Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Vote Count:
Gamma - (0)
Knight of Cydonia - (0)
magisterrain - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
RestFermata - (0)
Trumpet of Doom - (3) Gamma, Knight of Cydonia, WhereIsTony
Wall-E - (0)
WhereIsTony - (2) Rest Fermata, Trumpet of Doom

With 8 alive, 5 votes will end the day.

Look, everyone, if you think I'm scum, make a detailed post explaining what I've done that makes you think I'm scum. I can't defend against a case I haven't seen. (Gamma and Wall-E in particular, but the rest of you as well.)

Because ToD is scum

Am I really? Or are you just avoiding the question? If you have un-blockable cop powers in addition to (apparently blockable) killing powers, just say it.

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a miller, but every other game I've played here with a miller, that miller has claimed D1 to avoid problems like this.

Some time back, I felt like I had too much time on my hands and was reading through the Best Game Scummie nominations. I came across this from D2 of Mini 501.

I have also never seen a "implied miller"

See above.

I can understand it being a miller, especially if the "cop" role is flavored to something like "PM me the name of a player and I will tell you what material his/her instrument is made of".

Oh, and it just gets better from there. Even if the cop looks at what parts I play, I know I've played pep-band music (and I'd be willing to bet I've played concert pieces) where the arranger doesn't even bother to write out a bari sax part, instead just lumping it in with the trombones, or the euphoniums/baritones, or even the tubas. I find it not terribly unreasonable that I would have some low-brass parts to play.

A saxophone is clearly brass.

I'm not sure how much to count this as "you're scum trying to paint me in a negative light" and how much as "you just don't know what you're talking about." Your latest posts seem to indicate just that you did not, in fact, know what you were talking about. Either way, you just jumped a notch or two on my scumlist. Not enough to pass up Tony, though.

I have reasons.

Oh really?
A = B. come on, spill your beans, or so I've heard them say on the tube.

Not telling without a good reason.

You're not helping. But it occurs to me in trying to think of possible explanations for Wall-E's behavior that he may be trying to say he's a cop with a guilty result on me without actually saying that he's a cop with a guilty result on me. Does anyone else think this makes the slightest bit of sense, or am I just being paranoid?

Besides, Tony's comment that he doesn't see where he's changed his tune inspired me to take another look at his posts. Tony, you go from this - so confident there's a mafia RB that you don't even bother to say "if" - to this, which I'm seeing as "Oh, was I not supposed to say that?" and then to this post of "now that I can't take things back, I can at least try to pretend that I don't know there's an RB." Granted, I could be misreading any or all of these - it wouldn't be the first time this game, and it probably wouldn't be the last - but your backing off on your confidence that there was/is a mafia roleblocker is (I think) what RF is talking about.

Interestingly, your random vote was for corporatescum. Corporate's was for Atlas (who vanished, and his replacement kept up the not posting), and Atlas's was for... oh hey... you. What's that I hear about scum "random" voting their scumbuddies?

[WhereIsTony]

I was under the impression that roleblocker was common in most set-ups then i was informed it isn't this is my first non newbie game on this board.

On www.the-ush.com and www.comixtreme.com they always have a blocker.

I am always ready to learn.

[Gamma]

Trumpet, you were one of the people leaning against last night's vig attempt, or at least had cold feet to it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

However, if, as the daystart flavour implies, Gamma is also unkillable, that leads me to think Serial Killer.

Blame my foreigness, but how?

Like Wall-E, I have my reasons. Unlike Wall-E, they are good.
I suppose he could be a Godfather as well, though.

[RestFermata]

Godfathers don't usually claim miller, do they? That doesn't really make any sense to me.

[WhereIsTony]

also are godfathers usually unkillable?

I thought godfathers simply did not turn up guilty...kind of the opposite of a miller

[Trumpet of Doom]

Gamma:

Trumpet, you were one of the people leaning against last night's vig attempt, or at least had cold feet to it.

