he knows why
Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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That was the case in the last game, may or may not be true. modwifom.Toasty wrote:I have a hunch that the scum consist of the main space cowboy team of spike, faye, jet, and edward. Could be completely wrong but the bad guys definitely outweigh the good guys in the show.
Toasty wrote:Agreed. The whole Bounty concept should just be ignored for now because it requires mis-lynches.REQUIRES? scumslip?
and ninja'd already and answered, but yeah.
This is actually a good point. If the idea was to avoid softclaims as UK suggests, why bring up the bounty topic when no one was talking about them (potentially leading to softclaims) in the first place.Nachomamma8 wrote:
This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.Vi wrote:Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up
GreyICE, nacho sk-killed me in my last game BEFORE I EVEN GOT A CHANCE TO POST, and I'm most definitely holding a grudge!
Not mass nameclaim, only the listed bounty for the day, right?Vi wrote:For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim.
I don't care to bounty hunt right now. I'll try to lynch scum, and if I get a bounty, its a bonus. What the bounty system will do is change how wagons work. We want townies on the lynch wagon, and scum off it.Last edited by Fate on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Vi wrote:
UK gets it.UK 94 wrote:I see where Vi is getting her twitch from 51, because she actually voted someone else for the same reason.
I see Vi voted LLD for something and Antitown for something else, but neither something nor something else looks like jahudo 51.
Jahudo's iso doesn't bother me right now because its too early to be worried about IIOA. I'm not even sure if everyone's made serious posts yet. I usually look through isos later in the day/game to see if anyone is consistently providing IIOA rather than scumhunting. Right now, everyone is still working their way into the game.-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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What I'm getting at is, Vi pointed out a single particular post (jahudo 51) that made her twitch. When I asked about what about that post was the problem, I'm pointed to jahudo's entire iso and a string of "posts that are trying to look Town/friendly more than anything else." by both you and vi, which doesn't explain what about post 51 is twitch inducing.-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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clearly...Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Rhinox wrote:What I'm getting at is, Vi pointed out a single particular post (jahudo 51) that made her twitch. When I asked about what about that post was the problem, I'm pointed to jahudo's entire iso and a string of "posts that are trying to look Town/friendly more than anything else." by both you and vi, which doesn't explain what about post 51 is twitch inducing.
We're not going to just give it to you...
wait, who asked you-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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*burried under a wall of posts.....*
but I don't like the seraph wagon. LLD wagon is better. Is there some reason no one else is voting greyICE yet?
unvote: vote ICE ICE BABY
Grey just curious how you came up with that thar scumlist, particularly jahudo as town after earlier you called him a good wagon, and UT showing up as town, where as earlier he was null. For that matter, you voted me, and now I'm town. And only 1 scum and 1 scummy. You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?
god, try to submit a post and preview shows 5 NEW POSTS cmon guys...
christ can I submit a post already...-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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They both seem to be pushing bad cases and trying to make them out to be scummy when IMO they're not. But ICE seems more likely to be doing it from a scummy motivation.Seraphim wrote:Rhinox: why GreyICE over LLD? Just curious.
I could honestly fly for either one right now.
UncertainKitten wrote:@Rhinox: Why is the LLD wagon good? Did you ever explain this?technically, all I said was it was better than the seraph wagon >.>
I really didn't like her asking seraph to claim, and her claiming the exchange between seraph and grey made seraph look bad is backwards - IMO its the other way around. And then she threw out a couple wiki tell 1-line accusations - OMGUS, nice ATE - which by the way, the post she called ATE is not even close to being ATE. And then she decides to build a case after she voted and all, which came across as artificial. And I don't think I've ever seen this case yet, either.
