Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[ToastyToast]

Grey, I've also claimed, if you missed it

ToastyToast
Role Name: Katerina
Bounty Power: Vote Motivator

GreyICE, can I assume you are doing this to get your hider power?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I do not agree with this massclaim of role names. >.>

[Jahudo]

Sup reck, I’ll summarize for you:

Day 1
GreyICE: I’m a 1 shot cop that finds Red Dragons as scum.
Vi: I also have role information that Red Dragons are scum [/softclaim]
Seraphim: No, I’m Red Dragon and I’m a townie.
Jahudo: You guys are reading into this too much, my role PM has flavor that might not be reliable.
Everyone: Let’s lynch Seraphim because he was already acting weird.
Vi: Oh, also I’m a miller because I used to be Red Dragon.
Jahudo: Counter-claim. I am a miller and there’s no mention of Red Dragon.
Seraphim: Ok, I am actually a third party lyncher but I am not mafia!
Jahudo: Hammers Seraphim, who flips third party lyncher.

Day 2
Everyone: Lets lynch either Vi or Jahudo obvs.
Jahudo: Hammers Vi, who flips mafia and Seraphim's lyncher target.

----
What is a motivator? I looked it up in the wiki and still don't understand.

[ToastyToast]

I give someone an extra vote

[GreyICE]

Given that Spike was third party, and Jet had an ability that was kinda a downgrade on Mason (as I couldn't reverse confirm) I'm not sure that names are going to single out power roles.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh okay so Jahudo is obvtown. Good to know.
Who should I be lynching today?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh okay so Jahudo is obvtown. Good to know.
Who should I be lynching today?

How about putting some effort into the game, and figuring that out for yourself?

[Jahudo]

Vote: CES

Just look at his ISO. That should tell you plenty. (lol, ok seriously)

He's played under the radar and made little connections. He never explains his votes, which is a good strategy as scum because it would allow him to stay voting if one reason proves out to be not true. This is probably something he does often enough to become his meta though, so the more indicating part of his play is that he ignored Vi completely.

As grey suggested, voting a near confirmed scum would not make anyone look town. Its a no brainer decision for either alignment that Vi would get killed. But why would CES not acknowledge that the no brainer decision had to be made? There are far too many holes in his thought process that could have a scum motivation for him to live much longer.

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: CES

Sounds good to me. Obvtown Jahudo wants to lynch him plus I suck at reading CES anyway, so yeah.
Huzzah.

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote

On second though, I'll wait and see CES's response.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Not obvtown, but obvscum Jahudo, Reck. Scummy claim, scummy behaviour.

This is probably something he does often enough to become his meta though

This is not pro-town curiosity. It's not a lot of effort to look at another game I played and glance at my ISO.

[xRECKONERx]

So I decided to randomly iso someone, and HERPA DERPA I found someone moderately scummy.

Ladies and gentlemen… I present to you… ToastyToast.

iso 3: Displays willingness to unvote Seraphim when pressured on his vote, and explains his vote on Seraphim as just a gut read.

And now I'm too lazy to link all the posts, but I really don't like how he finds Seraphim's soft claim of having secret flavor info scummy and uses that to push a case on him. Not to mention him pushing on GreyICE, given what we know now, is retrospectively scummy.

I read the rest of the iso but I don't feel like typing up a case right now because I'm in class and can't focus enough but I think:

Vote: ToastyToast

is good enough for now until I see CES's response to Jahudo.

[GreyICE]

Hmm...

Toasty's power would be very odd on scum. If it could be given to scum, it effectively eliminates a townie. While that's not unreasonable, together with Vi, they essentially bump off two townies, letting town lose from 6:2 (lynch town, NK town, Assassin town, give Vi+1 votes, no lynch, win).

That's a hell of a lot of power in a scumteam, and while Vi nosed at the bounty issue, it wasn't hard enough given what THAT would mean for the town. And it's a weird fake claim.

So I'm going to suggest that this makes him more town.

Hmm, I'm derping on something here.

PEDIT: ITT Reck discovers the obvious

[GreyICE]

Though I admit, he started off RVS with a random meaningless vote for someone who randomly flipped scum.

Seen that one way too often for some reason...

[ToastyToast]

oh, what a convenient random ISO!

I wasn't sure about my Seraphim read, I was much more confident with my GreyICE read. How was I to know he would be confirmed town?

The fact is that GreyICE got put to L-1 for being scummy, and he LATER became confirmed town. I still don't like him, but I've backed off.

@Reckoner: what makes Jahudo obvtown? If we are to assume you haven't read, then you can't really say that based on HiS OWN POST

@Jahudo: why the switch from UT/reckoner to CES? Has reckoner said anything to change your mind?

@GreyICE: which can just be a coincidence

[Rhinox]

Toasty could be a good lynch because there was stuff there concerning toasty on D1 and D2, while Vi-scum pretty much ignored toasty for the most part. Yourself, Myself, and CES were the only 3 not voting Vi-scum. I'd say there's a good chance that either you or CES could be the "non-bussing scum partner"(TM).

Edit-in: yeah, looking through vi's iso, when Vi voted toasty, it was really without teeth. The vote was there for a few posts while vi conversed and investigated others, but there was no following up on or questioning toasty. Then vi just moved on. That... is actually actually a pretty big vi-scum tell I should have caught (not being aggressive in pursuing suspects). But that would fit as a distancing opportunity with a scum partner (toasty) as well. Later on towards the end (see vi's iso 61 and 62) vi makes comments that seem like toasty is no longer a suspect at all. They also seem somewhat like coaching, but I guess thats not really relevant since we don't know if scum have daytalk or not.