Is that all your reasoning to suspect me over everyone else? Let's take a look at that particular section of yesterday.

Post 636: The idea of whether or not to NK last night is first brought up by MME, who is against it.
637: Wall-E advocates somewhat more recklessness. (Exact quote: "Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.")
638: RF agrees with MME that there should be no vigging N2.
643: I mention that hey, if we get scum lynched, Gamma has a bit more leeway. But having seen his skill earlier at picking scum, I suggest that it may be a good idea for him to show a bit of restraint.
647: Gamma says that no NK is "a terrible idea. Yet." He then goes on to say that he might not NK if we lynch town.
648: KoC says he thinks Gamma "should just do what he wants from now on. It's going to be too easy for the scum amongst us to steer his kills towards townies." I'd say that to some degree, this is true, but only if it's towards townies who look scummy already.
649: MME suggests that a town lynch => no NK, and that a scum lynch => NK.

And it's never spoken of again.

People who opposed the NK to some degree or another: MME, RF, ToD.
People who supported Gamma unleashed: Gamma (naturally), Wall-E, KoC.
Tony posted, but didn't offer an opinion one way or the other.

Both

of the other players to be anti-NK were players that you've suspected more than me. So if that's your only case on me, please come up with something better or move your vote to someone else. And if it's not, tell me why else you suspect me.

RF, I think KoC was referring to Gamma instead of to me.

Tony:

also are godfathers usually unkillable?

I thought godfathers simply did not turn up guilty...kind of the opposite of a miller

From the wiki - Godfather:

The Godfather heads the family, and is in charge of sending night kill choices to the Game Moderator. Also, the Godfather usually appears innocent to Cops.

In games with multiple families or other roles that can kill at night (such as the Vigilante), the Godfather may also be immune to being killed at night.

And while I'm at it, I looked up this "chainsaw defense" that you accused me of a while back... it seems to require that the cop announce his guilty

first.

So I'm not quite sure how it applies here.

[RestFermata]

I guess it's pretty clear that KoC was referring to Gamma. I missed that because I can't imagine how Gamma could be a GF. The mafia (brass players) clearly were the ones who killed zachattack, while Gamma was the one who killed Budja. So I don't understand how KoC thinks Gamma could possibly be part of the mafia.

[Gamma]

Gamma:

Trumpet, you were one of the people leaning against last night's vig attempt, or at least had cold feet to it.

Is that all your reasoning to suspect me over everyone else? Let's take a look at that particular section of yesterday.

:/

[Gamma]

what i mean is that you could have been also not willing to go along because you may/may not have been killed

[Gamma]

and i'm not certain i'm unkillable, if so FUCK YEAH AWESOME. Got spring training and shit so I'll be back later today if I can still feel my arms

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, from the point of hypothesising, he could theoretically be a godfather, but I suppose the nightkill pattern makes that almost impossible without a bastard mod.
So, from where I stand, he could be a serial killer.

[Wall-E]

Gamma:

Trumpet, you were one of the people leaning against last night's vig attempt, or at least had cold feet to it.

Is that all your reasoning to suspect me over everyone else? Let's take a look at that particular section of yesterday.

Post 636: The idea of whether or not to NK last night is first brought up by MME, who is against it.
637: Wall-E advocates somewhat more recklessness. (Exact quote: "Gamma should do whatever he wants to do.")
638: RF agrees with MME that there should be no vigging N2.
643: I mention that hey, if we get scum lynched, Gamma has a bit more leeway. But having seen his skill earlier at picking scum, I suggest that it may be a good idea for him to show a bit of restraint.
647: Gamma says that no NK is "a terrible idea. Yet." He then goes on to say that he might not NK if we lynch town.
648: KoC says he thinks Gamma "should just do what he wants from now on. It's going to be too easy for the scum amongst us to steer his kills towards townies." I'd say that to some degree, this is true, but only if it's towards townies who look scummy already.
649: MME suggests that a town lynch => no NK, and that a scum lynch => NK.

