: DO you honestly think Gamma is scum?

Maaaaaaybe.

[Wall-E]

Because of posts 24 and 60, RestFermata is (still) #1 suspect.

[Wall-E]

In post 9, implies that he knows (on page 1!) beyond a shadow of a doubt that jersey is town.

False.

What I said was, "jerseygoomba, why aren't you the mafia?"

Meaning, tell me why you aren't the mafia.

It was partially a joke, partially an attempt to generate discussion.

[Wall-E]

The above quote was not WhereIsTony, but Trumpet of Doom. My bad.

[Wall-E]

An understandable translation.

[Wall-E]

Why are we forgetting that Nekka had claimed Clarinet Player?
Which was confirmed as townie by me yesterday.

Three players have died, all three clarinet players.

I would find it rather coincidentally that he had claimed a random windwood/woodwind to be vanilla townie and be right about it.

Of course, safe claims, but I feel that RF's play is very protown and I think that Nekka's play was just him being awkward about this game.

You're confident I'm scum based on the fact that I thought that it looked like a PM. In fact the reason I disregarded the 'woodwinds win' section was because I was deemed a Clarinet player (woodwind right?) and I didn't think of checking back on my PM to see if it said if woodwind won or not as it seemed to me at the time that it was the win condition.

Here's Nekka claiming to back up another player's claim. Why?

Here is an example situation:

Player (steve) is at L-1.
Player (steve) claims Clarinet (vanilla).
Player (bob) is a Clarinet (vanilla), and so he unvotes.
So do all the other vanillas.
The wagon dies.

Nekka's claim to back (steve) took place before most people had a chance to even read the claim. It was completely unwarranted. Something jumpy scum might do.

Gamma:
Don't nightkill this night.

Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.

[Wall-E]

Let me know when everyone else has made a decision and I'm holding you all up. At that point I'll add my vote. For now, mine stays on Gamma - though I'd prefer a RestFermata lynch.

I'm also looking askance at corporate.

[Wall-E]

I always wanted Gamma to do his own thing. My vote has been mostly a warning to him today. If he keeps following the town, in my current state-of-mind, I plan to keep voting him until a wagon takes him out of the game.

[Wall-E]

at least you've stopped calling me Nekka-Lucifer.

I never named you because my reasons for wanting your role killed were all based on Nekka's actions.

[Wall-E]

just so so long as you're aware of my opinion

unvote vote: restfermata

[Wall-E]

If nobody joins me in lynching you I might just join you in going after corporate.

[Wall-E]

Can you give us more reasons than his oft-discussed jumpy claim for making Gamma our D2 lynch? I'm not necessarily against the idea.

[Wall-E]

Scummy is things like scumtells. Anti-town is things like a vanilla townie using OMGUS.

They can be the same thing, but not always.

[Wall-E]

Gamma, can you explain your last post? I'm about as subtle as a fedora, and I think I've missed the context there. What are you trying to say?

[Wall-E]

your first post in that game was a nontribution followed by a joke made in poor taste about "let's get to mislynching"

your second post (on page six) apologizes for your mistake in your first post, then calls someone a name, then you try to hand the reigns off to someone else


dude you fueled your own lynch in this game i'm not even going to finish reading it

[Wall-E]

for the record, gamma, i don't accept self-meta under any circumstances as an excuse for scummy plays, so if that was the card you were trying to play, mission failed

[Wall-E]

Mod, I think a two-week deadline for today might be in order. The town seems to be waiting around for someone to say, "Ok, I'm the scum." Let's get a fire started under this pot.

Anyone agree?

Noted.

[Wall-E]

Wall-E's switch of vote as soon as Gamma called his actions "stupidesque" is worrying.

Hi, I'm Wall-E.

I'm going to

Vote: Wall-E

for now for jumping wagons under the tiniest pressure, and simultaneously posting in a manner that gives him excuses to jump on a Gamma-wagon, an RF-wagon, or a corporate-wagon.

I use my vote for many things other than just scumhunting. I have stated my suspicions of four players in this game: My vote on Gamma was a warning; one which I waited for him to address to be sure he got the message. Your interpretations of my actions are befuddled, but I can see how you'd reach the conclusion you have.

[Wall-E]

You're kidding, right?

He goes from about 3% scummy to about 20% scummy and now I have to vote for him?

How about you worry about your own vote, Tony.