GREYICE LOOK HERE NAO!Grey just curious how you came up with that thar scumlist, particularlyjahudo as town after earlier you called him a good wagon, and UT showing up as town, where as earlier he was null. For that matter, you voted me, and now I'm town. And only 1 scum and 1 scummy. You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?-
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Rhinox Mafia Scum
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@UK: regarding the claim request, it was precisely the routineness of it that seemed wrong. "Claim because you're at L-1 and thats what happens when you're at L-1", rather than "Claim because I and everyone else voting for you thinks your scum and want to lynch you now unless you have a good claim".
@LLD: I actually don't NEED to see a case at all. I understood the points you were making in support of voting seraph. But you make all those point and vote, and then a little later you're like, by the way I'm building a case right now. Which means 1 of 3 things in this context, IMO: 1: either you're about ready to summarize, 2: you're about to come up with some epic new points, or 3: you're trying to sound impressive but you really have no intention of doing anything at all. Unless I misunderstood what you meant when you said you were building a case, I felt it was door #3 because you said you were building a case, then never presented the case you were building, unless its supposed to be the post where you quoted 1 of seraphs posts and pointed out what was wrong with it.
I don't see the same things regarding seraph that you and greyICE are going on about. But I just think you are delusional, and ICE is scum.-
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@UK: yeah I think LLD made that more clear in the posts following the claim request, but I didn't really see it that way at first, thus my initial reaction. I just didn't get the impression that everyone on the seraph wagon was ready to lynch him, and that made it feel like it was too early to ask for a claim.-
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Well, first ICE voted me for a stupid reason, and then next I hear anything from him I'm on his town list.jahudo wrote:Rhinox – Takes stances on the big discussions which is good, but he doesn’t say why he finds Grey worse than Sera. Most of his explanation part is about Lady, even though his attention is more on Grey right now. So I’m wondering why he finds Lady delusional and Grey scummy? Lean town.
ICE's definition of waffling seems off - adding qualifiers is not waffling. IMO, he's turning a semantics argument into a REALLY BIG DEAL. And then when he actually gets into a conversation with seraph about it, he throws out the overdefensive wikitell because it was just an offhand comment.
One of these statements does not belong:
1: "Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
2: "I operate on gut reads and change my mind a lot? News to me."
3: "Logic has no place in a game of Mafia my ASS. Logic is what I like to operate on."
ICE: didn't like LLD asking seraph to claim. Seems like a lack of conviction to me. Isn't that the same thing he was accusing seraph of in WAFFLEGATE2011?
"Nacho's vote was bad. So he's probably town. Wrong. But town."
vs.
"Logic is what I like to operate on."
.......
Then the godawful scum/town list. After looking at greyICE iso, I think ICE/toasty scum is looking pretty good right now:
"Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
vs.
"Toasty - I really need to relook at some of these posts, I may be reading the situation wrong."
What changed?
And there is his posting style: answering questions with questions, asking himself rhetorical questions and then answering them, a sort of facade of having a cool arrogant swagger, and it all comes across as covering up scum insecurity, IMO. It comes across as, "I'm going to try to predict what someone is going to ask me next, ask myself, and then answer it before it gets asked." Like he's consciously thinking about things he might be accused of and nipping it in the bud before someone else brings it up. Example:
Rhinox: "You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?"
ICE: "Do I think all three scum are in that list of 6 people? Is this such a bad bet?
Am I married to the list and will never ever ever change my reads no matter what happens? No. But if my reads change from here on out there will be reasons for it."
This is more waffling than seraph ever did. I think the "Is that such a bad bet" is meant to imply that he does in fact think all the scum are in his list of 6 scum/null players. But then he throws the disclaimer on that he's not married to his list, which is the trying to predict the next accusation part I was talking about.
So yeah, this covers the why greyICE is scum part of the question jahudo. I'll cover the why LLD is moreso delusional than town in another post later on. I've been told I need to be more productive at work... >.>-
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pssst she thinks I'm seraphs scum partner and doesn't want me to know she knows...Vi wrote:Bandwagoning Lady - What's wrong with Rhinox?
GreyICE wrote:Why, because she voted for you for a bit?
Haha.
That's me laughing.
Haha.