And it's never spoken of again.

People who opposed the NK to some degree or another: MME, RF, ToD.
People who supported Gamma unleashed: Gamma (naturally), Wall-E, KoC.
Tony posted, but didn't offer an opinion one way or the other.

Both

of the other players to be anti-NK were players that you've suspected more than me. So if that's your only case on me, please come up with something better or move your vote to someone else. And if it's not, tell me why else you suspect me.

RF, I think KoC was referring to Gamma instead of to me.

Tony:

also are godfathers usually unkillable?

I thought godfathers simply did not turn up guilty...kind of the opposite of a miller

From the wiki - Godfather:

The Godfather heads the family, and is in charge of sending night kill choices to the Game Moderator. Also, the Godfather usually appears innocent to Cops.

In games with multiple families or other roles that can kill at night (such as the Vigilante), the Godfather may also be immune to being killed at night.

And while I'm at it, I looked up this "chainsaw defense" that you accused me of a while back... it seems to require that the cop announce his guilty

first.

So I'm not quite sure how it applies here.

You know, I was going to tear this post apart, piece by everloving peice, showing the town how you use appeal to authority, characterize Gamma as imperically worse a scumhunter than yourself to cast him and "his lot" in a stigmatized light, reference my vote and simultaneously cast doubt on it with no chance for a rebuttle from me...

Instead, I'm just going to say that I would be ECSTATIC with a Trumpet lynch today.

Trumpet is Brass or I'm not the doc.

I protected Gamma last night.

The scum tried to kill Gamma and failed (assumption 1). The fact that Gamma's kill failed also implies to me that Trumpet is not NKable (assumption 2).

Does anyone have a reason why my assumptions are wrong?

If not, and everyone has had a chance to speak on this claim, please vote for Trumpet.

That is all for now.

[Gamma]

wat

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's a doc claiming to have protected Gamma, and if Gamma's claimed shot at ToD is true, that means that for some reason, Trumpet is unkillable. So yeah, Godfather.

[RestFermata]

Looks like the most likely explanation is:

Gamma attempts to shoot ToD, which fails because ToD is unkillable. Mafia attempts to kill Gamma, which fails because of Wall-E's doc protection. In this case, ToD is lying about his role and is likely mafia.

Wow, that's pretty damning. But Wall-E, why did you unvote, then, if nothing about that changed?

I want to hear from ToD before the hammer, if only to see him squirm, but this is enough to convince me unless some other groundbreaking results come in. I had really believed ToD was town, too. Ugh, I suck at this game.

Vote: Trumpet of Doom

I still think WiT may be scum, though, despite their caustic exchange today. I saw some pretty incredible busing going on in the Family Guy large theme so it's definitely not something I'm going to discount.

[Wall-E]

I smell a bus.

[RestFermata]

I know you still think I'm scum, Wall-E. Would you like a hat to eat when you find out I'm a clarinet player?

[Wall-E]

grumble grumble bring ketchup

[Gamma]

Quite a knife party it's been today.

ToD, you have some explaining to do why I was roleblocked if you want to live.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Nope. What do I have to do to convince you all that I'm not scum? And I'm not un-NKable, either. Although I'd rather not have to prove it in any way.

Looks like the most likely explanation is:

Gamma attempts to shoot ToD, which fails because ToD is unkillable. Mafia attempts to kill Gamma, which fails because of Wall-E's doc protection. In this case, ToD is lying about his role and is likely mafia.

Wow, that's pretty damning. But Wall-E, why did you unvote, then, if nothing about that changed?

I want to hear from ToD before the hammer, if only to see him squirm

ToD, you have some explaining to do why I was roleblocked if you want to live.

Ask the guy who wouldn't know... All right, I'll take y'all up on those.

