Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm.

Dammit Jahudo, you cut me ruining the effect. My Hmm is directed at GI.

Also, Jahudo, flavor is more important than it looks like.

[Fate]

"I have no doubt I'll find some new career. See you, Space Cowboy."

Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (1): Jahudo
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (0):
Jahudo (2): Nachomamma, CogitoES
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (2): ToastyToast, Seraphim
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod, GreyICE
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (4): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten, Vi (L-3)
Nachomamma (0):

Not voting: Rhinox
Trying to go against the flow of all things:


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: Thursday March 24th

[Vi]

Vi, I'm extremely surprised that you're not commenting on some of Jahudo's recent posts, especially if you hold that belief.
One more post before glory.

Sorry. Seraphim's claim (and lack of follow-up after GreyICE started talking about Millerdom) caught my attention big-time.
In unrelated news, Seraphim ISN'T at L-1.

All of this flavor speculation looks misguided and terrible. Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever. Seraphim votes based on ideas about Red Dragon being mafia are a joke.

I'm sorry, you must not be reading the game.

GreyICE is correct. My Role PM heavily implies "Red Dragon Clan" and "Mafia" are interchangeable.

[GreyICE]

Hmm.

Dammit Jahudo, you cut me ruining the effect. My Hmm is directed at GI.

Also, Jahudo, flavor is more important than it looks like.

KITTEN


Think about it this way. You're town, you've been tunneled for, IRL days by someone you think is scum. His claim confirms him town, with a one shot investigate. How do you react?

NOT LIKE THAT

WHAT DO YOU THINK MY INVESTIGATE WILL FIND?

IT AIN'T EVEN NECESSARY. TAKE YOUR VOTE OFF SERAPHIM BEFORE TOASTY QUICKHAMMERS, AND PUT IT ON THE SCUMBAG

[UncertainKitten]

Uh...what?

OK. You have a one shot investigate. I am considering some possibilities but they don't matter yet. Seraphim has claimed RDC. You've stated you are an RDC cop.

Why would you investigate Seraphim? Am I missing something here?

[GreyICE]

NOT SERAPHIM

TOASTY

DEAR LORD UK READ THAT POST

HE'S SAYING "WELL EVEN IF I'M RDC IT DOESN'T MEAN I'M NOT TOWN."

HOLY FUCK LYNCH IT

[Rhinox]

All of this flavor speculation looks misguided and terrible. Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever. Seraphim votes based on ideas about Red Dragon being mafia are a joke.

I think Vi has gotten too used to getting passes early in the game. This sub-part level of scumhunting at this stage really makes me question her alignment.

unvote;
Vote: Vi

Jahudo, if that is your belief, what do you think about greyICE having a role that finds the RDC? If you think its all just flavor, then wouldn't it seem like greyICE is lying about his claim? If RDC is not scum and is just flavor, and RDC read the opening post to deduce (incorrectly, aparantly) that RDC = scum and formulated a fake claim around that, then... greyICE = scum, yes?

Or do you think there is some other reason to find RDC members?

[Rhinox]

EBWOP:

Jahudo, if that is your belief, what do you think about greyICE having a role that finds the RDC? If you think its all just flavor, then wouldn't it seem like greyICE is lying about his claim? If RDC is not scum and is just flavor, and

greyICE

read the opening post to deduce (incorrectly, aparantly) that RDC = scum and formulated a fake claim around that, then... greyICE = scum, yes?

Or do you think there is some other reason to find RDC members?

[GreyICE]

UK YOU'VE BEEN TUNNELED AS TOWN BY TOWN

WHEN YOU FIND OUT THEY HAVE AN INVESTIGATE ARE YOU RELIEVED OR DO YOU START FLAILING?

WHAT IS TOASTY DOING?

GODDAMN IT LYNCH IT I'VE BEEN SAYING IT FOR PAGES

[Fate]

All the Vote counts from page 20 have been edited to include GreyICE's vote onto Toasty. I apologize for the mod error -Fate

[UncertainKitten]

Now I get it.