This shit just writes itselfGreyICE wrote:The laughter sounds nervous to me.
Which half?UK wrote:I did find half of Rhinox's post to be invalid. The one on Gray, I mean.-
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Rhinox wrote:
Well, first ICE voted me for a stupid reason, and then next I hear anything from him I'm on his town list.jahudo wrote:Rhinox – Takes stances on the big discussions which is good, but he doesn’t say why he finds Grey worse than Sera. Most of his explanation part is about Lady, even though his attention is more on Grey right now. So I’m wondering why he finds Lady delusional and Grey scummy? Lean town.
ICE's definition of waffling seems off - adding qualifiers is not waffling. IMO, he's turning a semantics argument into a REALLY BIG DEAL. And then when he actually gets into a conversation with seraph about it, he throws out the overdefensive wikitell because it was just an offhand comment.
One of these statements does not belong:
1: "Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
2: "I operate on gut reads and change my mind a lot? News to me."
3: "Logic has no place in a game of Mafia my ASS. Logic is what I like to operate on."
ICE: didn't like LLD asking seraph to claim. Seems like a lack of conviction to me. Isn't that the same thing he was accusing seraph of in WAFFLEGATE2011?
"Nacho's vote was bad. So he's probably town. Wrong. But town."
vs.
"Logic is what I like to operate on."
.......
Then the godawful scum/town list. After looking at greyICE iso, I think ICE/toasty scum is looking pretty good right now:
"Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
vs.
"Toasty - I really need to relook at some of these posts, I may be reading the situation wrong."
What changed?
And there is his posting style: answering questions with questions, asking himself rhetorical questions and then answering them, a sort of facade of having a cool arrogant swagger, and it all comes across as covering up scum insecurity, IMO. It comes across as, "I'm going to try to predict what someone is going to ask me next, ask myself, and then answer it before it gets asked." Like he's consciously thinking about things he might be accused of and nipping it in the bud before someone else brings it up. Example:
Rhinox: "You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?"
ICE: "Do I think all three scum are in that list of 6 people? Is this such a bad bet?
Am I married to the list and will never ever ever change my reads no matter what happens? No. But if my reads change from here on out there will be reasons for it."
This is more waffling than seraph ever did. I think the "Is that such a bad bet" is meant to imply that he does in fact think all the scum are in his list of 6 scum/null players. But then he throws the disclaimer on that he's not married to his list, which is the trying to predict the next accusation part I was talking about.
So yeah, this covers the why greyICE is scum part of the question jahudo. I'll cover the why LLD is moreso delusional than town in another post later on. I've been told I need to be more productive at work... >.>
UK, the bolded is where I talk about the gut read vs. ICE saying he doesn't operate on gut. I see now that it may have been a sarcastic comment that I didn't catch the first time. I'll gladly strike that from my post, but... It doesn't look like half my post was dedicated to expounding on that. Maybe 10-15% of it based on the amount of text bolded vs. not bolded, and no expounding, only presenting once. Is they're a reason you're strawmanning/misrepping me like this? What do you think of the rest of the points? Sorry its a long post, but if you're going to lambast me for not reading, I'd appreciate it if you'd take 30 seconds to read my post and give a complete opinion on all the points.-
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"So we're ignoring this now?"
UK, the "this" you're referring to there has nothing to do with what type of read ICE had of toast, it had to do with the fact that early on he seemed very sure toast was scum, and then for no explained reason, he backed off on that and put toast in his null list. That flip on his position makes the whole thing look like early game distancing then backing off so as not to be forced to bus later on.
You don't have to be attacking me or accusing me of being scum to strawman me. You picked out 1 point in my argument against greyICE exaggerated it into being more significant to my overall case than it really was (calling it half the post), and then ignored the rest of the points. It is a misrep to say that point was half my post, and it is a strawman if you discount my entire post based on one of the points being weak or invalid.
(although, I think I am partly to blame for not making my points more clear. There were 9 distinct point I made, and I'll put those into a very concise list in my next post in a little bit for you.)