RF, you said earlier today you thought there was a mafia RB. Why would he/she/it not block Gamma? I mean, to some degree, the brass must have figured he would hit them eventually, and so his power needed to be neutralized. But they couldn't get rid of him, either. If they actually tried to NK Gamma, the only claimed town PR, they were (not to put too fine a point on it) idiots, because they should have known there was going to be a doc-protect on him. So scum wouldn't (well, shouldn't) have tried to kill Gamma. Which would lead to Wall-E's lying about having protected Gamma. Which would mean he should be lynched on LAL.

And if Wall-E's telling the truth... what kind of drugs were the scum on?

what i mean is that you could have been also not willing to go along because you may/may not have been killed

And so could they. In fact, given your past attitudes towards them, they had more reason to worry. Good God, man, give a case on me that can't be applied to other people.

...oh, right, those are the two that have claimed clarinet already. But even so, who's to say that I simply didn't trust you? [sarcasm] After all, the Budja vig went over well, didn't it? [/sarcasm]

[Gamma]

If you can do a case without being snitty, I'll get back to you. My feelings are hurt.

Anyway, if we do in fact lynch ToD tonight and he turns up scum (as he probably will), who are we going to kill tonight

[Knight of Cydonia]

Don't risk it, would be my advice.

[Wall-E]

Don't risk it, would be my advice.

Why not?

[Wall-E]

Nope. What do I have to do to convince you all that I'm not scum? And I'm not un-NKable, either. Although I'd rather not have to prove it in any way.

RF, you said earlier today you thought there was a mafia RB. Why would he/she/it not block Gamma? I mean, to some degree, the brass must have figured he would hit them eventually, and so his power needed to be neutralized. But they couldn't get rid of him, either. If they actually tried to NK Gamma, the only claimed town PR, they were (not to put too fine a point on it) idiots, because they should have known there was going to be a doc-protect on him. So scum wouldn't (well, shouldn't) have tried to kill Gamma. Which would lead to Wall-E's lying about having protected Gamma. Which would mean he should be lynched on LAL.

And if Wall-E's telling the truth... what kind of drugs were the scum on?

what i mean is that you could have been also not willing to go along because you may/may not have been killed

And so could they. In fact, given your past attitudes towards them, they had more reason to worry. Good God, man, give a case on me that can't be applied to other people.

You'd have been better off saying just, "I have no idea!!"

Calling me a liar in this logically fallacious segment sealed your guilt in my book.

Let's analyze:

RF, you said earlier today you thought there was a mafia RB. Why would he/she/it not block Gamma?

Can you speculate for the town who the scum DID target if they roleblocked Gamma?

I mean, to some degree, the brass must have figured he would hit them eventually, and so his power needed to be neutralized.

Thanks for opening the playbook for us all to read. Very sporting of you.

But they couldn't get rid of him, either. If they actually tried to NK Gamma, the only claimed town PR, they were (not to put too fine a point on it) idiots, because they should have known there was going to be a doc-protect on him. So scum wouldn't (well, shouldn't) have tried to kill Gamma.

I'm with you so far.

Which would lead to Wall-E's lying about having protected Gamma. Which would mean he should be lynched on LAL.

wat

If you wanted to disprove this theory you should have given an example that explained the night actions. The lack of a mafia NK OR a vig NK indicate that either a pro-town power role blocked Gamma-scum and I stupidly protected the mafia (in which case I'd feel really bad about claiming) or the more simple answer is that YOU are the scum. By the way, the only theory thus-far presented which makes any sense is the one you just quoted in your defence:

Looks like the most likely explanation is:

Gamma attempts to shoot ToD, which fails because ToD is unkillable. Mafia attempts to kill Gamma, which fails because of Wall-E's doc protection. In this case, ToD is lying about his role and is likely mafia.

Wow, that's pretty damning. But Wall-E, why did you unvote, then, if nothing about that changed?

I want to hear from ToD before the hammer, if only to see him squirm