Thing is, Seraphim lynch will ALSO lead to scum, I'm pretty sure. And if it doesn't we'll have informations to play with. I don't really see Toasty flailing so much as persisting in his uselessness.

[GreyICE]

Now I get it.

Thing is, Seraphim lynch will ALSO lead to scum, I'm pretty sure. And if it doesn't we'll have informations to play with. I don't really see Toasty flailing so much as persisting in his uselessness.

HE'S SCUM NOT "LEADING TO SCUM," THAT'S INFORMATION

[UncertainKitten]

Leading to scum meant in this case it'd be a scum lynch. I'm not as convinced on the toasty thing.

[GreyICE]

DAMMIT UK

[UncertainKitten]

Well, convince me then, GI:

A) How is Toasty flailing anymore than his relative uselessness before this?
B) What makes Toasty scummy rather than just bad?
C) What makes Toasty a better candidate than Seraphim?

Answering these questions will greatly elucidate things, and POSSIBLY compel me to listen to you.

[Jahudo]

Vi, my role heavily implies Vicious is scum. But I don't trust it because it looks like flavor. I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.

@Grey: Does your power give a result of "Red Dragon" / "Not Red Dragon" or something like that?

[GreyICE]

Vi, my role heavily implies Vicious is scum. But I don't trust it because it looks like flavor. I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.

@Grey: Does your power give a result of "Red Dragon" / "Not Red Dragon" or something like that?

It says that I will find out if they're a member of the Red Dragon clan. So I'm guessing yes.

It's possible we have non-RDC scum, though I would bet serial killer over godfather just based on the fact this town smells power-heavy (and there's only so many investigation immune roles before giving people the investigate is just bad game design). We

may

have RDC town. The 'refuge in audacity' concept is slightly ridiculous, since me and Nacho have both been strongly saying Seraphim not-scum, so claiming Vicious the villain right now would be one of the weirder scum moves I've seen.

[GreyICE]

Besides, Seraphim honestly strikes me as smart enough to understand the basic Miller principle - you lynch them the day before LyLo. Especially the way he's acted.

I'm gonna wait for Nacho, and I retract my previous claim. I'm not fucking investigating anyone who hammers. This ain't a newbie game. Anyone who hammers here is scum.

I'll investigate from a different pool. We can lynch the person who claimed scum anyway. I'm not blowing a one shot on a sacrifice vote from toasty or something.

[Rhinox]

greyICE - if seraph were a miller, I would think that would be something that would be explicitly clear in a role PM. Being a miller without being told is something I would consider bastard modding above and beyond a theme game.

One way of figuring this out would be if there are any other RDC-town players. Anyone see any harm in a mass RDC claim at this point?

[Rhinox]

Vi, my role heavily implies Vicious is scum. But I don't trust it because it looks like flavor. I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.

@Grey: Does your power give a result of "Red Dragon" / "Not Red Dragon" or something like that?

Did you not see my question or did you mistake me with Vi? I can't tell here

[Vi]

Role information could easily be full of flavor that is meant to draw the player into the show, which is not necessarily the game. That is how I interpretted my role PM and how I interpret pretty much every theme game role PM I ever get, ever.

You've never played a game where the scum have been the same as they were in the source material?
Or your role's motivation has never been to get rid of a specific group of bad people?

I can't imagine you having anything in your role pm that is so clearly not flavor and so clearly can be trusted as accurate.

Maybe you should reread the game in general? Or just stop being scum?
I have role information, if that wasn't manifestly obvious. It's kind of irritating, really.

...The Kitten made me do it.

---

GreyICE, as I said before. I highly doubt Seraphim is a Miller. If he was, he would have claimed as such. (Cut: Rhinox gets it.)