So yes, I am defending my case because I think it is a good one, and I'm trying to figure out if I need to communicate my points better, or if your responses are coming from a motivation of defending greyICE. Do not mistake defending my case with "being defensive". I think the summary of my points should address the rest of the comments you made. gimme a sec...-
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Here's a summary of my points for clarity. I bolded and italicized my original post to separate points.
1: first I'm scum, then I'm town for no explained reasons.Rhinox wrote:Well, first ICE voted me for a stupid reason, and then next I hear anything from him I'm on his town list.
ICE's definition of waffling seems off - adding qualifiers is not waffling. IMO, he's turning a semantics argument into a REALLY BIG DEAL. And then when he actually gets into a conversation with seraph about it, he throws out the overdefensive wikitell because it was just an offhand comment.
One of these statements does not belong:
1: "Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
2: "I operate on gut reads and change my mind a lot? News to me."
3: "Logic has no place in a game of Mafia my ASS. Logic is what I like to operate on."
ICE: didn't like LLD asking seraph to claim. Seems like a lack of conviction to me. Isn't that the same thing he was accusing seraph of in WAFFLEGATE2011?
"Nacho's vote was bad. So he's probably town. Wrong. But town."
vs.
"Logic is what I like to operate on."
.......
Then the godawful scum/town list.After looking at greyICE iso, I think ICE/toasty scum is looking pretty good right now:
"Toasty: I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo."
vs.
"Toasty - I really need to relook at some of these posts, I may be reading the situation wrong."
What changed?
And there is his posting style: answering questions with questions, asking himself rhetorical questions and then answering them, a sort of facade of having a cool arrogant swagger, and it all comes across as covering up scum insecurity, IMO. It comes across as, "I'm going to try to predict what someone is going to ask me next, ask myself, and then answer it before it gets asked." Like he's consciously thinking about things he might be accused of and nipping it in the bud before someone else brings it up. Example:
Rhinox: "You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?"
ICE: "Do I think all three scum are in that list of 6 people? Is this such a bad bet?
Am I married to the list and will never ever ever change my reads no matter what happens? No. But if my reads change from here on out there will be reasons for it."
This is more waffling than seraph ever did. I think the "Is that such a bad bet" is meant to imply that he does in fact think all the scum are in his list of 6 scum/null players. But then he throws the disclaimer on that he's not married to his list, which is the trying to predict the next accusation part I was talking about.
2: bad argument to lure seraph in, then jump to overdefensive wikitell and now everything new seraph says proves he's scum while the original argument is no longer even a consideration.
3:gut read followed by claiming to not use gut- REDACTED
4: ICE is sure seraph is scum and wants him lynched, but doesn't like seraph being asked to claim. seems to me like scum trying to grab town points because he thinks a good townie would not like to see a claim yet. If he were town who really thought seraph was scum, he wouldn't be upset about a request to claim.
5: It is not logical to call nacho town because nacho made a bad vote, yet he claims to operate on logic. That means the statement that he operates on logic seems more like trying to grab town points because he thinks a good townie should operate on logic.
6: scum/town list was bad. Gives 2 scum or leaning scum, and the rest listed as either town or null (neither scum nor town). Assuming there are more than 2 scum, this means he is actually leaving everyone in the game as a potential future target, since he will have to find a 3rd scum at least and it will have to come from his town or null list. Scum like to have lots of mislynchs available.
7: Toasty is scum and then he is null for no reason, so another example of inconsistency. Aside: Null is a good place to put a scum partner, after early game distancing. I'll look into toasty more after ICE flips town.
8: posting style - asking questions, answering questions with more questions, predicting next questions and proactively answering them. Answering questions with more questions is a form of deflecting or turning the tables. Predicting future questions is scum covering his bases.