[Wall-E]

Why are you suspicious of Netlava, Tony? Your inference is that you had EXACTLY enough time to read the thread and form an opinion but NOT QUITE enough to post full reasons why you suspect those you do, only to state said suspicions.

I'm not buying that.

Out with it.

[Wall-E]

How about you worry about your own vote, Tony.

YOU'RE kidding, right? We're not supposed to hold people responsible for their votes and the things they say? Wow. That's scummy.

Is it?

[Wall-E]

Yes. Your vote, i.e. where it is, why it's there, is one of the biggest scumtells possible. Tony is more than valid in commenting on your vote, and the fact you're trying to discourage it is scummy.
Happy with my vote.

I meant it in the sense that I think HIS vote is messed up.

Don't try to read into my posts so much, I'm about as subtle as a sombrero.

[Wall-E]

What is the case on corporate/Netlava?

[Wall-E]

Still waiting on Tony's answer.

[Wall-E]

That's kinda weak sauce for a lynch on D2, isn't it?

Vote Count:
Gamma - (1) Netlava
Knight of Cydonia - (0)
magisterrain - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Netlava - (3) RestFermata, WhereIsTony, Trumpet of Doom
RestFermata - (1) Wall-E
Trumpet of Doom - (0)
Wall-E - (1) Knight of Cydonia
WhereIsTony - (0)

With 9 alive, 5 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

I'm going to go through your case and one-line anything I can dismiss as town being silly or you stretching.

What is the case on corporate/Netlava?

Ignoring the irony of you asking...

PBPA: (numbers are to individual's posts in isolation)

corporate:

0: random vote - negligible, although in light of magisterrain's lurking, this may hint at something. I'll let you figure out what.
1: Switches random vote for a reason that he later claims is a joke, but it is not at all obvious at the time that it's just a joke.
2: Calls Nekka out on voting someone who'd done something even scummier than his own vote (put Atlas at L-3 instead of L-4).

3: Says he figured L-3 isn't dangerous; I'd argue that at this phase of the game, since L-3 is 57% of the lynch requirement, if 3 other players just decided to "randomly" vote Atlas, hey, he's been speedlynched!

4: ...hmm. Says his vote on Budja was just a joke, but also says that he pulled a random vote when he thought the game had left the random stage. On first glance, this vote would appear to be his vote on Atlas; looking in the context of the thread, I can see how he might have meant Budja. Then questions a vote with more motive than his had.

5: Attempts to defend himself by saying "we all know how flip floppy D1 votes can be." I'm sorry, I really don't like his defense. Atlas is hitting him hard, and he's having trouble coming up with reasoned defenses, is what this looks like to me.

6: Complains that Atlas is nit-picking and refuses to acknowledge that it's an invalid way of scumhunting. Again, it could be cracking under pressure.

7: Recommends we keep Gamma alive, misinterprets Wall-E's statement that he's testing the lynching waters, and dismisses Atlas's post #44 (which itself had good points for corporate being scum) as not worth paying attention to. Was he not going to defend himself? It sure seems that way.
8: Claims that he can, indeed, ignore post 44. And that Atlas "backed off" his argument with corporate. (Well, Atlas won.)

9, 10, 11: Tries to make a preemptive case on Wall-E for giving himself an excuse to lurk. I'm sorry, what?

12: Joins in RB speculation and congratulates Tony for thinking of it.
13: Suggests Atlas's confirm vote on him (for ignoring his question on where he backed down) is OMGUS.
14: The thread explosion he points out invalidates any lurking points he may have. Especially against Wall-E, who seems more active during the explosion than before it, and Atlas (through this point) has still been making multiple posts per day.
15: His "excuse to back out" defense, which he tries to use here, is looking more and more shaky each time he uses it.

16: Alleges that Atlas's posting eased up. (Over 24 hours. I rarely make more than one post per game per RL day anyway.) Atlas calls him on it in #184.

17: Suggests (again) that Atlas and Wall-E are scumbuddies conspiring to get him lynched.
18: Says he's not sure Tony is town. Except... wait a minute... let's look at post 12 again.
19: Claims he stated a case on... Wall-E, I guess, although Eek seems to think Atlas. Either way, I don't see it.

20: The entire post is as follows: "checking in thanksgiving is keeping me busy ill catch up when i can but i have a pretty full schedule this weekend." Well, the timing is somewhat appropriate, anyway.

21: Misinterprets Budja's post "I'll go with whichever wagon

on two specific people

(including corporate) town supports more" into "whichever wagon ends up lynching".

