Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Wall-E]

You picked the absolute worst example of me proving myself right on this issue. I addressed it two other times, and both times I fully explained my point of view. I'm not going to vote anyone for disagreeing (provided they tell me why), necessarily, but I do feel I'm right.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (0)
corporate - (2) Wall-E, Budja
Gamma - (1) jerseygoomba
jerseygoomba - (2) Tolmides, Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0) Gamma
Nekka-Lucifer - (1) zachattack
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (4) Nekka-Lucifer, My Milked Eek, corporate, WhereIsTony
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[JordanA24]

Wall-e has been very brash and angry in this thread, which actually makes me think he's town. Scum wouldn't be trying to bring as much attention to themselves as Wall-e is.

Or it could mean that he's scum who's annoyed at being called out.

I'd like to see Tolmides post more original content, a lot of his posts have consisted mainly of agreeing with what others have said and putting what others have basically said in his own words. Tony, same thing to you.

Tony mentioning the word block was indeed suspicious, I didn't like that, but in my opinion, Wall-e blown it out of all proportion, possibly in an attempt to take the heat off him.

corporate, what has Tony done that is so protown? He's made one questionably good point, how does that make him definatly protown? You're starting to look pretty scummy to me, a lot of your cases are reading like BS, in particular your Posts 154 (which was voting someone based on just theory and guessing what Wall-E was going to do next rather than actual fact) and Posts 174 and 186 just read like conspiracy theories against him.

Oh and Mod, I'm not voting for Wall-E, I FOSed him earlier, but voting for no-one.

Fixed.

[corporate]

im not sure he is town, my point was just that wall e was jumping on him for trying to help the town. scum dosent want to help the town. hence, my vote.

and conspiracy theories, no. just my observations.

[My Milked Eek]

This doesn't include you corporate. I expect your case on my desk before the start of my first class.

Wat are you waiting for? I already had my dinner... >=(

[WhereIsTony]

Mod: my vote for Wall-E is not shown

Fixed.

[corporate]

This doesn't include you corporate. I expect your case on my desk before the start of my first class.

Wat are you waiting for? I already had my dinner... >=(

i already stated my case

[My Milked Eek]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

[My Milked Eek]

Corp;

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1369506

Is this your case?

[Gamma]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

[WhereIsTony]

Arent set-up for the most part made up per game at the beginning.

(note this is my first non-newbie game on this forum, the other forums i have played in have always had a roleblocker and a vig, but only sometimes a sk) In newbie games the set-up is always the same four .

I thought the mini's here were made up more indidualy

[WhereIsTony]

@corporate

I would really like to see a more solid defense or failing that a more solid theory on someone else.


@ Wall-E

Perhaps a quote of one of the times you claim you explained something. you offered to quote yourself earlier please do.

@ gamma

Do you believe there is no roleblocker, or are you merely stating we can't know.

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

[Gamma]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

[jerseygoomba]

Guys,

I am still trying to parse the thread explosion over the last day and a half. Once I wade through it all, I will post my thoughts. In the meantime, please note the fact that I unvoted awhile ago. It was reflected in Wall-E's post of vote count.

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

[My Milked Eek]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

What the crap is that for a suggestion?

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

I meant the reasons of you probably being the sk. Come on. Is my language barrier that big? I thought the question was rather understandable.

[Wall-E]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

[Wall-E]

Ok, if you want me to quote myself, I'm back at my house now. What do you want to hear/see? I will use the magic power of ISOLATION POSTS to find the answer and fully present a defense.

Meanwhile, let's kill corporate!

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

Where have you said something similar to that?

In fact, you've tried a similar sort of trick to try to prove your points:

in most games mafia have a blocker,

Really? Hm. Can you provide some evidence? Show me three games where the mafia had a blocker.

Any three.

I will show you two for every one of yours that don't without breaking a sweat.

See, you were trying to use other games to try to influence this one too.

[Budja]

unvote
vote Wall-E

You didn't even try to answer my questions.

voteGammaNK corporate

[Wall-E]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

Where have you said something similar to that?

Oh, right here:

1) You're not scum for not kneejerk lynching the scum. You're lying, insinuating stuff that is not there and you believe a claim without any reason to believe him, while there are reasons he could not be a vig, but an sk.

2) I believe you still haven't answered;
- the question of why you directly believe gamma without any doubt.
Already answered that.
- my request of replying to the sk theory
You can't force me to join you in shitty conjecture.
- the request of how a dead townie can prove gamma is a vig
It will prove he's a killer. That's what I said.
- how on earth Gamma can prove anything without being killed in the process
He can't, except that he's a killer. And if, as Tony pointed out, the mafia "block" his night kill, we know who the scum are, so WHY KILL GAMMA?

3) "

YET MORE SPECULATION ON WHO IS BUDDIES WITH WHOM WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE AT ALL

"

I've proved nothing. I'm supposing. That's how we play this game!

So, proving and providing evidence only applies to other players. Wall-E can assume all he wants.

No.

No.

What I said was

DO NOT CONJECTURE ON WHO IS SCUM PARTNERS WITH WHOM BEFORE WE FIND OUR FIRST SCUM

If you choose to do that, I will continue to tell you to shut the hell up.

Clearer?

bolding added for emphasis

In fact, you've tried a similar sort of trick to try to prove your points:

in most games mafia have a blocker,

Really? Hm. Can you provide some evidence? Show me three games where the mafia had a blocker.

Any three.

I will show you two for every one of yours that don't without breaking a sweat.

See, you were trying to use other games to try to influence this one too.

No, I was making the point that our situation is, if anything, labored to rest within the other end of the scale from which side our point of departure on the issue existed. Translation: You guys were saying it was probable enough to warrant discussion. I was saying no. Can we agree to disagree?

Here is hoping you will continue to discuss this with me rather than rushing to vote like the desperate-to-look-scumhunty-Budja.

You never answered my question, Nekka-Lucifer: My isolation post 8 has a question that you have not addressed yet. Can you help me with that? I see you avoided answering the one in my isolation 9 as well. Thanks in advance for obliging.


Corporate is my vote for today until someone convinces me otherwise.

[Wall-E]

unvote
vote Wall-E

You didn't even try to answer my questions.

voteGammaNK corporate

woah


voteGamma and ...

NK corporate?!?!

Budja, my brudda, claim or die time!

Unvote

[Wall-E]

It is beyond dumb that you did that...

awww that's lame...

i really hope you know how lame this is!

[Budja]

Eh, those posts are just as bad as the one I quoted.

Also, quit trying to debase my views with lines such as "rushing to vote" and "trying-to-look-scumhunty" both of which have

no

foundation.

All your posts seems to do is occasionally state an idea, refuse to listen to any alternatives and then attack the people who point this out.

@ at the claim or die post, I thought I may as well vote for my choice for Gamma's NK as we were discussing earlier. Not exceedingly scummy and I think/hope you got that at post 222 .

[Wall-E]

ok thank god

i thought you had some scrap pasted into your post and had basically claimed scum on accident

well then, i agree with gamma vigging corporate 100%

and now i will find a new person to vote for

after some reading