9: waffling about his scum list. makes a sarcastic comment to me about where his scum suspects are, and then goes on to waffle about how he's not married to his list, again leaving everyone as a potential suspect.-
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yeah lol meant to say after ice flips scum. I have a bad habit of my fingers not always doing the same thing my brain is thinking while I'm typing. If anyone needs me to, I'll go dig up a recent game where I did the exact same thing.I HOPE you mean "after ICE flips scum" (Insert lol scumslip here against you :V).
I'll have to think on what you and Jahudo said and maybe rethink my position on ICE, but right now I don't see anyone that sticks out as scummier. Neither seraph or LLD doesn't seem like scum. Maybe I'll spend some time looking into toasty. Probably time to start looking into some of the others I've been ignoring up til now.-
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obviously because it was a real scumslip and I wanted to cover my assNachomamma8 wrote:
Why did you need to tag on the bolded?Rhinox wrote: have a bad habit of my fingers not always doing the same thing my brain is thinking while I'm typing.If anyone needs me to, I'll go dig up a recent game where I did the exact same thing.
umm, idk why actually.
did I just say I was going to look at toasty and others I've been ignoring up until now? I mean seriously, it was like 2 posts back.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:@Rhinox: Who else is scum? Besides GreyICE what's your next top scum read?
And no I didn't do it yet. I'll do it tomorrow.
greyICE, why so hostile all of a sudden?-
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so much this. He's flailing caught scum at this stage.Seraphim wrote:Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
A vote for GreyICE is a vote for progress!GreyICE wrote:What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town.
I read through toasty and don't see anything that makes him independently scummy. A couple associative things that make me twitch though.
LOL @ ICE now calling seraph town.-
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Knowing that I'll probably be hit with a rage nuke...
UK, in the time it took you to type out your schedule, which is completely irrelevant for us to know in the context of the game, you could have read through half a dozen greyICE posts... just sayin'...
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greyICE: earlier you said you tracked down some seraphim games and compared his play there to this game. Can you link me to the games you looked at and maybe even a couple examples of specific posts in those games that made you change your mind about seraphim?
Have you done the same sort of investigation into toasty's play? How about Vi's?-
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ICE: I guess I'm just a little confused of your methods.
You say you don't care for metagaming, but thats basically why you're clearing seraph now when before you were sure he was town - pure meta. And I'm curious as to why you don't put forth that same level of investigation into your other suspects, namely toasty and VI. You've jumped around a lot, and haven't provided good justification for your changes in reads. Seems like you're making vague reasons up when pressed, which is something scum do when they don't actually have reasons. And come again regarding Vi's scum/town list? I don't see anything wrong with it-
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UK: which part of this claim makes it so that you know ICE is town?greyICE wrote:Anyway, I'm Alisa, Jet's old Girlfriend. I'm the "one that got away."
I have a 1-shot investigate, due to contacts through the bar I own. It will find members of the red dragon clan.
I have no bounty power. Most likely because I'm not a bounty hunter. Since the Red Dragon clan are not bounty hunters either it seems highly likely that bounties grant powers to town and town alone.
greyICE: whats the deal with the red dragon clan? you mention them as if you know the scum are the red dragon clan, but I don't recall hearing that information before now. Is this a scum slip or am I completely missing something?-
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I'm calling bullshit on this one.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Nachomamma8 wrote:LLD DONT YOU SAY THAT LIKE YOU KNEW ALL ALONG.
DON'T YOU DARE.
How many pages have I been claiminga theory that required a flip?
How many?
Seraphim is the flipthat puts the nail in Vi's coffin.
Vi hangs tomorrow.
UK already linked to why:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I'm not seeing Vi and Seraphim scum.
I have my own ideas of who isscum with Seraphim.... useless until a flip occurs though.
I'll take a look Sera, but I'll point out that you did the "Why not him?" tell again.Lady Lambdadelta wrote:...scum with Seraphim...
Your theory was a seraphSCUM flipto prove who wasSCUM WITH SERAPH.
Now you're saying a seraph town flip is the flip you were referring to to prove Vi scum?