This might be your misinterpretation

22: Apology for lurking - Thanksgiving weekend. Passable.

23: Confirm votes Wall-E, but doesn't elaborate on why. ("For all the obvious reasons"? Really? Let's pretend I'm being slow. What are they?) And suggests that Gamma killing N1 is a bad idea. We now know that the kill he made didn't work out so well for us, but we weren't going to find ourselves suddenly in LyLo today, either, so I wouldn't have minded.
24: Attempts to use laziness as an excuse for not explaining his votes and insults Wall-E. Not that Wall-E hadn't been doing more than his share of insulting, mind, but two wrongs don't make a right.
25: Restates his suspicions (without reasoning, if anyone cares), wonders where Atlas is. Reasonable question; the answer appears to be that he left the site.
26: Tries to use meta as a defense.
27: Makes a halfhearted attempt to explain why he finds Atlas scummy.
28: Congratulates Gamma for complaining about MME's nitpicking; remember, corporate's 6th post complained at Atlas for doing the exact same thing. At least he's consistent.
29: Snaps at Wall-E for ignoring Jordan's case against him.
30: Suggests Atlas may need to be replaced; forgets the reasons at the beginning of the game for which he thought Atlas was scum.

31: Apology for missing the weekend.

32: "Nope, nothing's happened that would make me change my vote."
33: Requests that people be prodded. Gets told that people are probably just waiting on Atlas's replacement.
34: Points out that yes, he did say why he'd thought Atlas was scummy.

35: Again, supports a no-kill. I think this is likely a null-tell.

36: Slams Tony (a) based on a misinterpretation and (b) for roleblocker speculation... which, wait, he supported earlier on. I could very easily believe that this is bussing, especially since they're my top two suspects.
37: Backtracks from his previous post, but leaves the part where he slams Tony's RB speculation.
38: Suggests that if Tony thinks Wall-E is scum, he should be voting to put Wall-E at L-1. FoSes Tony, but not without a bit of prompting. Make of that what you will.

39: Suggests Tony has changed his mind about who he thinks is scummiest... except he really hasn't.

40: Wonders how a suspect list (in this case, Tony's) is useful to anyone other than scum. I'd say it helps town by letting everyone know who you'd be willing to switch your vote to.

41: He then gets wrong how scum could use it to their advantage: If there's a player that everybody thinks is town, scum would likely want to kill that player. (Which then gives the doc a lead on whom to protect, which starts a logic chain that's going to give me a headache if I think about it too much.) He merely suggests that if the list's poster doesn't die, scum knows where they stand in the eyes of the dead player.

42: Says that Tony's unvoting Wall-E (who was at L-1) to wait for replacements is "wishy-washy". Really? I can understand why Tony would have been cautious and unvoted.

43: Decides Tony's not confident in his Wall-E vote/unvote.

44, 45: Declares that Wall-E's either scum or playing horribly.

I'm not going to hold anyone suspect for declaring me scummy, since I *always* am.

46: Requests a deadline, then promptly avoids posting for two-and-a-half weeks. In fairness, it was over the holidays.

47-49: Contentless, just "need to catch up" posts.

corporate requested replacement over N1; Netlava replaced in.

Netlava:

0-2: "I'm busy, I'll post eventually."

3: Claims to have read the thread, but doesn't have any points past page 6. Votes the guy who is essentially confirmed to be either vig or SK.
4: Has no idea why Gamma shouldn't be lynched... perhaps I was too subtle.
5: Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling he's looking for an excuse to vote Gamma.

Does that clear things up, Wall-E?

Thanks! Your input is very much appreciated!

[Wall-E]

because I think an important job of a replacement is to asuage doubts about who they are replacing.

It sucks but otherwise scum could jump out and rely on a replacement if things go bad.

I think it's more up to the town to use their discretion. Putting that burden on the replacer is unfair and counter-productive, imo.

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Netlava

[Wall-E]

Then let's get a hammer and end this abysmal day.

[Wall-E]

Barring him addressing that entire case, I don't see him convincing me to unvote him.

[Wall-E]

yawn

morning town

so what happened last night, gamma?

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Trumpet of Doom

I have reasons.

Let's cook this turkey.

[Wall-E]

Yes, they're made of brass but they are not a "brass instrument". They are a member of the woodwind family, which you just said. That's why I can understand it being a miller, especially if the "cop" role is flavored to something like "PM me the name of a player and I will tell you what material his/her instrument is made of". However, I'm wary of claimed millers in general, especially "implied" millers, because that seems like playing both sides. Especially since ToD is a musician, so he would know that bari sax would be a good instrument for miller.