GreyICE, LLD, Toasty, AntiTown, Kdub, Jahudo: all on the vi lynch train.

greyICE aparently obv town. Jahudo prob town. {LLD, Toasty, Antitown, Kdub} "Bussing scum partner"(TM) in here. If its not toasty, then its Antitown, Kdub, LLD in that order.


Toasty was all to happy to vote greyICE in support of my apparently horribad theory of greyICE scum yesterday. Then quick unvote. Then toasty's vi vote, looks sort of like bussing due to here I isod and picked out a couple points and vote but oh hey if vi really is a miller then its open season on jahudo vagueness I don't really understand.

Antitown is a hydra yet is somehow managing to lurk quite a bit. Early suspicions on Vi, then Vi was moved to an outlook brightening list. Next mention of vi was a vote that looks out of place in iso 19. Like, "big post having nothing to do with vi", followed by a vi vote. Still suspicious of jahudo though and even started or commented on the GF theory. D2 would have to be pure Vi bussing though, he wasn't interested at all in greyICE or Jahudo as scum, the honerable mentions from D2.

Kdub - only responded to Vi's questioning. Never gave any opinion on Vi until iso27, when he refers to Vi as a suspect. Only peculiar thing about D2 was that he started voting Vi to follow grey, then unvoted to hear what I had to say regarding greyscum, then revoted Vi when my case wasn't solid enough. Others had already dismissed my theory by that point, so it could have been scum waiting too see if my idea would stick.

I have a townread on LLD but I'm not putting as much weight on it as I usually do my town reads because almost all my town reads in recent games were actually scum. But LLD is still last suspect on the list.


I suppose I should do the non-bussing scums too.

UT/Reck: UT seemed town to me while he was here all the way up to his last post where he overexplained why he didn't have a read on vi. Thats kinda scummy, seeing how vi is scum and all. Not to thrilled about reck's entrance into the game.

CES: no fucking clue. All over the place, very little explained. I recall vi commenting something like "I C wat ur dew eeng thar CES" as justification for ignoring him but I'm not too sure what that means as far as CES's alignment. Quick easy iso read though. Would like to hear more. Probably not going to get it.


I think Toasty/Reck could be a fine final 2 scum.

Vote: Reck

Upon super preview edit (yeah I take hours making my posts so what ) maybe toasty/reck doesn't seem likely afterall but I think my vote is in the right place.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Reck's idea is that attacking townies is a scum tell, Toasty. Which is true. GreyICE being legitimately scummy looking does help negate that.

[Rhinox]

edit: I was originally responding to reck#1080 when I made that post so the "you" in the first paragraph should refer to reck

[GreyICE]

I'm still not sure why I'm so scummy looking day 1.

I didn't like Seraphim, but then realized that there were none of the connections to him that I wanted to see in a scum candidate. So he was scummy, but he wasn't scum (look, he flipped scum-like... but not scum). I pushed Vi pretty hard in the early game. Scum. We still haven't seen toasty flip.

Even if I fucked up with Toasty, I ain't gonna put this down as one of my bad games.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, Rhinox <3

[Rhinox]

P.S. Someone please explain to me why jahudo is scum.

First it was, claiming miller to CC Vi was scummy because he was seraphs scum partner trying to divert the lynch. Now that we know that he was not serpaphs scum partner and vi was in fact scum, why does it make sense for jahudo scum to CC vi to divert the lynch away from a non-scum lynch (seraph) and onto a scum partner lynch (Vi)?

[xRECKONERx]

inb4WIFOM

[Rhinox]

I'm still not sure why I'm so scummy looking day 1.

I didn't like Seraphim, but then realized that there were none of the connections to him that I wanted to see in a scum candidate. So he was scummy, but he wasn't scum (look, he flipped scum-like... but not scum). I pushed Vi pretty hard in the early game. Scum. We still haven't seen toasty flip.

Even if I fucked up with Toasty, I ain't gonna put this down as one of my bad games.

I'm going with lucky moreso than good until you give me a reason to believe otherwise.

[Rhinox]

inb4WIFOM

Hey I didn't start the wifom. You should go read D1 and see how everyone was jumping all over jahudo for being obvscum for diverting the lynch away from obvscum seraph. And then yet after seraph flipped not scum, everyone created a new reason why the same situation makes jahudo obvscum. Its a pretty entertaining read.

[GreyICE]

My problem is the v. interesting timing for all the millers to start spilling out of the woodwork.

Namely, right after I claimed cop. Claiming miller when you're under some level of suspicion is somewhat scummy, and having a SECOND person do it doesn't really make either of them less scummy.

Assume a Toasty, Vi, Jahudo scumteam for a second. Jahudo counterclaims Vi weakly, they put off the issue until day 2, one of the two gets lynched, the other lives as confirmed miller. It damn well beats the bit where between me, Nacho, and LLD we finger the entire scumteam on day 1. And they definitely could be playing the 'setup speculation see how many days we can put this off then one of us is confirmed town' crap. For someone who voted seraphim to get vigged to settle the 'two miller' business, he wasn't in love with lynching Vi on day 2.

Nacho shot makes NO BLEEDING SENSE with anything other than Jahudo scum. Unless it's Antihero who wanted to push the 'both are scum and it's a plan' theory.

Though now that I'm reading that, this assumes Toasty scum and/or that Antihero even found the fucking QT last night, which given his general activity level might be a bit much.

Fate: Prod Antihero and Katsuki. Preferably with something sharp and painful. And if it hasn't been long enough since day start do it anyway.

@Rhinox: I have most of my games on my Wiki.