FLASHINGOBJECTION.GIF!!!
And you're also saying a seraph scum flip will not change the fact that Vi is scum. So... you want to lynch seraph first who could be town or scum, rather than Vi who is scum either way????
This needs attention and explanations.-
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I don't get it....
you've been going on and on about this theory that required a (scum) flip of seraph to show who was scum with seraph (obv, you've thought it was me, I've got that for pages, I don't get all the pretend secrecy about you not wanting to come out and say it before the flip)
but now you're claiming that this theory you've been going on about for pages is actually referring to Vi being scum if seraph is town.
And you've also managed to check all the boxes to effectively say "well if seraph is scum or town, then vi is also scum or town, or visa versa and backwards, so lynch one and then the other no matter what, but seraph first because vi is scum no matter what but a seraph flip of scum or town will prove that" (almost nearly a direct quote >.>)
???????
So no, I still don't get it, herp, derp, whatever.
unvote greyICEI guess for now. Someone explain to me exactly in words even I can understand why the above Re: LLD is not scummy?
I get the feeling there is still something key I'm missing from the last 3 or 4 pages I'm going to go keep looking for it.-
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@LLD: yes, I see that it makes sense now when I go through your iso and see the comment you made at the end of your iso 85
We're good again. You're still delusional, but we're good.
Did you explain why seraph being town makes Vi scum or did I miss that part too?-
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Jahudo, if that is your belief, what do you think about greyICE having a role that finds the RDC? If you think its all just flavor, then wouldn't it seem like greyICE is lying about his claim? If RDC is not scum and is just flavor, and RDC read the opening post to deduce (incorrectly, aparantly) that RDC = scum and formulated a fake claim around that, then... greyICE = scum, yes?Jahudo wrote:All of this flavor speculation looks misguided and terrible. Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever. Seraphim votes based on ideas about Red Dragon being mafia are a joke.
I think Vi has gotten too used to getting passes early in the game. This sub-part level of scumhunting at this stage really makes me question her alignment.
unvote;
Vote: Vi
Or do you think there is some other reason to find RDC members?-
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EBWOP:
Jahudo, if that is your belief, what do you think about greyICE having a role that finds the RDC? If you think its all just flavor, then wouldn't it seem like greyICE is lying about his claim? If RDC is not scum and is just flavor, andgreyICEread the opening post to deduce (incorrectly, aparantly) that RDC = scum and formulated a fake claim around that, then... greyICE = scum, yes?
Or do you think there is some other reason to find RDC members?-
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greyICE - if seraph were a miller, I would think that would be something that would be explicitly clear in a role PM. Being a miller without being told is something I would consider bastard modding above and beyond a theme game.
One way of figuring this out would be if there are any other RDC-town players. Anyone see any harm in a mass RDC claim at this point?-
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Did you not see my question or did you mistake me with Vi? I can't tell hereJahudo wrote:Vi, my role heavily implies Vicious is scum. But I don't trust it because it looks like flavor. I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.
@Grey: Does your power give a result of "Red Dragon" / "Not Red Dragon" or something like that?-
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No one has any thoughts on this at all?Rhinox wrote:One way of figuring this out would be if there are any other RDC-town players. Anyone see any harm in a mass RDC claim at this point?
greyICE is venturing into delusional territory now as well. Its one thing to suspect seraph to be gambitting scum, but he's not incompetant. "Misreading the role PM" is a horrible theory/reason to call someone scum.-
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Of the 4 claims, I think seraph is most likely to be scum. greyICE a close second.
Seraph has changed his story too many times to be trustworthy. Others have already laid out the case there's no reason for me to repeat everything. I was going to point out the stuff Vi just did in 834. Only thing I will add is the appeal to fear - "beware if you lynch me you'll still have to worry about the millers ". OK I'll say something else. Seraph is voting Vi and claims its not against his wincon, but says he won't venge-kill a miller (vi) because he doesn't think a miller is vicious.
vote:Seraph
greyICE is the only one to claim at L-1. I've had some concerns, but so far he's had reasonable answers. 1-shot investigate in the presence of 2 millers is ???. The fact that RDC is not the absolute confirmed scum group yet is also an open question but one that should be cleared up sooner or later.