The 'refuge in audacity' concept is slightly ridiculous, since me and Nacho have both been strongly saying Seraphim not-scum, so claiming Vicious the villain right now would be one of the weirder scum moves I've seen.

Seraphim still has the largest wagon without your support.

---

A) How is Toasty flailing anymore than his relative uselessness before this?
B) What makes Toasty scummy rather than just bad?
C) What makes Toasty a better candidate than Seraphim?

Skim the game for Toastposts and look for all the times it seems like he's trying to safepost.
Now consider his "darn you're Town OR ARE YOU" response to you calling him confTown.
Now consider that Seraphim's claim is impossible.

I will not be disappointed if Toast gets lynched, but Seraphim's claim doesn't hold water.

[GreyICE]

And I want to see Nacho's case before the day ends. So hammers come from scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vi: Oh U

Anyway, my questions were for GI, NOT you.

[Kdub]

I've thought a bit more about the miller thing. GreyICE is saying he is 100% sure that RDC is scum and that he is not just reading too much into the flavor. There are three possibilities:

1. Seraphim is scum and tried to gambit by claiming his actual role, but didn't know that GreyICE had 100% confirmation about the RDC=scum thing.
2. GreyICE is lying.
3. Fate made a mistake in the role PM.

Any possibilities that I missed?

I think we can ignore #3, both because I think it's unlikely, and there would be no way to deduce this anyway except by lynching someone.

As for #1, I agree that it's a strange claim for scum to make, but after the Grey/UK/Nacho thing went down, Seraphim was the next largest wagon, and UK's vote started to shift momentum to him, so I could see him pulling an unusual gambit to try to save himself.

As for #2, I've already said why I think GreyICE is town, but that's up to people's opinions.

greyICE - if seraph were a miller, I would think that would be something that would be explicitly clear in a role PM. Being a miller without being told is something I would consider bastard modding above and beyond a theme game.

I don't think I would consider it particularly bastardly. Weren't millers who aren't told they are millers at least considered for inclusion in the normal game guidelines (I don't think it made the cut though)?

I think an interesting question to ask people aside from the RDC thing would be, "is anybody else in the game a miller (and was told specifically that they were a miller)?"

[GreyICE]

Well, convince me then, GI:

A) How is Toasty flailing anymore than his relative uselessness before this?
B) What makes Toasty scummy rather than just bad?
C) What makes Toasty a better candidate than Seraphim?

Answering these questions will greatly elucidate things, and POSSIBLY compel me to listen to you.

Well believe it or not, Vi gave good answers.

A)

The COP. You're being tunneled by a Cop. What is his response to me being called confirmed town as a cop?

1) Question why you're town and Nacho is town
2) Once that line of attack fails, dies, and drops off the planet, subtly hints they should lynch me as a scum test if I get a guilty (note: been tunneling him all day)
3) Then jumps like a dying Orca onto the insane notion that RDC is town.

How do you THINK he's gonna cop? RDC? YEEEESSSSSSSSSS

B)

What makes him bad, instead of just scummy? Here's my reaction, as town, to learning my #1 suspect and the guy who is tunneling me like all hell is a confirmed-ish town claimed cop

1) Aww darn. I liked that one (close enough)
2) Well at least I don't have to put up with that tunnel all game.
3) Someone think about doctoring him tonight

To be clear, I don't want a doctor. I think there's better shots than me, and I smell a serial killer. I really, really do. Too much 'information' for it all to be flowing from scum. Protect people who might have good power roles, my power will likely confirm something we're already guessing.

Oh my god, he's been scum as shit all thread, UK

C)

Vi just put Seraphim at L-1

Kdub

-

RDC is the flavor of our scum team

. Other possibilities don't exist, given my investigate, given the flavor, given the game. However, I would accept the idea of a RDC miller, and {WARNING GAMING MOD} this is exactly the sort of thing Fate might throw in to fuck with us.

Are we asking for a Seraphim full claim, including flavor on the Red Dragon Clan entry? I am in favor.