Are you mental?

A saxophone is clearly brass.

Vote: RestFermata

[Wall-E]

I will also gladly HAMMER Trumpet of Doom, given the opportunity.

[Wall-E]

Unvote

[Wall-E]

I have reasons.

Oh really?
A = B. come on, spill your beans, or so I've heard them say on the tube.

Not telling without a good reason.

[Wall-E]

Why did you unvote, Wall-E? Can you stop being cryptic for 5 seconds?

Is a saxophone made of brass, the metal?

[Wall-E]

That didn't make sense.

Let me restate myself:

Yes, I'm being cryptic about something. No, it has nothing to do with your unvote. I unvoted you because a saxophone is not classified as a wind instrument. I retract my earlier post.

[Wall-E]

Rather, it IS classified as a woodwind, probably because of the wooden reed.

[Wall-E]

Five posts in a row zinga zinga woot woot

[Wall-E]

Gamma:

Trumpet, you were one of the people leaning against last night's vig attempt, or at least had cold feet to it.

Is that all your reasoning to suspect me over everyone else? Let's take a look at that particular section of yesterday.

Post 636: The idea of whether or not to NK last night is first brought up by MME, who is against it.
637: Wall-E advocates somewhat more recklessness. (Exact quote: "Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.")
638: RF agrees with MME that there should be no vigging N2.
643: I mention that hey, if we get scum lynched, Gamma has a bit more leeway. But having seen his skill earlier at picking scum, I suggest that it may be a good idea for him to show a bit of restraint.
647: Gamma says that no NK is "a terrible idea. Yet." He then goes on to say that he might not NK if we lynch town.
648: KoC says he thinks Gamma "should just do what he wants from now on. It's going to be too easy for the scum amongst us to steer his kills towards townies." I'd say that to some degree, this is true, but only if it's towards townies who look scummy already.
649: MME suggests that a town lynch => no NK, and that a scum lynch => NK.

And it's never spoken of again.

People who opposed the NK to some degree or another: MME, RF, ToD.
People who supported Gamma unleashed: Gamma (naturally), Wall-E, KoC.
Tony posted, but didn't offer an opinion one way or the other.

Both

of the other players to be anti-NK were players that you've suspected more than me. So if that's your only case on me, please come up with something better or move your vote to someone else. And if it's not, tell me why else you suspect me.

RF, I think KoC was referring to Gamma instead of to me.

Tony:

also are godfathers usually unkillable?

I thought godfathers simply did not turn up guilty...kind of the opposite of a miller

From the wiki - Godfather:

The Godfather heads the family, and is in charge of sending night kill choices to the Game Moderator. Also, the Godfather usually appears innocent to Cops.

In games with multiple families or other roles that can kill at night (such as the Vigilante), the Godfather may also be immune to being killed at night.

And while I'm at it, I looked up this "chainsaw defense" that you accused me of a while back... it seems to require that the cop announce his guilty

first.

So I'm not quite sure how it applies here.

You know, I was going to tear this post apart, piece by everloving peice, showing the town how you use appeal to authority, characterize Gamma as imperically worse a scumhunter than yourself to cast him and "his lot" in a stigmatized light, reference my vote and simultaneously cast doubt on it with no chance for a rebuttle from me...

Instead, I'm just going to say that I would be ECSTATIC with a Trumpet lynch today.

Trumpet is Brass or I'm not the doc.

I protected Gamma last night.

The scum tried to kill Gamma and failed (assumption 1). The fact that Gamma's kill failed also implies to me that Trumpet is not NKable (assumption 2).

Does anyone have a reason why my assumptions are wrong?

If not, and everyone has had a chance to speak on this claim, please vote for Trumpet.

That is all for now.

[Wall-E]

I smell a bus.

[Wall-E]

grumble grumble bring ketchup

[Wall-E]

Don't risk it, would be my advice.

Why not?

[Wall-E]

Nope. What do I have to do to convince you all that I'm not scum? And I'm not un-NKable, either. Although I'd rather not have to prove it in any way.