Vi's miller claim is probably real. She planned it in her first post, and her only intent to claim was to get seraph lynched. It didn't seem like the time to just come out and claim miller as scum for no reason. Maybe one of the other wagons (toasty/greyICE?) are a scum partner, but even then putting heavy suspecion on yourself to save a scum partner? i don't think so... I actually give pro-town points for claiming miller AFTER an investigative role has claimed - saves the investigative role from saving a shot. Vi could have just sat on the miller claim, and if greyICE used the investigate on Vi, she could have pointed out the breadcrums then.
This is going to be a similar paragraph regarding jahudo. no reason to claim other than to CC Vi, and if seraph is town and jahudo is lying scum, no reason to do that at all when seraph was already likely going down. I can't explain the inconsistencies between Vi's and Jahudo's miller claims though.
I think seraph is the right lynch for today.-
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I'm literally bursting at the seams to say why but I'm going to show some restraint and allow some others to comment first.
Last chance to tell me you were gambiting, either you're lying about your role or you knew all along it was a bounty reward, and you have to tell me how I know.
If you can't do that, then you're lying scum.
In other news, toasty didn't hit the reason why.-
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ok. I mean, this is pretty much all I needed to hear. I'm failrly certain you're lying scum and UK's role information is unreliable. I'll confirm how I know in a big reveal later. Unless there is a certain assumption I've got wrong, but we can confirm that after my big reveal fairly easily.greyICE wrote:I understood the mechanic, I thought I had a power and no reward.
In the mean time, tell me a little more about this claimed hider reward - it specifically says if you hide behind scum, you die?-
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So, you're saying you could theoretically hide behind a second scum group or sk and not die anyone ever hear of a faction-specific hider before, or would that then prove the existence of only 1 scum faction? Eh, ignore this for now the stuff below is much more important because this claimed ability does not exist anyways.
Everyone do me a favor and go take a look at the PM you received from Fate on March 7th at 8:27 PM (EST). It was the message where fate announced that all role PM's were sent out and we were supposed to confirm to him via PM by giving him a piece of information. That piece of information beingRole Name and [Bounty Reward].
So I have already had greyICE confirm that he has understood the bounty mechanic all along and that he claims that until last night, he did not believe he had a bounty reward but an already active from the start ability.
The PM sent by fate says the game would not start until all players confirmed, and since the game started then it logically follows that greyICE did indeed confirm.
Therefore, there is no way that greyICE would think he did not have a bounty reward, because it would have been information he would have to confirm before the game were allowed to start.
QED?
(initially, I thought the confirmation instructions were in the separate role PM's and if greyICE was given different confirmation instructions than someone I know to be town (me), then he must be scum. Now, it changes somewhat in that since we all received the same instructions, the fact that greyICE is claiming to not know he had a bounty reward is a blatant, obvious, confirmable lie and I would think scum would be more careful than that. But then again, I seem to be the only one that remembers the confirmation instructions, so maybe not.)
Anyways, there it is. greyICE, now that we all know you're lying and why, go ahead and try to explain.-
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How did you know you were supposed to send a confirmation PM at all then?GreyICE wrote:Sorry, no catch. I PMed Fate "Confirm - one shot hider" before I even opened the other mail. That's what my role said.
I automatically PM all mods my role and confirmation pretty much exactly that way.
Except when I make up silly stuff if I'm a VT. Like "Confirm - Superman. Can Post AND vote!"
When you read the second PM with the confirmation instructions, wouldn't you have thought maybe you should resend a confirmation PM something like "oh sry I meant /confirm here's my role name and I have no bounty reward" in order to do it right?
So does your role PM say what your non-bounty reward role is then without the bounty ability?-
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