RF, you said earlier today you thought there was a mafia RB. Why would he/she/it not block Gamma? I mean, to some degree, the brass must have figured he would hit them eventually, and so his power needed to be neutralized. But they couldn't get rid of him, either. If they actually tried to NK Gamma, the only claimed town PR, they were (not to put too fine a point on it) idiots, because they should have known there was going to be a doc-protect on him. So scum wouldn't (well, shouldn't) have tried to kill Gamma. Which would lead to Wall-E's lying about having protected Gamma. Which would mean he should be lynched on LAL.

And if Wall-E's telling the truth... what kind of drugs were the scum on?

what i mean is that you could have been also not willing to go along because you may/may not have been killed

And so could they. In fact, given your past attitudes towards them, they had more reason to worry. Good God, man, give a case on me that can't be applied to other people.

You'd have been better off saying just, "I have no idea!!"

Calling me a liar in this logically fallacious segment sealed your guilt in my book.

Let's analyze:

RF, you said earlier today you thought there was a mafia RB. Why would he/she/it not block Gamma?

Can you speculate for the town who the scum DID target if they roleblocked Gamma?

I mean, to some degree, the brass must have figured he would hit them eventually, and so his power needed to be neutralized.

Thanks for opening the playbook for us all to read. Very sporting of you.

But they couldn't get rid of him, either. If they actually tried to NK Gamma, the only claimed town PR, they were (not to put too fine a point on it) idiots, because they should have known there was going to be a doc-protect on him. So scum wouldn't (well, shouldn't) have tried to kill Gamma.

I'm with you so far.

Which would lead to Wall-E's lying about having protected Gamma. Which would mean he should be lynched on LAL.

wat

If you wanted to disprove this theory you should have given an example that explained the night actions. The lack of a mafia NK OR a vig NK indicate that either a pro-town power role blocked Gamma-scum and I stupidly protected the mafia (in which case I'd feel really bad about claiming) or the more simple answer is that YOU are the scum. By the way, the only theory thus-far presented which makes any sense is the one you just quoted in your defence:

Looks like the most likely explanation is:

Gamma attempts to shoot ToD, which fails because ToD is unkillable. Mafia attempts to kill Gamma, which fails because of Wall-E's doc protection. In this case, ToD is lying about his role and is likely mafia.

Wow, that's pretty damning. But Wall-E, why did you unvote, then, if nothing about that changed?

I want to hear from ToD before the hammer, if only to see him squirm

[Wall-E]

Possibilities: 1) ToD is un-vigable scum. I protected Gamma who tried to kill ToD, therefore nobody died.

2) ToD is innocent. Gamma and I are scum. We chose not to NK to make this whole illusion seem more real, and that's why nobody died. Bear in mind this means the real vig and doc would likely wait for a wagon on either of us to toss on their votes.

3) ToD is innocent. Gamma is a liar. I'm innocent. Gamma chose not to NK to make this whole illusion seem more real, and that's why nobody died. Bear in mind this means the real vig would blah blah blah.

4) ToD is innocent. Gamma is innocent. I'm the liar. Doc counter-claim hasn't happened, therefore the real doc is waiting for a wagon on me to add his vote, blah blah blah.

Vote Count:
Gamma - (0)
Knight of Cydonia - (0)
magisterrain - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
RestFermata - (0)
Trumpet of Doom - (4) Gamma, Knight of Cydonia, WhereIsTony, RestFermata
Wall-E - (0)
WhereIsTony - (1) Trumpet of Doom

With 8 alive, 5 votes will end the day.

[Wall-E]

5) ToD is innocent. Gamma is innocent. Wall-E is innocent. One scum's an idiot, and the other's AWOL.

In this example, who did the scum target?


The rest of your post is you trying to blind me with huge amounts of irrelevant text.

[Wall-E]

RF hit the nail on the head.

unvote: vote: ToD

[Wall-E]

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH

[Wall-E]

*high fives Gamma*

You played it well, ToD. You played it well. We got lucky, really.

[Wall-E]

bah

[Wall-E]

*eats his hat*

B|






Yeeeehaww! Good game folks!

[Wall-E]

my favorite part of this game was being nkd compliments of the chef, a town victory! i got really lucky with my gambit D: !

thanks all, i really enjoyed this one

xoxo sean

[Wall-E]

Wall-E isn't acting scummy, he's acting like an asshole. You're acting scummy. I know Gamma's ability is unproven, although I think it's very likely he has it. That's why I want his kill to go to a player that I don't really think is scum, but is hurting the town with his play. I want the guaranteed kill (aka the lynch) to fall on a player who I believe to be part of the mafia. That's you or Budja.

yep, you were right!